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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On May 20 2017 00:45 nitram wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2017 23:46 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
To be fair to bardtown there are worrying aspects to BLM that should be reported, but in this case you can hardly infer that the video shown is representative. Thats blm in a nutshell. Here in Canada, they were calling Trudeau a white supremacist.
That is likely the only way they will ever make headlines in Canada. You see more varied coverage of BLM protests in local papers and news network. They are community protests that are trying to address specific problems within their specific communities in the US. Much like the civil rights movement in the US, it is a large number of factions with a common theme spread across the country.
On May 20 2017 00:46 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2017 23:56 TheDwf wrote:On May 19 2017 23:33 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:25 Simberto wrote:
It is easy to find the stupidest person who supports something, and claim that they are representatitve of the whole thing.
Should i now look for the stupidest brexiter that i can find, and from that conclude that everyone who supports brexit is stupid?
Also, anything with a Fox News Logo on it should be an instant no go in any intelligent discussion. I don't think there has been a single case so far where they didn't misrepresent and distort the truth. They are crowds of people, not individuals. And your attitude towards Fox is pitiable. I do not like their political stance, but this is an undoctored video clip they just so happen to be showing. They are probably the only network in the US that will show it. It is an absolute necessity to get your news from multiple sources because there is no unbiased source. There's nothing even close to being unbiased. The left wing networks in the US are just as bad as Fox. As for police killing black people: they kill white people too, including innocent and compliant white people. More whites than blacks, actually. You will never hear about that, though. Yes, the number of black people shot relative to the proportion of the population they make up is higher, but that correlates with crime in the communities and areas where these people tend to be. If you have a country where every nutter has a gun, the police are going to be twitchy and more aggressive. That is the price you inevitably pay for your liberal gun laws. They also need better training. None of this has anything to do with race. There is no force more corrupting for modern society than identity politics. Really? Then why can we observe similar things all around the world, where cop violence is particularly intense towards the groups which endure racism? Gun laws are much stricter in France and “only” 10-15 people die to cops every year, yet most of them are young people of color. Many of them, who live in suburbs, face pointless harassment, insults (including racial slurs, but it has nothing to do with race right?), humiliating body searches, etc. while their white friends don't—must be a coincidence... Oddly enough, this mysterious over-aggressivity from cops happens to disproportionately fall on non-white people. We also happen to live in a racist society where people of color are discriminated when it comes to school, jobs, housing, etc. but this racism would miraculously disappear in cop activity? An ideology whose very role is to justify the dehumanisation of certain groups so that they can be treated rougher would result in no more violence? Tell me, are those the suburbs that tourists are strongly advised to avoid? And please don't give me that 'people of colour' nonsense. They don't tell people to steer clear of Chinatown, do they? This is about the failure of people from certain cultures to integrate, not about a dislike of non-whites.
Chinatown, really? A community within the US specifically created to appeal to whites, avoid racism and attract tourism? Sanitized and filled with orientalist with the specific goal of making a sustainable area where Chinese could live unmolested by whites? An feature of the US that only existed because long ago the Chinese government pressure our federal government to stop the harassment of Chinese immigrants in America and allow them to buy land?
http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/pagodas-dragon-gates/
If you are going to comment on something in the US, please make a mild attempt understand the complex history behind it.
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On May 20 2017 00:46 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2017 23:56 TheDwf wrote:On May 19 2017 23:33 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:25 Simberto wrote:
It is easy to find the stupidest person who supports something, and claim that they are representatitve of the whole thing.
Should i now look for the stupidest brexiter that i can find, and from that conclude that everyone who supports brexit is stupid?
Also, anything with a Fox News Logo on it should be an instant no go in any intelligent discussion. I don't think there has been a single case so far where they didn't misrepresent and distort the truth. They are crowds of people, not individuals. And your attitude towards Fox is pitiable. I do not like their political stance, but this is an undoctored video clip they just so happen to be showing. They are probably the only network in the US that will show it. It is an absolute necessity to get your news from multiple sources because there is no unbiased source. There's nothing even close to being unbiased. The left wing networks in the US are just as bad as Fox. As for police killing black people: they kill white people too, including innocent and compliant white people. More whites than blacks, actually. You will never hear about that, though. Yes, the number of black people shot relative to the proportion of the population they make up is higher, but that correlates with crime in the communities and areas where these people tend to be. If you have a country where every nutter has a gun, the police are going to be twitchy and more aggressive. That is the price you inevitably pay for your liberal gun laws. They also need better training. None of this has anything to do with race. There is no force more corrupting for modern society than identity politics. Really? Then why can we observe similar things all around the world, where cop violence is particularly intense towards the groups which endure racism? Gun laws are much stricter in France and “only” 10-15 people die to cops every year, yet most of them are young people of color. Many of them, who live in suburbs, face pointless harassment, insults (including racial slurs, but it has nothing to do with race right?), humiliating body searches, etc. while their white friends don't—must be a coincidence... Oddly enough, this mysterious over-aggressivity from cops happens to disproportionately fall on non-white people. We also happen to live in a racist society where people of color are discriminated when it comes to school, jobs, housing, etc. but this racism would miraculously disappear in cop activity? An ideology whose very role is to justify the dehumanisation of certain groups so that they can be treated rougher would result in no more violence? Tell me, are those the suburbs that tourists are strongly advised to avoid? And please don't give me that 'people of colour' nonsense. They don't tell people to steer clear of Chinatown, do they? This is about the failure of people from certain cultures to integrate, not about a dislike of non-whites.
Ehm. I wouldn't recommend POC to walk around at night in specific districts of Berlin.
Mmmmmh, every Berliner living there must be a xenophobe by your logic.
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On May 20 2017 00:58 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 00:45 nitram wrote:On May 19 2017 23:46 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
To be fair to bardtown there are worrying aspects to BLM that should be reported, but in this case you can hardly infer that the video shown is representative. Thats blm in a nutshell. Here in Canada, they were calling Trudeau a white supremacist. That is likely the only way they will ever make headlines in Canada. You see more varied coverage of BLM protests in local papers and news network. They are community protests that are trying to address specific problems within their specific communities in the US. Much like the civil rights movement in the US, it is a large number of factions with a common theme spread across the country. Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 00:46 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:56 TheDwf wrote:On May 19 2017 23:33 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:25 Simberto wrote:
It is easy to find the stupidest person who supports something, and claim that they are representatitve of the whole thing.
Should i now look for the stupidest brexiter that i can find, and from that conclude that everyone who supports brexit is stupid?
Also, anything with a Fox News Logo on it should be an instant no go in any intelligent discussion. I don't think there has been a single case so far where they didn't misrepresent and distort the truth. They are crowds of people, not individuals. And your attitude towards Fox is pitiable. I do not like their political stance, but this is an undoctored video clip they just so happen to be showing. They are probably the only network in the US that will show it. It is an absolute necessity to get your news from multiple sources because there is no unbiased source. There's nothing even close to being unbiased. The left wing networks in the US are just as bad as Fox. As for police killing black people: they kill white people too, including innocent and compliant white people. More whites than blacks, actually. You will never hear about that, though. Yes, the number of black people shot relative to the proportion of the population they make up is higher, but that correlates with crime in the communities and areas where these people tend to be. If you have a country where every nutter has a gun, the police are going to be twitchy and more aggressive. That is the price you inevitably pay for your liberal gun laws. They also need better training. None of this has anything to do with race. There is no force more corrupting for modern society than identity politics. Really? Then why can we observe similar things all around the world, where cop violence is particularly intense towards the groups which endure racism? Gun laws are much stricter in France and “only” 10-15 people die to cops every year, yet most of them are young people of color. Many of them, who live in suburbs, face pointless harassment, insults (including racial slurs, but it has nothing to do with race right?), humiliating body searches, etc. while their white friends don't—must be a coincidence... Oddly enough, this mysterious over-aggressivity from cops happens to disproportionately fall on non-white people. We also happen to live in a racist society where people of color are discriminated when it comes to school, jobs, housing, etc. but this racism would miraculously disappear in cop activity? An ideology whose very role is to justify the dehumanisation of certain groups so that they can be treated rougher would result in no more violence? Tell me, are those the suburbs that tourists are strongly advised to avoid? And please don't give me that 'people of colour' nonsense. They don't tell people to steer clear of Chinatown, do they? This is about the failure of people from certain cultures to integrate, not about a dislike of non-whites. Chinatown, really? A community within the US specifically created to appeal to whites, avoid racism and attract tourism? Sanitized and filled with orientalist with the specific goal of making a sustainable area where Chinese could live unmolested by whites? An feature of the US that only existed because long ago the Chinese government pressure our federal government to stop the harassment of Chinese immigrants in America and allow them to buy land? http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/pagodas-dragon-gates/If you are going to comment on something in the US, please make a mild attempt understand the complex history behind it.
Just leave me alone, for fucks sake. Every major city in the western world has a Chinatown.
On May 20 2017 01:01 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 00:46 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:56 TheDwf wrote:On May 19 2017 23:33 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:25 Simberto wrote:
It is easy to find the stupidest person who supports something, and claim that they are representatitve of the whole thing.
Should i now look for the stupidest brexiter that i can find, and from that conclude that everyone who supports brexit is stupid?
Also, anything with a Fox News Logo on it should be an instant no go in any intelligent discussion. I don't think there has been a single case so far where they didn't misrepresent and distort the truth. They are crowds of people, not individuals. And your attitude towards Fox is pitiable. I do not like their political stance, but this is an undoctored video clip they just so happen to be showing. They are probably the only network in the US that will show it. It is an absolute necessity to get your news from multiple sources because there is no unbiased source. There's nothing even close to being unbiased. The left wing networks in the US are just as bad as Fox. As for police killing black people: they kill white people too, including innocent and compliant white people. More whites than blacks, actually. You will never hear about that, though. Yes, the number of black people shot relative to the proportion of the population they make up is higher, but that correlates with crime in the communities and areas where these people tend to be. If you have a country where every nutter has a gun, the police are going to be twitchy and more aggressive. That is the price you inevitably pay for your liberal gun laws. They also need better training. None of this has anything to do with race. There is no force more corrupting for modern society than identity politics. Really? Then why can we observe similar things all around the world, where cop violence is particularly intense towards the groups which endure racism? Gun laws are much stricter in France and “only” 10-15 people die to cops every year, yet most of them are young people of color. Many of them, who live in suburbs, face pointless harassment, insults (including racial slurs, but it has nothing to do with race right?), humiliating body searches, etc. while their white friends don't—must be a coincidence... Oddly enough, this mysterious over-aggressivity from cops happens to disproportionately fall on non-white people. We also happen to live in a racist society where people of color are discriminated when it comes to school, jobs, housing, etc. but this racism would miraculously disappear in cop activity? An ideology whose very role is to justify the dehumanisation of certain groups so that they can be treated rougher would result in no more violence? Tell me, are those the suburbs that tourists are strongly advised to avoid? And please don't give me that 'people of colour' nonsense. They don't tell people to steer clear of Chinatown, do they? This is about the failure of people from certain cultures to integrate, not about a dislike of non-whites. Ehm. I wouldn't recommend POC to walk around at night in specific districts of Berlin. Mmmmmh, every Berliner living there must be a xenophobe by your logic.
Not at all. I don't even understand your analogy. It makes no sense to me, and I don't think that's a problem on my end.
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On May 20 2017 01:07 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 00:58 Plansix wrote:On May 20 2017 00:45 nitram wrote:On May 19 2017 23:46 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
To be fair to bardtown there are worrying aspects to BLM that should be reported, but in this case you can hardly infer that the video shown is representative. Thats blm in a nutshell. Here in Canada, they were calling Trudeau a white supremacist. That is likely the only way they will ever make headlines in Canada. You see more varied coverage of BLM protests in local papers and news network. They are community protests that are trying to address specific problems within their specific communities in the US. Much like the civil rights movement in the US, it is a large number of factions with a common theme spread across the country. On May 20 2017 00:46 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:56 TheDwf wrote:On May 19 2017 23:33 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:25 Simberto wrote:
It is easy to find the stupidest person who supports something, and claim that they are representatitve of the whole thing.
Should i now look for the stupidest brexiter that i can find, and from that conclude that everyone who supports brexit is stupid?
Also, anything with a Fox News Logo on it should be an instant no go in any intelligent discussion. I don't think there has been a single case so far where they didn't misrepresent and distort the truth. They are crowds of people, not individuals. And your attitude towards Fox is pitiable. I do not like their political stance, but this is an undoctored video clip they just so happen to be showing. They are probably the only network in the US that will show it. It is an absolute necessity to get your news from multiple sources because there is no unbiased source. There's nothing even close to being unbiased. The left wing networks in the US are just as bad as Fox. As for police killing black people: they kill white people too, including innocent and compliant white people. More whites than blacks, actually. You will never hear about that, though. Yes, the number of black people shot relative to the proportion of the population they make up is higher, but that correlates with crime in the communities and areas where these people tend to be. If you have a country where every nutter has a gun, the police are going to be twitchy and more aggressive. That is the price you inevitably pay for your liberal gun laws. They also need better training. None of this has anything to do with race. There is no force more corrupting for modern society than identity politics. Really? Then why can we observe similar things all around the world, where cop violence is particularly intense towards the groups which endure racism? Gun laws are much stricter in France and “only” 10-15 people die to cops every year, yet most of them are young people of color. Many of them, who live in suburbs, face pointless harassment, insults (including racial slurs, but it has nothing to do with race right?), humiliating body searches, etc. while their white friends don't—must be a coincidence... Oddly enough, this mysterious over-aggressivity from cops happens to disproportionately fall on non-white people. We also happen to live in a racist society where people of color are discriminated when it comes to school, jobs, housing, etc. but this racism would miraculously disappear in cop activity? An ideology whose very role is to justify the dehumanisation of certain groups so that they can be treated rougher would result in no more violence? Tell me, are those the suburbs that tourists are strongly advised to avoid? And please don't give me that 'people of colour' nonsense. They don't tell people to steer clear of Chinatown, do they? This is about the failure of people from certain cultures to integrate, not about a dislike of non-whites. Chinatown, really? A community within the US specifically created to appeal to whites, avoid racism and attract tourism? Sanitized and filled with orientalist with the specific goal of making a sustainable area where Chinese could live unmolested by whites? An feature of the US that only existed because long ago the Chinese government pressure our federal government to stop the harassment of Chinese immigrants in America and allow them to buy land? http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/pagodas-dragon-gates/If you are going to comment on something in the US, please make a mild attempt understand the complex history behind it. Just leave me alone, for fucks sake. Every major city in the western world has a Chinatown.
Yeah, because America racism forced them to create the concept and the creation of those neighborhoods have historically been supported by China. The first China town was created because the government of LA let the Chinese neighborhood burn down and then passed laws to prevent them from buying new land or rebuilding.
There is a very interesting history on the subject and why those neighborhoods exist across the world if you took the time to understand it. Rather than trying to slot it into some argument about some people being willing to assimilate and some being unwilling to do so. Comparing the Chinese Americans to black Americans as examples of people willing and unwilling to assimilate is some truly uninformed shit. There are sections of this country that are still, to this day, actively attempting to suppress the voting rights of blacks. And they are doing it openly within state governments.
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On May 20 2017 01:07 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 00:58 Plansix wrote:On May 20 2017 00:45 nitram wrote:On May 19 2017 23:46 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
To be fair to bardtown there are worrying aspects to BLM that should be reported, but in this case you can hardly infer that the video shown is representative. Thats blm in a nutshell. Here in Canada, they were calling Trudeau a white supremacist. That is likely the only way they will ever make headlines in Canada. You see more varied coverage of BLM protests in local papers and news network. They are community protests that are trying to address specific problems within their specific communities in the US. Much like the civil rights movement in the US, it is a large number of factions with a common theme spread across the country. On May 20 2017 00:46 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:56 TheDwf wrote:On May 19 2017 23:33 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:25 Simberto wrote:
It is easy to find the stupidest person who supports something, and claim that they are representatitve of the whole thing.
Should i now look for the stupidest brexiter that i can find, and from that conclude that everyone who supports brexit is stupid?
Also, anything with a Fox News Logo on it should be an instant no go in any intelligent discussion. I don't think there has been a single case so far where they didn't misrepresent and distort the truth. They are crowds of people, not individuals. And your attitude towards Fox is pitiable. I do not like their political stance, but this is an undoctored video clip they just so happen to be showing. They are probably the only network in the US that will show it. It is an absolute necessity to get your news from multiple sources because there is no unbiased source. There's nothing even close to being unbiased. The left wing networks in the US are just as bad as Fox. As for police killing black people: they kill white people too, including innocent and compliant white people. More whites than blacks, actually. You will never hear about that, though. Yes, the number of black people shot relative to the proportion of the population they make up is higher, but that correlates with crime in the communities and areas where these people tend to be. If you have a country where every nutter has a gun, the police are going to be twitchy and more aggressive. That is the price you inevitably pay for your liberal gun laws. They also need better training. None of this has anything to do with race. There is no force more corrupting for modern society than identity politics. Really? Then why can we observe similar things all around the world, where cop violence is particularly intense towards the groups which endure racism? Gun laws are much stricter in France and “only” 10-15 people die to cops every year, yet most of them are young people of color. Many of them, who live in suburbs, face pointless harassment, insults (including racial slurs, but it has nothing to do with race right?), humiliating body searches, etc. while their white friends don't—must be a coincidence... Oddly enough, this mysterious over-aggressivity from cops happens to disproportionately fall on non-white people. We also happen to live in a racist society where people of color are discriminated when it comes to school, jobs, housing, etc. but this racism would miraculously disappear in cop activity? An ideology whose very role is to justify the dehumanisation of certain groups so that they can be treated rougher would result in no more violence? Tell me, are those the suburbs that tourists are strongly advised to avoid? And please don't give me that 'people of colour' nonsense. They don't tell people to steer clear of Chinatown, do they? This is about the failure of people from certain cultures to integrate, not about a dislike of non-whites. Chinatown, really? A community within the US specifically created to appeal to whites, avoid racism and attract tourism? Sanitized and filled with orientalist with the specific goal of making a sustainable area where Chinese could live unmolested by whites? An feature of the US that only existed because long ago the Chinese government pressure our federal government to stop the harassment of Chinese immigrants in America and allow them to buy land? http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/pagodas-dragon-gates/If you are going to comment on something in the US, please make a mild attempt understand the complex history behind it. Just leave me alone, for fucks sake. Every major city in the western world has a Chinatown. Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 01:01 Artisreal wrote:On May 20 2017 00:46 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:56 TheDwf wrote:On May 19 2017 23:33 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:25 Simberto wrote:
It is easy to find the stupidest person who supports something, and claim that they are representatitve of the whole thing.
Should i now look for the stupidest brexiter that i can find, and from that conclude that everyone who supports brexit is stupid?
Also, anything with a Fox News Logo on it should be an instant no go in any intelligent discussion. I don't think there has been a single case so far where they didn't misrepresent and distort the truth. They are crowds of people, not individuals. And your attitude towards Fox is pitiable. I do not like their political stance, but this is an undoctored video clip they just so happen to be showing. They are probably the only network in the US that will show it. It is an absolute necessity to get your news from multiple sources because there is no unbiased source. There's nothing even close to being unbiased. The left wing networks in the US are just as bad as Fox. As for police killing black people: they kill white people too, including innocent and compliant white people. More whites than blacks, actually. You will never hear about that, though. Yes, the number of black people shot relative to the proportion of the population they make up is higher, but that correlates with crime in the communities and areas where these people tend to be. If you have a country where every nutter has a gun, the police are going to be twitchy and more aggressive. That is the price you inevitably pay for your liberal gun laws. They also need better training. None of this has anything to do with race. There is no force more corrupting for modern society than identity politics. Really? Then why can we observe similar things all around the world, where cop violence is particularly intense towards the groups which endure racism? Gun laws are much stricter in France and “only” 10-15 people die to cops every year, yet most of them are young people of color. Many of them, who live in suburbs, face pointless harassment, insults (including racial slurs, but it has nothing to do with race right?), humiliating body searches, etc. while their white friends don't—must be a coincidence... Oddly enough, this mysterious over-aggressivity from cops happens to disproportionately fall on non-white people. We also happen to live in a racist society where people of color are discriminated when it comes to school, jobs, housing, etc. but this racism would miraculously disappear in cop activity? An ideology whose very role is to justify the dehumanisation of certain groups so that they can be treated rougher would result in no more violence? Tell me, are those the suburbs that tourists are strongly advised to avoid? And please don't give me that 'people of colour' nonsense. They don't tell people to steer clear of Chinatown, do they? This is about the failure of people from certain cultures to integrate, not about a dislike of non-whites. Ehm. I wouldn't recommend POC to walk around at night in specific districts of Berlin. Mmmmmh, every Berliner living there must be a xenophobe by your logic. Not at all. I don't even understand your analogy. It makes no sense to me, and I don't think that's a problem on my end.
Then don't even try. Jeez
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On May 20 2017 01:12 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 01:07 bardtown wrote:On May 20 2017 00:58 Plansix wrote:On May 20 2017 00:45 nitram wrote:On May 19 2017 23:46 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
To be fair to bardtown there are worrying aspects to BLM that should be reported, but in this case you can hardly infer that the video shown is representative. Thats blm in a nutshell. Here in Canada, they were calling Trudeau a white supremacist. That is likely the only way they will ever make headlines in Canada. You see more varied coverage of BLM protests in local papers and news network. They are community protests that are trying to address specific problems within their specific communities in the US. Much like the civil rights movement in the US, it is a large number of factions with a common theme spread across the country. On May 20 2017 00:46 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:56 TheDwf wrote:On May 19 2017 23:33 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:25 Simberto wrote:
It is easy to find the stupidest person who supports something, and claim that they are representatitve of the whole thing.
Should i now look for the stupidest brexiter that i can find, and from that conclude that everyone who supports brexit is stupid?
Also, anything with a Fox News Logo on it should be an instant no go in any intelligent discussion. I don't think there has been a single case so far where they didn't misrepresent and distort the truth. They are crowds of people, not individuals. And your attitude towards Fox is pitiable. I do not like their political stance, but this is an undoctored video clip they just so happen to be showing. They are probably the only network in the US that will show it. It is an absolute necessity to get your news from multiple sources because there is no unbiased source. There's nothing even close to being unbiased. The left wing networks in the US are just as bad as Fox. As for police killing black people: they kill white people too, including innocent and compliant white people. More whites than blacks, actually. You will never hear about that, though. Yes, the number of black people shot relative to the proportion of the population they make up is higher, but that correlates with crime in the communities and areas where these people tend to be. If you have a country where every nutter has a gun, the police are going to be twitchy and more aggressive. That is the price you inevitably pay for your liberal gun laws. They also need better training. None of this has anything to do with race. There is no force more corrupting for modern society than identity politics. Really? Then why can we observe similar things all around the world, where cop violence is particularly intense towards the groups which endure racism? Gun laws are much stricter in France and “only” 10-15 people die to cops every year, yet most of them are young people of color. Many of them, who live in suburbs, face pointless harassment, insults (including racial slurs, but it has nothing to do with race right?), humiliating body searches, etc. while their white friends don't—must be a coincidence... Oddly enough, this mysterious over-aggressivity from cops happens to disproportionately fall on non-white people. We also happen to live in a racist society where people of color are discriminated when it comes to school, jobs, housing, etc. but this racism would miraculously disappear in cop activity? An ideology whose very role is to justify the dehumanisation of certain groups so that they can be treated rougher would result in no more violence? Tell me, are those the suburbs that tourists are strongly advised to avoid? And please don't give me that 'people of colour' nonsense. They don't tell people to steer clear of Chinatown, do they? This is about the failure of people from certain cultures to integrate, not about a dislike of non-whites. Chinatown, really? A community within the US specifically created to appeal to whites, avoid racism and attract tourism? Sanitized and filled with orientalist with the specific goal of making a sustainable area where Chinese could live unmolested by whites? An feature of the US that only existed because long ago the Chinese government pressure our federal government to stop the harassment of Chinese immigrants in America and allow them to buy land? http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/pagodas-dragon-gates/If you are going to comment on something in the US, please make a mild attempt understand the complex history behind it. Just leave me alone, for fucks sake. Every major city in the western world has a Chinatown. Yeah, because America racism forced them to create the concept and the creation of those neighborhoods have historically been supported by China. The first China town was created because the government of LA let the Chinese neighborhood burn down and then passed laws to prevent them from buying new land or rebuilding. There is a very interesting history on the subject and why those neighborhoods exist across the world if you took the time to understand it. Rather than trying to slot it into some argument about some people being willing to assimilate and some being unwilling to do so. Comparing the Chinese Americans to black Americans as examples of people willing and unwilling to assimilate is some truly uninformed shit. There are sections of this country that are still, to this day, actively attempting to suppress the voting rights of blacks. And they are doing it openly within state governments.
The only person talking about Americans is you. I was talking about Parisians.
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On May 20 2017 01:20 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 01:12 Plansix wrote:On May 20 2017 01:07 bardtown wrote:On May 20 2017 00:58 Plansix wrote:On May 20 2017 00:45 nitram wrote:On May 19 2017 23:46 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
To be fair to bardtown there are worrying aspects to BLM that should be reported, but in this case you can hardly infer that the video shown is representative. Thats blm in a nutshell. Here in Canada, they were calling Trudeau a white supremacist. That is likely the only way they will ever make headlines in Canada. You see more varied coverage of BLM protests in local papers and news network. They are community protests that are trying to address specific problems within their specific communities in the US. Much like the civil rights movement in the US, it is a large number of factions with a common theme spread across the country. On May 20 2017 00:46 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:56 TheDwf wrote:On May 19 2017 23:33 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:25 Simberto wrote:
It is easy to find the stupidest person who supports something, and claim that they are representatitve of the whole thing.
Should i now look for the stupidest brexiter that i can find, and from that conclude that everyone who supports brexit is stupid?
Also, anything with a Fox News Logo on it should be an instant no go in any intelligent discussion. I don't think there has been a single case so far where they didn't misrepresent and distort the truth. They are crowds of people, not individuals. And your attitude towards Fox is pitiable. I do not like their political stance, but this is an undoctored video clip they just so happen to be showing. They are probably the only network in the US that will show it. It is an absolute necessity to get your news from multiple sources because there is no unbiased source. There's nothing even close to being unbiased. The left wing networks in the US are just as bad as Fox. As for police killing black people: they kill white people too, including innocent and compliant white people. More whites than blacks, actually. You will never hear about that, though. Yes, the number of black people shot relative to the proportion of the population they make up is higher, but that correlates with crime in the communities and areas where these people tend to be. If you have a country where every nutter has a gun, the police are going to be twitchy and more aggressive. That is the price you inevitably pay for your liberal gun laws. They also need better training. None of this has anything to do with race. There is no force more corrupting for modern society than identity politics. Really? Then why can we observe similar things all around the world, where cop violence is particularly intense towards the groups which endure racism? Gun laws are much stricter in France and “only” 10-15 people die to cops every year, yet most of them are young people of color. Many of them, who live in suburbs, face pointless harassment, insults (including racial slurs, but it has nothing to do with race right?), humiliating body searches, etc. while their white friends don't—must be a coincidence... Oddly enough, this mysterious over-aggressivity from cops happens to disproportionately fall on non-white people. We also happen to live in a racist society where people of color are discriminated when it comes to school, jobs, housing, etc. but this racism would miraculously disappear in cop activity? An ideology whose very role is to justify the dehumanisation of certain groups so that they can be treated rougher would result in no more violence? Tell me, are those the suburbs that tourists are strongly advised to avoid? And please don't give me that 'people of colour' nonsense. They don't tell people to steer clear of Chinatown, do they? This is about the failure of people from certain cultures to integrate, not about a dislike of non-whites. Chinatown, really? A community within the US specifically created to appeal to whites, avoid racism and attract tourism? Sanitized and filled with orientalist with the specific goal of making a sustainable area where Chinese could live unmolested by whites? An feature of the US that only existed because long ago the Chinese government pressure our federal government to stop the harassment of Chinese immigrants in America and allow them to buy land? http://99percentinvisible.org/episode/pagodas-dragon-gates/If you are going to comment on something in the US, please make a mild attempt understand the complex history behind it. Just leave me alone, for fucks sake. Every major city in the western world has a Chinatown. Yeah, because America racism forced them to create the concept and the creation of those neighborhoods have historically been supported by China. The first China town was created because the government of LA let the Chinese neighborhood burn down and then passed laws to prevent them from buying new land or rebuilding. There is a very interesting history on the subject and why those neighborhoods exist across the world if you took the time to understand it. Rather than trying to slot it into some argument about some people being willing to assimilate and some being unwilling to do so. Comparing the Chinese Americans to black Americans as examples of people willing and unwilling to assimilate is some truly uninformed shit. There are sections of this country that are still, to this day, actively attempting to suppress the voting rights of blacks. And they are doing it openly within state governments. The only person talking about Americans is you. I was talking about Parisians.
Yes, but you are citing Chinatown and bring up BLM as evidence of some failure to assimilate argument. Both of those things are creations of American racism and a resistance to allowing blacks and Chinese the opportunity to assimilate. You brought up Fox News and then said the “left was just as bad”, clearly not understanding the history of Fox News, its founder or that it is under federal investigation as we type right now. If you are going to cite evidence, I would recommend you stick to the EU and the areas you know better.
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I'm just trying to imagine the selfishness that is required to say that the main problem, when it comes to the west and minorities, is identity politics. See the problem is not that the western countries that have been treating minorities like shit for all these years, that was all fine, the problem is that I now have to hear about it. Unbearable.
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On May 20 2017 00:54 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 00:17 Plansix wrote:
Reductive views on US media continue to be reductive. You're right, there's non-corporate non-warmongering media in the US. RT America. You got the non-corporate part right. Instead it is own by the Kremlin and denied that Ukraine was being invaded. Choose your pill.
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On May 20 2017 01:37 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm just trying to imagine the selfishness that is required to say that the main problem, when it comes to the west and minorities, is identity politics. See the problem is not that the western countries that have been treating minorities like shit for all these years, that was all fine, the problem is that I now have to hear about it. Unbearable.
Is this honestly what you are hearing? Because I think you are completely missing the point of Bardtown then.
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I would argue that the ability of Jews, Chinese and other minorities to integrate successfully into the countries they have emmigrated to firmly puts that the majority of the "blame" of other groups unable to integrate properly firmly at the fault of their culture and willingness to integrate. In England for instance the Jewish and the Chinese have integrated with no real problems, whilst those from the West Indies tend to do worse than natives in every metric. From my external perspective in UK, the victimhood complex which black people have in USA is counterproductive in that they would have far larger and broader support if their aim was to reduce instances of police brutality; instead their main aim appears to galvanise the black community into reducing police brutality against themselves specifically, leading to instances such as that fox new video and the responses against it.
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On May 20 2017 01:58 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 01:37 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm just trying to imagine the selfishness that is required to say that the main problem, when it comes to the west and minorities, is identity politics. See the problem is not that the western countries that have been treating minorities like shit for all these years, that was all fine, the problem is that I now have to hear about it. Unbearable. Is this honestly what you are hearing? Because I think you are completely missing the point of Bardtown then.
You do this a lot Ghostcom. You like to say that somebody has misinterpreted somebody's post, but you don't offer an interpretation yourself nor a specific repute.
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On May 20 2017 01:50 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 00:54 a_flayer wrote:On May 20 2017 00:17 Plansix wrote:
Reductive views on US media continue to be reductive. You're right, there's non-corporate non-warmongering media in the US. RT America. You got the non-corporate part right. Instead it is own by the Kremlin and denied that Ukraine was being invaded. Choose your pill.
Well, within the context of US-centric left/right politics (and thus US-centric foreign policy) RT America is quite non-warmongery. RT will obviously cast a certain perspective on matters that directly involve Russia. There's also quite a significant difference between RT and RT America programming.
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On May 20 2017 01:58 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 01:37 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm just trying to imagine the selfishness that is required to say that the main problem, when it comes to the west and minorities, is identity politics. See the problem is not that the western countries that have been treating minorities like shit for all these years, that was all fine, the problem is that I now have to hear about it. Unbearable. Is this honestly what you are hearing? Because I think you are completely missing the point of Bardtown then.
Obviously that's not how he's phrasing it but that's what it amounts to.
Unless he wants to deny that several countries in the west (most of them?) have been treating their minorities like shit, I guess. But that seems a hard thing to deny.
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On May 20 2017 02:02 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 01:58 Ghostcom wrote:On May 20 2017 01:37 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm just trying to imagine the selfishness that is required to say that the main problem, when it comes to the west and minorities, is identity politics. See the problem is not that the western countries that have been treating minorities like shit for all these years, that was all fine, the problem is that I now have to hear about it. Unbearable. Is this honestly what you are hearing? Because I think you are completely missing the point of Bardtown then. You do this a lot Ghostcom. You like to say that somebody has misinterpreted somebody's post, but you don't offer an interpretation yourself nor a specific repute.
Frankly, I think I spend more time here explaining other peoples posts than I do posting my own opinion. I tend to start out with asking this question to gauge whether or not people were sincere in their misreading or if they were simply strawmanning. It's sadly mostly the latter. If you have an issue with my posting, feel free to PM me about it to not derail the thread.
On May 20 2017 02:07 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 01:58 Ghostcom wrote:On May 20 2017 01:37 Nebuchad wrote:
I'm just trying to imagine the selfishness that is required to say that the main problem, when it comes to the west and minorities, is identity politics. See the problem is not that the western countries that have been treating minorities like shit for all these years, that was all fine, the problem is that I now have to hear about it. Unbearable. Is this honestly what you are hearing? Because I think you are completely missing the point of Bardtown then. Obviously that's not how he's phrasing it but that's what it amounts to.
No it really isn't. What Bardtown is stating is that blaming everything on identity obstructs the possibility of acting upon an issue which at its roots has multiple causal factors.
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I disagree. You appear to spend most of your time saying that other peoples post are incorrect, without ever explaining other peoples post. Apparently anybody who disagrees with your agendas are strawmanning.
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On May 20 2017 00:46 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2017 23:56 TheDwf wrote:On May 19 2017 23:33 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:25 Simberto wrote:
It is easy to find the stupidest person who supports something, and claim that they are representatitve of the whole thing.
Should i now look for the stupidest brexiter that i can find, and from that conclude that everyone who supports brexit is stupid?
Also, anything with a Fox News Logo on it should be an instant no go in any intelligent discussion. I don't think there has been a single case so far where they didn't misrepresent and distort the truth. They are crowds of people, not individuals. And your attitude towards Fox is pitiable. I do not like their political stance, but this is an undoctored video clip they just so happen to be showing. They are probably the only network in the US that will show it. It is an absolute necessity to get your news from multiple sources because there is no unbiased source. There's nothing even close to being unbiased. The left wing networks in the US are just as bad as Fox. As for police killing black people: they kill white people too, including innocent and compliant white people. More whites than blacks, actually. You will never hear about that, though. Yes, the number of black people shot relative to the proportion of the population they make up is higher, but that correlates with crime in the communities and areas where these people tend to be. If you have a country where every nutter has a gun, the police are going to be twitchy and more aggressive. That is the price you inevitably pay for your liberal gun laws. They also need better training. None of this has anything to do with race. There is no force more corrupting for modern society than identity politics. Really? Then why can we observe similar things all around the world, where cop violence is particularly intense towards the groups which endure racism? Gun laws are much stricter in France and “only” 10-15 people die to cops every year, yet most of them are young people of color. Many of them, who live in suburbs, face pointless harassment, insults (including racial slurs, but it has nothing to do with race right?), humiliating body searches, etc. while their white friends don't—must be a coincidence... Oddly enough, this mysterious over-aggressivity from cops happens to disproportionately fall on non-white people. We also happen to live in a racist society where people of color are discriminated when it comes to school, jobs, housing, etc. but this racism would miraculously disappear in cop activity? An ideology whose very role is to justify the dehumanisation of certain groups so that they can be treated rougher would result in no more violence? Tell me, are those the suburbs that tourists are strongly advised to avoid? And please don't give me that 'people of colour' nonsense. They don't tell people to steer clear of Chinatown, do they? This is about the failure of people from certain cultures to integrate, not about a dislike of non-whites.
Yep, tourists don't go to those suburbs because the sight of old blocks of buildings is not that attractive.
Oh, sorry, was this a subtle hint at the legend of no-go zones?
Correct me if I'm mistaken but you don't actually believe in the existence of racism, do you? I mean, outside of neonazis or extremists of that kind. You don't think “ordinary” racism exists, or?...
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On May 20 2017 02:11 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
I disagree. You appear to spend most of your time saying that other peoples post are incorrect, without ever explaining other peoples post. Apparently anybody who disagrees with your agendas are strawmanning.
You are free to do so  But in that case I would encourage you to follow my posting more intimately (although I'm frankly not that interesting of a TL poster).
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On May 20 2017 02:07 Ghostcom wrote:
No it really isn't. What Bardtown is stating is that blaming everything on identity obstructs the possibility of acting upon an issue which at its roots has multiple causal factors.
And the counter would be that without identity politics nothing is likely to be done about this issue, given that it typically won't be on the radar of politicians because it concerns a specific type of population that has little political reach (hence the need for identity politics in the first place).
You're acting as if we hadn't seen how this issue develops without identity politics. This lack of what you call "obstruction" doesn't make it easier for the problem to get solved, it makes it easier for the problem to be dismissed.
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On May 20 2017 02:15 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2017 00:46 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:56 TheDwf wrote:On May 19 2017 23:33 bardtown wrote:On May 19 2017 23:25 Simberto wrote:
It is easy to find the stupidest person who supports something, and claim that they are representatitve of the whole thing.
Should i now look for the stupidest brexiter that i can find, and from that conclude that everyone who supports brexit is stupid?
Also, anything with a Fox News Logo on it should be an instant no go in any intelligent discussion. I don't think there has been a single case so far where they didn't misrepresent and distort the truth. They are crowds of people, not individuals. And your attitude towards Fox is pitiable. I do not like their political stance, but this is an undoctored video clip they just so happen to be showing. They are probably the only network in the US that will show it. It is an absolute necessity to get your news from multiple sources because there is no unbiased source. There's nothing even close to being unbiased. The left wing networks in the US are just as bad as Fox. As for police killing black people: they kill white people too, including innocent and compliant white people. More whites than blacks, actually. You will never hear about that, though. Yes, the number of black people shot relative to the proportion of the population they make up is higher, but that correlates with crime in the communities and areas where these people tend to be. If you have a country where every nutter has a gun, the police are going to be twitchy and more aggressive. That is the price you inevitably pay for your liberal gun laws. They also need better training. None of this has anything to do with race. There is no force more corrupting for modern society than identity politics. Really? Then why can we observe similar things all around the world, where cop violence is particularly intense towards the groups which endure racism? Gun laws are much stricter in France and “only” 10-15 people die to cops every year, yet most of them are young people of color. Many of them, who live in suburbs, face pointless harassment, insults (including racial slurs, but it has nothing to do with race right?), humiliating body searches, etc. while their white friends don't—must be a coincidence... Oddly enough, this mysterious over-aggressivity from cops happens to disproportionately fall on non-white people. We also happen to live in a racist society where people of color are discriminated when it comes to school, jobs, housing, etc. but this racism would miraculously disappear in cop activity? An ideology whose very role is to justify the dehumanisation of certain groups so that they can be treated rougher would result in no more violence? Tell me, are those the suburbs that tourists are strongly advised to avoid? And please don't give me that 'people of colour' nonsense. They don't tell people to steer clear of Chinatown, do they? This is about the failure of people from certain cultures to integrate, not about a dislike of non-whites. Yep, tourists don't go to those suburbs because the sight of old blocks of buildings is not that attractive. Oh, sorry, was this a subtle hint at the legend of no-go zones? Correct me if I'm mistaken but you don't actually believe in the existence of racism, do you? I mean, outside of neonazis or extremists of that kind. You don't think “ordinary” racism exists, or?...
What is 'ordinary' racism? Every race has stereotypes about every other race, if that's what you mean. I don't think they're all that debilitating, though, and stereotypes are rarely entirely unfounded.
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EPT
