EPTConfederate Flag Removed from stores - Page 3
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Sonnington
United States1107 Posts
On June 26 2015 05:34 Barrin wrote: Seriously.. meh Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think there is any call for prohibiting its sale. Companies are simply choosing to no longer sell it. They have that freedom. Are you looking at twitter? National burn the confederate flag day #burnthatflag. The major retailers didn't stop selling it on principal. They stopped selling it to garner favour from the trend. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 26 2015 06:02 Ghostcom wrote: I think it is about the most appropriate time to pull out the old "those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it"... Forbidding symbols merely gives that symbol power, it has never proven to be a good idea, so why should it now? I agree completely that there is no reason for having it in front of governmental buildings, but forbidding it would be beyond stupid. Its not really forbidden any more that acid wash jeans. They just don't sell either at Walmart for different reasons. | ||
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SK.Testie
Canada11084 Posts
Should major retailers stop selling it? Who cares, that's their choice. The whole flag discussion seems so off base because the real discussion should be about how utterly retarded guns are. | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Silvanel
Poland4769 Posts
On June 26 2015 05:37 Vindicare605 wrote: It's not kind of like a swatstika, it's almost exactly the same thing. Both symbols represent white supremacy, the only difference is that one believed in it through extermination and the other through slavery. We don't bat an eye at the idea that Nazi flags are banned in Germany, why should Confederate flags in the United States be any different? Swastika doesnt represnt white supremacy....white people where primary victims of Nazis and they (Nazis) cooperated with Japan and kinda contemplated alliances with Arabs. They were racist right, but not white superamcists. | ||
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FHDH
United States7023 Posts
Fuck Confederate traitors and their sympathizers. Fuck slavers, their supporters, and all the historical revisionists who have been working to erase the reality of their history. Fuck that flag. It's a good day to be an American. | ||
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oBlade
United States6574 Posts
On June 26 2015 04:59 ZasZ. wrote: Let's be real here, who is praising Walmart et al for "doing the right thing?" Everyone sane and reasonable knows that this decision impacts their bottom line and that is why they made it. Everyone has known this flag is a symbol of racism for the last 50 years but only recently are major corporations removing it from the shelves as a direct response to the shit storm. They're not protecting you from anything, but making an inventory decision like when they decide to stop carrying that brand of laundry detergent because it isn't cost effective to put on the shelves. It's not a simple "inventory decision" in the cases of Apple. Amazon, eBay, and Google. I'm not interested in what fabric a supermarket chooses to buy from a factory and sell. I care about things like this: Google is removing results related to the Confederate Flag from Google Shopping, the company's online marketplace. You should also care about what huge tech companies, that control markets and information and place themselves between you and the world, are doing. | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On June 26 2015 06:10 oBlade wrote: It's not a simple "inventory decision" in the cases of Apple. Amazon, eBay, and Google. I'm not interested in what fabric a supermarket chooses to buy from a factory and sell. I care about things like this: You should also care about what huge tech companies, that control markets and information and place themselves between you and the world, are doing. Maybe inventory was the wrong word for it since it implies that Confederate merchandise is taking up space that a different product could occupy. Obviously that isn't the case with online retailers, I doubt there are warehouses full of Confederate gear that they are trying to free up. But these companies are making an economic decision to remove the symbol from their stores because they feel the profits from selling the merchandise aren't worth the negative PR from carrying the merchandise in the first place. That is their right. It's hard to recognize because the free market is acting as a force for positive social change in this case, but that's what it is. If the majority of Americans didn't find the flag to be a racist symbol, these companies would have no reason to stop selling them. EDIT: To clarify, I agree that banning the flag from anything but government and public property is a mistake and a revision of history, and that Apple's response was heavy-handed, unnecessary, and dangerous as a precedent. The flag has a place in history and in depictions of the Civil War, and it existing in those places is not racist by nature unless it is used that way. | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
I'm not even American, but the US used to stand as a paragon of free speech and relative freedom of action. Look at what is happening now.. I'm not saying it should be illegal for stores to not carry the flag, I'm saying that it's a shitty attitude for the news (and people in general) to say "I don't like this thing, so you shouldn't have it." What SJWs don't seem to understand is that as much of a right as they have to call people names and cling to their icons and flags of inclusiveness, so to can the "racists" and "shitty" people.. If someone shoots up a church after holding a Confederacy associated flag, that doesn't rebuke the entire validity of the civil war.. It's bad when I'm siding with biggots and racists when I think that diversity is preferable, but tbh they have less idiotic ideas when it comes to freedom of speech.. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Walmart and Apple are exercising their right of free speech by saying "we are not selling this any more." Not selling a product isn't taking away anyone right to free speech. In the US, we are still all about it. Also, LOL at the non-ironic use of SJW. The true boggy man that has come to take away your video games and racist flags. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On June 26 2015 06:18 Endymion wrote: the Confederacy and what it stood for in terms of freedom of expressing an opinion on racial as well as economic views was a beautiful thing, and the civil war was incredibly important for the development of the modern US.. banning the flag associated with the Confederacy is a ridiculous knee-jerk reaction to a shooting that, while sad, means little compared to what the civil war was about... Honestly I fail to see the connection between the flag and the "rising racial tensions" at all, I know southerners love to remember their heritage (and rightfully so), but I have never heard of a direct connection until now.. I'm not even American, but the US used to stand as a paragon of free speech and relative freedom of action. Look at what is happening now.. I'm not saying it should be illegal for stores to not carry the flag, I'm saying that it's a shitty attitude for the news (and people in general) to say "I don't like this thing, so you shouldn't have it." What SJWs don't seem to understand is that as much of a right as they have to call people names and cling to their icons and flags of inclusiveness, so to can the "racists" and "shitty" people.. If someone shoots up a church after holding a Confederacy associated flag, that doesn't rebuke the entire validity of the civil war.. It's bad when I'm siding with biggots and racists when I think that diversity is preferable, but tbh they have less idiotic ideas when it comes to freedom of speech.. No one has proposed a law anywhere that would make the flag illegal to own. While the shitstorm started after the Charleston shootings, it was in direct response to the fact that the Confederate flag, a symbol of slavery and racism to many Americans, continued to fly at full-staff over government property in South Carolina while the US and SC flags were lowered to half-staff in response to the tragedy. Now, they were physically unable to lower the Confederate flag to half-staff because of the way it was attached to the pole, but it brought up the relatively good question of why the fuck that thing is flying over government property in the first place when it was the symbol of a defeated secession attempt from 150 years ago and was actively used in the 1960's to oppose the civil rights movement. I find it interesting you think the Confederacy's opinion on racial matters was a "beautiful thing." We are proud of our right for every individual to have an opinion, but that does not make all opinions equal, and some opinions are pretty universally bad, like the Confederacy's opinion on racial matters. Just because it is a racist's right to be racist doesn't mean he earns any respect from others for having that opinion. | ||
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32755 Posts
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On June 26 2015 06:26 Plansix wrote: Except its not the flag for Confederacy and never. Its a flag for one specific army that was then appropriated by racists who didn't like that they couldn't have black and white water fountains any more. Walmart and Apple are exercising their right of free speech by saying "we are not selling this any more." Not selling a product isn't taking away anyone right to free speech. In the US, we are still all about it. Also, LOL at the non-ironic use of SJW. The true boggy man that has come to take away your video games and racist flags. It seems dishonest to lump Apple in with all of those other retailers, considering it's not like they just removed Confederate flag backgrounds from the marketplace but ALL Civil War games of any description, which is heavy-handed and unnecessary, not to mention unfair to the developers of those games. | ||
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
On June 26 2015 04:09 ZasZ. wrote: I cannot think of any country in the world that proudly displays symbols associated with a rebellious faction 150 years after that faction was put down. Scotland. | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
If I say "I disagree with the LGBT flag. Since I'm straight, it's offensive to me that others are different and celebrate something that I'm not. Jeffrey Dahmer was gay and he killed people, so i'm not cool with your flag anymore, please don't fly it anymore." Is that cool? lol.. that's how I define sjw, people who attack others for not agreeing with them, so laugh at me if you want for my diction.. | ||
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screamingpalm
United States1527 Posts
Confederate states did claim the right to secede, but no state claimed to be seceding for that right. In fact, Confederates opposed states’ rights — that is, the right of Northern states not to support slavery. On Dec. 24, 1860, delegates at South Carolina’s secession convention adopted a “Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union.” It noted “an increasing hostility on the part of the non-slaveholding States to the institution of slavery” and protested that Northern states had failed to “fulfill their constitutional obligations” by interfering with the return of fugitive slaves to bondage. Slavery, not states’ rights, birthed the Civil War. South Carolina was further upset that New York no longer allowed “slavery transit.” In the past, if Charleston gentry wanted to spend August in the Hamptons, they could bring their cook along. No longer — and South Carolina’s delegates were outraged. In addition, they objected that New England states let black men vote and tolerated abolitionist societies. According to South Carolina, states should not have the right to let their citizens assemble and speak freely when what they said threatened slavery. Other seceding states echoed South Carolina. “Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery — the greatest material interest of the world,” proclaimed Mississippi in its own secession declaration, passed Jan. 9, 1861. “Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of the commerce of the earth. . . . A blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.” http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/five-myths-about-why-the-south-seceded/ar-AAc0LfR | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24387 Posts
On June 26 2015 06:32 ZasZ. wrote: No one has proposed a law anywhere that would make the flag illegal to own. While the shitstorm started after the Charleston shootings, it was in direct response to the fact that the Confederate flag, a symbol of slavery and racism to many Americans, continued to fly at full-staff over government property in South Carolina while the US and SC flags were lowered to half-staff in response to the tragedy. Now, they were physically unable to lower the Confederate flag to half-staff because of the way it was attached to the pole, but it brought up the relatively good question of why the fuck that thing is flying over government property in the first place when it was the symbol of a defeated secession attempt from 150 years ago and was actively used in the 1960's to oppose the civil rights movement. I find it interesting you think the Confederacy's opinion on racial matters was a "beautiful thing." We are proud of our right for every individual to have an opinion, but that does not make all opinions equal, and some opinions are pretty universally bad, like the Confederacy's opinion on racial matters. Just because it is a racist's right to be racist doesn't mean he earns any respect from others for having that opinion. Hell it's going to take more than a month to even get the damn flag removed. It's still not even a done deal. There's a lot of skepticism that when it comes time for the rubber to meet the road on voting to take it down that they will have the needed votes. + Show Spoiler + Rep. Mike Burns (R-Greenville) Burns, a South Carolina native, said the flag shouldn’t be taken down because people view it as a way to honor their heritage and their ancestors who fought in the Civil War. Rep. Bill Chumley (R-Greenville, Spartanburg) A member of the Sons of Confederate Veterans, Chumley said the issue of the flag didn’t need to be discussed further, as it was decided in a 2000 compromise to move the flag from the Statehouse dome to the Capitol grounds. “This needs to go no further,” he told the Post. “It has been settled already. A compromise is a compromise.” Christopher Corley (R-Aiken) The 35-year-old former attorney made his opinion on the flag clear. “I’m for leaving it where it is — absolutely,” he said. “If I have to put 500 amendments on this thing to keep it there, then I will do it. This is a non-issue that’s being made an issue by certain groups trying to take advantage of a terrible situation.” Craig A. Gagnon (R-Abbeville, Anderson) Gagnon, a Massachusetts-born former chiropractor, told the Post he sees no reason to take the flag down. “I don’t think the flag at the monument at the Statehouse was a part of the reason for doing these heinous murders,” he said. Mike Gambrell (R-Abbeville, Anderson) This former fire department chief, along with other representatives from his county, said it was not an appropriate time to debate the issue of the flag. They told the Anderson Independent Mail that discussions about the Confederate flag should wait until after funerals for the nine victims are held. “There is a time and place for that decision,” he said. “I don’t think it is right now.” Gambrell is the chairman of the county’s legislative delegation. Jonathon D. Hill (R-Anderson) Hill told the Independent Mail he will oppose any effort to remove the Confederate flag from the grounds and added that he was “pretty disappointed” with the governor’s “misguided attempt to combat racism.” “You defeat it with love,” Hill said. “You don’t defeat it with politics.” Michael A. Pitts (R-Greenwood, Laurens) When asked about the Confederate flag on the day after shooting, Pitts said, “I think it’ll bring up talk about possibly moving it because that talk is just below the surface forever. But I don’t see that this incident has any bearing on the flag or the flag has any bearing on the incident. This kid had drug issues and mental issues and I think that’s the root of the problem. Racism exists no matter whether you try to use the flag as a symbol for that or not.” Mike Ryhal (R-Horry) Former businessman Ryhal has spoken a few times about his belief that the flag is “no problem.” “I don’t think it should be removed,” he told the Post. “It is a part of the South Carolina history. It is on the grounds. I think it’s fine where it’s at.” He also said removing the flag “wouldn’t change the way people feel about race.” “We have numerous monuments all over the Statehouse grounds reflecting the history of South Carolina and I see that flag as a piece of our history,” he said to the Myrtle Beach Sun-News. “The fact is it’s part of the history of the South. There’s no problem with having it out there.” Source On June 26 2015 06:33 PhoenixVoid wrote: Ban the Confederate flag all you want but rooting out the inherent problems in American society and behind the attack on the church takes a lot more effort than censoring out a historical symbol. Even if racists rally behind the Confederate flag the real concern of racism itself and the ability to access guns so easily are the primary factors behind the attack not the flag. I know it was for sensitivity to see the Confederate flag raised while the others were half-mast but don't pretend like this will solve the problems in the South or stop racists from taking other banners. Not a single person on the planet has actually suggested removing the flag (or banning it even though that's not what's being considered) would end racism. That is the dumbest strawman I've seen about this issue. The call to remove it from state buildings should work like a charm to expose racists. It doesn't take many quotes on why one opposes taking it down to expose oneself as either irresponsibly ignorant or outright racist. | ||
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