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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On January 10 2016 17:54 m4ini wrote:
What happened in cologne is apparently called "taharrush gamea", meaning "collective sexual assault". Well known and apparently common problem in some arabic countries.
Was the first occurrence in germany, but you know something is not rare if it has a specific description in the countries where it occurs constantly.
And yes, that's something that is arabic, and has to do with their patriarchal structures. Who would've thought that they wouldn't drop the behaviour that's so convenient for males.
Not exactly a viral topic, it seems.
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On January 10 2016 19:13 bo1b wrote:
It's not hard to be confused beyond belief after a completely insane policy is implemented with no clear benefits at all.
I agree, for the most part. politicians suck at explaining stuff, generally dance on eggshells and when shit hits the fan they falter and look weak --> people look elsewhere for simple, clear "answers".
benefits can only be had if we start(ed) perceiving it as a chance in the first place. the way it got handled and is still handled, the pessimists and critics seem to be more right every passing day.
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The whole point of bringing in so many unskilled workers is to drive down the wage for unskilled work. In the end, the rich win and the poor lose.
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Indeed, that's why right wing politicians can suddenly be in favour of immigration. Race to the bottom.
They want to do the same with skilled workers.
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On January 10 2016 17:54 m4ini wrote:
What happened in cologne is apparently called "taharrush gamea", meaning "collective sexual assault". Well known and apparently common problem in some arabic countries.
Was the first occurrence in germany, but you know something is not rare if it has a specific description in the countries where it occurs constantly.
And yes, that's something that is arabic, and has to do with their patriarchal structures. Who would've thought that they wouldn't drop the behaviour that's so convenient for males.
I don't think it's exclusively Arabic though, happens a lot in India too
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I completely agree with this opinion piece from the New York Times:
http://www.nytimes.c...brink.html?_r=0
"If you believe that an aging, secularized, heretofore-mostly-homogeneous society is likely to peacefully absorb a migration of that size and scale of cultural difference, then you have a bright future as a spokesman for the current German government.
You’re also a fool. Such a transformation promises increasing polarization among natives and new arrivals alike. It threatens not just a spike in terrorism but a rebirth of 1930s-style political violence. The still-imaginary France Michel Houellebecq conjured up in his novel “Submission,” in which nativists and Islamists brawl in the streets, would have a very good chance of being realized in the German future.
This need not happen. But prudence requires doing everything possible to prevent it. That means closing Germany’s borders to new arrivals for the time being. It means beginning an orderly deportation process for able-bodied young men. It means giving up the fond illusion that Germany’s past sins can be absolved with a reckless humanitarianism in the present.
It means that Angela Merkel must go — so that her country, and the continent it bestrides, can avoid paying too high a price for her high-minded folly."
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On January 10 2016 19:41 nitram wrote:
The whole point of bringing in so many unskilled workers is to drive down the wage for unskilled work. In the end, the rich win and the poor lose.
There has to be more than that, because Germany can get unskilled workers from places like Spain and Italy, countries with massive unemployment. Without the culture shock of Muslims in a secular country.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304171804579122812328386966
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On January 11 2016 01:29 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 19:41 nitram wrote:
The whole point of bringing in so many unskilled workers is to drive down the wage for unskilled work. In the end, the rich win and the poor lose. There has to be more than that, because Germany can get unskilled workers from places like Spain and Italy, countries with massive unemployment. Without the culture shock of Muslims in a secular country. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304171804579122812328386966
The mobility of workers within europe is too low to actually reequilibrate the desequilibrium caused by the euro : not enough italian, greece and spanish moves to germany (even if they do). Not to mention it would be politically incorrect for germany to steal Italy and Spain's life force (more than it is already doing) anyway.
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It's theft to enable people to freely choose the country they want to live and work in? A fence to keep the refugees out and now fences to keep the Spaniards in? Is that the solution to every problem of the contemporary left and right "no matter the problem, just build a fence!"?
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On January 11 2016 01:46 Nyxisto wrote:
It's theft to enable people to freely choose the country they want to live and work in? A fence to keep the refugees out and now fences to keep the Spaniards in? Is that the solution to every problem of the contemporary left and right "no matter the problem, just build a fence!"?
Whitedog's not too fond of the whole Euro and European Union thing. It's not a topic worth pursuing since neither you nor him will change your minds about it.
Also, happy birthday!
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I mean it's one thing to dislike the European Union, but the answer to anything can't really just be to errect new barriers. Either in the physical or metaphorical sense. The world just isn't going to turn back to a time where this is a feasible solution (or one that would be morally defensible).
Also thanks but teamliquid lives in the future! I'll have to sleep one more night : (
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Not exactly a viral topic, it seems.
Hardly surprising.
In other news, a syrian + an iraqi (18 and 20) went ahead and sexually assaulted a 15 year old girl on Dusseldorf main trainstation, pulling her on their laps, touching the genital areas and kissing her on the mouth (on the 6th already, only surfaced today). Police didn't and still hasn't released a statement, stating "victim protection". A moroccan person called the police, which arrived quickly enough to prevent worse - all three were collected by the police, one of them remains in custody.
Also, the amount of sexual delicts on NYE in Dusselforf rose to 41.
Yeah. Lets still act like we didn't import a huge problem.
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On January 11 2016 01:46 Nyxisto wrote:
It's theft to enable people to freely choose the country they want to live and work in? A fence to keep the refugees out and now fences to keep the Spaniards in? Is that the solution to every problem of the contemporary left and right "no matter the problem, just build a fence!"?
So for you, it's freedom that pushed Syrian to go live in Germany, and it's freedom that push Italian and Greeks to go work in Germany. I'll give a tip, if it was only about freedom, everybody would go and live in the south of Italy, because god damn it's beautiful, the weather is nice and the girls are goddess.
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On January 11 2016 02:32 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 01:46 Nyxisto wrote:
It's theft to enable people to freely choose the country they want to live and work in? A fence to keep the refugees out and now fences to keep the Spaniards in? Is that the solution to every problem of the contemporary left and right "no matter the problem, just build a fence!"? So for you, it's freedom that pushed Syrian to go live in Germany, and it's freedom that push Italian and Greeks to go work in Germany. I'll give a tip, if it was only about freedom, everybody would go and live in the south of Italy, because god damn it's beautiful, the weather is nice and the girls are goddess..
No, Syrians are fleeing from a war, I think we can agree on that. But I that there are many Italians and Greeks that like to go to Germany, and everybody who wants to shouldn't be stopped from doing so in any direct or indirect way. Yeah and well the German weather sucks but are you seriously saying no one would voluntarily want to live in Germany and the only reason are €€€?
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On January 11 2016 02:34 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 02:32 WhiteDog wrote:On January 11 2016 01:46 Nyxisto wrote:
It's theft to enable people to freely choose the country they want to live and work in? A fence to keep the refugees out and now fences to keep the Spaniards in? Is that the solution to every problem of the contemporary left and right "no matter the problem, just build a fence!"? So for you, it's freedom that pushed Syrian to go live in Germany, and it's freedom that push Italian and Greeks to go work in Germany. I'll give a tip, if it was only about freedom, everybody would go and live in the south of Italy, because god damn it's beautiful, the weather is nice and the girls are goddess.. No, Syrians are fleeing from a war, I think we can agree on that. But I that there are many Italians and Greeks that like to go to Germany, and everybody who wants to shouldn't be stopped from doing so in any direct or indirect way. Yeah and well the German weather sucks but are you seriously saying no one would voluntarily want to live in Germany and the only reason are €€€?
Tell me, is it freedom that leads Spanish and portuguese to Angola ? German weather sucking or not, most people don't want to migrate and do for economic reasons, nothing to do with freedom. This much should be pretty easy to acknowledge.
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On January 11 2016 02:34 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 02:32 WhiteDog wrote:On January 11 2016 01:46 Nyxisto wrote:
It's theft to enable people to freely choose the country they want to live and work in? A fence to keep the refugees out and now fences to keep the Spaniards in? Is that the solution to every problem of the contemporary left and right "no matter the problem, just build a fence!"? So for you, it's freedom that pushed Syrian to go live in Germany, and it's freedom that push Italian and Greeks to go work in Germany. I'll give a tip, if it was only about freedom, everybody would go and live in the south of Italy, because god damn it's beautiful, the weather is nice and the girls are goddess.. No, Syrians are fleeing from a war, I think we can agree on that. But I that there are many Italians and Greeks that like to go to Germany, and everybody who wants to shouldn't be stopped from doing so in any direct or indirect way. Yeah and well the German weather sucks but are you seriously saying no one would voluntarily want to live in Germany and the only reason are €€€?
Well, from experience now that i moved away from germany.. Yeah, i'd actually agree with that. Not that there's something wrong with that either, though.
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When the Greek economy collapsed there was a lot of young Greeks coming to Sweden. Problem was there wasn't very many jobs available here either and they are only allowed to stay for 3 months so most were forced to go home.
I know Spanish people who are/were here working.
If workers were needed I guarantee you could do like Sweden did with the Balkans/Turkey in the past, just advertise. Set up a local office where people can apply for job, give them temporary apartments for 6 months and you would have all the workers you needed.
We still import Portuguese dentists to northern Sweden from time to time doing this exact thing (most don't stay that long though).
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On January 11 2016 02:37 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 02:34 Nyxisto wrote:On January 11 2016 02:32 WhiteDog wrote:On January 11 2016 01:46 Nyxisto wrote:
It's theft to enable people to freely choose the country they want to live and work in? A fence to keep the refugees out and now fences to keep the Spaniards in? Is that the solution to every problem of the contemporary left and right "no matter the problem, just build a fence!"? So for you, it's freedom that pushed Syrian to go live in Germany, and it's freedom that push Italian and Greeks to go work in Germany. I'll give a tip, if it was only about freedom, everybody would go and live in the south of Italy, because god damn it's beautiful, the weather is nice and the girls are goddess.. No, Syrians are fleeing from a war, I think we can agree on that. But I that there are many Italians and Greeks that like to go to Germany, and everybody who wants to shouldn't be stopped from doing so in any direct or indirect way. Yeah and well the German weather sucks but are you seriously saying no one would voluntarily want to live in Germany and the only reason are €€€? Tell me, is it freedom that leads Spanish and portuguese to Angola ? German weather sucking or not, most people don't want to migrate and do for economic reasons, nothing to do with freedom. This much should be pretty easy to acknowledge.
I already agree with you that especially with the economic situation right now people are also moving for financial reasons alone. But the question is, are we supposed to make policies that interfere with the right of the individual to freely chose a country to live and work in or are we not, and I say we shouldn't. Giving up the Euro or withdrawing from European institutions that give young people these options would be one thing that would have that effect. It seems to me like a way to cage young people in their birthplace because the local institutions are unable to provide an environment that is attractive enough by itself.
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On January 11 2016 02:43 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 02:37 WhiteDog wrote:On January 11 2016 02:34 Nyxisto wrote:On January 11 2016 02:32 WhiteDog wrote:On January 11 2016 01:46 Nyxisto wrote:
It's theft to enable people to freely choose the country they want to live and work in? A fence to keep the refugees out and now fences to keep the Spaniards in? Is that the solution to every problem of the contemporary left and right "no matter the problem, just build a fence!"? So for you, it's freedom that pushed Syrian to go live in Germany, and it's freedom that push Italian and Greeks to go work in Germany. I'll give a tip, if it was only about freedom, everybody would go and live in the south of Italy, because god damn it's beautiful, the weather is nice and the girls are goddess.. No, Syrians are fleeing from a war, I think we can agree on that. But I that there are many Italians and Greeks that like to go to Germany, and everybody who wants to shouldn't be stopped from doing so in any direct or indirect way. Yeah and well the German weather sucks but are you seriously saying no one would voluntarily want to live in Germany and the only reason are €€€? Tell me, is it freedom that leads Spanish and portuguese to Angola ? German weather sucking or not, most people don't want to migrate and do for economic reasons, nothing to do with freedom. This much should be pretty easy to acknowledge. I already agree with you that especially with the economic situation right now people are also moving for financial reasons alone. But the question is, are we supposed to make policies that interfere with the right of the individual to freely chose a country to live in work or are we not, and I say we shouldn't. Giving up the Euro or withdrawing from European institutions that give young people these options would be one thing that would have that effect. It seems to me like a way to cage young people in their birthplace because the local institutions are unable to provide an environment that is attractive enough by itself.
You conflating many topics, a currency on one side, the freedom to migrate on the other, and the fact that some country have been stealing the labor force from others, in europe and outside europe (France is part of those countries). It's not the local institutions that are unattractive, but rather the european and the international institutions that create a state of dependancy, dominants and dominated, etc.
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On January 11 2016 02:37 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 02:34 Nyxisto wrote:On January 11 2016 02:32 WhiteDog wrote:On January 11 2016 01:46 Nyxisto wrote:
It's theft to enable people to freely choose the country they want to live and work in? A fence to keep the refugees out and now fences to keep the Spaniards in? Is that the solution to every problem of the contemporary left and right "no matter the problem, just build a fence!"? So for you, it's freedom that pushed Syrian to go live in Germany, and it's freedom that push Italian and Greeks to go work in Germany. I'll give a tip, if it was only about freedom, everybody would go and live in the south of Italy, because god damn it's beautiful, the weather is nice and the girls are goddess.. No, Syrians are fleeing from a war, I think we can agree on that. But I that there are many Italians and Greeks that like to go to Germany, and everybody who wants to shouldn't be stopped from doing so in any direct or indirect way. Yeah and well the German weather sucks but are you seriously saying no one would voluntarily want to live in Germany and the only reason are €€€? Tell me, is it freedom that leads Spanish and portuguese to Angola ? German weather sucking or not, most people don't want to migrate and do for economic reasons, nothing to do with freedom. This much should be pretty easy to acknowledge.
They have the freedom to migrate for economic reasons. The government isnt building a fence around the country to stop them from leaving. Their family will not be throw into prison if they leave the country.
The freedom to leave if you so desire, for whatever reason.
No western citizen moves for 'freedom' (whatever that even means) there is always an underlying reason (economic, relations ect).
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EPT
