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On July 01 2015 01:02 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 00:55 arb wrote:On July 01 2015 00:53 Djzapz wrote:On July 01 2015 00:49 arb wrote:On June 30 2015 22:45 Djzapz wrote:On June 30 2015 12:48 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Of course, what I see and experience in Canada is mostly irrelevant, but there are plenty of ways to get exposed to a Confederate flag without any racial connotations at all. In a museum is the only one I can think. If you fly the flag outside of a public building, especially in the south, it's absolutely unavoidable, the racial connotation is there and it's real. To say it isn't is willful ignorance. If you are in Canada i don't know how you can speak on the meaning of the flag here in the south to be honest. See them flown pretty much everywhere here and people don't think shit about it, friend has a giant one in his house and is pretty known for that and regardless no colored people(dont want to just say blacks) say or give a shit. Very few of the black people i know actually give a fuck about the flag being up down or anything like that, and the few that do preach that black rights are still violated blah blah blah, when even here in a lot of cases people feel they have it better than most lower class whites honestly. Gov't assistance comes to them a lot easier than it does to whites who are in worse shape and it is ridiculous sometimes honestly. But you know what they say, If the south woulda won we'da had it made after all. I understand that I can't really completely grasp the day-to-day meaning of the flag in the south, but then again most important of your post, to my eye, is: See them flown pretty much everywhere here and people don't think shit about itPeople don't think about it, arb. Because it's hard. Except what might happen if people started to think about it in the south, even though thinking is hard? Now you might see things that you didn't see before. By don't think about it i mean don't give a fuck. Like i said when i re-read my statement the ones who are up in arms about it are the same ones who think like hardcore feminists do. Granted honestly i don't really care if its up or not, i feel like it is so ingrained in southern culture and is such a norm its pretty dumb to expect people not to be outraged over it. I'm not so much outraged as I'm weirded out by it. Like, think about what it looks like to the rest of the world which already mocks Southern culture without really understanding it. I'm kind of one of them right, where when Alabama passes one of its insane nonsense insanely racist laws, I link the article to a friend and we laugh about it. "Haha, the American south". All fun and games. Then we heard (and we frankly didn't know this), that some of those States themselves, not just rednecks, fly those flags. We're pretty amazed, frankly - and admittedly like I said we're largely ignorant of the southern culture. So we get to thinking, why would States fly that flag, when it embodies so much venom and filth? So from reading around the only real defense it has is, it's part of our culture now. So what? I mean the only thing I can think of is that it's a really fucking stupid thing to have as part of your culture. A defeated insurrection type thing that defended ridiculous ideals... I understand that the south's thing is it don't care whut the rest of the world think bout you... but hell, that is weak defense. People ain't think about it. Please think about it. I mean, flags are inherently symbolic ffs -_-.
would you like it if i took your waffles and hockey away? What about maple syrup?
nope. didnt think so.
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On July 01 2015 01:04 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 01:02 Djzapz wrote:On July 01 2015 00:55 arb wrote:On July 01 2015 00:53 Djzapz wrote:On July 01 2015 00:49 arb wrote:On June 30 2015 22:45 Djzapz wrote:On June 30 2015 12:48 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Of course, what I see and experience in Canada is mostly irrelevant, but there are plenty of ways to get exposed to a Confederate flag without any racial connotations at all. In a museum is the only one I can think. If you fly the flag outside of a public building, especially in the south, it's absolutely unavoidable, the racial connotation is there and it's real. To say it isn't is willful ignorance. If you are in Canada i don't know how you can speak on the meaning of the flag here in the south to be honest. See them flown pretty much everywhere here and people don't think shit about it, friend has a giant one in his house and is pretty known for that and regardless no colored people(dont want to just say blacks) say or give a shit. Very few of the black people i know actually give a fuck about the flag being up down or anything like that, and the few that do preach that black rights are still violated blah blah blah, when even here in a lot of cases people feel they have it better than most lower class whites honestly. Gov't assistance comes to them a lot easier than it does to whites who are in worse shape and it is ridiculous sometimes honestly. But you know what they say, If the south woulda won we'da had it made after all. I understand that I can't really completely grasp the day-to-day meaning of the flag in the south, but then again most important of your post, to my eye, is: See them flown pretty much everywhere here and people don't think shit about itPeople don't think about it, arb. Because it's hard. Except what might happen if people started to think about it in the south, even though thinking is hard? Now you might see things that you didn't see before. By don't think about it i mean don't give a fuck. Like i said when i re-read my statement the ones who are up in arms about it are the same ones who think like hardcore feminists do. Granted honestly i don't really care if its up or not, i feel like it is so ingrained in southern culture and is such a norm its pretty dumb to expect people not to be outraged over it. I'm not so much outraged as I'm weirded out by it. Like, think about what it looks like to the rest of the world which already mocks Southern culture without really understanding it. I'm kind of one of them right, where when Alabama passes one of its insane nonsense insanely racist laws, I link the article to a friend and we laugh about it. "Haha, the American south". All fun and games. Then we heard (and we frankly didn't know this), that some of those States themselves, not just rednecks, fly those flags. We're pretty amazed, frankly - and admittedly like I said we're largely ignorant of the southern culture. So we get to thinking, why would States fly that flag, when it embodies so much venom and filth? So from reading around the only real defense it has is, it's part of our culture now. So what? I mean the only thing I can think of is that it's a really fucking stupid thing to have as part of your culture. A defeated insurrection type thing that defended ridiculous ideals... I understand that the south's thing is it don't care whut the rest of the world think bout you... but hell, that is weak defense. People ain't think about it. Please think about it. I mean, flags are inherently symbolic ffs -_-. would you like it if i took your waffles and hockey away? What about maple syrup? nope. didnt think so.
Slavery being lumped together with foodstuff and entertaining sports. 10/10
That being said, I don't think we should take away your symbol of a failed insurrection and attempt to continue enslaving people based on the color of your their skin! I was mostly saying that the culture of the south would be perhaps a little be more respectable if it bothered to think about the implication of the symbols it used to represent itself 
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On July 01 2015 01:02 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 00:55 arb wrote:On July 01 2015 00:53 Djzapz wrote:On July 01 2015 00:49 arb wrote:On June 30 2015 22:45 Djzapz wrote:On June 30 2015 12:48 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Of course, what I see and experience in Canada is mostly irrelevant, but there are plenty of ways to get exposed to a Confederate flag without any racial connotations at all. In a museum is the only one I can think. If you fly the flag outside of a public building, especially in the south, it's absolutely unavoidable, the racial connotation is there and it's real. To say it isn't is willful ignorance. If you are in Canada i don't know how you can speak on the meaning of the flag here in the south to be honest. See them flown pretty much everywhere here and people don't think shit about it, friend has a giant one in his house and is pretty known for that and regardless no colored people(dont want to just say blacks) say or give a shit. Very few of the black people i know actually give a fuck about the flag being up down or anything like that, and the few that do preach that black rights are still violated blah blah blah, when even here in a lot of cases people feel they have it better than most lower class whites honestly. Gov't assistance comes to them a lot easier than it does to whites who are in worse shape and it is ridiculous sometimes honestly. But you know what they say, If the south woulda won we'da had it made after all. I understand that I can't really completely grasp the day-to-day meaning of the flag in the south, but then again most important of your post, to my eye, is: See them flown pretty much everywhere here and people don't think shit about itPeople don't think about it, arb. Because it's hard. Except what might happen if people started to think about it in the south, even though thinking is hard? Now you might see things that you didn't see before. By don't think about it i mean don't give a fuck. Like i said when i re-read my statement the ones who are up in arms about it are the same ones who think like hardcore feminists do. Granted honestly i don't really care if its up or not, i feel like it is so ingrained in southern culture and is such a norm its pretty dumb to expect people not to be outraged over it. I'm not so much outraged as I'm weirded out by it. Like, think about what it looks like to the rest of the world which already mocks Southern culture without really understanding it. I'm kind of one of them right, where when Alabama passes one of its insane nonsense insanely racist laws, I link the article to a friend and we laugh about it. "Haha, the American south". All fun and games. Then we heard (and we frankly didn't know this), that some of those States themselves, not just rednecks, fly those flags. We're pretty amazed, frankly - and admittedly like I said we're largely ignorant of the southern culture. So we get to thinking, why would States fly that flag, when it embodies so much venom and filth? So from reading around the only real defense it has is, it's part of our culture now. So what? I mean the only thing I can think of is that it's a really fucking stupid thing to have as part of your culture. A defeated insurrection type thing that defended ridiculous ideals... I understand that the south's thing is it don't care whut the rest of the world think bout you... but hell, that is weak defense. People ain't think about it. Please think about it. I mean, flags are inherently symbolic ffs -_-.
Imo the average person in the northern states don't think to highly of the average person in the southern ones. Its not uncommon to hear jokes that mock the south. Still racists are everywhere and while it is much rarer to see the confederate flag in most places in the North you do still see it on occasion. Hell I remember when I was a kid in Michigan just outside of Detroit one of our neighbors had a big flag plastered on the side of his house. I heard some comments about it being about them asserting their "southern identity" or w/e but it was strange to me at the time and now it just seems sad.
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I think it's important to note that the civil war was pretty much just fought over money. The north was pissed because the south was getting rich off slave labor and they were buying from the Europeans instead of the north which hurt the north's industrialization and manufacturing. Only reason it's important to note is because I think a lot of people in America have this colored view of history that the union was fighting against the evil institution of slavery when in reality they had their own selfish goals in mind (just like the south did) and very few people actually gave a shit that African Americans were being enslaved (except for, y'know, actual abolitionists).
With that said I don't think it's crazy that minorities (especially black people) are offended by the flag and I don't think it's crazy that businesses feel like it makes more business sense to remove the Confederate flag from their stores. I also think it's stupid that a southern state would display a Confederate flag for so long. I'm not really arguing that retailers or states shouldn't have the right to display a Confederate flag because I don't think that's even up for debate. But if I was the governor of South Carolina or a CEO at a major retailer I'd sure as hell remove the flag because it's in the best business interest of my state/company. At the end of the day it's all about money anyway just like the actual civil war.
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On July 01 2015 01:23 overt wrote:
I think it's important to note that the civil war was pretty much just fought over money. The north was pissed because the south was getting rich off slave labor and they were buying from the Europeans instead of the north which hurt the north's industrialization and manufacturing. Only reason it's important to note is because I think a lot of people in America have this colored view of history that the union was fighting against the evil institution of slavery when in reality they had their own selfish goals in mind (just like the south did) and very few people actually gave a shit that African Americans were being enslaved (except for, y'know, actual abolitionists).
With that said I don't think it's crazy that minorities (especially black people) are offended by the flag and I don't think it's crazy that businesses feel like it makes more business sense to remove the Confederate flag from their stores. I also think it's stupid that a southern state would display a Confederate flag for so long. I'm not really arguing that retailers or states shouldn't have the right to display a Confederate flag because I don't think that's even up for debate. But if I was the governor of South Carolina or a CEO at a major retailer I'd sure as hell remove the flag because it's in the best business interest of my state/company. At the end of the day it's all about money anyway just like the actual civil war.
Wasn't the north much richer than the south?
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On July 01 2015 02:06 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 01:23 overt wrote:
I think it's important to note that the civil war was pretty much just fought over money. The north was pissed because the south was getting rich off slave labor and they were buying from the Europeans instead of the north which hurt the north's industrialization and manufacturing. Only reason it's important to note is because I think a lot of people in America have this colored view of history that the union was fighting against the evil institution of slavery when in reality they had their own selfish goals in mind (just like the south did) and very few people actually gave a shit that African Americans were being enslaved (except for, y'know, actual abolitionists).
With that said I don't think it's crazy that minorities (especially black people) are offended by the flag and I don't think it's crazy that businesses feel like it makes more business sense to remove the Confederate flag from their stores. I also think it's stupid that a southern state would display a Confederate flag for so long. I'm not really arguing that retailers or states shouldn't have the right to display a Confederate flag because I don't think that's even up for debate. But if I was the governor of South Carolina or a CEO at a major retailer I'd sure as hell remove the flag because it's in the best business interest of my state/company. At the end of the day it's all about money anyway just like the actual civil war. Wasn't the north much richer than the south?
It had better industry(aka, it had industry) and a better ability to produce more weapons. Once the north's war machine got going, it outpaced the Souths by a large degree. Also trains played a factor.
But there are books upon books one why the North won and the reasons are more nuanced than that. Just like the Germans didn't lose WW2 just because Russia was cold.
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On July 01 2015 02:13 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 02:06 Djzapz wrote:On July 01 2015 01:23 overt wrote:
I think it's important to note that the civil war was pretty much just fought over money. The north was pissed because the south was getting rich off slave labor and they were buying from the Europeans instead of the north which hurt the north's industrialization and manufacturing. Only reason it's important to note is because I think a lot of people in America have this colored view of history that the union was fighting against the evil institution of slavery when in reality they had their own selfish goals in mind (just like the south did) and very few people actually gave a shit that African Americans were being enslaved (except for, y'know, actual abolitionists).
With that said I don't think it's crazy that minorities (especially black people) are offended by the flag and I don't think it's crazy that businesses feel like it makes more business sense to remove the Confederate flag from their stores. I also think it's stupid that a southern state would display a Confederate flag for so long. I'm not really arguing that retailers or states shouldn't have the right to display a Confederate flag because I don't think that's even up for debate. But if I was the governor of South Carolina or a CEO at a major retailer I'd sure as hell remove the flag because it's in the best business interest of my state/company. At the end of the day it's all about money anyway just like the actual civil war. Wasn't the north much richer than the south? It had better industry(aka, it had industry) and a better ability to produce more weapons. Once the north's war machine got going, it outpaced the Souths by a large degree. Also trains played a factor. But there are books upon books one why the North won and the reasons are more nuanced than that. Just like the Germans didn't lose WW2 just because Russia was cold.
And WW1 didn't start just because of the assassination of Franz Ferdinand. History is too often badly oversimplified.
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I'm not even sure ANY of the history I learned in my elementary/highschool/college classes were ever relevant. All of it was just a spew of North American/US propaganda >.>. Because there is so much history I suppose. You can spend your entire lifetime just researching/reading about the history of one place at a certain time, and it would keep you busy.
I don't really have an opinion on this whole flag matter, simply because I feel it's outside my domain of experience to argue about.
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On July 01 2015 03:23 Reaper9 wrote:
I'm not even sure ANY of the history I learned in my elementary/highschool/college classes were ever relevant. All of it was just a spew of North American/US propaganda >.>. Because there is so much history I suppose. You can spend your entire lifetime just researching/reading about the history of one place at a certain time, and it would keep you busy.
I don't really have an opinion on this whole flag matter, simply because I feel it's outside my domain of experience to argue about.
Thanks for checking in?
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Personally I believe symbols mean what people want them to mean. The gays used the pink triangle that originally labeled them as sexual deviants in Nazi concentration camps as a symbol of gay pride. If a bunch of people start flying the Confederate flag and saying it means southern pride, and there's enough of them, they're not wrong. Of course for the people who don't believe that, they're not wrong either, because the symbol means something completely different there. But we don't have many people left who believe gays should wear a symbol for public identification.
As for the issue itself, my only opposition to the flag is that flying a symbol of sedition above public or government property isn't right. Other than that, it doesn't really matter. My neighbor can keep a swastika flag or a Confederate flag or an ISIS flag in his house, and as long as he isn't bothering me, more power to him; it's his right. If I want to buy apps or shirts or flags with Confederate symbols, I should have that right, whether I'm just a fan of Civil War history, or I like the south, or I actually want slavery to be reinstated. And the flip side is that if I wear a shirt with a Confederate flag on the street, people have the right to call me a racist if that's how they interpret the message.
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On July 01 2015 03:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Personally I believe symbols mean what people want them to mean. The gays used the pink triangle that originally labeled them as sexual deviants in Nazi concentration camps as a symbol of gay pride. If a bunch of people start flying the Confederate flag and saying it means southern pride, and there's enough of them, they're not wrong. Of course for the people who don't believe that, they're not wrong either, because the symbol means something completely different there. But we don't have many people left who believe gays should wear a symbol for public identification.
As for the issue itself, my only opposition to the flag is that flying a symbol of sedition above public or government property isn't right. Other than that, it doesn't really matter. My neighbor can keep a swastika flag or a Confederate flag or an ISIS flag in his house, and as long as he isn't bothering me, more power to him; it's his right. If I want to buy apps or shirts or flags with Confederate symbols, I should have that right, whether I'm just a fan of Civil War history, or I like the south, or I actually want slavery to be reinstated. And the flip side is that if I wear a shirt with a Confederate flag on the street, people have the right to call me a racist if that's how they interpret the message.
I would think that openly voicing your desire to have certain people enslaved would qualify as some sort of hate speech... As much as I'm in favor of freedom of expression, it seems like using that freedom of expression to remove the freedom of others is just abusive as fuck and it's essentially a caricature of the concept of freedom.
I mean isn't a big argument for freedom of expression that if you were a minority opinion you would want to be able to voice it. Yet there's a conflict when your opinion is that certain other opinions must be silenced and certain people don't deserve to have it because genetics or something.
I'm not saying that you should definitely ban the Swastika, the ISIS flag and the Confederate flag, but the first two are pretty much systematically used in ways which are heinous as fuck and are essentially incompatible with freedom of speech in the first place.
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On July 01 2015 03:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Personally I believe symbols mean what people want them to mean. The gays used the pink triangle that originally labeled them as sexual deviants in Nazi concentration camps as a symbol of gay pride. If a bunch of people start flying the Confederate flag and saying it means southern pride, and there's enough of them, they're not wrong. Of course for the people who don't believe that, they're not wrong either, because the symbol means something completely different there. But we don't have many people left who believe gays should wear a symbol for public identification.
As for the issue itself, my only opposition to the flag is that flying a symbol of sedition above public or government property isn't right. Other than that, it doesn't really matter. My neighbor can keep a swastika flag or a Confederate flag or an ISIS flag in his house, and as long as he isn't bothering me, more power to him; it's his right. If I want to buy apps or shirts or flags with Confederate symbols, I should have that right, whether I'm just a fan of Civil War history, or I like the south, or I actually want slavery to be reinstated. And the flip side is that if I wear a shirt with a Confederate flag on the street, people have the right to call me a racist if that's how they interpret the message.
Nah, southerners claiming the Confederate flag is a symbol of southern pride are wrong now matter how many of them there are. It is a symbol of hate, subjugation and intimidation. It is an evil vile symbol. Southerners are just as wrong claiming it is about cultural pride than Germans would be if they claimed the swastika is a symbol of German pride. The thing is Germany came to terms with their history, the south still has not.
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There is a bust of Nathan Bedford Forrest in the Tennessee statehouse. The South is in fucking denial.
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On July 01 2015 04:00 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 03:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Personally I believe symbols mean what people want them to mean. The gays used the pink triangle that originally labeled them as sexual deviants in Nazi concentration camps as a symbol of gay pride. If a bunch of people start flying the Confederate flag and saying it means southern pride, and there's enough of them, they're not wrong. Of course for the people who don't believe that, they're not wrong either, because the symbol means something completely different there. But we don't have many people left who believe gays should wear a symbol for public identification.
As for the issue itself, my only opposition to the flag is that flying a symbol of sedition above public or government property isn't right. Other than that, it doesn't really matter. My neighbor can keep a swastika flag or a Confederate flag or an ISIS flag in his house, and as long as he isn't bothering me, more power to him; it's his right. If I want to buy apps or shirts or flags with Confederate symbols, I should have that right, whether I'm just a fan of Civil War history, or I like the south, or I actually want slavery to be reinstated. And the flip side is that if I wear a shirt with a Confederate flag on the street, people have the right to call me a racist if that's how they interpret the message. I would think that openly voicing your desire to have certain people enslaved would qualify as some sort of hate speech... As much as I'm in favor of freedom of expression, it seems like using that freedom of expression to remove the freedom of others is just abusive as fuck and it's essentially a caricature of the concept of freedom. I mean isn't a big argument for freedom of expression that if you were a minority opinion you would want to be able to voice it. Yet there's a conflict when your opinion is that certain other opinions must be silenced and certain people don't deserve to have it because genetics or something.
I don't see the problem with hate speech in itself as long as it doesn't escalate into action. Both the klansman who wants to stop the 'browning' of America and the professor who wants to exterminate white people have the right to say what they want, assuming they're not on private property where the owner decides otherwise, etc. I don't agree at all with either of these viewpoints, but as long as the klansman doesn't start vandalizing non-white properties or the professor doesn't start putting his extermination plan into action, I don't have a problem with what they're saying. But again, that's not to say their opinions shouldn't be criticized or ridiculed.
And the belief that certain beliefs must be silenced also falls under that belief, as long as those latter beliefs aren't actually being silenced.
I'm not saying that you should definitely ban the Swastika, the ISIS flag and the Confederate flag, but the first two are pretty much systematically used in ways which are heinous as fuck and are essentially incompatible with freedom of speech in the first place.
The flip side of the coin is how in Germany you can't use the swastika in video games. You can have other contexts that blur the line between history and something else (like the Stars and Bars Confederate flag being one of the "Six Flags" in the original amusement park in Texas)
The other issue is that just as neo-Nazis start using other symbols instead of the Swastika, like the flag of the Second Reich as a legal substitute for the Third, actual racists in the US who fly the Confederate flag for that reason could just use the Stars and Bars, or maybe the state flag of Mississippi, which has a Confederate flag on it.
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On July 01 2015 04:15 rararock wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 03:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Personally I believe symbols mean what people want them to mean. The gays used the pink triangle that originally labeled them as sexual deviants in Nazi concentration camps as a symbol of gay pride. If a bunch of people start flying the Confederate flag and saying it means southern pride, and there's enough of them, they're not wrong. Of course for the people who don't believe that, they're not wrong either, because the symbol means something completely different there. But we don't have many people left who believe gays should wear a symbol for public identification.
As for the issue itself, my only opposition to the flag is that flying a symbol of sedition above public or government property isn't right. Other than that, it doesn't really matter. My neighbor can keep a swastika flag or a Confederate flag or an ISIS flag in his house, and as long as he isn't bothering me, more power to him; it's his right. If I want to buy apps or shirts or flags with Confederate symbols, I should have that right, whether I'm just a fan of Civil War history, or I like the south, or I actually want slavery to be reinstated. And the flip side is that if I wear a shirt with a Confederate flag on the street, people have the right to call me a racist if that's how they interpret the message. Nah, southerners claiming the Confederate flag is a symbol of southern pride are wrong now matter how many of them there are. It is a symbol of hate, subjugation and intimidation. It is an evil vile symbol. Southerners are just as wrong claiming it is about cultural pride than Germans would be if they claimed the swastika is a symbol of German pride. The thing is Germany came to terms with their history, the south still has not.
So are gays masochists for adopting their concentration camp symbol into one of pride?
Granted, it's sometimes inverted, but not always:
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 01 2015 04:59 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2015 04:15 rararock wrote:On July 01 2015 03:33 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
Personally I believe symbols mean what people want them to mean. The gays used the pink triangle that originally labeled them as sexual deviants in Nazi concentration camps as a symbol of gay pride. If a bunch of people start flying the Confederate flag and saying it means southern pride, and there's enough of them, they're not wrong. Of course for the people who don't believe that, they're not wrong either, because the symbol means something completely different there. But we don't have many people left who believe gays should wear a symbol for public identification.
As for the issue itself, my only opposition to the flag is that flying a symbol of sedition above public or government property isn't right. Other than that, it doesn't really matter. My neighbor can keep a swastika flag or a Confederate flag or an ISIS flag in his house, and as long as he isn't bothering me, more power to him; it's his right. If I want to buy apps or shirts or flags with Confederate symbols, I should have that right, whether I'm just a fan of Civil War history, or I like the south, or I actually want slavery to be reinstated. And the flip side is that if I wear a shirt with a Confederate flag on the street, people have the right to call me a racist if that's how they interpret the message. Nah, southerners claiming the Confederate flag is a symbol of southern pride are wrong now matter how many of them there are. It is a symbol of hate, subjugation and intimidation. It is an evil vile symbol. Southerners are just as wrong claiming it is about cultural pride than Germans would be if they claimed the swastika is a symbol of German pride. The thing is Germany came to terms with their history, the south still has not. So are gays masochists for adopting their concentration camp symbol into one of pride? Granted, it's sometimes inverted, but not always: + Show Spoiler +
I really don't feel we need to explain that they picked the symbol themselves, while the people trying to oppress black Americans picked the Confederate flag.
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I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
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I think it's stupid to talk about banning it since that's not what people are asking for.
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On July 01 2015 05:19 SoSexy wrote:
I think it is a really stupid decision. You can't ban a symbol for what it represents, because you would have to literally ban everything.
Nothing has been or will be banned so...
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People don't seem to understand the concept of willingly disassociating with a racist symbol and just assume its banning because "people are offended blah blah blah more dismissive crap"
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EPT![[image loading]](https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/57/175363907_0e174d3ca9_z.jpg?zz=1)
