I think it's great the media's emphasizing that he's not representative of Australian muslims. He's just a crazy idiot. Glad they're not sensationalizing it and whipping up the bogans to a Cronulla Riots 2.0.
Only about 2 hours until sunset in Sydney no? Anyone have some insight as to how night would change the strategic situation?
Ninjas obviously, they're our number two weapon. The last line of defence before we go nuclear and deploy the mighty drop bear.
I GOT THIS
On December 15 2014 15:32 LilClinkin wrote: A lot of unanswered questions. I will say this is convenient for our currently unpopular government, who today are announcing mid-year budget deficit of $40 billion.
I seriously hope noone forgets about this. They got elected on a stop the boats platform and it would be terrible if they get a popularity spike due to being hardline on foreigners. We can't afford for this government to stay another term
On December 15 2014 18:17 paralleluniverse wrote: This is a despicable and outrageous act of terror. I've noticed that the cowardly Australian press is trying so hard to play down the role of Islam despite the hostage taker flying a Islamic flag, is demanding an ISIS flag in exchange for 1 hostage (it's likely that the Islamic flag was used as a substitute because it's hard to acquire an ISIS flag), and according to a Facebook post from a hostage, the gunman says that he's associated with the "Islamic State of Australia". As far as I know, there's no such thing as the "Islamic State of Australia", so it is likely that this is the work of a lone religious lunatic. While the actions of the gunman doesn't represent all Muslims, to suggest that there's no connection with Islam at all, as the press and many others on social media are trying so hard to do, is delusional. When a gunman specifically makes a statement with a flag that reads "There is no God but Allah" and religiously-motivated demands, clearly he's not motivated by his religion at all. We saw exactly the same sort of deranged denial from "progressives" when Lee Rigby was killed on the streets of London while his murderer was yelling "Allahu Akbar" and people also had their heads in the sand on the role of Islam.
It is quite surreal hearing about this sort of terrible event in your own country. Another unfortunate side effect is that it has distracted from MYEFO, which has revealed that the budget deficit has blown out by a further $67B over 2014-2017 by a government which lied about a "budget emergency" under Labor, is obsessed with fixing the deficit that they've blown up, is spending even more money on school chaplaincies, while doing absolutely nothing to address the unemployment rate that is at a 12 year high
wrong to say this is a muslim problem. equally as wrong not to say that this is an islamist problem.
with regards to your second paragraph, i guess this is a good day to bury bad news
How is this not a muslim problem? Of course not all muslims are terrorists, but at the same time all these terrorists are muslims. This is a problem that muslim communities should be fighting against themselves, these loonies don't just pop out of anywhere. There is no out-of-the-box ready-to-use terrorist, it takes years to get indoctrinated to the point where you do something like this. Where are this guys friends and family? No one in the muslim community noticed anything about a group of muslims acting radicalized?
These communities keep very close, why make the choice to turn a blind eye to bad apples in your community? We can do nothing until the muslim communities start weeding out their own poison. Of course we should help them as much as possible but this is their fight, not ours.
edit: Just like a bunch of christians going around killing people and calling for a 5th crusade would be a christian problem.
On December 15 2014 18:17 paralleluniverse wrote: This is a despicable and outrageous act of terror. I've noticed that the cowardly Australian press is trying so hard to play down the role of Islam despite the hostage taker flying a Islamic flag, is demanding an ISIS flag in exchange for 1 hostage (it's likely that the Islamic flag was used as a substitute because it's hard to acquire an ISIS flag), and according to a Facebook post from a hostage, the gunman says that he's associated with the "Islamic State of Australia". As far as I know, there's no such thing as the "Islamic State of Australia", so it is likely that this is the work of a lone religious lunatic. While the actions of the gunman doesn't represent all Muslims, to suggest that there's no connection with Islam at all, as the press and many others on social media are trying so hard to do, is delusional. When a gunman specifically makes a statement with a flag that reads "There is no God but Allah" and religiously-motivated demands, clearly he's not motivated by his religion at all. We saw exactly the same sort of deranged denial from "progressives" when Lee Rigby was killed on the streets of London while his murderer was yelling "Allahu Akbar" and people also had their heads in the sand on the role of Islam.
It is quite surreal hearing about this sort of terrible event in your own country. Another unfortunate side effect is that it has distracted from MYEFO, which has revealed that the budget deficit has blown out by a further $67B over 2014-2017 by a government which lied about a "budget emergency" under Labor, is obsessed with fixing the deficit that they've blown up, is spending even more money on school chaplaincies, while doing absolutely nothing to address the unemployment rate that is at a 12 year high.
The gunman hasn't shot anyone yet, so I think there's hope that this will end without anyone being killed.
Earlier in the day, mainstream outlets like channel 7 and 9 were speculating wildly about connections to IS, Al-Quaeda, and Jemaah Islamiyah in Indonesia, even though there was and still is no hard evidence to suggest what the affiliations of this individual are. I think in times like this, it is very important to NOT speculate, because media outlets are very powerful and their speculations can be more harmful and long-lasting than the acts of the individual perpetrating the crimes. The most extreme example of sensationalism I've seen today is in image below (screen cap from Daily Telegraph Sydney):
The role of media is to keep the public informed on world events, and I don't feel comfortable with the way our mainstream media has handled this situation. I also don't feel comfortable with the ongoing lack of information we have regarding the motivations of this event. Some of our major media outlets have been informed what the demands of this individual are, and are keeping quiet. I understand if there is a need for public safety to maintain silence, however this goes both ways. For instance, we still don't know whether the hostages escaped or were released. Why is that? If you can explain a legitimate reason why disseminating this specific piece of information would jeopardise the safety of civilians or intelligence sources of the authorities, please let me know.
Personally, I feel that there is a deliberate lack of information sharing to the public to purposefully fuel our fears and speculations. I wish I could feel more trusting of our authorities and media, but I just don't.
PS. If any of my info in this post is out-of-date, I apologise
On December 15 2014 18:17 paralleluniverse wrote: This is a despicable and outrageous act of terror. I've noticed that the cowardly Australian press is trying so hard to play down the role of Islam despite the hostage taker flying a Islamic flag, is demanding an ISIS flag in exchange for 1 hostage (it's likely that the Islamic flag was used as a substitute because it's hard to acquire an ISIS flag), and according to a Facebook post from a hostage, the gunman says that he's associated with the "Islamic State of Australia". As far as I know, there's no such thing as the "Islamic State of Australia", so it is likely that this is the work of a lone religious lunatic. While the actions of the gunman doesn't represent all Muslims, to suggest that there's no connection with Islam at all, as the press and many others on social media are trying so hard to do, is delusional. When a gunman specifically makes a statement with a flag that reads "There is no God but Allah" and religiously-motivated demands, clearly he's not motivated by his religion at all. We saw exactly the same sort of deranged denial from "progressives" when Lee Rigby was killed on the streets of London while his murderer was yelling "Allahu Akbar" and people also had their heads in the sand on the role of Islam.
It is quite surreal hearing about this sort of terrible event in your own country. Another unfortunate side effect is that it has distracted from MYEFO, which has revealed that the budget deficit has blown out by a further $67B over 2014-2017 by a government which lied about a "budget emergency" under Labor, is obsessed with fixing the deficit that they've blown up, is spending even more money on school chaplaincies, while doing absolutely nothing to address the unemployment rate that is at a 12 year high
wrong to say this is a muslim problem. equally as wrong not to say that this is an islamist problem.
with regards to your second paragraph, i guess this is a good day to bury bad news
How is this not a muslim problem? Of course not all muslims are terrorists, but at the same time all these terrorists are muslims. This is a problem that muslim communities should be fighting against themselves, these loonies don't just pop out of anywhere. There is no out-of-the-box ready-to-use terrorist, it takes years to get indoctrinated to the point where you do something like this. Where are this guys friends and family? No one in the muslim community noticed anything about a group of muslims acting radicalized?
These communities keep very close, why make the choice to turn a blind eye to bad apples in your community? We can do nothing until the muslim communities start weeding out their own poison. Of course we should help them as much as possible but this is their fight, not ours.
edit: Just like a bunch of christians going around killing people and calling for a 5th crusade would be a christian problem.
Yes, because there is a giant muslim convention where they all get together and can monitor everyone who calls themselves a muslim. *rolls eyes*
On December 15 2014 18:17 paralleluniverse wrote: This is a despicable and outrageous act of terror. I've noticed that the cowardly Australian press is trying so hard to play down the role of Islam despite the hostage taker flying a Islamic flag, is demanding an ISIS flag in exchange for 1 hostage (it's likely that the Islamic flag was used as a substitute because it's hard to acquire an ISIS flag), and according to a Facebook post from a hostage, the gunman says that he's associated with the "Islamic State of Australia". As far as I know, there's no such thing as the "Islamic State of Australia", so it is likely that this is the work of a lone religious lunatic. While the actions of the gunman doesn't represent all Muslims, to suggest that there's no connection with Islam at all, as the press and many others on social media are trying so hard to do, is delusional. When a gunman specifically makes a statement with a flag that reads "There is no God but Allah" and religiously-motivated demands, clearly he's not motivated by his religion at all. We saw exactly the same sort of deranged denial from "progressives" when Lee Rigby was killed on the streets of London while his murderer was yelling "Allahu Akbar" and people also had their heads in the sand on the role of Islam.
It is quite surreal hearing about this sort of terrible event in your own country. Another unfortunate side effect is that it has distracted from MYEFO, which has revealed that the budget deficit has blown out by a further $67B over 2014-2017 by a government which lied about a "budget emergency" under Labor, is obsessed with fixing the deficit that they've blown up, is spending even more money on school chaplaincies, while doing absolutely nothing to address the unemployment rate that is at a 12 year high
wrong to say this is a muslim problem. equally as wrong not to say that this is an islamist problem.
with regards to your second paragraph, i guess this is a good day to bury bad news
How is this not a muslim problem? Of course not all muslims are terrorists, but at the same time all these terrorists are muslims. This is a problem that muslim communities should be fighting against themselves, these loonies don't just pop out of anywhere. There is no out-of-the-box ready-to-use terrorist, it takes years to get indoctrinated to the point where you do something like this. Where are this guys friends and family? No one in the muslim community noticed anything about a group of muslims acting radicalized?
These communities keep very close, why make the choice to turn a blind eye to bad apples in your community? We can do nothing until the muslim communities start weeding out their own poison. Of course we should help them as much as possible but this is their fight, not ours.
edit: Just like a bunch of christians going around killing people and calling for a 5th crusade would be a christian problem.
Yes, because there is a giant muslim convention where they all get together and can monitor everyone who calls themselves a muslim. *rolls eyes*
On December 15 2014 18:17 paralleluniverse wrote: This is a despicable and outrageous act of terror. I've noticed that the cowardly Australian press is trying so hard to play down the role of Islam despite the hostage taker flying a Islamic flag, is demanding an ISIS flag in exchange for 1 hostage (it's likely that the Islamic flag was used as a substitute because it's hard to acquire an ISIS flag), and according to a Facebook post from a hostage, the gunman says that he's associated with the "Islamic State of Australia". As far as I know, there's no such thing as the "Islamic State of Australia", so it is likely that this is the work of a lone religious lunatic. While the actions of the gunman doesn't represent all Muslims, to suggest that there's no connection with Islam at all, as the press and many others on social media are trying so hard to do, is delusional. When a gunman specifically makes a statement with a flag that reads "There is no God but Allah" and religiously-motivated demands, clearly he's not motivated by his religion at all. We saw exactly the same sort of deranged denial from "progressives" when Lee Rigby was killed on the streets of London while his murderer was yelling "Allahu Akbar" and people also had their heads in the sand on the role of Islam.
It is quite surreal hearing about this sort of terrible event in your own country. Another unfortunate side effect is that it has distracted from MYEFO, which has revealed that the budget deficit has blown out by a further $67B over 2014-2017 by a government which lied about a "budget emergency" under Labor, is obsessed with fixing the deficit that they've blown up, is spending even more money on school chaplaincies, while doing absolutely nothing to address the unemployment rate that is at a 12 year high.
The gunman hasn't shot anyone yet, so I think there's hope that this will end without anyone being killed.
Earlier in the day, mainstream outlets like channel 7 and 9 were speculating wildly about connections to IS, Al-Quaeda, and Jemaah Islamiyah in Indonesia, even though there was and still is no hard evidence to suggest what the affiliations of this individual are. I think in times like this, it is very important to NOT speculate, because media outlets are very powerful and their speculations can be more harmful and long-lasting than the acts of the individual perpetrating the crimes. The most extreme example of sensationalism I've seen today is in image below (screen cap from Daily Telegraph Sydney):
The role of media is to keep the public informed on world events, and I don't feel comfortable with the way our mainstream media has handled this situation. I also don't feel comfortable with the ongoing lack of information we have regarding the motivations of this event. Some of our major media outlets have been informed what the demands of this individual are, and are keeping quiet. I understand if there is a need for public safety to maintain silence, however this goes both ways. For instance, we still don't know whether the hostages escaped or were released. Why is that? If you can explain a legitimate reason why disseminating this specific piece of information would jeopardise the safety of civilians or intelligence sources of the authorities, please let me know.
Personally, I feel that there is a deliberate lack of information sharing to the public to purposefully fuel our fears and speculations. I wish I could feel more trusting of our authorities and media, but I just don't.
PS. If any of my info in this post is out-of-date, I apologise
It's completely understandable that there's a lack of information out about this and an unwillingness to disclose information from responsible media outlets. This guy is clearly monitoring/exploiting traditional and social media so controlling information as to not confirm his tactics are working is important. Additionally, not much good is done if media report on the existence of 2 other bombs in Sydney (in addition to 2 in the cafe, supposedly) particularly when police have swept the area and have not found anything.
On December 15 2014 18:17 paralleluniverse wrote: This is a despicable and outrageous act of terror. I've noticed that the cowardly Australian press is trying so hard to play down the role of Islam despite the hostage taker flying a Islamic flag, is demanding an ISIS flag in exchange for 1 hostage (it's likely that the Islamic flag was used as a substitute because it's hard to acquire an ISIS flag), and according to a Facebook post from a hostage, the gunman says that he's associated with the "Islamic State of Australia". As far as I know, there's no such thing as the "Islamic State of Australia", so it is likely that this is the work of a lone religious lunatic. While the actions of the gunman doesn't represent all Muslims, to suggest that there's no connection with Islam at all, as the press and many others on social media are trying so hard to do, is delusional. When a gunman specifically makes a statement with a flag that reads "There is no God but Allah" and religiously-motivated demands, clearly he's not motivated by his religion at all. We saw exactly the same sort of deranged denial from "progressives" when Lee Rigby was killed on the streets of London while his murderer was yelling "Allahu Akbar" and people also had their heads in the sand on the role of Islam.
It is quite surreal hearing about this sort of terrible event in your own country. Another unfortunate side effect is that it has distracted from MYEFO, which has revealed that the budget deficit has blown out by a further $67B over 2014-2017 by a government which lied about a "budget emergency" under Labor, is obsessed with fixing the deficit that they've blown up, is spending even more money on school chaplaincies, while doing absolutely nothing to address the unemployment rate that is at a 12 year high.
The gunman hasn't shot anyone yet, so I think there's hope that this will end without anyone being killed.
Earlier in the day, mainstream outlets like channel 7 and 9 were speculating wildly about connections to IS, Al-Quaeda, and Jemaah Islamiyah in Indonesia, even though there was and still is no hard evidence to suggest what the affiliations of this individual are. I think in times like this, it is very important to NOT speculate, because media outlets are very powerful and their speculations can be more harmful and long-lasting than the acts of the individual perpetrating the crimes. The most extreme example of sensationalism I've seen today is in image below (screen cap from Daily Telegraph Sydney):
The role of media is to keep the public informed on world events, and I don't feel comfortable with the way our mainstream media has handled this situation. I also don't feel comfortable with the ongoing lack of information we have regarding the motivations of this event. Some of our major media outlets have been informed what the demands of this individual are, and are keeping quiet. I understand if there is a need for public safety to maintain silence, however this goes both ways. For instance, we still don't know whether the hostages escaped or were released. Why is that? If you can explain a legitimate reason why disseminating this specific piece of information would jeopardise the safety of civilians or intelligence sources of the authorities, please let me know.
Personally, I feel that there is a deliberate lack of information sharing to the public to purposefully fuel our fears and speculations. I wish I could feel more trusting of our authorities and media, but I just don't.
PS. If any of my info in this post is out-of-date, I apologise
It's completely understandable that there's a lack of information out about this and an unwillingness to disclose information from responsible media outlets. This guy is clearly monitoring/exploiting traditional and social media so controlling information as to not confirm his tactics are working is important. Additionally, not much good is done if media report on the existence of 2 other bombs in Sydney (in addition to 2 in the cafe) particularly when police have swept the area and have not found anything.
I understand why certain info would need to be kept undisclosed. However, a particular piece of info that the NSW Deputy Police Commissioner wouldn't disclose does confuse me. She wouldn't disclose whether the hostages were released or escaped on their own. I just don't see how this sort of information is a public safety issue?
On December 15 2014 18:31 ControlMonkey wrote: I don't see the press denying he has religious motivations, that is why they are also giving plenty of time to Muslim leaders to distance themselves from this guy. They have reported the facts, they are avoiding speculation.
Yeah kinda weird to watch from an American perspective. Of course I'm just watching one channel so I don't know what the more slanted news stations are like (I just presume Australia has Fox News/MSNBC type stations (kinda feel like I'm watching CNN [I actually am on another screen])
They seem to be doing a good job showing that it is being condemned by Muslims in their community and around the world. I hope no one gets hurt as a result of this inside the shop or the Muslims in the community.
the only dumb thing i've seen the australian press done is the daily telegraph and it's 2pm 'edition' headline (not that i'm actually surprised they're that fucking retarded to do something like that in the first place)
On December 15 2014 18:17 paralleluniverse wrote: This is a despicable and outrageous act of terror. I've noticed that the cowardly Australian press is trying so hard to play down the role of Islam despite the hostage taker flying a Islamic flag, is demanding an ISIS flag in exchange for 1 hostage (it's likely that the Islamic flag was used as a substitute because it's hard to acquire an ISIS flag), and according to a Facebook post from a hostage, the gunman says that he's associated with the "Islamic State of Australia". As far as I know, there's no such thing as the "Islamic State of Australia", so it is likely that this is the work of a lone religious lunatic. While the actions of the gunman doesn't represent all Muslims, to suggest that there's no connection with Islam at all, as the press and many others on social media are trying so hard to do, is delusional. When a gunman specifically makes a statement with a flag that reads "There is no God but Allah" and religiously-motivated demands, clearly he's not motivated by his religion at all. We saw exactly the same sort of deranged denial from "progressives" when Lee Rigby was killed on the streets of London while his murderer was yelling "Allahu Akbar" and people also had their heads in the sand on the role of Islam.
It is quite surreal hearing about this sort of terrible event in your own country. Another unfortunate side effect is that it has distracted from MYEFO, which has revealed that the budget deficit has blown out by a further $67B over 2014-2017 by a government which lied about a "budget emergency" under Labor, is obsessed with fixing the deficit that they've blown up, is spending even more money on school chaplaincies, while doing absolutely nothing to address the unemployment rate that is at a 12 year high.
The gunman hasn't shot anyone yet, so I think there's hope that this will end without anyone being killed.
Earlier in the day, mainstream outlets like channel 7 and 9 were speculating wildly about connections to IS, Al-Quaeda, and Jemaah Islamiyah in Indonesia, even though there was and still is no hard evidence to suggest what the affiliations of this individual are. I think in times like this, it is very important to NOT speculate, because media outlets are very powerful and their speculations can be more harmful and long-lasting than the acts of the individual perpetrating the crimes. The most extreme example of sensationalism I've seen today is in image below (screen cap from Daily Telegraph Sydney):
The role of media is to keep the public informed on world events, and I don't feel comfortable with the way our mainstream media has handled this situation. I also don't feel comfortable with the ongoing lack of information we have regarding the motivations of this event. Some of our major media outlets have been informed what the demands of this individual are, and are keeping quiet. I understand if there is a need for public safety to maintain silence, however this goes both ways. For instance, we still don't know whether the hostages escaped or were released. Why is that? If you can explain a legitimate reason why disseminating this specific piece of information would jeopardise the safety of civilians or intelligence sources of the authorities, please let me know.
Personally, I feel that there is a deliberate lack of information sharing to the public to purposefully fuel our fears and speculations. I wish I could feel more trusting of our authorities and media, but I just don't.
PS. If any of my info in this post is out-of-date, I apologise
It's completely understandable that there's a lack of information out about this and an unwillingness to disclose information from responsible media outlets. This guy is clearly monitoring/exploiting traditional and social media so controlling information as to not confirm his tactics are working is important. Additionally, not much good is done if media report on the existence of 2 other bombs in Sydney (in addition to 2 in the cafe) particularly when police have swept the area and have not found anything.
I understand why certain info would need to be kept undisclosed. However, a particular piece of info that the NSW Deputy Police Commissioner wouldn't disclose does confuse me. She wouldn't disclose whether the hostages were released or escaped on their own. I just don't see how this sort of information is a public safety issue?
It's difficult to tell because we dont know the negotiating methods employed. From what I can guess from what's been released, some of the hostages escaped (reports of the gunman being visibly annoyed when they escaped) while others appear to have been released (as one of them had to go to hospital for a preexisting condition) which suggests there was some negotiation involved with that. I would guess that this information would be made available after the siege, since if people learned that police were giving into concessions in exchange for hostages that might provoke the public to either (a) condemn for giving into terrorism, (b) plead with police to give into further demands. Neither of those are particularly good things to have while the siege is ongoing.
On December 15 2014 18:17 paralleluniverse wrote: This is a despicable and outrageous act of terror. I've noticed that the cowardly Australian press is trying so hard to play down the role of Islam despite the hostage taker flying a Islamic flag, is demanding an ISIS flag in exchange for 1 hostage (it's likely that the Islamic flag was used as a substitute because it's hard to acquire an ISIS flag), and according to a Facebook post from a hostage, the gunman says that he's associated with the "Islamic State of Australia". As far as I know, there's no such thing as the "Islamic State of Australia", so it is likely that this is the work of a lone religious lunatic. While the actions of the gunman doesn't represent all Muslims, to suggest that there's no connection with Islam at all, as the press and many others on social media are trying so hard to do, is delusional. When a gunman specifically makes a statement with a flag that reads "There is no God but Allah" and religiously-motivated demands, clearly he's not motivated by his religion at all. We saw exactly the same sort of deranged denial from "progressives" when Lee Rigby was killed on the streets of London while his murderer was yelling "Allahu Akbar" and people also had their heads in the sand on the role of Islam.
It is quite surreal hearing about this sort of terrible event in your own country. Another unfortunate side effect is that it has distracted from MYEFO, which has revealed that the budget deficit has blown out by a further $67B over 2014-2017 by a government which lied about a "budget emergency" under Labor, is obsessed with fixing the deficit that they've blown up, is spending even more money on school chaplaincies, while doing absolutely nothing to address the unemployment rate that is at a 12 year high.
The gunman hasn't shot anyone yet, so I think there's hope that this will end without anyone being killed.
Earlier in the day, mainstream outlets like channel 7 and 9 were speculating wildly about connections to IS, Al-Quaeda, and Jemaah Islamiyah in Indonesia, even though there was and still is no hard evidence to suggest what the affiliations of this individual are. I think in times like this, it is very important to NOT speculate, because media outlets are very powerful and their speculations can be more harmful and long-lasting than the acts of the individual perpetrating the crimes. The most extreme example of sensationalism I've seen today is in image below (screen cap from Daily Telegraph Sydney):
The role of media is to keep the public informed on world events, and I don't feel comfortable with the way our mainstream media has handled this situation. I also don't feel comfortable with the ongoing lack of information we have regarding the motivations of this event. Some of our major media outlets have been informed what the demands of this individual are, and are keeping quiet. I understand if there is a need for public safety to maintain silence, however this goes both ways. For instance, we still don't know whether the hostages escaped or were released. Why is that? If you can explain a legitimate reason why disseminating this specific piece of information would jeopardise the safety of civilians or intelligence sources of the authorities, please let me know.
Personally, I feel that there is a deliberate lack of information sharing to the public to purposefully fuel our fears and speculations. I wish I could feel more trusting of our authorities and media, but I just don't.
PS. If any of my info in this post is out-of-date, I apologise
It's completely understandable that there's a lack of information out about this and an unwillingness to disclose information from responsible media outlets. This guy is clearly monitoring/exploiting traditional and social media so controlling information as to not confirm his tactics are working is important. Additionally, not much good is done if media report on the existence of 2 other bombs in Sydney (in addition to 2 in the cafe) particularly when police have swept the area and have not found anything.
I understand why certain info would need to be kept undisclosed. However, a particular piece of info that the NSW Deputy Police Commissioner wouldn't disclose does confuse me. She wouldn't disclose whether the hostages were released or escaped on their own. I just don't see how this sort of information is a public safety issue?
conversely, how is this information of any relevance to the public? we should just be thankful that those people are safe
On December 15 2014 18:31 ControlMonkey wrote: I don't see the press denying he has religious motivations, that is why they are also giving plenty of time to Muslim leaders to distance themselves from this guy. They have reported the facts, they are avoiding speculation.
Yeah kinda weird to watch from an American perspective. Of course I'm just watching one channel so I don't know what the more slanted news stations are like (I just presume Australia has Fox News/MSNBC type stations (kinda feel like I'm watching CNN [I actually am on another screen])
They seem to be doing a good job showing that it is being condemned by Muslims in their community and around the world. I hope no one gets hurt as a result of this inside the shop or the Muslims in the community.
This is a link to Australian news feed from ABC. They're a relatively neutral outlet. Channel 7 9 and 10 are more like the sensationalised Fox News. However, the viewership for these channels is larger than for ABC =(
On December 15 2014 18:17 paralleluniverse wrote: This is a despicable and outrageous act of terror. I've noticed that the cowardly Australian press is trying so hard to play down the role of Islam despite the hostage taker flying a Islamic flag, is demanding an ISIS flag in exchange for 1 hostage (it's likely that the Islamic flag was used as a substitute because it's hard to acquire an ISIS flag), and according to a Facebook post from a hostage, the gunman says that he's associated with the "Islamic State of Australia". As far as I know, there's no such thing as the "Islamic State of Australia", so it is likely that this is the work of a lone religious lunatic. While the actions of the gunman doesn't represent all Muslims, to suggest that there's no connection with Islam at all, as the press and many others on social media are trying so hard to do, is delusional. When a gunman specifically makes a statement with a flag that reads "There is no God but Allah" and religiously-motivated demands, clearly he's not motivated by his religion at all. We saw exactly the same sort of deranged denial from "progressives" when Lee Rigby was killed on the streets of London while his murderer was yelling "Allahu Akbar" and people also had their heads in the sand on the role of Islam.
It is quite surreal hearing about this sort of terrible event in your own country. Another unfortunate side effect is that it has distracted from MYEFO, which has revealed that the budget deficit has blown out by a further $67B over 2014-2017 by a government which lied about a "budget emergency" under Labor, is obsessed with fixing the deficit that they've blown up, is spending even more money on school chaplaincies, while doing absolutely nothing to address the unemployment rate that is at a 12 year high.
The gunman hasn't shot anyone yet, so I think there's hope that this will end without anyone being killed.
Earlier in the day, mainstream outlets like channel 7 and 9 were speculating wildly about connections to IS, Al-Quaeda, and Jemaah Islamiyah in Indonesia, even though there was and still is no hard evidence to suggest what the affiliations of this individual are. I think in times like this, it is very important to NOT speculate, because media outlets are very powerful and their speculations can be more harmful and long-lasting than the acts of the individual perpetrating the crimes. The most extreme example of sensationalism I've seen today is in image below (screen cap from Daily Telegraph Sydney):
The role of media is to keep the public informed on world events, and I don't feel comfortable with the way our mainstream media has handled this situation. I also don't feel comfortable with the ongoing lack of information we have regarding the motivations of this event. Some of our major media outlets have been informed what the demands of this individual are, and are keeping quiet. I understand if there is a need for public safety to maintain silence, however this goes both ways. For instance, we still don't know whether the hostages escaped or were released. Why is that? If you can explain a legitimate reason why disseminating this specific piece of information would jeopardise the safety of civilians or intelligence sources of the authorities, please let me know.
Personally, I feel that there is a deliberate lack of information sharing to the public to purposefully fuel our fears and speculations. I wish I could feel more trusting of our authorities and media, but I just don't.
PS. If any of my info in this post is out-of-date, I apologise
It's completely understandable that there's a lack of information out about this and an unwillingness to disclose information from responsible media outlets. This guy is clearly monitoring/exploiting traditional and social media so controlling information as to not confirm his tactics are working is important. Additionally, not much good is done if media report on the existence of 2 other bombs in Sydney (in addition to 2 in the cafe) particularly when police have swept the area and have not found anything.
I understand why certain info would need to be kept undisclosed. However, a particular piece of info that the NSW Deputy Police Commissioner wouldn't disclose does confuse me. She wouldn't disclose whether the hostages were released or escaped on their own. I just don't see how this sort of information is a public safety issue?
It's difficult to tell because we dont know the negotiating methods employed. From what I can guess from what's been released, some of the hostages escaped (reports of the gunman being visibly annoyed when they escaped) while others appear to have been released (as one of them had to go to hospital for a preexisting condition) which suggests there was some negotiation involved with that. I would guess that this information would be made available after the siege, since if people learned that police were giving into concessions in exchange for hostages that might provoke the public to either (a) condemn for giving into terrorism, (b) plead with police to give into further demands. Neither of those are particularly good things to have while the siege is ongoing.
If they did escape and they reported that they escaped it may encourage more hostages to try to escape and if he did actually have a bomb it could spook him and cause him to detonate it, just one thought though. If the hostages think he may have negotiated for their release they won't be encouraged to do anything rash. Just another angle.
I have a pretty good idea about how this is going to go down but I don't want to 'put it out there' and spoil anything.
On December 15 2014 18:17 paralleluniverse wrote: This is a despicable and outrageous act of terror. I've noticed that the cowardly Australian press is trying so hard to play down the role of Islam despite the hostage taker flying a Islamic flag, is demanding an ISIS flag in exchange for 1 hostage (it's likely that the Islamic flag was used as a substitute because it's hard to acquire an ISIS flag), and according to a Facebook post from a hostage, the gunman says that he's associated with the "Islamic State of Australia". As far as I know, there's no such thing as the "Islamic State of Australia", so it is likely that this is the work of a lone religious lunatic. While the actions of the gunman doesn't represent all Muslims, to suggest that there's no connection with Islam at all, as the press and many others on social media are trying so hard to do, is delusional. When a gunman specifically makes a statement with a flag that reads "There is no God but Allah" and religiously-motivated demands, clearly he's not motivated by his religion at all. We saw exactly the same sort of deranged denial from "progressives" when Lee Rigby was killed on the streets of London while his murderer was yelling "Allahu Akbar" and people also had their heads in the sand on the role of Islam.
It is quite surreal hearing about this sort of terrible event in your own country. Another unfortunate side effect is that it has distracted from MYEFO, which has revealed that the budget deficit has blown out by a further $67B over 2014-2017 by a government which lied about a "budget emergency" under Labor, is obsessed with fixing the deficit that they've blown up, is spending even more money on school chaplaincies, while doing absolutely nothing to address the unemployment rate that is at a 12 year high
wrong to say this is a muslim problem. equally as wrong not to say that this is an islamist problem.
with regards to your second paragraph, i guess this is a good day to bury bad news
How is this not a muslim problem? Of course not all muslims are terrorists, but at the same time all these terrorists are muslims. This is a problem that muslim communities should be fighting against themselves, these loonies don't just pop out of anywhere. There is no out-of-the-box ready-to-use terrorist, it takes years to get indoctrinated to the point where you do something like this. Where are this guys friends and family? No one in the muslim community noticed anything about a group of muslims acting radicalized?
These communities keep very close, why make the choice to turn a blind eye to bad apples in your community? We can do nothing until the muslim communities start weeding out their own poison. Of course we should help them as much as possible but this is their fight, not ours.
edit: Just like a bunch of christians going around killing people and calling for a 5th crusade would be a christian problem.
Yes, because there is a giant muslim convention where they all get together and can monitor everyone who calls themselves a muslim. *rolls eyes*
I lived in Australia for 12 years, anyone who wanted to be a part of, or felt proud to be a Serb was known to the entire community, everybody. Most diaspora communities know a lot about their own people (you know someone who knows someone ect.), of course you can chose to distance yourself from your own people or just not care. But I don't see how you can become a radical 'xy' by not caring about 'xy'.
Until muslims themselves go into full inquisition mode and burn all these people bringing shame on their community/religion this kind of organized group terrorism will always be there. Not much you can do when its one lone crazy (in general, not just talking about muslims), its the groups that can be broken and cleaned.
On December 15 2014 18:17 paralleluniverse wrote: This is a despicable and outrageous act of terror. I've noticed that the cowardly Australian press is trying so hard to play down the role of Islam despite the hostage taker flying a Islamic flag, is demanding an ISIS flag in exchange for 1 hostage (it's likely that the Islamic flag was used as a substitute because it's hard to acquire an ISIS flag), and according to a Facebook post from a hostage, the gunman says that he's associated with the "Islamic State of Australia". As far as I know, there's no such thing as the "Islamic State of Australia", so it is likely that this is the work of a lone religious lunatic. While the actions of the gunman doesn't represent all Muslims, to suggest that there's no connection with Islam at all, as the press and many others on social media are trying so hard to do, is delusional. When a gunman specifically makes a statement with a flag that reads "There is no God but Allah" and religiously-motivated demands, clearly he's not motivated by his religion at all. We saw exactly the same sort of deranged denial from "progressives" when Lee Rigby was killed on the streets of London while his murderer was yelling "Allahu Akbar" and people also had their heads in the sand on the role of Islam.
It is quite surreal hearing about this sort of terrible event in your own country. Another unfortunate side effect is that it has distracted from MYEFO, which has revealed that the budget deficit has blown out by a further $67B over 2014-2017 by a government which lied about a "budget emergency" under Labor, is obsessed with fixing the deficit that they've blown up, is spending even more money on school chaplaincies, while doing absolutely nothing to address the unemployment rate that is at a 12 year high
wrong to say this is a muslim problem. equally as wrong not to say that this is an islamist problem.
with regards to your second paragraph, i guess this is a good day to bury bad news
How is this not a muslim problem? Of course not all muslims are terrorists, but at the same time all these terrorists are muslims. This is a problem that muslim communities should be fighting against themselves, these loonies don't just pop out of anywhere. There is no out-of-the-box ready-to-use terrorist, it takes years to get indoctrinated to the point where you do something like this. Where are this guys friends and family? No one in the muslim community noticed anything about a group of muslims acting radicalized?
These communities keep very close, why make the choice to turn a blind eye to bad apples in your community? We can do nothing until the muslim communities start weeding out their own poison. Of course we should help them as much as possible but this is their fight, not ours.
edit: Just like a bunch of christians going around killing people and calling for a 5th crusade would be a christian problem.
Yes, because there is a giant muslim convention where they all get together and can monitor everyone who calls themselves a muslim. *rolls eyes*
I believe the convention is called "ramadan" which they meet up in Mecca right? Australians can be very racist i hear? Don't most Asians in Australia have a very hard time? Not like i want to derail the thread but maybe this isn't a muslim/terrorist guy but a guy who has been pushed this way from the time he has had? I don't know just thinking.
Seems like he is a few pennies short of an Aussie $ though
EPT
