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On July 01 2015 05:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
I think it's stupid to talk about banning it since that's not what people are asking for.
From OP:
Apple is removing from the App Store any games or other software featuring the Confederate Flag. This, of course, follows the recent shooting in South Carolina, which triggered a nationwide debate over whether the flag should be flown at government buildings (or anywhere).
I think that last part implies banning.
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On July 01 2015 05:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
I think it's stupid to talk about banning it since that's not what people are asking for. From OP: Show nested quote +
Apple is removing from the App Store any games or other software featuring the Confederate Flag. This, of course, follows the recent shooting in South Carolina, which triggered a nationwide debate over whether the flag should be flown at government buildings (or anywhere).
I think that last part implies banning.
That's called opinion. Apple of of the opinion that the flag is a worthless racist rag that isn't fit to mop of dog poo. Other people have the same opinion. That doesn't mean a law is going to be passed, just people expressing how they feel on the subject. Sorry if that scares you, but that's what freedom of expression is all about.
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On July 01 2015 04:53 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 04:00 Djzapz wrote:On July 01 2015 03:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Personally I believe symbols mean what people want them to mean. The gays used the pink triangle that originally labeled them as sexual deviants in Nazi concentration camps as a symbol of gay pride. If a bunch of people start flying the Confederate flag and saying it means southern pride, and there's enough of them, they're not wrong. Of course for the people who don't believe that, they're not wrong either, because the symbol means something completely different there. But we don't have many people left who believe gays should wear a symbol for public identification.
As for the issue itself, my only opposition to the flag is that flying a symbol of sedition above public or government property isn't right. Other than that, it doesn't really matter. My neighbor can keep a swastika flag or a Confederate flag or an ISIS flag in his house, and as long as he isn't bothering me, more power to him; it's his right. If I want to buy apps or shirts or flags with Confederate symbols, I should have that right, whether I'm just a fan of Civil War history, or I like the south, or I actually want slavery to be reinstated. And the flip side is that if I wear a shirt with a Confederate flag on the street, people have the right to call me a racist if that's how they interpret the message. I would think that openly voicing your desire to have certain people enslaved would qualify as some sort of hate speech... As much as I'm in favor of freedom of expression, it seems like using that freedom of expression to remove the freedom of others is just abusive as fuck and it's essentially a caricature of the concept of freedom. I mean isn't a big argument for freedom of expression that if you were a minority opinion you would want to be able to voice it. Yet there's a conflict when your opinion is that certain other opinions must be silenced and certain people don't deserve to have it because genetics or something. I don't see the problem with hate speech in itself as long as it doesn't escalate into action. Both the klansman who wants to stop the 'browning' of America and the professor who wants to exterminate white people have the right to say what they want, assuming they're not on private property where the owner decides otherwise, etc. I don't agree at all with either of these viewpoints, but as long as the klansman doesn't start vandalizing non-white properties or the professor doesn't start putting his extermination plan into action, I don't have a problem with what they're saying. But again, that's not to say their opinions shouldn't be criticized or ridiculed. And the belief that certain beliefs must be silenced also falls under that belief, as long as those latter beliefs aren't actually being silenced.
That, to me, serves no practical purpose, and it's just following a rule to the letter for no reason other than some dogmatic unreasoned belief that it is how it "should" be.
Yet I don't support the banning of those flags, but I'm surprised to see that talks of enslaving people and murdering millions are somehow protected as legitimate political opinions but meh. A few people will die due to a few idiots who'll take those speeches to heart and we'll shrug.
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On July 01 2015 05:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
I think it's stupid to talk about banning it since that's not what people are asking for. From OP: Show nested quote +
Apple is removing from the App Store any games or other software featuring the Confederate Flag. This, of course, follows the recent shooting in South Carolina, which triggered a nationwide debate over whether the flag should be flown at government buildings (or anywhere).
I think that last part implies banning.
You're wrong, it doesn't. It implies that people with any decency probably shouldn't fly it either. Like one shouldn't wear nazi regalia in Detroit
It's not banned, just shouldn't be done.
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On July 01 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
I think it's stupid to talk about banning it since that's not what people are asking for. From OP:
Apple is removing from the App Store any games or other software featuring the Confederate Flag. This, of course, follows the recent shooting in South Carolina, which triggered a nationwide debate over whether the flag should be flown at government buildings (or anywhere).
I think that last part implies banning. That's called opinion. Apple of of the opinion that the flag is a worthless racist rag that isn't fit to mop of dog poo. Other people have the same opinion. That doesn't mean a law is going to be passed, just people expressing how they feel on the subject. Sorry if that scares you, but that's what freedom of expression is all about.
Some people have the opinion it should be banned. Some people are asking for it, which is exactly the opposite of what GreenHorizons said. I don't have any problem with this opinion, and I even respect the right of people who whole this opinion, I just disagree with it. I even agree with you on the fact that it shouldn't be flying in Charleston. But if someone in Charleston wants to hang one on their own house, I support their decision.
Apple can express their opinion all they want, and I also can express mine criticizing theirs. That's why I love freedom of expression. And the awesome thing about the free market is people can vote with their money where they want. Personally I don't use the Apple Store, so regarding the Apple ban itself, I don't have a horse in this race. But just like them, and just like you, I can express how I feel on this subject and the surrounding debate.
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On July 01 2015 05:50 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
I think it's stupid to talk about banning it since that's not what people are asking for. From OP:
Apple is removing from the App Store any games or other software featuring the Confederate Flag. This, of course, follows the recent shooting in South Carolina, which triggered a nationwide debate over whether the flag should be flown at government buildings (or anywhere).
I think that last part implies banning. That's called opinion. Apple of of the opinion that the flag is a worthless racist rag that isn't fit to mop of dog poo. Other people have the same opinion. That doesn't mean a law is going to be passed, just people expressing how they feel on the subject. Sorry if that scares you, but that's what freedom of expression is all about. Some people have the opinion it should be banned. Some people are asking for it, which is exactly the opposite of what GreenHorizons said. I don't have any problem with this opinion, and I even respect the right of people who whole this opinion, I just disagree with it. I even agree with you on the fact that it shouldn't be flying in Charleston. But if someone in Charleston wants to hang one on their own house, I support their decision. Apple can express their opinion all they want, and I also can express mine criticizing theirs. That's why I love freedom of expression. And the awesome thing about the free market is people can vote with their money where they want. Personally I don't use the Apple Store, so regarding the Apple ban itself, I don't have a horse in this race. But just like them, and just like you, I can express how I feel on this subject and the surrounding debate.
But your claim of a large majority of people requesting a ban is false. No one is pushing for a law preventing people from showing the flag.
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On July 01 2015 05:30 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 04:53 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 04:00 Djzapz wrote:On July 01 2015 03:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Personally I believe symbols mean what people want them to mean. The gays used the pink triangle that originally labeled them as sexual deviants in Nazi concentration camps as a symbol of gay pride. If a bunch of people start flying the Confederate flag and saying it means southern pride, and there's enough of them, they're not wrong. Of course for the people who don't believe that, they're not wrong either, because the symbol means something completely different there. But we don't have many people left who believe gays should wear a symbol for public identification.
As for the issue itself, my only opposition to the flag is that flying a symbol of sedition above public or government property isn't right. Other than that, it doesn't really matter. My neighbor can keep a swastika flag or a Confederate flag or an ISIS flag in his house, and as long as he isn't bothering me, more power to him; it's his right. If I want to buy apps or shirts or flags with Confederate symbols, I should have that right, whether I'm just a fan of Civil War history, or I like the south, or I actually want slavery to be reinstated. And the flip side is that if I wear a shirt with a Confederate flag on the street, people have the right to call me a racist if that's how they interpret the message. I would think that openly voicing your desire to have certain people enslaved would qualify as some sort of hate speech... As much as I'm in favor of freedom of expression, it seems like using that freedom of expression to remove the freedom of others is just abusive as fuck and it's essentially a caricature of the concept of freedom. I mean isn't a big argument for freedom of expression that if you were a minority opinion you would want to be able to voice it. Yet there's a conflict when your opinion is that certain other opinions must be silenced and certain people don't deserve to have it because genetics or something. I don't see the problem with hate speech in itself as long as it doesn't escalate into action. Both the klansman who wants to stop the 'browning' of America and the professor who wants to exterminate white people have the right to say what they want, assuming they're not on private property where the owner decides otherwise, etc. I don't agree at all with either of these viewpoints, but as long as the klansman doesn't start vandalizing non-white properties or the professor doesn't start putting his extermination plan into action, I don't have a problem with what they're saying. But again, that's not to say their opinions shouldn't be criticized or ridiculed. And the belief that certain beliefs must be silenced also falls under that belief, as long as those latter beliefs aren't actually being silenced. That, to me, serves no practical purpose, and it's just following a rule to the letter for no reason other than some dogmatic unreasoned belief that it is how it "should" be. Yet I don't support the banning of those flags, but I'm surprised to see that talks of enslaving people and murdering millions are somehow protected as legitimate political opinions but meh. A few people will die due to a few idiots who'll take those speeches to heart and we'll shrug.
Because where do you draw the line between a legitimate political opinion and an illegitimate one?
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On July 01 2015 05:50 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
I think it's stupid to talk about banning it since that's not what people are asking for. From OP:
Apple is removing from the App Store any games or other software featuring the Confederate Flag. This, of course, follows the recent shooting in South Carolina, which triggered a nationwide debate over whether the flag should be flown at government buildings (or anywhere).
I think that last part implies banning. That's called opinion. Apple of of the opinion that the flag is a worthless racist rag that isn't fit to mop of dog poo. Other people have the same opinion. That doesn't mean a law is going to be passed, just people expressing how they feel on the subject. Sorry if that scares you, but that's what freedom of expression is all about. Some people have the opinion it should be banned. Some people are asking for it, which is exactly the opposite of what GreenHorizons said. I don't have any problem with this opinion, and I even respect the right of people who whole this opinion, I just disagree with it. I even agree with you on the fact that it shouldn't be flying in Charleston. But if someone in Charleston wants to hang one on their own house, I support their decision. Apple can express their opinion all they want, and I also can express mine criticizing theirs. That's why I love freedom of expression. And the awesome thing about the free market is people can vote with their money where they want. Personally I don't use the Apple Store, so regarding the Apple ban itself, I don't have a horse in this race. But just like them, and just like you, I can express how I feel on this subject and the surrounding debate.
Some people are asking for a condo on Mars. People asking for something isn't the bar for it to be treated with any credibility.
There is no credible efforts to ban the flag, it's just a stupid thing to talk about. A way to distract from the actual issues.
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On July 01 2015 05:24 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
Nothing has been or will be banned so...
On July 01 2015 05:24 Plansix wrote:
People don't seem to understand the concept of willingly disassociating with a racist symbol and just assume its banning because "people are offended blah blah blah more dismissive crap"
You might be confusing the fact that these are companies, and not an arm of government, with the question of whether it's a ban (which it is). If your account gets suspended from battle.net, it's a ban, not a "willing dissociation." If I kick smokers out of my store, then I've banned smoking from that store. If I create a hundreds of dollars piece of technology that fits in your pocket, and that grants exclusive access to the only shopping mall available exclusively for the millions of people who bought that technology, and then in one corner of the probably hundreds of square kilometers shopping mall, there's a couple of people selling things with a certain arrangement of colors and shapes on them, and I shut down whatever they're doing, that's commonly understood to be "banning" which is why you see the OP and its links all say that these places have banned the flag or the symbol.
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On July 01 2015 05:55 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:24 heliusx wrote:On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
Nothing has been or will be banned so... Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:24 Plansix wrote:
People don't seem to understand the concept of willingly disassociating with a racist symbol and just assume its banning because "people are offended blah blah blah more dismissive crap" You might be confusing the fact that these are companies, and not an arm of government, with the question of whether it's a ban (which it is). If your account gets suspended from battle.net, it's a ban, not a "willing dissociation." If I kick smokers out of my store, then I've banned smoking from that store. If I create a hundreds of dollars piece of technology that fits in your pocket, and that grants exclusive access to the only shopping mall available exclusively for the millions of people who bought that technology, and then in one corner of the probably hundreds of square kilometers shopping mall, there's a couple of people selling things with a certain arrangement of colors and shapes on them, and I shut down whatever they're doing, that's commonly understood to be "banning" which is why you see the OP and its links all say that these places have banned the flag or the symbol.
As if anyone who wants one of the flags can't still easily find one? It's not like China gives a shit about whether it is offensive or not.
People are just being outright stupid about this.
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On July 01 2015 05:55 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:24 heliusx wrote:On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
Nothing has been or will be banned so... Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:24 Plansix wrote:
People don't seem to understand the concept of willingly disassociating with a racist symbol and just assume its banning because "people are offended blah blah blah more dismissive crap" You might be confusing the fact that these are companies, and not an arm of government, with the question of whether it's a ban (which it is). If your account gets suspended from battle.net, it's a ban, not a "willing dissociation." If I kick smokers out of my store, then I've banned smoking from that store. If I create a hundreds of dollars piece of technology that fits in your pocket, and that grants exclusive access to the only shopping mall available exclusively for the millions of people who bought that technology, and then in one corner of the probably hundreds of square kilometers shopping mall, there's a couple of people selling things with a certain arrangement of colors and shapes on them, and I shut down whatever they're doing, that's commonly understood to be "banning" which is why you see the OP and its links all say that these places have banned the flag or the symbol.
My ability walk naked through the mall is also banned. When will the oppression of private entities making decisions for themselves end.
Unless you are for the government forcing these companies to carry the flag, which would be weird.
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On July 01 2015 05:55 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:50 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
I think it's stupid to talk about banning it since that's not what people are asking for. From OP:
Apple is removing from the App Store any games or other software featuring the Confederate Flag. This, of course, follows the recent shooting in South Carolina, which triggered a nationwide debate over whether the flag should be flown at government buildings (or anywhere).
I think that last part implies banning. That's called opinion. Apple of of the opinion that the flag is a worthless racist rag that isn't fit to mop of dog poo. Other people have the same opinion. That doesn't mean a law is going to be passed, just people expressing how they feel on the subject. Sorry if that scares you, but that's what freedom of expression is all about. Some people have the opinion it should be banned. Some people are asking for it, which is exactly the opposite of what GreenHorizons said. I don't have any problem with this opinion, and I even respect the right of people who whole this opinion, I just disagree with it. I even agree with you on the fact that it shouldn't be flying in Charleston. But if someone in Charleston wants to hang one on their own house, I support their decision. Apple can express their opinion all they want, and I also can express mine criticizing theirs. That's why I love freedom of expression. And the awesome thing about the free market is people can vote with their money where they want. Personally I don't use the Apple Store, so regarding the Apple ban itself, I don't have a horse in this race. But just like them, and just like you, I can express how I feel on this subject and the surrounding debate. Some people are asking for a condo on Mars. People asking for something isn't the bar for it to be treated with any credibility. There is no credible efforts to ban the flag, it's just a stupid thing to talk about. A way to distract from the actual issues.
On July 01 2015 05:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
As if anyone who wants one of the flags can't still easily find one? It's not like China gives a shit about whether it is offensive or not.
People are just being outright stupid about this.
oBlade pretty much hit the nail on the head, but there's a lot of towns where your only alternative to Walmart for some of the goods it sells is dozens of miles away, if not more. And a lot of that open space is in formerly Confederate areas where people like that kind of merchandise.
Sure on paper you could find one, but unless you sail to China or break into a warehouse, it's not going to be easy for people in those areas.
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On July 01 2015 06:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2015 05:50 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
I think it's stupid to talk about banning it since that's not what people are asking for. From OP:
Apple is removing from the App Store any games or other software featuring the Confederate Flag. This, of course, follows the recent shooting in South Carolina, which triggered a nationwide debate over whether the flag should be flown at government buildings (or anywhere).
I think that last part implies banning. That's called opinion. Apple of of the opinion that the flag is a worthless racist rag that isn't fit to mop of dog poo. Other people have the same opinion. That doesn't mean a law is going to be passed, just people expressing how they feel on the subject. Sorry if that scares you, but that's what freedom of expression is all about. Some people have the opinion it should be banned. Some people are asking for it, which is exactly the opposite of what GreenHorizons said. I don't have any problem with this opinion, and I even respect the right of people who whole this opinion, I just disagree with it. I even agree with you on the fact that it shouldn't be flying in Charleston. But if someone in Charleston wants to hang one on their own house, I support their decision. Apple can express their opinion all they want, and I also can express mine criticizing theirs. That's why I love freedom of expression. And the awesome thing about the free market is people can vote with their money where they want. Personally I don't use the Apple Store, so regarding the Apple ban itself, I don't have a horse in this race. But just like them, and just like you, I can express how I feel on this subject and the surrounding debate. Some people are asking for a condo on Mars. People asking for something isn't the bar for it to be treated with any credibility. There is no credible efforts to ban the flag, it's just a stupid thing to talk about. A way to distract from the actual issues. Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
As if anyone who wants one of the flags can't still easily find one? It's not like China gives a shit about whether it is offensive or not.
People are just being outright stupid about this. oBlade pretty much hit the nail on the head, but there's a lot of towns where your only alternative to Walmart for some of the goods it sells is dozens of miles away, if not more. And a lot of that open space is in formerly Confederate areas where people like that kind of merchandise. Sure on paper you could find one, but unless you sail to China or break into a warehouse, it's not going to be easy for people in those areas.
Boooohoooo, people can't buy their racist flags on their weekly trip to Walmart, whatever will they do. They might have to special order one using the internet, the place where you can order a full body cat suit or replica of the gun from Blade Runner. The suffering and inconvenience.
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On July 01 2015 05:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:55 oBlade wrote:On July 01 2015 05:24 heliusx wrote:On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
Nothing has been or will be banned so... On July 01 2015 05:24 Plansix wrote:
People don't seem to understand the concept of willingly disassociating with a racist symbol and just assume its banning because "people are offended blah blah blah more dismissive crap" You might be confusing the fact that these are companies, and not an arm of government, with the question of whether it's a ban (which it is). If your account gets suspended from battle.net, it's a ban, not a "willing dissociation." If I kick smokers out of my store, then I've banned smoking from that store. If I create a hundreds of dollars piece of technology that fits in your pocket, and that grants exclusive access to the only shopping mall available exclusively for the millions of people who bought that technology, and then in one corner of the probably hundreds of square kilometers shopping mall, there's a couple of people selling things with a certain arrangement of colors and shapes on them, and I shut down whatever they're doing, that's commonly understood to be "banning" which is why you see the OP and its links all say that these places have banned the flag or the symbol. My ability walk naked through the mall is also banned. When will the oppression of private entities making decisions for themselves end. Unless you are for the government forcing these companies to carry the flag, which would be weird.
The difference is, you can go walk naked in your house, or in the woods, or you could lobby your government to make it legal to walk naked in the street if it already isn't. People are satisfied by these alternatives, so there isn't a push to get stores to allow walking naked on their property.
It's too early to say, but if demand is high enough above supply and there isn't some chain that starts advertising their Confederate flags, popular pressure will rise. This is why NASCAR, also a private organization, is condemning the flag but not outright banning it (at least for now), since they have a lot of people in their fanbase that fly it.
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On July 01 2015 06:05 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 06:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2015 05:50 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
I think it's stupid to talk about banning it since that's not what people are asking for. From OP:
Apple is removing from the App Store any games or other software featuring the Confederate Flag. This, of course, follows the recent shooting in South Carolina, which triggered a nationwide debate over whether the flag should be flown at government buildings (or anywhere).
I think that last part implies banning. That's called opinion. Apple of of the opinion that the flag is a worthless racist rag that isn't fit to mop of dog poo. Other people have the same opinion. That doesn't mean a law is going to be passed, just people expressing how they feel on the subject. Sorry if that scares you, but that's what freedom of expression is all about. Some people have the opinion it should be banned. Some people are asking for it, which is exactly the opposite of what GreenHorizons said. I don't have any problem with this opinion, and I even respect the right of people who whole this opinion, I just disagree with it. I even agree with you on the fact that it shouldn't be flying in Charleston. But if someone in Charleston wants to hang one on their own house, I support their decision. Apple can express their opinion all they want, and I also can express mine criticizing theirs. That's why I love freedom of expression. And the awesome thing about the free market is people can vote with their money where they want. Personally I don't use the Apple Store, so regarding the Apple ban itself, I don't have a horse in this race. But just like them, and just like you, I can express how I feel on this subject and the surrounding debate. Some people are asking for a condo on Mars. People asking for something isn't the bar for it to be treated with any credibility. There is no credible efforts to ban the flag, it's just a stupid thing to talk about. A way to distract from the actual issues. On July 01 2015 05:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
As if anyone who wants one of the flags can't still easily find one? It's not like China gives a shit about whether it is offensive or not.
People are just being outright stupid about this. oBlade pretty much hit the nail on the head, but there's a lot of towns where your only alternative to Walmart for some of the goods it sells is dozens of miles away, if not more. And a lot of that open space is in formerly Confederate areas where people like that kind of merchandise. Sure on paper you could find one, but unless you sail to China or break into a warehouse, it's not going to be easy for people in those areas. Boooohoooo, people can't buy their racist flags on their weekly trip to Walmart, whatever will they do. They might have to special order one using the internet, the place where you can order a full body cat suit or replica of the gun from Blade Runner. The suffering and inconvenience.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/24/amazon-bans-confederate-flags-still-sells-nazi-merchandise/
http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/confederate-flag-walmart-south-carolina/
Sales of three versions of the flag were up 1,670% to 2,305% over a period of 24 hours, according to Amazon data. One of those flags, priced at $1.80 plus shipping, is currently the ninth best-selling item in the Patio, Lawn & Garden department and the top-selling item among all outdoor flags and banners sold on Amazon.
I kinda wish I had some flags to sell.
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On July 01 2015 06:07 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:59 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:55 oBlade wrote:On July 01 2015 05:24 heliusx wrote:On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
Nothing has been or will be banned so... On July 01 2015 05:24 Plansix wrote:
People don't seem to understand the concept of willingly disassociating with a racist symbol and just assume its banning because "people are offended blah blah blah more dismissive crap" You might be confusing the fact that these are companies, and not an arm of government, with the question of whether it's a ban (which it is). If your account gets suspended from battle.net, it's a ban, not a "willing dissociation." If I kick smokers out of my store, then I've banned smoking from that store. If I create a hundreds of dollars piece of technology that fits in your pocket, and that grants exclusive access to the only shopping mall available exclusively for the millions of people who bought that technology, and then in one corner of the probably hundreds of square kilometers shopping mall, there's a couple of people selling things with a certain arrangement of colors and shapes on them, and I shut down whatever they're doing, that's commonly understood to be "banning" which is why you see the OP and its links all say that these places have banned the flag or the symbol. My ability walk naked through the mall is also banned. When will the oppression of private entities making decisions for themselves end. Unless you are for the government forcing these companies to carry the flag, which would be weird. The difference is, you can go walk naked in your house, or in the woods, or you could lobby your government to make it legal to walk naked in the street if it already isn't. People are satisfied by these alternatives, so there isn't a push to get stores to allow walking naked on their property. It's too early to say, but if demand is high enough above supply and there isn't some chain that starts advertising their Confederate flags, popular pressure will rise. This is why NASCAR, also a private organization, is condemning the flag but not outright banning it (at least for now), since they have a lot of people in their fanbase that fly it.
Life is hard, get a helmet. 5 black churches were burned in South Carolina, so people have bigger shit to worry about than people who want to express their love of "states rights" have to wait a week for shipping of their flag.
On July 01 2015 06:10 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 06:05 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 06:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2015 05:50 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
I think it's stupid to talk about banning it since that's not what people are asking for. From OP:
Apple is removing from the App Store any games or other software featuring the Confederate Flag. This, of course, follows the recent shooting in South Carolina, which triggered a nationwide debate over whether the flag should be flown at government buildings (or anywhere).
I think that last part implies banning. That's called opinion. Apple of of the opinion that the flag is a worthless racist rag that isn't fit to mop of dog poo. Other people have the same opinion. That doesn't mean a law is going to be passed, just people expressing how they feel on the subject. Sorry if that scares you, but that's what freedom of expression is all about. Some people have the opinion it should be banned. Some people are asking for it, which is exactly the opposite of what GreenHorizons said. I don't have any problem with this opinion, and I even respect the right of people who whole this opinion, I just disagree with it. I even agree with you on the fact that it shouldn't be flying in Charleston. But if someone in Charleston wants to hang one on their own house, I support their decision. Apple can express their opinion all they want, and I also can express mine criticizing theirs. That's why I love freedom of expression. And the awesome thing about the free market is people can vote with their money where they want. Personally I don't use the Apple Store, so regarding the Apple ban itself, I don't have a horse in this race. But just like them, and just like you, I can express how I feel on this subject and the surrounding debate. Some people are asking for a condo on Mars. People asking for something isn't the bar for it to be treated with any credibility. There is no credible efforts to ban the flag, it's just a stupid thing to talk about. A way to distract from the actual issues. On July 01 2015 05:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
As if anyone who wants one of the flags can't still easily find one? It's not like China gives a shit about whether it is offensive or not.
People are just being outright stupid about this. oBlade pretty much hit the nail on the head, but there's a lot of towns where your only alternative to Walmart for some of the goods it sells is dozens of miles away, if not more. And a lot of that open space is in formerly Confederate areas where people like that kind of merchandise. Sure on paper you could find one, but unless you sail to China or break into a warehouse, it's not going to be easy for people in those areas. Boooohoooo, people can't buy their racist flags on their weekly trip to Walmart, whatever will they do. They might have to special order one using the internet, the place where you can order a full body cat suit or replica of the gun from Blade Runner. The suffering and inconvenience. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/24/amazon-bans-confederate-flags-still-sells-nazi-merchandise/http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/confederate-flag-walmart-south-carolina/Show nested quote +Sales of three versions of the flag were up 1,670% to 2,305% over a period of 24 hours, according to Amazon data. One of those flags, priced at $1.80 plus shipping, is currently the ninth best-selling item in the Patio, Lawn & Garden department and the top-selling item among all outdoor flags and banners sold on Amazon. I kinda wish I had some flags to sell.
Sounds like people are getting what they want before they stop carrying it. I hear sales of Disney movies got up when are put into the vault too.
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On July 01 2015 06:12 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 06:07 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:59 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:55 oBlade wrote:On July 01 2015 05:24 heliusx wrote:On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
Nothing has been or will be banned so... On July 01 2015 05:24 Plansix wrote:
People don't seem to understand the concept of willingly disassociating with a racist symbol and just assume its banning because "people are offended blah blah blah more dismissive crap" You might be confusing the fact that these are companies, and not an arm of government, with the question of whether it's a ban (which it is). If your account gets suspended from battle.net, it's a ban, not a "willing dissociation." If I kick smokers out of my store, then I've banned smoking from that store. If I create a hundreds of dollars piece of technology that fits in your pocket, and that grants exclusive access to the only shopping mall available exclusively for the millions of people who bought that technology, and then in one corner of the probably hundreds of square kilometers shopping mall, there's a couple of people selling things with a certain arrangement of colors and shapes on them, and I shut down whatever they're doing, that's commonly understood to be "banning" which is why you see the OP and its links all say that these places have banned the flag or the symbol. My ability walk naked through the mall is also banned. When will the oppression of private entities making decisions for themselves end. Unless you are for the government forcing these companies to carry the flag, which would be weird. The difference is, you can go walk naked in your house, or in the woods, or you could lobby your government to make it legal to walk naked in the street if it already isn't. People are satisfied by these alternatives, so there isn't a push to get stores to allow walking naked on their property. It's too early to say, but if demand is high enough above supply and there isn't some chain that starts advertising their Confederate flags, popular pressure will rise. This is why NASCAR, also a private organization, is condemning the flag but not outright banning it (at least for now), since they have a lot of people in their fanbase that fly it. Life is hard, get a helmet. 5 black churches were burned in South Carolina, so people have bigger shit to worry about than people who want to express their love of "states rights" have to wait a week for shipping of their flag. Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 06:10 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 06:05 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 06:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2015 05:50 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
I think it's stupid to talk about banning it since that's not what people are asking for. From OP:
Apple is removing from the App Store any games or other software featuring the Confederate Flag. This, of course, follows the recent shooting in South Carolina, which triggered a nationwide debate over whether the flag should be flown at government buildings (or anywhere).
I think that last part implies banning. That's called opinion. Apple of of the opinion that the flag is a worthless racist rag that isn't fit to mop of dog poo. Other people have the same opinion. That doesn't mean a law is going to be passed, just people expressing how they feel on the subject. Sorry if that scares you, but that's what freedom of expression is all about. Some people have the opinion it should be banned. Some people are asking for it, which is exactly the opposite of what GreenHorizons said. I don't have any problem with this opinion, and I even respect the right of people who whole this opinion, I just disagree with it. I even agree with you on the fact that it shouldn't be flying in Charleston. But if someone in Charleston wants to hang one on their own house, I support their decision. Apple can express their opinion all they want, and I also can express mine criticizing theirs. That's why I love freedom of expression. And the awesome thing about the free market is people can vote with their money where they want. Personally I don't use the Apple Store, so regarding the Apple ban itself, I don't have a horse in this race. But just like them, and just like you, I can express how I feel on this subject and the surrounding debate. Some people are asking for a condo on Mars. People asking for something isn't the bar for it to be treated with any credibility. There is no credible efforts to ban the flag, it's just a stupid thing to talk about. A way to distract from the actual issues. On July 01 2015 05:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
As if anyone who wants one of the flags can't still easily find one? It's not like China gives a shit about whether it is offensive or not.
People are just being outright stupid about this. oBlade pretty much hit the nail on the head, but there's a lot of towns where your only alternative to Walmart for some of the goods it sells is dozens of miles away, if not more. And a lot of that open space is in formerly Confederate areas where people like that kind of merchandise. Sure on paper you could find one, but unless you sail to China or break into a warehouse, it's not going to be easy for people in those areas. Boooohoooo, people can't buy their racist flags on their weekly trip to Walmart, whatever will they do. They might have to special order one using the internet, the place where you can order a full body cat suit or replica of the gun from Blade Runner. The suffering and inconvenience. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/24/amazon-bans-confederate-flags-still-sells-nazi-merchandise/http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/confederate-flag-walmart-south-carolina/Sales of three versions of the flag were up 1,670% to 2,305% over a period of 24 hours, according to Amazon data. One of those flags, priced at $1.80 plus shipping, is currently the ninth best-selling item in the Patio, Lawn & Garden department and the top-selling item among all outdoor flags and banners sold on Amazon. I kinda wish I had some flags to sell. Sounds like people are getting what they want before they stop carrying it. I hear sales of Disney movies got up when are put into the vault too.
A nice little confederate flag Truck 'parade' in Georgia too.
It is absolutely pathetic that the Flag is what got all the attention from TL and actually inspired a noted member to post about it.
If it weren't for the people trying to speak sense to those who are clearly clueless I'd just lose all hope for TL.
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On July 01 2015 06:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 06:12 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 06:07 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:59 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:55 oBlade wrote:On July 01 2015 05:24 heliusx wrote:On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
Nothing has been or will be banned so... On July 01 2015 05:24 Plansix wrote:
People don't seem to understand the concept of willingly disassociating with a racist symbol and just assume its banning because "people are offended blah blah blah more dismissive crap" You might be confusing the fact that these are companies, and not an arm of government, with the question of whether it's a ban (which it is). If your account gets suspended from battle.net, it's a ban, not a "willing dissociation." If I kick smokers out of my store, then I've banned smoking from that store. If I create a hundreds of dollars piece of technology that fits in your pocket, and that grants exclusive access to the only shopping mall available exclusively for the millions of people who bought that technology, and then in one corner of the probably hundreds of square kilometers shopping mall, there's a couple of people selling things with a certain arrangement of colors and shapes on them, and I shut down whatever they're doing, that's commonly understood to be "banning" which is why you see the OP and its links all say that these places have banned the flag or the symbol. My ability walk naked through the mall is also banned. When will the oppression of private entities making decisions for themselves end. Unless you are for the government forcing these companies to carry the flag, which would be weird. The difference is, you can go walk naked in your house, or in the woods, or you could lobby your government to make it legal to walk naked in the street if it already isn't. People are satisfied by these alternatives, so there isn't a push to get stores to allow walking naked on their property. It's too early to say, but if demand is high enough above supply and there isn't some chain that starts advertising their Confederate flags, popular pressure will rise. This is why NASCAR, also a private organization, is condemning the flag but not outright banning it (at least for now), since they have a lot of people in their fanbase that fly it. Life is hard, get a helmet. 5 black churches were burned in South Carolina, so people have bigger shit to worry about than people who want to express their love of "states rights" have to wait a week for shipping of their flag. On July 01 2015 06:10 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 06:05 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 06:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2015 05:50 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
I think it's stupid to talk about banning it since that's not what people are asking for. From OP:
Apple is removing from the App Store any games or other software featuring the Confederate Flag. This, of course, follows the recent shooting in South Carolina, which triggered a nationwide debate over whether the flag should be flown at government buildings (or anywhere).
I think that last part implies banning. That's called opinion. Apple of of the opinion that the flag is a worthless racist rag that isn't fit to mop of dog poo. Other people have the same opinion. That doesn't mean a law is going to be passed, just people expressing how they feel on the subject. Sorry if that scares you, but that's what freedom of expression is all about. Some people have the opinion it should be banned. Some people are asking for it, which is exactly the opposite of what GreenHorizons said. I don't have any problem with this opinion, and I even respect the right of people who whole this opinion, I just disagree with it. I even agree with you on the fact that it shouldn't be flying in Charleston. But if someone in Charleston wants to hang one on their own house, I support their decision. Apple can express their opinion all they want, and I also can express mine criticizing theirs. That's why I love freedom of expression. And the awesome thing about the free market is people can vote with their money where they want. Personally I don't use the Apple Store, so regarding the Apple ban itself, I don't have a horse in this race. But just like them, and just like you, I can express how I feel on this subject and the surrounding debate. Some people are asking for a condo on Mars. People asking for something isn't the bar for it to be treated with any credibility. There is no credible efforts to ban the flag, it's just a stupid thing to talk about. A way to distract from the actual issues. On July 01 2015 05:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
As if anyone who wants one of the flags can't still easily find one? It's not like China gives a shit about whether it is offensive or not.
People are just being outright stupid about this. oBlade pretty much hit the nail on the head, but there's a lot of towns where your only alternative to Walmart for some of the goods it sells is dozens of miles away, if not more. And a lot of that open space is in formerly Confederate areas where people like that kind of merchandise. Sure on paper you could find one, but unless you sail to China or break into a warehouse, it's not going to be easy for people in those areas. Boooohoooo, people can't buy their racist flags on their weekly trip to Walmart, whatever will they do. They might have to special order one using the internet, the place where you can order a full body cat suit or replica of the gun from Blade Runner. The suffering and inconvenience. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/24/amazon-bans-confederate-flags-still-sells-nazi-merchandise/http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/confederate-flag-walmart-south-carolina/Sales of three versions of the flag were up 1,670% to 2,305% over a period of 24 hours, according to Amazon data. One of those flags, priced at $1.80 plus shipping, is currently the ninth best-selling item in the Patio, Lawn & Garden department and the top-selling item among all outdoor flags and banners sold on Amazon. I kinda wish I had some flags to sell. Sounds like people are getting what they want before they stop carrying it. I hear sales of Disney movies got up when are put into the vault too. A nice little confederate flag Truck 'parade' in Georgia too. It is absolutely pathetic that the Flag is what got all the attention from TL and actually inspired a noted member to post about it. If it weren't for the people trying to speak sense to those who are clearly clueless I'd just lose all hope for TL.
It's the internet, its filled with all sorts and free market worshiping conservatives love it here. When people liked to a rag like clickbait Breitbart, you know who you're talking to. Seriously, Buzzfeed is better that that shit hole.
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On July 01 2015 05:58 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:55 oBlade wrote:On July 01 2015 05:24 heliusx wrote:On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
Nothing has been or will be banned so... On July 01 2015 05:24 Plansix wrote:
People don't seem to understand the concept of willingly disassociating with a racist symbol and just assume its banning because "people are offended blah blah blah more dismissive crap" You might be confusing the fact that these are companies, and not an arm of government, with the question of whether it's a ban (which it is). If your account gets suspended from battle.net, it's a ban, not a "willing dissociation." If I kick smokers out of my store, then I've banned smoking from that store. If I create a hundreds of dollars piece of technology that fits in your pocket, and that grants exclusive access to the only shopping mall available exclusively for the millions of people who bought that technology, and then in one corner of the probably hundreds of square kilometers shopping mall, there's a couple of people selling things with a certain arrangement of colors and shapes on them, and I shut down whatever they're doing, that's commonly understood to be "banning" which is why you see the OP and its links all say that these places have banned the flag or the symbol. As if anyone who wants one of the flags can't still easily find one? It's not like China gives a shit about whether it is offensive or not. People are just being outright stupid about this.
Then what was the point of banning the symbol to begin with...? In my experience there aren't sites with more traffic, or that are easier and faster to trade on, than Amazon or eBay.
On July 01 2015 05:59 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:55 oBlade wrote:On July 01 2015 05:24 heliusx wrote:On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
Nothing has been or will be banned so... On July 01 2015 05:24 Plansix wrote:
People don't seem to understand the concept of willingly disassociating with a racist symbol and just assume its banning because "people are offended blah blah blah more dismissive crap" You might be confusing the fact that these are companies, and not an arm of government, with the question of whether it's a ban (which it is). If your account gets suspended from battle.net, it's a ban, not a "willing dissociation." If I kick smokers out of my store, then I've banned smoking from that store. If I create a hundreds of dollars piece of technology that fits in your pocket, and that grants exclusive access to the only shopping mall available exclusively for the millions of people who bought that technology, and then in one corner of the probably hundreds of square kilometers shopping mall, there's a couple of people selling things with a certain arrangement of colors and shapes on them, and I shut down whatever they're doing, that's commonly understood to be "banning" which is why you see the OP and its links all say that these places have banned the flag or the symbol. My ability walk naked through the mall is also banned. When will the oppression of private entities making decisions for themselves end. Unless you are for the government forcing these companies to carry the flag, which would be weird.
The mall is an allegory for the App Store if you didn't get that. The government actually discourages indecent exposure, so your example - whatever your point was - is disanalogous.
This is a question that's in the public interest. My saying these companies are wrong doesn't mean whatever straw you think it means.
On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
If I may elaborate on SoSexy's point, I don't need Amazon.com to protect me from things I think are offensive, because chances are I'm not browsing those things, and I can still recognize that someone else might be interested in those things. Just like I don't need Amazon.com to protect me from things other people are offensive, because I might be interested in those things. I'm not a fan of A Serbian Film but I'm not writing letters about it. People can try to list their stuff elsewhere after these companies (abruptly) cut them off, but I'd also like to see a lawsuit.
On July 01 2015 06:17 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 06:12 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 06:07 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:59 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:55 oBlade wrote:On July 01 2015 05:24 heliusx wrote:On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
Nothing has been or will be banned so... On July 01 2015 05:24 Plansix wrote:
People don't seem to understand the concept of willingly disassociating with a racist symbol and just assume its banning because "people are offended blah blah blah more dismissive crap" You might be confusing the fact that these are companies, and not an arm of government, with the question of whether it's a ban (which it is). If your account gets suspended from battle.net, it's a ban, not a "willing dissociation." If I kick smokers out of my store, then I've banned smoking from that store. If I create a hundreds of dollars piece of technology that fits in your pocket, and that grants exclusive access to the only shopping mall available exclusively for the millions of people who bought that technology, and then in one corner of the probably hundreds of square kilometers shopping mall, there's a couple of people selling things with a certain arrangement of colors and shapes on them, and I shut down whatever they're doing, that's commonly understood to be "banning" which is why you see the OP and its links all say that these places have banned the flag or the symbol. My ability walk naked through the mall is also banned. When will the oppression of private entities making decisions for themselves end. Unless you are for the government forcing these companies to carry the flag, which would be weird. The difference is, you can go walk naked in your house, or in the woods, or you could lobby your government to make it legal to walk naked in the street if it already isn't. People are satisfied by these alternatives, so there isn't a push to get stores to allow walking naked on their property. It's too early to say, but if demand is high enough above supply and there isn't some chain that starts advertising their Confederate flags, popular pressure will rise. This is why NASCAR, also a private organization, is condemning the flag but not outright banning it (at least for now), since they have a lot of people in their fanbase that fly it. Life is hard, get a helmet. 5 black churches were burned in South Carolina, so people have bigger shit to worry about than people who want to express their love of "states rights" have to wait a week for shipping of their flag. On July 01 2015 06:10 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 06:05 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 06:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2015 05:50 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:21 GreenHorizons wrote:
I think it's stupid to talk about banning it since that's not what people are asking for. From OP:
Apple is removing from the App Store any games or other software featuring the Confederate Flag. This, of course, follows the recent shooting in South Carolina, which triggered a nationwide debate over whether the flag should be flown at government buildings (or anywhere).
I think that last part implies banning. That's called opinion. Apple of of the opinion that the flag is a worthless racist rag that isn't fit to mop of dog poo. Other people have the same opinion. That doesn't mean a law is going to be passed, just people expressing how they feel on the subject. Sorry if that scares you, but that's what freedom of expression is all about. Some people have the opinion it should be banned. Some people are asking for it, which is exactly the opposite of what GreenHorizons said. I don't have any problem with this opinion, and I even respect the right of people who whole this opinion, I just disagree with it. I even agree with you on the fact that it shouldn't be flying in Charleston. But if someone in Charleston wants to hang one on their own house, I support their decision. Apple can express their opinion all they want, and I also can express mine criticizing theirs. That's why I love freedom of expression. And the awesome thing about the free market is people can vote with their money where they want. Personally I don't use the Apple Store, so regarding the Apple ban itself, I don't have a horse in this race. But just like them, and just like you, I can express how I feel on this subject and the surrounding debate. Some people are asking for a condo on Mars. People asking for something isn't the bar for it to be treated with any credibility. There is no credible efforts to ban the flag, it's just a stupid thing to talk about. A way to distract from the actual issues. On July 01 2015 05:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
As if anyone who wants one of the flags can't still easily find one? It's not like China gives a shit about whether it is offensive or not.
People are just being outright stupid about this. oBlade pretty much hit the nail on the head, but there's a lot of towns where your only alternative to Walmart for some of the goods it sells is dozens of miles away, if not more. And a lot of that open space is in formerly Confederate areas where people like that kind of merchandise. Sure on paper you could find one, but unless you sail to China or break into a warehouse, it's not going to be easy for people in those areas. Boooohoooo, people can't buy their racist flags on their weekly trip to Walmart, whatever will they do. They might have to special order one using the internet, the place where you can order a full body cat suit or replica of the gun from Blade Runner. The suffering and inconvenience. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/24/amazon-bans-confederate-flags-still-sells-nazi-merchandise/http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/confederate-flag-walmart-south-carolina/Sales of three versions of the flag were up 1,670% to 2,305% over a period of 24 hours, according to Amazon data. One of those flags, priced at $1.80 plus shipping, is currently the ninth best-selling item in the Patio, Lawn & Garden department and the top-selling item among all outdoor flags and banners sold on Amazon. I kinda wish I had some flags to sell. Sounds like people are getting what they want before they stop carrying it. I hear sales of Disney movies got up when are put into the vault too. It is absolutely pathetic that the Flag is what got all the attention from TL and actually inspired a noted member to post about it. If it weren't for the people trying to speak sense to those who are clearly clueless I'd just lose all hope for TL.
You can make a thread about whatever you want, too, but my guess is most TLers would be pretty well on one side when it comes to arson and murder, which is why a thread about something like this, a dangerous flag, might be more interesting, because it's not a cut and dry issue.
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On July 01 2015 06:33 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2015 05:55 oBlade wrote:On July 01 2015 05:24 heliusx wrote:On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
Nothing has been or will be banned so... On July 01 2015 05:24 Plansix wrote:
People don't seem to understand the concept of willingly disassociating with a racist symbol and just assume its banning because "people are offended blah blah blah more dismissive crap" You might be confusing the fact that these are companies, and not an arm of government, with the question of whether it's a ban (which it is). If your account gets suspended from battle.net, it's a ban, not a "willing dissociation." If I kick smokers out of my store, then I've banned smoking from that store. If I create a hundreds of dollars piece of technology that fits in your pocket, and that grants exclusive access to the only shopping mall available exclusively for the millions of people who bought that technology, and then in one corner of the probably hundreds of square kilometers shopping mall, there's a couple of people selling things with a certain arrangement of colors and shapes on them, and I shut down whatever they're doing, that's commonly understood to be "banning" which is why you see the OP and its links all say that these places have banned the flag or the symbol. As if anyone who wants one of the flags can't still easily find one? It's not like China gives a shit about whether it is offensive or not. People are just being outright stupid about this. Then what was the point of banning the symbol to begin with...? In my experience there aren't sites with more traffic, or that are easier and faster to trade on, than Amazon or eBay. Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:59 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:55 oBlade wrote:On July 01 2015 05:24 heliusx wrote:On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
Nothing has been or will be banned so... On July 01 2015 05:24 Plansix wrote:
People don't seem to understand the concept of willingly disassociating with a racist symbol and just assume its banning because "people are offended blah blah blah more dismissive crap" You might be confusing the fact that these are companies, and not an arm of government, with the question of whether it's a ban (which it is). If your account gets suspended from battle.net, it's a ban, not a "willing dissociation." If I kick smokers out of my store, then I've banned smoking from that store. If I create a hundreds of dollars piece of technology that fits in your pocket, and that grants exclusive access to the only shopping mall available exclusively for the millions of people who bought that technology, and then in one corner of the probably hundreds of square kilometers shopping mall, there's a couple of people selling things with a certain arrangement of colors and shapes on them, and I shut down whatever they're doing, that's commonly understood to be "banning" which is why you see the OP and its links all say that these places have banned the flag or the symbol. My ability walk naked through the mall is also banned. When will the oppression of private entities making decisions for themselves end. Unless you are for the government forcing these companies to carry the flag, which would be weird. The mall is an allegory for the App Store if you didn't get that. The government actually discourages indecent exposure, so your example - whatever your point was - is disanalogous. This is a question that's in the public interest. My saying these companies are wrong doesn't mean whatever straw you think it means. Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
If I may elaborate on SoSexy's point, I don't need Amazon.com to protect me from things I think are offensive, because chances are I'm not browsing those things, and I can still recognize that someone else might be interested in those things. Just like I don't need Amazon.com to protect me from things other people are offensive, because I might be interested in those things. I'm not a fan of A Serbian Film but I'm not writing letters about it. People can try to list their stuff elsewhere after these companies (abruptly) cut them off, but I'd also like to see a lawsuit. Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 06:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2015 06:12 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 06:07 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:59 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:55 oBlade wrote:On July 01 2015 05:24 heliusx wrote:On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
Nothing has been or will be banned so... On July 01 2015 05:24 Plansix wrote:
People don't seem to understand the concept of willingly disassociating with a racist symbol and just assume its banning because "people are offended blah blah blah more dismissive crap" You might be confusing the fact that these are companies, and not an arm of government, with the question of whether it's a ban (which it is). If your account gets suspended from battle.net, it's a ban, not a "willing dissociation." If I kick smokers out of my store, then I've banned smoking from that store. If I create a hundreds of dollars piece of technology that fits in your pocket, and that grants exclusive access to the only shopping mall available exclusively for the millions of people who bought that technology, and then in one corner of the probably hundreds of square kilometers shopping mall, there's a couple of people selling things with a certain arrangement of colors and shapes on them, and I shut down whatever they're doing, that's commonly understood to be "banning" which is why you see the OP and its links all say that these places have banned the flag or the symbol. My ability walk naked through the mall is also banned. When will the oppression of private entities making decisions for themselves end. Unless you are for the government forcing these companies to carry the flag, which would be weird. The difference is, you can go walk naked in your house, or in the woods, or you could lobby your government to make it legal to walk naked in the street if it already isn't. People are satisfied by these alternatives, so there isn't a push to get stores to allow walking naked on their property. It's too early to say, but if demand is high enough above supply and there isn't some chain that starts advertising their Confederate flags, popular pressure will rise. This is why NASCAR, also a private organization, is condemning the flag but not outright banning it (at least for now), since they have a lot of people in their fanbase that fly it. Life is hard, get a helmet. 5 black churches were burned in South Carolina, so people have bigger shit to worry about than people who want to express their love of "states rights" have to wait a week for shipping of their flag. On July 01 2015 06:10 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 06:05 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 06:02 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On July 01 2015 05:50 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:On July 01 2015 05:30 Plansix wrote:On July 01 2015 05:26 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
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From OP:
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I think that last part implies banning. That's called opinion. Apple of of the opinion that the flag is a worthless racist rag that isn't fit to mop of dog poo. Other people have the same opinion. That doesn't mean a law is going to be passed, just people expressing how they feel on the subject. Sorry if that scares you, but that's what freedom of expression is all about. Some people have the opinion it should be banned. Some people are asking for it, which is exactly the opposite of what GreenHorizons said. I don't have any problem with this opinion, and I even respect the right of people who whole this opinion, I just disagree with it. I even agree with you on the fact that it shouldn't be flying in Charleston. But if someone in Charleston wants to hang one on their own house, I support their decision. Apple can express their opinion all they want, and I also can express mine criticizing theirs. That's why I love freedom of expression. And the awesome thing about the free market is people can vote with their money where they want. Personally I don't use the Apple Store, so regarding the Apple ban itself, I don't have a horse in this race. But just like them, and just like you, I can express how I feel on this subject and the surrounding debate. Some people are asking for a condo on Mars. People asking for something isn't the bar for it to be treated with any credibility. There is no credible efforts to ban the flag, it's just a stupid thing to talk about. A way to distract from the actual issues. On July 01 2015 05:58 GreenHorizons wrote:
As if anyone who wants one of the flags can't still easily find one? It's not like China gives a shit about whether it is offensive or not.
People are just being outright stupid about this. oBlade pretty much hit the nail on the head, but there's a lot of towns where your only alternative to Walmart for some of the goods it sells is dozens of miles away, if not more. And a lot of that open space is in formerly Confederate areas where people like that kind of merchandise. Sure on paper you could find one, but unless you sail to China or break into a warehouse, it's not going to be easy for people in those areas. Boooohoooo, people can't buy their racist flags on their weekly trip to Walmart, whatever will they do. They might have to special order one using the internet, the place where you can order a full body cat suit or replica of the gun from Blade Runner. The suffering and inconvenience. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/06/24/amazon-bans-confederate-flags-still-sells-nazi-merchandise/http://www.cnn.com/2015/06/22/politics/confederate-flag-walmart-south-carolina/Sales of three versions of the flag were up 1,670% to 2,305% over a period of 24 hours, according to Amazon data. One of those flags, priced at $1.80 plus shipping, is currently the ninth best-selling item in the Patio, Lawn & Garden department and the top-selling item among all outdoor flags and banners sold on Amazon. I kinda wish I had some flags to sell. Sounds like people are getting what they want before they stop carrying it. I hear sales of Disney movies got up when are put into the vault too. It is absolutely pathetic that the Flag is what got all the attention from TL and actually inspired a noted member to post about it. If it weren't for the people trying to speak sense to those who are clearly clueless I'd just lose all hope for TL. You can make a thread about whatever you want, too, but my guess is most TLers would be pretty well on one side when it comes to arson and murder, which is why a thread about something like this, a dangerous flag, might be more interesting, because it's not a cut and dry issue.
Bro go back to conservative school, companies are never wrong.
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