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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. | ||
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
On January 31 2016 08:18 SoSexy wrote: Nitram your ignorance on this argument is mind boggling. Please stop embarassing yourself. If you want war so badly, do all us true Europeans a favour and go to Syria. | ||
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Saumure
France404 Posts
On January 31 2016 09:43 Nyxisto wrote: ![[image loading]](https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/heatmap.png) I don't get the point you are trying to make | ||
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ZeroChrome
Canada1001 Posts
On January 31 2016 11:49 Saumure wrote: I don't get the point you are trying to make His point regarding that %of tweets from each country graph is that the US and UK probably have a much greater number of tumblr users to tweet about refugees than Germany, hence the skewed statistics. | ||
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On January 31 2016 02:24 Nyxisto wrote: Refugees aren't allowed to work for up to 16 months legally , are they included in these numbers? And before people jump the gun: these numbers are not just "the recent months". It has been like this since 2010. Experts are saying that this trend won't change, and that for the forseeable future refugees/immigrants will be a burden on the german welfare system. And as a funny sidenote, i added that "and before people jump the gun" because i knew that's exactly what you'd say. It's getting to the point where an argument is not needed anymore, because you're so predictable that i can argue for you. But since you apparently missed the link (because i answered that question already, on the same page) http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article151637452/Die-Wahrheit-ueber-das-Fluechtlings-Jobwunder.html So war die Arbeitslosenquote nach den Zahlen des IAB, dem Forschungsinstitut der Bundesagentur für Arbeit, unter Syrern, Irakern und Afghanen schon Ende 2010 mit jeweils rund 32 Prozent deutlich höher als bei anderen Herkunftsländern. Bei den Libanesen betrug sie auch damals schon fast 50 Prozent. You will find that the end of 2010 is longer than 16 months ago. Now read very carefully: 5 years ago, 32% of syrians had a job. That went down to 9% in november 2015. 5 years ago, 37% of afghans had a job. Went down to 27%. And so on, and so forth. Are you seriously trying to find an argument on how immigrants are good for the economy? They're not. They're simply not. They don't work for the most part (and the "most" part is literally), regardless of the reason (they're hopelessly underqualified, just to take your "lol they're not lazy" argument away). 70 percent of syrians/afghans etc who already had a fucking apprenticeship (no "they're not allowed" here) quit it . And that's in 2013. The average quitting rate is 25%. You know why? Because an apprenticeship is "underpaid", and they can't follow the theoretical part of it. http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article147608982/Sieben-von-zehn-Fluechtlingen-brechen-Ausbildung-ab.html Just stop throwing those stupid arguments out there, that have no base in reality. They just don't. Refugees etc from the middle east are not like the brits that come over and work for Airbus, etc. You can try and spin it however you want, in the end, it's always a net-loss. In all honesty, i tell you how i see it: that money, at least partially, is better spend on seniors in germany, barely making it over the poverty rate with their pension after 45 years of actually working (my father gets less than 1200 euros after 48 years of Garten- und Landschaftsbau, Vorarbeiter). Because that's a joke. Only mexico, chile and japan pay their pensioners less. That's something i as a german find extremely shameful. edit If i come off as hostile towards immigrants: i'm actually not. I'm hostile towards people who try to make the situation "better" by lying through their teeth to keep the population calm. And i'm hostile towards people who think that somehow, refugees are more important than the people who made germany what it is today (literally, because that's the generation going into pension now). | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
So what does that image have to do with that twitter thing? Or do you think that the picture is against statistics in general? That every "who tweets what" statistic will be heavily skewed towards English speaking posters because they make up the majority of twitter users. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On January 31 2016 12:45 Nyxisto wrote: It was just a genuine question, I was on the phone and didn't see that conversation That every "who tweets what" statistic will be heavily scewed towards English speaking posters because they make up the majority of twitter users. I stand corrected, fair enough. I'm actually not fluent in "twitting" and stuff - i can't actually think of a way to get a useful statistic of any sort out of social media. Let alone twitter. In my mind, that's still a thing to tell people that you're eating right now. Or pooping. Sometimes both. | ||
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Saumure
France404 Posts
On January 31 2016 12:09 ZeroChrome wrote: His point regarding that %of tweets from each country graph is that the US and UK probably have a much greater number of tumblr users to tweet about refugees than Germany, hence the skewed statistics. Still irrelevant. Why don't the British and the americans tweet #Welcome#USA/UK ? On January 31 2016 12:45 Nyxisto wrote: It was just a genuine question, I was on the phone and didn't see that conversation That every "who tweets what" statistic will be heavily skewed towards English speaking posters because they make up the majority of twitter users. Only, it is not about speaking english but tweet origin. Why don't the British and the americans tweet #Welcome#USA/UK ? | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5299 Posts
case in point - #blyonfire does not become #harstemonfire + Show Spoiler + after the 0-3 i googled furrypornography tho ... wth men | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8708 Posts
In all honesty, i tell you how i see it: that money, at least partially, is better spend on seniors in germany, barely making it over the poverty rate with their pension after 45 years of actually working (my father gets less than 1200 euros after 48 years of Garten- und Landschaftsbau, Vorarbeiter). Because that's a joke. Only mexico, chile and japan pay their pensioners less. That's something i as a german find extremely shameful. I can absolutely sympathize with that, though you just have to see the logic behind it. it's the "free market" (..."job creators" in the various business sectors) that decreases wages on skills and services it deems not worthy of more. globalization fucked the little guy over even more. in the US for example, most people don't even have 1k$ to their name. if they did not have state sponsored programs like social security and medicare/medicaid that country would be in complete shambles. and in many ways it is in complete shambles already. that's the road we are going down as well in europe, slower but we are on track. look at the "solutions for greece". schröder and his agenda 2010. hardly anything got better under a left leaning government lol, it was basically a present from SPD/Grüne to the conservatives et al, they did the dirty work and alienated their base - ever wondered why they chanted "wer hat uns verraten - sozialdemokraten!". and why die linke now is a thing? and those were years BEFORE the GFC. before a sense of perpetual crisis and lack of perspectives. where money was easy and we had, at least on paper smaller problems, or rather the problems of today were only in the making. I can see how that upsets people, my environment is basically the same. the problem we have with refugees is basically shadow boxing match, with the money we spent on saving the banks we could basically rebuild syria. the underlying problem is WAY DEEPER. and that's why it won't be discussed, too many (moneyed) interests depend on the status quo. anyone still interested in a financial transaction tax?  but now we have once again have a culture war and the end of the occident... and yes refugees are a huge problem, but not our biggest one. it's media that sets the agenda. greece did not go away, they still are in huge trouble and with it the whole (failed) architecture of the euro. we just don't hear and read about it because we are occupied elsewhere btw, die welt is from axel springer, you might as well read bams. the same but with easier language. now they are even fucking with the spiegel  | ||
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Hryul
Austria2609 Posts
On January 31 2016 17:49 Doublemint wrote: + Show Spoiler + In all honesty, i tell you how i see it: that money, at least partially, is better spend on seniors in germany, barely making it over the poverty rate with their pension after 45 years of actually working (my father gets less than 1200 euros after 48 years of Garten- und Landschaftsbau, Vorarbeiter). Because that's a joke. Only mexico, chile and japan pay their pensioners less. That's something i as a german find extremely shameful. I can absolutely sympathize with that, though you just have to see the logic behind it. it's the "free market" (..."job creators" in the various business sectors) that decreases wages on skills and services it deems not worthy of more. globalization fucked the little guy over even more. in the US for example, most people don't even have 1k$ to their name. if they did not have state sponsored programs like social security and medicare/medicaid that country would be in complete shambles. and in many ways it is in complete shambles already. that's the road we are going down as well in europe, slower but we are on track. look at the "solutions for greece". schröder and his agenda 2010. hardly anything got better under a left leaning government lol, it was basically a present from SPD/Grüne to the conservatives et al, they did the dirty work and alienated their base - ever wondered why they chanted "wer hat uns verraten - sozialdemokraten!". and why die linke now is a thing? and those were years BEFORE the GFC. before a sense of perpetual crisis and lack of perspectives. where money was easy and we had, at least on paper smaller problems, or rather the problems of today were only in the making. I can see how that upsets people, my environment is basically the same. the problem we have with refugees is basically shadow boxing match, with the money we spent on saving the banks we could basically rebuild syria. the underlying problem is WAY DEEPER. and that's why it won't be discussed, too many (moneyed) interests depend on the status quo. anyone still interested in a financial transaction tax? but now we have once again have a culture war and the end of the occident... and yes refugees are a huge problem, but not our biggest one. it's media that sets the agenda. greece did not go away, they still are in huge trouble and with it the whole (failed) architecture of the euro. we just don't hear and read about it because we are occupied elsewhere btw, die welt is from axel springer, you might as well read bams. the same but with easier language. now they are even fucking with the spiegel I haven't bought Spiegel for a long time. But as long as they take people like Augstein or Stokowski serious, they don't need anyone from the outside to ruin them. And regarding "Die Linke": Do you remember little miss "Thanks you, Bomber Harris" Anne Helm? Well she now lives happily with "Die Linke" and is making somewhat of a career there. It's also quite strange that back then they carried left/feminist activists from Berlin to Munich to the Pirate convention to shout down (literally) speakers that they didn't like. Honi soit qui mal y pense. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11753 Posts
On January 31 2016 17:49 Doublemint wrote: I can absolutely sympathize with that, though you just have to see the logic behind it. it's the "free market" (..."job creators" in the various business sectors) that decreases wages on skills and services it deems not worthy of more. globalization fucked the little guy over even more. in the US for example, most people don't even have 1k$ to their name. if they did not have state sponsored programs like social security and medicare/medicaid that country would be in complete shambles. and in many ways it is in complete shambles already. that's the road we are going down as well in europe, slower but we are on track. look at the "solutions for greece". schröder and his agenda 2010. hardly anything got better under a left leaning government lol, it was basically a present from SPD/Grüne to the conservatives et al, they did the dirty work and alienated their base - ever wondered why they chanted "wer hat uns verraten - sozialdemokraten!". and why die linke now is a thing? and those were years BEFORE the GFC. before a sense of perpetual crisis and lack of perspectives. where money was easy and we had, at least on paper smaller problems, or rather the problems of today were only in the making. I can see how that upsets people, my environment is basically the same. the problem we have with refugees is basically shadow boxing match, with the money we spent on saving the banks we could basically rebuild syria. the underlying problem is WAY DEEPER. and that's why it won't be discussed, too many (moneyed) interests depend on the status quo. anyone still interested in a financial transaction tax? but now we have once again have a culture war and the end of the occident... and yes refugees are a huge problem, but not our biggest one. it's media that sets the agenda. greece did not go away, they still are in huge trouble and with it the whole (failed) architecture of the euro. we just don't hear and read about it because we are occupied elsewhere btw, die welt is from axel springer, you might as well read bams. the same but with easier language. now they are even fucking with the spiegel Not about any of your points, but the slogan "Wer hat uns verraten - Sozialdemokraten" ("Who betrayed us - Social democrats", it rhymes in german) is way older than even the green party. It is originally a slogan used by communists in the weimar republic, who felt that they could have achieved a soviet-style communist germany after the 1918 november revolution. The SPD did not go along with that, and allied with the command of the military to crush a more leftist revolution, and in the end Germany didn't become communist, and communists felt betrayed by the SPD. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8708 Posts
mine was meant to be a simple statement of fact without judgment or ridicule or praise. could have added that, the situation in which we are living now, populist parties are stronger than ever. and die linke is about as populist as it gets. and they rode a different wave to popularity, just as the afd and fpoe now had the EU and euro before, now it's to the core of "them vs. us", "our upstanding people vs. the muslim hordes". though even a broken clock is right twice a day, so when it comes to analyzing the problem they are not completely off the mark with their capitalism critique. though what they have in mind as a "solution" lol. if you can even call it that. not that easy to know what to vote nowadays thankfully in austria we do that in 2018 again on a federal level. if our taxi driver(faymann) and django(mitterlehner) won't call it quits earlier and lay out the red carpet for the graf bumsti(strache) to ascend the throne. //edit: yeah, but my point was that now the people relying on, or believing in social democrats are screaming it from the top of their lungs or they just vote center/far right. | ||
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Yuljan
2196 Posts
On January 31 2016 17:49 Doublemint wrote: I can absolutely sympathize with that, though you just have to see the logic behind it. it's the "free market" (..."job creators" in the various business sectors) that decreases wages on skills and services it deems not worthy of more. globalization fucked the little guy over even more. in the US for example, most people don't even have 1k$ to their name. if they did not have state sponsored programs like social security and medicare/medicaid that country would be in complete shambles. and in many ways it is in complete shambles already. that's the road we are going down as well in europe, slower but we are on track. look at the "solutions for greece". schröder and his agenda 2010. hardly anything got better under a left leaning government lol, it was basically a present from SPD/Grüne to the conservatives et al, they did the dirty work and alienated their base - ever wondered why they chanted "wer hat uns verraten - sozialdemokraten!". and why die linke now is a thing? and those were years BEFORE the GFC. before a sense of perpetual crisis and lack of perspectives. where money was easy and we had, at least on paper smaller problems, or rather the problems of today were only in the making. I can see how that upsets people, my environment is basically the same. the problem we have with refugees is basically shadow boxing match, with the money we spent on saving the banks we could basically rebuild syria. the underlying problem is WAY DEEPER. and that's why it won't be discussed, too many (moneyed) interests depend on the status quo. anyone still interested in a financial transaction tax? but now we have once again have a culture war and the end of the occident... and yes refugees are a huge problem, but not our biggest one. it's media that sets the agenda. greece did not go away, they still are in huge trouble and with it the whole (failed) architecture of the euro. we just don't hear and read about it because we are occupied elsewhere btw, die welt is from axel springer, you might as well read bams. the same but with easier language. now they are even fucking with the spiegel Spiegel is the leftist equivalent of the Bild and one should only read if he needs motivation to go on a rampage. | ||
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
Ok, so we have someone with a twisted worldview just commenting to a long argument "But your source is too left-wing for me. Argument done and won." Being bad at argueing is not banned at this website, but I call you out here and now on it anyway. | ||
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dismiss
United Kingdom3341 Posts
On January 31 2016 20:47 trulojucreathrma.com wrote: Always throught Speigel was a quality newspaper known for investigative journalism that's not even known for being off-center. Ok, so we have someone with a twisted worldview just commenting to a long argument "But your source is too left-wing for me. Argument done and won." Being bad at argueing is not banned at this website, but I call you out here and now on it anyway. The traditional weekly magazine is definitely superior to their online presence. It's actually a quite interesting and weird situation due to how the company is set up. However it's fairly solidly entrenched in the liberal, intellectual part of the political spectrum not the centre. | ||
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
Can understand why a secondary citizen would lash out to it, though. | ||
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Paljas
Germany6926 Posts
If i come off as hostile towards immigrants: i'm actually not. I'm hostile towards people who try to make the situation "better" by lying through their teeth to keep the population calm. And i'm hostile towards people who think that somehow, refugees are more important than the people who made germany what it is today (literally, because that's the generation going into pension now). >Spends his whole time on TL to make anti refugee posts >Plays poor seniors of against poor refugees >Uses a stupid us vs them rhetoric all the time >"I am not against immigrants" >mfw Doublemint already pointed out that poverty among the elderly has nothing to do with refugees (and everything to do with shitty wages and a bad social system). Using this against refugees or immigrants puts you on the same level as the NPD with their "Geld für die Oma statt für Sinti und Roma" slogan. User was warned for this post | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
That's not to say it's impossible to support two separate groups, but to say one cost to society isn't linked to how much can be spent on another cost makes no sense. | ||
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trulojucreathrma.com
United States327 Posts
Start with refugees, pensioners, the physically and mentally handicapped. But let's also add degenerate gamblers, college drop-outs, video game addicts, adults that are jobless, live with their parents and surf the web all day arguing their bullshit theories, etc etc. TL will be a quiet place once you guys are done removing everyone that is a drain on society. Oh, and fucking university students. They are future Rote Armee. We need to get rid of them, now! Curiosity leads to learning, learning leads to university and university leads knowledge and wisdom, and knowledge and wisdom, that leads to the left side! Noooo! | ||
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