EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 860
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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On May 20 2017 02:07 Ghostcom wrote: No it really isn't. What Bardtown is stating is that blaming everything on identity obstructs the possibility of acting upon an issue which at its roots has multiple causal factors. Which obviously doesn't seem to be relevant any more when it's time for a cultural excursion into the life of Muslims or whatever group somebody wants to criticise at the time. That's really the core mechanism, whenever identity is convenient to mess with somebody 'mainstream' society is quick to point to it. When identity politics becomes a tool of a minority to emancipate themselves or develop autonomy it is virulently opposed. It just happens to be the case that over the last few years the latter was more prevalent. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On May 20 2017 02:52 Plansix wrote: Identity politics is just the phrase that people throw around because they can't say "They are catering the Chinese/black/Italians/Germans" any more. It is an attempt to co-opt the idea of inclusion, while also placing the burden on the minority group to conform without debate. The very act of invoking identity politics increases the divide between the two side. It states that the the dominant group's identity is the base line for political discourse and other identities seeking inclusion must completely conform to that base line as set forth by the dominant group. It is an overly broad and vague term used to discredit the political views of minorities. And we know this because it is used in both the EU and US, where our issues with racism and minority groups could not be more different. Welcome to 2017 where those who don't want politics divided along racial lines are racists. Reminds me of that famous racist, Martin Luther King Jr., dreaming of a time when people wouldn't be judged by their skin colour. What a colossal bigot. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection. And this applies to practically all minority groups and this pseudo egalitarian nonsense that right-wingers seem to push nowadays. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 20 2017 02:52 bardtown wrote: What is 'ordinary' racism? Every race has stereotypes about every other race, if that's what you mean. I don't think they're all that debilitating, though, and stereotypes are rarely entirely unfounded. Do you think that some human groups are categorized on the basis of their ethnic origin, skin color, religion, etc. and then essentialized, ranked in a hierarchy and discriminated, in such a way that their human rights and/or fundamental liberties are (more often) denied? | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12535 Posts
On May 20 2017 03:04 bardtown wrote: Welcome to 2017 where those who don't want politics divided along racial lines are racists. Reminds me of that famous racist, Martin Luther King Jr., dreaming of a time when people wouldn't be judged by their skin colour. What a colossal bigot. You're choosing to define the term as divisive, it's not warranted by the definition of the term. It "refers to political positions based on the interests and perspectives of social groups with which people identify". You're just bringing attention to problems that target a specific group of people and might otherwise be ignored because they don't target the majority of the population or the people who have the most power. Which, as someone who doesn't want politics divided along racial lines, you find to be a good thing, cause there's no reason why minorities should have less capacity to speak up about their issues with the politics of their country. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On May 20 2017 03:04 bardtown wrote: Welcome to 2017 where those who don't want politics divided along racial lines are racists. Reminds me of that famous racist, Martin Luther King Jr., dreaming of a time when people wouldn't be judged by their skin colour. What a colossal bigot. That is literally what he accused of doing in his time. The same language and rhetoric were used on him. He was charged with trying to divide the US, push racial politics, cause a race war and in-sighting riots. The FBI investigated him as a 1960s terrorist. Everything that people are saying about modern identity politics was used against King in his time. None of this is new. It is just most of our generation were not required to read about it civil rights fully and think this is all new stuff. Dude, do not cite US political history anymore. You have received the super sanitized, happy, white Americans can feel good about this version. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 20 2017 03:04 bardtown wrote: Welcome to 2017 where those who don't want politics divided along racial lines are racists. Reminds me of that famous racist, Martin Luther King Jr., dreaming of a time when people wouldn't be judged by their skin colour. What a colossal bigot. Wanting to build a post-racial society is nice, color blindness in a racist society simply perpetuates racial oppression. I'm fairly sure MLK wanted the former and not the latter. | ||
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 20 2017 03:46 bardtown wrote: Meh. I'm not going to reply to a half dozen posts at once. I'm just going to go on treating individuals as individuals and not as colours or genitals. ... in typical white male fashion?  | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
I don't get it. As with every other racial/gender grouping, I don't think white men have much in common. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
It's much easier to afford neutrality when you're on the good side of the fence—since by definition you're not suffering from some of the structural dominations. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
The common response from white males that don’t want an in-depth on discussion racism or sexism is that they plan to ignore race and gender. And by default, other people should too. It is the thing I talked about earlier about “identity politics” being focused on the identity of the dominant group. You plan on treating everyone the same and it is their fault if they claim they have different concerns than you because of their race or gender. | ||
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a_flayer
Netherlands2826 Posts
On May 20 2017 03:52 TheDwf wrote: It's much easier to afford neutrality when you're on the good side of the fence—since by definition you're not suffering from some of the structural dominations. I've seen reports that the difference in income between short men vs tall men and men vs women is comparable in size. Same goes for ugly men vs handsome men and men vs women. As a short ugly white male, I demand equality. | ||
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Nebuchad
Switzerland12535 Posts
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Sent.
Poland9331 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On May 20 2017 03:58 a_flayer wrote: I've seen reports that the difference in income between short men vs tall men and men vs women is comparable in size. Same goes for ugly men vs handsome men and men vs women. As a short ugly white male, I demand equality. You had to be that guy. | ||
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warding
Portugal2397 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On May 20 2017 04:01 Sent. wrote: I'm going to play Dangermousecatdog here and interpret posts disagreeing with bardtown in the most evil way possible: so you want to discriminate against white males because they happen to do the best in a system where all people are equal before law? Just for reference, that guy disagrees with absolutely everything I say and has done for the past year in the UK politics thread. So it's not like he's leaping to defend me. I like what the poster above you said, though. I think people who like the colour yellow probably suffer in the dating game. I hope the state will compensate them for their struggle. In all seriousness: white people have problems too. My race and gender are rather less relevant to my quality of life than my health, and yet nobody gives me any oppression points for that. It's really unhealthy to assume that these factors in particular define the status of a person. | ||
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