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Bisutopia19396 Posts
Major companies are choosing to ban content and/or remove merchandise that contain the confederate flag.
Google is removing results related to the Confederate Flag from Google Shopping, the company's online marketplace. They're also blocking advertisements involving the flag. They say, "We have determined that the Confederate flag violates our Ads policies, which don't allow content that's generally perceived as expressing hate toward a particular group."
Apple is removing from the App Store any games or other software featuring the Confederate Flag. This, of course, follows the recent shooting in South Carolina, which triggered a nationwide debate over whether the flag should be flown at government buildings (or anywhere).
Major online merchant websites like eBay and Amazon have already taken the step of banning merchandise relating to the flag.
I basically ranted on PC related issues in the spoiler below. You can read this and address if you like or just discuss the primary topic of the flag.
Edit: Spoilered this + Show Spoiler +I'm personally fed up with how PC the American society has become. For a nation that is supposed to be free, we are sure being hypocrites. People want to tear down monuments of generals who fought in the south because it is offensive to minorities. In Atlanta, Georgia a fireman was fired because he doesn't support homosexuality. ( Source ) Are we losing our minds in this nation or am I the age where I'm paying attention better and this has always been happening? Even Hilary Clinton has been accused of insulting minorities for saying "All lives matter" in her latest speech. Written news from Black Republican Herman Cain You're not allowed to say "all lives matter" because the left has established a mantra - with a hashtag, even, and nothing could make a mantra more official than that - of declaring that #blacklivesmatter. You have to say it right. You have to say it the way they want you to say it. No variations allowed. Professor Judith Butler of UC Berkeley explains why there can be no exceptions to the speech code: “When some people rejoin with ‘All Lives Matter’ they misunderstand the problem, but not because their message is untrue,” she wrote. “It is true that all lives matter, but it is equally true that not all lives are understood to matter which is precisely why it is most important to name the lives that have not mattered, and are struggling to matter in the way they deserve.” - See more at: http://www.hermancain.com/liberals-mad-at-hillary-for-sa#sthash.CDHCIia3.dpuf
So what's the deal here. Do you believe America is heading in the wrong direction or not?
source
http://news.slashdot.org/story/15/06/25/1631238/google-apple-and-others-remove-content-related-to-the-confederate-flag
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Well are we talking about the Confederate flag or all PC issues? Because they are different topics and rabbit holes to go down into.
My take is that people who claim the Confederate flag is nothing but a symbol of Southern pride and patriotism are either lying to themselves or everyone else. The battle flag wasn't even used very much by the Confederacy, and was only proudly put on display as a response to the civil rights movement in the 1960's, so claiming that flying it is some sort of tribute to your ancestors is laughable, unless those ancestors were racist. There is no excuse for it to be flying over government buildings or in public spaces, because it is the symbol of a nation that rebelled against the United States and lost. I cannot think of any country in the world that proudly displays symbols associated with a rebellious faction 150 years after that faction was put down.
However, it is a person's right to display this flag on their property, and if they want to do so they need to be able to get it somewhere. In the same vein, it is a business' right to carry Confederacy memorabilia, and they did so right up until it no longer benefit them from a financial and PR standpoint. I think the flag is fine on war monuments and in historical contexts, because removing it from those contexts is bordering on revisionist history and I'd rather not people forget the Civil War. But there is a fine line between showing and depicting Civil War imagery and endorsing the Confederacy. Fine enough that I think it is inappropriate to claim that war memorials or historical depictions of the flag are racist.
Also, Apple removing all Civil War games due to their depiction of the flag is ridiculous. US History is important, and the Confederacy is a part of our history whether we like it or not, just like slavery, the trail of tears, Japanese internment, and the atomic bomb. Games that simulate the Civil War or depict that part of US History should not be prohibited from depicting something as simple as a flag, unless that symbol is used in an active endorsement of slavery or racism.
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Bisutopia19396 Posts
On June 26 2015 04:09 ZasZ. wrote:
Well are we talking about the Confederate flag or all PC issues? Because they are different topics and rabbit holes to go down into.
My take is that people who claim the Confederate flag is nothing but a symbol of Southern pride and patriotism are either lying to themselves or everyone else. The battle flag wasn't even used very much by the Confederacy, and was only proudly put on display as a response to the civil rights movement in the 1960's, so claiming that flying it is some sort of tribute to your ancestors is laughable, unless those ancestors were racist. There is no excuse for it to be flying over government buildings or in public spaces, because it is the symbol of a nation that rebelled against the United States and lost. I cannot think of any country in the world that proudly displays symbols associated with a rebellious faction 150 years after that faction was put down.
However, it is a person's right to display this flag on their property, and if they want to do so they need to be able to get it somewhere. In the same vein, it is a business' right to carry Confederacy memorabilia, and they did so right up until it no longer benefit them from a financial and PR standpoint. I think the flag is fine on war monuments and in historical contexts, because removing it from those contexts is bordering on revisionist history and I'd rather not people forget the Civil War. But there is a fine line between showing and depicting Civil War imagery and endorsing the Confederacy. Fine enough that I think it is inappropriate to claim that war memorials or historical depictions of the flag are racist.
Also, Apple removing all Civil War games due to their depiction of the flag is ridiculous. US History is important, and the Confederacy is a part of our history whether we like it or not, just like slavery, the trail of tears, Japanese internment, and the atomic bomb. Games that simulate the Civil War or depict that part of US History should not be prohibited from depicting something as simple as a flag, unless that symbol is used in an active endorsement of slavery or racism.
I agree with this. Don't fly it above government buildings, but don't ban history. That is why I'm outraged. How are better then any other tyrannical nation if we bury our past?
edit: Spoilered my PC rant above to keep the topic to one subject.
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That's basically how I see it aswell.
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Just remember, the flag that we know as Confederate Flag is one of many flags used during that war. And it only became well known as the Confederate Flag during the 1950-60s along side the civil rights movement.
Also, after 9/11, TV shows pushed back episodes having to do with bombings and plane crashes. Radios changed their play lists. After most school shooting the same things happened. Its not like we don't listen to those songs any more those episodes were never shown. People will be able to buy these flags again, but maybe not at Walmart.
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your freedom ends where my feelings begin
- sincerely a political correct person
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2nd Worst City in CA8938 Posts
Companies are free to ban what they want from their stores if people are free to celebrate bigotry.
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I concur. Apple banning history based games from the app store because they depict the flag is insanity. These games don't seek to glorify anything, they're just trying to have some semblance of historical accuracy.
And banning a flag that symbolises racial hate whilst allowing Mein Kampf or the Qu'ran to be sold just doesn't make sense to me. At least the flag, unlike these books, doesn't actively incite hate and violence.
Now what I do agree with is banning the states from portraying it, of course.
User was warned for this post: please don't put Mein Kampf and the Qu'ran in the same category
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DUKES OF HAZZARD RERUNS... NOOOO!!1!1!!1!!!!
![[image loading]](http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51eMaJ-7SSL._SX940_.jpg)
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I agree with your overall feeling that we are becoming WAY too PC in most areas. People just seek things out to be offended by. Some people risk losing their jobs if they aren't PC enough - all it takes is a flood of "offended" people complaining on tweeter or fbook and tossing around a few hashtags.
PC has taken over for honesty/truth. When a spade is a spade, it should be called a spade.
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On June 26 2015 04:32 Souma wrote:
Companies are free to ban what they want from their stores if people are free to celebrate bigotry.
People sort of forget that one. I love how people worship the free market right up until the point where they don't get exactly what they want. Then its all the fault of PC people being offended and not controlling their feelings. Of course, the people who are complaining about the flag not being sold are also offended.
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On June 26 2015 04:35 SixStrings wrote:I concur. Apple banning history based games from the app store because they depict the flag is insanity. These games don't seek to glorify anything, they're just trying to have some semblance of historical accuracy. And banning a flag that symbolises racial hate whilst allowing Mein Kampf or the Qu'ran to be sold just doesn't make sense to me. At least the flag, unlike these books, doesn't actively incite hate and violence. Now what I do agree with is banning the states from portraying it, of course.
books can be studied and can actually add information even if the book is inflammatory. you can't learn anything from a flag.
personally the only problem I have with it is apple banning any games about the civil war. that seems a little ridiculous.
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Bisutopia19396 Posts
On June 26 2015 04:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2015 04:32 Souma wrote:
Companies are free to ban what they want from their stores if people are free to celebrate bigotry. People sort of forget that one. I love how people worship the free market right up until the point where they don't get exactly what they want. Then its all the fault of PC people being offended and not controlling their feelings. Of course, the people who are complaining about the flag not being sold are also offended.
That's not necessarily the case. Stores have a right to (not)sell what they want. The problem is that major retailers in this case are determining what's best for the people by controlling market availability for a particular item. If they had such hard feelings to the flag, then why were the selling it for the past 10, 20, 30+ years? Now in just a week all retailers decided to just wipe the merchandise for the sake of public appeal.
edit: To get deeper politically, retailers might have a lot less choice about what is put on there shelves if the TPP goes through. But that's another monster for another day that we the people don't get a choice on anyway.
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On June 26 2015 04:27 Plansix wrote:
Just remember, the flag that we know as Confederate Flag is one of many flags used during that war. And it only became well known as the Confederate Flag during the 1950-60s along side the civil rights movement.
Also, after 9/11, TV shows pushed back episodes having to do with bombings and plane crashes. Radios changed their play lists. After most school shooting the same things happened. Its not like we don't listen to those songs any more those episodes were never shown. People will be able to buy these flags again, but maybe not at Walmart.
The analogy with 9/11 is a little spotty. Popular culture refrained from terrorism/plane crash imagery after 9/11 out of sensitivity for that tragedy and probably also to prevent the inevitable PR backlash if they went ahead with it. The current outcry over the Confederate flag is only tangentially related to the Charleston shooting, this animosity towards the symbol has existed for a long ass time. I grew up in Virginia (not even the deep south) and currently live in Colorado. I have had to explain to people over the last week or so that there are many people that proudly fly the Confederate flag in the south and they are flabbergasted.
The sting of 9/11 dulled after a while and people were able to enjoy movies and songs about the attack or terrorism/plane crashes in general. It's been 50 years since the Confederate flag became a symbol of racism to many, and with the attention it has gotten recently I don't see that outrage going away any time soon. The "has it been enough time since shit went down" discussion doesn't work for the Confederate flag, I don't think.
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On June 26 2015 04:46 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2015 04:35 SixStrings wrote:I concur. Apple banning history based games from the app store because they depict the flag is insanity. These games don't seek to glorify anything, they're just trying to have some semblance of historical accuracy. And banning a flag that symbolises racial hate whilst allowing Mein Kampf or the Qu'ran to be sold just doesn't make sense to me. At least the flag, unlike these books, doesn't actively incite hate and violence. Now what I do agree with is banning the states from portraying it, of course. books can be studied and can actually add information even if the book is inflammatory. you can't learn anything from a flag. personally the only problem I have with it is apple banning any games about the civil war. that seems a little ridiculous.
There are like 20 different Confederate Flags they could use and a lot of them would be more historically accurate.
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On June 26 2015 04:47 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2015 04:41 Plansix wrote:On June 26 2015 04:32 Souma wrote:
Companies are free to ban what they want from their stores if people are free to celebrate bigotry. People sort of forget that one. I love how people worship the free market right up until the point where they don't get exactly what they want. Then its all the fault of PC people being offended and not controlling their feelings. Of course, the people who are complaining about the flag not being sold are also offended. That's not necessarily the case. Stores have a right to (not)sell what they want. The problem is that major retailers in this case are determining what's best for the people by controlling market availability for a particular item. If they had such hard feelings to the flag, then why were the selling it for the past 10, 20, 30+ years? Now in just a week all retailers decided to just wipe the merchandise for the sake of public appeal. edit: To get deeper politically, retailers might have a lot less choice about what is put on there shelves if the TPP goes through. But that's another monster for another day that we the people don't get a choice on anyway.
Public appeal is important. The shit storm surrounding the flag right now makes it toxic to sell, and Walmart et al can save face with many people by refusing to carry its likeness. You can call that catering to the PC crowd, but it is ultimately an act of the free market. These retailers have decided that the profits they make from Confederate flags are not worth the customers they may stand to lose by carrying Confederate flags.
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On June 26 2015 04:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2015 04:46 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On June 26 2015 04:35 SixStrings wrote:I concur. Apple banning history based games from the app store because they depict the flag is insanity. These games don't seek to glorify anything, they're just trying to have some semblance of historical accuracy. And banning a flag that symbolises racial hate whilst allowing Mein Kampf or the Qu'ran to be sold just doesn't make sense to me. At least the flag, unlike these books, doesn't actively incite hate and violence. Now what I do agree with is banning the states from portraying it, of course. books can be studied and can actually add information even if the book is inflammatory. you can't learn anything from a flag. personally the only problem I have with it is apple banning any games about the civil war. that seems a little ridiculous. There are like 20 different Confederate Flags they could use and a lot of them would be more historically accurate.
yeah but then people would probably get confused and complain that the flags didn't look right. I'm not saying they can't use a different flag just saying that using the flag to represent what it actually is generally agreed upon to represent (the confederacy in this case) shouldn't be a problem.
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On June 26 2015 04:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2015 04:46 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:On June 26 2015 04:35 SixStrings wrote:I concur. Apple banning history based games from the app store because they depict the flag is insanity. These games don't seek to glorify anything, they're just trying to have some semblance of historical accuracy. And banning a flag that symbolises racial hate whilst allowing Mein Kampf or the Qu'ran to be sold just doesn't make sense to me. At least the flag, unlike these books, doesn't actively incite hate and violence. Now what I do agree with is banning the states from portraying it, of course. books can be studied and can actually add information even if the book is inflammatory. you can't learn anything from a flag. personally the only problem I have with it is apple banning any games about the civil war. that seems a little ridiculous. There are like 20 different Confederate Flags they could use and a lot of them would be more historically accurate.
That isn't the point though is it? It is appropriate to use the flag in question in this specific context. The fact that they could have used others is not terribly relevant.
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On June 26 2015 04:39 pNRG wrote:
I agree with your overall feeling that we are becoming WAY too PC in most areas. People just seek things out to be offended by. Some people risk losing their jobs if they aren't PC enough - all it takes is a flood of "offended" people complaining on tweeter or fbook and tossing around a few hashtags.
PC has taken over for honesty/truth. When a spade is a spade, it should be called a spade.
Your last sentence is interesting, because that is exactly what people are doing. The Confederate flag is a symbol of racism, and people are finally calling it out for that on a large scale. A spade is a spade. Apparently, it would be PC to let South Carolina continue to fly it on government property without calling the symbol what it is.
I agree that for the most part PC culture is out of control, but I did not think the Confederate flag was an example of such until people started advocating its removal from war memorials, museums, and depictions of historical events (games). That's silly and bordering on dangerous revision of history.
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EPT
