Gunfire rang out at a shopping mall in the German city of Munich on Friday evening, leaving several people dead and others wounded, CNN affiliate NTV reported.
The shooting, which started at about 6 p.m. local time at the Olympia shopping mall, is over, police spokeswoman Claudia Kvenzel said. Kvenzel had no immediate information about casualties or what led to the shooting.
Several dead and injured. lots of conflicting information circulating, reporting between 3 and 11 casualties. Public transportation system shut down completely. Perpetrators (witnessess report three armed men) still on the run. Police does not know their current location. Public asked to stay inside.
update : The Perpetrator has been found dead. After killing 9 people, with 3 still critically injured, he shot himself while on the run. Perpetrator is an 18 year old Iranian-German, who acted alone. All reports of several men or shootings have been false alarms. Public traffic is running again. The video of the perpetrator arguing with another man suggests a killing spree by a deranged individual rather than a terrorist attack, although no motive has been confirmed as of yet.
Yes, most probably no second shooting. There are 2-3 possible perpetrators. The police has no clue where they are. Public transport stopped, some streets closed off. Stay @home people!
I live 2-3km from there, I could hear a lot of sirens.
On July 23 2016 03:16 Mafe wrote: Are you aware that sharing such videos is probably what the attackers were hoping for?
Well, now I've seen it on tv aswell. Don't take it too personal.
Mafe, if you think what you just saw now is bad, don't even look at Twitter. I think every other tweet is showing footage/victims. (edit: not that it excuses, but social media seems to become a mess when these types of events first break out)
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
What I find astonishing just looking through Twitter are the vollidioten who are posting pictures of police in various locations trying to lock the area down.
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
Yeah, maybe hold off advocating for draconian measures until people know what happened. Rash decisions are rarely good decisions or helpful.
On July 23 2016 03:26 Half the Sky wrote: What I find astonishing just looking through Twitter are the vollidioten who are posting pictures of police in various locations trying to lock the area down.
I don't even...
People will never learn that. Literally. It happens in the US, it happens in germany.
Not just this time, but already in 1982 (olympia attack), where TV streamed live how police got into positions. It's so ridiculously retarded, yet it constantly, i'd actually say every single time, it happens.
There are reports of one of the Suspects screaming "Scheiß Ausländer" meaning "Fucking Foreigners".
This information is from Live TV @n24.de and is not confirmed.
I assume they refer to the video with the shooter on the parking lot roof. There's someone shouting "scheiss kanacke" (something like fucking foreigner, just that kanacke is a derogatory term for "brown people"), but not the suspect, but the ballsy dude on the balcony shouting at him.
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
Yeah, maybe hold off advocating for draconian measures until people know what happened. Rash decisions are rarely good decisions or helpful.
This is Germany. We will be sad for a few days and then say it was our own fault and we are guilty for everything blabla. If (there is still a BIG if) these are Islamic terrorists and they came as refugees it will change german politics drasticly
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
They will just use knives or a car. Weirdly, house to house searches are a really inefficient way to stop people doing bad things.
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Considering that one of the shooters stated "i'm german, i was born in germany" (something an islamic terrorist wouldn't say, ever, i assume) and the fact that today exactly five years ago Breivik went rampage..
I'd be careful with assumptions for now. Even though, admittedly, my first guess was "the next ISIS attack in germany" as well.
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
Yes and no. First because I'm pretty sure that even if we'd have terror attack every day, the government who'd chose to search people's homes like that would get instant revolt from its own people. Secondly because as the Nice attack showed us, one can do much more damage with a truck than with a gun. The solution is not to be found with what people do, it's to be found in why people do it. Which leads us to, broadly, two possible, though not mutually exclusive, paths of action : (1) destroy "why people do it" (which covers a wide range of possible policies : Internet policing, "legal Stasi" secret services, total warfare and complete occupation on any country suspected of financing terrorism, systematic imprisonement of anyone suspected of having factors increasing the risk of them becoming terrorists, etc) and (2) understand "why people do it" and accept it (which also covers a wide range of possible policies : immediate stop to any Euro-American military presence and actions in the Middle-East, recognition of the IS, etc).
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
I do have something to hide. My fucking privacy. But yeah, you are being pretty dumb for not waiting to make the "i told you he was an islamist" dance.
On July 23 2016 03:44 Makro wrote: the right wing is gonna rise in europe in a very short period of time
Extremism breeds extremism. Something that's happening since long ago, sadly people don't understand it.
Germany and the EU has been one of the most open countries and organizations in the history of humanity. What did it bring us? USA is a source of extremism and they dont get shit like this.
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
I do have something to hide. My fucking privacy. But yeah, you are being pretty dumb for not waiting to make the "i told you he was an islamist" dance.
Privacy? lol, be honst and you dont need to fear anything What do I care about his skin color or religion? I want weapons gone
On July 23 2016 03:44 Makro wrote: the right wing is gonna rise in europe in a very short period of time
Extremism breeds extremism. Something that's happening since long ago, sadly people don't understand it.
Germany and the EU has been one of the most open countries and organizations in the history of humanity. What did it bring us? USA is a source of extremism and they dont get shit like this.
On July 23 2016 03:44 Makro wrote: the right wing is gonna rise in europe in a very short period of time
Extremism breeds extremism. Something that's happening since long ago, sadly people don't understand it.
Germany and the EU has been one of the most open countries and organizations in the history of humanity. What did it bring us? USA is a source of extremism and they dont get shit like this.
What? There is no terrorism in the US? Please, stay real guys.
Even Russia, China or Saudi fucking Arabia is hit by islamic terrorists.
On July 23 2016 03:47 m4ini wrote: Considering that one of the shooters stated "i'm german, i was born in germany" (something an islamic terrorist wouldn't say, ever, i assume) and the fact that today exactly five years ago Breivik went rampage..
I'd be careful with assumptions for now. Even though, admittedly, my first guess was "the next ISIS attack in germany" as well.
Actually thats something germans dont say normally.
Germans say: I am German and Immigrants: I was born in Germany
I'm usually the first one to hop on Islam. But this one doesn't seem to be directly related to Islam unless it's a man pissed at taking refugees or something to that effect.
With the attacks on Nice, we had journalists in the crowd of people getting run over and reports of a man shouting Allahu Akbar came from everywhere so we knew immediately which is why it was ok to jump to conclusions.
In this case, angry / evil / mentally disturbed white guy. Take your pick.
You know what country does not have terrorism in the last few years? Japan Do you know why? Because they are full of extremists and close off their borders.
On July 23 2016 03:44 Makro wrote: the right wing is gonna rise in europe in a very short period of time
Extremism breeds extremism. Something that's happening since long ago, sadly people don't understand it.
Germany and the EU has been one of the most open countries and organizations in the history of humanity. What did it bring us? USA is a source of extremism and they dont get shit like this.
They do get shit like this...
I guess all those people didn't get shot in Florida after all.
Bild Online are reporting that one gunman has shot himself -- injuries unknown at present. Remain indoors.
wait...SHOT HIMSELF? It confirms his not muslim then. Why would terrorist ever shot himself? It looks more like some freak that gone postal.
Why would it confirm that? Muslim terrorists commiting suicide during/after the act isn't exctly rare. As for a freak gone postal, there are 3 suspects, not just 1. Until one of them is apprehended or killed we can't know much, only speculate on the who and why.
On July 23 2016 03:55 sharkie wrote: You know what country does not have terrorism in the last few years? Japan Do you know why? Because they are full of extremists and close off their borders.
On July 23 2016 03:44 Makro wrote: the right wing is gonna rise in europe in a very short period of time
Extremism breeds extremism. Something that's happening since long ago, sadly people don't understand it.
Germany and the EU has been one of the most open countries and organizations in the history of humanity. What did it bring us? USA is a source of extremism and they dont get shit like this.
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
I do have something to hide. My fucking privacy. But yeah, you are being pretty dumb for not waiting to make the "i told you he was an islamist" dance.
Privacy? lol, be honst and you dont need to fear anything What do I care about his skin color or religion? I want weapons gone
Dude... stop swinging different arguments whenever you want
So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
This is what i was speaking about. Now you are speaking about doing a full country wide home inspection, which is as retarded as you can get.
On July 23 2016 03:47 m4ini wrote: Considering that one of the shooters stated "i'm german, i was born in germany" (something an islamic terrorist wouldn't say, ever, i assume) and the fact that today exactly five years ago Breivik went rampage..
I'd be careful with assumptions for now. Even though, admittedly, my first guess was "the next ISIS attack in germany" as well.
Actually thats something germans dont say normally.
Germans say: I am German and Immigrants: I was born in Germany
Well he said both, so not sure what you're trying to say.
On July 23 2016 03:44 Makro wrote: the right wing is gonna rise in europe in a very short period of time
Extremism breeds extremism. Something that's happening since long ago, sadly people don't understand it.
And extremism is born out of ? Extremism is a response to a reality, not facing this reality democratically is what permit extremism to rise.
Extremism is born out of people getting excited about what differenciate them from other people, instead of getting excited about what makes them similar to other people. And it's a response to a way to see reality, not to reality as something intangible and identical to all.
On July 23 2016 03:55 sharkie wrote: You know what country does not have terrorism in the last few years? Japan Do you know why? Because they are full of extremists and close off their borders.
On July 23 2016 03:47 m4ini wrote: Considering that one of the shooters stated "i'm german, i was born in germany" (something an islamic terrorist wouldn't say, ever, i assume) and the fact that today exactly five years ago Breivik went rampage..
I'd be careful with assumptions for now. Even though, admittedly, my first guess was "the next ISIS attack in germany" as well.
Actually thats something germans dont say normally.
Germans say: I am German and Immigrants: I was born in Germany
Well he said both, so not sure what you're trying to say.
Since you do not seem to understand how arguments work: My sentence means yours is bullshit.
Bild Online are reporting that one gunman has shot himself -- injuries unknown at present. Remain indoors.
wait...SHOT HIMSELF? It confirms his not muslim then. Why would terrorist ever shot himself? It looks more like some freak that gone postal.
Why would it confirm that? Muslim terrorists commiting suicide during/after the act isn't exctly rare. As for a freak gone postal, there are 3 suspects, not just 1. Until one of them is apprehended or killed we can't know much, only speculate on the who and why.
It actually is, if you look closer.
I couldn't recall a single islamic terrorist who shot himself. Yes, they blow themselves up. To kill more. That's where the term suicide bombers comes from - but rarely, if ever, do they shoot themselves in the head.
Since you do not seem to understand how arguments work: My sentence means yours is bullshit.
It actually doesn't. You're only confirming what i'm saying. Who gives a shit if he's an immigrant. He's not an islamic terrorist, that's the point. You're apparently not able to grasp it. Because if he was, he wouldn't say either.
On July 23 2016 03:55 sharkie wrote: You know what country does not have terrorism in the last few years? Japan Do you know why? Because they are full of extremists and close off their borders.
asian countries are usually like that, but japan has the advantage of being extremely hard to reach (geographically speaking)
On July 23 2016 03:47 m4ini wrote: Considering that one of the shooters stated "i'm german, i was born in germany" (something an islamic terrorist wouldn't say, ever, i assume) and the fact that today exactly five years ago Breivik went rampage..
I'd be careful with assumptions for now. Even though, admittedly, my first guess was "the next ISIS attack in germany" as well.
We can't conclude anything about one of the shooter's identities just because he said so, crazy people could say anything. The Aurora shooter said he was the Joker.
Why are people speaking about him shotting himself ? All i am listening to says they are still trying to find them, and there were 3 armed persons. We don't really know their identity or motives yet, and yeah this goes both ways.
Bild Online are reporting that one gunman has shot himself -- injuries unknown at present. Remain indoors.
wait...SHOT HIMSELF? It confirms his not muslim then. Why would terrorist ever shot himself? It looks more like some freak that gone postal.
Why would it confirm that? Muslim terrorists commiting suicide during/after the act isn't exctly rare. As for a freak gone postal, there are 3 suspects, not just 1. Until one of them is apprehended or killed we can't know much, only speculate on the who and why.
It actually is, if you look closer.
I couldn't recall a single islamic terrorist who shot himself. Yes, they blow themselves up. To kill more. That's where the term suicide bombers comes from - but rarely, if ever, do they shoot themselves in the head.
Since you do not seem to understand how arguments work: My sentence means yours is bullshit.
It actually doesn't. You're only confirming what i'm saying. Who gives a shit if he's an immigrant. He's not an islamic terrorist, that's the point. You're apparently not able to grasp it. Because if he was, he wouldn't say either.
Germany has an incredible large muslim immigrant population that are born in Germany? Why wouldnt an islamic terrorist say hes German? They dont give up their nation. They even name themself al-almani. A few thousand of them went to fight in Syria.
I am so glad I left Germany for good. People like you will never see reason.
Bild Online are reporting that one gunman has shot himself -- injuries unknown at present. Remain indoors.
wait...SHOT HIMSELF? It confirms his not muslim then. Why would terrorist ever shot himself? It looks more like some freak that gone postal.
Why would it confirm that? Muslim terrorists commiting suicide during/after the act isn't exctly rare. As for a freak gone postal, there are 3 suspects, not just 1. Until one of them is apprehended or killed we can't know much, only speculate on the who and why.
It actually is, if you look closer.
I couldn't recall a single islamic terrorist who shot himself. Yes, they blow themselves up. To kill more. That's where the term suicide bombers comes from - but rarely, if ever, do they shoot themselves in the head.
Since you do not seem to understand how arguments work: My sentence means yours is bullshit.
It actually doesn't. You're only confirming what i'm saying. Who gives a shit if he's an immigrant. He's not an islamic terrorist, that's the point. You're apparently not able to grasp it. Because if he was, he wouldn't say either.
Germany has an incredible large muslim immigrant population that are born in Germany? Why wouldnt an islamic terrorist say hes German? They dont give up their nation. They even name themself al-almani. A few thousand of them went to fight in Syria.
I am so glad I left Germany for good. People like you will never see reason.
I will never see reason? Because i'm saying it's too early to call this islamic terrorism? I don't think you're in the position to call anyone unreasonable.
Bild Online are reporting that one gunman has shot himself -- injuries unknown at present. Remain indoors.
wait...SHOT HIMSELF? It confirms his not muslim then. Why would terrorist ever shot himself? It looks more like some freak that gone postal.
Why would it confirm that? Muslim terrorists commiting suicide during/after the act isn't exctly rare. As for a freak gone postal, there are 3 suspects, not just 1. Until one of them is apprehended or killed we can't know much, only speculate on the who and why.
It actually is, if you look closer.
I couldn't recall a single islamic terrorist who shot himself. Yes, they blow themselves up. To kill more. That's where the term suicide bombers comes from - but rarely, if ever, do they shoot themselves in the head.
Since you do not seem to understand how arguments work: My sentence means yours is bullshit.
It actually doesn't. You're only confirming what i'm saying. Who gives a shit if he's an immigrant. He's not an islamic terrorist, that's the point. You're apparently not able to grasp it. Because if he was, he wouldn't say either.
Germany has an incredible large muslim immigrant population that are born in Germany? Why wouldnt an islamic terrorist say hes German? They dont give up their nation. They even name themself al-almani. A few thousand of them went to fight in Syria.
I am so glad I left Germany for good. People like you will never see reason.
You left Germany for which country, if it is not indiscreet ?
On July 23 2016 03:55 sharkie wrote: You know what country does not have terrorism in the last few years? Japan Do you know why? Because they are full of extremists and close off their borders.
Japan's economy is a house of cards though.
Not more than europe.
Japan's economy, for a bunch of reasons, has more long term challenges than Europe's. Closing borders is hardly a good solution when the birth rate is lower than 2 in most of the West, and it's even worse in Japan. And sure they don't have much terrorism but the rate of growth of their population is declining a lot faster than terrorists could make Europe's population growth decline :p.
Anyway Japan is already homogenous so that simplifies things. Closing borders in already multicultural places wouldn't really help much, IMO. Not that you were arguing for closing borders, I'm just saying.
On July 23 2016 03:55 sharkie wrote: You know what country does not have terrorism in the last few years? Japan Do you know why? Because they are full of extremists and close off their borders.
Japan's economy is a house of cards though.
Not more than europe.
Japan's economy, for a bunch of reasons, has more long term challenges than Europe's. Closing borders is hardly a good solution when the birth rate is lower than 2 in most of the West, and it's even worse in Japan. And sure they don't have much terrorism but their population is declining a lot faster than terrorists could make Europe's population decline :p.
Anyway Japan is already homogenous so that simplifies things. Closing borders in already multicultural places wouldn't really help much, IMO. Not that you were arguing for closing borders, I'm just saying.
Just give incentives for the population to produce. Admit that you need people to reproduce and give them more benefits and tax cuts. Population decline should be a thing people on the left love, less people = less planet rape = better for the environment.
On July 23 2016 03:47 m4ini wrote: Considering that one of the shooters stated "i'm german, i was born in germany" (something an islamic terrorist wouldn't say, ever, i assume) and the fact that today exactly five years ago Breivik went rampage..
I'd be careful with assumptions for now. Even though, admittedly, my first guess was "the next ISIS attack in germany" as well.
Actually thats something germans dont say normally.
Germans say: I am German and Immigrants: I was born in Germany
Can confirm. I get asked where I am from on a daily basis, because I have an indian name, however I was born and raised in Germany. It's simply my dad being from India, while mom's german. "I was born in Germany" is what I pretty much always reply with.
As far as the shootings go, I just hope the best for the situation with as minimal damage as still possible. Innocent people getting killed is always a bad thing. However if one of the attackers really screamed "fucking foreigners" this is gonna blow up a huge discussion for politics and media again. I mean, it's Germany after all and we know about this countrys history and how media is going to present it if this is true.
On July 23 2016 03:55 sharkie wrote: You know what country does not have terrorism in the last few years? Japan Do you know why? Because they are full of extremists and close off their borders.
Japan's economy is a house of cards though.
Not more than europe.
Japan's economy, for a bunch of reasons, has more long term challenges than Europe's. Closing borders is hardly a good solution when the birth rate is lower than 2 in most of the West, and it's even worse in Japan. And sure they don't have much terrorism but the rate of growth of their population is declining a lot faster than terrorists could make Europe's population growth decline :p.
Anyway Japan is already homogenous so that simplifies things. Closing borders in already multicultural places wouldn't really help much, IMO. Not that you were arguing for closing borders, I'm just saying.
Japan has a functionning currency; a functionning government. I know full well about Japan, but the living condition back there is not decreasing, they are just stagnating, it's not the same for Greece, or Spain, who are actually in a decline, and the eurozone is stagnating and has been for the past ten years. They are not worse than us economically.
So apparantly, this video shows one of the guys who are responsible for the shootings in Munich. It's quite hard to understand but it's about a bavarian guy yelling from the balcony (?) towards the guy on the roof, who seems to be a german and not someone from middle-east. The bavarian guy is basically insulting the guy on the roof, who claims to be a german and hates people from turkey. And he yells something about buying a weapon.
Some people suspect that this attack is connected to what Anders Breivik did 4 (?) years ago in Norway.
Edit: Apparantly a similar video has already been posted.
On July 23 2016 03:55 sharkie wrote: You know what country does not have terrorism in the last few years? Japan Do you know why? Because they are full of extremists and close off their borders.
Japan's economy is a house of cards though.
Not more than europe.
Japan's economy, for a bunch of reasons, has more long term challenges than Europe's. Closing borders is hardly a good solution when the birth rate is lower than 2 in most of the West, and it's even worse in Japan. And sure they don't have much terrorism but the rate of growth of their population is declining a lot faster than terrorists could make Europe's population growth decline :p.
Anyway Japan is already homogenous so that simplifies things. Closing borders in already multicultural places wouldn't really help much, IMO. Not that you were arguing for closing borders, I'm just saying.
Japan has a functionning currency; a functionning government. I know full well about Japan, but the living condition back there is not decreasing, they are just stagnating, it's not the same for Greece, or Spain, who are actually in a decline, and the eurozone is stagnating and has been for the past ten years. They are not worse than us economically.
You don't get it. In Japan the richer don't get really richer anymore. In the EU the richer get a lot richer so we have a "working economy" lol
On July 23 2016 03:55 sharkie wrote: You know what country does not have terrorism in the last few years? Japan Do you know why? Because they are full of extremists and close off their borders.
Japan's economy is a house of cards though.
Not more than europe.
Japan's economy, for a bunch of reasons, has more long term challenges than Europe's. Closing borders is hardly a good solution when the birth rate is lower than 2 in most of the West, and it's even worse in Japan. And sure they don't have much terrorism but their population is declining a lot faster than terrorists could make Europe's population decline :p.
Anyway Japan is already homogenous so that simplifies things. Closing borders in already multicultural places wouldn't really help much, IMO. Not that you were arguing for closing borders, I'm just saying.
Just give incentives for the population to produce. Admit that you need people to reproduce and give them more benefits and tax cuts. Population decline should be a thing people on the left love, less people = less planet rape = better for the environment.
The environment doesn't matter if we're not around :p. Anyway countries do various things to nudge people and get them to make babies, it's just a big decision that's difficult to influence with tax cuts and other shit. What is it, they say have a child costs $200,000 over the cost of 18 years or something? People know that more or less, so a $500 tax cut and a "national love day" that specifically says go out and fuck, it doesn't work that well.
On July 23 2016 03:55 sharkie wrote: You know what country does not have terrorism in the last few years? Japan Do you know why? Because they are full of extremists and close off their borders.
Japan's economy is a house of cards though.
Not more than europe.
Japan's economy, for a bunch of reasons, has more long term challenges than Europe's. Closing borders is hardly a good solution when the birth rate is lower than 2 in most of the West, and it's even worse in Japan. And sure they don't have much terrorism but the rate of growth of their population is declining a lot faster than terrorists could make Europe's population growth decline :p.
Anyway Japan is already homogenous so that simplifies things. Closing borders in already multicultural places wouldn't really help much, IMO. Not that you were arguing for closing borders, I'm just saying.
Japan has a functionning currency; a functionning government. I know full well about Japan, but the living condition back there is not decreasing, they are just stagnating, it's not the same for Greece, or Spain, who are actually in a decline, and the eurozone is stagnating and has been for the past ten years. They are not worse than us economically.
Today it seems that way. I think Europe has the tools to recover, where Japan's situation may get a LOT worse before it gets better. I'm no economist so it's just basically a guess and a mix of things I've heard smarter people say over the years.
Very different things obviously.
That being said the GDP of Japan went from 6T in 2011 to 4T in 2015, it's a drop of 33% in 4 years. Spain dropped hard too, from 1.6T to 1.2T from 2008 to 2015, still a drop of 25% but over 7 years. Greece is in a bad shape though, for sure, going from 350b to 195b from 2008 to 2015, a 43% drop over 7 years. Now those don't tell the whole story and GDP is a deeply flawed indicator but don't underestimate the shit Japan is in.
On July 23 2016 03:55 sharkie wrote: You know what country does not have terrorism in the last few years? Japan Do you know why? Because they are full of extremists and close off their borders.
Japan's economy is a house of cards though.
Not more than europe.
Japan's economy, for a bunch of reasons, has more long term challenges than Europe's. Closing borders is hardly a good solution when the birth rate is lower than 2 in most of the West, and it's even worse in Japan. And sure they don't have much terrorism but their population is declining a lot faster than terrorists could make Europe's population decline :p.
Anyway Japan is already homogenous so that simplifies things. Closing borders in already multicultural places wouldn't really help much, IMO. Not that you were arguing for closing borders, I'm just saying.
Just give incentives for the population to produce. Admit that you need people to reproduce and give them more benefits and tax cuts.
The problem with this is that the older a population is, the harder it is to increase benefits for any other category of people without commiting political suicide.
On July 23 2016 03:55 sharkie wrote: You know what country does not have terrorism in the last few years? Japan Do you know why? Because they are full of extremists and close off their borders.
Japan's economy is a house of cards though.
Not more than europe.
Japan's economy, for a bunch of reasons, has more long term challenges than Europe's. Closing borders is hardly a good solution when the birth rate is lower than 2 in most of the West, and it's even worse in Japan. And sure they don't have much terrorism but their population is declining a lot faster than terrorists could make Europe's population decline :p.
Anyway Japan is already homogenous so that simplifies things. Closing borders in already multicultural places wouldn't really help much, IMO. Not that you were arguing for closing borders, I'm just saying.
Just give incentives for the population to produce. Admit that you need people to reproduce and give them more benefits and tax cuts.
The problem with this is that the older a population is, the harder it is to increase benefits for any other category of people without commiting political suicide.
Check the welfare %'s on non-natives in native countries. They're astronomical, and they stay that way.
I think there's other ways to lessen the burden of this by asking the general populace to accept more responsibility for themselves without committing cultural suicide. Some measures may be drastic but far better than these multicultural experiments that I think would fail horribly in Japan. Merkel herself said in 2010, "multiculturalism has failed" before blowing open her borders. Swedes and Germans think a bunch of jobless migrants on welfare will pay for their pensions. All that does is burden the systems even more until they break. Which may be a goal of some people who are pushing Basic Income ideas around.
We're getting OT here so I apologize but I prefer countries to have somewhat strict immigration to slowly see the results of these policies over a long period of time.
On July 23 2016 03:55 sharkie wrote: You know what country does not have terrorism in the last few years? Japan Do you know why? Because they are full of extremists and close off their borders.
Japan's economy is a house of cards though.
Not more than europe.
Japan's economy, for a bunch of reasons, has more long term challenges than Europe's. Closing borders is hardly a good solution when the birth rate is lower than 2 in most of the West, and it's even worse in Japan. And sure they don't have much terrorism but their population is declining a lot faster than terrorists could make Europe's population decline :p.
Anyway Japan is already homogenous so that simplifies things. Closing borders in already multicultural places wouldn't really help much, IMO. Not that you were arguing for closing borders, I'm just saying.
Just give incentives for the population to produce. Admit that you need people to reproduce and give them more benefits and tax cuts.
The problem with this is that the older a population is, the harder it is to increase benefits for any other category of people without commiting political suicide.
at the end of the day even being at 90millions or not japan won't fall into the sea, it will still be japan and be able to recover even after decades
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
On July 23 2016 03:55 sharkie wrote: You know what country does not have terrorism in the last few years? Japan Do you know why? Because they are full of extremists and close off their borders.
Japan's economy is a house of cards though.
Not more than europe.
Japan's economy, for a bunch of reasons, has more long term challenges than Europe's. Closing borders is hardly a good solution when the birth rate is lower than 2 in most of the West, and it's even worse in Japan. And sure they don't have much terrorism but their population is declining a lot faster than terrorists could make Europe's population decline :p.
Anyway Japan is already homogenous so that simplifies things. Closing borders in already multicultural places wouldn't really help much, IMO. Not that you were arguing for closing borders, I'm just saying.
Just give incentives for the population to produce. Admit that you need people to reproduce and give them more benefits and tax cuts. Population decline should be a thing people on the left love, less people = less planet rape = better for the environment.
The environment doesn't matter if we're not around :p. Anyway countries do various things to nudge people and get them to make babies, it's just a big decision that's difficult to influence with tax cuts and other shit. What is it, they say have a child costs $200,000 over the cost of 18 years or something? People know that more or less, so a $500 tax cut and a "national love day" that specifically says go out and fuck, it doesn't work that well.
On July 23 2016 03:55 sharkie wrote: You know what country does not have terrorism in the last few years? Japan Do you know why? Because they are full of extremists and close off their borders.
Japan's economy is a house of cards though.
Not more than europe.
Japan's economy, for a bunch of reasons, has more long term challenges than Europe's. Closing borders is hardly a good solution when the birth rate is lower than 2 in most of the West, and it's even worse in Japan. And sure they don't have much terrorism but the rate of growth of their population is declining a lot faster than terrorists could make Europe's population growth decline :p.
Anyway Japan is already homogenous so that simplifies things. Closing borders in already multicultural places wouldn't really help much, IMO. Not that you were arguing for closing borders, I'm just saying.
Japan has a functionning currency; a functionning government. I know full well about Japan, but the living condition back there is not decreasing, they are just stagnating, it's not the same for Greece, or Spain, who are actually in a decline, and the eurozone is stagnating and has been for the past ten years. They are not worse than us economically.
Today it seems that way. I think Europe has the tools to recover, where Japan's situation may get a LOT worse before it gets better. I'm no economist so it's just basically a guess and a mix of things I've heard smarter people say over the years.
Very different things obviously.
That being said the GDP of Japan went from 6T in 2011 to 4T in 2015, it's a drop of 33% in 4 years. Spain dropped hard too, from 1.6T to 1.2T from 2008 to 2015, still a drop of 25% but over 7 years. Greece is in a bad shape though, for sure, going from 350b to 195b from 2008 to 2015, a 43% drop over 7 years. Now those don't tell the whole story and GDP is a deeply flawed indicator but don't underestimate the shit Japan is in.
Is it real or nominal ? Japan has been stagnating, you're taking the wrong historic period, they have been stagnating since 1990, the drop you point out is just a return to the 2008 GDP. Their GDP per capita is still higher than most european country by far. http://www.tradingeconomics.com/japan/gdp
I'm not sure it's the right place to discuss that tho. Maybe the european topic is more suited for such discussion.
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
On July 23 2016 03:24 Plansix wrote: [quote] Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
To be fair he said he would stop muslims from immigrating further, not "cleansing" the ones already inside. I also prefer the Hungarian approach.
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
On July 23 2016 04:34 SK.Testie wrote: Don't know what I'm looking at but sharing anyway. Looks like two men with guns. Not exactly shooting anyone they see though. + Show Spoiler +
Well the one walking behind could be one, was my first thought too. The first one has shorts. I wouldn't think that's a cop, also the dude at the window is warning people.
edit: civil police is a possibility actually
Was just a question of time. We made our bed and now have to lie in it, sucks for the relatives of the victims. Will happen more often in the future.
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
So you have guns because you are terrified of and feel the urge to shoot at grilled food? I wonder how crazy the inside of your head must be.
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
I should have said modern, IE, post WW2 for accuracy. And you are right that they are stagnant, rather than shrinking.
Getting really sick and tired of this shit... The escalation of attacks have gone up crazy fast, it's like every week now. Something needs to be done this is bullshit.
On July 23 2016 04:39 Godwrath wrote: Do we know anything about the victims ?
Not yet, but there are six dead and one has recently died to his injuries. I'm not 100% sure if he counts as one of the six or if there are seven dead...
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
public TV also had some footage of police only in orange/yellowish warning wests and one guy in shorts. Just seems to be very low equipped police or whatever. But seems somewhat strange to have them run around in that situation, yes.
On July 23 2016 04:16 Djzapz wrote: The environment doesn't matter if we're not around :p. Anyway countries do various things to nudge people and get them to make babies, it's just a big decision that's difficult to influence with tax cuts and other shit. What is it, they say have a child costs $200,000 over the cost of 18 years or something? People know that more or less, so a $500 tax cut and a "national love day" that specifically says go out and fuck, it doesn't work that well.
Sadly, that's pretty much what happened in Poland recently - current ruling party promised everyone 500/month of support per child (which won them the election). Then they discovered that our economy can't take it, so they changed it that you get it from the second kid onwards (unless you're really poor, then you get it all). Now there are people earning twice my wage just from having many babies...
Anyway, people didn't suddenly start reproducing en-masse. What happened was that all of the sudden the orphanages were stormed when long lost biological parents miraculously appeared out of nowhere. Also, this programme is going to cost the country dearly since it has to pay up about 3 times as much money for what each of those children is estimated to bring back into the economy over the course of their lives. Check-mate dumb, populist politicians.
Edit: Back on topic...
I feel really sad for people who lost someone in this incident. Hope everything will clarify soon and perpetrators will be caught and dealt with.
Very weird. Civilians who decided to come with their weapon when their hear about the attack maybe ?
On July 23 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:35 sharkie wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:33 Djzapz wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
public TV also had some footage of police only in orange/yellowish warning wests and one guy in shorts. Just seems to be very low equipped police or whatever. But seems somewhat strange to have them run around in that situation, yes.
Don't know they probably need everyone there is...
On July 23 2016 04:39 Godwrath wrote: Do we know anything about the victims ?
Not yet, but there are six dead and one has recently died to his injuries. I'm not 100% sure if he counts as one of the six or if there are seven dead...
Probably already counted. A few minutes ago was a statement by a police speaker were he said 5 were dead. 2 mins later he was again on TV where he had to retract the statement and said just now one victim had died. So 6 dead.
Very weird. Civilians who decided to come with their weapon when their hear about the attack maybe ?
On July 23 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:35 sharkie wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:33 Djzapz wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
public TV also had some footage of police only in orange/yellowish warning wests and one guy in shorts. Just seems to be very low equipped police or whatever. But seems somewhat strange to have them run around in that situation, yes.
It is friday evening. These guys are literally coming from their dining tables and have been called to their duty. There was no time to catch all the uniforms and equipments, guns, wests, com units must be enough.
Very weird. Civilians who decided to come with their weapon when their hear about the attack maybe ?
On July 23 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:35 sharkie wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:33 Djzapz wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
public TV also had some footage of police only in orange/yellowish warning wests and one guy in shorts. Just seems to be very low equipped police or whatever. But seems somewhat strange to have them run around in that situation, yes.
They seem to have MP5s, or another form of machine pistol. So in no way are these people civilians, considering you can't legally own one.
On July 23 2016 04:39 Godwrath wrote: Do we know anything about the victims ?
Not yet, but there are six dead and one has recently died to his injuries. I'm not 100% sure if he counts as one of the six or if there are seven dead...
Very weird. Civilians who decided to come with their weapon when their hear about the attack maybe ?
On July 23 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:35 sharkie wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:33 Djzapz wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
public TV also had some footage of police only in orange/yellowish warning wests and one guy in shorts. Just seems to be very low equipped police or whatever. But seems somewhat strange to have them run around in that situation, yes.
They seem to have MP5s, or another form of machine pistol. So in no way are these people civilians, considering you can't legally own one.
I know a places where you can buy these in my city (Duisburg). Maybe not MP5, but submachine guns and heavier weapons. They are illegal, but illegal weapons are floating.
On July 23 2016 03:24 Plansix wrote: [quote] Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
He's right to.
It's not ethnic cleansing as much as it's making sure that all people in society have common values.
My grandfather visited today and he took out his pocket knife and showed it to me as we were on the couch together. He explained what a German person had once told him on how to properly sharpen a knife. I just realized that I was chill on the couch with my grandfather while he had a lethal weapon in his hand. I realized it was perfectly fine because I've known my grandfather my entire life.
You replace him with someone else, then I'd not be as comfortable seeing a sharp knife so close to me.
You replace him with someone who is known for violence and who doesn't agree with the values I have (secularism, free speech, women aren't to be treated like shit, etc.), then I'm going to nope the fuck away from that couch.
It's the same thing with firearms. amazingxkcd is explaining how he's more than fine living in harmony with people who he can trust easily, even if they're armed with firearms. Fuck's sake. I'm Ok with walking on a side-walk even if 10 trucks pass me during the walk, because I know the trucker drivers are sane people who aren't planning mass murder. Trucks aren't the problem, firearms aren't the problem. People are the problem and that is what amazingxkcd is explaining.
Obviously not all Muslims are like this and also statistically speaking the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are low. That's why most people don't actually support extreme right wing parties or actual segregation and whatnot. However equally stupid would be pretending that there isn't a problem. I agree with amazingxkcd, I'd rather see problem people leave than give up my right to own firearms. 110% agree.
Very weird. Civilians who decided to come with their weapon when their hear about the attack maybe ?
On July 23 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:35 sharkie wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:33 Djzapz wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
public TV also had some footage of police only in orange/yellowish warning wests and one guy in shorts. Just seems to be very low equipped police or whatever. But seems somewhat strange to have them run around in that situation, yes.
They seem to have MP5s, or another form of machine pistol. So in no way are these people civilians, considering you can't legally own one.
I know a places where you can buy these in my city (Duisburg). Maybe not MP5, but submachine guns and heavier weapons. They are illegal, but illegal weapons are floating.
Yeah.. Lets go through that.
You have possibly two shooters running around, fleeing from the police. Because it's such a good idea, you take your illegally obtained and possessed automatic weapon, and go manhunt the terrorist, while looking like the exact two terrorists that are on the run yourself.
That seems like such a possibility.
Again: no way these two people are civilians. They're either cops, or the two people on the run (unlikely).
Very weird. Civilians who decided to come with their weapon when their hear about the attack maybe ?
On July 23 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:35 sharkie wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:33 Djzapz wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
public TV also had some footage of police only in orange/yellowish warning wests and one guy in shorts. Just seems to be very low equipped police or whatever. But seems somewhat strange to have them run around in that situation, yes.
It is friday evening. These guys are literally coming from their dining tables and have been called to their duty. There was no time to catch all the uniforms and equipments, guns, wests, com units must be enough.
somewhat related since people asked why they look that way, from BBC:
German tabloid Bild says police are being drafted in from Austria to help in Munich. The Germany-Austria border is just 42 miles (72km) away.
so yeah, they're probably sending out everyone they can spare
Very weird. Civilians who decided to come with their weapon when their hear about the attack maybe ?
On July 23 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:35 sharkie wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:33 Djzapz wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
public TV also had some footage of police only in orange/yellowish warning wests and one guy in shorts. Just seems to be very low equipped police or whatever. But seems somewhat strange to have them run around in that situation, yes.
It is friday evening. These guys are literally coming from their dining tables and have been called to their duty. There was no time to catch all the uniforms and equipments, guns, wests, com units must be enough.
somewhat related since people asked why they look that way, from BBC:
German tabloid Bild says police are being drafted in from Austria to help in Munich. The Germany-Austria border is just 42 miles (72km) away.
so yeah, they're probably sending out everyone they can spare
That's surprising actually. I heard that police was drafted from Nuremberg, i wouldn't have thought that austrian policemen are allowed to do their job in germany, too.
Very weird. Civilians who decided to come with their weapon when their hear about the attack maybe ?
On July 23 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:35 sharkie wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:33 Djzapz wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
public TV also had some footage of police only in orange/yellowish warning wests and one guy in shorts. Just seems to be very low equipped police or whatever. But seems somewhat strange to have them run around in that situation, yes.
It is friday evening. These guys are literally coming from their dining tables and have been called to their duty. There was no time to catch all the uniforms and equipments, guns, wests, com units must be enough.
somewhat related since people asked why they look that way, from BBC:
German tabloid Bild says police are being drafted in from Austria to help in Munich. The Germany-Austria border is just 42 miles (72km) away.
so yeah, they're probably sending out everyone they can spare
That's surprising actually. I heard that police was drafted from Nuremberg, i wouldn't have thought that austrian policemen are allowed to do their job in germany, too.
a big manhunt has started, i just hope they are gonna find them extremely fast
People are more and more tired about those killings, whoever is the perpetrator. On all the place I read things, the comments are way more belligerant than before. If things go on, politics will have to do something significant.
Very weird. Civilians who decided to come with their weapon when their hear about the attack maybe ?
On July 23 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:35 sharkie wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:33 Djzapz wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:30 NukeD wrote: Its not all about economy growth. What happened to those good old fashion values on which we used to rely?
Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
public TV also had some footage of police only in orange/yellowish warning wests and one guy in shorts. Just seems to be very low equipped police or whatever. But seems somewhat strange to have them run around in that situation, yes.
It is friday evening. These guys are literally coming from their dining tables and have been called to their duty. There was no time to catch all the uniforms and equipments, guns, wests, com units must be enough.
somewhat related since people asked why they look that way, from BBC:
German tabloid Bild says police are being drafted in from Austria to help in Munich. The Germany-Austria border is just 42 miles (72km) away.
so yeah, they're probably sending out everyone they can spare
That's surprising actually. I heard that police was drafted from Nuremberg, i wouldn't have thought that austrian policemen are allowed to do their job in germany, too.
a big manhunt has started, i just hope they are gonna find them extremely fast
On July 23 2016 04:59 WhiteDog wrote: People are more and more tired about those killings, whoever is the perpetrator. On all the place I read things, the comments are way more belligerant than before. If things go on, politics will have to do something significant.
hollande called the 9k reserve force, we are saved
Very weird. Civilians who decided to come with their weapon when their hear about the attack maybe ?
On July 23 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:35 sharkie wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:33 Djzapz wrote: [quote] Which old fashioned values? Christianity, working 80 hours a week, men work and women clean, switching crops every other season so the land doesn't get tired and other farming techniques, the fear of communism and nuclear fallout?
I'm not one to be crazy for economy growth but the problem is when an economy stops growing in capitalism it doesn't just decline gently, it snaps and people go hungry.
Closing borders is a sure way to make that happen unless you have a fertility rate above like 2.5, which afaik no one has in the west(?)
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
public TV also had some footage of police only in orange/yellowish warning wests and one guy in shorts. Just seems to be very low equipped police or whatever. But seems somewhat strange to have them run around in that situation, yes.
It is friday evening. These guys are literally coming from their dining tables and have been called to their duty. There was no time to catch all the uniforms and equipments, guns, wests, com units must be enough.
somewhat related since people asked why they look that way, from BBC:
German tabloid Bild says police are being drafted in from Austria to help in Munich. The Germany-Austria border is just 42 miles (72km) away.
so yeah, they're probably sending out everyone they can spare
That's surprising actually. I heard that police was drafted from Nuremberg, i wouldn't have thought that austrian policemen are allowed to do their job in germany, too.
a big manhunt has started, i just hope they are gonna find them extremely fast
multiple suspects are not confirmed (yet)
That's not true. Munich Police clearly stated "suspects on the run" etc.
On July 23 2016 04:59 WhiteDog wrote: People are more and more tired about those killings, whoever is the perpetrator. On all the place I read things, the comments are way more belligerant than before. If things go on, politics will have to do something significant.
hollande called the 9k reserve force, we are saved
And everybody with a brain knows it's a waste of time... That idiot flamby is the best VP for Marine.
On July 23 2016 04:59 WhiteDog wrote: People are more and more tired about those killings, whoever is the perpetrator. On all the place I read things, the comments are way more belligerant than before. If things go on, politics will have to do something significant.
hollande called the 9k reserve force, we are saved
Drei Schwerverletzte, mehrere mittelschwer Verletzte im Klinikum Rechts der Isar: Das Krankenhaus hat den Katastrophenalarm ausgelöst. Alle verfügbaren Ärzte sind zur Schicht einberufen worden. Patienten werden in Zimmern zusammengelegt, um Platz zu schaffen für möglichst viele Verletzte. Bisher sind drei Schwerstverletzte eingetroffen, eine von ihnen, ein 15-jähriges Mädchen, ist mittlerweile gestorben. Außerdem wurden einige mittelschwer Verletze eingeliefert.
The one who died in the hospital apparently was a 15 year old girl
Very weird. Civilians who decided to come with their weapon when their hear about the attack maybe ?
On July 23 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:35 sharkie wrote: [quote]
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
public TV also had some footage of police only in orange/yellowish warning wests and one guy in shorts. Just seems to be very low equipped police or whatever. But seems somewhat strange to have them run around in that situation, yes.
It is friday evening. These guys are literally coming from their dining tables and have been called to their duty. There was no time to catch all the uniforms and equipments, guns, wests, com units must be enough.
somewhat related since people asked why they look that way, from BBC:
German tabloid Bild says police are being drafted in from Austria to help in Munich. The Germany-Austria border is just 42 miles (72km) away.
so yeah, they're probably sending out everyone they can spare
That's surprising actually. I heard that police was drafted from Nuremberg, i wouldn't have thought that austrian policemen are allowed to do their job in germany, too.
a big manhunt has started, i just hope they are gonna find them extremely fast
multiple suspects are not confirmed (yet)
That's not true. Munich Police clearly stated "suspects on the run" etc.
the bavarian minister of the interior just said that its AT LEAST 1 suspect and not 3
Very weird. Civilians who decided to come with their weapon when their hear about the attack maybe ?
On July 23 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote:
On July 23 2016 04:35 sharkie wrote: [quote]
Japanese are starving? o.o That's new to me
Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
public TV also had some footage of police only in orange/yellowish warning wests and one guy in shorts. Just seems to be very low equipped police or whatever. But seems somewhat strange to have them run around in that situation, yes.
It is friday evening. These guys are literally coming from their dining tables and have been called to their duty. There was no time to catch all the uniforms and equipments, guns, wests, com units must be enough.
somewhat related since people asked why they look that way, from BBC:
German tabloid Bild says police are being drafted in from Austria to help in Munich. The Germany-Austria border is just 42 miles (72km) away.
so yeah, they're probably sending out everyone they can spare
That's surprising actually. I heard that police was drafted from Nuremberg, i wouldn't have thought that austrian policemen are allowed to do their job in germany, too.
a big manhunt has started, i just hope they are gonna find them extremely fast
multiple suspects are not confirmed (yet)
That's not true. Munich Police clearly stated "suspects on the run" etc.
Both.
Police has also detained 3 people who are called suspects. It's becoming incresingly clear though that they have nothing to do with it
On July 23 2016 04:59 WhiteDog wrote: People are more and more tired about those killings, whoever is the perpetrator. On all the place I read things, the comments are way more belligerant than before. If things go on, politics will have to do something significant.
hollande called the 9k reserve force, we are saved
Thank God for Hollande!
What a fucking piece of shit holy lmao
I think I'd spit on him if he were in front of me
Like 80 % of the french. We're united in that at least
On July 23 2016 05:05 Toadesstern wrote: from SüdDeutsches liveticker:
Drei Schwerverletzte, mehrere mittelschwer Verletzte im Klinikum Rechts der Isar: Das Krankenhaus hat den Katastrophenalarm ausgelöst. Alle verfügbaren Ärzte sind zur Schicht einberufen worden. Patienten werden in Zimmern zusammengelegt, um Platz zu schaffen für möglichst viele Verletzte. Bisher sind drei Schwerstverletzte eingetroffen, eine von ihnen, ein 15-jähriges Mädchen, ist mittlerweile gestorben. Außerdem wurden einige mittelschwer Verletze eingeliefert.
The one who died in the hospital apparently was a 15 year old girl
On July 23 2016 04:59 WhiteDog wrote: People are more and more tired about those killings, whoever is the perpetrator. On all the place I read things, the comments are way more belligerant than before. If things go on, politics will have to do something significant.
hollande called the 9k reserve force, we are saved
Did he give a reason, or is he just playing out some sort of authoritarian wish fulfilment fantasy?
Very weird. Civilians who decided to come with their weapon when their hear about the attack maybe ?
On July 23 2016 04:36 Plansix wrote: [quote] Have have in and out of one of the longest recessions in human history. But I don't think they are "starving" on mass.
It's not a recession it's a stagnation, very different (the lost decade). And it's not the longest in history, by far.
public TV also had some footage of police only in orange/yellowish warning wests and one guy in shorts. Just seems to be very low equipped police or whatever. But seems somewhat strange to have them run around in that situation, yes.
It is friday evening. These guys are literally coming from their dining tables and have been called to their duty. There was no time to catch all the uniforms and equipments, guns, wests, com units must be enough.
somewhat related since people asked why they look that way, from BBC:
German tabloid Bild says police are being drafted in from Austria to help in Munich. The Germany-Austria border is just 42 miles (72km) away.
so yeah, they're probably sending out everyone they can spare
That's surprising actually. I heard that police was drafted from Nuremberg, i wouldn't have thought that austrian policemen are allowed to do their job in germany, too.
a big manhunt has started, i just hope they are gonna find them extremely fast
multiple suspects are not confirmed (yet)
That's not true. Munich Police clearly stated "suspects on the run" etc.
Both.
Police has also detained 3 people who are called suspects. It's becoming incresingly clear though that they have nothing to do with it
Three armed people were reported to the police, that's what they go by. As is clearly stated on their twitter as well as their facebook.
While it's true that nobody actually knows how many people in the end did this, the police at the moment is assuming three people. While the three shooters are not confirmed, the reports of them are.
edit:
Die Polizei spricht von einer «akuten Terrorlage» in München. Das gab die Münchner Polizei in einer offiziellen Mitteilung bekannt. Nach dem Attentat in München sind nach Angaben der Polizei drei Täter mit «Langwaffen» auf der Flucht.
The police is talking of an "acute terrorsituation" in munich. That was stated in an official statement of the munich police department. After the attack in munich, three perps with "long-weapons" (rifles of any sort, shotguns, everything with a long barrel) are on the run, munich police reports.
Bbc said that special forces are coming to Munich. I don't get this - it's been nearly 4 hours. What were they waiting for? How come they still didn't get them and had to call police from Austria too??
On July 23 2016 05:12 AngryMag wrote: Guess the fun will continue tomorrow if the perpetrators survive the night.
would be surprising given that Germany is taking Austrian law enforcement in to help the man hunt
Still doubting that.
edit: only source stating this is http://www.bild.de/ - might wanna have a look at their general webpage, and then judge.
edit2
Bbc said that special forces are coming to Munich. I don't get this - it's been nearly 4 hours. What were they waiting for? How come they still didn't get them and had to call police from Austria too??
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
He's right to.
It's not ethnic cleansing as much as it's making sure that all people in society have common values.
My grandfather visited today and he took out his pocket knife and showed it to me as we were on the couch together. He explained what a German person had once told him on how to properly sharpen a knife. I just realized that I was chill on the couch with my grandfather while he had a lethal weapon in his hand. I realized it was perfectly fine because I've known my grandfather my entire life.
You replace him with someone else, then I'd not be as comfortable seeing a sharp knife so close to me.
You replace him with someone who is known for violence and who doesn't agree with the values I have (secularism, free speech, women aren't to be treated like shit, etc.), then I'm going to nope the fuck away from that couch.
It's the same thing with firearms. amazingxkcd is explaining how he's more than fine living in harmony with people who he can trust easily, even if they're armed with firearms. Fuck's sake. I'm Ok with walking on a side-walk even if 10 trucks pass me during the walk, because I know the trucker drivers are sane people who aren't planning mass murder. Trucks aren't the problem, firearms aren't the problem. People are the problem and that is what amazingxkcd is explaining.
Obviously not all Muslims are like this and also statistically speaking the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are low. That's why most people don't actually support extreme right wing parties or actual segregation and whatnot. However equally stupid would be pretending that there isn't a problem. I agree with amazingxkcd, I'd rather see problem people leave than give up my right to own firearms. 110% agree.
What are you on about? "remove kebab" is a stupid meme about ethnically cleansing muslim bosniaks or muslims in general. It's not about fucking living in harmony with your neighbour or whatever the fuck you just wrote.
I would have taken it just as shitposting a stupid meme until his second post... :S
On July 23 2016 05:12 AngryMag wrote: Guess the fun will continue tomorrow if the perpetrators survive the night.
would be surprising given that Germany is taking Austrian law enforcement in to help the man hunt
Still doubting that.
edit: only source stating this is http://www.bild.de/ - might wanna have a look at their general webpage, and then judge.
it's certainly odd... but this part of it seems pretty trustworthy
Münchner Polizei fordert GSG9 und andere Spezialeinheiten an
München (dpa) - Nach dem Attentat in einem Münchner Einkaufszentrum hat die Polizei Spezialeinheiten aus mehreren anderen Bundesländern angefordert. Darunter ist auch das GSG9 der Bundespolizei, wie ein Polizeisprecher der dpa sagte. Die GSG 9 ist ein Spezialkommando der Bundespolizei und wird auch im Anti-Terrorkampf eingesetzt.
basicly what SoSexy said.
Maybe since it's already been some time ago they're afraid that the guys can get out of germany through Austria and the "help" from austrian police is just at the border to ensure they don't get through there? idk
On July 23 2016 03:31 Dan HH wrote: [quote] What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
He's right to.
It's not ethnic cleansing as much as it's making sure that all people in society have common values.
My grandfather visited today and he took out his pocket knife and showed it to me as we were on the couch together. He explained what a German person had once told him on how to properly sharpen a knife. I just realized that I was chill on the couch with my grandfather while he had a lethal weapon in his hand. I realized it was perfectly fine because I've known my grandfather my entire life.
You replace him with someone else, then I'd not be as comfortable seeing a sharp knife so close to me.
You replace him with someone who is known for violence and who doesn't agree with the values I have (secularism, free speech, women aren't to be treated like shit, etc.), then I'm going to nope the fuck away from that couch.
It's the same thing with firearms. amazingxkcd is explaining how he's more than fine living in harmony with people who he can trust easily, even if they're armed with firearms. Fuck's sake. I'm Ok with walking on a side-walk even if 10 trucks pass me during the walk, because I know the trucker drivers are sane people who aren't planning mass murder. Trucks aren't the problem, firearms aren't the problem. People are the problem and that is what amazingxkcd is explaining.
Obviously not all Muslims are like this and also statistically speaking the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are low. That's why most people don't actually support extreme right wing parties or actual segregation and whatnot. However equally stupid would be pretending that there isn't a problem. I agree with amazingxkcd, I'd rather see problem people leave than give up my right to own firearms. 110% agree.
What are you on about? "remove kebab" is a stupid meme about ethnically cleansing muslim bosniaks or muslims in general. It's not about fucking living in harmony with your neighbour or whatever the fuck you just wrote.
I would have taken it just as shitposting a stupid meme until his second post... :S
I learn something new every day. But I am not shocked considering the poster in question.
On July 23 2016 03:31 Dan HH wrote: [quote] What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
He's right to.
It's not ethnic cleansing as much as it's making sure that all people in society have common values.
My grandfather visited today and he took out his pocket knife and showed it to me as we were on the couch together. He explained what a German person had once told him on how to properly sharpen a knife. I just realized that I was chill on the couch with my grandfather while he had a lethal weapon in his hand. I realized it was perfectly fine because I've known my grandfather my entire life.
You replace him with someone else, then I'd not be as comfortable seeing a sharp knife so close to me.
You replace him with someone who is known for violence and who doesn't agree with the values I have (secularism, free speech, women aren't to be treated like shit, etc.), then I'm going to nope the fuck away from that couch.
It's the same thing with firearms. amazingxkcd is explaining how he's more than fine living in harmony with people who he can trust easily, even if they're armed with firearms. Fuck's sake. I'm Ok with walking on a side-walk even if 10 trucks pass me during the walk, because I know the trucker drivers are sane people who aren't planning mass murder. Trucks aren't the problem, firearms aren't the problem. People are the problem and that is what amazingxkcd is explaining.
Obviously not all Muslims are like this and also statistically speaking the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are low. That's why most people don't actually support extreme right wing parties or actual segregation and whatnot. However equally stupid would be pretending that there isn't a problem. I agree with amazingxkcd, I'd rather see problem people leave than give up my right to own firearms. 110% agree.
What are you on about? "remove kebab" is a stupid meme about ethnically cleansing muslim bosniaks or muslims in general. It's not about fucking living in harmony with your neighbour or whatever the fuck you just wrote.
I would have taken it just as shitposting a stupid meme until his second post... :S
Ah right, that's what "remove kebab" means. I literally thought he was insane and hates food. Why is this guy even allowed to say this scot free? I would imagine that any other forum member which decided to advocate ethnic cleansing would be instabanned.
On July 23 2016 05:18 SoSexy wrote: Bbc said that special forces are coming to Munich. I don't get this - it's been nearly 4 hours. What were they waiting for? How come they still didn't get them and had to call police from Austria too??
Police from Austria is there to block the borders, not to be called into Munich.
Special forces refers to GSG9 - federal police - to assist SEK, the special forces of the state police.
Münchner Polizei fordert GSG9 und andere Spezialeinheiten an
München (dpa) - Nach dem Attentat in einem Münchner Einkaufszentrum hat die Polizei Spezialeinheiten aus mehreren anderen Bundesländern angefordert. Darunter ist auch das GSG9 der Bundespolizei, wie ein Polizeisprecher der dpa sagte. Die GSG 9 ist ein Spezialkommando der Bundespolizei und wird auch im Anti-Terrorkampf eingesetzt.
basicly what SoSexy said
That has nothing to do with austria, first of all - and second of all, there was already news about the GSG9 out there two hours ago.
Not saying that our police is competent, but it's factually untrue to say "4 hours after the attacks begun the GSG9 comes".
edit: towards your edit, yeah that seems most likely - they "reinforced" the border patrol on austrian side. Austria has no jurisdiction in germany, at least to my knowledge.
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
He's right to.
It's not ethnic cleansing as much as it's making sure that all people in society have common values.
My grandfather visited today and he took out his pocket knife and showed it to me as we were on the couch together. He explained what a German person had once told him on how to properly sharpen a knife. I just realized that I was chill on the couch with my grandfather while he had a lethal weapon in his hand. I realized it was perfectly fine because I've known my grandfather my entire life.
You replace him with someone else, then I'd not be as comfortable seeing a sharp knife so close to me.
You replace him with someone who is known for violence and who doesn't agree with the values I have (secularism, free speech, women aren't to be treated like shit, etc.), then I'm going to nope the fuck away from that couch.
It's the same thing with firearms. amazingxkcd is explaining how he's more than fine living in harmony with people who he can trust easily, even if they're armed with firearms. Fuck's sake. I'm Ok with walking on a side-walk even if 10 trucks pass me during the walk, because I know the trucker drivers are sane people who aren't planning mass murder. Trucks aren't the problem, firearms aren't the problem. People are the problem and that is what amazingxkcd is explaining.
Obviously not all Muslims are like this and also statistically speaking the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are low. That's why most people don't actually support extreme right wing parties or actual segregation and whatnot. However equally stupid would be pretending that there isn't a problem. I agree with amazingxkcd, I'd rather see problem people leave than give up my right to own firearms. 110% agree.
What are you on about? "remove kebab" is a stupid meme about ethnically cleansing muslim bosniaks or muslims in general. It's not about fucking living in harmony with your neighbour or whatever the fuck you just wrote.
I would have taken it just as shitposting a stupid meme until his second post... :S
Ah right, that's what "remove kebab" means. I literally thought he was insane and hates food. Why is this guy even allowed to say this scot free? I would imagine that any other forum member ehich decided to advocate ethnic cleansing would be instabanned.
On July 23 2016 03:31 Dan HH wrote: [quote] What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
He's right to.
It's not ethnic cleansing as much as it's making sure that all people in society have common values.
My grandfather visited today and he took out his pocket knife and showed it to me as we were on the couch together. He explained what a German person had once told him on how to properly sharpen a knife. I just realized that I was chill on the couch with my grandfather while he had a lethal weapon in his hand. I realized it was perfectly fine because I've known my grandfather my entire life.
You replace him with someone else, then I'd not be as comfortable seeing a sharp knife so close to me.
You replace him with someone who is known for violence and who doesn't agree with the values I have (secularism, free speech, women aren't to be treated like shit, etc.), then I'm going to nope the fuck away from that couch.
It's the same thing with firearms. amazingxkcd is explaining how he's more than fine living in harmony with people who he can trust easily, even if they're armed with firearms. Fuck's sake. I'm Ok with walking on a side-walk even if 10 trucks pass me during the walk, because I know the trucker drivers are sane people who aren't planning mass murder. Trucks aren't the problem, firearms aren't the problem. People are the problem and that is what amazingxkcd is explaining.
Obviously not all Muslims are like this and also statistically speaking the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are low. That's why most people don't actually support extreme right wing parties or actual segregation and whatnot. However equally stupid would be pretending that there isn't a problem. I agree with amazingxkcd, I'd rather see problem people leave than give up my right to own firearms. 110% agree.
What are you on about? "remove kebab" is a stupid meme about ethnically cleansing muslim bosniaks or muslims in general. It's not about fucking living in harmony with your neighbour or whatever the fuck you just wrote.
I would have taken it just as shitposting a stupid meme until his second post... :S
On July 23 2016 03:38 OtherWorld wrote: [quote] A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
He's right to.
It's not ethnic cleansing as much as it's making sure that all people in society have common values.
My grandfather visited today and he took out his pocket knife and showed it to me as we were on the couch together. He explained what a German person had once told him on how to properly sharpen a knife. I just realized that I was chill on the couch with my grandfather while he had a lethal weapon in his hand. I realized it was perfectly fine because I've known my grandfather my entire life.
You replace him with someone else, then I'd not be as comfortable seeing a sharp knife so close to me.
You replace him with someone who is known for violence and who doesn't agree with the values I have (secularism, free speech, women aren't to be treated like shit, etc.), then I'm going to nope the fuck away from that couch.
It's the same thing with firearms. amazingxkcd is explaining how he's more than fine living in harmony with people who he can trust easily, even if they're armed with firearms. Fuck's sake. I'm Ok with walking on a side-walk even if 10 trucks pass me during the walk, because I know the trucker drivers are sane people who aren't planning mass murder. Trucks aren't the problem, firearms aren't the problem. People are the problem and that is what amazingxkcd is explaining.
Obviously not all Muslims are like this and also statistically speaking the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are low. That's why most people don't actually support extreme right wing parties or actual segregation and whatnot. However equally stupid would be pretending that there isn't a problem. I agree with amazingxkcd, I'd rather see problem people leave than give up my right to own firearms. 110% agree.
What are you on about? "remove kebab" is a stupid meme about ethnically cleansing muslim bosniaks or muslims in general. It's not about fucking living in harmony with your neighbour or whatever the fuck you just wrote.
I would have taken it just as shitposting a stupid meme until his second post... :S
Ah right, that's what "remove kebab" means. I literally thought he was insane and hates food. Why is this guy even allowed to say this scot free? I would imagine that any other forum member ehich decided to advocate ethnic cleansing would be instabanned.
On July 23 2016 03:38 OtherWorld wrote: [quote] A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
He's right to.
It's not ethnic cleansing as much as it's making sure that all people in society have common values.
My grandfather visited today and he took out his pocket knife and showed it to me as we were on the couch together. He explained what a German person had once told him on how to properly sharpen a knife. I just realized that I was chill on the couch with my grandfather while he had a lethal weapon in his hand. I realized it was perfectly fine because I've known my grandfather my entire life.
You replace him with someone else, then I'd not be as comfortable seeing a sharp knife so close to me.
You replace him with someone who is known for violence and who doesn't agree with the values I have (secularism, free speech, women aren't to be treated like shit, etc.), then I'm going to nope the fuck away from that couch.
It's the same thing with firearms. amazingxkcd is explaining how he's more than fine living in harmony with people who he can trust easily, even if they're armed with firearms. Fuck's sake. I'm Ok with walking on a side-walk even if 10 trucks pass me during the walk, because I know the trucker drivers are sane people who aren't planning mass murder. Trucks aren't the problem, firearms aren't the problem. People are the problem and that is what amazingxkcd is explaining.
Obviously not all Muslims are like this and also statistically speaking the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are low. That's why most people don't actually support extreme right wing parties or actual segregation and whatnot. However equally stupid would be pretending that there isn't a problem. I agree with amazingxkcd, I'd rather see problem people leave than give up my right to own firearms. 110% agree.
What are you on about? "remove kebab" is a stupid meme about ethnically cleansing muslim bosniaks or muslims in general. It's not about fucking living in harmony with your neighbour or whatever the fuck you just wrote.
I would have taken it just as shitposting a stupid meme until his second post... :S
Ah right, that's what "remove kebab" means. I literally thought he was insane and hates food. Why is this guy even allowed to say this scot free? I would imagine that any other forum member ehich decided to advocate ethnic cleansing would be instabanned.
does my political views hamper my esports work?
Advocating ethnically cleansing Muslim is not really something I hear around the office that much, tbh. I think we would let someone go, no matter how good they were at their job.
I do not think that this is true, there was however this "mysterious" Facebookaccount by a girl named "Selina Akim". From the name and the looks, it seems like she's from the middle-east. On her Facebookpage she invited people to meet her at the OZE (the mall where the shootings happened) at 16.00 o'clock. It's obvious that this account has been a bait - probably by the guys who are responsible for the attacks - and it was already shut down... but still.
On July 23 2016 05:26 SoSexy wrote: So GSC9 came immediately and they still didn't get them ?
You've obviously never worked as a or with policemen.
On July 23 2016 03:38 OtherWorld wrote: [quote] A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
He's right to.
It's not ethnic cleansing as much as it's making sure that all people in society have common values.
My grandfather visited today and he took out his pocket knife and showed it to me as we were on the couch together. He explained what a German person had once told him on how to properly sharpen a knife. I just realized that I was chill on the couch with my grandfather while he had a lethal weapon in his hand. I realized it was perfectly fine because I've known my grandfather my entire life.
You replace him with someone else, then I'd not be as comfortable seeing a sharp knife so close to me.
You replace him with someone who is known for violence and who doesn't agree with the values I have (secularism, free speech, women aren't to be treated like shit, etc.), then I'm going to nope the fuck away from that couch.
It's the same thing with firearms. amazingxkcd is explaining how he's more than fine living in harmony with people who he can trust easily, even if they're armed with firearms. Fuck's sake. I'm Ok with walking on a side-walk even if 10 trucks pass me during the walk, because I know the trucker drivers are sane people who aren't planning mass murder. Trucks aren't the problem, firearms aren't the problem. People are the problem and that is what amazingxkcd is explaining.
Obviously not all Muslims are like this and also statistically speaking the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are low. That's why most people don't actually support extreme right wing parties or actual segregation and whatnot. However equally stupid would be pretending that there isn't a problem. I agree with amazingxkcd, I'd rather see problem people leave than give up my right to own firearms. 110% agree.
What are you on about? "remove kebab" is a stupid meme about ethnically cleansing muslim bosniaks or muslims in general. It's not about fucking living in harmony with your neighbour or whatever the fuck you just wrote.
I would have taken it just as shitposting a stupid meme until his second post... :S
Ah right, that's what "remove kebab" means. I literally thought he was insane and hates food. Why is this guy even allowed to say this scot free? I would imagine that any other forum member ehich decided to advocate ethnic cleansing would be instabanned.
does my political views hamper my esports work?
I would rather get my esports(tm) from someone who doesn't advocate ethnic cleansing.
On July 23 2016 05:26 SoSexy wrote: So GSC9 came immediately and they still didn't get them ?
GSG 9 headquarters are halfway across Germany, no idea where exactly they were pulled from but assume more than an hour even if they got on a plane immediately.
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
He's right to.
It's not ethnic cleansing as much as it's making sure that all people in society have common values.
My grandfather visited today and he took out his pocket knife and showed it to me as we were on the couch together. He explained what a German person had once told him on how to properly sharpen a knife. I just realized that I was chill on the couch with my grandfather while he had a lethal weapon in his hand. I realized it was perfectly fine because I've known my grandfather my entire life.
You replace him with someone else, then I'd not be as comfortable seeing a sharp knife so close to me.
You replace him with someone who is known for violence and who doesn't agree with the values I have (secularism, free speech, women aren't to be treated like shit, etc.), then I'm going to nope the fuck away from that couch.
It's the same thing with firearms. amazingxkcd is explaining how he's more than fine living in harmony with people who he can trust easily, even if they're armed with firearms. Fuck's sake. I'm Ok with walking on a side-walk even if 10 trucks pass me during the walk, because I know the trucker drivers are sane people who aren't planning mass murder. Trucks aren't the problem, firearms aren't the problem. People are the problem and that is what amazingxkcd is explaining.
Obviously not all Muslims are like this and also statistically speaking the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are low. That's why most people don't actually support extreme right wing parties or actual segregation and whatnot. However equally stupid would be pretending that there isn't a problem. I agree with amazingxkcd, I'd rather see problem people leave than give up my right to own firearms. 110% agree.
What are you on about? "remove kebab" is a stupid meme about ethnically cleansing muslim bosniaks or muslims in general. It's not about fucking living in harmony with your neighbour or whatever the fuck you just wrote.
I would have taken it just as shitposting a stupid meme until his second post... :S
Ah right, that's what "remove kebab" means. I literally thought he was insane and hates food. Why is this guy even allowed to say this scot free? I would imagine that any other forum member ehich decided to advocate ethnic cleansing would be instabanned.
does my political views hamper my esports work?
Advocating ethnically cleansing Muslim is not really something I hear around the office that much, tbh. I think we would let someone go, no matter how good they were at their job.
I don't know what you mean by "ethnically cleansing", but radical islam is definitely a problem that the world could do more about. Let's wait and see if shooter is indeed muslim before we discuss such topics.
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
He's right to.
It's not ethnic cleansing as much as it's making sure that all people in society have common values.
My grandfather visited today and he took out his pocket knife and showed it to me as we were on the couch together. He explained what a German person had once told him on how to properly sharpen a knife. I just realized that I was chill on the couch with my grandfather while he had a lethal weapon in his hand. I realized it was perfectly fine because I've known my grandfather my entire life.
You replace him with someone else, then I'd not be as comfortable seeing a sharp knife so close to me.
You replace him with someone who is known for violence and who doesn't agree with the values I have (secularism, free speech, women aren't to be treated like shit, etc.), then I'm going to nope the fuck away from that couch.
It's the same thing with firearms. amazingxkcd is explaining how he's more than fine living in harmony with people who he can trust easily, even if they're armed with firearms. Fuck's sake. I'm Ok with walking on a side-walk even if 10 trucks pass me during the walk, because I know the trucker drivers are sane people who aren't planning mass murder. Trucks aren't the problem, firearms aren't the problem. People are the problem and that is what amazingxkcd is explaining.
Obviously not all Muslims are like this and also statistically speaking the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are low. That's why most people don't actually support extreme right wing parties or actual segregation and whatnot. However equally stupid would be pretending that there isn't a problem. I agree with amazingxkcd, I'd rather see problem people leave than give up my right to own firearms. 110% agree.
What are you on about? "remove kebab" is a stupid meme about ethnically cleansing muslim bosniaks or muslims in general. It's not about fucking living in harmony with your neighbour or whatever the fuck you just wrote.
I would have taken it just as shitposting a stupid meme until his second post... :S
Ah right, that's what "remove kebab" means. I literally thought he was insane and hates food. Why is this guy even allowed to say this scot free? I would imagine that any other forum member ehich decided to advocate ethnic cleansing would be instabanned.
does my political views hamper my esports work?
Advocating ethnically cleansing Muslim is not really something I hear around the office that much, tbh. I think we would let someone go, no matter how good they were at their job.
I don't know what you mean by "ethnically cleansing", but radical islam is definitely a problem that the world could do more about. Let's wait and see if shooter is indeed muslim before we discuss such topics.
The meme in question is about murdering ALL Muslims. All of them. Not just the radical ones. Every single one. Like genocide.
I do not think that this is true, there was however this "mysterious" Facebookaccount by a girl named "Selina Akim". From the name and the looks, it seems like she's from the middle-east. On her Facebookpage she invited people to meet her at the OZE (the mall where the shootings happened) at 16.00 o'clock. It's obvious that this account has been a bait - probably by the guys who are responsible for the attacks - and it was already shut down... but still.
On July 23 2016 05:26 SoSexy wrote: So GSC9 came immediately and they still didn't get them ?
do you realize how big is a city ?
Not particulalry big, and the whole thing with GSG9 seems to be very confusing for people who get their info from Counterstrike.
GSG9 is a single small elite unit of the federal police. They'll send something like 50 guys. That doesn't mean that there isn't police, including special forces, in Munich all the time, it'll just be state police.
On July 23 2016 05:36 WhiteDog wrote: Would be really weird for neo nazis to attack a mall, why not a mosque ? They're that dumb ?
If it is neo-Nazis or something similar it could be to 'wake them up' to 'what is going on' and to punish them for not being neo-Nazis or something similar. That is what Breivik did, he attacked that summer camp run by the youth league of the Norwegian Labour Party, to punish the left wing in Norway for 'betraying Christian civilization' or whatever.
Interesting way of speaking from the perpetrator on the roof in that one video (if that is actually footage of one of the perpetrators). And I acctually dont think that the guy on the balcony shouted the "fucking foreigners". seemed more like the guy on the roof was shouting. Would be shocked to see it actually beeing nazis
My gf just called me, says she can hear shooting coming from outside, shes a German national currently working as a doctor in a hospital in Dinslaken i believe? Or Hulsemannshop sorry i have no little knowledge about German towns
Not sure how far that is from Munich but its not looking good, just hoping its a false alarm and its fireworks or something which was the first question i asked her, she seemed pretty convinced though.
On July 23 2016 05:36 WhiteDog wrote: Would be really weird for neo nazis to attack a mall, why not a mosque ? They're that dumb ?
If it is neo-Nazis or something similar it could be to 'wake them up' to 'what is going on' and to punish them for not being neo-Nazis or something similar. That is what Breivik did, he attacked that summer camp run by the youth league of the Norwegian Labour Party, to punish the left wing in Norway for 'betraying Christian civilization' or whatever.
it would fit... it's also the 5th anniversary... so if this is the motive it would make 'sense' to do it today
On July 23 2016 05:36 WhiteDog wrote: Would be really weird for neo nazis to attack a mall, why not a mosque ? They're that dumb ?
If it is neo-Nazis or something similar it could be to 'wake them up' to 'what is going on' and to punish them for not being neo-Nazis or something similar. That is what Breivik did, he attacked that summer camp run by the youth league of the Norwegian Labour Party, to punish the left wing in Norway for 'betraying Christian civilization' or whatever.
Yeah, but Breivik in his dementia had picked a target that made sense (a summer camp for the party that defended multiculralism and diversity). This just does not make any sense, you can't make any distinction in a mall, you can kill muslim and neo nazis with the same bullet : it's too random. But, coming from Zatic and Clonester's comments, they might be that stupid.
On July 23 2016 05:36 WhiteDog wrote: Would be really weird for neo nazis to attack a mall, why not a mosque ? They're that dumb ?
Nazis attacking Germans for no particular reason has tradition in Munich I suppose.
Actual National Socialists from the 30's would have rounded up and shot these people calling themselves Nazi's today, there is no continuity between them unlike other fascist movements in eastern Europe today which are run by the offspring of Nazi-collaborators ect.
Neo-nazi's are just violent unadjusted people that use fascism as a gateway to violence and drugs and other people that like the same things. The same can be said for anti-fascists in northern Europe also.
On July 23 2016 05:36 WhiteDog wrote: Would be really weird for neo nazis to attack a mall, why not a mosque ? They're that dumb ?
Nazis attacking Germans for no particular reason has tradition in Munich I suppose.
Actual National Socialists from the 30's would have rounded up and shot these people calling themselves Nazi's today, there is no continuity between them unlike other fascist movements in eastern Europe today which are run by the offspring of Nazi-collaborators ect.
Neo-nazi's are just violent unadjusted people that use fascism as a gateway to violence and drugs and other people that like the same things. The same can be said for anti-fascists in northern Europe also.
On July 23 2016 05:36 WhiteDog wrote: Would be really weird for neo nazis to attack a mall, why not a mosque ? They're that dumb ?
If it is neo-Nazis or something similar it could be to 'wake them up' to 'what is going on' and to punish them for not being neo-Nazis or something similar. That is what Breivik did, he attacked that summer camp run by the youth league of the Norwegian Labour Party, to punish the left wing in Norway for 'betraying Christian civilization' or whatever.
Yeah, but Breivik in his dementia had picked a target that made sense (a summer camp for the party that defended multiculralism and diversity). This just does not make any sense, you can't make any distinction in a mall, you can kill muslim and neo nazis with the same bullet : it's too random. But, coming from other comments, they might be that stupid.
There are plenty of examples of violent fringe groups attacking random civilians because they're pissed off that the general populace isn't coming around to supporting their undeniable crazy 'truth.' If you're in that us few brave revolutionaries against the whole wicked world mindset you can find a bunch of reasons to kill random civilians, from frustration to punishment to wanting to instill fear/show your power.
It's all speculation anyway until they capture or kill the shooters and discover their identities.
On July 23 2016 05:42 Reaps wrote: My gf just called me, says she can hear shooting coming from outside, shes a German national currently working as a doctor in a hospital in Dinslaken i believe? Or Hulsemannshop sorry i have no little knowledge about German towns
Not sure how far that is from Munich but its not looking good, just hoping its a false alarm and its fireworks or something which was the first question i asked her, she seemed pretty convinced though.
Dinslaken is hundreds of kilometers away from Munich. I don't know "Hulsemannshop", sounds rather nordic though. Tell ur gf to turn off the TV or whatever. If she's not in Munich, there's zero probability she can hear shooting from the outside.
On July 23 2016 05:36 WhiteDog wrote: Would be really weird for neo nazis to attack a mall, why not a mosque ? They're that dumb ?
If it is neo-Nazis or something similar it could be to 'wake them up' to 'what is going on' and to punish them for not being neo-Nazis or something similar. That is what Breivik did, he attacked that summer camp run by the youth league of the Norwegian Labour Party, to punish the left wing in Norway for 'betraying Christian civilization' or whatever.
Yeah, but Breivik in his dementia had picked a target that made sense (a summer camp for the party that defended multiculralism and diversity). This just does not make any sense, you can't make any distinction in a mall, you can kill muslim and neo nazis with the same bullet : it's too random. But, coming from other comments, they might be that stupid.
Munich is a big city and muslims live mostly in big cities. If you go to a place like a mall, where you can find a lot people, you will most likely find a lot of muslims. It's not that irrational.
On July 23 2016 05:42 Reaps wrote: My gf just called me, says she can hear shooting coming from outside, shes a German national currently working as a doctor in a hospital in Dinslaken i believe? Or Hulsemannshop sorry i have no little knowledge about German towns
Not sure how far that is from Munich but its not looking good, just hoping its a false alarm and its fireworks or something which was the first question i asked her, she seemed pretty convinced though.
Dinslaken is hundreds of kilometers away from Munich. I don't know "Hulsemannshop", sounds rather nordic though. Tell ur gf to turn off the TV or whatever. If she's not in Munich, there's zero probability she can hear shooting from the outside.
Yes i am worried about a second attack in a different location, there is no TV around.
On July 23 2016 05:36 WhiteDog wrote: Would be really weird for neo nazis to attack a mall, why not a mosque ? They're that dumb ?
Nazis attacking Germans for no particular reason has tradition in Munich I suppose.
Actual National Socialists from the 30's would have rounded up and shot these people calling themselves Nazi's today, there is no continuity between them unlike other fascist movements in eastern Europe today which are run by the offspring of Nazi-collaborators ect.
Neo-nazi's are just violent unadjusted people that use fascism as a gateway to violence and drugs and other people that like the same things. The same can be said for anti-fascists in northern Europe also.
On July 23 2016 05:42 Reaps wrote: My gf just called me, says she can hear shooting coming from outside, shes a German national currently working as a doctor in a hospital in Dinslaken i believe? Or Hulsemannshop sorry i have no little knowledge about German towns
Not sure how far that is from Munich but its not looking good, just hoping its a false alarm and its fireworks or something which was the first question i asked her, she seemed pretty convinced though.
Dinslaken is hundreds of kilometers away from Munich. I don't know "Hulsemannshop", sounds rather nordic though. Tell ur gf to turn off the TV or whatever. If she's not in Munich, there's zero probability she can hear shooting from the outside.
Yes i am worried about a second attack in a different location, there is no TV around.
Dinslaken is northern of Duisburg, the city i live in. There was a guy in northern duisburg who drove away after he drove into another car and later people told the police that this very guy had a bomb in his flat. Giant police force taking him down, found nothing.
So apparently a neighbour talked to one of the shooters on the roof of the garage:
Anwohner: "Du A***,du Hund, du bleder, du W***" Täter: "wegen euch wurde ich gemobbt, sieben jahre lang" Anwohner: "Du bist ein Arschloch" Täter: "und jetzt musst ich ne waffe kaufen, um euch alle abzuknallen"..." Anwohner:"ah Waffen?Dir gehört der Schädl eingschlogn du Arschloch" "...." Anwohner: "Der hat ne Waffe, der seine Waffe geladen, hol einer die Bullen, hol den einer da runter" Täter:"Scheiß Türken" Anwohner: "ScheißKanacken" Täter: "Ich bin Deutscher,ich bin in Deutschland geboren, in einer HARZ4-Gegend" Anwohner:"Du bleder Hund du" Täter: "Ich war auch in stationärer Behandlung" Anwohner:"Ja Behandlung, du gehörst in die Psychatrie du Arschloch, du blödes" Täter: "Ich hab nix getan...halten sie die Schnauze man"
quick translation: neighbour: You asshole, you dog you stupid you wanker shooter: Because of you I was mobbed, for seven years neighbour: You are an asshole shooter: And now I have to buy a weapon to shoot you all down neighbour: Ah wepons? You should get your skull crushed you asshole ... neighbour: He has a weapon, he has it loaded, someone call the cops, get that guy down (from the roof) shooter: Fuck turks neighbour: Fucking Kanake (sth like a slur, immigrant from south) shooter: I am a german, I'm born in germany, in a HARTZ4 area (meaning lots of people without jobs living on welfare) neighbour: You stupid dog you shooter: I was in hospital treatment as well neighbour: Yes, treatment, you should be in the psychiatric ward, you asshole you stupid shooter: I didn't do anything, shut up man (in the polite form lol)
then the camera guy ducks down and you can hear some shots
Anwohner: "Du A***,du Hund, du bleder, du W***" Täter: "wegen euch wurde ich gemobbt, sieben jahre lang" Anwohner: "Du bist ein Arschloch" Täter: "und jetzt musst ich ne waffe kaufen, um euch alle abzuknallen"..." Anwohner:"ah Waffen?Dir gehört der Schädl eingschlogn du Arschloch" "...." Anwohner: "Der hat ne Waffe, der seine Waffe geladen, hol einer die Bullen, hol den einer da runter" Täter:"Scheiß Türken" Anwohner: "ScheißKanacken" Täter: "Ich bin Deutscher,ich bin in Deutschland geboren, in einer HARZ4-Gegend" Anwohner:"Du bleder Hund du" Täter: "Ich war auch in stationärer Behandlung" Anwohner:"Ja Behandlung, du gehörst in die Psychatrie du Arschloch, du blödes" Täter: "Ich hab nix getan...halten sie die Schnauze man"
quick translation: neighbour: You asshole, you dog you stupid you wanker shooter: Because of you I was mobbed, for seven years neighbour: You are an asshole shooter: And now I have to buy a weapon to shoot you all down neighbour: Ah wepons? You should get your skull crushed you asshole ... neighbour: He has a weapon, he has it loaded, someone call the cops, get that guy down (from the roof) shooter: Fuck turks neighbour: Fucking Kanake (sth like a slur, immigrant from south) shooter: I am a german, I'm born in germany, in a HARTZ4 area (meaning lots of people without jobs living on welfare) neighbour: You stupid dog you shooter: I was in hospital treatment as well neighbour: Yes, treatment, you should be in the psychiatric ward, you asshole you stupid shooter: I didn't do anything, shut up man (in the polite form lol)
The video is sooooooooo weird. The guy on the parking lot really sounds deranged. And the guy shouting insults in thickest Bavarian accent on top. It's so unreal.
Anwohner: "Du A***,du Hund, du bleder, du W***" Täter: "wegen euch wurde ich gemobbt, sieben jahre lang" Anwohner: "Du bist ein Arschloch" Täter: "und jetzt musst ich ne waffe kaufen, um euch alle abzuknallen"..." Anwohner:"ah Waffen?Dir gehört der Schädl eingschlogn du Arschloch" "...." Anwohner: "Der hat ne Waffe, der seine Waffe geladen, hol einer die Bullen, hol den einer da runter" Täter:"Scheiß Türken" Anwohner: "ScheißKanacken" Täter: "Ich bin Deutscher,ich bin in Deutschland geboren, in einer HARZ4-Gegend" Anwohner:"Du bleder Hund du" Täter: "Ich war auch in stationärer Behandlung" Anwohner:"Ja Behandlung, du gehörst in die Psychatrie du Arschloch, du blödes" Täter: "Ich hab nix getan...halten sie die Schnauze man"
quick translation: neighbour: You asshole, you dog you stupid you wanker shooter: Because of you I was mobbed, for seven years neighbour: You are an asshole shooter: And now I have to buy a weapon to shoot you all down neighbour: Ah wepons? You should get your skull crushed you asshole ... neighbour: He has a weapon, he has it loaded, someone call the cops, get that guy down (from the roof) shooter: Fuck turks neighbour: Fucking Kanake (sth like a slur, immigrant from south) shooter: I am a german, I'm born in germany, in a HARTZ4 area (meaning lots of people without jobs living on welfare) neighbour: You stupid dog you shooter: I was in hospital treatment as well neighbour: Yes, treatment, you should be in the psychiatric ward, you asshole you stupid shooter: I didn't do anything, shut up man (in the polite form lol)
The video is sooooooooo weird. The guy on the parking lot really sounds deranged.
He might ... With the kind of event we've had in the last month in the world at large, it's no surprise that such deranged man start doing this kind of shit ...
Anwohner: "Du A***,du Hund, du bleder, du W***" Täter: "wegen euch wurde ich gemobbt, sieben jahre lang" Anwohner: "Du bist ein Arschloch" Täter: "und jetzt musst ich ne waffe kaufen, um euch alle abzuknallen"..." Anwohner:"ah Waffen?Dir gehört der Schädl eingschlogn du Arschloch" "...." Anwohner: "Der hat ne Waffe, der seine Waffe geladen, hol einer die Bullen, hol den einer da runter" Täter:"Scheiß Türken" Anwohner: "ScheißKanacken" Täter: "Ich bin Deutscher,ich bin in Deutschland geboren, in einer HARZ4-Gegend" Anwohner:"Du bleder Hund du" Täter: "Ich war auch in stationärer Behandlung" Anwohner:"Ja Behandlung, du gehörst in die Psychatrie du Arschloch, du blödes" Täter: "Ich hab nix getan...halten sie die Schnauze man"
quick translation: neighbour: You asshole, you dog you stupid you wanker shooter: Because of you I was mobbed, for seven years neighbour: You are an asshole shooter: And now I have to buy a weapon to shoot you all down neighbour: Ah wepons? You should get your skull crushed you asshole ... neighbour: He has a weapon, he has it loaded, someone call the cops, get that guy down (from the roof) shooter: Fuck turks neighbour: Fucking Kanake (sth like a slur, immigrant from south) shooter: I am a german, I'm born in germany, in a HARTZ4 area (meaning lots of people without jobs living on welfare) neighbour: You stupid dog you shooter: I was in hospital treatment as well neighbour: Yes, treatment, you should be in the psychiatric ward, you asshole you stupid shooter: I didn't do anything, shut up man (in the polite form lol)
The video is sooooooooo weird. The guy on the parking lot really sounds deranged.
Yea, it's the same guy from in front of the McDonalds, judging from the clothes he's wearing. My first thoughts, when I saw that close up from the McDonalds, was that he looked like the classic chubby mobbing victim. My best bet is, it's Breivik fanboys.
Also lol @ ARD, can't roll a simple Youtube-video.
On July 23 2016 04:59 WhiteDog wrote: People are more and more tired about those killings, whoever is the perpetrator. On all the place I read things, the comments are way more belligerant than before. If things go on, politics will have to do something significant.
hollande called the 9k reserve force, we are saved
Anwohner: "Du A***,du Hund, du bleder, du W***" Täter: "wegen euch wurde ich gemobbt, sieben jahre lang" Anwohner: "Du bist ein Arschloch" Täter: "und jetzt musst ich ne waffe kaufen, um euch alle abzuknallen"..." Anwohner:"ah Waffen?Dir gehört der Schädl eingschlogn du Arschloch" "...." Anwohner: "Der hat ne Waffe, der seine Waffe geladen, hol einer die Bullen, hol den einer da runter" Täter:"Scheiß Türken" Anwohner: "ScheißKanacken" Täter: "Ich bin Deutscher,ich bin in Deutschland geboren, in einer HARZ4-Gegend" Anwohner:"Du bleder Hund du" Täter: "Ich war auch in stationärer Behandlung" Anwohner:"Ja Behandlung, du gehörst in die Psychatrie du Arschloch, du blödes" Täter: "Ich hab nix getan...halten sie die Schnauze man"
quick translation: neighbour: You asshole, you dog you stupid you wanker shooter: Because of you I was mobbed, for seven years neighbour: You are an asshole shooter: And now I have to buy a weapon to shoot you all down neighbour: Ah wepons? You should get your skull crushed you asshole ... neighbour: He has a weapon, he has it loaded, someone call the cops, get that guy down (from the roof) shooter: Fuck turks neighbour: Fucking Kanake (sth like a slur, immigrant from south) shooter: I am a german, I'm born in germany, in a HARTZ4 area (meaning lots of people without jobs living on welfare) neighbour: You stupid dog you shooter: I was in hospital treatment as well neighbour: Yes, treatment, you should be in the psychiatric ward, you asshole you stupid shooter: I didn't do anything, shut up man (in the polite form lol)
The video is sooooooooo weird. The guy on the parking lot really sounds deranged.
Yea, it's the same guy from in front of the McDonalds, judging from the clothes he's wearing. My first thoughts, when I saw that close up from the McDonalds, was that he looked like the classic chubby mobbing victim. My best bet is, it's Breivik fanboys.
Also lol @ ARD, can't roll a simple Youtube-video.
That's what I think as well, exactly 5 years later.
On July 23 2016 04:59 WhiteDog wrote: People are more and more tired about those killings, whoever is the perpetrator. On all the place I read things, the comments are way more belligerant than before. If things go on, politics will have to do something significant.
hollande called the 9k reserve force, we are saved
Thank God for Hollande!
What a fucking piece of shit holy lmao
I think I'd spit on him if he were in front of me
I was wondering, why is he so hated?
He is the worst President in our history, and it is a feat after Sarkozy who was another dipshit.
Anwohner: "Du A***,du Hund, du bleder, du W***" Täter: "wegen euch wurde ich gemobbt, sieben jahre lang" Anwohner: "Du bist ein Arschloch" Täter: "und jetzt musst ich ne waffe kaufen, um euch alle abzuknallen"..." Anwohner:"ah Waffen?Dir gehört der Schädl eingschlogn du Arschloch" "...." Anwohner: "Der hat ne Waffe, der seine Waffe geladen, hol einer die Bullen, hol den einer da runter" Täter:"Scheiß Türken" Anwohner: "ScheißKanacken" Täter: "Ich bin Deutscher,ich bin in Deutschland geboren, in einer HARZ4-Gegend" Anwohner:"Du bleder Hund du" Täter: "Ich war auch in stationärer Behandlung" Anwohner:"Ja Behandlung, du gehörst in die Psychatrie du Arschloch, du blödes" Täter: "Ich hab nix getan...halten sie die Schnauze man"
quick translation: neighbour: You asshole, you dog you stupid you wanker shooter: Because of you I was mobbed, for seven years neighbour: You are an asshole shooter: And now I have to buy a weapon to shoot you all down neighbour: Ah wepons? You should get your skull crushed you asshole ... neighbour: He has a weapon, he has it loaded, someone call the cops, get that guy down (from the roof) shooter: Fuck turks neighbour: Fucking Kanake (sth like a slur, immigrant from south) shooter: I am a german, I'm born in germany, in a HARTZ4 area (meaning lots of people without jobs living on welfare) neighbour: You stupid dog you shooter: I was in hospital treatment as well neighbour: Yes, treatment, you should be in the psychiatric ward, you asshole you stupid shooter: I didn't do anything, shut up man (in the polite form lol)
The video is sooooooooo weird. The guy on the parking lot really sounds deranged. And the guy shouting insults in thickest Bavarian accent on top. It's so unreal.
It reminds me way too much of the Monty Python and the Holy Grail scene xD
Really makes you think, those poor Germans being born in ghettos, unemployed young men with nothing to do always last on the welfare check list. No wonder they become radicalized and hate society. I think we can solve this problem with twitter hashtags and by not doing anything about the actual problem. You should also import more poor white people who may or may not become skinheads.
On July 23 2016 03:43 NihiLStarcraft wrote: [quote]
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
He's right to.
It's not ethnic cleansing as much as it's making sure that all people in society have common values.
My grandfather visited today and he took out his pocket knife and showed it to me as we were on the couch together. He explained what a German person had once told him on how to properly sharpen a knife. I just realized that I was chill on the couch with my grandfather while he had a lethal weapon in his hand. I realized it was perfectly fine because I've known my grandfather my entire life.
You replace him with someone else, then I'd not be as comfortable seeing a sharp knife so close to me.
You replace him with someone who is known for violence and who doesn't agree with the values I have (secularism, free speech, women aren't to be treated like shit, etc.), then I'm going to nope the fuck away from that couch.
It's the same thing with firearms. amazingxkcd is explaining how he's more than fine living in harmony with people who he can trust easily, even if they're armed with firearms. Fuck's sake. I'm Ok with walking on a side-walk even if 10 trucks pass me during the walk, because I know the trucker drivers are sane people who aren't planning mass murder. Trucks aren't the problem, firearms aren't the problem. People are the problem and that is what amazingxkcd is explaining.
Obviously not all Muslims are like this and also statistically speaking the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are low. That's why most people don't actually support extreme right wing parties or actual segregation and whatnot. However equally stupid would be pretending that there isn't a problem. I agree with amazingxkcd, I'd rather see problem people leave than give up my right to own firearms. 110% agree.
What are you on about? "remove kebab" is a stupid meme about ethnically cleansing muslim bosniaks or muslims in general. It's not about fucking living in harmony with your neighbour or whatever the fuck you just wrote.
I would have taken it just as shitposting a stupid meme until his second post... :S
Ah right, that's what "remove kebab" means. I literally thought he was insane and hates food. Why is this guy even allowed to say this scot free? I would imagine that any other forum member ehich decided to advocate ethnic cleansing would be instabanned.
does my political views hamper my esports work?
Advocating ethnically cleansing Muslim is not really something I hear around the office that much, tbh. I think we would let someone go, no matter how good they were at their job.
I don't know what you mean by "ethnically cleansing", but radical islam is definitely a problem that the world could do more about. Let's wait and see if shooter is indeed muslim before we discuss such topics.
The meme in question is about murdering ALL Muslims. All of them. Not just the radical ones. Every single one. Like genocide.
oh, it is?
should have updated my meme database lol. only reference to "remove kebab" i remember is poland ball :/
More or less, see above for a more precise translation.
Of course, most of the absurdity of the dialogue gets lost in translation. It really doesn't sound like a scene from the real world.
Why would you say that? That's two haters speaking to each other, sounds pretty normal to me..
Because as we know, usually one of the haters just killed 8 people, then loads his gun and shoots at the other hater while he's still continuing to shout at the first one.
Yeah. Don't know what world you live in where that is normal.
More or less, see above for a more precise translation.
Of course, most of the absurdity of the dialogue gets lost in translation. It really doesn't sound like a scene from the real world.
Why would you say that? That's two haters speaking to each other, sounds pretty normal to me..
Because as we know, usually one of the haters just killed 8 people, then loads his gun and shoots at the other hater while he's still continuing to shout at the first one.
Yeah. Don't know what world you live in where that is normal.
I didn't mean the actions during or after the dialogue but the dialogue itself...
More or less, see above for a more precise translation.
Of course, most of the absurdity of the dialogue gets lost in translation. It really doesn't sound like a scene from the real world.
Why would you say that? That's two haters speaking to each other, sounds pretty normal to me..
Because as we know, usually one of the haters just killed 8 people, then loads his gun and shoots at the other hater while he's still continuing to shout at the first one.
Yeah. Don't know what world you live in where that is normal.
I didn't mean the actions during or after the dialogue but the dialogue itself...
Yeah, that's two people arguing with each other, which is fucking absurd considering the situation.
More or less, see above for a more precise translation.
Of course, most of the absurdity of the dialogue gets lost in translation. It really doesn't sound like a scene from the real world.
Why would you say that? That's two haters speaking to each other, sounds pretty normal to me..
Because as we know, usually one of the haters just killed 8 people, then loads his gun and shoots at the other hater while he's still continuing to shout at the first one.
Yeah. Don't know what world you live in where that is normal.
I didn't mean the actions during or after the dialogue but the dialogue itself...
Maybe you should lay off the internet for a while. There's nothing normal about a dude crying about how he was in therapy for being bullied and thus has to buy a gun to shoot people.
More or less, see above for a more precise translation.
Of course, most of the absurdity of the dialogue gets lost in translation. It really doesn't sound like a scene from the real world.
Why would you say that? That's two haters speaking to each other, sounds pretty normal to me..
Because as we know, usually one of the haters just killed 8 people, then loads his gun and shoots at the other hater while he's still continuing to shout at the first one.
Yeah. Don't know what world you live in where that is normal.
I didn't mean the actions during or after the dialogue but the dialogue itself...
Yeah, that's two people arguing with each other, which is fucking absurd considering the situation.
the fact that the shooter didn't even shoot towards him fascinate me really
More or less, see above for a more precise translation.
Of course, most of the absurdity of the dialogue gets lost in translation. It really doesn't sound like a scene from the real world.
Why would you say that? That's two haters speaking to each other, sounds pretty normal to me..
Because as we know, usually one of the haters just killed 8 people, then loads his gun and shoots at the other hater while he's still continuing to shout at the first one.
Yeah. Don't know what world you live in where that is normal.
I didn't mean the actions during or after the dialogue but the dialogue itself...
Yeah, that's two people arguing with each other, which is fucking absurd considering the situation.
the fact that the shooter didn't even shoot towards him fascinate me really
Can't tell actually, he did shoot when the russian guy (i think it's the cameraman) went into cover. No idea at what though.
But that it took so long is really weird, you're right. I can't imagine a "normal" (as if a shooter is normal, but you know what i mean i guess) person starting a dialogue with someone on how he went into therapy, was bullied n shit after just killing so many people.
This neighbour has balls of steel. Still hurling insults whilst being shot at. But if the shooter is indeed the shooter, he is clearly not rational and is delusional and it should be examined why and how he has been manipulated to acting in this way in the same manner as we do to all forms of mass murder.
More or less, see above for a more precise translation.
Of course, most of the absurdity of the dialogue gets lost in translation. It really doesn't sound like a scene from the real world.
Why would you say that? That's two haters speaking to each other, sounds pretty normal to me..
Because as we know, usually one of the haters just killed 8 people, then loads his gun and shoots at the other hater while he's still continuing to shout at the first one.
Yeah. Don't know what world you live in where that is normal.
I didn't mean the actions during or after the dialogue but the dialogue itself...
Maybe you should lay off the internet for a while. There's nothing normal about a dude crying about how he was in therapy for being bullied and thus has to buy a gun to shoot people.
Maybe you should do that and actually go outside and listen to what people are saying on the streets, on the bus,...
On July 23 2016 05:51 zatic wrote: TV here reports one attacker dead, no further details though.
Update: The shooter from the McDonnalds video thought dead. Body in matching clothes spotted in a park nearby, police are sending a bomb defusal bot first since he is carrying a big backpack and they are concerned about a bomb.
On July 23 2016 06:11 Dangermousecatdog wrote: This neighbour has balls of steel. Still hurling insults whilst being shot at. But if the shooter is indeed the shooter, he is clearly not rational and is delusional and it should be examined why and how he has been manipulated to acting in this way in the same manner as we do to all forms of mass murder.
There are such people everywhere. In Nice, a random civilian jumped on the truck and tried to force the terrorist dick to stop.
More or less, see above for a more precise translation.
Of course, most of the absurdity of the dialogue gets lost in translation. It really doesn't sound like a scene from the real world.
Why would you say that? That's two haters speaking to each other, sounds pretty normal to me..
Because as we know, usually one of the haters just killed 8 people, then loads his gun and shoots at the other hater while he's still continuing to shout at the first one.
Yeah. Don't know what world you live in where that is normal.
I didn't mean the actions during or after the dialogue but the dialogue itself...
Maybe you should lay off the internet for a while. There's nothing normal about a dude crying about how he was in therapy for being bullied and thus has to buy a gun to shoot people.
Maybe you should do that and actually go outside and listen to what people are saying on the streets, on the bus,...
Decent advice but I rarely hear English where I live. So I can't understand shite. I should really learn the languages to assimilate with the locals more.
On July 23 2016 06:11 Dangermousecatdog wrote: This neighbour has balls of steel. Still hurling insults whilst being shot at. But if the shooter is indeed the shooter, he is clearly not rational and is delusional and it should be examined why and how he has been manipulated to acting in this way in the same manner as we do to all forms of mass murder.
There are such people everywhere. In Nice, a random civilian jumped on the truck and tried to force the terrorist dick to stop.
That's brave.
The shouter seems less brave, more angry. A bit like a grumpy old pensioner - not brave, but incredibly angry at that guy, didn't even take a break of his tirade while being shot at.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
He's right to.
It's not ethnic cleansing as much as it's making sure that all people in society have common values.
My grandfather visited today and he took out his pocket knife and showed it to me as we were on the couch together. He explained what a German person had once told him on how to properly sharpen a knife. I just realized that I was chill on the couch with my grandfather while he had a lethal weapon in his hand. I realized it was perfectly fine because I've known my grandfather my entire life.
You replace him with someone else, then I'd not be as comfortable seeing a sharp knife so close to me.
You replace him with someone who is known for violence and who doesn't agree with the values I have (secularism, free speech, women aren't to be treated like shit, etc.), then I'm going to nope the fuck away from that couch.
It's the same thing with firearms. amazingxkcd is explaining how he's more than fine living in harmony with people who he can trust easily, even if they're armed with firearms. Fuck's sake. I'm Ok with walking on a side-walk even if 10 trucks pass me during the walk, because I know the trucker drivers are sane people who aren't planning mass murder. Trucks aren't the problem, firearms aren't the problem. People are the problem and that is what amazingxkcd is explaining.
Obviously not all Muslims are like this and also statistically speaking the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are low. That's why most people don't actually support extreme right wing parties or actual segregation and whatnot. However equally stupid would be pretending that there isn't a problem. I agree with amazingxkcd, I'd rather see problem people leave than give up my right to own firearms. 110% agree.
What are you on about? "remove kebab" is a stupid meme about ethnically cleansing muslim bosniaks or muslims in general. It's not about fucking living in harmony with your neighbour or whatever the fuck you just wrote.
I would have taken it just as shitposting a stupid meme until his second post... :S
Ah right, that's what "remove kebab" means. I literally thought he was insane and hates food. Why is this guy even allowed to say this scot free? I would imagine that any other forum member ehich decided to advocate ethnic cleansing would be instabanned.
does my political views hamper my esports work?
Advocating ethnically cleansing Muslim is not really something I hear around the office that much, tbh. I think we would let someone go, no matter how good they were at their job.
I don't know what you mean by "ethnically cleansing", but radical islam is definitely a problem that the world could do more about. Let's wait and see if shooter is indeed muslim before we discuss such topics.
The meme in question is about murdering ALL Muslims. All of them. Not just the radical ones. Every single one. Like genocide.
oh, it is?
should have updated my meme database lol. only reference to "remove kebab" i remember is poland ball :/
i was making reference to poland ball but if you think i want to genocide all arabs rather than just deport them back to their home countries and leave them alone then we should go out for coffee and have a nice chit chat. I could use some coffee now
in any case, i do hope that the innocent civilians in munich stay safe and not die at the hands of these shooters
More or less, see above for a more precise translation.
Of course, most of the absurdity of the dialogue gets lost in translation. It really doesn't sound like a scene from the real world.
Why would you say that? That's two haters speaking to each other, sounds pretty normal to me..
Because as we know, usually one of the haters just killed 8 people, then loads his gun and shoots at the other hater while he's still continuing to shout at the first one.
Yeah. Don't know what world you live in where that is normal.
I didn't mean the actions during or after the dialogue but the dialogue itself...
Maybe you should lay off the internet for a while. There's nothing normal about a dude crying about how he was in therapy for being bullied and thus has to buy a gun to shoot people.
Maybe you should do that and actually go outside and listen to what people are saying on the streets, on the bus,...
And what pray tell do they say? It certainly isn't that, and if it is, I suggest you evacuate you and your fellow passengers off said bus before well, events like this happen to you personally.
On July 23 2016 04:31 REDBLUEGREEN wrote: [quote] Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
He's right to.
It's not ethnic cleansing as much as it's making sure that all people in society have common values.
My grandfather visited today and he took out his pocket knife and showed it to me as we were on the couch together. He explained what a German person had once told him on how to properly sharpen a knife. I just realized that I was chill on the couch with my grandfather while he had a lethal weapon in his hand. I realized it was perfectly fine because I've known my grandfather my entire life.
You replace him with someone else, then I'd not be as comfortable seeing a sharp knife so close to me.
You replace him with someone who is known for violence and who doesn't agree with the values I have (secularism, free speech, women aren't to be treated like shit, etc.), then I'm going to nope the fuck away from that couch.
It's the same thing with firearms. amazingxkcd is explaining how he's more than fine living in harmony with people who he can trust easily, even if they're armed with firearms. Fuck's sake. I'm Ok with walking on a side-walk even if 10 trucks pass me during the walk, because I know the trucker drivers are sane people who aren't planning mass murder. Trucks aren't the problem, firearms aren't the problem. People are the problem and that is what amazingxkcd is explaining.
Obviously not all Muslims are like this and also statistically speaking the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are low. That's why most people don't actually support extreme right wing parties or actual segregation and whatnot. However equally stupid would be pretending that there isn't a problem. I agree with amazingxkcd, I'd rather see problem people leave than give up my right to own firearms. 110% agree.
What are you on about? "remove kebab" is a stupid meme about ethnically cleansing muslim bosniaks or muslims in general. It's not about fucking living in harmony with your neighbour or whatever the fuck you just wrote.
I would have taken it just as shitposting a stupid meme until his second post... :S
Ah right, that's what "remove kebab" means. I literally thought he was insane and hates food. Why is this guy even allowed to say this scot free? I would imagine that any other forum member ehich decided to advocate ethnic cleansing would be instabanned.
does my political views hamper my esports work?
Advocating ethnically cleansing Muslim is not really something I hear around the office that much, tbh. I think we would let someone go, no matter how good they were at their job.
I don't know what you mean by "ethnically cleansing", but radical islam is definitely a problem that the world could do more about. Let's wait and see if shooter is indeed muslim before we discuss such topics.
The meme in question is about murdering ALL Muslims. All of them. Not just the radical ones. Every single one. Like genocide.
oh, it is?
should have updated my meme database lol. only reference to "remove kebab" i remember is poland ball :/
i was making reference to poland ball but if you think i want to genocide all arabs rather than just deport them back to their home countries and leave them alone then we should go out for coffee and have a nice chit chat. I could use some coffee now
Yeah, deporting all arabs seems so much more reasonable. You're a reasonable guy after all.
Muslim eyewitness heard "Allahu Akbar" A Muslim woman, named by CNN as Lauretta, told the channel she heard the gunmen shout "Allahu Akbar" as they shot children.
I know this because I am a Muslim.
I saw the shooting of children, who were sitting down to eat. They could not run.
More or less, see above for a more precise translation.
Of course, most of the absurdity of the dialogue gets lost in translation. It really doesn't sound like a scene from the real world.
Why would you say that? That's two haters speaking to each other, sounds pretty normal to me..
Because as we know, usually one of the haters just killed 8 people, then loads his gun and shoots at the other hater while he's still continuing to shout at the first one.
Yeah. Don't know what world you live in where that is normal.
I didn't mean the actions during or after the dialogue but the dialogue itself...
Maybe you should lay off the internet for a while. There's nothing normal about a dude crying about how he was in therapy for being bullied and thus has to buy a gun to shoot people.
Maybe you should do that and actually go outside and listen to what people are saying on the streets, on the bus,...
And what pray tell do they say? It certainly isn't that, and if it is, I suggest you evacuate you and your fellow passengers off said bus before well, events like this happen to you personally.
If I had left the bus each time I heard psychopath-wannabes talking I couldn't do anything in life...
More or less, see above for a more precise translation.
Of course, most of the absurdity of the dialogue gets lost in translation. It really doesn't sound like a scene from the real world.
Why would you say that? That's two haters speaking to each other, sounds pretty normal to me..
Because as we know, usually one of the haters just killed 8 people, then loads his gun and shoots at the other hater while he's still continuing to shout at the first one.
Yeah. Don't know what world you live in where that is normal.
I didn't mean the actions during or after the dialogue but the dialogue itself...
Maybe you should lay off the internet for a while. There's nothing normal about a dude crying about how he was in therapy for being bullied and thus has to buy a gun to shoot people.
Maybe you should do that and actually go outside and listen to what people are saying on the streets, on the bus,...
I've never heard random people in the streets or anywhere else in the public have a conversation like this. Yes, people use the words you can hear in that video all the time, but rarely is it completely serious and if so, it's not about shooting people. Where the fuck do you live, Sudan?
On July 23 2016 06:11 Dangermousecatdog wrote: This neighbour has balls of steel. Still hurling insults whilst being shot at. But if the shooter is indeed the shooter, he is clearly not rational and is delusional and it should be examined why and how he has been manipulated to acting in this way in the same manner as we do to all forms of mass murder.
There are such people everywhere. In Nice, a random civilian jumped on the truck and tried to force the terrorist dick to stop.
I am just expression admiration. Afterall, I would like to think I too would have the bravery and mental fortitude for such actions, but hopefully the circumstances which must occur for us to test and display such heroism as the Nice biker will never happen to one of us. Afterall, no matter what we think about ourself, out of many, only one was brave enough and in the right position to attempt to do so.
On July 23 2016 06:11 Dangermousecatdog wrote: This neighbour has balls of steel. Still hurling insults whilst being shot at. But if the shooter is indeed the shooter, he is clearly not rational and is delusional and it should be examined why and how he has been manipulated to acting in this way in the same manner as we do to all forms of mass murder.
There are such people everywhere. In Nice, a random civilian jumped on the truck and tried to force the terrorist dick to stop.
I am just expression admiration. Afterall, I would like to think I too would have the bravery and mental fortitude for such actions, but hopefully the circumstances which must occur for us to test and display such heroism as the Nice biker will never happen to one of us. Afterall, no matter what we think about ourself, out of many, only one was brave enough and in the right position to attempt to do so.
I'm pretty convinced i wouldn't. I can be that honest to myself.
I don't consider myself a coward, but bravery is only one step away from stupidity, and i'm not sure i'd be able to tell the difference.
I missed that story about Nice biker, how did he try to stop the truck?
Afaik he jumped on the truck and tried to pull the driver out - a distraction which policemen used to kill the driver.
On July 23 2016 06:31 [DUF]MethodMan wrote: Apparently another scene of shooting in Munich. Unconfirmed though.
Where?
Didn't say where, just right now on state TV the interviewer got told by his production team, another shooting was being reported, so he asked the police officer who he was interviewing about it, but he didn't know.
Police says, they're pretty sure about the body in the park being the guy shooting in front of the McDonalds. They're trying to remove his backpack with robotic units in fear of a bomb.
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
Straight up racism when nobody even knows any details yet. And you can't be reported because of mod status(?). Nice.
ill retact this comment if the shooter isnt a muslim
Dude are you fucking serious? Think about what you are saying here, you prefer ethnic cleansing over giving up your guns? Actually very close to emailing Afreeca...
He's right to.
It's not ethnic cleansing as much as it's making sure that all people in society have common values.
My grandfather visited today and he took out his pocket knife and showed it to me as we were on the couch together. He explained what a German person had once told him on how to properly sharpen a knife. I just realized that I was chill on the couch with my grandfather while he had a lethal weapon in his hand. I realized it was perfectly fine because I've known my grandfather my entire life.
You replace him with someone else, then I'd not be as comfortable seeing a sharp knife so close to me.
You replace him with someone who is known for violence and who doesn't agree with the values I have (secularism, free speech, women aren't to be treated like shit, etc.), then I'm going to nope the fuck away from that couch.
It's the same thing with firearms. amazingxkcd is explaining how he's more than fine living in harmony with people who he can trust easily, even if they're armed with firearms. Fuck's sake. I'm Ok with walking on a side-walk even if 10 trucks pass me during the walk, because I know the trucker drivers are sane people who aren't planning mass murder. Trucks aren't the problem, firearms aren't the problem. People are the problem and that is what amazingxkcd is explaining.
Obviously not all Muslims are like this and also statistically speaking the chances of dying to a terrorist attack are low. That's why most people don't actually support extreme right wing parties or actual segregation and whatnot. However equally stupid would be pretending that there isn't a problem. I agree with amazingxkcd, I'd rather see problem people leave than give up my right to own firearms. 110% agree.
So what you are saying is if you don't feel comfortable with someone if you are standing next to them and they have a gun they should be removed? The problem with the it's people argument is that the only way that gets anything done is remove entire populations of people because it's pretty hard to determine until they actually act if someone will commit a heinous act. Statistically in America at least, most mass shootings are done by white males. What if that makes me uncomfortable. Should I call for the removal of all white males from America? No, because I am a rational human being who recognizes the vast vast vast majority of white males won't partake in a mass shooting.
On July 23 2016 07:11 NukeD wrote: So radical islamists or not?
Non-credible sources. I repeat, non-credible sources: Video of man shouting at / to a shooter.
ISIS taking responsibility. Account is now suspended. I can't copy/paste the arabic into google translate so I don't even know if it's a completely unrelated tweet that's been doctored. Could be, "I'd like to wish a happy birthday to my mom" for all I know. + Show Spoiler +
Some witnesses report Allahu Akbar being said. Some tweets may about ISIS taking responsibility already with pictures of dead people shown in the tweet possibly German victims.
Man shooting at people outside of a McDonalds.
Some photos of men arrested that don't look German.
So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues these days. Right wing politics, fearmongering, terrorism seems to reign supreme all over the planet. I feel like we're going through an interesting period in world history.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
edit: at least the roof-video, if legit, points to that.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
The reason mental illness is used is because it's normally democrats shooting people. Without looking it up I'd ballpark it at 80% of shootings are done by Democrats. So they clearly can't be trusted with guns. There are instances of right wingers shooting people. But most shootings are democrats.
If you find a lily white town full of conservative christians, you can go decades without a shot hitting another person on purpose. Might be a boring town, but a peaceful way to spend your old years that's for sure.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues these days. Right wing politics, fearmongering, terrorism seems to reign supreme all over the planet. I feel like we're going through an interesting period in world history.
Yes we indeed are. We are entering the golden age according to Vedas. Only problem is, the world needs to purge itself from materialism first, which basically means world war 3. Just a heads up, if shit goes down the safest country for white people is Argentina. And im drunk.
I recommend not getting even your non-credible news from /pol/
But how is he supposed to get terrible, somewhat racist information really quickly? You can't wait for normal news to report on this stuff. You have to trust random kids on message boards.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
The reason mental illness is used is because it's normally democrats shooting people. Without looking it up I'd ballpark it at 80% of shootings are done by Democrats. So they clearly can't be trusted with guns. There are instances of right wingers shooting people. But most shootings are democrats.
If you find a lily white town full of conservative christians, you can go decades without a shot hitting another person on purpose. Might be a boring town, but a peaceful way to spend your old years that's for sure.
What the fuck are you talking about? You're not even American? Have you ever lived in this country?
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
The reason mental illness is used is because it's normally democrats shooting people. Without looking it up I'd ballpark it at 80% of shootings are done by Democrats. So they clearly can't be trusted with guns. There are instances of right wingers shooting people. But most shootings are democrats.
If you find a lily white town full of conservative christians, you can go decades without a shot hitting another person on purpose. Might be a boring town, but a peaceful way to spend your old years that's for sure.
What the fuck are you talking about? You're not even American? Have you ever lived in this country?
I think he tried to make a point because i generalized, which i didn't considering that literally every shooting that isn't committed by a brown person gets labeled as a mentally ill person.
At least that's what i'm assuming. Needless to say that it failed.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
The reason mental illness is used is because it's normally democrats shooting people. Without looking it up I'd ballpark it at 80% of shootings are done by Democrats. So they clearly can't be trusted with guns. There are instances of right wingers shooting people. But most shootings are democrats.
If you find a lily white town full of conservative christians, you can go decades without a shot hitting another person on purpose. Might be a boring town, but a peaceful way to spend your old years that's for sure.
What the fuck are you talking about? You're not even American? Have you ever lived in this country?
Please refrain from further posting in this forum.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
The reason mental illness is used is because it's normally democrats shooting people. Without looking it up I'd ballpark it at 80% of shootings are done by Democrats. So they clearly can't be trusted with guns. There are instances of right wingers shooting people. But most shootings are democrats.
If you find a lily white town full of conservative christians, you can go decades without a shot hitting another person on purpose. Might be a boring town, but a peaceful way to spend your old years that's for sure.
What the fuck are you talking about? You're not even American? Have you ever lived in this country?
80% of shootings done by Democrats. Another at least (supposedly giving his posting history) 80% done by Muslims. Maybe he grew up in Russia learning maths from Putin!
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
On July 23 2016 07:32 Plansix wrote: What the fuck are you talking about? You're not even American? Have you ever lived in this country?
This particular incident seems a high likelihood of a neo-nazi or something to that effect.
On America... what are racial demographics and voting patterns for $400 Alex? How many white conservative Christians do you think are shooting people in your cities? Is it comparable or a false equivalency to say it's 50/50? I think you already know the voting stats. + Show Spoiler +
2274 shot. What % of them were going to vote democrat I wonder.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
They're not mutually exclusive. It's quite possible that the perp is some form of victim, too. That doesn't justify anything, and isn't meant to. And of course no one should feel bad for him. But failing to realize that he could be a victim of sorts too, prevents you from actually learning and preventing the next attack.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
Do you not see a patern here in the past few years? Mentally ill or not its very indicative that the mass shootings are happening now in context of all the other shootings. This is by no means an isolated occurence however much you want it to be.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
Some tragedy have no culprit.
In the face of any tragedy, caused by humans or random chance, we should try to be the best versions of ourselves. Rather than the worst and most self serving.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
They're not mutually exclusive. It's quite possible that the perp is some form of victim, too. That doesn't justify anything, and isn't meant to. And of course no one should feel bad for him. But failing to realize that he could be a victim of sorts too, prevents you from actually learning and preventing the next attack.
I was being sarcastic. I agree with everything you just said.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
They're not mutually exclusive. It's quite possible that the perp is some form of victim, too. That doesn't justify anything, and isn't meant to. And of course no one should feel bad for him. But failing to realize that he could be a victim of sorts too, prevents you from actually learning and preventing the next attack.
I was being sarcastic. I agree with everything you just said.
On July 23 2016 07:32 Plansix wrote: What the fuck are you talking about? You're not even American? Have you ever lived in this country?
This particular incident seems a high likelihood of a neo-nazi or something to that effect.
On America... what are racial demographics and voting patterns for $400 Alex? How many white conservative Christians do you think are shooting people in your cities? Is it comparable or a false equivalency to say it's 50/50? I think you already know the voting stats.
Please, this is not the place. 5000 km of Atlantic ocean seperates the gun politics of the respective countries. Take it to the gun control thread.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
Some tragedy have no culprit.
In the face of any tragedy, caused by humans or random chance, we should try to be the best versions of ourselves. Rather than the worst and most self serving.
Cool ill have that written on my tombstone when i get bombed to pieces by another radicalized islamist who has not been so mentally stable for the past few years.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
They're not mutually exclusive. It's quite possible that the perp is some form of victim, too. That doesn't justify anything, and isn't meant to. And of course no one should feel bad for him. But failing to realize that he could be a victim of sorts too, prevents you from actually learning and preventing the next attack.
I was being sarcastic. I agree with everything you just said.
My bad then, misunderstood you.
Me too.
In the weeks after the event in France, there have been instances of mentally ill people attacking random people. It's clearly, in part, some kind of reaction to the context.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
The reason mental illness is used is because it's normally democrats shooting people. Without looking it up I'd ballpark it at 80% of shootings are done by Democrats. So they clearly can't be trusted with guns. There are instances of right wingers shooting people. But most shootings are democrats.
If you find a lily white town full of conservative christians, you can go decades without a shot hitting another person on purpose. Might be a boring town, but a peaceful way to spend your old years that's for sure.
What the fuck are you talking about? You're not even American? Have you ever lived in this country?
Please refrain from further posting in this forum.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
They're not mutually exclusive. It's quite possible that the perp is some form of victim, too. That doesn't justify anything, and isn't meant to. And of course no one should feel bad for him. But failing to realize that he could be a victim of sorts too, prevents you from actually learning and preventing the next attack.
I was being sarcastic. I agree with everything you just said.
My bad then, misunderstood you.
Me too.
In the weeks after the event in France, there have been instances of mentally ill people attacking random people. It's clearly, in part, some kind of reaction to the context as NukeD pointed out.
Sry, I am sometimes to heavy handed with the sarcasm. I just get irritated when someone shit on a person try to understand/show some sympathy for the mental state the killer would need to be in to commit those acts. Sure some of them are remorseless people. But sometimes they are just completed disasters who needed treatment more than anything else.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
The reason mental illness is used is because it's normally democrats shooting people. Without looking it up I'd ballpark it at 80% of shootings are done by Democrats. So they clearly can't be trusted with guns. There are instances of right wingers shooting people. But most shootings are democrats.
If you find a lily white town full of conservative christians, you can go decades without a shot hitting another person on purpose. Might be a boring town, but a peaceful way to spend your old years that's for sure.
What the fuck are you talking about? You're not even American? Have you ever lived in this country?
Please refrain from further posting in this forum.
Why? Testie is making shit up from nowhere.
Is he now? Please do retort his claims. Im eager to see it.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
The reason mental illness is used is because it's normally democrats shooting people. Without looking it up I'd ballpark it at 80% of shootings are done by Democrats. So they clearly can't be trusted with guns. There are instances of right wingers shooting people. But most shootings are democrats.
If you find a lily white town full of conservative christians, you can go decades without a shot hitting another person on purpose. Might be a boring town, but a peaceful way to spend your old years that's for sure.
What the fuck are you talking about? You're not even American? Have you ever lived in this country?
Please refrain from further posting in this forum.
Why? Testie is making shit up from nowhere.
Is he now? Please do retort his claims. Im eager to see it.
Wrong thread son. Please move it to the gun control thread where it belongs.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
They're not mutually exclusive. It's quite possible that the perp is some form of victim, too. That doesn't justify anything, and isn't meant to. And of course no one should feel bad for him. But failing to realize that he could be a victim of sorts too, prevents you from actually learning and preventing the next attack.
I was being sarcastic. I agree with everything you just said.
My bad then, misunderstood you.
Me too.
In the weeks after the event in France, there have been instances of mentally ill people attacking random people. It's clearly, in part, some kind of reaction to the context as NukeD pointed out.
Sry, I am sometimes to heavy handed with the sarcasm. I just get irritated when someone shit on a person try to understand/show some sympathy for the mental state the killer would need to be in to commit those acts. Sure some of them are remorseless people. But sometimes they are just completed disasters who needed treatment more than anything else.
So how domwe deal with these people? Do we do it post factum once they have killed numerous amount of innocent people or donwe handle the problem at its root?
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
They're not mutually exclusive. It's quite possible that the perp is some form of victim, too. That doesn't justify anything, and isn't meant to. And of course no one should feel bad for him. But failing to realize that he could be a victim of sorts too, prevents you from actually learning and preventing the next attack.
I was being sarcastic. I agree with everything you just said.
My bad then, misunderstood you.
Me too.
In the weeks after the event in France, there have been instances of mentally ill people attacking random people. It's clearly, in part, some kind of reaction to the context as NukeD pointed out.
Sry, I am sometimes to heavy handed with the sarcasm. I just get irritated when someone shit on a person try to understand/show some sympathy for the mental state the killer would need to be in to commit those acts. Sure some of them are remorseless people. But sometimes they are just completed disasters who needed treatment more than anything else.
So how domwe deal with these people? Do we do it post factum once they have killed numerous amount of innocent people or donwe handle the problem at its root?
There is a difference between a lone crazy man with a gun, and an organisation that plan various terrorist attacks, it's not the same problem and not the same response. If it is indeed just a mad man who killed those people, we can just pay our respect to the dead and try to do better with the living, the rest feel kinda pointless.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
They're not mutually exclusive. It's quite possible that the perp is some form of victim, too. That doesn't justify anything, and isn't meant to. And of course no one should feel bad for him. But failing to realize that he could be a victim of sorts too, prevents you from actually learning and preventing the next attack.
I was being sarcastic. I agree with everything you just said.
My bad then, misunderstood you.
Me too.
In the weeks after the event in France, there have been instances of mentally ill people attacking random people. It's clearly, in part, some kind of reaction to the context as NukeD pointed out.
Sry, I am sometimes to heavy handed with the sarcasm. I just get irritated when someone shit on a person try to understand/show some sympathy for the mental state the killer would need to be in to commit those acts. Sure some of them are remorseless people. But sometimes they are just completed disasters who needed treatment more than anything else.
So how domwe deal with these people? Do we do it post factum once they have killed numerous amount of innocent people or donwe handle the problem at its root?
Who are these people? Mentally ill people that commit violence? Get them treatment if you can. Find out how they slipped through the cracks of the system if they were in it. Try to see where the breaking point what for them. Where they got the weapon.
There is no "root" to the problem. That is the point. You can't just fix it with some magical solution. Every case and shooter is different. Even terrorist can be found before they commit terrorism and stopped.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
The reason mental illness is used is because it's normally democrats shooting people. Without looking it up I'd ballpark it at 80% of shootings are done by Democrats. So they clearly can't be trusted with guns. There are instances of right wingers shooting people. But most shootings are democrats.
If you find a lily white town full of conservative christians, you can go decades without a shot hitting another person on purpose. Might be a boring town, but a peaceful way to spend your old years that's for sure.
What the fuck are you talking about? You're not even American? Have you ever lived in this country?
Please refrain from further posting in this forum.
Why? Testie is making shit up from nowhere.
Is he now? Please do retort his claims. Im eager to see it.
Listen, if you're not interested in seeking truth but only in using unoriginal and uninteristing debate techniques that make you feel like you're a big man, I've nothing to tell you. I'll just advise you to be wary about people making up random numbers.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
Some tragedy have no culprit.
In the face of any tragedy, caused by humans or random chance, we should try to be the best versions of ourselves. Rather than the worst and most self serving.
Cool ill have that written on my tombstone when i get bombed to pieces by another radicalized islamist who has not been so mentally stable for the past few years.
There's no indication that this is an Islamic terrorist incident as of yet. But yeah, keep trying to be the best version of yourself you can be, rather than the worst.
On July 23 2016 07:31 Maenander wrote: [quote] If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
They're not mutually exclusive. It's quite possible that the perp is some form of victim, too. That doesn't justify anything, and isn't meant to. And of course no one should feel bad for him. But failing to realize that he could be a victim of sorts too, prevents you from actually learning and preventing the next attack.
I was being sarcastic. I agree with everything you just said.
My bad then, misunderstood you.
Me too.
In the weeks after the event in France, there have been instances of mentally ill people attacking random people. It's clearly, in part, some kind of reaction to the context as NukeD pointed out.
Sry, I am sometimes to heavy handed with the sarcasm. I just get irritated when someone shit on a person try to understand/show some sympathy for the mental state the killer would need to be in to commit those acts. Sure some of them are remorseless people. But sometimes they are just completed disasters who needed treatment more than anything else.
So how domwe deal with these people? Do we do it post factum once they have killed numerous amount of innocent people or donwe handle the problem at its root?
There is a difference between a lone crazy man with a gun, and an organisation that plan various terrorist attacks, it's not the same problem and not the same response. If it is indeed just a mad man who killed those people, we can just pay our respect to the dead and try to do better with the living, the rest feel kinda pointless.
Thats what im saying. I am seeing a pattern here. These insane people are getting empowered by the other mass killings. Make no mistake these people do justify the killings in their mind, we just percieve that justificafion as a result of a abnormally fuctioning brain. Im positive that these people have been insane for the past 20 years or whatever and isnt it quitte a remarkable coincidence that they commint the mass murders in the light of other mass murders in Europe. I am not willing to percieve this as an isolated case without the proof the person did not invoce any islamic values. If he did it is part of a bigger issue no matter how sane he was.
On July 23 2016 07:23 Bleak wrote: So which one will it be, snackbars or Nazis? Can't say any of them is preferable. Jokes aside, I hope noone else gets hurt and the situation is resolved quickly.
It's kinda funny, I used to think Turkey is going to shit with coup attempt, explosions and terrorist attacks, but for some reason I feel like whole World is having issues.
There's a third option. Commonly used as excuse by the americans.
Mental illness. Like.. actual mental illness, not the kind that you state to protect your guns.
If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
Some tragedy have no culprit.
In the face of any tragedy, caused by humans or random chance, we should try to be the best versions of ourselves. Rather than the worst and most self serving.
Cool ill have that written on my tombstone when i get bombed to pieces by another radicalized islamist who has not been so mentally stable for the past few years.
There's no indication that this is an Islamic terrorist incident as of yet. But yeah, keep trying to be the best version of yourself you can be, rather than the worst.
I am open to it not having any relation to other islamic attacks. If thats the case I revoke everything I said. And regarding the "best version of yourself", sure, sounds nice, just empty words tho.
On July 23 2016 07:31 Maenander wrote: [quote] If it turns out the guy on the roof was the lone culprit (as everything seems to indicate now) ... I mean that guy clearly had problems ...
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
I really hate people who try to show empathy bad people. We all know we can only feel one thing at a time, so we should save it for the people who died.
They're not mutually exclusive. It's quite possible that the perp is some form of victim, too. That doesn't justify anything, and isn't meant to. And of course no one should feel bad for him. But failing to realize that he could be a victim of sorts too, prevents you from actually learning and preventing the next attack.
I was being sarcastic. I agree with everything you just said.
My bad then, misunderstood you.
Me too.
In the weeks after the event in France, there have been instances of mentally ill people attacking random people. It's clearly, in part, some kind of reaction to the context as NukeD pointed out.
Sry, I am sometimes to heavy handed with the sarcasm. I just get irritated when someone shit on a person try to understand/show some sympathy for the mental state the killer would need to be in to commit those acts. Sure some of them are remorseless people. But sometimes they are just completed disasters who needed treatment more than anything else.
So how domwe deal with these people? Do we do it post factum once they have killed numerous amount of innocent people or donwe handle the problem at its root?
Who are these people? Mentally ill people that commit violence? Get them treatment if you can. Find out how they slipped through the cracks of the system if they were in it. Try to see where the breaking point what for them. Where they got the weapon.
There is no "root" to the problem. That is the point. You can't just fix it with some magical solution. Every case and shooter is different. Even terrorist can be found before they commit terrorism and stopped.
Thats dealing with the consequence rather than the cause.
And where we disagree is there not being a root to the problem. The root is quitte glaring in my eyes.
On July 23 2016 08:20 Kleinmuuhg wrote: im just glad all my friends in munich are save
Indeed, same.
All busses and trains are driving everywhere again. Must be signal that either the got them, they are dead or they know they are left somewhere far far away.
I say from this, it is over and we get all known facts from the conference.
On July 23 2016 08:25 Clonester wrote: All busses and trains are driving everywhere again. Must be signal that either the got them, they are dead or they know they are left somewhere far far away.
I say from this, it is over and we get all known facts from the conference.
I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Last time there was terrorism and massacres all across Europe all the time the Warsaw Pact was around. That put a certain limit on politics, you always had to consider if we do this what consequences might happen with regards to Washington and Moscow (French in particular always hated this constraint). Today there are fewer reasons for people to not go in an extreme direction which is scary.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
If there is a sudden epidemic of these attack then any reasonable person would ask himself what is the cause of the epidemic. And i think that we can all agree that there is a disproportionate number of these attacks in the past few years compared to before. Sure, you can view all of these attacks as isolated cases and make yourself blind to the big picture however that does not change the fact that Europe is facing a serious threat posed by people (sane/insane) radicalized by islamic values. Bringing them in by millions alsd didnt't help the problem.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
If there is a sudden epidemic of these attack than any reasonable person would ask themself what is the cause of the epidemic. And i think that we can all agree that there is a disproportionate number of these attacks in the past few years compared to before. Sure, you can view all of these attacks as isolated cases and make yourself blind to the big picture however that does not change the fact that Europe is facing a serious threat posed by people (sane/insane) radicalized by islamic values. Bringing them in by millions alsd didnt't help the problem.
What the hell are you talking about. At this point there is really zero.zero evidence this was in any way an attack by islamic radicals.
If anything, and even that is pure speculation, it would appear this was done by a deranged follower of Breivik.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
I'd say my country is quite multicultural, especially in the high density cities, but I can't recall Canada having news of terrorist attacks or major threats since like the attempted bombing of the CN Tower. Of course my country has the luck of being isolated from the refugee crisis and can afford to be a lot more selective and screen for threats, but I think it's also done a good job of integrating them into a national identity as well. Multiculturalism doesn't have to be a failure, but the way Europe conducts it clearly has mistakes or flaws which need to be answered.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
On July 23 2016 03:22 sharkie wrote: So will leftwings say this is just one crazy person again?
Its weird, because you are the first one to ask what the right or left will say. You looking for a little internet drama to go with the horrific violence?
No but I am sick of people saying this is a one time thing only. Of course this is horrible but we need to start doing stuff to stop this shit.
What stuff would that be?
Close off borders and start searching flats and houses and get rid of any weapons. My house is wide open for police to search, I got nothing to hide.
and yes that would take ages, its still better than doing nothing ffs
A knife can be a weapon, a truck can be a weapon, anything can be a weapon. Do we prevent people from having cutting objects and cars as well?
Fine, guns. You happy?
i prefer the remove kebab route. aint gonna give up my guns when they're around
I didnt think I would ever see a moderator on teamliquid express openly racist oppinions.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
If there is a sudden epidemic of these attack than any reasonable person would ask themself what is the cause of the epidemic. And i think that we can all agree that there is a disproportionate number of these attacks in the past few years compared to before. Sure, you can view all of these attacks as isolated cases and make yourself blind to the big picture however that does not change the fact that Europe is facing a serious threat posed by people (sane/insane) radicalized by islamic values. Bringing them in by millions alsd didnt't help the problem.
What the hell are you talking about. At this point there is really zero.zero evidence this was in any way an attack by islamic radicals.
If anything, and even that is pure speculation, it would appear this was done by a deranged follower of Breivik.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
On July 23 2016 08:52 PhoenixVoid wrote: I'd say my country is quite multicultural, especially in the high density cities, but I can't recall Canada having news of terrorist attacks or major threats since like the attempted bombing of the CN Tower. Of course my country has the luck of being isolated from the refugee crisis and can afford to be a lot more selective and screen for threats, but I think it's also done a good job of integrating them into a national identity as well. Multiculturalism doesn't have to be a failure, but the way Europe conducts it clearly has mistakes or flaws which need to be answered.
Canada has had a pretty rigid immigration process.
And even then we've had more terrorist attacks or attempts than we should have had. The Toronto 18 for instance. 18 guys who wanted to cause major damage. Then the recruitment center, parliament hill attacker, & other solo attackers. I believe there's been a couple in Montreal as well as the men who wanted to cause massive damage in Toronto by derailing the trains. This is all fairly recent.
Not to mention the fact that we haven't really made it work seeing as people still section themselves off to their own areas for the most part. A few streets above me is almost strictly Asian where the signs are in Chinese/English. A few streets below me it's more brown/black and there's more check cashing places & violence. Though violence seems to be somewhat evenly spaced in the GTA with downtown being the highest due to high concentrations of people and Markham being the lowest because Asian.
Canada makes it work better than other countries perhaps and there's not a lot of overt discrimination. Most people really don't care and they get along great. But again, we had our pick of the litter of immigrants and still have problems.
The fact that we have to hide our crime numbers by race is kind of shameful though. Because we have the same criminal patterns that the USA has.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
Multiculturalism isn't inherently bad.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
Violence happened someplace in the EU, clearly the boogieman known as Multiculturalism must be to blame. We must find how Multiculturalism is the cause and then, most importantly, blame the left and Muslims.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
I can't accept this pityful discourse that basically consider us to be impotent before all this. It's incredibly irresponsible to argue this way, like this damn wretched Cohn-Bendit. I consider this kind of argument to be one of the few things that can effectively push the people of europe toward a less democratic society. There are clear things that we must and can do to prevent those attacks, like more control on borders in regards to guns for exemple or heavier scrutiny on the identity of migrants.
We cannot accept that a belgium citizen, like Abaaoud, makes multiples trip from europe to syria, collect dickheads throughout europe, and plan an attack in the french soil like it's no big deal.
On July 23 2016 08:59 Plansix wrote: Violence happened someplace in the EU, clearly the boogieman known as Multiculturalism must be to blame. We must find how Multiculturalism is the cause and then, most importantly, blame the left and Muslims.
You can't fucking play the victim card everytime. Muslims have to stop whining and do something, and the left need to stop giving excuses and start proposing solutions. Terror attacks can't keep on at this pace for much more or the people will find a solution by themselves, and it won't be tolerant nor peaceful.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
I can't accept this pityful discourse that basically consider us to be impotent before all this. It's incredibly irresponsible to argue this way, like this damn wretched Cohn-Bendit. I consider this kind of argument to be one of the few things that can effectively push the people of europe toward a less democratic society. There are clear things that we must and can do to prevent those attacks, like more control on borders in regards to guns for exemple or heavier scrutiny on the identity of migrants.
We cannot accept that a belgium citizen, like Abaaoud, makes multiples trip from europe to syria, collect dickheads throughout europe, and plan an attack in the french soil like it's no big deal.
While i don't necessarily disagree (i don't at all) - how does this relate to this attack now? You'll always have illegal weapons. People act like there never were any. Even Australia has it, and they have some of the best border security in the world.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
I can't accept this pityful discourse that basically consider us to be impotent before all this. It's incredibly irresponsible to argue this way, like this damn wretched Cohn-Bendit. I consider this kind of argument to be one of the few things that can effectively push the people of europe toward a less democratic society. There are clear things that we must and can do to prevent those attacks, like more control on borders in regards to guns for exemple or heavier scrutiny on the identity of migrants.
We cannot accept that a belgium citizen, like Abaaoud, makes multiples trip from europe to syria, collect dickheads throughout europe, and plan an attack in the french soil like it's no big deal.
I personally agree with your views. We can always do more and be better. But the West as whole needs to avoid over correcting like the US did after 9/11.
Edit: Plz whitedog. There is a difference between talking like rational people and just throwing out blame based on rhetoric. Multiculturalism is a vague, useless term that people thrown around when they are worried they will sound xenophobic.
On July 23 2016 08:59 Plansix wrote: Violence happened someplace in the EU, clearly the boogieman known as Multiculturalism must be to blame. We must find how Multiculturalism is the cause and then, most importantly, blame the left and Muslims.
Thats just my viewpoint. You are more than welcome to present your cause of the problem. However, once again, im not taking anymore of this isolated case bullshit.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
If there is a sudden epidemic of these attack than any reasonable person would ask themself what is the cause of the epidemic. And i think that we can all agree that there is a disproportionate number of these attacks in the past few years compared to before. Sure, you can view all of these attacks as isolated cases and make yourself blind to the big picture however that does not change the fact that Europe is facing a serious threat posed by people (sane/insane) radicalized by islamic values. Bringing them in by millions alsd didnt't help the problem.
What the hell are you talking about. At this point there is really zero.zero evidence this was in any way an attack by islamic radicals.
If anything, and even that is pure speculation, it would appear this was done by a deranged follower of Breivik.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
yes, and if a rightwing guy shoots up an abortion clinic that also amounts to the 80% of Democrats being responsible for shootings because it was clearly in response to the left!
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
I can't accept this pityful discourse that basically consider us to be impotent before all this. It's incredibly irresponsible to argue this way, like this damn wretched Cohn-Bendit. I consider this kind of argument to be one of the few things that can effectively push the people of europe toward a less democratic society. There are clear things that we must and can do to prevent those attacks, like more control on borders in regards to guns for exemple or heavier scrutiny on the identity of migrants.
We cannot accept that a belgium citizen, like Abaaoud, makes multiples trip from europe to syria, collect dickheads throughout europe, and plan an attack in the french soil like it's no big deal.
I agree with all of that.
However again not really relevant to a crazy person with no connections to terrorism going on a murdering spree. Here Nyx is right, there really isn't a whole lot you can do against that.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
I can't accept this pityful discourse that basically consider us to be impotent before all this. It's incredibly irresponsible to argue this way, like this damn wretched Cohn-Bendit. I consider this kind of argument to be one of the few things that can effectively push the people of europe toward a less democratic society. There are clear things that we must and can do to prevent those attacks, like more control on borders in regards to guns for exemple or heavier scrutiny on the identity of migrants.
We cannot accept that a belgium citizen, like Abaaoud, makes multiples trip from europe to syria, collect dickheads throughout europe, and plan an attack in the french soil like it's no big deal.
While i don't necessarily disagree (i don't at all) - how does this relate to this attack now? You'll always have illegal weapons. People act like there never were any. Even Australia has it, and they have some of the best border security in the world.
It does not relate to this attack at all, I was just bored at the comment overall. There is nothing to do about this specific attack, it's just sad. But there is a point where a society cannot take it anymore. And people have no problem finding scapegoat. And yes, you will always have murder and illegal weapon... the question is the scale and the frequency.
Edit: Plz whitedog. There is a difference between talking like rational people and just throwing out blame based on rhetoric. Multiculturalism is a vague, useless term that people thrown around when they are worried they will sound xenophobic.
Multiculturalism is a philosophical doctrine defended by the likes of Charles Taylor, a doctrine that value diversity and differences above common belonging, a theory that I consider to be completly false. As for societies, they are all multicultural, and people who disagree with that don't go out enough.
On July 23 2016 08:59 Plansix wrote: Violence happened someplace in the EU, clearly the boogieman known as Multiculturalism must be to blame. We must find how Multiculturalism is the cause and then, most importantly, blame the left and Muslims.
Thats just my viewpoint. You are more than welcome to present your cause of the problem. However, once again, im not taking anymore of this isolated case bullshit.
Quick. Wanna take a ban bet of 30 days that this actually is an isolated case?
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
Obviously it is not. It is highly dependant on which cultures make up your "multi culture".
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
Multiculturalism isn't inherently bad.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
Obviously it is not. It is highly dependant on which cultures make up your "multi culture".
The largest group was rural turkish people. In the 60s.
On July 23 2016 08:59 Plansix wrote: Violence happened someplace in the EU, clearly the boogieman known as Multiculturalism must be to blame. We must find how Multiculturalism is the cause and then, most importantly, blame the left and Muslims.
Thats just my viewpoint. You are more than welcome to present your cause of the problem. However, once again, im not taking anymore of this isolated case bullshit.
Nah, I'll just remember your theories on 9/11 and trust you are not the best judge of reality.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
On July 23 2016 09:00 WhiteDog wrote: I can't accept this pityful discourse that basically consider us to be impotent before all this. It's incredibly irresponsible to argue this way, like this damn wretched Cohn-Bendit. I consider this kind of argument to be one of the few things that can effectively push the people of europe toward a less democratic society. There are clear things that we must and can do to prevent those attacks, like more control on borders in regards to guns for exemple or heavier scrutiny on the identity of migrants.
We cannot accept that a belgium citizen, like Abaaoud, makes multiples trip from europe to syria, collect dickheads throughout europe, and plan an attack in the french soil like it's no big deal.
Yes, in cases where people travel and turn into potential intelligence targets we can start talking about what the government can do. When an unhinged individual goes on a rampage with a truck or a home-made weapon or a weapon that is widely available there is practically nothing we can do. We're not living in Minority Report, we don't have a precrime division and can't look into people's heads.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
Multiculturalism isn't inherently bad.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
All things are good in small doses.
Try cyanide.
Xenophobia can't be "a small dose". The hint is in the term.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
Multiculturalism isn't inherently bad.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
All things are good in small doses.
Try cyanide.
Xenophobia can't be "a small dose". The hint is in the term.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
Multiculturalism isn't inherently bad.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
All things are good in small doses.
Try cyanide.
Xenophobia can't be "a small dose". The hint is in the term.
Fuck. This is savage, dark and on point.
To be clear, i didn't mean to say "go kill yourself". Just to be sure. ^^
On July 23 2016 09:08 Reaps wrote: Multiculturalism works, it is just Islam that struggles with it.
We've really gone off topic but might as well shoot the shit until the official response comes on.
Everyone struggles with it. White people dislike the increased crime and welfare that comes with it. Because it feels like you're literally paying for a criminal underclass that hates your guts.
That being said, again we're very off topic but not much new news is coming out anyway atm. Though the official German address should be soon / now.
On July 23 2016 08:59 Plansix wrote: Violence happened someplace in the EU, clearly the boogieman known as Multiculturalism must be to blame. We must find how Multiculturalism is the cause and then, most importantly, blame the left and Muslims.
Thats just my viewpoint. You are more than welcome to present your cause of the problem. However, once again, im not taking anymore of this isolated case bullshit.
Nah, I'll just remember your theories on 9/11 and trust you are not the best judge of reality.
Nah not my theories, proffesors of construction theories. I'm very curious as to which one of us spent more time investigating the 9/11 case. You are very easy to dismiss any non mainstream view as it is very easy and socially acceptable to dismiss anything as "conspiracy theory". That is a very easy coup to force the other person into a defensive position. Anyway, regarding 9/11, as I've said before, i'm not decided on the issue and i've posted the stuff in the other thread just to see how people on this forum "breathe". It was a flame bait if you like.
You jugle the ad hominem and factuous posts very awkwardly latelly.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
Multiculturalism isn't inherently bad.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
All things are good in small doses.
Try cyanide.
Xenophobia can't be "a small dose". The hint is in the term.
Fuck. This is savage, dark and on point.
To be clear, i didn't mean to say "go kill yourself". Just to be sure. ^^
The problem is not the existence of a multitude of culture in the same territory because it's just a fact. The culture in the north of the US is not the same as in the south, the culture in the blue collar population is not the same as in the wall street finance, but those differences does not create any kind of problem because, above that, there is a common sense of belonging to a same entity, the nation or the abstract humanity if you're in that kind of spiritualism. The problem is when the society / the state / the nation value diversity and promote it above any kind of common ground, to a point where people do not identify to the general collective but to their specifics.
Historically, that common ground has been the law. Since nobody trust justice anymore, good luck.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
Multiculturalism isn't inherently bad.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
All things are good in small doses.
Try cyanide.
Xenophobia can't be "a small dose". The hint is in the term.
Fuck. This is savage, dark and on point.
To be clear, i didn't mean to say "go kill yourself". Just to be sure. ^^
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
Multiculturalism isn't inherently bad.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
All things are good in small doses.
Try cyanide.
Xenophobia can't be "a small dose". The hint is in the term.
Xenophobia can be a small dose. The hint is real life.
Also that cyanide analogy scored you wit 2 points on a internet forum. Must have felt very satisfying coming up with that. I bet your secreted few milileters more saliva having thought of that.
Police press conference, will translate as best as I can
- Based on call ins police initially assumed 3 suspect - 2 were seen speeding from the scene, thus (wrongly) suspected - Public transportation and traffic was closed because of continuous call ins about suspects - Suspect found dead by police - assumed suicide - No further suspects - Suspect 18yo German-Iranian - Suspect was shot by police before found dead - 2300 officers were part of the man hunt - None of the many many call-ins and suspects turned out real
Q&A:
- First shooting at the McD - Attacker then continued to the mall - On the way was shot by police
- Attacker had no priors, unknown to police
- Victims of shootings all from the mall, not the McD shooting
- Attacker had a single hand gun, no further guns found
- Lone attacker, so far no evidence of any further suspects
- After being shot, the attacker initially got away, and was later found after presumably comitting suicide
- Police knows the video from the parking lot and is analysing it, also asking for any additional video material to be sent to the police
- Police sees no similarity to Wuerzburg attacks
- BFE+ (new federal police unit) was not part of the man hunt, but GSG9 was on site
- More details tomorrow
- Attacker was dual citizen of Germany and Iran
- No police was injured
- Attackers body was found in a side street near the mall
- No information on how the gun was obtained
- Three more people critically injured
- Investigations among friends and family ongoing
- No further information on the attacker
(Lots of stupid questions where all the police pres has to say is "that has to wait for the investigation to finish)
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
Multiculturalism isn't inherently bad.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
All things are good in small doses.
Try cyanide.
Xenophobia can't be "a small dose". The hint is in the term.
Xenophobia can be a small dose. The hint is real life.
On July 23 2016 03:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: gunfire being reported in the city center and possible subway?
Subways are said to have been shut down completely 15+ minutes ago.
I'm also curious why is it bad to see a raw footage of ppl getting killed ? I mean, I'm pretty sure most of us can overcome the violence since we've probably seen worse. I just don't understand why it would "help" the attackers (except for maybe policemen's positions). I'd even dare to say it helps us more than it helps them because whenever we see that sh.t going on, we can cope it up better the next time we see it. Or even, it'd make us rage more and then we'd not be afraid to see the next one threatening to bomb us because we'd be all tired to see this non-sense sh.t. We'd even take measures and actually kill them before they can do more harm.
On July 23 2016 09:22 Paljas wrote: i didnt quite understandthe dude talking: the suspect was a 18 year old teacher??
18 year old Iranian
Yup, 18 year old german-iranian. Zero clue as to the "why".
I'm also curious why is it bad to see a raw footage of ppl getting killed ? I mean, I'm pretty sure most of us can overcome the violence since we've probably seen worse. I just don't understand why it would "help" the attackers (except for maybe policemen's positions). I'd even dare to say it helps us more than it helps them because whenever we see that sh.t going on, we can cope it up better the next time we see it. Or even, it'd make us rage more and then we'd not be afraid to see the next one threatening to bomb us because we'd be all tired to see this non-sense sh.t. We'd take even take measures and actually kill them before they can do more harm.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
Multiculturalism isn't inherently bad.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
All things are good in small doses.
Try cyanide.
Xenophobia can't be "a small dose". The hint is in the term.
Xenophobia can be a small dose. The hint is real life.
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
Multiculturalism isn't inherently bad.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
All things are good in small doses.
Try cyanide.
Xenophobia can't be "a small dose". The hint is in the term.
Xenophobia can be a small dose. The hint is real life.
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
Multiculturalism isn't inherently bad.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
All things are good in small doses.
Try cyanide.
Xenophobia can't be "a small dose". The hint is in the term.
Xenophobia can be a small dose. The hint is real life.
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
similarities to würzburg - is this guy serious these questions are so incredibly terrible it reminds me of 5th graders being forced to ask questions to the art museum director
On July 23 2016 08:36 NukeD wrote: [quote] Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
Multiculturalism isn't inherently bad.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
All things are good in small doses.
Try cyanide.
Xenophobia can't be "a small dose". The hint is in the term.
Xenophobia can be a small dose. The hint is real life.
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society To clarify, it doesn't have to be purely based on ethnicity, a society needs its people to have something they all share, like religion, beliefs, background, etc.
"Usually we see more injured than dead, now it's 50/50 (paraphrased) - did he use special ammunition?"
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
God the US must suck according to you people, considering that you're one of the most multicultural countries in the world. In fact, literally founded and built by a multicultural society of immigrants from all over europe.
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
Multiculturalism isn't inherently bad.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
All things are good in small doses.
Try cyanide.
Xenophobia can't be "a small dose". The hint is in the term.
Xenophobia can be a small dose. The hint is real life.
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
The problem with this is that if you limit immigration, population growth slows dramatically and the entire economy stagnates (see: Japan for the last 20 years).
what I also think is really scary is how people were essentially reporting fake shootings and attacks the whole evening while the guy was dead for hours. Modern communications amplifies this stuff by a factor of ten.
Police press conference, will translate as best as I can
- Based on call ins police initially assumed 3 suspect - 2 were seen speeding from the scene, thus (wrongly) suspected - Public transportation and traffic was closed because of continuous call ins about suspects - Suspect found dead by police - assumed suicide - No further suspects - Suspect 18yo German-Iranian - Suspect was shot by police before found dead - 2300 officers were part of the man hunt - None of the many many call-ins and suspects turned out real
Q&A:
- First shooting at the McD - Attacker then continued to the mall - On the way was shot by police
- Attacker had no priors, unknown to police
- Victims of shootings all from the mall, not the McD shooting
- Attacker had a single hand gun, no further guns found
- Lone attacker, so far no evidence of any further suspects
- After being shot, the attacker initially got away, and was later found after presumably comitting suicide
- Police knows the video from the parking lot and is analysing it, also asking for any additional video material to be sent to the police
- Police sees no similarity to Wuerzburg attacks
- BFE+ (new federal police unit) was not part of the man hunt, but GSG9 was on site
- More details tomorrow
- Attacker was dual citizen of Germany and Iran
- No police was injured
- Attackers body was found in a side street near the mall
- No information on how the gun was obtained
- Three more people critically injured
- Investigations among friends and family ongoing
- No further information on the attacker
(Lots of stupid questions where all the police pres has to say is "that has to wait for the investigation to finish)
What needs to happen is that anyone who wants to immigrate needs to be thoroughly vetted: Do they benefit society, do they share the society's values, and whatever, but that's kinda off-topic for this thread
On July 23 2016 09:50 plasmidghost wrote: What needs to happen is that anyone who wants to immigrate needs to be thoroughly vetted: Do they benefit society, do they share the society's values, and whatever, but that's kinda off-topic for this thread
Literally nothing to do with this thread. Like the guy was born in Germany.
On July 23 2016 09:49 Nyxisto wrote: what I also think is really scary is how people were essentially reporting fake shootings and attacks the whole evening while the guy was dead for hours. Modern communications amplifies this stuff by a factor of ten.
Actually, the Stachus shooting could've been the shots from the parking lot roof. Apparently (according to reddit etc) people panicked at Stachus when they heard shots, so they called that in.
That's where the alleged second shooting came from. So, at least some of this, is actually understandable. I just hope they find the fake facebook fucker. Although i assume that was the guy in the first place.
On July 23 2016 09:50 plasmidghost wrote: What needs to happen is that anyone who wants to immigrate needs to be thoroughly vetted: Do they benefit society, do they share the society's values, and whatever, but that's kinda off-topic for this thread
I don't see how that solves anything. Wasn't this attacker born in Germany?
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
It's not though (edit: evil, to clarify).
Germany as we know it today was built by a multicultural population. Google "Guest workers", or the german word "Gastarbeiter".
Multiculturalism isn't inherently bad.
It was likely a deranged man. Given the video evidence we've seen most people seem to think so as well. In the case of Breivik he seemed to be pretty anti-multiculturalism. So you could still attribute his attack under the umbrella of rejecting the leftist viewpoint. So his statement is not exactly wrong. That is still an effect of multiculturalism technically.
That's the dumbest disguise i've ever seen for blatant xenophobia.
All things are good in small doses.
Try cyanide.
Xenophobia can't be "a small dose". The hint is in the term.
Xenophobia can be a small dose. The hint is real life.
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society To clarify, it doesn't have to be purely based on ethnicity, a society needs its people to have something they all share, like religion, beliefs, background, etc.
Exactly this, without going too political, I wish everyone who supports immigration would see this perspective of the other side before calling them rude words. At least I think that this is the perspective of most.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
God the US must suck according to you people, considering that you're one of the most multicultural countries in the world. In fact, literally founded and built by a multicultural society of immigrants from all over europe.
I don't like the US for a lot of reasons (I like it in theory), but that's not really one of them
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
The problem with this is that if you limit immigration, population growth slows dramatically and the entire economy stagnates (see: Japan for the last 20 years).
Im perfectly fine with that. As ive said before its not all about economic growth. I'm full in favor of having dramatic measures of increasing your own populations natallity before reaching out for immigrants.
On July 23 2016 09:50 plasmidghost wrote: What needs to happen is that anyone who wants to immigrate needs to be thoroughly vetted: Do they benefit society, do they share the society's values, and whatever, but that's kinda off-topic for this thread
I don't see how that solves anything. Wasn't this attacker born in Germany?
In this case, I would also argue that the government should screen every single one of its citizens for things like severe mental disorders, sociopathic tendencies, etc. and give them the help they need. It'd be a long-term goal but I think it could've helped in this case
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
The problem with this is that if you limit immigration, population growth slows dramatically and the entire economy stagnates (see: Japan for the last 20 years).
Im perfectly fine with that. As ive said before its not all about economic growth. I'm full in favor of having dramatic measures of increasing your own populations natallity than outright reaching for immigrants.
Force people to fuck and get kids?
Anyway. Could we steer clear of this retarded discussion that literally has nothing to do with what happened here?
In this case, I would also argue that the government should screen every single one of its citizens for things like severe mental disorders, sociopathic tendencies, etc. and give them the help they need. It'd be a long-term goal but I think it could've helped in this case
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
The problem with this is that if you limit immigration, population growth slows dramatically and the entire economy stagnates (see: Japan for the last 20 years).
That's a rather shallow analysis.
Firstly, it's not like this problem is unsolvable. Second, if you want to talk immigration, look at labour force participation. Bringing in immigrants for economic reasons is like taking out a 20% annual interest loan, and spirals into an endless cycle once you realize that then the immigrants will want to bring in their older families and not reproduce as quickly either. Even economically a very short term focused plan.
On July 23 2016 09:50 plasmidghost wrote: What needs to happen is that anyone who wants to immigrate needs to be thoroughly vetted: Do they benefit society, do they share the society's values, and whatever, but that's kinda off-topic for this thread
I don't see how that solves anything. Wasn't this attacker born in Germany?
On July 23 2016 09:42 m4ini wrote: And why's nobody asking about the big backpack?
There was a question about whether they found weapons in the backpack, the answer was 'no weapons with a barrel' (i.e. guns) so not really an exhaustive answer.
On July 23 2016 09:50 plasmidghost wrote: What needs to happen is that anyone who wants to immigrate needs to be thoroughly vetted: Do they benefit society, do they share the society's values, and whatever, but that's kinda off-topic for this thread
I don't see how that solves anything. Wasn't this attacker born in Germany?
Unclear, only that he was a citizen.
He said in the roof video that he was born in germany, so it's safe to assume for now that he got german citizenship by birth, not by application (which would be rare for an 18 year old iranian) - and his german actually was pretty good, as in almost native including accent.
There was a question about whether they found weapons in the backpack, the answer was 'no weapons with a barrel' (i.e. guns) so not really an exhaustive answer.
Must've missed that, i heard them saying that he only used a gun, no "Long barrels", but i missed the part that it's connected to the backpack.
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
The problem with this is that if you limit immigration, population growth slows dramatically and the entire economy stagnates (see: Japan for the last 20 years).
Im perfectly fine with that. As ive said before its not all about economic growth. I'm full in favor of having dramatic measures of increasing your own populations natallity before reaching out for immigrants.
MMMM limited immigration and natural citizen with 10-15% unemployment or more. Wage stagnation while interest increases. Sounds awesome. Forced pregnancies. A true dystopia.
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
The problem with this is that if you limit immigration, population growth slows dramatically and the entire economy stagnates (see: Japan for the last 20 years).
Im perfectly fine with that. As ive said before its not all about economic growth. I'm full in favor of having dramatic measures of increasing your own populations natallity than outright reaching for immigrants.
Force people to fuck and get kids?
Anyway. Could we steer clear of this retarded discussion that literally has nothing to do with what happened here?
In this case, I would also argue that the government should screen every single one of its citizens for things like severe mental disorders, sociopathic tendencies, etc. and give them the help they need. It'd be a long-term goal but I think it could've helped in this case
/facepalm
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
The problem with this is that if you limit immigration, population growth slows dramatically and the entire economy stagnates (see: Japan for the last 20 years).
Im perfectly fine with that. As ive said before its not all about economic growth. I'm full in favor of having dramatic measures of increasing your own populations natallity than outright reaching for immigrants.
Force people to fuck and get kids?
Anyway. Could we steer clear of this retarded discussion that literally has nothing to do with what happened here?
In this case, I would also argue that the government should screen every single one of its citizens for things like severe mental disorders, sociopathic tendencies, etc. and give them the help they need. It'd be a long-term goal but I think it could've helped in this case
/facepalm
What? Lol. ???? No, like giving a substantial boost for every newborn baby (such as we have here in Croatia, not substantial tho) and other measures of that sort.
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
The problem with this is that if you limit immigration, population growth slows dramatically and the entire economy stagnates (see: Japan for the last 20 years).
That's a rather shallow analysis.
Firstly, it's not like this problem is unsolvable. Second, if you want to talk immigration, look at labour force participation. Bringing in immigrants for economic reasons is like taking out a 20% annual interest loan, and spirals into an endless cycle once you realize that then the immigrants will want to bring in their older families and not reproduce as quickly either. Even economically a very short term focused plan.
Labour force participation is not low for immigrants in general, only for refugees. As for the 2nd part of your comment, it's not something I looked up so I can only speak for my country, birth rate of Romanians abroad (most of which are in Italy, Spain, UK & Germany) is 30% higher than of those in Romania.
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
The problem with this is that if you limit immigration, population growth slows dramatically and the entire economy stagnates (see: Japan for the last 20 years).
That's a rather shallow analysis.
Firstly, it's not like this problem is unsolvable. Second, if you want to talk immigration, look at labour force participation. Bringing in immigrants for economic reasons is like taking out a 20% annual interest loan, and spirals into an endless cycle once you realize that then the immigrants will want to bring in their older families and not reproduce as quickly either. Even economically a very short term focused plan.
Labour force participation is not low for immigrants in general, only for refugees. As for the 2nd part of your comment, it's not something I looked up so I can only speak for my country, birth rate of Romanians abroad (most of which are in Italy, Spain, UK & Germany) is 30% higher than of those in Romania.
That's because Romanian abroad are younger on average than Romanian who stays in Romania, for obvious reasons. That was not his point, his point wa that you can still push forward GDP and labor force by increase participation in the native population.
Anyway this is dumb, Japan's stagnation is not entirely due to demographics : it plays a role, but that's not sufficient. The question of inflation / saving / wage is as more if not way more important than demographics. Of course, they are linked to demographics (modigliani's life cycle and all that) but the actual macroeconomic policies plays a huge part. In the case of Japan, the policies that the government pushed for at the beginning of the lost decade played a huge role in the stagnation of wages. And if our only way to grow is to increase our population, I have a news for you all, we can't grow endlessly this way. Better thinking about ways to increase investment in a low consumption / high savings rent seeking societies, because that's our future.
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
Because i corrected your use of "xenophobia"? After which you then go ahead and tell me that it's not fair to call countries "xenophobic" after you literally give the definition of a xenophobic country? I can live with that.
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
Constructive feedback to what? The "suggestion" that we screen 80 million people a year in a country with open borders? It's dumb. Like, there's nothing to say other than it's a dumb suggestion. Unrealistic on top, and pointless right after, considering that you'd need to do it constantly, since not every mental illness gets A: spotted in the first session, and B: not every mental illness develops from child age.
And after all this, you realize that the germanwings pilot who WAS in therapy for depression still killed dozens of people when he suicided. And yes, it's retarded that he was allowed to pilot that plane. But! He could've also chosen something that happens occasionally in the US: suicide by a police bullet. His plan was to go out with a bang.
edit: don't get me wrong. I do see the need for improvements in certain areas, especially in regards to mental illness, so i don't disagree with that.
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
Because i corrected your use of "xenophobia"? After which you then go ahead and tell me that it's not fair to call countries "xenophobic" after you literally give the definition of a xenophobic country? I can live with that.
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
Constructive feedback to what? The "suggestion" that we screen 80 million people a year in a country with open borders? It's dumb. Like, there's nothing to say other than it's a dumb suggestion. Unrealistic on top, and pointless right after, considering that you'd need to do it constantly, since not every mental illness gets A: spotted in the first session, and B: not every mental illness develops from child age.
And after all this, you realize that the germanwings pilot who WAS in therapy for depression still killed dozens of people when he suicided. And yes, it's retarded that he was allowed to pilot that plane. But! He could've also chosen something that happens occasionally in the US: suicide by a police bullet. His plan was to go out with a bang.
Close the borders then, free immigration isn't a right
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
Because i corrected your use of "xenophobia"? After which you then go ahead and tell me that it's not fair to call countries "xenophobic" after you literally give the definition of a xenophobic country? I can live with that.
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
Constructive feedback to what? The "suggestion" that we screen 80 million people a year in a country with open borders? It's dumb. Like, there's nothing to say other than it's a dumb suggestion. Unrealistic on top, and pointless right after, considering that you'd need to do it constantly, since not every mental illness gets A: spotted in the first session, and B: not every mental illness develops from child age.
And after all this, you realize that the germanwings pilot who WAS in therapy for depression still killed dozens of people when he suicided. And yes, it's retarded that he was allowed to pilot that plane. But! He could've also chosen something that happens occasionally in the US: suicide by a police bullet. His plan was to go out with a bang.
Close the borders then, free immigration isn't a right
Bro, they are in the EU. You just ask New England to close down the boarders to the rest of the US.
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
Because i corrected your use of "xenophobia"? After which you then go ahead and tell me that it's not fair to call countries "xenophobic" after you literally give the definition of a xenophobic country? I can live with that.
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
Constructive feedback to what? The "suggestion" that we screen 80 million people a year in a country with open borders? It's dumb. Like, there's nothing to say other than it's a dumb suggestion. Unrealistic on top, and pointless right after, considering that you'd need to do it constantly, since not every mental illness gets A: spotted in the first session, and B: not every mental illness develops from child age.
And after all this, you realize that the germanwings pilot who WAS in therapy for depression still killed dozens of people when he suicided. And yes, it's retarded that he was allowed to pilot that plane. But! He could've also chosen something that happens occasionally in the US: suicide by a police bullet. His plan was to go out with a bang.
Close the borders then, free immigration isn't a right
Bro, they are in the EU. You just ask New England to close down the boarders to the rest of the US.
US have federal state, EU is a fucked up idea. Without a federal state, mobility of labor and capital creates too much problem. Like the richest countries attracting the most well educated, and thus proftting from the education services of the poorest countries. Inverse redistribution is the EU's scheme.
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
The problem with this is that if you limit immigration, population growth slows dramatically and the entire economy stagnates (see: Japan for the last 20 years).
That's a rather shallow analysis.
Firstly, it's not like this problem is unsolvable. Second, if you want to talk immigration, look at labour force participation. Bringing in immigrants for economic reasons is like taking out a 20% annual interest loan, and spirals into an endless cycle once you realize that then the immigrants will want to bring in their older families and not reproduce as quickly either. Even economically a very short term focused plan.
Labour force participation is not low for immigrants in general, only for refugees. As for the 2nd part of your comment, it's not something I looked up so I can only speak for my country, birth rate of Romanians abroad (most of which are in Italy, Spain, UK & Germany) is 30% higher than of those in Romania.
That's because Romanian abroad are younger on average than Romanian who stays in Romania, for obvious reasons. That was not his point, his point wa that you can still push forward GDP and labor force by increase participation in the native population.
Of course, but his point was also that 'immigrants will want to bring in their older families and not reproduce as quickly either' which is not really the case, with our expats at least. Another factor worth mentioning is that infant mortality rate is much higher in Romania than in those countries
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
Because i corrected your use of "xenophobia"? After which you then go ahead and tell me that it's not fair to call countries "xenophobic" after you literally give the definition of a xenophobic country? I can live with that.
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
Constructive feedback to what? The "suggestion" that we screen 80 million people a year in a country with open borders? It's dumb. Like, there's nothing to say other than it's a dumb suggestion. Unrealistic on top, and pointless right after, considering that you'd need to do it constantly, since not every mental illness gets A: spotted in the first session, and B: not every mental illness develops from child age.
And after all this, you realize that the germanwings pilot who WAS in therapy for depression still killed dozens of people when he suicided. And yes, it's retarded that he was allowed to pilot that plane. But! He could've also chosen something that happens occasionally in the US: suicide by a police bullet. His plan was to go out with a bang.
Close the borders then, free immigration isn't a right
It is if you want to maintain peace/trade in Europe
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
Because i corrected your use of "xenophobia"? After which you then go ahead and tell me that it's not fair to call countries "xenophobic" after you literally give the definition of a xenophobic country? I can live with that.
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
Constructive feedback to what? The "suggestion" that we screen 80 million people a year in a country with open borders? It's dumb. Like, there's nothing to say other than it's a dumb suggestion. Unrealistic on top, and pointless right after, considering that you'd need to do it constantly, since not every mental illness gets A: spotted in the first session, and B: not every mental illness develops from child age.
And after all this, you realize that the germanwings pilot who WAS in therapy for depression still killed dozens of people when he suicided. And yes, it's retarded that he was allowed to pilot that plane. But! He could've also chosen something that happens occasionally in the US: suicide by a police bullet. His plan was to go out with a bang.
Close the borders then, free immigration isn't a right
Bro, they are in the EU. You just ask New England to close down the boarders to the rest of the US.
US have federal state, EU is a fucked up idea. Without a federal state, mobility of labor and capital creates too much problem.
I agree that is one of the fundamental problems with the EU. A federal state that resolve some of these problems, especially was run via voter representation rather than appointment.
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
Because i corrected your use of "xenophobia"? After which you then go ahead and tell me that it's not fair to call countries "xenophobic" after you literally give the definition of a xenophobic country? I can live with that.
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
Constructive feedback to what? The "suggestion" that we screen 80 million people a year in a country with open borders? It's dumb. Like, there's nothing to say other than it's a dumb suggestion. Unrealistic on top, and pointless right after, considering that you'd need to do it constantly, since not every mental illness gets A: spotted in the first session, and B: not every mental illness develops from child age.
And after all this, you realize that the germanwings pilot who WAS in therapy for depression still killed dozens of people when he suicided. And yes, it's retarded that he was allowed to pilot that plane. But! He could've also chosen something that happens occasionally in the US: suicide by a police bullet. His plan was to go out with a bang.
Close the borders then, free immigration isn't a right
Bro, they are in the EU. You just ask New England to close down the boarders to the rest of the US.
US have federal state, EU is a fucked up idea. Without a federal state, mobility of labor and capital creates too much problem. Like the richest countries attracting the most well educated, and thus proftting from the education services of the poorest countries.
We all know you hate EUs guts. That doesn't change what Plansix said.
Apart from the obvious fact that even IF we closed our borders, how does that magically make screening of an entire population annually feasable?
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
Because i corrected your use of "xenophobia"? After which you then go ahead and tell me that it's not fair to call countries "xenophobic" after you literally give the definition of a xenophobic country? I can live with that.
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
Constructive feedback to what? The "suggestion" that we screen 80 million people a year in a country with open borders? It's dumb. Like, there's nothing to say other than it's a dumb suggestion. Unrealistic on top, and pointless right after, considering that you'd need to do it constantly, since not every mental illness gets A: spotted in the first session, and B: not every mental illness develops from child age.
And after all this, you realize that the germanwings pilot who WAS in therapy for depression still killed dozens of people when he suicided. And yes, it's retarded that he was allowed to pilot that plane. But! He could've also chosen something that happens occasionally in the US: suicide by a police bullet. His plan was to go out with a bang.
Close the borders then, free immigration isn't a right
Bro, they are in the EU. You just ask New England to close down the boarders to the rest of the US.
US have federal state, EU is a fucked up idea. Without a federal state, mobility of labor and capital creates too much problem. Like the richest countries attracting the most well educated, and thus proftting from the education services of the poorest countries.
We all know you hate EUs guts. That doesn't change what Plansix said.
Apart from the obvious fact that even IF we closed our borders, how does that magically make screening of an entire population annually feasable?
Like I said, it would be a long, long time before that would ever work
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
Because i corrected your use of "xenophobia"? After which you then go ahead and tell me that it's not fair to call countries "xenophobic" after you literally give the definition of a xenophobic country? I can live with that.
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
Constructive feedback to what? The "suggestion" that we screen 80 million people a year in a country with open borders? It's dumb. Like, there's nothing to say other than it's a dumb suggestion. Unrealistic on top, and pointless right after, considering that you'd need to do it constantly, since not every mental illness gets A: spotted in the first session, and B: not every mental illness develops from child age.
And after all this, you realize that the germanwings pilot who WAS in therapy for depression still killed dozens of people when he suicided. And yes, it's retarded that he was allowed to pilot that plane. But! He could've also chosen something that happens occasionally in the US: suicide by a police bullet. His plan was to go out with a bang.
Close the borders then, free immigration isn't a right
Bro, they are in the EU. You just ask New England to close down the boarders to the rest of the US.
US have federal state, EU is a fucked up idea. Without a federal state, mobility of labor and capital creates too much problem. Like the richest countries attracting the most well educated, and thus proftting from the education services of the poorest countries.
We all know you hate EUs guts. That doesn't change what Plansix said.
Apart from the obvious fact that even IF we closed our borders, how does that magically make screening of an entire population annually feasable?
Closing borders is dumb, but some control should be made, or some form of compensation for the weakest countries. Anyway, intra european migration is not a problem at all, europe is a civilization, and even if we indeed have cultural differencies, overall we're pretty close. The problem is how we can grow altogether, and not destroy ourselves in a meaningless and fruitless competition that push us towards social and fiscal dumping. I'm not sure NukeD's point is about that : he is more talking about the cultural effect of a migration coming from other areas.
And I want to clarify, I hate almost all form of governments.
On July 23 2016 10:18 TheNewEra wrote: German-Iranian. This means should this actually be an Islamist terrorattack that it most probably wasn't done by ISIS right?
Most of the ISIS attacks weren't actually done by ISIS members but by people "inspired" by them.
On July 23 2016 10:18 TheNewEra wrote: German-Iranian. This means should this actually be an Islamist terrorattack that it most probably wasn't done by ISIS right?
most likely. It's possible he was inspired by ISIS, but they themselves, most likely didn't send him to do this
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
Because i corrected your use of "xenophobia"? After which you then go ahead and tell me that it's not fair to call countries "xenophobic" after you literally give the definition of a xenophobic country? I can live with that.
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
Constructive feedback to what? The "suggestion" that we screen 80 million people a year in a country with open borders? It's dumb. Like, there's nothing to say other than it's a dumb suggestion. Unrealistic on top, and pointless right after, considering that you'd need to do it constantly, since not every mental illness gets A: spotted in the first session, and B: not every mental illness develops from child age.
And after all this, you realize that the germanwings pilot who WAS in therapy for depression still killed dozens of people when he suicided. And yes, it's retarded that he was allowed to pilot that plane. But! He could've also chosen something that happens occasionally in the US: suicide by a police bullet. His plan was to go out with a bang.
Close the borders then, free immigration isn't a right
Bro, they are in the EU. You just ask New England to close down the boarders to the rest of the US.
Do you want to tell me how free immigration is a problem when someone's origin is Iran? I don't think Europe has freedom of movement for Iranians. Therefore, non-EU nationals are likely subject to visa. I don't think anyone can get visa for a long time just like that.
On July 23 2016 10:18 TheNewEra wrote: German-Iranian. This means should this actually be an Islamist terrorattack that it most probably wasn't done by ISIS right?
most likely. It's possible he was inspired by ISIS, but they themselves, most likely didn't send him to do this
Doesn't Iran follow different kind of islam though?
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
Because i corrected your use of "xenophobia"? After which you then go ahead and tell me that it's not fair to call countries "xenophobic" after you literally give the definition of a xenophobic country? I can live with that.
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
Constructive feedback to what? The "suggestion" that we screen 80 million people a year in a country with open borders? It's dumb. Like, there's nothing to say other than it's a dumb suggestion. Unrealistic on top, and pointless right after, considering that you'd need to do it constantly, since not every mental illness gets A: spotted in the first session, and B: not every mental illness develops from child age.
And after all this, you realize that the germanwings pilot who WAS in therapy for depression still killed dozens of people when he suicided. And yes, it's retarded that he was allowed to pilot that plane. But! He could've also chosen something that happens occasionally in the US: suicide by a police bullet. His plan was to go out with a bang.
Close the borders then, free immigration isn't a right
Bro, they are in the EU. You just ask New England to close down the boarders to the rest of the US.
US have federal state, EU is a fucked up idea. Without a federal state, mobility of labor and capital creates too much problem. Like the richest countries attracting the most well educated, and thus proftting from the education services of the poorest countries.
We all know you hate EUs guts. That doesn't change what Plansix said.
Apart from the obvious fact that even IF we closed our borders, how does that magically make screening of an entire population annually feasable?
Closing borders is dumb, but some control should be made, or some form of compensation for the weakest countries. Anyway, intra european migration is not a problem at all, europe is a civilization, and even if we indeed have cultural differencies, overall we're pretty close. The problem is how we can grow altogether, and not destroy ourself in a meaningless and fruitless competition that push us towards social dumping. I'm not sure NukeD's point is about that : he is more talking about the cultural effect of a migration coming from other areas.
If you're trying to say that the european system as of now has some serious flaws: i agree. Although i wasn't talking about cultural effects in regards to muslim immigrants (because obviously, it's not "other areas", it's the middle east), but how feasable it is to screen an entire country constantly for psychopaths.
My argument was, apart from the unrealism etc, that open borders inner europe simply mean that someone from france could go on a rampage in the netherlands.
Do you want to tell me how free immigration is a problem when someone's origin is Iran? I don't think Europe has freedom of movement for Iranians. Therefore, non-EU nationals are likely subject to visa. I don't think anyone can get visa for a long time just like that.
His origin is most likely germany. And of course, freedom of movement only counts for EU citizens. Although i can't tell how hard the visa-process is in germany - i only remember some controversy in regards to homestory cup, a player had trouble with a visa or something?
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
Because i corrected your use of "xenophobia"? After which you then go ahead and tell me that it's not fair to call countries "xenophobic" after you literally give the definition of a xenophobic country? I can live with that.
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
Constructive feedback to what? The "suggestion" that we screen 80 million people a year in a country with open borders? It's dumb. Like, there's nothing to say other than it's a dumb suggestion. Unrealistic on top, and pointless right after, considering that you'd need to do it constantly, since not every mental illness gets A: spotted in the first session, and B: not every mental illness develops from child age.
And after all this, you realize that the germanwings pilot who WAS in therapy for depression still killed dozens of people when he suicided. And yes, it's retarded that he was allowed to pilot that plane. But! He could've also chosen something that happens occasionally in the US: suicide by a police bullet. His plan was to go out with a bang.
Close the borders then, free immigration isn't a right
Bro, they are in the EU. You just ask New England to close down the boarders to the rest of the US.
Do you want to tell me how free immigration is a problem when someone's origin is Iran? I don't think Europe has freedom of movement for Iranians. Therefore, non-EU nationals are likely subject to visa. I don't think anyone can get visa for a long time just like that.
Well his parents fucked and then had the kid in the EU.
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
Because i corrected your use of "xenophobia"? After which you then go ahead and tell me that it's not fair to call countries "xenophobic" after you literally give the definition of a xenophobic country? I can live with that.
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
Constructive feedback to what? The "suggestion" that we screen 80 million people a year in a country with open borders? It's dumb. Like, there's nothing to say other than it's a dumb suggestion. Unrealistic on top, and pointless right after, considering that you'd need to do it constantly, since not every mental illness gets A: spotted in the first session, and B: not every mental illness develops from child age.
And after all this, you realize that the germanwings pilot who WAS in therapy for depression still killed dozens of people when he suicided. And yes, it's retarded that he was allowed to pilot that plane. But! He could've also chosen something that happens occasionally in the US: suicide by a police bullet. His plan was to go out with a bang.
Close the borders then, free immigration isn't a right
Bro, they are in the EU. You just ask New England to close down the boarders to the rest of the US.
Do you want to tell me how free immigration is a problem when someone's origin is Iran? I don't think Europe has freedom of movement for Iranians. Therefore, non-EU nationals are likely subject to visa. I don't think anyone can get visa for a long time just like that.
Well his parents fucked and then had the kid in the EU.
But his parents didn't come from an EU country. Therefore, this isn't a problem about "free immigration" (freedom of movement if you mean that).
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
Because i corrected your use of "xenophobia"? After which you then go ahead and tell me that it's not fair to call countries "xenophobic" after you literally give the definition of a xenophobic country? I can live with that.
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
Constructive feedback to what? The "suggestion" that we screen 80 million people a year in a country with open borders? It's dumb. Like, there's nothing to say other than it's a dumb suggestion. Unrealistic on top, and pointless right after, considering that you'd need to do it constantly, since not every mental illness gets A: spotted in the first session, and B: not every mental illness develops from child age.
And after all this, you realize that the germanwings pilot who WAS in therapy for depression still killed dozens of people when he suicided. And yes, it's retarded that he was allowed to pilot that plane. But! He could've also chosen something that happens occasionally in the US: suicide by a police bullet. His plan was to go out with a bang.
Close the borders then, free immigration isn't a right
Bro, they are in the EU. You just ask New England to close down the boarders to the rest of the US.
Do you want to tell me how free immigration is a problem when someone's origin is Iran? I don't think Europe has freedom of movement for Iranians. Therefore, non-EU nationals are likely subject to visa. I don't think anyone can get visa for a long time just like that.
Well his parents fucked and then had the kid in the EU.
But his parents didn't come from an EU country. Therefore, this isn't a problem about "free immigration" (freedom of movement if you mean that).
By all means let us steer of this retarded discussion but I want to recognize your severe contribution to the factor of its retardness.
Because i corrected your use of "xenophobia"? After which you then go ahead and tell me that it's not fair to call countries "xenophobic" after you literally give the definition of a xenophobic country? I can live with that.
Wow, you really give constructive feedback, thanks, I never thought of it that way
Constructive feedback to what? The "suggestion" that we screen 80 million people a year in a country with open borders? It's dumb. Like, there's nothing to say other than it's a dumb suggestion. Unrealistic on top, and pointless right after, considering that you'd need to do it constantly, since not every mental illness gets A: spotted in the first session, and B: not every mental illness develops from child age.
And after all this, you realize that the germanwings pilot who WAS in therapy for depression still killed dozens of people when he suicided. And yes, it's retarded that he was allowed to pilot that plane. But! He could've also chosen something that happens occasionally in the US: suicide by a police bullet. His plan was to go out with a bang.
Close the borders then, free immigration isn't a right
Bro, they are in the EU. You just ask New England to close down the boarders to the rest of the US.
Do you want to tell me how free immigration is a problem when someone's origin is Iran? I don't think Europe has freedom of movement for Iranians. Therefore, non-EU nationals are likely subject to visa. I don't think anyone can get visa for a long time just like that.
Well his parents fucked and then had the kid in the EU.
I don't think we're talking the correct subject here.
First: if we're assuming that the rooftop-video is legit, that this guy was the shooter, then he was pretty german. Bavarians have a distinct accent (like scotsmen in english) - and he had that too. He had proper grammar, too. Didn't have the rolling "r" that you hear from kids that only speak arabic or whatever at home. He was very articulated, so lets not act like he was a rural iranian who came for the welfare or something. At least not until it's confirmed, because as it stands, i actually doubt that very much.
What? How the fuck does that work?
Parents get a visa, give birth in germany. Or, possibly, his parents already are second generation immigrants.
On July 23 2016 10:18 TheNewEra wrote: German-Iranian. This means should this actually be an Islamist terrorattack that it most probably wasn't done by ISIS right?
most likely. It's possible he was inspired by ISIS, but they themselves, most likely didn't send him to do this
Would this be an actual possibility even though ISIS is Sunni and would love to kill most of the Iranians who are Shias?
On July 23 2016 10:18 TheNewEra wrote: German-Iranian. This means should this actually be an Islamist terrorattack that it most probably wasn't done by ISIS right?
most likely. It's possible he was inspired by ISIS, but they themselves, most likely didn't send him to do this
Would this be an actual possibility even though ISIS is Sunni and would love to kill most of the Iranians who are Shias?
There's degree in haramness... lol Sunni, still better than kafir.
On July 23 2016 10:18 TheNewEra wrote: German-Iranian. This means should this actually be an Islamist terrorattack that it most probably wasn't done by ISIS right?
most likely. It's possible he was inspired by ISIS, but they themselves, most likely didn't send him to do this
Would this be an actual possibility even though ISIS is Sunni and would love to kill most of the Iranians who are Shias?
As you say, most Iranians. There's a 1 in 10 chance he's Sunni
On July 23 2016 10:18 TheNewEra wrote: German-Iranian. This means should this actually be an Islamist terrorattack that it most probably wasn't done by ISIS right?
most likely. It's possible he was inspired by ISIS, but they themselves, most likely didn't send him to do this
Would this be an actual possibility even though ISIS is Sunni and would love to kill most of the Iranians who are Shias?
Yes, most of the current wave of terrorists have no idea who they're pledging allegiance to. ISIS also loves to kill Sunnis.
On July 23 2016 10:18 TheNewEra wrote: German-Iranian. This means should this actually be an Islamist terrorattack that it most probably wasn't done by ISIS right?
most likely. It's possible he was inspired by ISIS, but they themselves, most likely didn't send him to do this
Would this be an actual possibility even though ISIS is Sunni and would love to kill most of the Iranians who are Shias?
I think the factor is more that the fanatic crazy Shias hate Sunnis and as an extension ISIS as much as the other way round.
On July 23 2016 10:18 TheNewEra wrote: German-Iranian. This means should this actually be an Islamist terrorattack that it most probably wasn't done by ISIS right?
most likely. It's possible he was inspired by ISIS, but they themselves, most likely didn't send him to do this
Would this be an actual possibility even though ISIS is Sunni and would love to kill most of the Iranians who are Shias?
As you say, most Iranians. There's a 1 in 10 chance he's Sunni
According to wiki it's more like 1 in 20 and a large part of the Inarian Sunnis seem to be Kurds. So chances are extremely low. Also the attacker was born in Germany and described himself as a German (in perfect German) after being labeled as a "Kanacke", which is a very negative word German for immigrant/foreigner. Source for that is a video which is supposed to show the attacker arguing with a cop (not a safe source) from a very far distance.
@border control: virtually impossible within the EU and already in action with outside countries esp. from the middle east. The deal with Turkey is nothing but a closed wall atm.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
Yes, its very possible for societies to be safe from the actions of, say, a schizophrenic (referencing not Munich here but DeepElemBlues, whom you quoted), by "abolishing multiculturalism." Do you ever read the shit the you write?
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society To clarify, it doesn't have to be purely based on ethnicity, a society needs its people to have something they all share, like religion, beliefs, background, etc.
I think complexity theory would seem to disagree with this. Homogeneity makes for fragility...
Since all of this is just ridiculous speculation anyway (there is literally zero indication of this being islamic, while the gunman himself clearly and audibly said "Ich bin deutscher ey" in response to being called a "kanacke"), let me also ridiculously speculate. Our school system fucking sucks and breeds inequality. I think you can add this attack to the list of high school shootings in Germany instead of to the list of Islamic Attacks and you'll be closer to the truth.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
Yes, its very possible for societies to be safe from the actions of, say, a schizophrenic (referencing not Munich here but DeepElemBlues, whom you quoted), by "abolishing multiculturalism." Do you ever read the shit the you write?
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society To clarify, it doesn't have to be purely based on ethnicity, a society needs its people to have something they all share, like religion, beliefs, background, etc.
I think complexity theory would seem to disagree with this. Homogeneity makes for fragility...
Since all of this is just ridiculous speculation anyway (there is literally zero indication of this being islamic, while the gunman himself clearly and audibly said "Ich bin deutscher ey" in response to being called a "kanacke"), let me also ridiculously speculate. Our school system fucking sucks and breeds inequality. I think you can add this attack to the list of high school shootings in Germany instead of to the list of Islamic Attacks and you'll be closer to the truth.
On July 23 2016 16:04 sharkie wrote: What does suck about German school system?
What doesn't? The Hauptschule/Realschule/Gymnasium dreiteilung for one thing, I actually happened to talk with someone about this just a few days ago, how she transferred to a Gymnasium from Realschule and spent the next two years being insulted by assholes. Our school system is pretty good at class warfare. Not saying this is very much related to what has happened in Munich. But, to quote the likes of Testie whenever something happens that may or may not be related to islam, "I wouldn't be surprised if it was!"
Poor guy, he's obviously a victim here.
No, people who become indiscriminately violent have obviously never had any problems in life, some of which may have not been their fault. I think the fact that our discourse always centers so much on victims is a problem (it has to do with melodrama becoming the overriding mode of our society, i think), but when a person that is 18 years old feels compelled to shoot people, I dare say something has gone wrong somewhere.
On July 23 2016 07:11 NukeD wrote: So radical islamists or not?
Non-credible sources. I repeat, non-credible sources: [...] Some photos of men arrested that don't look German. Credible: Still waiting. Conflicting reports or just not enough information. I wouldn't jump to conclusions on this particular shooting.
Fuck you for real, Testie. I was making sure that friends of mine in munich were safe yesterday before going to sleep and yet the thing that manages to upset me the most once more is you, you little shit.
In the video you can see the shooter being called a "kanake" to which he replies, basically "Dude, I'm german". And here you are talking about "men that don't look German." I'm going out on a limb here (you could say I'm jumping to conclusions, but then, you'd know what that looks like, wouldn't you?), but it almost seems like this fucker of a kid was resentful about the fact that most of German society throughout his life didn't treat him like a German, despite him being, well, German (well, Bavarian at any rate...). This is just mindless speculation, of course. Then again, people being thought of as "not german" despite being german is a problem in this country with much more history than fucking ISIS, so I think my speculation is better than yours.
On July 23 2016 16:04 sharkie wrote: What does suck about German school system?
What doesn't? The Hauptschule/Realschule/Gymnasium dreiteilung for one thing, I actually happened to talk with someone about this just a few days ago, how she transferred to a Gymnasium from Realschule and spent the next two years being insulted by assholes. Our school system is pretty good at class warfare. Not saying this is very much related to what has happened in Munich. But, to quote the likes of Testie whenever something happens that may or may not be related to islam, "I wouldn't be surprised if it was!"
No, people who become indiscriminately violent have obviously never had any problems in life, some of which may have not been their fault. I think the fact that our discourse always centers so much on victims is a problem (it has to do with melodrama becoming the overriding mode of our society, i think), but when a person that is 18 years old feels compelled to shoot people, I dare say something has gone wrong somewhere.
On July 23 2016 07:11 NukeD wrote: So radical islamists or not?
Non-credible sources. I repeat, non-credible sources: [...] Some photos of men arrested that don't look German. Credible: Still waiting. Conflicting reports or just not enough information. I wouldn't jump to conclusions on this particular shooting.
Fuck you for real, Testie. I was making sure that friends of mine in munich were safe yesterday before going to sleep and yet the thing that manages to upset me the most once more is you, you little shit.
In the video you can see the shooter being called a "kanake" to which he replies, basically "Dude, I'm german". And here you are talking about "men that don't look German." I'm going out on a limb here (you could say I'm jumping to conclusions, but then, you'd know what that looks like, wouldn't you?), but it almost seems like this fucker of a kid was resentful about the fact that most of German society throughout his life didn't treat him like a German, despite him being, well, German (well, Bavarian at any rate...). This is just mindless speculation, of course. Then again, people being thought of as "not german" despite being german is a problem in this country with much more history than fucking ISIS, so I think my speculation is better than yours.
And which school system is better than that? I actually like the division of schools, we have the same here in Austria.
The shooter had both German and Iranian citizenship. I don't know how Iran handles conferring citizenship so he could have been born in Iran or Germany. He doesn't fit the ISIS profile insofar as he doesn't appear to have a criminal record, petty or otherwise, unlike almost all the other ISIS cell members or ISIS inspired terrorists in Europe the last 2 years. Terrorists don't stand around in the open screaming vulgarities back and forth with civilians either. It looks like he's extremely emotionally disturbed or even insane from that video, but he could very well turn out to be inspired by ISIS or Islamic radicalism in general. He could be insane and inspired by Islamic radicalism. Or none of that, who knows.
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
The problem with this is that if you limit immigration, population growth slows dramatically and the entire economy stagnates (see: Japan for the last 20 years).
Quite on the contrary. Migrants are overrepresented in unemployment figures and high school dropout figures, in addition to being underqualified to work in countries with very high education levels and requirements.
Economically speaking, the kind of migration you need is that of highly qualified people who would have high-paying jobs and subsequently pay a lot of taxes. The migration Western Europe has been getting for a long time, however, is the opposite of that.
Unemployment figures among low-skilled workers are already quite high so saying that you need more (largely unskilled) migrants to compensate for a lack of population growth is nonsense.
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
The problem with this is that if you limit immigration, population growth slows dramatically and the entire economy stagnates (see: Japan for the last 20 years).
That's a rather shallow analysis.
Firstly, it's not like this problem is unsolvable. Second, if you want to talk immigration, look at labour force participation. Bringing in immigrants for economic reasons is like taking out a 20% annual interest loan, and spirals into an endless cycle once you realize that then the immigrants will want to bring in their older families and not reproduce as quickly either. Even economically a very short term focused plan.
You do realize that a big chunk of our immigrant population came here only for one reason, and that is to work. All the italians and Turks came here to work and helped us rebuild the nation after so many german were dead.
Another part of our immigrants are refugees from the balkan wars. It's fitting that NukeD speaks against multicultural societies when a lot of our immigrants came to us fleeing the barbaric cleansing of their societies in the balkans. We should have just shut our borders back then and not let bosnians or croatic muslems in our country so that the different militias could kill them some more. It must feel great to live in a country homogenous country when all you had to do for it is kill/rape/threaten/rob a few of them so they leave to just anywhere that is not your place.
I am never proud of being german, because i had no part in it. I just happened to be lucky to be born of german parenents. What i am proud of however, is that the society i live in and that i support by deed and by speech is trying to help those less fortunate then us.People that had to flee their countries because they feared for their life are welcome to germany and will hopefully alsways be welcome to Germany. We live with the consequences, like establising a subculture that won't immediately have a lot of common ground with the mainculture. Or having a lot of people that can't contribute to society and cost a lot of money. Or risk that amoing the millions of people we have taken in, there are some mentally sick or criminal or extremist people.
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
The problem with this is that if you limit immigration, population growth slows dramatically and the entire economy stagnates (see: Japan for the last 20 years).
That's a rather shallow analysis.
Firstly, it's not like this problem is unsolvable. Second, if you want to talk immigration, look at labour force participation. Bringing in immigrants for economic reasons is like taking out a 20% annual interest loan, and spirals into an endless cycle once you realize that then the immigrants will want to bring in their older families and not reproduce as quickly either. Even economically a very short term focused plan.
You do realize that a big chunk of our immigrant population came here only for one reason, and that is to work. All the italians and Turks came here to work and helped us rebuild the nation after so many german were dead.
Another part of our immigrants are refugees from the balkan wars. It's fitting that NukeD speaks against multicultural societies when a lot of our immigrants came to us fleeing the barbaric cleansing of their societies in the balkans. We should have just shut our borders back then and not let bosnians or croatic muslems in our country so that the different militias could kill them some more. It must feel great to live in a country homogenous country when all you had to do for it is kill/rape/threaten/rob a few of them so they leave to just anywhere that is not your place.
I am never proud of being german, because i had no part in it. I just happened to be lucky to be born of german parenents. What i am proud of however, is that the society i live in and that i support by deed and by speech is trying to help those less fortunate then us.People that had to flee their countries because they feared for their life are welcome to germany and will hopefully alsways be welcome to Germany. We live with the consequences, like establising a subculture that won't immediately have a lot of common ground with the mainculture. Or having a lot of people that can't contribute to society and cost a lot of money. Or risk that amoing the millions of people we have taken in, there are some mentally sick or criminal or extremist people.
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
I actually don't know any Slavic people who are unemployed. I know tons of Turks who are employed and drive BMWs. Funny huh?
On July 23 2016 10:18 TheNewEra wrote: German-Iranian. This means should this actually be an Islamist terrorattack that it most probably wasn't done by ISIS right?
Most of the ISIS attacks weren't actually done by ISIS members but by people "inspired" by them.
Its not like you need a membership card, just pledge allegiance right before you commit a crime and you are a member of ISIS.
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
The problem with this is that if you limit immigration, population growth slows dramatically and the entire economy stagnates (see: Japan for the last 20 years).
That's a rather shallow analysis.
Firstly, it's not like this problem is unsolvable. Second, if you want to talk immigration, look at labour force participation. Bringing in immigrants for economic reasons is like taking out a 20% annual interest loan, and spirals into an endless cycle once you realize that then the immigrants will want to bring in their older families and not reproduce as quickly either. Even economically a very short term focused plan.
You do realize that a big chunk of our immigrant population came here only for one reason, and that is to work. All the italians and Turks came here to work and helped us rebuild the nation after so many german were dead.
Another part of our immigrants are refugees from the balkan wars. It's fitting that NukeD speaks against multicultural societies when a lot of our immigrants came to us fleeing the barbaric cleansing of their societies in the balkans. We should have just shut our borders back then and not let bosnians or croatic muslems in our country so that the different militias could kill them some more. It must feel great to live in a country homogenous country when all you had to do for it is kill/rape/threaten/rob a few of them so they leave to just anywhere that is not your place.
I am never proud of being german, because i had no part in it. I just happened to be lucky to be born of german parenents. What i am proud of however, is that the society i live in and that i support by deed and by speech is trying to help those less fortunate then us.People that had to flee their countries because they feared for their life are welcome to germany and will hopefully alsways be welcome to Germany. We live with the consequences, like establising a subculture that won't immediately have a lot of common ground with the mainculture. Or having a lot of people that can't contribute to society and cost a lot of money. Or risk that amoing the millions of people we have taken in, there are some mentally sick or criminal or extremist people.
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
I actually don't know any Slavic people who are unemployed. I know tons of Turks who are employed and drive BMWs. Funny huh?
I assume you don't even know what a phobia is, and why you can't have "a small dose of phobia".
I also assume you like to look past what the person wants to say rather than what the term used officially describes. Its very obvious what i want to say and I am sure you know what it is. Anyway, I dont need to open that link to know what phobia is and what you want to say but, i dont care. You've taken this conversation in a very poor direction with your witty remarks.
It's not really witty if you say "a little bit of xenophobia is fine". If you meant something else, why not simply say so rather than going to a statement that quite literally doesn't make sense?
If you meant "we should have a healthy amount of caution towards islamists", sure. I agree. Xenophobia has nothing to do with that though. Pretty much the same with the topic in the first place, considering that there's ZERO hint that there's an islamic background other than "the dude was brown though".
edit: quite annoying that one can't actually understand the journalists -.-
Yes well what I want to say is, I support any countries wish to stay a homogenous nation. I think thats a legitimate concern that should be respected and not deemed as xenophobic. For instance, if Israel said they will limit non jewish immigration to less than 1% for wanting to stay a country of jews, I'd say that is their right and I would respect that. If Japan said they will not accept any white, black, hispanic or other immigrants above the threshold of lets say 5% for fearing of not remaining a homogenous country of Japanese people I would also recognize that as a legitimate concern and would approve of that. I don't think a country should be deemed xenophobic for wantig to preserve its national identity.
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society
The problem with this is that if you limit immigration, population growth slows dramatically and the entire economy stagnates (see: Japan for the last 20 years).
That's a rather shallow analysis.
Firstly, it's not like this problem is unsolvable. Second, if you want to talk immigration, look at labour force participation. Bringing in immigrants for economic reasons is like taking out a 20% annual interest loan, and spirals into an endless cycle once you realize that then the immigrants will want to bring in their older families and not reproduce as quickly either. Even economically a very short term focused plan.
You do realize that a big chunk of our immigrant population came here only for one reason, and that is to work. All the italians and Turks came here to work and helped us rebuild the nation after so many german were dead.
Another part of our immigrants are refugees from the balkan wars. It's fitting that NukeD speaks against multicultural societies when a lot of our immigrants came to us fleeing the barbaric cleansing of their societies in the balkans. We should have just shut our borders back then and not let bosnians or croatic muslems in our country so that the different militias could kill them some more. It must feel great to live in a country homogenous country when all you had to do for it is kill/rape/threaten/rob a few of them so they leave to just anywhere that is not your place.
I am never proud of being german, because i had no part in it. I just happened to be lucky to be born of german parenents. What i am proud of however, is that the society i live in and that i support by deed and by speech is trying to help those less fortunate then us.People that had to flee their countries because they feared for their life are welcome to germany and will hopefully alsways be welcome to Germany. We live with the consequences, like establising a subculture that won't immediately have a lot of common ground with the mainculture. Or having a lot of people that can't contribute to society and cost a lot of money. Or risk that amoing the millions of people we have taken in, there are some mentally sick or criminal or extremist people.
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
You like to assume what the other person thinks. Im just going to reference your holyness regarding refugees. I'm very much for giving asylum to ANY refugee as long as they are really a refugee. I'd support accepting them in billions. I've also said that multiculturism isnt inherently bad. It depends on which cultures make up your "multi culture". Number one criteria is how well the foreigners asimmilate in my opinion. I think europe today is too mindless regarding who they accept. Anyway the people i am adressing this whole thread are economic immigrants, not refugees.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
Yes, its very possible for societies to be safe from the actions of, say, a schizophrenic (referencing not Munich here but DeepElemBlues, whom you quoted), by "abolishing multiculturalism." Do you ever read the shit the you write?
I fully support this, I wish more people would see that a homogeneous society almost always is a better society To clarify, it doesn't have to be purely based on ethnicity, a society needs its people to have something they all share, like religion, beliefs, background, etc.
I think complexity theory would seem to disagree with this. Homogeneity makes for fragility...
Since all of this is just ridiculous speculation anyway (there is literally zero indication of this being islamic, while the gunman himself clearly and audibly said "Ich bin deutscher ey" in response to being called a "kanacke"), let me also ridiculously speculate. Our school system fucking sucks and breeds inequality. I think you can add this attack to the list of high school shootings in Germany instead of to the list of Islamic Attacks and you'll be closer to the truth.
Gopd job for summarizing my argument into a one liner that fits your view. Unfortunatelly I also read the shit you write.
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
This last comment of yours is actually very frightening. So in essence you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives, your fellow countrymen, just so you can pound your chest and show it to everyone what a good liberal, multicultured, politically always correct guy you are? You are willing to accept that killing people is the only way your ideologies can manifest, and you are proud of it? If this is not the case please clarify!
On the other hand if you are a liberal you should also accept the fact that there are other people who see things differently, and their opinions matter just as much as yours. Many people do not wish to kill their own countrymen and fellow Europeans for the sake of being liberal, diverse and multi cultured people. Justifying the killings of innocent lives because you want your ideology to happen, is not something i would like to take part in. Some people don't share your views. Thats why for example Hungary will have a vote on if they want to let in uncountable amounts of "refugees" in their country. It is a democratic process and if the majority says no, than you have to accept that, that some people are not ready to die for your ideologies. Even if you don't approve of this, you will have to accept the will of the majority (at least in Hungary) (It is also strange why no other europen country asks their citizens if they are okay with their politicians flooding their country with unregistered, unknown people).
edit: i just realised that this isn't the european politico-something thread. I didn't want to derail this thread from the original Munich shootings.
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
This last comment of yours is actually very frightening. So in essence you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives, your fellow countrymen, just so you can pound your chest and show it to everyone what a good liberal, multicultured, politically always correct guy you are? You are willing to accept that killing people is the only way your ideologies can manifest, and you are proud of it? If this is not the case please clarify!
Skipping that you're not using "kill" accurately in this, this is very much a remix of the security vs liberty debate. I'd argue that literally everyone is okay with letting a few people die because of how they view a perfect society, and I think it's pretty dishonest to be appalled at the notion. There are plenty of ways you could make a population safer that you (presumably) disagree with, unless you're okay with a police state and a big brother system.
Our society gets polarized more and more, I don't understand the reasons why fully. Years ago "all foreigners out" wasn't really a position. Today being very critical of immigration seems to reach the mainstream. On the other end of the spectrum we have a lot of borderline pathological do gooders and social justice warriors. Many of their views are incredibly warped, you can read some of them in this thread.
On the johnny foreigner side we have a lot of extremist muslims. Demanding seperated times for men and women in public swimming pools, prayer rooms on universities and dozens of other thing that would have been laughed out of the park by everybody 15 years ago. Today the state and society gives in, cementing lines of seperation, differences. We are putting overly religious freaks on a pedastal and we will pay the price for that in the future and the morbid side in me says we don't deserve better, that is what you get for catering for idiocy and tolerating religious zealots. Unfortunately the dudes killed ofen fall into the "normal" spectrum. A lot of more blood will flow until german and on the bigger scale western european societies will eventually wake up or not.We'll see
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
This last comment of yours is actually very frightening. So in essence you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives, your fellow countrymen, just so you can pound your chest and show it to everyone what a good liberal, multicultured, politically always correct guy you are? You are willing to accept that killing people is the only way your ideologies can manifest, and you are proud of it? If this is not the case please clarify!
On the other hand if you are a liberal you should also accept the fact that there are other people who see things differently, and their opinions matter just as much as yours. Many people do not wish to kill their own countrymen and fellow Europeans for the sake of being liberal, diverse and multi cultured people. Justifying the killings of innocent lives because you want your ideology to happen, is not something i would like to take part in. Some people don't share your views. Thats why for example Hungary will have a vote on if they want to let in uncountable amounts of "refugees" in their country. It is a democratic process and if the majority says no, than you have to accept that, that some people are not ready to die for your ideologies. Even if you don't approve of this, you will have to accept the will of the majority (at least in Hungary) (It is also strange why no other europen country asks their citizens if they are okay with their politicians flooding their country with unregistered, unknown people).
edit: i just realised that this isn't the european politico-something thread. I didn't want to derail this thread from the original Munich shootings.
These people are pretty extreme themselves, tolerating other opinions isn't really their strong suit.
On July 23 2016 16:32 DeepElemBlues wrote: The shooter had both German and Iranian citizenship. I don't know how Iran handles conferring citizenship so he could have been born in Iran or Germany. He doesn't fit the ISIS profile insofar as he doesn't appear to have a criminal record, petty or otherwise, unlike almost all the other ISIS cell members or ISIS inspired terrorists in Europe the last 2 years. Terrorists don't stand around in the open screaming vulgarities back and forth with civilians either. It looks like he's extremely emotionally disturbed or even insane from that video, but he could very well turn out to be inspired by ISIS or Islamic radicalism in general. He could be insane and inspired by Islamic radicalism. Or none of that, who knows.
AFAIK you only need an Iranian male ancestor to get Iranian citizenship. If he had a great-great-grandfather from Iran it's possible that he could get Iranian citizenship though he would need to apply for it ( which I guess is not to likely for an 18 year old). One of my acquaintances was such a case though, though it was a grandfather in his case. If your father is Iranian you automatically (if your parents are married) get the Iranian citizenship.
On July 23 2016 16:27 Surth wrote: Fuck you for real, Testie. I was making sure that friends of mine in munich were safe yesterday before going to sleep and yet the thing that manages to upset me the most once more is you, you little shit.
In the video you can see the shooter being called a "kanake" to which he replies, basically "Dude, I'm german". And here you are talking about "men that don't look German." I'm going out on a limb here (you could say I'm jumping to conclusions, but then, you'd know what that looks like, wouldn't you?), but it almost seems like this fucker of a kid was resentful about the fact that most of German society throughout his life didn't treat him like a German, despite him being, well, German (well, Bavarian at any rate...). This is just mindless speculation, of course. Then again, people being thought of as "not german" despite being german is a problem in this country with much more history than fucking ISIS, so I think my speculation is better than yours.
You're right. You are jumping to conclusions.
"Feels compelled to shoot people"
Look how much personal agency you've robbed the man of who just shot 26 people.
He did it because he didn't feel welcome enough, clearly. Congratulations on molding a cold blooded murderer into a baby who just didn't feel welcome enough. If this kid possessed as much empathy as you suggest, he never would have done this in the first place. Even if he worked himself up to it he wouldn't have continued pulling the trigger after his first bullet hit his first victim. If this kid was anything like the narrative you've created for him in your head, after pulling the trigger the first time he would have dropped the gun in horror in the crowd and started crying and asked for help. He'd know from personal experience that it's wrong to treat others how they don't want to be treated and to dehumanize them. I highly doubt the man was persecuted day in and day out by his peers enough to push him into doing this. Don't shift the blame, nobody forced this man to do what he did. So don't use the word "compelled" again. That's a terrible word to use for things like this.
From the way the man moved and talked, he simply seemed sick in the head and we're waiting for more details.
On July 23 2016 18:42 AngryMag wrote: Our society gets polarized more and more, I don't understand the reasons why fully. Years ago "all foreigners out" wasn't really a position. Today being very critical of immigration seems to reach the mainstream. On the other end of the spectrum we have a lot of borderline pathological do gooders and social justice warriors. Many of their views are incredibly warped, you can read some of them in this thread.
This is what concerns me most. Especially in Germany, there seems to be very little reasonable middle ground left. People just put blinders on and run toward one corner of extremism.
As a result, instead of uniting to face the actual, real challenges we have in front of us now we are screaming at each other in increasingly shrill voices.
On July 23 2016 18:59 zatic wrote: As a result, instead of uniting to face the actual, real challenges we have in front of us now we are screaming at each other in increasingly shrill voices.
It's because when people say things like this, they offer no solutions. This sounds like an empty platitude. Have heard it for decades from other communities. Also, you have to simply accept the fact that some people's solution is simply, "I have a solution. Kick them back out to where they came from. They're not worth the trouble." That person saying it didn't ask for it or to be a part of it, and wants nothing to do with it. And that is that persons right to choose that if he pays his taxes like a good citizen.
I'm not attacking you personally, there's a general anger at people who say, "we have to come up with solutions!" Great, you're interested in solutions, you name them. You come up with them, you offer them and we'll see if it's worth accepting. Odds are the solution is a class of people heavily dependent on welfare and more likely to be involved in crime with a lot of concessions to our society like increased violence, sexual assaults, and more racism and division that wouldn't have happened in the first place. So it's up to the people offering platitudes to offer something better.
The guy was born in Germany so this isn't particularly related to the incident so I'm not conflating the two issues of the gun attack with immigration.
- Attacker was using a 9mm Glock - Gun was probably illegally purchased, serial number filed off - Attacker was carrying about 300 shots of ammo
- Attacker was NOT shot by police, as was reported last night - Only wound was a self inflicted head shot
- When searching his apartment, they found plenty of material on previous spree killings / school shooting, including video and a book of profiles of school shooters - Since there is no evidence at all for a political motivated act, investigations turned back to state (not federal)
- Attacker still lived with his parents in Munich - Both parents work in Munich - There is a younger brother as well - None of family or acquaintances known to police
Has anyone read whats the deal with his parents btw? That's one thing I've come to realize that never gets any attention. Most of these fucked-up killers are young. So most must have had shit parenting, why is that never analyzed?
I was bullied at a very young age as well but I was taught to value life so I would never go out and slaughter innocent people.
On July 23 2016 18:42 AngryMag wrote: Our society gets polarized more and more, I don't understand the reasons why fully. Years ago "all foreigners out" wasn't really a position. Today being very critical of immigration seems to reach the mainstream. On the other end of the spectrum we have a lot of borderline pathological do gooders and social justice warriors. Many of their views are incredibly warped, you can read some of them in this thread.
This is what concerns me most. Especially in Germany, there seems to be very little reasonable middle ground left. People just put blinders on and run toward one corner of extremism.
As a result, instead of uniting to face the actual, real challenges we have in front of us now we are screaming at each other in increasingly shrill voices.
It is perfectly normal : - the decisions have already been made on migration before any kind of collective discussion ; - the mainstream analysis is, or was, almost entirely pro migration and negated any kind of discussion on the topic (how many "studies" on the economic benefit of migration ?).
So basically not only a big portion of the mainstream left basically argued that any arguments against migration is fueled by evil intent (xenophobia more than reason), but the democratic debate had no importance whatsoever since everything was already decided. That's the kind of situation that create extremism rather than a balanced view.
On July 23 2016 18:42 AngryMag wrote: Our society gets polarized more and more, I don't understand the reasons why fully. Years ago "all foreigners out" wasn't really a position. Today being very critical of immigration seems to reach the mainstream. On the other end of the spectrum we have a lot of borderline pathological do gooders and social justice warriors. Many of their views are incredibly warped, you can read some of them in this thread.
This is what concerns me most. Especially in Germany, there seems to be very little reasonable middle ground left. People just put blinders on and run toward one corner of extremism.
As a result, instead of uniting to face the actual, real challenges we have in front of us now we are screaming at each other in increasingly shrill voices.
Thats how Germany has always been, just that in the past alot of people had much less way to find out that they are not alone with their "extreme" positions. The germans never been a liberal country, liberalism is flowing in our society, but not based on the believes of the german people. In 5 years the thing we call today politicle middle ground will be vanish and completly ruled out by right wing and left wing moves.
To the act: CNN seems to be on the spirit of MSNBC (only source for Erdogan wantin asylum in Germany) with their Allah Akbar shoutings. Looks for me like the guys we had mass shooting in schools in the past years (Erfurt and Winnenden). Time might tell, but that will not matter, the rift that is pulling our society in Germany appart will become bigger and bigger each day and the attacks on our liberal society will become stronger and harder by any right wings, left wings and muslim migrants.
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
This last comment of yours is actually very frightening. So in essence you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives, your fellow countrymen, just so you can pound your chest and show it to everyone what a good liberal, multicultured, politically always correct guy you are? You are willing to accept that killing people is the only way your ideologies can manifest, and you are proud of it? If this is not the case please clarify!
Skipping that you're not using "kill" accurately in this, this is very much a remix of the security vs liberty debate. I'd argue that literally everyone is okay with letting a few people die because of how they view a perfect society, and I think it's pretty dishonest to be appalled at the notion. There are plenty of ways you could make a population safer that you (presumably) disagree with, unless you're okay with a police state and a big brother system.
That perfect society is pretty shitty if a group of innocent people gets murdered every week 'for the cause'.
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
This last comment of yours is actually very frightening. So in essence you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives, your fellow countrymen, just so you can pound your chest and show it to everyone what a good liberal, multicultured, politically always correct guy you are? You are willing to accept that killing people is the only way your ideologies can manifest, and you are proud of it? If this is not the case please clarify!
edit: i just realised that this isn't the european politico-something thread. I didn't want to derail this thread from the original Munich shootings.
Uhm. no. People have claimed that a multicultural soeciety with "the wrong cultures" is the reason for this shooting. I disagree on that, but i could see a better case for it in regards to Nice or the Würzburg attack. So if we would assume that without letting people of the wrong culture into France we had avoided Nice, then i disagree on the notion that this means we should thrive to abolish that multicultural society. Because our societies have a) shown basic humanity by letting refugees in and b) profited well enough from letting economic immigrants into the country. So even if these attacks are the direct result of having our current society we shouldn't change that society because the price is fair. "Ausländer Raus(Foreigners out)" is no possibility and not accepting refugees is below us.
On July 23 2016 18:10 D_lux wrote:
On the other hand if you are a liberal you should also accept the fact that there are other people who see things differently, and their opinions matter just as much as yours. Many people do not wish to kill their own countrymen and fellow Europeans for the sake of being liberal, diverse and multi cultured people. Justifying the killings of innocent lives because you want your ideology to happen, is not something i would like to take part in. Some people don't share your views. Thats why for example Hungary will have a vote on if they want to let in uncountable amounts of "refugees" in their country. It is a democratic process and if the majority says no, than you have to accept that, that some people are not ready to die for your ideologies. Even if you don't approve of this, you will have to accept the will of the majority (at least in Hungary) (It is also strange why no other europen country asks their citizens if they are okay with their politicians flooding their country with unregistered, unknown people).
You may have your opinion, i just think it's morally wrong and stupid. And i will do my best to not let it become the majority opinion of the country. If it becomes the majority opinion, then it should reflect the politics as well, because yes, that's what democracy is about. But i do hope that we are better then that.
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
This last comment of yours is actually very frightening. So in essence you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives, your fellow countrymen, just so you can pound your chest and show it to everyone what a good liberal, multicultured, politically always correct guy you are? You are willing to accept that killing people is the only way your ideologies can manifest, and you are proud of it? If this is not the case please clarify!
edit: i just realised that this isn't the european politico-something thread. I didn't want to derail this thread from the original Munich shootings.
Uhm. no. People have claimed that a multicultural soeciety with "the wrong cultures" is the reason for this shooting. I disagree on that, but i could see a better case for it in regards to Nice or the Würzburg attack. So if we would assume that without letting people of the wrong culture into France we had avoided Nice, then i disagree on the notion that this means we should thrive to abolish that multicultural society. Because our societies have a) shown basic humanity by letting refugees in and b) profited well enough from letting economic immigrants into the country. So even if these attacks are the direct result of having our current society we shouldn't change that society because the price is fair. "Ausländer Raus(Foreigners out)" is no possibility and not accepting refugees is below us.
On the other hand if you are a liberal you should also accept the fact that there are other people who see things differently, and their opinions matter just as much as yours. Many people do not wish to kill their own countrymen and fellow Europeans for the sake of being liberal, diverse and multi cultured people. Justifying the killings of innocent lives because you want your ideology to happen, is not something i would like to take part in. Some people don't share your views. Thats why for example Hungary will have a vote on if they want to let in uncountable amounts of "refugees" in their country. It is a democratic process and if the majority says no, than you have to accept that, that some people are not ready to die for your ideologies. Even if you don't approve of this, you will have to accept the will of the majority (at least in Hungary) (It is also strange why no other europen country asks their citizens if they are okay with their politicians flooding their country with unregistered, unknown people).
You may have your opinion, i just think it's morally wrong and stupid. And i will do my best to not let it become the majority opinion of the country. If it becomes the majority opinion, then it should reflect the politics as well, because yes, that's what democracy is about. But i do hope that we are better then that.
Denouncing other opinions as stupid, as below your own ideas, stating that society needs to pay the price and all that other stuff is borderline fascist rethoric. It is very funny how close you are to the people you pretend to hate so much in many positions.
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
This last comment of yours is actually very frightening. So in essence you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives, your fellow countrymen, just so you can pound your chest and show it to everyone what a good liberal, multicultured, politically always correct guy you are? You are willing to accept that killing people is the only way your ideologies can manifest, and you are proud of it? If this is not the case please clarify!
edit: i just realised that this isn't the european politico-something thread. I didn't want to derail this thread from the original Munich shootings.
Uhm. no. People have claimed that a multicultural soeciety with "the wrong cultures" is the reason for this shooting. I disagree on that, but i could see a better case for it in regards to Nice or the Würzburg attack. So if we would assume that without letting people of the wrong culture into France we had avoided Nice, then i disagree on the notion that this means we should thrive to abolish that multicultural society. Because our societies have a) shown basic humanity by letting refugees in and b) profited well enough from letting economic immigrants into the country. So even if these attacks are the direct result of having our current society we shouldn't change that society because the price is fair. "Ausländer Raus(Foreigners out)" is no possibility and not accepting refugees is below us.
On the other hand if you are a liberal you should also accept the fact that there are other people who see things differently, and their opinions matter just as much as yours. Many people do not wish to kill their own countrymen and fellow Europeans for the sake of being liberal, diverse and multi cultured people. Justifying the killings of innocent lives because you want your ideology to happen, is not something i would like to take part in. Some people don't share your views. Thats why for example Hungary will have a vote on if they want to let in uncountable amounts of "refugees" in their country. It is a democratic process and if the majority says no, than you have to accept that, that some people are not ready to die for your ideologies. Even if you don't approve of this, you will have to accept the will of the majority (at least in Hungary) (It is also strange why no other europen country asks their citizens if they are okay with their politicians flooding their country with unregistered, unknown people).
You may have your opinion, i just think it's morally wrong and stupid. And i will do my best to not let it become the majority opinion of the country. If it becomes the majority opinion, then it should reflect the politics as well, because yes, that's what democracy is about. But i do hope that we are better then that.
It's your opinion that is morally wrong, it's the best solution to create extremism. If you believe that welcoming refugee is the morally acceptable thing to do, and a very small portion of those refugee kill innocent people, considering those people to be an "acceptable price" is absolute shit. What you need to do, if you're responsible and believe in democratic values, is find a solution that would both stay morally acceptable (still welcoming refugee) but that reduce the casualty to apaise the people. Stating that "it is how it is" is the best way to let an extremist comes and take all the power. I'm very, very shocked that people don't understand that basic reality: misery and sadness, if not answered, create cruelty.
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
This last comment of yours is actually very frightening. So in essence you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives, your fellow countrymen, just so you can pound your chest and show it to everyone what a good liberal, multicultured, politically always correct guy you are? You are willing to accept that killing people is the only way your ideologies can manifest, and you are proud of it? If this is not the case please clarify!
edit: i just realised that this isn't the european politico-something thread. I didn't want to derail this thread from the original Munich shootings.
Uhm. no. People have claimed that a multicultural soeciety with "the wrong cultures" is the reason for this shooting. I disagree on that, but i could see a better case for it in regards to Nice or the Würzburg attack. So if we would assume that without letting people of the wrong culture into France we had avoided Nice, then i disagree on the notion that this means we should thrive to abolish that multicultural society. Because our societies have a) shown basic humanity by letting refugees in and b) profited well enough from letting economic immigrants into the country. So even if these attacks are the direct result of having our current society we shouldn't change that society because the price is fair. "Ausländer Raus(Foreigners out)" is no possibility and not accepting refugees is below us.
On the other hand if you are a liberal you should also accept the fact that there are other people who see things differently, and their opinions matter just as much as yours. Many people do not wish to kill their own countrymen and fellow Europeans for the sake of being liberal, diverse and multi cultured people. Justifying the killings of innocent lives because you want your ideology to happen, is not something i would like to take part in. Some people don't share your views. Thats why for example Hungary will have a vote on if they want to let in uncountable amounts of "refugees" in their country. It is a democratic process and if the majority says no, than you have to accept that, that some people are not ready to die for your ideologies. Even if you don't approve of this, you will have to accept the will of the majority (at least in Hungary) (It is also strange why no other europen country asks their citizens if they are okay with their politicians flooding their country with unregistered, unknown people).
You may have your opinion, i just think it's morally wrong and stupid. And i will do my best to not let it become the majority opinion of the country. If it becomes the majority opinion, then it should reflect the politics as well, because yes, that's what democracy is about. But i do hope that we are better then that.
I like how you claim the moral pedestal to these issues against the people having different opinion. Also the price is fair according to you? You are very easy to sacrifice life of others for your values.
The difference between us here on the right and the lefties is that we dont judge other values as better or worse like you do. We do appreciate all the things you point out, we just dont agree with the degree they are implemented, because quite realistically it is hurting our societies.
On July 23 2016 18:56 SK.Testie wrote: You're right. You are jumping to conclusions.
- When searching his apartment, they found plenty of material on previous spree killings / school shooting, including video and a book of profiles of school shooters
The correct ones, it seems. Of course, you perhaps could have reached correct conclusions as well if you had any knowledge of what happens in Germany (our sad history of school shootings and Amokläufe more generally) instead of reading Breitbart and screaming SHARIA LAW IN THE STREETS OF BERLIN all the time.
Look how much personal agency you've robbed the man of who just shot 26 people.
He did it because he didn't feel welcome enough, clearly. Congratulations on molding a cold blooded murderer into a baby who just didn't feel welcome enough. If this kid possessed as much empathy as you suggest, he never would have done this in the first place. Even if he worked himself up to it he wouldn't have continued pulling the trigger after his first bullet hit his first victim. If this kid was anything like the narrative you've created for him in your head, after pulling the trigger the first time he would have dropped the gun in horror in the crowd and started crying and asked for help. He'd know from personal experience that it's wrong to treat others how they don't want to be treated and to dehumanize them. I highly doubt the man was persecuted day in and day out by his peers enough to push him into doing this. Don't shift the blame, nobody forced this man to do what he did. So don't use the word "compelled" again. That's a terrible word to use for things like this.
From the way the man moved and talked, he simply seemed sick in the head and we're waiting for more details.
[/quote] Personal agency is something for enlightenment philosophers and libertarians, i.e. uneducated enlightenment philosophers. Personal agency has been dead for centuries, ask Foucault. I never painted him to be empathetic, by the way. You know whats a terrible word (or rather, phrase) to use? "German looking". And giving me shit about "waiting for more details" in a thread that literally popped up within 30 minutes of this shooting, within which you gleefully looked for islamic angles, is pretty rich.
Was the kid a murderer? Definitely. An asshole? I don't know, probably. Psychologically ill? Assumedly. But most people do not turn into murderers, or assholes, or psychologically ill, without something somewhere going very very wrong.
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
This last comment of yours is actually very frightening. So in essence you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives, your fellow countrymen, just so you can pound your chest and show it to everyone what a good liberal, multicultured, politically always correct guy you are? You are willing to accept that killing people is the only way your ideologies can manifest, and you are proud of it? If this is not the case please clarify!
edit: i just realised that this isn't the european politico-something thread. I didn't want to derail this thread from the original Munich shootings.
Uhm. no. People have claimed that a multicultural soeciety with "the wrong cultures" is the reason for this shooting. I disagree on that, but i could see a better case for it in regards to Nice or the Würzburg attack. So if we would assume that without letting people of the wrong culture into France we had avoided Nice, then i disagree on the notion that this means we should thrive to abolish that multicultural society. Because our societies have a) shown basic humanity by letting refugees in and b) profited well enough from letting economic immigrants into the country. So even if these attacks are the direct result of having our current society we shouldn't change that society because the price is fair. "Ausländer Raus(Foreigners out)" is no possibility and not accepting refugees is below us.
On July 23 2016 18:10 D_lux wrote:
On the other hand if you are a liberal you should also accept the fact that there are other people who see things differently, and their opinions matter just as much as yours. Many people do not wish to kill their own countrymen and fellow Europeans for the sake of being liberal, diverse and multi cultured people. Justifying the killings of innocent lives because you want your ideology to happen, is not something i would like to take part in. Some people don't share your views. Thats why for example Hungary will have a vote on if they want to let in uncountable amounts of "refugees" in their country. It is a democratic process and if the majority says no, than you have to accept that, that some people are not ready to die for your ideologies. Even if you don't approve of this, you will have to accept the will of the majority (at least in Hungary) (It is also strange why no other europen country asks their citizens if they are okay with their politicians flooding their country with unregistered, unknown people).
You may have your opinion, i just think it's morally wrong and stupid. And i will do my best to not let it become the majority opinion of the country. If it becomes the majority opinion, then it should reflect the politics as well, because yes, that's what democracy is about. But i do hope that we are better then that.
Denouncing other opinions as stupid, as below your own ideas, stating that society needs to pay the price and all that other stuff is borderline fascist rethoric. It is very funny how close you are to the people you pretend to hate so much in many positions.
Sure, i am guilty of thinking that right extremist ideas are stupid and below our society.
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
This last comment of yours is actually very frightening. So in essence you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives, your fellow countrymen, just so you can pound your chest and show it to everyone what a good liberal, multicultured, politically always correct guy you are? You are willing to accept that killing people is the only way your ideologies can manifest, and you are proud of it? If this is not the case please clarify!
edit: i just realised that this isn't the european politico-something thread. I didn't want to derail this thread from the original Munich shootings.
Uhm. no. People have claimed that a multicultural soeciety with "the wrong cultures" is the reason for this shooting. I disagree on that, but i could see a better case for it in regards to Nice or the Würzburg attack. So if we would assume that without letting people of the wrong culture into France we had avoided Nice, then i disagree on the notion that this means we should thrive to abolish that multicultural society. Because our societies have a) shown basic humanity by letting refugees in and b) profited well enough from letting economic immigrants into the country. So even if these attacks are the direct result of having our current society we shouldn't change that society because the price is fair. "Ausländer Raus(Foreigners out)" is no possibility and not accepting refugees is below us.
On July 23 2016 18:10 D_lux wrote:
On the other hand if you are a liberal you should also accept the fact that there are other people who see things differently, and their opinions matter just as much as yours. Many people do not wish to kill their own countrymen and fellow Europeans for the sake of being liberal, diverse and multi cultured people. Justifying the killings of innocent lives because you want your ideology to happen, is not something i would like to take part in. Some people don't share your views. Thats why for example Hungary will have a vote on if they want to let in uncountable amounts of "refugees" in their country. It is a democratic process and if the majority says no, than you have to accept that, that some people are not ready to die for your ideologies. Even if you don't approve of this, you will have to accept the will of the majority (at least in Hungary) (It is also strange why no other europen country asks their citizens if they are okay with their politicians flooding their country with unregistered, unknown people).
You may have your opinion, i just think it's morally wrong and stupid. And i will do my best to not let it become the majority opinion of the country. If it becomes the majority opinion, then it should reflect the politics as well, because yes, that's what democracy is about. But i do hope that we are better then that.
Denouncing other opinions as stupid, as below your own ideas, stating that society needs to pay the price and all that other stuff is borderline fascist rethoric. It is very funny how close you are to the people you pretend to hate so much in many positions.
Sure, i am guilty of thinking that right extremist ideas are stupid and below our society.
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
This last comment of yours is actually very frightening. So in essence you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives, your fellow countrymen, just so you can pound your chest and show it to everyone what a good liberal, multicultured, politically always correct guy you are? You are willing to accept that killing people is the only way your ideologies can manifest, and you are proud of it? If this is not the case please clarify!
edit: i just realised that this isn't the european politico-something thread. I didn't want to derail this thread from the original Munich shootings.
Uhm. no. People have claimed that a multicultural soeciety with "the wrong cultures" is the reason for this shooting. I disagree on that, but i could see a better case for it in regards to Nice or the Würzburg attack. So if we would assume that without letting people of the wrong culture into France we had avoided Nice, then i disagree on the notion that this means we should thrive to abolish that multicultural society. Because our societies have a) shown basic humanity by letting refugees in and b) profited well enough from letting economic immigrants into the country. So even if these attacks are the direct result of having our current society we shouldn't change that society because the price is fair. "Ausländer Raus(Foreigners out)" is no possibility and not accepting refugees is below us.
On July 23 2016 18:10 D_lux wrote:
On the other hand if you are a liberal you should also accept the fact that there are other people who see things differently, and their opinions matter just as much as yours. Many people do not wish to kill their own countrymen and fellow Europeans for the sake of being liberal, diverse and multi cultured people. Justifying the killings of innocent lives because you want your ideology to happen, is not something i would like to take part in. Some people don't share your views. Thats why for example Hungary will have a vote on if they want to let in uncountable amounts of "refugees" in their country. It is a democratic process and if the majority says no, than you have to accept that, that some people are not ready to die for your ideologies. Even if you don't approve of this, you will have to accept the will of the majority (at least in Hungary) (It is also strange why no other europen country asks their citizens if they are okay with their politicians flooding their country with unregistered, unknown people).
You may have your opinion, i just think it's morally wrong and stupid. And i will do my best to not let it become the majority opinion of the country. If it becomes the majority opinion, then it should reflect the politics as well, because yes, that's what democracy is about. But i do hope that we are better then that.
Denouncing other opinions as stupid, as below your own ideas, stating that society needs to pay the price and all that other stuff is borderline fascist rethoric. It is very funny how close you are to the people you pretend to hate so much in many positions.
Sure, i am guilty of thinking that right extremist ideas are stupid and below our society.
Being critical of unregistered immigration is not being a right wing extremist but who am I telling this
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
This last comment of yours is actually very frightening. So in essence you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives, your fellow countrymen, just so you can pound your chest and show it to everyone what a good liberal, multicultured, politically always correct guy you are? You are willing to accept that killing people is the only way your ideologies can manifest, and you are proud of it? If this is not the case please clarify!
edit: i just realised that this isn't the european politico-something thread. I didn't want to derail this thread from the original Munich shootings.
Uhm. no. People have claimed that a multicultural soeciety with "the wrong cultures" is the reason for this shooting. I disagree on that, but i could see a better case for it in regards to Nice or the Würzburg attack. So if we would assume that without letting people of the wrong culture into France we had avoided Nice, then i disagree on the notion that this means we should thrive to abolish that multicultural society. Because our societies have a) shown basic humanity by letting refugees in and b) profited well enough from letting economic immigrants into the country. So even if these attacks are the direct result of having our current society we shouldn't change that society because the price is fair. "Ausländer Raus(Foreigners out)" is no possibility and not accepting refugees is below us.
On July 23 2016 18:10 D_lux wrote:
On the other hand if you are a liberal you should also accept the fact that there are other people who see things differently, and their opinions matter just as much as yours. Many people do not wish to kill their own countrymen and fellow Europeans for the sake of being liberal, diverse and multi cultured people. Justifying the killings of innocent lives because you want your ideology to happen, is not something i would like to take part in. Some people don't share your views. Thats why for example Hungary will have a vote on if they want to let in uncountable amounts of "refugees" in their country. It is a democratic process and if the majority says no, than you have to accept that, that some people are not ready to die for your ideologies. Even if you don't approve of this, you will have to accept the will of the majority (at least in Hungary) (It is also strange why no other europen country asks their citizens if they are okay with their politicians flooding their country with unregistered, unknown people).
You may have your opinion, i just think it's morally wrong and stupid. And i will do my best to not let it become the majority opinion of the country. If it becomes the majority opinion, then it should reflect the politics as well, because yes, that's what democracy is about. But i do hope that we are better then that.
Denouncing other opinions as stupid, as below your own ideas, stating that society needs to pay the price and all that other stuff is borderline fascist rethoric. It is very funny how close you are to the people you pretend to hate so much in many positions.
Sure, i am guilty of thinking that right extremist ideas are stupid and below our society.
Actually you were the only one that posted anything close to extremist ideas.
I would be very interested which extremist ideas we are talking about here. I myself am not calling these fine people here right wing extremists, they are just very quick in talking against immigration and for homogenic states. While in theory this is not an extremist position the people advocating steps to assure nations become or stay homogenic usually are. Because there is no way of turning Germany in a homogenic nation with only one "culture". Except if we throw everyone out that does not fit our definition of being german. But nobody here is proposing this.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
If you just never explain what you actually mean by that, nobody can call you anything, right Germany has about 4 million muslims (according wo wikipedia). About half of them are germans. So when people propose to get more safety by removing "multiculturism", what do they mean?
The threat from immigrant cultures in germany is too low to sacrifice our freedom (of privacy for example) or their right to live among us.
Well, i guess all the discussions etc about multiculturalism, ISIS, migrationpolitics etc were kinda (as was said multiple times) pointless.
He apparently adored the Winneden amok runner. What this is, is a school shooting more or less. The migration background has zero importance for this, yet page after page you have idiotic people saying mystic things like "we made this bed, now we have to sleep in it" etc - because he's iranian.
I'm the first one to criticise europes in general and germanies (or merkels) especially migration politics, if there's a reason for it. My stance to the "open arms for everyone" should be known by following the european politics thread, where i had some rather vocal arguments with people about that. This here has nothing to do with that.
So the question one should be asking, how can we stop school shooters. Or, "student-shooters", considering that he didn't go on a rampage in a school, but a McDonalds. The same discussion we had when Winneden happened. The same discussion the US had after Sandy Hooks etc.
Don't shift the blame to right or left wing agendas - this isn't a political problem, it's a problem that we've seen before and apparently didn't do enough to prevent from happening again.
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
This last comment of yours is actually very frightening. So in essence you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives, your fellow countrymen, just so you can pound your chest and show it to everyone what a good liberal, multicultured, politically always correct guy you are? You are willing to accept that killing people is the only way your ideologies can manifest, and you are proud of it? If this is not the case please clarify!
Skipping that you're not using "kill" accurately in this, this is very much a remix of the security vs liberty debate. I'd argue that literally everyone is okay with letting a few people die because of how they view a perfect society, and I think it's pretty dishonest to be appalled at the notion. There are plenty of ways you could make a population safer that you (presumably) disagree with, unless you're okay with a police state and a big brother system.
That perfect society is pretty shitty if a group of innocent people gets murdered every week 'for the cause'.
They aren't murdered 'for the cause' though, and you're right, that would be pretty shitty.
On July 23 2016 20:50 Broetchenholer wrote: I would be very interested which extremist ideas we are talking about here. I myself am not calling these fine people here right wing extremists, they are just very quick in talking against immigration and for homogenic states. While in theory this is not an extremist position the people advocating steps to assure nations become or stay homogenic usually are. Because there is no way of turning Germany in a homogenic nation with only one "culture". Except if we throw everyone out that does not fit our definition of being german. But nobody here is proposing this.
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
Again you putting words in my mouth. I proposed that did I?
On July 23 2016 08:26 DeepElemBlues wrote: I don't know what cynicism or realism is here but it's pretty real that Western governments in general are failing at preventing these attacks right now, it doesn't matter if it's Muslims or Nazis or schizophrenics. Governments are supposed to handle it regardless of who is doing it. The frequency of attacks is increasing and people will not put up with the current crop of politicians if this continues.
This isn't the first time that people are attacking democracy in Western Europe and it isn't going to be the last time. There's only so much you can do in a liberal democracy. The reaction can't be to build a police or surveillance state or buy into the ridiculous race war rhetoric.
Of course it's the government's job to protect the citizens, but it's also everybody's job (including the media) to accept the limits of how much safety is possible in a liberal society.
Its actually very possible for those societies to be very safe. You'll have to abolish "multiculturism" first tho (at least to a degree).
You can't abolish multiculturalism without ethnic cleansings or mass deportations. Even if you assume multicultarism is evil, you still have to admit it's an evil lesser than these two.
Yes I admit that.
I also didn't propose of removing multicuturism, I only recognized that as a part of the problem.
Multiculturalism is a flawed philosophical thinking defended by the likes of Charles Taylor, it is not the existence of a diversity of culture within a country, which is just a fact. A multicultural society and a multiculturalist society are two different thing : a multicultural society is just a normal society, there is no such thing as cultural homogeneity - rich and poor have different culture, generations have different cultures, etc. A multiculturalist society is a society that value that cultural diversity, and that acknowledge the diversity of custom, and even promotes it, by giving specific rights to minorities for exemple.
This is the reason why Merkel can both argue that multiculturalism has failed and accept refugees : you can accept people coming from different cultures and still stay a non-multiculturalist society, just by promoting a common culture that everybody have to accept (that generally has a body in the laws of the country) and refusing to legally acknowledge any kind of diversity (while still permitting, in the daily life, the necessary cultural diversity that permit life and change, and which exist in all society, even in Japan).
I wonder when the media is going to stop hyping the shit out of these events for money? They've played their part really. Sensationalizing massacres like they are. Disgusting
Our society will hopefully understand that if this is the price for a free, liberal, diverse and colourful society, it is more then cheap. I am sad about all victims of this tragedy, but still, as a society, we have to pay that price.
This last comment of yours is actually very frightening. So in essence you are willing to sacrifice innocent lives, your fellow countrymen, just so you can pound your chest and show it to everyone what a good liberal, multicultured, politically always correct guy you are? You are willing to accept that killing people is the only way your ideologies can manifest, and you are proud of it? If this is not the case please clarify!
edit: i just realised that this isn't the european politico-something thread. I didn't want to derail this thread from the original Munich shootings.
Uhm. no. People have claimed that a multicultural soeciety with "the wrong cultures" is the reason for this shooting. I disagree on that, but i could see a better case for it in regards to Nice or the Würzburg attack. So if we would assume that without letting people of the wrong culture into France we had avoided Nice, then i disagree on the notion that this means we should thrive to abolish that multicultural society. Because our societies have a) shown basic humanity by letting refugees in and b) profited well enough from letting economic immigrants into the country. So even if these attacks are the direct result of having our current society we shouldn't change that society because the price is fair. "Ausländer Raus(Foreigners out)" is no possibility and not accepting refugees is below us.
On July 23 2016 18:10 D_lux wrote:
On the other hand if you are a liberal you should also accept the fact that there are other people who see things differently, and their opinions matter just as much as yours. Many people do not wish to kill their own countrymen and fellow Europeans for the sake of being liberal, diverse and multi cultured people. Justifying the killings of innocent lives because you want your ideology to happen, is not something i would like to take part in. Some people don't share your views. Thats why for example Hungary will have a vote on if they want to let in uncountable amounts of "refugees" in their country. It is a democratic process and if the majority says no, than you have to accept that, that some people are not ready to die for your ideologies. Even if you don't approve of this, you will have to accept the will of the majority (at least in Hungary) (It is also strange why no other europen country asks their citizens if they are okay with their politicians flooding their country with unregistered, unknown people).
You may have your opinion, i just think it's morally wrong and stupid. And i will do my best to not let it become the majority opinion of the country. If it becomes the majority opinion, then it should reflect the politics as well, because yes, that's what democracy is about. But i do hope that we are better then that.
Denouncing other opinions as stupid, as below your own ideas, stating that society needs to pay the price and all that other stuff is borderline fascist rethoric. It is very funny how close you are to the people you pretend to hate so much in many positions.
Sure, i am guilty of thinking that right extremist ideas are stupid and below our society.
Actually you were the only one that posted anything close to extremist ideas.
i guess you missed the one guy talking about ethnic cleansing. good for you!
On July 23 2016 20:56 m4ini wrote: Well, i guess all the discussions etc about multiculturalism, ISIS, migrationpolitics etc were kinda (as was said multiple times) pointless.
He apparently adored the Winneden amok runner. What this is, is a school shooting more or less. The migration background has zero importance for this, yet page after page you have idiotic people saying mystic things like "we made this bed, now we have to sleep in it" etc - because he's iranian.
I'm the first one to criticise europes in general and germanies (or merkels) especially migration politics, if there's a reason for it. My stance to the "open arms for everyone" should be known by following the european politics thread, where i had some rather vocal arguments with people about that. This here has nothing to do with that.
So the question one should be asking, how can we stop school shooters. Or, "student-shooters", considering that he didn't go on a rampage in a school, but a McDonalds. The same discussion we had when Winneden happened. The same discussion the US had after Sandy Hooks etc.
Don't shift the blame to right or left wing agendas - this isn't a political problem, it's a problem that we've seen before and apparently didn't do enough to prevent from happening again.
What can we do? People keep saying 'mental health care' when incidents like these happen but we're talking about statistical outliers of 1 in many millions, where you're into deep personal factors and well past any all-encompassing government program. This guy was receiving psychiatric care in the past, but so do millions of people, and we can't expect psychiatrists to predict such outbursts with any kind of useful accuracy.
The same goes for law enforcement. Often after an attack we get reports that the perpetrator was 'on a list' (wasn't the case for this kid), but there are so many people on such lists that we'd need an immense amount of manpower to keep track of them all. Devoting a disproportionately large amount of resources for further prevention is not feasible and surveillance technology is not even close to being there yet for attacks to be almost entirely prevented with an acceptable amount of manpower. http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-22718000
And then there's the media. Coverage for these events is often criticized and accused of causing an epidemic, a lot of these attacks are inspired by previous ones, this kid studied other mass shootings and their perpetrators. But what can you do about that? Even if we knew for certain that suppressing news about attacks would reduce them, it's not a price people are willing to pay.
Well i do know what we shouldn't do. (edit: @ Dan HH)
Argue multiculturalism, immigration etc. here purely because he was a brown person, which is of zero importance to this case now. One could ask the question how an 18 year old boy was able to buy a Glock 17 with 300 rounds of ammo, or why the police is unable to do the same (to arrest illegal arms dealers). Things like that.
Of course. You can't "catch em all", the sad truth is that cases like this one will always happen. You can't prevent every single insane person from going rampage. But i'm not convinced that you can't make it hard enough to prevent at least high death tolls, starting by simply going after the weapons. It won't cure the problem, but it might help.
And lets be clear: if an 18 year old internet troll on Hartz4 (welfare, so poor) can buy a lethal gun with enough ammo to potentially kill hundreds of people, the police isn't doing enough to prevent people from buying/selling guns. And this weapon had the serial number filed out, so he definitely didn't take it from his father who owned it legally.
did you guys see the hero that basically pinned the shooter down for minutes by shouting at him angrily?
Did you see the commendations we had 15 pages ago about that person?
On July 23 2016 21:28 WhiteDog wrote: Multiculturalism is a flawed philosophical thinking defended by the likes of Charles Taylor, it is not the existence of a diversity of culture within a country, which is just a fact. A multicultural society and a multiculturalist society are two different thing : a multicultural society is just a normal society, there is no such thing as cultural homogeneity - rich and poor have different culture, generations have different cultures, etc. A multiculturalist society is a society that value that cultural diversity, and that acknowledge the diversity of custom, and even promotes it, by giving specific rights to minorities for exemple.
This is the reason why Merkel can both argue that multiculturalism has failed and accept refugees : you can accept people coming from different cultures and still stay a non-multiculturalist society, just by promoting a common culture that everybody have to accept (that generally has a body in the laws of the country) and refusing to legally acknowledge any kind of diversity (while still permitting, in the daily life, the necessary cultural diversity that permit life and change, and which exist in all society, even in Japan).
On July 23 2016 23:51 LaNague wrote: no sorry, i went back a few pages but it was all about islam for some reason
Yeah, i know.. Because, again, this is totally the place where islam, multiculturalism etc have to be discussed. In the wake of a school shooting/student shooter, whatever you wanna call it.
I, a brazilian, used to witness tv news every single day, 24/7, talking about local murdering, robbery, assaults, rape and all that there is bad in society, am actually afraid to fly to Europe and USA...
The things that are happening over there are so fucking random that it actually looks more scary than the dangers we endure in Brazil.
These lone wolfs appear out of the blue, the common citizen cannot predict anything, cannot know if he is under danger or not, and it really feels scary...
Its no wonder people get dangerously obsessed with mass killings when we have 24/7 mass media and social media coverage with brutally violent images of real murder on twitter feeds etc. Saturation coverage of mass murder and terrorism has to stop.
On July 24 2016 00:07 fabiano wrote: What a time we are living in, huh?
I, a brazilian, used to witness tv news every single day, 24/7, talking about local murdering, robbery, assaults, rape and all that there is bad in society, am actually afraid to fly to Europe and USA...
The things that are happening over there are so fucking random that it actually looks more scary than the dangers we endure in Brazil.
These lone wolfs appear out of the blue, the common citizen cannot predict anything, cannot know if he is under danger or not, and it really feels scary...
I get what you're saying but there's much more common death causes that you can't predict or do anything against. You can respect every possible driving rule and you're still so much more likely to die in a car accident than in a random shooting. But this doesn't make you afraid of driving.
On July 23 2016 21:28 WhiteDog wrote: Multiculturalism is a flawed philosophical thinking defended by the likes of Charles Taylor, it is not the existence of a diversity of culture within a country, which is just a fact. A multicultural society and a multiculturalist society are two different thing : a multicultural society is just a normal society, there is no such thing as cultural homogeneity - rich and poor have different culture, generations have different cultures, etc. A multiculturalist society is a society that value that cultural diversity, and that acknowledge the diversity of custom, and even promotes it, by giving specific rights to minorities for exemple.
This is the reason why Merkel can both argue that multiculturalism has failed and accept refugees : you can accept people coming from different cultures and still stay a non-multiculturalist society, just by promoting a common culture that everybody have to accept (that generally has a body in the laws of the country) and refusing to legally acknowledge any kind of diversity (while still permitting, in the daily life, the necessary cultural diversity that permit life and change, and which exist in all society, even in Japan).
isn't it the biggest challenge though ?
Yeah but all countries have historical solutions - in France it was the Republic, the values of the revolution and the enlightment, the language and the litterature, the school. What remain of all that is the question.
On July 24 2016 00:07 fabiano wrote: What a time we are living in, huh?
I, a brazilian, used to witness tv news every single day, 24/7, talking about local murdering, robbery, assaults, rape and all that there is bad in society, am actually afraid to fly to Europe and USA...
The things that are happening over there are so fucking random that it actually looks more scary than the dangers we endure in Brazil.
These lone wolfs appear out of the blue, the common citizen cannot predict anything, cannot know if he is under danger or not, and it really feels scary...
No, you shouldn't be afraid to fly to Europe. Except if you are the kind of person who doesn't go outside because he fears being struck by a lightning, hjmmm,i am not sure which one actually has bigger odds of happening.
That doesn't mean there is stuff that shouldn't change. Inequality is imo the biggest common denominator to add on the varied reasons why these kind of things happens.
On July 23 2016 23:51 LaNague wrote: no sorry, i went back a few pages but it was all about islam for some reason
Yeah, i know.. Because, again, this is totally the place where islam, multiculturalism etc have to be discussed. In the wake of a school shooting/student shooter, whatever you wanna call it.
Muslims radicals will continue murdering people, en masse, in Europe and this right here is why.
On July 23 2016 23:51 LaNague wrote: no sorry, i went back a few pages but it was all about islam for some reason
Yeah, i know.. Because, again, this is totally the place where islam, multiculturalism etc have to be discussed. In the wake of a school shooting/student shooter, whatever you wanna call it.
Muslims radicals will continue murdering people, en masse, in Europe and this right here is why.
Are you unable to understand why talking about islamist terrorism on a thread about a tragedy where it wasn't involved is not only distasteful, but more importantly, irrelevant to the discussion ?
Or are there any news i am not informed where the kid was radicalized by ISIS ? Or how they call it, the radicalization express.
On July 23 2016 23:51 LaNague wrote: no sorry, i went back a few pages but it was all about islam for some reason
Yeah, i know.. Because, again, this is totally the place where islam, multiculturalism etc have to be discussed. In the wake of a school shooting/student shooter, whatever you wanna call it.
Muslims radicals will continue murdering people, en masse, in Europe and this right here is why.
On July 23 2016 23:51 LaNague wrote: no sorry, i went back a few pages but it was all about islam for some reason
Yeah, i know.. Because, again, this is totally the place where islam, multiculturalism etc have to be discussed. In the wake of a school shooting/student shooter, whatever you wanna call it.
Muslims radicals will continue murdering people, en masse, in Europe and this right here is why.
Muslim radicals will murder people in Europe because we didn't pretend that a non religiously motivated attack was an Islamist attack? How did /pol/ convince you of this one? It's one the most nonsensical arguments I've read all year
On July 23 2016 23:51 LaNague wrote: no sorry, i went back a few pages but it was all about islam for some reason
Yeah, i know.. Because, again, this is totally the place where islam, multiculturalism etc have to be discussed. In the wake of a school shooting/student shooter, whatever you wanna call it.
Muslims radicals will continue murdering people, en masse, in Europe and this right here is why.
Muslim radicals will murder people in Europe because we didn't pretend that a non religiously motivated attack was an Islamist attack? How did /pol/ convince you of this one? It's one the most nonsensical arguments I've read all year
On July 23 2016 23:51 LaNague wrote: no sorry, i went back a few pages but it was all about islam for some reason
Yeah, i know.. Because, again, this is totally the place where islam, multiculturalism etc have to be discussed. In the wake of a school shooting/student shooter, whatever you wanna call it.
Muslims radicals will continue murdering people, en masse, in Europe and this right here is why.
Muslim radicals will murder people in Europe because we didn't pretend that a non religiously motivated attack was an Islamist attack? How did /pol/ convince you of this one? It's one the most nonsensical arguments I've read all year
You didn't get it. Move on.
There's nothing to get. The reason these 'arguments' you guys copy paste from places like /r/the_donald are nonsensical to the rest of the world is not because you are misunderstood geniuses, but because they crumble from the mildest waft of scrutiny.
On July 23 2016 23:51 LaNague wrote: no sorry, i went back a few pages but it was all about islam for some reason
Yeah, i know.. Because, again, this is totally the place where islam, multiculturalism etc have to be discussed. In the wake of a school shooting/student shooter, whatever you wanna call it.
Muslims radicals will continue murdering people, en masse, in Europe and this right here is why.
Muslim radicals will murder people in Europe because we didn't pretend that a non religiously motivated attack was an Islamist attack? How did /pol/ convince you of this one? It's one the most nonsensical arguments I've read all year
You didn't get it. Move on.
There's nothing to get. The reason these 'arguments' you guys copy paste from places like /r/the_donald are nonsensical to the rest of the world is not because you are misunderstood geniuses, but because they crumble from the mildest waft of scrutiny.
On July 24 2016 00:14 SK.Testie wrote: Nah I'm still pretty sure people should be scared of Brazil. + Show Spoiler +
Murder rate
And just so I don't bother someones OCD the top 10
Exactly!
People actually "expect" something bad when coming to Brazil, because it is very known the place is dangerous overall. When you walk around here, it is very clear which places are likely to have something bad to happen, and which ones it is more unlikely of such. All in all, you are more aware of possible problems.
However, in rich european countries such as Germany or France, I believe you usually have a feeling of being really safe in most of the places, so you turn your guard off.
Not sure if I can make myself be understood, but for me, I had this picture in my mind of Germany being a heavenly, peaceful and safe place for a vacation, a place where I could walk around the streets, be in a crowd, day or night, and stay relatively safe.
With this immigration crisis, the recurrent terrorist attacks and their consequences, that picture I had is fading away. Europe is becoming a place where out of nowhere something really bad might happen at any time, anywhere, with anyone... totally unpredictable. :/
But you guys are right, I should not be afraid, it's just that I find it quite shocking... I don't know, I just posted it in an emotional moment lol
On July 23 2016 23:51 LaNague wrote: no sorry, i went back a few pages but it was all about islam for some reason
Yeah, i know.. Because, again, this is totally the place where islam, multiculturalism etc have to be discussed. In the wake of a school shooting/student shooter, whatever you wanna call it.
Muslims radicals will continue murdering people, en masse, in Europe and this right here is why.
Muslim radicals will murder people in Europe because we didn't pretend that a non religiously motivated attack was an Islamist attack? How did /pol/ convince you of this one? It's one the most nonsensical arguments I've read all year
I wasn't clear.
If the killer shoots up a night-club, it's because he's a self-hating homosexual. If they shoot a work party, it's because his Jewish coworker was an Islamaphobe. If they shoot up a magazine, it's because the magazine incited them. If the kid said he's bullied it is definitely that. There will be no further investigation or discussion as to possible motives because we instantly know. This time we know. Before, when everyone thought he was a Muslim it was "going to take years to unravel his motivations and we may never fully understand."
Basically, if there is any possible connection to anything other than radical Islam, the discussion of Islamic terrorism and migration and multiculturalism (even if clearly relevant, to some degree, to this particular case) are instantly considered taboo and no longer relevant and all discussion is shut down with "How dare you bring those topics up in this time of horrific tragedy!" and anyone bringing them up is treated as an insensitive moron.
It's all very tiresome. But if that's the way people want it, that's the way they'll get it. So I'll say no further on it.
No, it is the other way around. You can perfectly see any news and media coverage going full radical islam narrative from the get go. It's more about you not being able to give up on that narrative even when it is blatantly obvious that it doesn't fit what happened (ie guy shouting he is a german, hating turks and inmigrants, instead of Allahu Ackbar'ing around, and this is not speculation, you had watched/heard it, unlike whatever theory people comes up about the Orlando shooter).
And this last response reaches new levels of delusion to justify yourself in this single subject.
On July 24 2016 01:53 Jockmcplop wrote: Could it be that people notice when the media does something they don't like, but fail to notice when it does something that supports their views?
Yep you are right on that, it goes both ways generally speaking. Except not being radical islam doesn't support any of my views, as i don't see multiculturalist societies as the paragon to achieve, or inmigration/diversity as genuinely positive.
On July 24 2016 00:14 SK.Testie wrote: Nah I'm still pretty sure people should be scared of Brazil. + Show Spoiler +
Murder rate
And just so I don't bother someones OCD the top 10
Exactly!
People actually "expect" something bad when coming to Brazil, because it is very known the place is dangerous overall. When you walk around here, it is very clear which places are likely to have something bad to happen, and which ones it is more unlikely of such. All in all, you are more aware of possible problems.
However, in rich european countries such as Germany or France, I believe you usually have a feeling of being really safe in most of the places, so you turn your guard off.
Not sure if I can make myself be understood, but for me, I had this picture in my mind of Germany being a heavenly, peaceful and safe place for a vacation, a place where I could walk around the streets, be in a crowd, day or night, and stay relatively safe.
With this immigration crisis, the recurrent terrorist attacks and their consequences, that picture I had is fading away. Europe is becoming a place where out of nowhere something really bad might happen at any time, anywhere, with anyone... totally unpredictable. :/
But you guys are right, I should not be afraid, it's just that I find it quite shocking... I don't know, I just posted it in an emotional moment lol
Nah I understood you perfectly and you're being very clear in your meaning and the impression you are conveying. I was just making a joke. ;p
These things in Europe get reported very heavily on because it's such a culture shock to a very peaceful society for the most part. Also the scale of certain tragedies is really quite large lately. And your picture of Germany in your head is for the most part true.
On July 24 2016 01:46 Cowboy24 wrote: Basically, if there is any possible connection to anything other than radical Islam, the discussion of Islamic terrorism and migration and multiculturalism (even if clearly relevant, to some degree, to this particular case) are instantly considered taboo and no longer relevant and all discussion is shut down with "How dare you bring those topics up in this time of horrific tragedy!" and anyone bringing them up is treated as an insensitive moron.
It's all very tiresome. But if that's the way people want it, that's the way they'll get it. So I'll say no further on it.
I will only say this. Do you realize that, to me (and I suspect some others), it feels like the exact opposite is the case?
On July 23 2016 23:51 LaNague wrote: no sorry, i went back a few pages but it was all about islam for some reason
Yeah, i know.. Because, again, this is totally the place where islam, multiculturalism etc have to be discussed. In the wake of a school shooting/student shooter, whatever you wanna call it.
Muslims radicals will continue murdering people, en masse, in Europe and this right here is why.
Muslim radicals will murder people in Europe because we didn't pretend that a non religiously motivated attack was an Islamist attack? How did /pol/ convince you of this one? It's one the most nonsensical arguments I've read all year
I wasn't clear.
If the killer shoots up a night-club, it's because he's a self-hating homosexual. If they shoot a work party, it's because his Jewish coworker was an Islamaphobe. If they shoot up a magazine, it's because the magazine incited them. If the kid said he's bullied it is definitely that. There will be no further investigation or discussion as to possible motives because we instantly know. This time we know. Before, when everyone thought he was a Muslim it was "going to take years to unravel his motivations and we may never fully understand."
Basically, if there is any possible connection to anything other than radical Islam, the discussion of Islamic terrorism and migration and multiculturalism (even if clearly relevant, to some degree, to this particular case) are instantly considered taboo and no longer relevant and all discussion is shut down with "How dare you bring those topics up in this time of horrific tragedy!" and anyone bringing them up is treated as an insensitive moron.
It's all very tiresome. But if that's the way people want it, that's the way they'll get it. So I'll say no further on it.
I'll just leave this here:
The 18-year-old gunman who killed nine people in Munich was obsessed with mass shootings but had no known links to the Islamic State group, German police say.
Written material on such attacks was found in his room. Munich's police chief spoke of links to the massacre by Norway's Anders Behring Breivik.
Seven of the dead were teenagers. Three victims were from Kosovo, three from Turkey and one from Greece. [note on my part: We know from the video that he was screaming something along the lines of "fucking foreigners" in german]
Police say the Munich-born gunman had been in psychiatric care, receiving treatment for depression.
Munich police chief Hubertus Andrae said there was an "obvious" link between the new attack and Friday's fifth anniversary of Breivik's attacks in Norway, when he murdered 77 people.
now I know people, especially from the EU, are shitting on the US for all the mass shootings they have and whatnot. But this isn't exactly the first time a non-terrorist shooting happened in Germany. It's been some time but we had those distraught boy steals gun from dad and goes on a killingspree in his school for being bullied events as well in the past. It's just overshadowed by all the islamic terror attacks the last couple years. It's not exactly the same but in my opinion it's closer to that than a terrorist attack
On July 23 2016 23:51 LaNague wrote: no sorry, i went back a few pages but it was all about islam for some reason
Yeah, i know.. Because, again, this is totally the place where islam, multiculturalism etc have to be discussed. In the wake of a school shooting/student shooter, whatever you wanna call it.
Muslims radicals will continue murdering people, en masse, in Europe and this right here is why.
Muslim radicals will murder people in Europe because we didn't pretend that a non religiously motivated attack was an Islamist attack? How did /pol/ convince you of this one? It's one the most nonsensical arguments I've read all year
I wasn't clear.
If the killer shoots up a night-club, it's because he's a self-hating homosexual. If they shoot a work party, it's because his Jewish coworker was an Islamaphobe. If they shoot up a magazine, it's because the magazine incited them. If the kid said he's bullied it is definitely that. There will be no further investigation or discussion as to possible motives because we instantly know. This time we know. Before, when everyone thought he was a Muslim it was "going to take years to unravel his motivations and we may never fully understand."
Basically, if there is any possible connection to anything other than radical Islam, the discussion of Islamic terrorism and migration and multiculturalism (even if clearly relevant, to some degree, to this particular case) are instantly considered taboo and no longer relevant and all discussion is shut down with "How dare you bring those topics up in this time of horrific tragedy!" and anyone bringing them up is treated as an insensitive moron.
It's all very tiresome. But if that's the way people want it, that's the way they'll get it. So I'll say no further on it.
I'll just leave this here:
The 18-year-old gunman who killed nine people in Munich was obsessed with mass shootings but had no known links to the Islamic State group, German police say.
Written material on such attacks was found in his room. Munich's police chief spoke of links to the massacre by Norway's Anders Behring Breivik.
Seven of the dead were teenagers. Three victims were from Kosovo, three from Turkey and one from Greece. [note on my part: We know from the video that he was screaming something along the lines of "fucking foreigners" in german]
Police say the Munich-born gunman had been in psychiatric care, receiving treatment for depression.
Munich police chief Hubertus Andrae said there was an "obvious" link between the new attack and Friday's fifth anniversary of Breivik's attacks in Norway, when he murdered 77 people.
now I know people, especially from the EU, are shitting on the US for all the mass shootings they have and whatnot. But this isn't exactly the first time a non-terrorist shooting happened in Germany. It's been some time but we had those distraught boy steals gun from dad and goes on a killingspree in his school for being bullied events as well in the past. It's just overshadowed by all the islamic terror attacks the last couple years. It's not exactly the same but in my opinion it's closer to that than a terrorist attack
I find it strange how when there's an ideology driven terrorist attack everyone seems to know what to do, but when there's a mental health driven mass killing everyone just says "Oh well the guy went nuts what can you do?" There's actually answers to this stuff but people don't seem to want to engage about it. Maybe its because the solutions are boring and involve spending large amounts of money on stuff like good free mental healthcare, compulsory mental health education for very young pupils. That and the solutions don't seem to win votes or grab headlines. These killers come from our culture and our society, isn't it just as important to look at what we're doing wrong as it is to look at other groups in the case of terrorist attacks?
On July 24 2016 06:23 Jockmcplop wrote: Maybe its because the solutions are boring and involve spending large amounts of money on stuff like good free mental health.
Study everything about it, see what can be improved and what can't be. Society does have to accept that without some advanced genetic modification and a greater understanding of the human body and mind that we probably can't solve this issue. It's a rare occurrence at the very least.
First and foremost, the blame goes squarely on the attacker. He held the gun, he pulled the trigger.
Now, beyond that the contributing factors at play:
Look at the parents, were they doing all they could? - Seeing as the parents had already cared enough to get him mental health treatment, we can possibly strike them off the list.
Look at the school, did they see something wrong but choose not to intervene? - In this event he's been bullied and we may not know to what extent or get an accurate picture. In this case, maybe we should look at the parents of the bullies who had no clue this was happening. (Tbh, it's hard for a parent to know if their kid is acting like a jackass at or outside of school if there's no evidence if they're all plucky when they get home).
Look at his life / habits etc.
In this case, he was already receiving treatment for mental health issues and depression. Now, we don't know the extent of the bullying and what went on, whether it was physical & verbal abuse etc. Considering it was prolonged over years it's clearly a contributing factor to his decision. +1 to Surth. However: it's not an excuse to murder people, and I hardly see him as a victim of German oppression. We don't know if they wounded his pride, or broke his fingers and put his head in a toilet like gangsters. Did they make fun of that sad excuse of a mustache on his face? Or did they go to greater lengths.
Your jump to free government mental health care sounds extremely expensive. We have so many social programs already that it's rather burdensome don't you think? Especially since he was already getting mental health care. Once a social program is implemented it's not likely to go away either.
Also, considering the large # of terrorist attacks that have happened, and that the media has created false narratives before it's very reasonable for people to be skeptical.
Self hating gay in Orlando - 100% wrong Workplace violence in Chattanooga - 100% wrong Three white males shooting up a place, then turned into more workplace violence in San Bernardino - 100% wrong
I agree with all of that. Free mental health care was just an example of what could be done (you're right it would be expensive but it fits with my ideology because I'm a total socialist haha). Like you say, its important to look at all of the variables and at least make an attempt to make inroads into the problem wherever its possible. I do think the education system needs to place more of an emphasis on mental health. There's so much information around today on social media, so much media saturation of traumatic and violent events, has anyone thought to teach very young pupils the importance of perspective when it comes to this stuff? Is that the parents' responsibility or should the education step in? If he was receiving mental health care for depression its important to study his case, compare it with others and look for signs which can then be used to improve early warnings of stuff like this. This might already be in place. The problem is, it rarely gets into the news because it doesn't really fit into the overarching 'us vs them' narrative that wins so many sales/ratings/clicks. Its more us vs us. I think for me its just so frustrating to see the same old left/right/muslim/white/brown debate ending in zero action or conclusions every time there's a mass murder. This kind of conversation is much more interesting.
On July 24 2016 06:51 Jockmcplop wrote: I agree with all of that. Free mental health care was just an example of what could be done (you're right it would be expensive but it fits with my ideology because I'm a total socialist haha). Like you say, its important to look at all of the variables and at least make an attempt to make inroads into the problem wherever its possible. I do think the education system needs to place more of an emphasis on mental health. There's so much information around today on social media, so much media saturation of traumatic and violent events, has anyone thought to teach very young pupils the importance of perspective when it comes to this stuff? Is that the parents' responsibility or should the education step in? If he was receiving mental health care for depression its important to study his case, compare it with others and look for signs which can then be used to improve early warnings of stuff like this. This might already be in place. The problem is, it rarely gets into the news because it doesn't really fit into the overarching 'us vs them' narrative that wins so many sales/ratings/clicks. Its more us vs us. I think for me its just so frustrating to see the same old left/right/muslim/white/brown debate ending in zero action or conclusions every time there's a mass murder. This kind of conversation is much more interesting.
Education is the basis of a healthy society, and you can't trust parents that much (too much variability between different parents). School needs to come in on these subjects, but that'd mean governments would have to redesign the education systems, which seems unlikely.
On July 24 2016 06:51 Jockmcplop wrote: I agree with all of that. Free mental health care was just an example of what could be done (you're right it would be expensive but it fits with my ideology because I'm a total socialist haha). Like you say, its important to look at all of the variables and at least make an attempt to make inroads into the problem wherever its possible. I do think the education system needs to place more of an emphasis on mental health. There's so much information around today on social media, so much media saturation of traumatic and violent events, has anyone thought to teach very young pupils the importance of perspective when it comes to this stuff? Is that the parents' responsibility or should the education step in? If he was receiving mental health care for depression its important to study his case, compare it with others and look for signs which can then be used to improve early warnings of stuff like this. This might already be in place. The problem is, it rarely gets into the news because it doesn't really fit into the overarching 'us vs them' narrative that wins so many sales/ratings/clicks. Its more us vs us. I think for me its just so frustrating to see the same old left/right/muslim/white/brown debate ending in zero action or conclusions every time there's a mass murder. This kind of conversation is much more interesting.
Education is the basis of a healthy society, and you can't trust parents that much (too much variability between different parents). School needs to come in on these subjects, but that'd mean governments would have to redesign the education systems, which seems unlikely.
Well I would suggest starting sooner than later. These events are picking up pace, probably in no small part due to 24 hour news coverage, social media coverage with violent, traumatic images etc. These solutions are very long term oriented. Governments won't want to put things in place that won't win them any votes for 10 years. Its one of the drawbacks of democracy I suppose.
On July 24 2016 06:23 Jockmcplop wrote: I find it strange how when there's an ideology driven terrorist attack everyone seems to know what to do, but when there's a mental health driven mass killing everyone just says "Oh well the guy went nuts what can you do?" There's actually answers to this stuff but people don't seem to want to engage about it. Maybe its because the solutions are boring and involve spending large amounts of money on stuff like good free mental healthcare, compulsory mental health education for very young pupils. That and the solutions don't seem to win votes or grab headlines. These killers come from our culture and our society, isn't it just as important to look at what we're doing wrong as it is to look at other groups in the case of terrorist attacks?
Quality health/mental care available for free isn't sexy. The stigma of mental health needs to change has well but that's not sexy. As long as there is a social stigma of going to therapy or mental illness of shame and disgust people will refuse to go. People that need help dealing with problems that are no fault of their own will never get that help. If you break your leg or get an ear infection and go to the doctor no one cares, there's no stigma, you're going to the doctor to fix your ailment. If you've got depression, an illness all the same, you're often looked down on. If people find out they might see or treat you different so you don't seek treatment, or you don't tell a friend who maybe has walked that same road that could help you. Maybe you don't know what you have, you can't put your finger on the problem but you're sure as fuck not going to be labeled a "crazy person" so you never go. The social stigma of mental health is an absolutely devastating problem that no one ever talks about.
The media blasting an attacker's name and image everywhere is a huge problem as well. If you're going to go out you could shoot yourself in the bedroom or you could hang yourself in the kitchen, sure. OR you could stir shit up, make a point, take a stand at your perceived problem du jour, and become renown for it. Why go out a solitary "loser" when you could be infamous? The media will help make you something in death you could never be in life! So long as we continue to give these people the attention they want these things will keep happening. It is a self fulfilling prophecy. But, again, this isn't sexy and this doesn't make media money.
You'll never stop everything unfortunately. Even if you had the absolutely best mental health care for free, if there was no social stigma, if killing a bunch of people would make the news ignore you some would still slip through the cracks. But we could be taking some steps to curb it and we don't. I hope one day it'll change but I'm not holding my breath.
On July 24 2016 06:23 Jockmcplop wrote: I find it strange how when there's an ideology driven terrorist attack everyone seems to know what to do, but when there's a mental health driven mass killing everyone just says "Oh well the guy went nuts what can you do?" There's actually answers to this stuff but people don't seem to want to engage about it. Maybe its because the solutions are boring and involve spending large amounts of money on stuff like good free mental healthcare, compulsory mental health education for very young pupils. That and the solutions don't seem to win votes or grab headlines. These killers come from our culture and our society, isn't it just as important to look at what we're doing wrong as it is to look at other groups in the case of terrorist attacks?
The media blasting an attacker's name and image everywhere is a huge problem as well. If you're going to go out you could shoot yourself in the bedroom or you could hang yourself in the kitchen, sure. OR you could stir shit up, make a point, take a stand at your perceived problem du jour, and become renown for it. Why go out a solitary "loser" when you could be infamous? The media will help make you something in death you could never be in life! So long as we continue to give these people the attention they want these things will keep happening. It is a self fulfilling prophecy. But, again, this isn't sexy and this doesn't make media money.
This is hugely important and gets ignored way too much. Look at the main headline on the Guardian's front page right now. "Munich killer was bullied teenage loner" What does that say to us? Is it responsible? More to the point what does it say to other bullied teenage loners (probably at least 10% of teenagers feel like bullied loners).
He takes an equally severe attitude to news shows. Twice, he appeared on CNN in the middle of a sensational murder case and warned the network that if it didn't tone down their coverage it would lead to further crimes. On another occasion, he told a production team from 20/20, a magazine show on ABC, that he would not participate in a programme reconstructing a workplace shooting because he feared their approach would encourage copycats. The programme went out on a Friday; by the following Tuesday there had been two fresh mass murders in other parts of the United States.
Free mental healtcare is good but you need to remember that crazy people often don't want to be helped. Sometimes it's understandable because no one wants to admit that he's crazy. Maybe some mandatory mental health examinations could help with that but I wouldn't like such solution. Proper gun control is easier and less "invasive" to personal life. Yeah I know, you can still kill multiple people without using guns but it's much harder.
I agree about gun control. The idea, though, is to attack the problem from multiple angles. Why not educate people better about mental health practices, employ fit-for-purpose gun control, ask the media to calm down their reporting all at the same time? You might find out that you are creating a better society as well as cutting down the risk of these events. The only problem is money I suppose and I am being very idealistic (you could say naive) about it. As I said before expensive long term solutions very rarely happen because of the lack of political gain for those putting them in place.
One more point on mental health. Its not about helping crazy people. that idea is part of the stigma. Mental health is like physical health, it requires maintenance, and that is something you can teach kids quite easily. Stress reducing breathing exercises permanently reduce the amount of adrenaline in your system if employed regularly (this is fairly basic biology). Spending more time in a natural environment, even if its going for a walk in the park once a day, significantly reduces the risk of mental health problems such as depression. Exposure to traumatic news events has a link with mental health problems (causality has not been proven here yet - A link has been made in studies though).
On July 24 2016 07:14 Sent. wrote: Free mental healtcare is good but you need to remember that crazy people often don't want to be helped. Sometimes it's understandable because no one wants to admit that he's crazy. Maybe some mandatory mental health examinations could help with that but I wouldn't like such solution. Proper gun control is easier and less "invasive" to personal life. Yeah I know, you can still kill multiple people without using guns but it's much harder.
The societal stigma around mental illness all but ensures that the people who need the help the most will never seek it. As long as we see people as "crazy" for having an illness we're only making this worse. A person doesn't choose to have cancer or lupus. No one holds it against someone or sees it as a character flaw. By that exact same token no one chooses to have a disease or illness of the brain but people will hold those things against someone. Make fun of them and see them as flaws. Things they'd never ever dream of doing to someone with cancer. We're only making things worse by never addressing this as a society.
On July 24 2016 07:21 Jockmcplop wrote: ask the media to calm down their reporting all at the same time?
This won't happen for a very long time until more people get angry with the media. Even that won't stop it because I've noticed more often people are actually getting more tired of all the race-baiting articles. A lot of the time they still eat it right up though. It would need direct repercussions to the people who work at the news organizations themselves. But until then, no business hurts their profits intentionally. So in the mean time we'll just have to learn why an Indian woman hates it when white women learn belly dancing like those cultural appropriating sluts that they are!
I can go onto facebook right now and just skim for 10 minutes on leftist news organizations and find 30 race baiting articles at least in that time frame. Hell, if you read black news you'll see nothing but racial articles. A lot of it is pandering and empowerment articles, empowerment is a nice idea but it's also a constant reminder of injustices that didn't even happen to some of them on a personal level. So it's always playing that over and over in peoples minds.
Media isn't going to stop the amazing business model of inciting hatred & then being the first to report it when that hatred plays out any time soon. There's still a large market for it. =]
I think a good thing to teach the next generation is, "Twitter or whatever has replaced it by then is garbage. The media is really full of shit, don't get caught up in other peoples hatred on facebook and the internet. Go outside and get some sunshine once in a while to get away from that nonsense and clear your head."
And just for fairness, yes if I go to breitbart or thedailymail I'll see, "fuckin Migrants!!!" all the time. ;p
On July 24 2016 07:21 Jockmcplop wrote: ask the media to calm down their reporting all at the same time?
This won't happen for a very long time until more people get angry with the media. Even that won't stop it because I've noticed more often people are actually getting more tired of all the race-baiting articles. A lot of the time they still eat it right up though. It would need direct repercussions to the people who work at the news organizations themselves. But until then, no business hurts their profits intentionally. So in the mean time we'll just have to learn why an Indian woman hates it when white women learn belly dancing like those cultural appropriating sluts that they are!
I can go onto facebook right now and just skim for 10 minutes on leftist news organizations and find 30 race baiting articles at least in that time frame. Hell, if you read black news you'll see nothing but racial articles. A lot of it is pandering and empowerment articles, empowerment is a nice idea but it's also a constant reminder of injustices that didn't even happen to some of them on a personal level. So it's always playing that over and over in peoples minds.
Media isn't going to stop the amazing business model of inciting hatred & then being the first to report it when that hatred plays out any time soon. There's still a large market for it. =]
I think a good thing to teach the next generation is, "Twitter or whatever has replaced it by then is garbage. The media is really full of shit, don't get caught up in other peoples hatred on facebook and the internet. Go outside and get some sunshine once in a while to get away from that nonsense and clear your head."
And just for fairness, yes if I go to breitbart or thedailymail I'll see, "fuckin Migrants!!!" all the time. ;p
the problem is that it's really a lose-lose situation. You either keep it low-profile and get yelled at for being media who's being PC, trying to keep something under the rug when really you think the populace needs to be made fully aware of the horrors these incidents bring. They need to see those gruesome images is something you argued just (around) last week.
If you DO report on it in all detail you get yelled at for basicly shouting out to everyone "you too can become famous if you pick up a gun and shoot up lots of people!".
This wasn't some terrorist attack or an attack fueled by hate against a particular group of people if what the police said is correct and he was just "fascinated" by Breivik etc. And really, if you want to argue that it was it's probably not something you'll like because the only thing you could potentially speculate about so far is that he might have been influenced by the growing anti-immigrant sentiment with the immigrant slurs etc.
I at least don't think there was anything done horribly wrong by mainstream media in this case aside from publishing photos/videos they should not have published
I at least don't think there was anything done horribly wrong by mainstream media in this case aside from publishing photos/videos they should not have published
I disagree with this. Its not only the way it is reported. "Munich killer was a bullied loner" is not helpful - it encourages lonely bullied teenagers to identify with the killer. It is also the sheer volume (this is the biggest problem) and the length of time that the news runs for on this kind of thing. It is also the contagion effect. This is a recognized effect where killings go on to inspire other killings. I would wager that this played some part in the cause of this particular event. Saturated 24 hour news and social coverage of traumatic mass murders has been going on now for weeks. Its not an easy problem to solve, as you say its a lose-lose for the media, but there are some methods they could employ to at least make the slightest effort not to encourage further crimes. There has been intense study of this subject and the results are all too often the same. Media-hyped mass murders are always followed very closely by more mass murders. They tend to happen in 'patches' due to the sheer level of hype. Here's a study into the contagion effect: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0117259
Several past studies have found that media reports of suicides and homicides appear to subsequently increase the incidence of similar events in the community, apparently due to the coverage planting the seeds of ideation in at-risk individuals to commit similar acts.
Methods
Here we explore whether or not contagion is evident in more high-profile incidents, such as school shootings and mass killings (incidents with four or more people killed). We fit a contagion model to recent data sets related to such incidents in the US, with terms that take into account the fact that a school shooting or mass murder may temporarily increase the probability of a similar event in the immediate future, by assuming an exponential decay in contagiousness after an event.
Conclusions
We find significant evidence that mass killings involving firearms are incented by similar events in the immediate past. On average, this temporary increase in probability lasts 13 days, and each incident incites at least 0.30 new incidents (p = 0.0015). We also find significant evidence of contagion in school shootings, for which an incident is contagious for an average of 13 days, and incites an average of at least 0.22 new incidents (p = 0.0001). All p-values are assessed based on a likelihood ratio test comparing the likelihood of a contagion model to that of a null model with no contagion. On average, mass killings involving firearms occur approximately every two weeks in the US, while school shootings occur on average monthly. We find that state prevalence of firearm ownership is significantly associated with the state incidence of mass killings with firearms, school shootings, and mass shootings.
Earlier on I posted an article about the work of a forensic scientist who constantly finds himself going live on CNN and such news channels asking them to tone down their coverage or to expect more mass killings.
Its not just a case of blaming the media. These studies have to be publicised, people have to educated about the effect constant exposure to traumatic news has on them, kids need to be told to get off social media etc. The effect is there, though, and it is proven.
Not sure if it was posted, the angry balcony guy was interviewed.
Keyfacts: he's an excavator operator (i'm not sure if non-germans grasp how funny it is, considering that there's a stereotype for these), 57 years old, was just having his good evening beer after work on the balcony when he saw that "Vollpfosten" (dumbass, but funnier). "I even threw my beerbottle at him, but it fell short - there, you can see the shards still.".
I mean.. It takes balls to throw your beer at someone with a gun, while furiously insulting him. And, as a german, that he's a Baggerfahrer (excavatordriver), makes it even funnier.
On July 24 2016 08:58 Toadesstern wrote: They need to see those gruesome images is something you argued just (around) last week.
Which is why I said race baiting articles that incite hatred that come from mostly leftist news organizations that pretend to care about peoples issues. I can find a literal shit tonne of these in a very short amount of time. This one's rather tepid even though it's blatant racism from the writer.
On July 24 2016 08:58 Toadesstern wrote: They need to see those gruesome images is something you argued just (around) last week.
Which is why I said race baiting articles that incite hatred that come from mostly leftist news organizations that pretend to care about peoples issues. I can find a literal shit tonne of these in a very short amount of time. This one's rather tepid even though it's blatant racism from the writer.
It was a commentary on him asking for the media to calm down. It was to emphasize the point that they don't care when shit goes south. They really, really don't.
On July 24 2016 08:58 Toadesstern wrote: They need to see those gruesome images is something you argued just (around) last week.
Which is why I said race baiting articles that incite hatred that come from mostly leftist news organizations that pretend to care about peoples issues. I can find a literal shit tonne of these in a very short amount of time. This one's rather tepid even though it's blatant racism from the writer.
I don't think showing the graphic nature of wars or violence is a deterrent and it's something people should be able to see if they so choose.
how are race baiting articles relevant to this incident here though?
They aren't. Testie just lives to race bait. He only really posts here when there is a terrorist attack that might have been committed by a Muslim. He never missed a chance to stoke the culture war.
Its both sides though, just making that post Plansix is taking the bait. Everyone focuses on the stuff we disagree about right wing vs left wing everywhere on every political thread and in political institutions, public debate etc. and everyone seems to forget to actually DO the stuff that we all agree would work or help.
On July 24 2016 09:15 m4ini wrote: Not sure if it was posted, the angry balcony guy was interviewed.
Keyfacts: he's an excavator operator (i'm not sure if non-germans grasp how funny it is, considering that there's a stereotype for these), 57 years old, was just having his good evening beer after work on the balcony when he saw that "Vollpfosten" (dumbass, but funnier). "I even threw my beerbottle at him, but it fell short - there, you can see the shards still.".
I mean.. It takes balls to throw your beer at someone with a gun, while furiously insulting him. And, as a german, that he's a Baggerfahrer (excavatordriver), makes it even funnier.
You can't make that stuff up.
I mean the whole event is tragic of course but you just can't deny the comedy of that one encounter.
Sidenote, it seems like he deliberately went after people with immigration backgrounds. For example, the rooftop encounter: he actually (at least that's what it seems like) didn't shoot at the Baggerfahrer, but at the guy who was filming. And that guy was a Muslim. The impacts were at his balcony (one story lower and two apartments apart), and his father was actually injured by shrapnel.
So, in a sense, multiculturalism and integration seems to actually have worked, he was pretty much as german as it gets. Kinda ironic.
He also visited and took pictures in Winneden, which is where iirc the biggest school massacre in germanies history went down - and he had Breiviks Manifesto on his PC.
The gun seems to be a weapon that was used in theatres, basically a disabled weapon that was re-enabled, and had the serial number filed out. It seems to be of slovakian origin, according to police, considering there's a slovakian "seal of approval" on it. He ordered it in the Darknet.
Three people still in critical, life threatening condition.
I live in Munich city center - the amount of panic and misinformation was insane. Respect to the authorities for contaminating the shooting site and dealing with all the panic - they probably had to triple their efforts cause of all paranoid people on the streets.
On July 24 2016 09:15 m4ini wrote: Not sure if it was posted, the angry balcony guy was interviewed.
Keyfacts: he's an excavator operator (i'm not sure if non-germans grasp how funny it is, considering that there's a stereotype for these), 57 years old, was just having his good evening beer after work on the balcony when he saw that "Vollpfosten" (dumbass, but funnier). "I even threw my beerbottle at him, but it fell short - there, you can see the shards still.".
I mean.. It takes balls to throw your beer at someone with a gun, while furiously insulting him. And, as a german, that he's a Baggerfahrer (excavatordriver), makes it even funnier.
Just curious as a non-german, could you tell me why it is funny that the balcony guy is a Baggerfahrer (excavatordriver)? I tried googling it and could find nothing. If it is inappropriate, you can PM me instead. Thanks.
On July 24 2016 09:15 m4ini wrote: Not sure if it was posted, the angry balcony guy was interviewed.
Keyfacts: he's an excavator operator (i'm not sure if non-germans grasp how funny it is, considering that there's a stereotype for these), 57 years old, was just having his good evening beer after work on the balcony when he saw that "Vollpfosten" (dumbass, but funnier). "I even threw my beerbottle at him, but it fell short - there, you can see the shards still.".
I mean.. It takes balls to throw your beer at someone with a gun, while furiously insulting him. And, as a german, that he's a Baggerfahrer (excavatordriver), makes it even funnier.
Just curious as a non-german, could you tell me why it is funny that the balcony guy is a Baggerfahrer (excavatordriver)? I tried googling it and could find nothing. If it is inappropriate, you can PM me instead. Thanks.
I guess the best way to explain it is that it's like a 40 year old meme/stereotype. He's made it up one or two steps from manual laborer on a construction site and he's had plenty of time sitting in his 'bagger' to contemplate life.
man I thought we were past that killergames discussion...
CNN are also pushing this angle, real silly stuff.
Given that nobody can blame it on religion this time people are again on the hunt to figure out the next group to blame and it apparently is games again. Seems to be a reoccurring theme that nobody apparently can't rest before we've found and named some guilty party.
Especially digging up the guy's private life like this is awful because in the past it has tended to spawn copycat killers.
It's just more public attacks than Germany is used to recently I'd imagine, so of course they're going to be angry and looking for something. Video games is definitely the silliest reason. If anything, I'd imagine they curb male violence by giving them something to waste time on and not think about too much in life. Something to enjoy and pour their energy into.
You have the Afghani asylum axe attacker 6 or so days ago on the train wounding 20 people with images of blood all over the passenger car. You have the angry bullied shooter. And today you have the this hacky mchackerson with a machete or some sharp object at least outside of a kebab shop. He's already caught - 1 dead 2 wounded + Show Spoiler +
On July 25 2016 01:23 SK.Testie wrote: It's just more public attacks than Germany is used to recently I'd imagine, so of course they're going to be angry and looking for something. Video games is definitely the silliest reason. If anything, I'd imagine they curb male violence by giving them something to waste time on and not think about too much in life. Something to enjoy and pour their energy into.
You have the Afghani asylum axe attacker 6 or so days ago on the train wounding 20 people with images of blood all over the passenger car. You have the angry bullied shooter. And today you have the this hacky mchackerson with a machete or some sharp object at least outside of a kebab shop. He's already caught - 1 dead 2 wounded + Show Spoiler +
According to reports, this guy was known to police already, and is a Syrian refugee.
That's the result of Merkel's refugee policy. "People are escaping from war" is a silly argument when you don't do any background check on refugees. What if terrorists pretend to be refugees? Have you ever heard of trojan horse? Left-wing believers should explain that to victims if they keep supporting refugees.
On July 24 2016 09:15 m4ini wrote: Not sure if it was posted, the angry balcony guy was interviewed.
Keyfacts: he's an excavator operator (i'm not sure if non-germans grasp how funny it is, considering that there's a stereotype for these), 57 years old, was just having his good evening beer after work on the balcony when he saw that "Vollpfosten" (dumbass, but funnier). "I even threw my beerbottle at him, but it fell short - there, you can see the shards still.".
I mean.. It takes balls to throw your beer at someone with a gun, while furiously insulting him. And, as a german, that he's a Baggerfahrer (excavatordriver), makes it even funnier.
Just curious as a non-german, could you tell me why it is funny that the balcony guy is a Baggerfahrer (excavatordriver)? I tried googling it and could find nothing. If it is inappropriate, you can PM me instead. Thanks.
I guess the best way to explain it is that it's like a 40 year old meme/stereotype. He's made it up one or two steps from manual laborer on a construction site and he's had plenty of time sitting in his 'bagger' to contemplate life.
He was sitting on his balcony (which has a green 'lawn' carpet, and a plastic crow), in a singlet, and has a beer belly and tattoos.
Basically the local variant of a old redneck got into a shouting match with the shooter and was hurling insults.
Pretty much this. Not to mention the song "Bodo mit dem Bagger" (Bodo with the Excavator), from thousands of years back.
It's.. A bit like the german stereotype of "Mantafahrer" (Manta driver, or Vauxhall Cavalier Mk1 in the UK). Google "Mantafahrer", you'll see what i mean @Dangercatmousedog (or similar).
edit:
Only just now heard of the recent attack in Reutlingen.. I wonder at what point we realize that it's ridiculous that you have a syrian refugee who's already known to police and still is allowed to roam free and stay in germany. If you can't even get by for a year or so without getting into trouble with the police, get the fuck out. No "ah, he's new here, things are different, he will learn in time".
Merkels little cardhouse won't last long at the speed things are unfolding now, with two attacks by refugees in a single week. Especially considering that one of them blatantly wasn't what he said he was, and nobody gave a shit.
You have the Afghani asylum axe attacker 6 or so days ago on the train wounding 20 people with images of blood all over the passenger car.
Fun fact, he was most likely not Afghani. He did what i was critizising right from the beginning when the crisis started (-> european politics thread): false identity. He's most likely Pakistani: he just said that he's afghan to increase chances of asylum, since Pakistanis are unlikely to get it.
edit2: the Reutlingen attack was stopped by a "bystander", who hit him with his car on purpose, police confirmed.
Makes you wonder how it would've looked otherwise.
man I thought we were past that killergames discussion...
CNN are also pushing this angle, real silly stuff.
Given that nobody can blame it on religion this time people are again on the hunt to figure out the next group to blame and it apparently is games again. Seems to be a reoccurring theme that nobody apparently can't rest before we've found and named some guilty party.
Especially digging up the guy's private life like this is awful because in the past it has tended to spawn copycat killers.
Well, even before religion they usually try to blame the gun itself. Perhaps that this gun does not look scary has muted this narrative.
man I thought we were past that killergames discussion...
CNN are also pushing this angle, real silly stuff.
Given that nobody can blame it on religion this time people are again on the hunt to figure out the next group to blame and it apparently is games again. Seems to be a reoccurring theme that nobody apparently can't rest before we've found and named some guilty party.
Especially digging up the guy's private life like this is awful because in the past it has tended to spawn copycat killers.
Well, even before religion they usually try to blame the gun itself. Perhaps that this gun does not look scary has muted this narrative.
You have political careers built on telling people that they should be safer than they are now, which is basically a superstition. If your answer is shit happens, you can't use that. If your answer is things have to change, you can. It's a well that won't dry, cause every time someone dies you can demonstrate that safety hasn't been reached and you're still needed; and it's pretty hard to run out stuff you can change.
man I thought we were past that killergames discussion...
CNN are also pushing this angle, real silly stuff.
Given that nobody can blame it on religion this time people are again on the hunt to figure out the next group to blame and it apparently is games again. Seems to be a reoccurring theme that nobody apparently can't rest before we've found and named some guilty party.
Especially digging up the guy's private life like this is awful because in the past it has tended to spawn copycat killers.
Well, even before religion they usually try to blame the gun itself. Perhaps that this gun does not look scary has muted this narrative.
You have political careers built on telling people that they should be safer than they are now, which is basically a superstition. If your answer is shit happens, you can't use that. If your answer is things have to change, you can. It's a well that won't dry, cause every time someone dies you can demonstrate that safety hasn't been reached and you're still needed; and it's pretty hard to run out stuff you can change.
Its worse than this. The careers are built on giving us the answer to the problem - but the solution doesn't exist. When the only answer is blaming a bunch of people, or a video game, there is no solution to that. Convenient, because the politicians don't actually have to do anything. If you start asking pesky questions like "What do we actually do about this - can we improve our society to the point where the risk of this is acknowledged and minimized?" You then get no answers because that kind of thing is expensive and takes a long time ie there is a net loss in political capital for those responsible.
man I thought we were past that killergames discussion...
CNN are also pushing this angle, real silly stuff.
Given that nobody can blame it on religion this time people are again on the hunt to figure out the next group to blame and it apparently is games again. Seems to be a reoccurring theme that nobody apparently can't rest before we've found and named some guilty party.
Especially digging up the guy's private life like this is awful because in the past it has tended to spawn copycat killers.
Well, even before religion they usually try to blame the gun itself. Perhaps that this gun does not look scary has muted this narrative.
You have political careers built on telling people that they should be safer than they are now, which is basically a superstition. If your answer is shit happens, you can't use that. If your answer is things have to change, you can. It's a well that won't dry, cause every time someone dies you can demonstrate that safety hasn't been reached and you're still needed; and it's pretty hard to run out stuff you can change.
Its worse than this. The careers are built on giving us the answer to the problem - but the solution doesn't exist. When the only answer is blaming a bunch of people, or a video game, there is no solution to that. Convenient, because the politicians don't actually have to do anything. If you start asking pesky questions like "What do we actually do about this - can we improve our society to the point where the risk of this is acknowledged and minimized?" You then get no answers because that kind of thing is expensive and takes a long time ie there is a net loss in political capital for those responsible.
So what's the solution? You're not responsible politically I guess.
man I thought we were past that killergames discussion...
CNN are also pushing this angle, real silly stuff.
Given that nobody can blame it on religion this time people are again on the hunt to figure out the next group to blame and it apparently is games again. Seems to be a reoccurring theme that nobody apparently can't rest before we've found and named some guilty party.
Especially digging up the guy's private life like this is awful because in the past it has tended to spawn copycat killers.
Well, even before religion they usually try to blame the gun itself. Perhaps that this gun does not look scary has muted this narrative.
You have political careers built on telling people that they should be safer than they are now, which is basically a superstition. If your answer is shit happens, you can't use that. If your answer is things have to change, you can. It's a well that won't dry, cause every time someone dies you can demonstrate that safety hasn't been reached and you're still needed; and it's pretty hard to run out stuff you can change.
Its worse than this. The careers are built on giving us the answer to the problem - but the solution doesn't exist. When the only answer is blaming a bunch of people, or a video game, there is no solution to that. Convenient, because the politicians don't actually have to do anything. If you start asking pesky questions like "What do we actually do about this - can we improve our society to the point where the risk of this is acknowledged and minimized?" You then get no answers because that kind of thing is expensive and takes a long time ie there is a net loss in political capital for those responsible.
So what's the solution? You're not responsible politically I guess.
I don't claim to have all the answers, I just think a conversation should be taking place that doesn't simply involve lumping all the blame on immigrants/video games etc. If this was a mental health problem the situation could be helped by better education and mental health awareness/systems as discussed on the last few pages. Obviously this isn't a solution because there is no single solution. The point i'm making is that we very rarely hear that we all bear at least a portion of responsibility for making a society where the risk of this kind of thing is minimized. You can't stop people suddenly losing it but there's almost certainly measures you can take to make it less likely/frequent. Better gun control is another idea but its quite ideological in some countries so I guess that varies from place to place in its feasibility. Taking lots of small steps to improve things long term would be the best way IMO, but you never hear that conversation, or if you do its drowned out by the constant banging of heads on the wall of immigration/extreme right/left wing dogma.
Put it this way: A jihadist blows up a building full of people. What happens? Everyone demands that their government sort out the terrorist problem immediately. A kid with mental health problems shoots all of his friends. Do you ever see the instant reaction that we need to sort out the current mental health crisis that is occurring throughout the Western world? No. People usually just twist it into another way of demanding that a government punishes this group or that group.
The answer is, basically, prosperity + social cohesion, and most government actions can only have negative influences on both. Sure you can tinker at the edges with things like policing, but mostly safety boils down to having a bunch of relatively well off people in an area who all basically agree on all the major questions of society.
Seems to be an explosion in Germany now "The explosion in downtown Ansbach was not a gas explosion, but was caused by an explosive device”, Ansbach Mayor Carda Seidel said at a press conference. Apparently, the explosion was detonated in or in front of “Eugene’s Weinstube”
At least one killed - 9-13 injured.
Conflicting reports atm. Was said to be a gas explosion initially but reports from the mayor are saying it was a device.
With all the attacks these days might as well just start a big terrorism thread. "If you're seeing this thread another attack has gone off on European soil and people disagree on what to do."
Seems to be an explosion in Germany now "The explosion in downtown Ansbach was not a gas explosion, but was caused by an explosive device”, Ansbach Mayor Carda Seidel said at a press conference. Apparently, the explosion was detonated in or in front of “Eugene’s Weinstube”
At least one killed - 9-13 injured.
Conflicting reports atm. Was said to be a gas explosion initially but reports from the mayor are saying it was a device.
With all the attacks these days might as well just start a big terrorism thread. "If you're seeing this thread another attack has gone off on European soil and people disagree on what to do."
As others said in the past, people will just be numbers and there will be little discussion. I think it's important to discuss problems with terrorism.
I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
The only dead idiot. Other victims only light injured.
Lets keep hoping the terrorists in Germany keep being uterly retarded and bad in the things they do and we dont get our own Orlando, Nizza or Bataclan.
On July 25 2016 09:00 Clonester wrote: Suicide Bomber confirmed.
The only dead victim.
Lets keep hoping the terrorists in Germany keep being uterly retarded and bad in the things they do and we dont get our own Orlando, Nizza or Bataclan.
On July 25 2016 09:00 Clonester wrote: Suicide Bomber confirmed.
The only dead victim.
Lets keep hoping the terrorists in Germany keep being uterly retarded and bad in the things they do and we dont get our own Orlando, Nizza or Bataclan.
On July 25 2016 09:00 Clonester wrote: Suicide Bomber confirmed.
The only dead victim.
Lets keep hoping the terrorists in Germany keep being uterly retarded and bad in the things they do and we dont get our own Orlando, Nizza or Bataclan.
On July 25 2016 09:00 Clonester wrote: Suicide Bomber confirmed.
The only dead victim.
Lets keep hoping the terrorists in Germany keep being uterly retarded and bad in the things they do and we dont get our own Orlando, Nizza or Bataclan.
On July 25 2016 09:00 Clonester wrote: Suicide Bomber confirmed.
The only dead victim.
Lets keep hoping the terrorists in Germany keep being uterly retarded and bad in the things they do and we dont get our own Orlando, Nizza or Bataclan.
There is alot more in local or semi local german news sites, but the police confirmed it.
You are right, i correct it.
Yeah, was following on focus etc - they're just stating that "most likely" it was the bomber.
I'm going out on a limb and call religious background for it. If that was a refugee too, AfD will have a field day with this.
Fun times to live in here.
Man I feel bad for the chinese girl I study with. She just came here this year to make her master and is scared to death by all these news.
That's not just exchange students. I think that goes for many people in germany, considering that we're not really used to that. But possibly should get used to it, maybe it's the "heat of the moment", but in general i don't feel like this "wave" is over yet.
Even worse that a chinese couple was hurt by the axe refugee, and another chinese couple just disappeared into thin air at Neuschwanstein. I'd be scared too i bet.
On July 25 2016 09:19 SK.Testie wrote: Related: If it was only the bomber who got killed that would be pretty glorious.
Unrelated: AfD says some silly things but they've certainly got a sense of humour + Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAHvLAJ-5aQ
Okay, i really am not a fan of the AfD, and i think it'd be catastrophic if they'd get any kind of power in the german government (although, that'd be to blame on Mutti Merkel and her retarded Lala Land politics) - but that: "sorry, could i briefly ask you a question" - "no, i didn't even finish my greeting yet" made me chuckle.
In Ansbach!? What's next, suicide bomber in a cabin in the woods?
Open air concert with 2500 people isn't big enough? oO
On July 25 2016 09:19 SK.Testie wrote: Related: If it was only the bomber who got killed that would be pretty glorious.
Unrelated: AfD says some silly things but they've certainly got a sense of humour + Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAHvLAJ-5aQ
Yeah, if you mistake "being an annoying twat" for "having a sense of humour".
Last time i checked, humour is subjective and you certainly not the judge of it.
Yeah, i guess you are correct. Neither is Testie, though.
I am generally of the opinion that being a dick for no reason is not funny, but i guess people are free to disagree on that. The world would be a better place if everyone just tried to be nice to each other instead of trying to look for any possibility to be an asshole to others just to make yourself feel better.
But it is correct that i can't objectively judge that to be not funny, i can only state that i don't think it is funny, and that i don't really have a lot of respect of people who do find that behaviour funny.
On July 25 2016 09:19 SK.Testie wrote: Related: If it was only the bomber who got killed that would be pretty glorious.
Unrelated: AfD says some silly things but they've certainly got a sense of humour + Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAHvLAJ-5aQ
Yeah, if you mistake "being an annoying twat" for "having a sense of humour".
Last time i checked, humour is subjective and you certainly not the judge of it.
Yeah, i guess you are correct. Neither is Testie, though.
I am generally of the opinion that being a dick for no reason is not funny, but i guess people are free to disagree on that. The world would be a better place if everyone just tried to be nice to each other instead of trying to look for any possibility to be an asshole to others just to make yourself feel better.
But it is correct that i can't objectively judge that to be not funny, i can only state that i don't think it is funny, and that i don't really have a lot of respect of people who do find that behaviour funny.
From his perspective, he might very well be. The same way you state that you don't think it's funny. I find it funny, not because of the topic he politizised but the interruption that he washed away with the dry comment that he didn't finish yet.
The world would be a better place if mankind would go extinct tomorrow, that's my opinion. And btw, since you brought it up: a world where everyone is nice to each other, is a world without (not less or different, but zero) humour. I don't know how much fun that'd be. Humour always has a victim.
That being said, it's not really the topic at hand.
On July 25 2016 09:19 SK.Testie wrote: Related: If it was only the bomber who got killed that would be pretty glorious.
Unrelated: AfD says some silly things but they've certainly got a sense of humour + Show Spoiler +
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAHvLAJ-5aQ
Yeah, if you mistake "being an annoying twat" for "having a sense of humour".
Last time i checked, humour is subjective and you certainly not the judge of it.
Yeah, i guess you are correct. Neither is Testie, though.
I am generally of the opinion that being a dick for no reason is not funny, but i guess people are free to disagree on that. The world would be a better place if everyone just tried to be nice to each other instead of trying to look for any possibility to be an asshole to others just to make yourself feel better.
But it is correct that i can't objectively judge that to be not funny, i can only state that i don't think it is funny, and that i don't really have a lot of respect of people who do find that behaviour funny.
Unrelated: Are... are you against rape jokes and offensive jokes perhaps? Do you enjoy South Park or American Dad? Or was this one instance not particularly funny? Humour and tragedy have a very strong link and comedy has always pushed boundaries. This wasn't tragic or pushing boundaries. What the man did was a pretty clean skewering of identity politics & pandering in a very light non-offensive way. It was just a greeting, after all.
Related: Well, barring any other reports it seems it's confirmed that the suicide attacker killed himself and no one else. This went a lot better than expected. Normally after the initial reports the death toll steadily rises. Crack open the champagne tonight. A failed suicide bombing is as good a reason to celebrate as any. Just hope the reports of the injuries being light is true.
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
Here are my problems with your post:
1. No, people disagreeing with you politically about what to do with terrorism is not a bigger problem than terrorism. 2. Saying "we don't want muslims in Europe" is by definition "islamophobic". This isn't political correctness, this is just basic reading comprehension. 3. What you're trying to say is "islamophobia is justified", but you don't want to say it directly, so you're going on about "political correctness". Political correctness has never been a problem ever. The problem is being logically wrong while politically correct. 4. If at some point we establish that the problem is indeed being logically wrong rather than being politically correct, are you okay with taking a ride with me at that point and seeing which one of us is logically right?
On July 25 2016 11:06 Nebuchad wrote: Political correctness has never been a problem ever.
Don't make me do this to you. I'm just an autistic gamer with a looooooooooot of content.
"Racism is bad" is a politically correct sentence. It's also morally correct, logically correct, it's all of the corrects that you want. "Racism is bad, so we won't investigate crimes by non-white people" is a politically correct sentence. It isn't, however, logically correct, because there's no connexion between being racist and investigating a crime committed by a non-white person.
Your problem is with being logically incorrect, not with being politically correct.
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
The funny thing I know is that if any white person would treat women they way Islam does they'd get total shit of leftists.
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
The funny thing I know is that if any white person would treat women they way Islam does they'd get total shit of leftists.
Not really. There are thousands of rich, white dudes out there that treat women like garbage and get away with it.
Since nobody is addressing the elephant in the room: the suicide bomber was in fact a syrian refugee, who came to germany two years ago, and his asylum request was denied one year ago. He actually tried to simply stop the festival for whatever reason, but they didn't let him (obviously) do that. So he decided to bomb it.
Fun fact, the german news outlet N24 actually writes:
"Unklar ist laut Herrmann, ob der Mann in suizidaler Absicht handelte oder andere Menschen mit in den Tod reißen wollte."
"Unclear is according to Herrmann (minister), if the dude acted suicidal or wanted to take other people with him."
Like.. What? He bombed himself amidst civilians, pure luck and gods thumb prevented more deaths. How can newspapers and ministers spout something so inherently retarded? How's that even a question?
And the worst part: the AfD will call them out on that. And i can't even blame them, if politicians immediately after an attack already start downplaying shit (like, of course he didn't want to take other people with him, that's why he bombed himself next to a big group of partying people)?
So far: refugee who lied about his origin went on rampage with an axe, another refugee went on rampage with a machete who got stopped by civilian who prevented worse, and now a third one who was rejected 12 months ago, ie shouldn't even be in germany, blowing himself up.
Come on.
edit: opposite to what was said before by the police, there are critically injured.
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
The funny thing I know is that if any white person would treat women they way Islam does they'd get total shit of leftists.
Not really. There are thousands of rich, white dudes out there that treat women like garbage and get away with it.
That's a really stupid thing to say in response and literally has no value.
On July 25 2016 12:11 m4ini wrote: Since nobody is addressing the elephant in the room: the suicide bomber was in fact a syrian refugee, who came to germany two years ago, and his asylum request was denied one year ago. He actually tried to simply stop the festival for whatever reason, but they didn't let him (obviously) do that. So he decided to bomb it.
Fun fact, the german news outlet N24 actually writes:
"Unklar ist laut Herrmann, ob der Mann in suizidaler Absicht handelte oder andere Menschen mit in den Tod reißen wollte."
"Unclear is according to Herrmann (minister), if the dude acted suicidal or wanted to take other people with him."
Like.. What? He bombed himself amidst civilians, pure luck and gods thumb prevented more deaths. How can newspapers and ministers spout something so inherently retarded? How's that even a question?
And the worst part: the AfD will call them out on that. And i can't even blame them, if politicians immediately after an attack already start downplaying shit (like, of course he didn't want to take other people with him, that's why he bombed himself next to big group of partying people)?
So far: refugee who lied about his origin went on rampage with an axe, another refugee went on rampage with a machete who got stopped by civilian who prevented worse, and now a third one who was rejected 12 months ago, ie shouldn't even be in germany, blowing himself up.
Come on.
edit: opposite to what was said before by the police, there are critically injured.
T... the suicide bomber didn't want to hurt anyone guys! I.. I swear! God, what a bunch of morons.
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
The funny thing I know is that if any white person would treat women they way Islam does they'd get total shit of leftists.
Not really. There are thousands of rich, white dudes out there that treat women like garbage and get away with it.
That's a really stupid thing to say in response and literally has no value.
You do dislike facts. Did you know that rich white dudes have been sexually harassing women forever? Sometime they are just their bosses and not even rich. Then when the women accuse them of sexual harassment, no one believes them. Sometimes legit date rape victims come forward in the US and everyone claims they made it up? Or tell them it happened because their cloths were to sexy?
Plenty of white dudes treat women terribly and don't get blamed at all. Some of them get praised. Some of them are the head of major "news" networks.
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
The funny thing I know is that if any white person would treat women they way Islam does they'd get total shit of leftists.
Not really. There are thousands of rich, white dudes out there that treat women like garbage and get away with it.
That's a really stupid thing to say in response and literally has no value.
You do dislike facts. Did you know that rich white dudes have been sexually harassing women forever? Sometime they are just their bosses and not even rich. Then when the women accuse them of sexual harassment, no one believes them. Sometimes legit date rape victims come forward in the US and everyone claims they made it up? Or tell them it happened because their cloths were to sexy?
Plenty of white dudes treat women terribly and don't get blamed at all. Some of them get praised. Some of them are the head of major "news" networks.
Man, i'm sorry, but you missed the point by miles here.
Nobody is saying white douchebags don't treat women badly. They're douchebags after all. The main point that someone made was "is islam as it is practiced in the regions that we see moving to europe compatible to democracy and our values".
There's zero connection to white guys being dicks. And lets be clear here: a while back i posted statistics about what kind of people arrive in germany (i assume it's equal for the other countries in europe). Two thirds illiterate, uneducated. Rural people. The people where women don't even think they get mistreated, because "that's how it should be". Or the people where the brother kills his sister because she's too "obscene". Which happened in germany as well, multiple times, called "Ehrenmorde/honorkills".
After cologne it should be blatantly clear that we're talking a major problem here.
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
The funny thing I know is that if any white person would treat women they way Islam does they'd get total shit of leftists.
Not really. There are thousands of rich, white dudes out there that treat women like garbage and get away with it.
That's a really stupid thing to say in response and literally has no value.
You do dislike facts. Did you know that rich white dudes have been sexually harassing women forever? Sometime they are just their bosses and not even rich. Then when the women accuse them of sexual harassment, no one believes them. Sometimes legit date rape victims come forward in the US and everyone claims they made it up? Or tell them it happened because their cloths were to sexy?
Plenty of white dudes treat women terribly and don't get blamed at all. Some of them get praised. Some of them are the head of major "news" networks.
First off, I don't excuse rich cunts of any colour treating people like shit. I don't excuse poor cunts of any colour treating people like shit. But if we look at the countries in general, we'll see a little difference in values. Last I checked a womans voice was worth just as much as a mans in court. In fact, in divorce cases I'm pretty sure it's probably worth more. So let's not start off thinking the two cultures are remotely the same, ok? We're trying to be honest and not a leftist hug box of bullshit.
Lose a divorce case to a woman here? Half your shit and alimony. Was she the breadwinner? Who cares fuck you, you're a man. Want to use tinder for free food? LOL. np.
No, they get accused and it is up to the accusers to bring proof. It's that simple. The women get plenty of support and benefit of the doubt, however, they get some skepticism and rightly so. We've seen plenty of scorned women try to take rape all the way to court and even lie about it for revenge and have been completely and utterly laughed out of court by the justice system.
If women want to talk seriously about things, they have to leave 'safe spaces' like Jezebel and TwoxChromosome on reddit and enter a nice free speech zone with no moderation. But.. they don't fucking do that, now do they? Because when free speech is involved, they don't get shouted down they simply hate the evidence that's presented to them because it smashes their worldview into pieces and cognitive dissonance shakes them to their core.
I'll defend women when they're in the right gladly. But I'll not excuse the wrong. Is Bill Clinton a rapist? I don't know. He was a powerful and charismatic man, I don't know if he's a rapist. Is Bill Cosby? No clue, in his case a little more likely not because he's black but because of the stories and the use of pills in womens drinks. Was Jian Ghomeshi a rapist? No, literally a dude into S&M and was kinky as fuck but the women LOVED it at the time. They were scorned so they plotted revenge. How about Mattress Girl? A complete fraud. There's so many fraudulent claims especially on rich and powerful men that it's ridiculous. Are some real? Of course. But we need evidence. A woman's word is not enough. If a woman cries, "why won't you believe he raped me?!!" you get stories like this: Some women are stupid Plansix. In this particular case, every single woman who testified and brought false charges against Ghomeshi
Now, even despite this I believe that most rape claims are true. I have an inherit bias towards believing the woman, however I also have a strong belief that you must be able to prove it in a court of law. You cannot simply win on word alone, that's wrong. That's terrible and a complete joke on our justice system. If you've been raped, be responsible. Report it immediately, and go to a hospital. Get as much proof as you can. Don't feel guilty, realize that you didn't want it and be an adult.
Honest question: what forum right now has complete free speech and is mostly fielded by women? Because I don't really find any. But if you go to womens pages you'll see safe spaces galore and moderated content. Maybe I just haven't looked hard enough.
I find people who complain about safe spaces are most mad because they found out they were not welcome on every part of the Internet. Moderated discussion is the cornerstone of academia, but requires people to do the required reading. People get so man when even a fraction of those requirements are applied to the Internet.
Edit: oh no a false claim of rape. That totally cancels out all the real rapes people just ignored or didn't believe.
Most people give the benefit of the doubt to the rape accusers, that's why they get off with 0 punishment often times despite bringing false claims Plansix.
It doesn't stop it from being needed to be proven in a court of law. And yes, some people will be skeptics. Do you think rape victims should have 100% public support every single time they call rape? Wouldn't that be fucked up and just destroy our justice system if outside of every rape trial the angry mob demanded justice?
People who claim they got mugged get the benifit of the doubt. Someone gets beat up, we assume they are not lying. But women and rape are special, apparently.
On July 25 2016 12:48 Plansix wrote: People who claim they got mugged get the benifit of the doubt. Someone gets beat up, we assume they are not lying. But womens and rape are special, apparently.
I quite literally said that they do get the majority of the benefit of the doubt. And I'm quite positive that they do. There's always a massive support wave of normal people, there's people holding on and saying.. 'waiiiiiit a second'. And there's people on both sides attacking people just for the sake of it when people should simply wait and see what's proven in a court of law. That's all that matters. Can you win in a court of law. Whether it happened or not that's the most important part.
If women are to be believed Plansix, then Bill Clinton must be a rapist. Well, is he a rapist? Multiple accusations you know. Do you believe he raped women in his spare time?
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
The funny thing I know is that if any white person would treat women they way Islam does they'd get total shit of leftists.
Not really. There are thousands of rich, white dudes out there that treat women like garbage and get away with it.
Yeah.Fuck all those rich white guys making sure their daughters get FGM.
Banned 4 times at least on 3 different accounts in counter strike. Probably aim botting or wall hacking? Or just a massive rager who goes on forums etc.
On July 25 2016 12:48 Plansix wrote: People who claim they got mugged get the benifit of the doubt. Someone gets beat up, we assume they are not lying. But women and rape are special, apparently.
I tought you were a lawyer or something. I guess you do not practice criminal law. Majority of rape claims are made up by women.
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
The funny thing I know is that if any white person would treat women they way Islam does they'd get total shit of leftists.
Not really. There are thousands of rich, white dudes out there that treat women like garbage and get away with it.
I dont know why you guys waste your time responding to these baits by Plansix. Its such an dishonest analogy, im surprised you bit.
Really I think that if you want to prevent acts of terrorism (which is basically suicide but I'm going to take as many people down with me as possible), then you need people to lead fulfilling lives in the first place.
Now, what leads to happy people? You tell me. As far as I know all of these people (from Orlando, to Nice, to Munich, mother and children stabber in Alps) led relatively normal lives. Both France and Germany were fair (heck, the child stabber was on vacation in the Alps: paid by French taxpayers) to these people.
So where did we go wrong? If it's not us, then it's them. In which case the question is, what's wrong with those people in the first place?
To say "we can't do anything about all of this" is fallacy and weak, in my eyes.
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
Here are my problems with your post:
1. No, people disagreeing with you politically about what to do with terrorism is not a bigger problem than terrorism. 2. Saying "we don't want muslims in Europe" is by definition "islamophobic". This isn't political correctness, this is just basic reading comprehension. 3. What you're trying to say is "islamophobia is justified", but you don't want to say it directly, so you're going on about "political correctness". Political correctness has never been a problem ever. The problem is being logically wrong while politically correct. 4. If at some point we establish that the problem is indeed being logically wrong rather than being politically correct, are you okay with taking a ride with me at that point and seeing which one of us is logically right?
Doesn't a phobia just mean "afraid of something/ someone/ somewhat"? I feel "islamophobia" is pretty darn accurate because ppl are freaking afraid.
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
Here are my problems with your post:
1. No, people disagreeing with you politically about what to do with terrorism is not a bigger problem than terrorism. 2. Saying "we don't want muslims in Europe" is by definition "islamophobic". This isn't political correctness, this is just basic reading comprehension. 3. What you're trying to say is "islamophobia is justified", but you don't want to say it directly, so you're going on about "political correctness". Political correctness has never been a problem ever. The problem is being logically wrong while politically correct. 4. If at some point we establish that the problem is indeed being logically wrong rather than being politically correct, are you okay with taking a ride with me at that point and seeing which one of us is logically right?
Doesn't a phobia just mean "afraid of something/ someone/ somewhat"? I feel "islamophobia" is pretty darn accurate because ppl are freaking afraid.
Well that's not what phobia means in this context, and you know that, don't you? The term may not be very accurate (similarly to 'homophobia'), but as long as we haven't defined other terms we are going to have to stick to words that exist.
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
Here are my problems with your post:
1. No, people disagreeing with you politically about what to do with terrorism is not a bigger problem than terrorism. 2. Saying "we don't want muslims in Europe" is by definition "islamophobic". This isn't political correctness, this is just basic reading comprehension. 3. What you're trying to say is "islamophobia is justified", but you don't want to say it directly, so you're going on about "political correctness". Political correctness has never been a problem ever. The problem is being logically wrong while politically correct. 4. If at some point we establish that the problem is indeed being logically wrong rather than being politically correct, are you okay with taking a ride with me at that point and seeing which one of us is logically right?
Doesn't a phobia just mean "afraid of something/ someone/ somewhat"? I feel "islamophobia" is pretty darn accurate because ppl are freaking afraid.
Well that's not what phobia means in this context, and you know that, don't you? The term may not be very accurate (similarly to 'homophobia'), but as long as we haven't defined other terms we are going to have to stick to words that exist.
Did not expect to be called out like that.... Chapeau. Still, my point (and yours,too) was, throwing around words with somewhat undefined meanings (correctness, phobia) doesn't get us anywhere. People tend to have different opinions (and that is a good thing IMO) and different views.
We should definitely open a new thread since the discussions always boil down to pretty much the same conclusions or lack there of
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
Here are my problems with your post:
1. No, people disagreeing with you politically about what to do with terrorism is not a bigger problem than terrorism. 2. Saying "we don't want muslims in Europe" is by definition "islamophobic". This isn't political correctness, this is just basic reading comprehension. 3. What you're trying to say is "islamophobia is justified", but you don't want to say it directly, so you're going on about "political correctness". Political correctness has never been a problem ever. The problem is being logically wrong while politically correct. 4. If at some point we establish that the problem is indeed being logically wrong rather than being politically correct, are you okay with taking a ride with me at that point and seeing which one of us is logically right?
Doesn't a phobia just mean "afraid of something/ someone/ somewhat"? I feel "islamophobia" is pretty darn accurate because ppl are freaking afraid.
Well that's not what phobia means in this context, and you know that, don't you? The term may not be very accurate (similarly to 'homophobia'), but as long as we haven't defined other terms we are going to have to stick to words that exist.
Did not expect to be called out like that.... Chapeau. Still, my point (and yours,too) was, throwing around words with somewhat undefined meanings (correctness, phobia) doesn't get us anywhere. People tend to have different opinions (and that is a good thing IMO) and different views.
We should definitely open a new thread since the discussions always boil down to pretty much the same conclusions or lack there of
But first lets make a thread where we will reach an agreement what each of term we are going to use in the next thread means.
The reason throwing out words "with somewhat undefined meanings isn't getting us anywhere" is because we have guys like him derailling the topics in a direction he feels is very important but the rest of us had no problem understanding what the other person is trying to say when using those nasty words.
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
Here are my problems with your post:
1. No, people disagreeing with you politically about what to do with terrorism is not a bigger problem than terrorism. 2. Saying "we don't want muslims in Europe" is by definition "islamophobic". This isn't political correctness, this is just basic reading comprehension. 3. What you're trying to say is "islamophobia is justified", but you don't want to say it directly, so you're going on about "political correctness". Political correctness has never been a problem ever. The problem is being logically wrong while politically correct. 4. If at some point we establish that the problem is indeed being logically wrong rather than being politically correct, are you okay with taking a ride with me at that point and seeing which one of us is logically right?
Doesn't a phobia just mean "afraid of something/ someone/ somewhat"? I feel "islamophobia" is pretty darn accurate because ppl are freaking afraid.
Well that's not what phobia means in this context, and you know that, don't you? The term may not be very accurate (similarly to 'homophobia'), but as long as we haven't defined other terms we are going to have to stick to words that exist.
Did not expect to be called out like that.... Chapeau. Still, my point (and yours,too) was, throwing around words with somewhat undefined meanings (correctness, phobia) doesn't get us anywhere. People tend to have different opinions (and that is a good thing IMO) and different views.
We should definitely open a new thread since the discussions always boil down to pretty much the same conclusions or lack there of
But first lets make a thread where we will reach an agreement what each of term we are going to use in the next thread means.
The reason throwing out words "with somewhat undefined meanings isn't getting us anywhere" is because we have guys like him derailling the topics in a direction he feels is very important but the rest of us had no problem understanding what the other person is trying to say when using those nasty words.
I really don't see how I did that at all, please illustrate.
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
Here are my problems with your post:
1. No, people disagreeing with you politically about what to do with terrorism is not a bigger problem than terrorism. 2. Saying "we don't want muslims in Europe" is by definition "islamophobic". This isn't political correctness, this is just basic reading comprehension. 3. What you're trying to say is "islamophobia is justified", but you don't want to say it directly, so you're going on about "political correctness". Political correctness has never been a problem ever. The problem is being logically wrong while politically correct. 4. If at some point we establish that the problem is indeed being logically wrong rather than being politically correct, are you okay with taking a ride with me at that point and seeing which one of us is logically right?
Doesn't a phobia just mean "afraid of something/ someone/ somewhat"? I feel "islamophobia" is pretty darn accurate because ppl are freaking afraid.
Phobias are irrational. The fear is not based on real potential danger.
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
Here are my problems with your post:
1. No, people disagreeing with you politically about what to do with terrorism is not a bigger problem than terrorism. 2. Saying "we don't want muslims in Europe" is by definition "islamophobic". This isn't political correctness, this is just basic reading comprehension. 3. What you're trying to say is "islamophobia is justified", but you don't want to say it directly, so you're going on about "political correctness". Political correctness has never been a problem ever. The problem is being logically wrong while politically correct. 4. If at some point we establish that the problem is indeed being logically wrong rather than being politically correct, are you okay with taking a ride with me at that point and seeing which one of us is logically right?
Doesn't a phobia just mean "afraid of something/ someone/ somewhat"? I feel "islamophobia" is pretty darn accurate because ppl are freaking afraid.
Well that's not what phobia means in this context, and you know that, don't you? The term may not be very accurate (similarly to 'homophobia'), but as long as we haven't defined other terms we are going to have to stick to words that exist.
Did not expect to be called out like that.... Chapeau. Still, my point (and yours,too) was, throwing around words with somewhat undefined meanings (correctness, phobia) doesn't get us anywhere. People tend to have different opinions (and that is a good thing IMO) and different views.
We should definitely open a new thread since the discussions always boil down to pretty much the same conclusions or lack there of
But first lets make a thread where we will reach an agreement what each of term we are going to use in the next thread means.
The reason throwing out words "with somewhat undefined meanings isn't getting us anywhere" is because we have guys like him derailling the topics in a direction he feels is very important but the rest of us had no problem understanding what the other person is trying to say when using those nasty words.
I really don't see how I did that at all, please illustrate.
I do not understand, when you say illustrate, do you mean you want me to draw something or to write out an explanation?
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
Here are my problems with your post:
1. No, people disagreeing with you politically about what to do with terrorism is not a bigger problem than terrorism. 2. Saying "we don't want muslims in Europe" is by definition "islamophobic". This isn't political correctness, this is just basic reading comprehension. 3. What you're trying to say is "islamophobia is justified", but you don't want to say it directly, so you're going on about "political correctness". Political correctness has never been a problem ever. The problem is being logically wrong while politically correct. 4. If at some point we establish that the problem is indeed being logically wrong rather than being politically correct, are you okay with taking a ride with me at that point and seeing which one of us is logically right?
Doesn't a phobia just mean "afraid of something/ someone/ somewhat"? I feel "islamophobia" is pretty darn accurate because ppl are freaking afraid.
Well that's not what phobia means in this context, and you know that, don't you? The term may not be very accurate (similarly to 'homophobia'), but as long as we haven't defined other terms we are going to have to stick to words that exist.
Did not expect to be called out like that.... Chapeau. Still, my point (and yours,too) was, throwing around words with somewhat undefined meanings (correctness, phobia) doesn't get us anywhere. People tend to have different opinions (and that is a good thing IMO) and different views.
We should definitely open a new thread since the discussions always boil down to pretty much the same conclusions or lack there of
But first lets make a thread where we will reach an agreement what each of term we are going to use in the next thread means.
The reason throwing out words "with somewhat undefined meanings isn't getting us anywhere" is because we have guys like him derailling the topics in a direction he feels is very important but the rest of us had no problem understanding what the other person is trying to say when using those nasty words.
I really don't see how I did that at all, please illustrate.
I do not understand, when you say illustrate, do you mean you want me to draw something or to write out an explanation?
I understood your accusation, smart man. I don't see how it applies to what I wrote. I see how it applies to what you wrote there though, so congratulations.
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
Here are my problems with your post:
1. No, people disagreeing with you politically about what to do with terrorism is not a bigger problem than terrorism. 2. Saying "we don't want muslims in Europe" is by definition "islamophobic". This isn't political correctness, this is just basic reading comprehension. 3. What you're trying to say is "islamophobia is justified", but you don't want to say it directly, so you're going on about "political correctness". Political correctness has never been a problem ever. The problem is being logically wrong while politically correct. 4. If at some point we establish that the problem is indeed being logically wrong rather than being politically correct, are you okay with taking a ride with me at that point and seeing which one of us is logically right?
Doesn't a phobia just mean "afraid of something/ someone/ somewhat"? I feel "islamophobia" is pretty darn accurate because ppl are freaking afraid.
Phobias are irrational. The fear is not based on real potential danger.
Now that you mention that, makes sense. Although, and this is just my superficial knowledge, arent't a lot of those phobias based on some traumatic event that did in fact present real danger? Like, if your were bitten by a dog as a kid and are now afraid pf dogs and such?
To topic: A friend of the asshole knew about what he wanted to do. They both befriended each other in a mental health institute. It was known that he hated people and admired Anders Breivik. They even met shortly before in the shopping center
On July 25 2016 08:55 Shield wrote: I think we've got a bigger problem than terrorism. It's politically correct left wingers who say it's "racist" or "islamophobic" not to want muslims in Europe. Guess what. Islam isn't compatible with foundations of democracy, women's rights, etc, so stop pretending the world is perfect and we can all live happily together. This isn't a fairytale. There are people who die for no reason just because some mad muslim decided so. Some of you will say Breivik? Yeah, what's the ratio of Breivik and fans to that of muslim terrorists?
Here are my problems with your post:
1. No, people disagreeing with you politically about what to do with terrorism is not a bigger problem than terrorism. 2. Saying "we don't want muslims in Europe" is by definition "islamophobic". This isn't political correctness, this is just basic reading comprehension. 3. What you're trying to say is "islamophobia is justified", but you don't want to say it directly, so you're going on about "political correctness". Political correctness has never been a problem ever. The problem is being logically wrong while politically correct. 4. If at some point we establish that the problem is indeed being logically wrong rather than being politically correct, are you okay with taking a ride with me at that point and seeing which one of us is logically right?
Doesn't a phobia just mean "afraid of something/ someone/ somewhat"? I feel "islamophobia" is pretty darn accurate because ppl are freaking afraid.
Phobias are irrational. The fear is not based on real potential danger.
Now that you mention that, makes sense. Although, and this is just my superficial knowledge, arent't a lot of those phobias based on some traumatic event that did in fact present real danger? Like, if your were bitten by a dog as a kid and are now afraid pf dogs and such?
To topic: A friend of the asshole knew about what he wanted to do. They both befriended each other in a mental health institute. It was known that he hated people and admired Anders Breivik. They even met shortly before in the shopping center
Some people are afraid of snakes, no matter the size or danger. I have a weird phobia of large objects in water that is 100% irrational. The idea of a submarine or whale in the water when I was triggers some weird fear response in my brain that has no rational basis. Logically I would know I was in no danger, but my lizard brain in freaking the fuck out. It is a phobia and it has no basis in reality as far as I can tell. It might be do to the lack of viability, but I don't have the problem in fog.
Cultural phobias are similar. You are read stories from people who start to get worried because a Muslim person is riding on the plane with them. The more self aware ones know that it is irrational, because that person has given them no reason to be fearful.
The attacker who left a bomb outside a bar in Ansbach, Germany, had enough materials to make another explosive device, according to police. The man also pledged allegiance to Islamic State in a video found on his phone.
The attacker, identified as Mohammad D., possessed gasoline, chemicals, and other material that could be used to make a bomb, Bavarian Interior Minister Joachim Hermann said, as cited by AP.
The attacker had also pledged allegiance to Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL) leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi on one of his phones.
"A provisional translation by an interpreter shows that he expressly announces, in the name of Allah, and testifying his allegiance to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, a famous Islamist leader, an act of revenge against the Germans because they're getting in the way of Islam," Hermann said at a news conference.
"I think that after this video there's no doubt that the attack was a terrorist attack with an Islamist background," he added.
Despite his failed bombing attempt, they found a lot of nails etc found in the area to be used as shrapnel which of course is to increase the amount of damage caused.
A witness who was in the McDonald's restaurant said her son was in the bathroom with the gunman. "That's where he loaded his weapon," said Lauretta, who only wanted to be identified by her first name. She said she saw many young casualties. "I hear like an alarm and boom, boom, boom ... and he's still killing the children. The children were sitting to eat. They can't run." Lauretta said she heard the gunman say, "Allahu Akbar," or "God is great" in Arabic. "I know this because I'm Muslim. I hear this and I only cry," she said.
Witness Huseyin Bayri said he was riding his bike outside the restaurant when he saw the attacker yelling. "I heard a scream at first: 'You shitty ... foreigners. I am German. You will get it,'" Bayri said.
The bomber of Ansbach had pledged allegiance to ISIS, the shooter of Munich did not, according to the police. He was motivated by former shootings in schools and Breivik and apparantly wanted to kill foreigners. The guy in Reutlingen is tricky but the police is currently thinking the motive is the relationship with the female coworker that died. They are all completely different, i am very curious which topic stays in the media. The threat of islamic terror, the threat of computer games or the threat of mass shootings by unstable persons. In the end, as Newt Gingrich stated in the US, it's not the facts that matter but the feelings you have about them and i am sure a lot of fear is going to get stirred. So far the media i have seen has been pretty objective though.
The man in Reutlingen attacked her with a machete of all things, and attacked other people as well. Considering he was stopped by another car I don't think it was a relationship. My theory is that he admired her and was sad that she rebuffed his advances. He then let his wounded pride take him too far.
A witness who was in the McDonald's restaurant said her son was in the bathroom with the gunman. "That's where he loaded his weapon," said Lauretta, who only wanted to be identified by her first name. She said she saw many young casualties. "I hear like an alarm and boom, boom, boom ... and he's still killing the children. The children were sitting to eat. They can't run." Lauretta said she heard the gunman say, "Allahu Akbar," or "God is great" in Arabic. "I know this because I'm Muslim. I hear this and I only cry," she said.
Witness Huseyin Bayri said he was riding his bike outside the restaurant when he saw the attacker yelling. "I heard a scream at first: 'You shitty ... foreigners. I am German. You will get it,'" Bayri said.
A witness who was in the McDonald's restaurant said her son was in the bathroom with the gunman. "That's where he loaded his weapon," said Lauretta, who only wanted to be identified by her first name. She said she saw many young casualties. "I hear like an alarm and boom, boom, boom ... and he's still killing the children. The children were sitting to eat. They can't run." Lauretta said she heard the gunman say, "Allahu Akbar," or "God is great" in Arabic. "I know this because I'm Muslim. I hear this and I only cry," she said.
Witness Huseyin Bayri said he was riding his bike outside the restaurant when he saw the attacker yelling. "I heard a scream at first: 'You shitty ... foreigners. I am German. You will get it,'" Bayri said.
On July 26 2016 00:28 SK.Testie wrote: The man in Reutlingen attacked her with a machete of all things, and attacked other people as well. Considering he was stopped by another car I don't think it was a relationship. My theory is that he admired her and was sad that she rebuffed his advances. He then let his wounded pride take him too far.
Wasn't a machete, but a "Dönermesser". Kebabknife, i guess.
edit
Why post this? It's 2 days old and turned out false.
What did? Looking at this, it seems to be accurate, although i just skimmed it.
A witness who was in the McDonald's restaurant said her son was in the bathroom with the gunman. "That's where he loaded his weapon," said Lauretta, who only wanted to be identified by her first name. She said she saw many young casualties. "I hear like an alarm and boom, boom, boom ... and he's still killing the children. The children were sitting to eat. They can't run." Lauretta said she heard the gunman say, "Allahu Akbar," or "God is great" in Arabic. "I know this because I'm Muslim. I hear this and I only cry," she said.
Witness Huseyin Bayri said he was riding his bike outside the restaurant when he saw the attacker yelling. "I heard a scream at first: 'You shitty ... foreigners. I am German. You will get it,'" Bayri said.
I dont want to derail this thread that hard, but after 10 pages have been about how these attacks are connected to multi-culturalism and how monocultured states are much saver from them...
A attacker in Japan killed atleast 15 people and injured 45 more in a home for disabled people with a knife.
On July 26 2016 08:38 Clonester wrote: I dont want to derail this thread that hard, but after 10 pages have been about how these attacks are connected to multi-culturalism and how monocultured states are much saver from them...
A attacker in Japan killed atleast 15 people and injured 45 more in a home for disabled people with a knife.
Yes. But it's a lot rarer in Japan isn't it. A lot rarer.
This was one rando attacker that Japan might have every few years. You had 4 people pop-off and go haywire this week. Never forget, they actually downplayed the sexual assaults in Cologne. (This happened all over your country btw).
The sweetest part about it is that liberals think the best way to deal with it is to hide the information from the public, downplay the events, and never let them know how bad it is. Because kicking the can down the road is a great idea. w/e, you guys will handle it fine I'm sure. Just enjoy your 100% chance of increased crime rates and lowered social cohesion.
All of the incidents involved women being surrounded and assaulted by groups of men on the street.[23][24] There are more than 1,900 victims – 1,200 of whom were sexually assaulted – and police stated that at least 2,000 men were involved, acting in groups.[25] Police reported that the perpetrators were men of "Arab or North African appearance" and said that Germany had never experienced such mass sexual assaults before.[24][26][27][28][29] The attacks sparked an international outcry, a debate about women's rights, the sustainability of Germany's asylum policy, and social differences between European societies and those of North Africa and the Middle East. Taking place during the European migrant crisis (see timeline), the attacks also led to a hardening of attitudes against mass immigration.[30]
In Düsseldorf, nine persons were named as suspects, eight of whom are migrants.[85] According to a media report, an 18-year-old woman from Mönchengladbach recognized a perpetrator in a report of Spiegel TV and decided to make a complaint to the police afterwards. The 33-year-old man, who is suspected to have sexually offended the woman in Düsseldorf out of a group, was arrested by investigators.[33] In Dortmund, nine further people were put under suspicion, seven of them migrants.[85] In Bielefeld, four migrants from Morocco and Algeria were identified as suspects.[85] By 20 January, the North Rhine-Westphalia Police, responsible for Bielefeld, Cologne, Dortmund, and Düsseldorf, reported that 52 people were being treated as suspects; a majority of them were of non-German origin.[18]
Eight people were named as suspects in Hamburg, all of them migrants and some of them refugees.[16] On 20 January, Hamburg police published photos of two wanted persons who are suspected to have sexually assaulted an 18-year-old girl in the early morning hours of 1 January on the street of Große Freiheit,[77] which led to the arrest of a 29-year-old male migrant from Afghanistan on 21 January. He was recognised by a security guard of a refugee reception center in Hamburg. A second suspected migrant was freed shortly after his arrest due to a lack of adequate suspicion.[78] On 26 January, Hamburg police published another photo of a wanted person, who is suspected to have sexually assaulted two 20-year-old women on New Year's Eve while acting as part of a group.[119] On 5 February, a 33-year-old man from Iran was reported to have been arrested in a refugee reception center in Hamburg and taken into investigative custody under suspicion of assaulting the two women in Hamburg.[120][121] On 4 February, Hamburg police released photos of two further suspects. The nationwide TV series Aktenzeichen XY … ungelöst was used for the manhunt for the Hamburg perpetrators.[3]
In Stuttgart, a 20-year-old asylum seeker from Iraq was detained for sexually assaulting two girls while acting out of a group.[84] In Frankfurt, the police is investigating ten men in the ages of 15 to 27, all asylum seekers or refugees, who were temporarily arrested for pickpocketing on New Year's Eve near the bridge of Eiserner Steg. They are trying to determine if these men were involved in the sexual assaults. One of the suspects is in investigative custody.[83]
Reinhard Merkel, a law professor from Hamburg, said that convicting the suspects, especially for sexual offences, will be difficult because an unequivocal identification by the victims is needed, which is often not the case. Furthermore, policemen stated that the video footage of the cameras within and outside the Cologne main station is partly unusable.[122]
So the police released a report today about what exactly happened:
After the shooting in the mall, the attacker went into the parking garage of the mall, where he fired 17 rounds into a parked car. He then proceeded to the parking deck, where the shouting match with the guy from the window cell phone video occured. Police on the ground level spotted him on the parking deck and shot at him, but missed.
He then fled the parking deck and went through a small park and into a residential building. At this point he had put away his gun and actually met and talked to several people he randomly met on the staircase in the residential building. The people had no idea who he was and one person actually offered him help. Police: There could have been more victims, but apparently he was done killing people.
He then hid for about 2 hours in the basement of the building while the search was going on. After that he emerged from the basement, and immediately encountered police. That's when he shot himself.
Also, the police arrested a couple suspected of illegally selling the hand gun to the attacker. Police posed as potential buyers on dark net and arrested the man and woman at the exchange. The man apparently said during the buying process that he had been the one who sold the Munich attacker his gun.
The guy who thrown his beer and insulted him might actually have made him reconsider his action, leading him to wandering around and eventually killing himself ?
Probably impossible to say. Who knows what goes on in the head of a guy that insane. I like to think that the random dude throwing beer at him and insulting him really did prevent further killings. Would make a great story.
However, the suicide was definitely part of the plan, seeing how obsessed he was with previous (school) shootings and the usual school shooting play book.
EPT
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