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On January 09 2015 03:49 Furikawari wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:44 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:30 r00ty wrote:On January 09 2015 03:09 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 02:44 Squat wrote:On January 09 2015 00:49 farvacola wrote:
I think the fact that a reactionary conservative is one of the only news hosts willing to interview a man like Choudary speaks volumes and is definitely worth attention. The manner in which radicals and reactionaries feed into one another is something everyone needs to recognize, particularly in France. He has been on similar shows multiple times, defending 9/11, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram etc. I have no idea why, the guy is a run of the mill rabble rouser and loudmouth, with no credentials or substance. He always pops up to say something fatuous and deplorable whenever something like this occurs, and then the hosts shout at him, call him a terrorist and tell him he is a disgrace to his religion. Then they bring him back next week. Derp. And yet he represents the views of a not insignificant portion of Muslims. There are zones in Paris and Brussels in which the law of the land isn't upheld, in which Sharia courts aren't allowed and which law enforcement doesn't even enter. This is no exaggeration. Belgian tax payers literally pay to maintain a zone that is filled with people waiting to harm and subdue them, who don't pay taxes, who are above the law, who breed like rabbits and whose only contact with Belgian society is through the welfare-money the receive. Yet if these issues are addressed, those who dare speak up are ridiculed as right-wing nuts. Using expressions like "breed like rabbits" doesn't help your credibility. That's straight out racist. Yes there are problems, but imho it's blown out of proportion. As was mentioned already, xenophobia is more widespread in areas with less immigrants. Why is that? I lived in a predominately muslim-immigrant area and like 95% of them were decent people. I treated them with respect like anybody else and never had any problems. Like 5% of the people in Germany are muslims. Extremist muslims are a couple of thousand of over 80 million. I don't see the point in changing our laws and way of living because of some guys. It makes no sense. How in the name of all that is holy is 'breed like rabbits' racists? That's just an English idiom for people who have lots of offspring. My aunt and uncle also breed like rabbits and they're the same race I am. It's funny that you never had any problems. I live in a very international city in Germany. I can take a photograph of my mailbox for you, maybe one in five names is German. There are three people named Xhu in my house alone. Most are students, only here for a year, but there's also a lot of Americans whose parents were stationed here, there are tonnes of Eastern Europeans who work here etc and don't get me started on tourists from Japan and China. We all get along splendidly tourists are how I make my living, ERASMUS students sit next to me in class and are my neighbours. It's like the Melting Pot NYC isn't. That is how integration works properly. Here in France it's an expression typically used by racist people about minorities.
In France, it's an expression used to mean that people have a lot of kids. An expression that also happens to be used by racists who say that arabs and blacks have more children than whiteys (which is true, by the way)
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On January 09 2015 03:52 Husnan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:49 Furikawari wrote:On January 09 2015 03:44 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:30 r00ty wrote:On January 09 2015 03:09 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 02:44 Squat wrote:On January 09 2015 00:49 farvacola wrote:
I think the fact that a reactionary conservative is one of the only news hosts willing to interview a man like Choudary speaks volumes and is definitely worth attention. The manner in which radicals and reactionaries feed into one another is something everyone needs to recognize, particularly in France. He has been on similar shows multiple times, defending 9/11, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram etc. I have no idea why, the guy is a run of the mill rabble rouser and loudmouth, with no credentials or substance. He always pops up to say something fatuous and deplorable whenever something like this occurs, and then the hosts shout at him, call him a terrorist and tell him he is a disgrace to his religion. Then they bring him back next week. Derp. And yet he represents the views of a not insignificant portion of Muslims. There are zones in Paris and Brussels in which the law of the land isn't upheld, in which Sharia courts aren't allowed and which law enforcement doesn't even enter. This is no exaggeration. Belgian tax payers literally pay to maintain a zone that is filled with people waiting to harm and subdue them, who don't pay taxes, who are above the law, who breed like rabbits and whose only contact with Belgian society is through the welfare-money the receive. Yet if these issues are addressed, those who dare speak up are ridiculed as right-wing nuts. Using expressions like "breed like rabbits" doesn't help your credibility. That's straight out racist. Yes there are problems, but imho it's blown out of proportion. As was mentioned already, xenophobia is more widespread in areas with less immigrants. Why is that? I lived in a predominately muslim-immigrant area and like 95% of them were decent people. I treated them with respect like anybody else and never had any problems. Like 5% of the people in Germany are muslims. Extremist muslims are a couple of thousand of over 80 million. I don't see the point in changing our laws and way of living because of some guys. It makes no sense. How in the name of all that is holy is 'breed like rabbits' racists? That's just an English idiom for people who have lots of offspring. My aunt and uncle also breed like rabbits and they're the same race I am. It's funny that you never had any problems. I live in a very international city in Germany. I can take a photograph of my mailbox for you, maybe one in five names is German. There are three people named Xhu in my house alone. Most are students, only here for a year, but there's also a lot of Americans whose parents were stationed here, there are tonnes of Eastern Europeans who work here etc and don't get me started on tourists from Japan and China. We all get along splendidly tourists are how I make my living, ERASMUS students sit next to me in class and are my neighbours. It's like the Melting Pot NYC isn't. That is how integration works properly. Here in France it's an expression typically used by racist people about minorities. In France, it's an expression used to mean that people have a lot of kids. An expression that also happens to be used by racists who say that arabs and blacks have more children than whiteys (which is true, by the way)
It's not racist, but it is derogatory.
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On January 09 2015 03:12 SixStrings wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:02 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 02:16 Roggay wrote:On January 09 2015 02:01 Maenander wrote:On January 09 2015 01:03 RvB wrote:
Ignoring the hate speech doesn't make it go away. Giving extremists a platform is necessary imo as long as there are people who van give counter arguments and a level headed response. I remember a turkish-german comedian made a good point, when he said, that he sees more Islamists on German TV than moderate Muslims, while they are only a tiny part of the Muslim community in Germany. From what I can tell the Muslims in Germany are on average way more liberal than their counterparts in most islamic countries, and yet people only look at the tiny minority of extremists, because these are the Muslims we hear about in the news. It leads to this giant overreaction in the form of PEGIDA, and it is no coincidence that PEGIDA thrives in regions, where hardly any Muslims are present. Extremists on both sides win the media war, it's a worrying situation. Its been the case in switzerland too. By far the people who whine the most about foreigners and muslims are the one that have the least exposition to them. Not really true, all the people I know from Bruxelles are growing more and more racists toward arabes and muslims people. I got lucky to move in Luxembourg when I was 13 so I'm more tolerant I think, tho I'm not really at ease when I go back to Bruxelles or any big cities in Belgium. It's a fact that area that are more foreigners based are more hostiles toward natives. At least in Belgium and France. (There are like 0 muslim in Luxembourg so I can't really say much tho). That's not really racism, though, is it?
If wanting them kicked out of the country because they are considered parasites is not racism Idk what is.
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On January 09 2015 03:49 Furikawari wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:44 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:30 r00ty wrote:On January 09 2015 03:09 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 02:44 Squat wrote:On January 09 2015 00:49 farvacola wrote:
I think the fact that a reactionary conservative is one of the only news hosts willing to interview a man like Choudary speaks volumes and is definitely worth attention. The manner in which radicals and reactionaries feed into one another is something everyone needs to recognize, particularly in France. He has been on similar shows multiple times, defending 9/11, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram etc. I have no idea why, the guy is a run of the mill rabble rouser and loudmouth, with no credentials or substance. He always pops up to say something fatuous and deplorable whenever something like this occurs, and then the hosts shout at him, call him a terrorist and tell him he is a disgrace to his religion. Then they bring him back next week. Derp. And yet he represents the views of a not insignificant portion of Muslims. There are zones in Paris and Brussels in which the law of the land isn't upheld, in which Sharia courts aren't allowed and which law enforcement doesn't even enter. This is no exaggeration. Belgian tax payers literally pay to maintain a zone that is filled with people waiting to harm and subdue them, who don't pay taxes, who are above the law, who breed like rabbits and whose only contact with Belgian society is through the welfare-money the receive. Yet if these issues are addressed, those who dare speak up are ridiculed as right-wing nuts. Using expressions like "breed like rabbits" doesn't help your credibility. That's straight out racist. Yes there are problems, but imho it's blown out of proportion. As was mentioned already, xenophobia is more widespread in areas with less immigrants. Why is that? I lived in a predominately muslim-immigrant area and like 95% of them were decent people. I treated them with respect like anybody else and never had any problems. Like 5% of the people in Germany are muslims. Extremist muslims are a couple of thousand of over 80 million. I don't see the point in changing our laws and way of living because of some guys. It makes no sense. How in the name of all that is holy is 'breed like rabbits' racists? That's just an English idiom for people who have lots of offspring. My aunt and uncle also breed like rabbits and they're the same race I am. It's funny that you never had any problems. I live in a very international city in Germany. I can take a photograph of my mailbox for you, maybe one in five names is German. There are three people named Xhu in my house alone. Most are students, only here for a year, but there's also a lot of Americans whose parents were stationed here, there are tonnes of Eastern Europeans who work here etc and don't get me started on tourists from Japan and China. We all get along splendidly tourists are how I make my living, ERASMUS students sit next to me in class and are my neighbours. It's like the Melting Pot NYC isn't. That is how integration works properly. Here in France it's an expression typically used by racist people about minorities.
Just to be on the save side, I edited my post.
I didn't know that 'breeding like rabbits' had any racial connotations, not a native speaker, yada yada.
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On January 09 2015 03:54 SixStrings wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:49 Furikawari wrote:On January 09 2015 03:44 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:30 r00ty wrote:On January 09 2015 03:09 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 02:44 Squat wrote:On January 09 2015 00:49 farvacola wrote:
I think the fact that a reactionary conservative is one of the only news hosts willing to interview a man like Choudary speaks volumes and is definitely worth attention. The manner in which radicals and reactionaries feed into one another is something everyone needs to recognize, particularly in France. He has been on similar shows multiple times, defending 9/11, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram etc. I have no idea why, the guy is a run of the mill rabble rouser and loudmouth, with no credentials or substance. He always pops up to say something fatuous and deplorable whenever something like this occurs, and then the hosts shout at him, call him a terrorist and tell him he is a disgrace to his religion. Then they bring him back next week. Derp. And yet he represents the views of a not insignificant portion of Muslims. There are zones in Paris and Brussels in which the law of the land isn't upheld, in which Sharia courts aren't allowed and which law enforcement doesn't even enter. This is no exaggeration. Belgian tax payers literally pay to maintain a zone that is filled with people waiting to harm and subdue them, who don't pay taxes, who are above the law, who breed like rabbits and whose only contact with Belgian society is through the welfare-money the receive. Yet if these issues are addressed, those who dare speak up are ridiculed as right-wing nuts. Using expressions like "breed like rabbits" doesn't help your credibility. That's straight out racist. Yes there are problems, but imho it's blown out of proportion. As was mentioned already, xenophobia is more widespread in areas with less immigrants. Why is that? I lived in a predominately muslim-immigrant area and like 95% of them were decent people. I treated them with respect like anybody else and never had any problems. Like 5% of the people in Germany are muslims. Extremist muslims are a couple of thousand of over 80 million. I don't see the point in changing our laws and way of living because of some guys. It makes no sense. How in the name of all that is holy is 'breed like rabbits' racists? That's just an English idiom for people who have lots of offspring. My aunt and uncle also breed like rabbits and they're the same race I am. It's funny that you never had any problems. I live in a very international city in Germany. I can take a photograph of my mailbox for you, maybe one in five names is German. There are three people named Xhu in my house alone. Most are students, only here for a year, but there's also a lot of Americans whose parents were stationed here, there are tonnes of Eastern Europeans who work here etc and don't get me started on tourists from Japan and China. We all get along splendidly tourists are how I make my living, ERASMUS students sit next to me in class and are my neighbours. It's like the Melting Pot NYC isn't. That is how integration works properly. Here in France it's an expression typically used by racist people about minorities. Just to be on the save side, I edited my post. I didn't know that 'breeding like rabbits' had any racial connotations, not a native speaker, yada yada.
In general, it doesn't, but used in this context, it kinda carries that "smell", y'know...
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On January 09 2015 03:54 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:12 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:02 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 02:16 Roggay wrote:On January 09 2015 02:01 Maenander wrote:On January 09 2015 01:03 RvB wrote:
Ignoring the hate speech doesn't make it go away. Giving extremists a platform is necessary imo as long as there are people who van give counter arguments and a level headed response. I remember a turkish-german comedian made a good point, when he said, that he sees more Islamists on German TV than moderate Muslims, while they are only a tiny part of the Muslim community in Germany. From what I can tell the Muslims in Germany are on average way more liberal than their counterparts in most islamic countries, and yet people only look at the tiny minority of extremists, because these are the Muslims we hear about in the news. It leads to this giant overreaction in the form of PEGIDA, and it is no coincidence that PEGIDA thrives in regions, where hardly any Muslims are present. Extremists on both sides win the media war, it's a worrying situation. Its been the case in switzerland too. By far the people who whine the most about foreigners and muslims are the one that have the least exposition to them. Not really true, all the people I know from Bruxelles are growing more and more racists toward arabes and muslims people. I got lucky to move in Luxembourg when I was 13 so I'm more tolerant I think, tho I'm not really at ease when I go back to Bruxelles or any big cities in Belgium. It's a fact that area that are more foreigners based are more hostiles toward natives. At least in Belgium and France. (There are like 0 muslim in Luxembourg so I can't really say much tho). That's not really racism, though, is it? If wanting them kicked out of the country because they are considered parasites is not racism Idk what is.
Again, who are "them"? If you mean muslims, if cannot be racism by default, since islam is an ideology, not an ethnicity.
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On January 09 2015 03:56 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:54 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 03:12 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:02 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 02:16 Roggay wrote:On January 09 2015 02:01 Maenander wrote:On January 09 2015 01:03 RvB wrote:
Ignoring the hate speech doesn't make it go away. Giving extremists a platform is necessary imo as long as there are people who van give counter arguments and a level headed response. I remember a turkish-german comedian made a good point, when he said, that he sees more Islamists on German TV than moderate Muslims, while they are only a tiny part of the Muslim community in Germany. From what I can tell the Muslims in Germany are on average way more liberal than their counterparts in most islamic countries, and yet people only look at the tiny minority of extremists, because these are the Muslims we hear about in the news. It leads to this giant overreaction in the form of PEGIDA, and it is no coincidence that PEGIDA thrives in regions, where hardly any Muslims are present. Extremists on both sides win the media war, it's a worrying situation. Its been the case in switzerland too. By far the people who whine the most about foreigners and muslims are the one that have the least exposition to them. Not really true, all the people I know from Bruxelles are growing more and more racists toward arabes and muslims people. I got lucky to move in Luxembourg when I was 13 so I'm more tolerant I think, tho I'm not really at ease when I go back to Bruxelles or any big cities in Belgium. It's a fact that area that are more foreigners based are more hostiles toward natives. At least in Belgium and France. (There are like 0 muslim in Luxembourg so I can't really say much tho). That's not really racism, though, is it? If wanting them kicked out of the country because they are considered parasites is not racism Idk what is. Again, who are "them"? If you mean muslims, if cannot be racism by default, since islam is an ideology, not an ethnicity.
Which is exactly why they invented the oh-so-loaded term "islamophobia" 
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On January 09 2015 03:56 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:54 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 03:12 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:02 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 02:16 Roggay wrote:On January 09 2015 02:01 Maenander wrote:On January 09 2015 01:03 RvB wrote:
Ignoring the hate speech doesn't make it go away. Giving extremists a platform is necessary imo as long as there are people who van give counter arguments and a level headed response. I remember a turkish-german comedian made a good point, when he said, that he sees more Islamists on German TV than moderate Muslims, while they are only a tiny part of the Muslim community in Germany. From what I can tell the Muslims in Germany are on average way more liberal than their counterparts in most islamic countries, and yet people only look at the tiny minority of extremists, because these are the Muslims we hear about in the news. It leads to this giant overreaction in the form of PEGIDA, and it is no coincidence that PEGIDA thrives in regions, where hardly any Muslims are present. Extremists on both sides win the media war, it's a worrying situation. Its been the case in switzerland too. By far the people who whine the most about foreigners and muslims are the one that have the least exposition to them. Not really true, all the people I know from Bruxelles are growing more and more racists toward arabes and muslims people. I got lucky to move in Luxembourg when I was 13 so I'm more tolerant I think, tho I'm not really at ease when I go back to Bruxelles or any big cities in Belgium. It's a fact that area that are more foreigners based are more hostiles toward natives. At least in Belgium and France. (There are like 0 muslim in Luxembourg so I can't really say much tho). That's not really racism, though, is it? If wanting them kicked out of the country because they are considered parasites is not racism Idk what is. Again, who are "them"? If you mean muslims, if cannot be racism by default, since islam is an ideology, not an ethnicity.
People tend more and more to mixe arabe and muslims tho. And the vast majorities doesn't even know what is the difference.
Anyway, saying that racism isn't in a huge pike currently in big cities like Bruxelles is being totally blind. There are zones that are 100% foreigners. You can't last 5min without seeing a woman with a veil or burqa nowadays there.
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On January 09 2015 03:59 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:56 Squat wrote:On January 09 2015 03:54 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 03:12 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:02 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 02:16 Roggay wrote:On January 09 2015 02:01 Maenander wrote:On January 09 2015 01:03 RvB wrote:
Ignoring the hate speech doesn't make it go away. Giving extremists a platform is necessary imo as long as there are people who van give counter arguments and a level headed response. I remember a turkish-german comedian made a good point, when he said, that he sees more Islamists on German TV than moderate Muslims, while they are only a tiny part of the Muslim community in Germany. From what I can tell the Muslims in Germany are on average way more liberal than their counterparts in most islamic countries, and yet people only look at the tiny minority of extremists, because these are the Muslims we hear about in the news. It leads to this giant overreaction in the form of PEGIDA, and it is no coincidence that PEGIDA thrives in regions, where hardly any Muslims are present. Extremists on both sides win the media war, it's a worrying situation. Its been the case in switzerland too. By far the people who whine the most about foreigners and muslims are the one that have the least exposition to them. Not really true, all the people I know from Bruxelles are growing more and more racists toward arabes and muslims people. I got lucky to move in Luxembourg when I was 13 so I'm more tolerant I think, tho I'm not really at ease when I go back to Bruxelles or any big cities in Belgium. It's a fact that area that are more foreigners based are more hostiles toward natives. At least in Belgium and France. (There are like 0 muslim in Luxembourg so I can't really say much tho). That's not really racism, though, is it? If wanting them kicked out of the country because they are considered parasites is not racism Idk what is. Again, who are "them"? If you mean muslims, if cannot be racism by default, since islam is an ideology, not an ethnicity. People tend more and more to mixe arabe and muslims tho. And the vast majorities doesn't even know what is the difference. Anyway, saying that racism isn't in a huge pike currently in big cities like Bruxelles is being totally blind. There are zones that are 100% foreigners. You can't last 5min without seeing a woman with a veil or burqa nowadays there.
Writers like Oriana Fallaci predicted that in 2004 already and people back then just shouted 'islamophobe', 'racist' and so on. The same will happen with the book 'Submission' by Michel Houellebecq, you can quote me later. I will buy it the first day and read it without fear in public.
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On January 09 2015 03:52 Husnan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:49 Furikawari wrote:On January 09 2015 03:44 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:30 r00ty wrote:On January 09 2015 03:09 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 02:44 Squat wrote:On January 09 2015 00:49 farvacola wrote:
I think the fact that a reactionary conservative is one of the only news hosts willing to interview a man like Choudary speaks volumes and is definitely worth attention. The manner in which radicals and reactionaries feed into one another is something everyone needs to recognize, particularly in France. He has been on similar shows multiple times, defending 9/11, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram etc. I have no idea why, the guy is a run of the mill rabble rouser and loudmouth, with no credentials or substance. He always pops up to say something fatuous and deplorable whenever something like this occurs, and then the hosts shout at him, call him a terrorist and tell him he is a disgrace to his religion. Then they bring him back next week. Derp. And yet he represents the views of a not insignificant portion of Muslims. There are zones in Paris and Brussels in which the law of the land isn't upheld, in which Sharia courts aren't allowed and which law enforcement doesn't even enter. This is no exaggeration. Belgian tax payers literally pay to maintain a zone that is filled with people waiting to harm and subdue them, who don't pay taxes, who are above the law, who breed like rabbits and whose only contact with Belgian society is through the welfare-money the receive. Yet if these issues are addressed, those who dare speak up are ridiculed as right-wing nuts. Using expressions like "breed like rabbits" doesn't help your credibility. That's straight out racist. Yes there are problems, but imho it's blown out of proportion. As was mentioned already, xenophobia is more widespread in areas with less immigrants. Why is that? I lived in a predominately muslim-immigrant area and like 95% of them were decent people. I treated them with respect like anybody else and never had any problems. Like 5% of the people in Germany are muslims. Extremist muslims are a couple of thousand of over 80 million. I don't see the point in changing our laws and way of living because of some guys. It makes no sense. How in the name of all that is holy is 'breed like rabbits' racists? That's just an English idiom for people who have lots of offspring. My aunt and uncle also breed like rabbits and they're the same race I am. It's funny that you never had any problems. I live in a very international city in Germany. I can take a photograph of my mailbox for you, maybe one in five names is German. There are three people named Xhu in my house alone. Most are students, only here for a year, but there's also a lot of Americans whose parents were stationed here, there are tonnes of Eastern Europeans who work here etc and don't get me started on tourists from Japan and China. We all get along splendidly tourists are how I make my living, ERASMUS students sit next to me in class and are my neighbours. It's like the Melting Pot NYC isn't. That is how integration works properly. Here in France it's an expression typically used by racist people about minorities. In France, it's an expression used to mean that people have a lot of kids. An expression that also happens to be used by racists who say that arabs and blacks have more children than whiteys (which is true, by the way)
By which measurement is it true? What you heard on TV or at the pub?
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On January 09 2015 03:56 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:54 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 03:12 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:02 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 02:16 Roggay wrote:On January 09 2015 02:01 Maenander wrote:On January 09 2015 01:03 RvB wrote:
Ignoring the hate speech doesn't make it go away. Giving extremists a platform is necessary imo as long as there are people who van give counter arguments and a level headed response. I remember a turkish-german comedian made a good point, when he said, that he sees more Islamists on German TV than moderate Muslims, while they are only a tiny part of the Muslim community in Germany. From what I can tell the Muslims in Germany are on average way more liberal than their counterparts in most islamic countries, and yet people only look at the tiny minority of extremists, because these are the Muslims we hear about in the news. It leads to this giant overreaction in the form of PEGIDA, and it is no coincidence that PEGIDA thrives in regions, where hardly any Muslims are present. Extremists on both sides win the media war, it's a worrying situation. Its been the case in switzerland too. By far the people who whine the most about foreigners and muslims are the one that have the least exposition to them. Not really true, all the people I know from Bruxelles are growing more and more racists toward arabes and muslims people. I got lucky to move in Luxembourg when I was 13 so I'm more tolerant I think, tho I'm not really at ease when I go back to Bruxelles or any big cities in Belgium. It's a fact that area that are more foreigners based are more hostiles toward natives. At least in Belgium and France. (There are like 0 muslim in Luxembourg so I can't really say much tho). That's not really racism, though, is it? If wanting them kicked out of the country because they are considered parasites is not racism Idk what is. Again, who are "them"? If you mean muslims, if cannot be racism by default, since islam is an ideology, not an ethnicity.
Race and Ethnicity are two different things. Race exists for a person even if they don't want it, Ethnicity is somewhat of a choice given to how they wish to live and associate their life with. Race is also super hard to define to say person x is race x, ethnicity is much more tightly defined.
Even though Muslim is a religion it's closely tied to particular groups which tend share ethnic and racial features similar to how Jewish is religion not a race but can seemly describe a race or ethnicity of a people. Which to be far religious groups can be under the umbrella called ethnicity given religion has close ties to how people live and their shared experience.
Racism as a word isn't a hard defined word to only describe bigotry against a race. Racism can validly used to describe bigotry against people of a race, ethnicity, creed, nationality or caste.
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On January 09 2015 03:59 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:56 Squat wrote:On January 09 2015 03:54 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 03:12 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:02 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 02:16 Roggay wrote:On January 09 2015 02:01 Maenander wrote:On January 09 2015 01:03 RvB wrote:
Ignoring the hate speech doesn't make it go away. Giving extremists a platform is necessary imo as long as there are people who van give counter arguments and a level headed response. I remember a turkish-german comedian made a good point, when he said, that he sees more Islamists on German TV than moderate Muslims, while they are only a tiny part of the Muslim community in Germany. From what I can tell the Muslims in Germany are on average way more liberal than their counterparts in most islamic countries, and yet people only look at the tiny minority of extremists, because these are the Muslims we hear about in the news. It leads to this giant overreaction in the form of PEGIDA, and it is no coincidence that PEGIDA thrives in regions, where hardly any Muslims are present. Extremists on both sides win the media war, it's a worrying situation. Its been the case in switzerland too. By far the people who whine the most about foreigners and muslims are the one that have the least exposition to them. Not really true, all the people I know from Bruxelles are growing more and more racists toward arabes and muslims people. I got lucky to move in Luxembourg when I was 13 so I'm more tolerant I think, tho I'm not really at ease when I go back to Bruxelles or any big cities in Belgium. It's a fact that area that are more foreigners based are more hostiles toward natives. At least in Belgium and France. (There are like 0 muslim in Luxembourg so I can't really say much tho). That's not really racism, though, is it? If wanting them kicked out of the country because they are considered parasites is not racism Idk what is. Again, who are "them"? If you mean muslims, if cannot be racism by default, since islam is an ideology, not an ethnicity. People tend more and more to mixe arabe and muslims tho. And the vast majorities doesn't even know what is the difference. Anyway, saying that racism isn't in a huge pike currently in big cities like Bruxelles is being totally blind. There are zones that are 100% foreigners. You can't last 5min without seeing a woman with a veil or burqa nowadays there.
How does this equate to racism? And how does a general ignorance of the difference between ethnicity and ideology make it any less wrong? People from the same region of the world all live in the same area of the city, okay, I get that part. Women walk around in veils and burqas, I believe you. I fail to see how this is somehow constituent of racism.
Racism as a word isn't a hard defined word to only describe bigotry against a race. Racism can validly used to describe bigotry against people of a race, ethnicity, creed, nationality or caste.
Actually, yes it is, and no, it cannot. Bigotry and racism are not synonymous. I am probably bigoted against certain ideologies because I find them unfathomably stupid, but I don't care where the people who subscribe to them come from.
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On January 09 2015 03:54 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:12 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:02 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 02:16 Roggay wrote:On January 09 2015 02:01 Maenander wrote:On January 09 2015 01:03 RvB wrote:
Ignoring the hate speech doesn't make it go away. Giving extremists a platform is necessary imo as long as there are people who van give counter arguments and a level headed response. I remember a turkish-german comedian made a good point, when he said, that he sees more Islamists on German TV than moderate Muslims, while they are only a tiny part of the Muslim community in Germany. From what I can tell the Muslims in Germany are on average way more liberal than their counterparts in most islamic countries, and yet people only look at the tiny minority of extremists, because these are the Muslims we hear about in the news. It leads to this giant overreaction in the form of PEGIDA, and it is no coincidence that PEGIDA thrives in regions, where hardly any Muslims are present. Extremists on both sides win the media war, it's a worrying situation. Its been the case in switzerland too. By far the people who whine the most about foreigners and muslims are the one that have the least exposition to them. Not really true, all the people I know from Bruxelles are growing more and more racists toward arabes and muslims people. I got lucky to move in Luxembourg when I was 13 so I'm more tolerant I think, tho I'm not really at ease when I go back to Bruxelles or any big cities in Belgium. It's a fact that area that are more foreigners based are more hostiles toward natives. At least in Belgium and France. (There are like 0 muslim in Luxembourg so I can't really say much tho). That's not really racism, though, is it? If wanting them kicked out of the country because they are considered parasites is not racism Idk what is.
Calling a parasite a parasite isn't racist.
Just as there are a few jihadists giving a bad name to a large group of Muslims, there are a a few racist nutjobs giving a bad name to those of us who have valid concerns and ask for a more open debate on immigration.
I'm sane. I'm pro immigration. I'm pro taking in refugees. I helped cleaning out a Bundeswehr base (Meßstetten, if you want to check) in order for it to be used as a refugee camp. I'm a leftist, active voter, I demonstrated against NPD more than once.
Saying we should address immigration and the overweening, undeserved respect for religion in general and Islam in particular doesn't make me a racist.
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On January 09 2015 03:44 SixStrings wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On January 09 2015 03:30 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:09 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 02:44 Squat wrote:On January 09 2015 00:49 farvacola wrote:
I think the fact that a reactionary conservative is one of the only news hosts willing to interview a man like Choudary speaks volumes and is definitely worth attention. The manner in which radicals and reactionaries feed into one another is something everyone needs to recognize, particularly in France. He has been on similar shows multiple times, defending 9/11, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram etc. I have no idea why, the guy is a run of the mill rabble rouser and loudmouth, with no credentials or substance. He always pops up to say something fatuous and deplorable whenever something like this occurs, and then the hosts shout at him, call him a terrorist and tell him he is a disgrace to his religion. Then they bring him back next week. Derp. And yet he represents the views of a not insignificant portion of Muslims. There are zones in Paris and Brussels in which the law of the land isn't upheld, in which Sharia courts aren't allowed and which law enforcement doesn't even enter. This is no exaggeration. Belgian tax payers literally pay to maintain a zone that is filled with people waiting to harm and subdue them, who don't pay taxes, who are above the law, who breed like rabbits and whose only contact with Belgian society is through the welfare-money the receive. Yet if these issues are addressed, those who dare speak up are ridiculed as right-wing nuts. Using expressions like "breed like rabbits" doesn't help your credibility. That's straight out racist. Yes there are problems, but imho it's blown out of proportion. As was mentioned already, xenophobia is more widespread in areas with less immigrants. Why is that? I lived in a predominately muslim-immigrant area and like 95% of them were decent people. I treated them with respect like anybody else and never had any problems. Like 5% of the people in Germany are muslims. Extremist muslims are a couple of thousand of over 80 million. I don't see the point in changing our laws and way of living because of some guys. It makes no sense. How in the name of all that is holy is 'breed like rabbits' racists? That's just an English idiom for people who have lots of offspring. My aunt and uncle also breed like rabbits and they're the same race I am. It's funny that you never had any problems. I live in a very international city in Germany. I can take a photograph of my mailbox for you, maybe one in five names is German. There are three people named Xhu in my house alone. Most are students, only here for a year, but there's also a lot of Americans whose parents were stationed here, there are tonnes of Eastern Europeans who work here etc and don't get me started on tourists from Japan and China. We all get along splendidly, tourists are how I make my living, ERASMUS students sit next to me in class and are my neighbours. It's like the Melting Pot NYC isn't. That is how integration works properly. Then there's areas dominated by Muslims. Ever been to Neuköln as an infidel?
I won't deny that there are problems. There's is a kinda lost generation of certain immigrants, which is sad and will cause further problems in the future. I also think we need to be harder on certain people. But i don't have a solution. It's a tough topic and makes me afraid a bit. The one thing i know for SURE though is, that the vast majority of the muslims in Germany are decent people and if you treat them like that, they will do so in return.
When i said i lived in a predominantly muslim immigrant area i meant exactly your situation. My house, 5 flats, me and my flatmate were the only Germans. House next door all turkish/arab muslims. Etc. Whole street: 90% 1st-3rd generation immigrants, mostly muslims. It's just a 250k people town though, no comparison to Neuköln, i'm very aware of that.
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On January 09 2015 04:12 Squat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:59 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 03:56 Squat wrote:On January 09 2015 03:54 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 03:12 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:02 Faust852 wrote:On January 09 2015 02:16 Roggay wrote:On January 09 2015 02:01 Maenander wrote:On January 09 2015 01:03 RvB wrote:
Ignoring the hate speech doesn't make it go away. Giving extremists a platform is necessary imo as long as there are people who van give counter arguments and a level headed response. I remember a turkish-german comedian made a good point, when he said, that he sees more Islamists on German TV than moderate Muslims, while they are only a tiny part of the Muslim community in Germany. From what I can tell the Muslims in Germany are on average way more liberal than their counterparts in most islamic countries, and yet people only look at the tiny minority of extremists, because these are the Muslims we hear about in the news. It leads to this giant overreaction in the form of PEGIDA, and it is no coincidence that PEGIDA thrives in regions, where hardly any Muslims are present. Extremists on both sides win the media war, it's a worrying situation. Its been the case in switzerland too. By far the people who whine the most about foreigners and muslims are the one that have the least exposition to them. Not really true, all the people I know from Bruxelles are growing more and more racists toward arabes and muslims people. I got lucky to move in Luxembourg when I was 13 so I'm more tolerant I think, tho I'm not really at ease when I go back to Bruxelles or any big cities in Belgium. It's a fact that area that are more foreigners based are more hostiles toward natives. At least in Belgium and France. (There are like 0 muslim in Luxembourg so I can't really say much tho). That's not really racism, though, is it? If wanting them kicked out of the country because they are considered parasites is not racism Idk what is. Again, who are "them"? If you mean muslims, if cannot be racism by default, since islam is an ideology, not an ethnicity. People tend more and more to mixe arabe and muslims tho. And the vast majorities doesn't even know what is the difference. Anyway, saying that racism isn't in a huge pike currently in big cities like Bruxelles is being totally blind. There are zones that are 100% foreigners. You can't last 5min without seeing a woman with a veil or burqa nowadays there. How does this equate to racism? And how does a general ignorance of the difference between ethnicity and ideology make it any less wrong? People from the same region of the world all live in the same area of the city, okay, I get that part. Women walk around in veils and burqas, I believe you. I fail to see how this is somehow constituent of racism.
I think you misunderstood me. I didn't say that arabes ethnicities are racists (they might be tho) but native considers them as trash and want them out of the country. There isn't a single day when I don't here stuff like "these monkeys made pork forbidden in school, what a bunch of trash", etc...
I think this kind of reaction is excessive racism. Ofc I agree with them on certain points but well...
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On January 09 2015 04:09 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:52 Husnan wrote:On January 09 2015 03:49 Furikawari wrote:On January 09 2015 03:44 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:30 r00ty wrote:On January 09 2015 03:09 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 02:44 Squat wrote:On January 09 2015 00:49 farvacola wrote:
I think the fact that a reactionary conservative is one of the only news hosts willing to interview a man like Choudary speaks volumes and is definitely worth attention. The manner in which radicals and reactionaries feed into one another is something everyone needs to recognize, particularly in France. He has been on similar shows multiple times, defending 9/11, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram etc. I have no idea why, the guy is a run of the mill rabble rouser and loudmouth, with no credentials or substance. He always pops up to say something fatuous and deplorable whenever something like this occurs, and then the hosts shout at him, call him a terrorist and tell him he is a disgrace to his religion. Then they bring him back next week. Derp. And yet he represents the views of a not insignificant portion of Muslims. There are zones in Paris and Brussels in which the law of the land isn't upheld, in which Sharia courts aren't allowed and which law enforcement doesn't even enter. This is no exaggeration. Belgian tax payers literally pay to maintain a zone that is filled with people waiting to harm and subdue them, who don't pay taxes, who are above the law, who breed like rabbits and whose only contact with Belgian society is through the welfare-money the receive. Yet if these issues are addressed, those who dare speak up are ridiculed as right-wing nuts. Using expressions like "breed like rabbits" doesn't help your credibility. That's straight out racist. Yes there are problems, but imho it's blown out of proportion. As was mentioned already, xenophobia is more widespread in areas with less immigrants. Why is that? I lived in a predominately muslim-immigrant area and like 95% of them were decent people. I treated them with respect like anybody else and never had any problems. Like 5% of the people in Germany are muslims. Extremist muslims are a couple of thousand of over 80 million. I don't see the point in changing our laws and way of living because of some guys. It makes no sense. How in the name of all that is holy is 'breed like rabbits' racists? That's just an English idiom for people who have lots of offspring. My aunt and uncle also breed like rabbits and they're the same race I am. It's funny that you never had any problems. I live in a very international city in Germany. I can take a photograph of my mailbox for you, maybe one in five names is German. There are three people named Xhu in my house alone. Most are students, only here for a year, but there's also a lot of Americans whose parents were stationed here, there are tonnes of Eastern Europeans who work here etc and don't get me started on tourists from Japan and China. We all get along splendidly tourists are how I make my living, ERASMUS students sit next to me in class and are my neighbours. It's like the Melting Pot NYC isn't. That is how integration works properly. Here in France it's an expression typically used by racist people about minorities. In France, it's an expression used to mean that people have a lot of kids. An expression that also happens to be used by racists who say that arabs and blacks have more children than whiteys (which is true, by the way) By which measurement is it true? What you heard on TV or at the pub?
http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2011/02/07/01016-20110207ARTFIG00664-la-population-musulmane-en-forte-progression.php
Also, my eyes?
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No religion bash/war. Thanks.
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On January 09 2015 04:27 Husnan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 04:09 OtherWorld wrote:On January 09 2015 03:52 Husnan wrote:On January 09 2015 03:49 Furikawari wrote:On January 09 2015 03:44 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:30 r00ty wrote:On January 09 2015 03:09 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 02:44 Squat wrote:On January 09 2015 00:49 farvacola wrote:
I think the fact that a reactionary conservative is one of the only news hosts willing to interview a man like Choudary speaks volumes and is definitely worth attention. The manner in which radicals and reactionaries feed into one another is something everyone needs to recognize, particularly in France. He has been on similar shows multiple times, defending 9/11, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram etc. I have no idea why, the guy is a run of the mill rabble rouser and loudmouth, with no credentials or substance. He always pops up to say something fatuous and deplorable whenever something like this occurs, and then the hosts shout at him, call him a terrorist and tell him he is a disgrace to his religion. Then they bring him back next week. Derp. And yet he represents the views of a not insignificant portion of Muslims. There are zones in Paris and Brussels in which the law of the land isn't upheld, in which Sharia courts aren't allowed and which law enforcement doesn't even enter. This is no exaggeration. Belgian tax payers literally pay to maintain a zone that is filled with people waiting to harm and subdue them, who don't pay taxes, who are above the law, who breed like rabbits and whose only contact with Belgian society is through the welfare-money the receive. Yet if these issues are addressed, those who dare speak up are ridiculed as right-wing nuts. Using expressions like "breed like rabbits" doesn't help your credibility. That's straight out racist. Yes there are problems, but imho it's blown out of proportion. As was mentioned already, xenophobia is more widespread in areas with less immigrants. Why is that? I lived in a predominately muslim-immigrant area and like 95% of them were decent people. I treated them with respect like anybody else and never had any problems. Like 5% of the people in Germany are muslims. Extremist muslims are a couple of thousand of over 80 million. I don't see the point in changing our laws and way of living because of some guys. It makes no sense. How in the name of all that is holy is 'breed like rabbits' racists? That's just an English idiom for people who have lots of offspring. My aunt and uncle also breed like rabbits and they're the same race I am. It's funny that you never had any problems. I live in a very international city in Germany. I can take a photograph of my mailbox for you, maybe one in five names is German. There are three people named Xhu in my house alone. Most are students, only here for a year, but there's also a lot of Americans whose parents were stationed here, there are tonnes of Eastern Europeans who work here etc and don't get me started on tourists from Japan and China. We all get along splendidly tourists are how I make my living, ERASMUS students sit next to me in class and are my neighbours. It's like the Melting Pot NYC isn't. That is how integration works properly. Here in France it's an expression typically used by racist people about minorities. In France, it's an expression used to mean that people have a lot of kids. An expression that also happens to be used by racists who say that arabs and blacks have more children than whiteys (which is true, by the way) By which measurement is it true? What you heard on TV or at the pub? http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2011/02/07/01016-20110207ARTFIG00664-la-population-musulmane-en-forte-progression.phpAlso, my eyes?
Au sein des pays «à majorité musulmane», la fécondité était en moyenne à 4,3 enfants par femme dans les années 1990. Elle est aujourd'hui à 2,9 enfants par femme et devrait trouver une moyenne de 2,3 enfants par femme en 2030.
Among the countries with a majority of Muslims, fecundity was on average 4.3 children per woman in the 90s. Today it is 2.9 c/w and should be around 2.3 in 2030.
Today in France the average is 2.01 c/w. So yeah if in countries with a majority of Muslims they are only 0.2 above that, I seriously doubt they are way above in France.
And sorry but your eyes are not a reliable source of measurement, because influenced by cultural and social factors.
edit : ok, sorry. I'll stop there.
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On January 09 2015 03:52 Husnan wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 03:49 Furikawari wrote:On January 09 2015 03:44 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:30 r00ty wrote:On January 09 2015 03:09 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 02:44 Squat wrote:On January 09 2015 00:49 farvacola wrote:
I think the fact that a reactionary conservative is one of the only news hosts willing to interview a man like Choudary speaks volumes and is definitely worth attention. The manner in which radicals and reactionaries feed into one another is something everyone needs to recognize, particularly in France. He has been on similar shows multiple times, defending 9/11, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram etc. I have no idea why, the guy is a run of the mill rabble rouser and loudmouth, with no credentials or substance. He always pops up to say something fatuous and deplorable whenever something like this occurs, and then the hosts shout at him, call him a terrorist and tell him he is a disgrace to his religion. Then they bring him back next week. Derp. And yet he represents the views of a not insignificant portion of Muslims. There are zones in Paris and Brussels in which the law of the land isn't upheld, in which Sharia courts aren't allowed and which law enforcement doesn't even enter. This is no exaggeration. Belgian tax payers literally pay to maintain a zone that is filled with people waiting to harm and subdue them, who don't pay taxes, who are above the law, who breed like rabbits and whose only contact with Belgian society is through the welfare-money the receive. Yet if these issues are addressed, those who dare speak up are ridiculed as right-wing nuts. Using expressions like "breed like rabbits" doesn't help your credibility. That's straight out racist. Yes there are problems, but imho it's blown out of proportion. As was mentioned already, xenophobia is more widespread in areas with less immigrants. Why is that? I lived in a predominately muslim-immigrant area and like 95% of them were decent people. I treated them with respect like anybody else and never had any problems. Like 5% of the people in Germany are muslims. Extremist muslims are a couple of thousand of over 80 million. I don't see the point in changing our laws and way of living because of some guys. It makes no sense. How in the name of all that is holy is 'breed like rabbits' racists? That's just an English idiom for people who have lots of offspring. My aunt and uncle also breed like rabbits and they're the same race I am. It's funny that you never had any problems. I live in a very international city in Germany. I can take a photograph of my mailbox for you, maybe one in five names is German. There are three people named Xhu in my house alone. Most are students, only here for a year, but there's also a lot of Americans whose parents were stationed here, there are tonnes of Eastern Europeans who work here etc and don't get me started on tourists from Japan and China. We all get along splendidly tourists are how I make my living, ERASMUS students sit next to me in class and are my neighbours. It's like the Melting Pot NYC isn't. That is how integration works properly. Here in France it's an expression typically used by racist people about minorities. In France, it's an expression used to mean that people have a lot of kids. An expression that also happens to be used by racists who say that arabs and blacks have more children than whiteys (which is true, by the way)
Breed like rabbits is not racist ... What the hell.
On January 09 2015 04:33 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2015 04:27 Husnan wrote:On January 09 2015 04:09 OtherWorld wrote:On January 09 2015 03:52 Husnan wrote:On January 09 2015 03:49 Furikawari wrote:On January 09 2015 03:44 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 03:30 r00ty wrote:On January 09 2015 03:09 SixStrings wrote:On January 09 2015 02:44 Squat wrote:On January 09 2015 00:49 farvacola wrote:
I think the fact that a reactionary conservative is one of the only news hosts willing to interview a man like Choudary speaks volumes and is definitely worth attention. The manner in which radicals and reactionaries feed into one another is something everyone needs to recognize, particularly in France. He has been on similar shows multiple times, defending 9/11, ISIS, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram etc. I have no idea why, the guy is a run of the mill rabble rouser and loudmouth, with no credentials or substance. He always pops up to say something fatuous and deplorable whenever something like this occurs, and then the hosts shout at him, call him a terrorist and tell him he is a disgrace to his religion. Then they bring him back next week. Derp. And yet he represents the views of a not insignificant portion of Muslims. There are zones in Paris and Brussels in which the law of the land isn't upheld, in which Sharia courts aren't allowed and which law enforcement doesn't even enter. This is no exaggeration. Belgian tax payers literally pay to maintain a zone that is filled with people waiting to harm and subdue them, who don't pay taxes, who are above the law, who breed like rabbits and whose only contact with Belgian society is through the welfare-money the receive. Yet if these issues are addressed, those who dare speak up are ridiculed as right-wing nuts. Using expressions like "breed like rabbits" doesn't help your credibility. That's straight out racist. Yes there are problems, but imho it's blown out of proportion. As was mentioned already, xenophobia is more widespread in areas with less immigrants. Why is that? I lived in a predominately muslim-immigrant area and like 95% of them were decent people. I treated them with respect like anybody else and never had any problems. Like 5% of the people in Germany are muslims. Extremist muslims are a couple of thousand of over 80 million. I don't see the point in changing our laws and way of living because of some guys. It makes no sense. How in the name of all that is holy is 'breed like rabbits' racists? That's just an English idiom for people who have lots of offspring. My aunt and uncle also breed like rabbits and they're the same race I am. It's funny that you never had any problems. I live in a very international city in Germany. I can take a photograph of my mailbox for you, maybe one in five names is German. There are three people named Xhu in my house alone. Most are students, only here for a year, but there's also a lot of Americans whose parents were stationed here, there are tonnes of Eastern Europeans who work here etc and don't get me started on tourists from Japan and China. We all get along splendidly tourists are how I make my living, ERASMUS students sit next to me in class and are my neighbours. It's like the Melting Pot NYC isn't. That is how integration works properly. Here in France it's an expression typically used by racist people about minorities. In France, it's an expression used to mean that people have a lot of kids. An expression that also happens to be used by racists who say that arabs and blacks have more children than whiteys (which is true, by the way) By which measurement is it true? What you heard on TV or at the pub? http://www.lefigaro.fr/actualite-france/2011/02/07/01016-20110207ARTFIG00664-la-population-musulmane-en-forte-progression.phpAlso, my eyes? Show nested quote +
Au sein des pays «à majorité musulmane», la fécondité était en moyenne à 4,3 enfants par femme dans les années 1990. Elle est aujourd'hui à 2,9 enfants par femme et devrait trouver une moyenne de 2,3 enfants par femme en 2030.
Among the countries with a majority of Muslims, fecundity was on average 4.3 children per woman in the 90s. Today it is 2.9 c/w and should be around 2.3 in 2030. Today in France the average is 2.01 c/w. So yeah if in countries with a majority of Muslims they are only 0.2 above that, I seriously doubt they are way above in France. And sorry but your eyes are not a reliable source of measurement, because influenced by cultural and social factors. edit : ok, sorry. I'll stop there.
Fecundity in France is pretty even in all social group, between french and immigrants. Also there is a huge number of mixed mariage, so there's hope. Altho, in some part of France (some city in the 93 for exemple), there is a density of black and arabic people that can be frightening : it's called segregation.
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On January 09 2015 04:33 Aeromi wrote:
No religion bash/war. Thanks.
Let's discuss religious terrorism without mentionning religion.
On the fecundity issue, I linked an article that you both didn't read and still insist that I'm talking out of my ass.
It says clearly that the muslim population in France will go from 7.5% of the population now to between 9.8 and 10.9% in 2030.
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EPT
