EPTShots fired at Charlie Hebdo offices - France - Page 56
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farvacola
United States18872 Posts
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bobsire
Canada296 Posts
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Biff The Understudy
France8219 Posts
On January 09 2015 00:49 farvacola wrote: I think the fact that a reactionary conservative is one of the only news hosts willing to interview a man like Choudary speaks volumes and is definitely worth attention. The manner in which radicals and reactionaries feed into one another is something everyone needs to recognize, particularly in France. Sure, as I said earlier, there is a reason it was not Le Pen, Zemmour, Houllebeck or the newspaper Minute that was attacked. I think the far right and islamists agree on most things, and they both want this war between religions and cultures, this incompatibility between values and a first degree literal Islam. They really have a lot of common interests. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6326 Posts
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Maenander
Germany4927 Posts
On January 09 2015 01:03 RvB wrote: Ignoring the hate speech doesn't make it go away. Giving extremists a platform is necessary imo as long as there are people who van give counter arguments and a level headed response. I remember a turkish-german comedian made a good point, when he said, that he sees more Islamists on German TV than moderate Muslims, while they are only a tiny part of the Muslim community in Germany. From what I can tell the Muslims in Germany are on average way more liberal than their counterparts in most islamic countries, and yet people only look at the tiny minority of extremists, because these are the Muslims we hear about in the news. It leads to this giant overreaction in the form of PEGIDA, and it is no coincidence that PEGIDA thrives in regions, where hardly any Muslims are present. Extremists on both sides win the media war, it's a worrying situation. Part of the problem is that our sensationalist media (and the readers/listeners/viewers) love extremes. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On January 09 2015 02:01 Maenander wrote: I remember a turkish-german comedian made a good point, when he said, that he sees more Islamists on German TV than moderate Muslims, while they are only a tiny part of the Muslim community in Germany. From what I can tell the Muslims in Germany are on average way more liberal than their counterparts in most islamic countries, and yet people only look at the tiny minority of extremists, because these are the Muslims we hear about in the news. It leads to this giant overreaction in the form of PEGIDA, and it is no coincidence that PEGIDA thrives in regions, where hardly any Muslims are present. Extremists on both sides win the media war, it's a worrying situation. Its been the case in switzerland too. By far the people who whine the most about foreigners and muslims are the one that have the least exposition to them. For example there was this referendum to ban the construction of minarets (the tower in mosques) although there exist only 3 in switzerland and they really are not a problem. This is not helped by the fact that there is a high proportion of xenophobic people here, especially in the rural areas where they have less exposition to foreigners and are thus more afraid of them and easily manipulated by the far right and their very nationalist (and oftentime very chockingly racist) propaganda. The sad part is that it is very easy to make this kind of misinformation work. | ||
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Squat
Sweden7978 Posts
On January 09 2015 00:49 farvacola wrote: I think the fact that a reactionary conservative is one of the only news hosts willing to interview a man like Choudary speaks volumes and is definitely worth attention. The manner in which radicals and reactionaries feed into one another is something everyone needs to recognize, particularly in France. He has been on similar shows multiple times, defending 9/11, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram etc. I have no idea why, the guy is a run of the mill rabble rouser and loudmouth, with no credentials or substance. He always pops up to say something fatuous and deplorable whenever something like this occurs, and then the hosts shout at him, call him a terrorist and tell him he is a disgrace to his religion. Then they bring him back next week. Derp. | ||
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Faust852
Luxembourg4004 Posts
On January 09 2015 02:16 Roggay wrote: Its been the case in switzerland too. By far the people who whine the most about foreigners and muslims are the one that have the least exposition to them. Not really true, all the people I know from Bruxelles are growing more and more racists toward arabes and muslims people. I got lucky to move in Luxembourg when I was 13 so I'm more tolerant I think, tho I'm not really at ease when I go back to Bruxelles or any big cities in Belgium. It's a fact that area that are more foreigners based are more hostiles toward natives. At least in Belgium and France. (There are like 0 muslim in Luxembourg so I can't really say much tho). | ||
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SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
On January 09 2015 02:44 Squat wrote: He has been on similar shows multiple times, defending 9/11, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram etc. I have no idea why, the guy is a run of the mill rabble rouser and loudmouth, with no credentials or substance. He always pops up to say something fatuous and deplorable whenever something like this occurs, and then the hosts shout at him, call him a terrorist and tell him he is a disgrace to his religion. Then they bring him back next week. Derp. And yet he represents the views of a not insignificant portion of Muslims. There are zones in Paris and Brussels in which the law of the land isn't upheld, in which Sharia courts rule and which law enforcement doesn't even enter. This is no exaggeration. Belgian tax payers literally pay to maintain a zone that is filled with people waiting to harm and subdue them, who don't pay taxes, who are above the law, who procreate profusely and whose only contact with Belgian society is through the welfare-money the receive. Yet if these issues are addressed, those who dare speak up are ridiculed as right-wing nuts. | ||
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SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
On January 09 2015 03:02 Faust852 wrote: Not really true, all the people I know from Bruxelles are growing more and more racists toward arabes and muslims people. I got lucky to move in Luxembourg when I was 13 so I'm more tolerant I think, tho I'm not really at ease when I go back to Bruxelles or any big cities in Belgium. It's a fact that area that are more foreigners based are more hostiles toward natives. At least in Belgium and France. (There are like 0 muslim in Luxembourg so I can't really say much tho). That's not really racism, though, is it? | ||
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OtherWorld
France17333 Posts
On January 09 2015 03:02 Faust852 wrote: Not really true, all the people I know from Bruxelles are growing more and more racists toward arabes and muslims people. I got lucky to move in Luxembourg when I was 13 so I'm more tolerant I think, tho I'm not really at ease when I go back to Bruxelles or any big cities in Belgium. It's a fact that area that are more foreigners based are more hostiles toward natives. At least in Belgium and France. (There are like 0 muslim in Luxembourg so I can't really say much tho). I'm pretty sure there have been studies in France showing that the further away from a big city you go, the most people who vote for far-right/racist parties you encounter. And from personal experience of having grown in the countryside (~40 minutes from a big city) and then moved into a big city, I know a lot of people who are openly racist despite seeing with their own eyes something like 1 to 5 non-white people a year. Some of these people became way more tolerant after having moved in a big city and having to live, talk and socialize with said non-white people. | ||
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Aeromi
France14463 Posts
Gathering in Nancy. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On January 09 2015 03:02 Faust852 wrote: Not really true, all the people I know from Bruxelles are growing more and more racists toward arabes and muslims people. I got lucky to move in Luxembourg when I was 13 so I'm more tolerant I think, tho I'm not really at ease when I go back to Bruxelles or any big cities in Belgium. It's a fact that area that are more foreigners based are more hostiles toward natives. At least in Belgium and France. (There are like 0 muslim in Luxembourg so I can't really say much tho). In switzerland at least, the result from the different votations on immigration, foreigners etc tend to show that the rural areas vote a lot more against foreigners than in the cities. The german speaking states (cantons) of switzerland also tends to vote more against foreigner than the french speaking states. | ||
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argonautdice
Canada2722 Posts
On January 09 2015 03:09 SixStrings wrote: And yet he represents the views of a not insignificant portion of Muslims. There are zones in Paris and Brussels in which the law of the land isn't upheld, in which Sharia courts aren't allowed and which law enforcement doesn't even enter. This is no exaggeration. Belgian tax payers literally pay to maintain a zone that is filled with people waiting to harm and subdue them, who don't pay taxes, who are above the law, who breed like rabbits and whose only contact with Belgian society is through the welfare-money the receive. Yet if these issues are addressed, those who dare speak up are ridiculed as right-wing nuts. Are you sure this isn't an exaggeration? | ||
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r00ty
Germany1101 Posts
On January 09 2015 03:09 SixStrings wrote: And yet he represents the views of a not insignificant portion of Muslims. There are zones in Paris and Brussels in which the law of the land isn't upheld, in which Sharia courts aren't allowed and which law enforcement doesn't even enter. This is no exaggeration. Belgian tax payers literally pay to maintain a zone that is filled with people waiting to harm and subdue them, who don't pay taxes, who are above the law, who breed like rabbits and whose only contact with Belgian society is through the welfare-money the receive. Yet if these issues are addressed, those who dare speak up are ridiculed as right-wing nuts. Using expressions like "breed like rabbits" doesn't help your credibility. That's straight out racist. Yes there are problems, but imho it's blown out of proportion. As was mentioned already, xenophobia is more widespread in areas with less immigrants. Why is that? I lived in a predominately muslim-immigrant area and like 95% of them were decent people. I treated them with respect like anybody else and never had any problems. Like 5% of the people in Germany are muslims. Extremist muslims are a couple of thousand of over 80 million. I don't see the point in changing our laws and way of living because of some guys. It makes no sense. | ||
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Husnan
France298 Posts
All the journalists and politicians can come up with is : "let's not get confused, Islam has nothing to do with this". Fuck off, you're the one who's confused, if these sociopaths didn't think they were doing what God wants, would they have pulled the trigger? Of course not. It's like saying those holier-than-thou cunts in the US who murdered abortion doctors weren't real christians and what they did had nothing to do with christianity. Of course, most christians would never do that, know why? cause most christians, like most muslims, like most human beings, are decent people. What a contempt it shows from the politicians/journalists to pretend that we need to be reminded of that. It still doesn't change the fact that they did what they did because of the combination of their religious ideas and their psychopathic brains. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
On January 09 2015 03:30 r00ty wrote: Using expressions like "breed like rabbits" doesn't help your credibility. That's straight out racist. Yes there are problems, but imho it's blown out of proportion. As was mentioned already, xenophobia is more widespread in areas with less immigrants. Why is that? I lived in a predominately muslim-immigrant area and like 95% of them were decent people. I treated them with respect like anybody else and never had any problems. Like 5% of the people in Germany are muslims. Extremist muslims are a couple of thousand of over 80 million. I don't see the point in changing our laws and way of living because of some guys. It makes no sense. LOL no. I could say the same about 'wasp' couples I know who have lot of kids. Politically correctness off the charts once again | ||
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SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
On January 09 2015 03:30 r00ty wrote: Using expressions like "breed like rabbits" doesn't help your credibility. That's straight out racist. Yes there are problems, but imho it's blown out of proportion. As was mentioned already, xenophobia is more widespread in areas with less immigrants. Why is that? I lived in a predominately muslim-immigrant area and like 95% of them were decent people. I treated them with respect like anybody else and never had any problems. Like 5% of the people in Germany are muslims. Extremist muslims are a couple of thousand of over 80 million. I don't see the point in changing our laws and way of living because of some guys. It makes no sense. How in the name of all that is holy is 'breed like rabbits' racists? That's just an English idiom for people who have lots of offspring. My aunt and uncle also breed like rabbits and they're the same race I am. It's funny that you never had any problems. I live in a very international city in Germany. I can take a photograph of my mailbox for you, maybe one in five names is German. There are three people named Xhu in my house alone. Most are students, only here for a year, but there's also a lot of Americans whose parents were stationed here, there are tonnes of Eastern Europeans who work here etc and don't get me started on tourists from Japan and China. We all get along splendidly, tourists are how I make my living, ERASMUS students sit next to me in class and are my neighbours. It's like the Melting Pot NYC isn't. That is how integration works properly. Then there's areas dominated by Muslims. Ever been to Neuköln as an infidel? | ||
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Furikawari
France2522 Posts
On January 09 2015 03:44 SixStrings wrote: How in the name of all that is holy is 'breed like rabbits' racists? That's just an English idiom for people who have lots of offspring. My aunt and uncle also breed like rabbits and they're the same race I am. It's funny that you never had any problems. I live in a very international city in Germany. I can take a photograph of my mailbox for you, maybe one in five names is German. There are three people named Xhu in my house alone. Most are students, only here for a year, but there's also a lot of Americans whose parents were stationed here, there are tonnes of Eastern Europeans who work here etc and don't get me started on tourists from Japan and China. We all get along splendidly tourists are how I make my living, ERASMUS students sit next to me in class and are my neighbours. It's like the Melting Pot NYC isn't. That is how integration works properly. Here in France it's an expression typically used by racist people about minorities. | ||
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r00ty
Germany1101 Posts
On January 09 2015 03:38 Husnan wrote: What needs to change isn't the laws. It's the political correctness that is poisoning all our societies. Religions are ridiculous ideas worthy of nothing but contempt but nobody fucking dares to say it anymore because somebody might be "offended". Well, they can fucking be offended, I won't stop saying it takes a moron to make a religious man, and if there are enough morons, there WILL be a psychopath amongst them, who will pull shit like that. I fully agree. People who support actions like this attack and extremists of any kind have to learn, that they are in the wrong place and it should be made absolutely clear to them that this is not accepted. Most muslims just want a little bit of respect and that's fine. As long they don't go against our laws and values and don't try to force anything on us they can do whatever they want. "Sharia Police" though, young muslims beating up people for reasons of "honor" or women wearing/made to wear Burkas... Fuck them, won't happen, wrong place for that. Good bye or get fucked. On January 09 2015 03:49 Furikawari wrote: + Show Spoiler + On January 09 2015 03:44 SixStrings wrote: How in the name of all that is holy is 'breed like rabbits' racists? That's just an English idiom for people who have lots of offspring. My aunt and uncle also breed like rabbits and they're the same race I am. It's funny that you never had any problems. I live in a very international city in Germany. I can take a photograph of my mailbox for you, maybe one in five names is German. There are three people named Xhu in my house alone. Most are students, only here for a year, but there's also a lot of Americans whose parents were stationed here, there are tonnes of Eastern Europeans who work here etc and don't get me started on tourists from Japan and China. We all get along splendidly tourists are how I make my living, ERASMUS students sit next to me in class and are my neighbours. It's like the Melting Pot NYC isn't. That is how integration works properly. Here in France it's an expression typically used by racist people about minorities. Over here as well. | ||
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