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No, you really can't.
Sidenote, it seems like he deliberately went after people with immigration backgrounds. For example, the rooftop encounter: he actually (at least that's what it seems like) didn't shoot at the Baggerfahrer, but at the guy who was filming. And that guy was a Muslim. The impacts were at his balcony (one story lower and two apartments apart), and his father was actually injured by shrapnel.
So, in a sense, multiculturalism and integration seems to actually have worked, he was pretty much as german as it gets. Kinda ironic.
He also visited and took pictures in Winneden, which is where iirc the biggest school massacre in germanies history went down - and he had Breiviks Manifesto on his PC.
The gun seems to be a weapon that was used in theatres, basically a disabled weapon that was re-enabled, and had the serial number filed out. It seems to be of slovakian origin, according to police, considering there's a slovakian "seal of approval" on it. He ordered it in the Darknet.
Three people still in critical, life threatening condition.
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I live in Munich city center - the amount of panic and misinformation was insane. Respect to the authorities for contaminating the shooting site and dealing with all the panic - they probably had to triple their efforts cause of all paranoid people on the streets.
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On July 24 2016 09:15 m4ini wrote:
Not sure if it was posted, the angry balcony guy was interviewed.
Keyfacts: he's an excavator operator (i'm not sure if non-germans grasp how funny it is, considering that there's a stereotype for these), 57 years old, was just having his good evening beer after work on the balcony when he saw that "Vollpfosten" (dumbass, but funnier). "I even threw my beerbottle at him, but it fell short - there, you can see the shards still.".
I mean.. It takes balls to throw your beer at someone with a gun, while furiously insulting him. And, as a german, that he's a Baggerfahrer (excavatordriver), makes it even funnier. Just curious as a non-german, could you tell me why it is funny that the balcony guy is a Baggerfahrer (excavatordriver)? I tried googling it and could find nothing. If it is inappropriate, you can PM me instead. Thanks.
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On July 24 2016 21:23 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2016 09:15 m4ini wrote:
Not sure if it was posted, the angry balcony guy was interviewed.
Keyfacts: he's an excavator operator (i'm not sure if non-germans grasp how funny it is, considering that there's a stereotype for these), 57 years old, was just having his good evening beer after work on the balcony when he saw that "Vollpfosten" (dumbass, but funnier). "I even threw my beerbottle at him, but it fell short - there, you can see the shards still.".
I mean.. It takes balls to throw your beer at someone with a gun, while furiously insulting him. And, as a german, that he's a Baggerfahrer (excavatordriver), makes it even funnier. Just curious as a non-german, could you tell me why it is funny that the balcony guy is a Baggerfahrer (excavatordriver)? I tried googling it and could find nothing. If it is inappropriate, you can PM me instead. Thanks.
I guess the best way to explain it is that it's like a 40 year old meme/stereotype. He's made it up one or two steps from manual laborer on a construction site and he's had plenty of time sitting in his 'bagger' to contemplate life.
edit: picture/video of the guy here: http://www.welt.de/politik/article157245606/Zeuge-wollte-Amoklaeufer-mit-Bierflasche-stoppen.html
He was sitting on his balcony (which has a green 'lawn' carpet, and a plastic crow), in a singlet, and has a beer belly and tattoos.
Basically the local variant of a old redneck got into a shouting match with the shooter and was hurling insults.
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CNN are also pushing this angle, real silly stuff.
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On July 24 2016 23:02 Dan HH wrote:CNN are also pushing this angle, real silly stuff.
Given that nobody can blame it on religion this time people are again on the hunt to figure out the next group to blame and it apparently is games again. Seems to be a reoccurring theme that nobody apparently can't rest before we've found and named some guilty party.
Especially digging up the guy's private life like this is awful because in the past it has tended to spawn copycat killers.
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It's just more public attacks than Germany is used to recently I'd imagine, so of course they're going to be angry and looking for something. Video games is definitely the silliest reason. If anything, I'd imagine they curb male violence by giving them something to waste time on and not think about too much in life. Something to enjoy and pour their energy into.
You have the Afghani asylum axe attacker 6 or so days ago on the train wounding 20 people with images of blood all over the passenger car.
You have the angry bullied shooter.
And today you have the this hacky mchackerson with a machete or some sharp object at least outside of a kebab shop.
He's already caught - 1 dead 2 wounded
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 25 2016 01:23 SK.Testie wrote:It's just more public attacks than Germany is used to recently I'd imagine, so of course they're going to be angry and looking for something. Video games is definitely the silliest reason. If anything, I'd imagine they curb male violence by giving them something to waste time on and not think about too much in life. Something to enjoy and pour their energy into. You have the Afghani asylum axe attacker 6 or so days ago on the train wounding 20 people with images of blood all over the passenger car. You have the angry bullied shooter. And today you have the this hacky mchackerson with a machete or some sharp object at least outside of a kebab shop. He's already caught - 1 dead 2 wounded+ Show Spoiler +
According to reports, this guy was known to police already, and is a Syrian refugee.
Edit: Dead women was pregnant.
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That's the result of Merkel's refugee policy. "People are escaping from war" is a silly argument when you don't do any background check on refugees. What if terrorists pretend to be refugees? Have you ever heard of trojan horse? Left-wing believers should explain that to victims if they keep supporting refugees.
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On July 24 2016 22:42 Rimstalker wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2016 21:23 Dangermousecatdog wrote:On July 24 2016 09:15 m4ini wrote:
Not sure if it was posted, the angry balcony guy was interviewed.
Keyfacts: he's an excavator operator (i'm not sure if non-germans grasp how funny it is, considering that there's a stereotype for these), 57 years old, was just having his good evening beer after work on the balcony when he saw that "Vollpfosten" (dumbass, but funnier). "I even threw my beerbottle at him, but it fell short - there, you can see the shards still.".
I mean.. It takes balls to throw your beer at someone with a gun, while furiously insulting him. And, as a german, that he's a Baggerfahrer (excavatordriver), makes it even funnier. Just curious as a non-german, could you tell me why it is funny that the balcony guy is a Baggerfahrer (excavatordriver)? I tried googling it and could find nothing. If it is inappropriate, you can PM me instead. Thanks. I guess the best way to explain it is that it's like a 40 year old meme/stereotype. He's made it up one or two steps from manual laborer on a construction site and he's had plenty of time sitting in his 'bagger' to contemplate life. edit: picture/video of the guy here: http://www.welt.de/politik/article157245606/Zeuge-wollte-Amoklaeufer-mit-Bierflasche-stoppen.htmlHe was sitting on his balcony (which has a green 'lawn' carpet, and a plastic crow), in a singlet, and has a beer belly and tattoos. Basically the local variant of a old redneck got into a shouting match with the shooter and was hurling insults.
Pretty much this. Not to mention the song "Bodo mit dem Bagger" (Bodo with the Excavator), from thousands of years back.
It's.. A bit like the german stereotype of "Mantafahrer" (Manta driver, or Vauxhall Cavalier Mk1 in the UK). Google "Mantafahrer", you'll see what i mean @Dangercatmousedog (or similar).
edit:
Only just now heard of the recent attack in Reutlingen.. I wonder at what point we realize that it's ridiculous that you have a syrian refugee who's already known to police and still is allowed to roam free and stay in germany. If you can't even get by for a year or so without getting into trouble with the police, get the fuck out. No "ah, he's new here, things are different, he will learn in time".
Merkels little cardhouse won't last long at the speed things are unfolding now, with two attacks by refugees in a single week. Especially considering that one of them blatantly wasn't what he said he was, and nobody gave a shit.
You have the Afghani asylum axe attacker 6 or so days ago on the train wounding 20 people with images of blood all over the passenger car.
Fun fact, he was most likely not Afghani. He did what i was critizising right from the beginning when the crisis started (-> european politics thread): false identity. He's most likely Pakistani: he just said that he's afghan to increase chances of asylum, since Pakistanis are unlikely to get it.
edit2: the Reutlingen attack was stopped by a "bystander", who hit him with his car on purpose, police confirmed.
Makes you wonder how it would've looked otherwise.
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A+ work for BMW driver.
But it's all fucked up. =[
She was pregnant.
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On July 25 2016 01:05 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2016 23:02 Dan HH wrote:CNN are also pushing this angle, real silly stuff. Given that nobody can blame it on religion this time people are again on the hunt to figure out the next group to blame and it apparently is games again. Seems to be a reoccurring theme that nobody apparently can't rest before we've found and named some guilty party. Especially digging up the guy's private life like this is awful because in the past it has tended to spawn copycat killers.
Well, even before religion they usually try to blame the gun itself. Perhaps that this gun does not look scary has muted this narrative.
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On July 25 2016 05:28 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2016 01:05 Nyxisto wrote:On July 24 2016 23:02 Dan HH wrote:CNN are also pushing this angle, real silly stuff. Given that nobody can blame it on religion this time people are again on the hunt to figure out the next group to blame and it apparently is games again. Seems to be a reoccurring theme that nobody apparently can't rest before we've found and named some guilty party. Especially digging up the guy's private life like this is awful because in the past it has tended to spawn copycat killers. Well, even before religion they usually try to blame the gun itself. Perhaps that this gun does not look scary has muted this narrative.
You have political careers built on telling people that they should be safer than they are now, which is basically a superstition. If your answer is shit happens, you can't use that. If your answer is things have to change, you can. It's a well that won't dry, cause every time someone dies you can demonstrate that safety hasn't been reached and you're still needed; and it's pretty hard to run out stuff you can change.
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On July 25 2016 05:36 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2016 05:28 cLutZ wrote:On July 25 2016 01:05 Nyxisto wrote:On July 24 2016 23:02 Dan HH wrote:CNN are also pushing this angle, real silly stuff. Given that nobody can blame it on religion this time people are again on the hunt to figure out the next group to blame and it apparently is games again. Seems to be a reoccurring theme that nobody apparently can't rest before we've found and named some guilty party. Especially digging up the guy's private life like this is awful because in the past it has tended to spawn copycat killers. Well, even before religion they usually try to blame the gun itself. Perhaps that this gun does not look scary has muted this narrative. You have political careers built on telling people that they should be safer than they are now, which is basically a superstition. If your answer is shit happens, you can't use that. If your answer is things have to change, you can. It's a well that won't dry, cause every time someone dies you can demonstrate that safety hasn't been reached and you're still needed; and it's pretty hard to run out stuff you can change.
Its worse than this. The careers are built on giving us the answer to the problem - but the solution doesn't exist. When the only answer is blaming a bunch of people, or a video game, there is no solution to that. Convenient, because the politicians don't actually have to do anything. If you start asking pesky questions like "What do we actually do about this - can we improve our society to the point where the risk of this is acknowledged and minimized?" You then get no answers because that kind of thing is expensive and takes a long time ie there is a net loss in political capital for those responsible.
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On July 25 2016 06:02 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2016 05:36 Nebuchad wrote:On July 25 2016 05:28 cLutZ wrote:On July 25 2016 01:05 Nyxisto wrote:On July 24 2016 23:02 Dan HH wrote:CNN are also pushing this angle, real silly stuff. Given that nobody can blame it on religion this time people are again on the hunt to figure out the next group to blame and it apparently is games again. Seems to be a reoccurring theme that nobody apparently can't rest before we've found and named some guilty party. Especially digging up the guy's private life like this is awful because in the past it has tended to spawn copycat killers. Well, even before religion they usually try to blame the gun itself. Perhaps that this gun does not look scary has muted this narrative. You have political careers built on telling people that they should be safer than they are now, which is basically a superstition. If your answer is shit happens, you can't use that. If your answer is things have to change, you can. It's a well that won't dry, cause every time someone dies you can demonstrate that safety hasn't been reached and you're still needed; and it's pretty hard to run out stuff you can change. Its worse than this. The careers are built on giving us the answer to the problem - but the solution doesn't exist. When the only answer is blaming a bunch of people, or a video game, there is no solution to that. Convenient, because the politicians don't actually have to do anything. If you start asking pesky questions like "What do we actually do about this - can we improve our society to the point where the risk of this is acknowledged and minimized?" You then get no answers because that kind of thing is expensive and takes a long time ie there is a net loss in political capital for those responsible.
So what's the solution? You're not responsible politically I guess.
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On July 25 2016 06:14 Shield wrote:Show nested quote +On July 25 2016 06:02 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 25 2016 05:36 Nebuchad wrote:On July 25 2016 05:28 cLutZ wrote:On July 25 2016 01:05 Nyxisto wrote:On July 24 2016 23:02 Dan HH wrote:CNN are also pushing this angle, real silly stuff. Given that nobody can blame it on religion this time people are again on the hunt to figure out the next group to blame and it apparently is games again. Seems to be a reoccurring theme that nobody apparently can't rest before we've found and named some guilty party. Especially digging up the guy's private life like this is awful because in the past it has tended to spawn copycat killers. Well, even before religion they usually try to blame the gun itself. Perhaps that this gun does not look scary has muted this narrative. You have political careers built on telling people that they should be safer than they are now, which is basically a superstition. If your answer is shit happens, you can't use that. If your answer is things have to change, you can. It's a well that won't dry, cause every time someone dies you can demonstrate that safety hasn't been reached and you're still needed; and it's pretty hard to run out stuff you can change. Its worse than this. The careers are built on giving us the answer to the problem - but the solution doesn't exist. When the only answer is blaming a bunch of people, or a video game, there is no solution to that. Convenient, because the politicians don't actually have to do anything. If you start asking pesky questions like "What do we actually do about this - can we improve our society to the point where the risk of this is acknowledged and minimized?" You then get no answers because that kind of thing is expensive and takes a long time ie there is a net loss in political capital for those responsible. So what's the solution? You're not responsible politically I guess.
I don't claim to have all the answers, I just think a conversation should be taking place that doesn't simply involve lumping all the blame on immigrants/video games etc.
If this was a mental health problem the situation could be helped by better education and mental health awareness/systems as discussed on the last few pages. Obviously this isn't a solution because there is no single solution.
The point i'm making is that we very rarely hear that we all bear at least a portion of responsibility for making a society where the risk of this kind of thing is minimized. You can't stop people suddenly losing it but there's almost certainly measures you can take to make it less likely/frequent.
Better gun control is another idea but its quite ideological in some countries so I guess that varies from place to place in its feasibility.
Taking lots of small steps to improve things long term would be the best way IMO, but you never hear that conversation, or if you do its drowned out by the constant banging of heads on the wall of immigration/extreme right/left wing dogma.
Put it this way:
A jihadist blows up a building full of people. What happens? Everyone demands that their government sort out the terrorist problem immediately.
A kid with mental health problems shoots all of his friends. Do you ever see the instant reaction that we need to sort out the current mental health crisis that is occurring throughout the Western world? No. People usually just twist it into another way of demanding that a government punishes this group or that group.
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The answer is, basically, prosperity + social cohesion, and most government actions can only have negative influences on both. Sure you can tinker at the edges with things like policing, but mostly safety boils down to having a bunch of relatively well off people in an area who all basically agree on all the major questions of society.
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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-blast-idUSKCN1040Y7
Seems to be an explosion in Germany now
"The explosion in downtown Ansbach was not a gas explosion, but was caused by an explosive device”, Ansbach Mayor Carda Seidel said at a press conference. Apparently, the explosion was detonated in or in front of “Eugene’s Weinstube”
At least one killed - 9-13 injured.
Conflicting reports atm. Was said to be a gas explosion initially but reports from the mayor are saying it was a device.
With all the attacks these days might as well just start a big terrorism thread. "If you're seeing this thread another attack has gone off on European soil and people disagree on what to do."
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EPT![[image loading]](http://puu.sh/qcONG/be7950a3ee.jpg)
