EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 376
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 11 2016 05:51 AngryMag wrote: Oh they are running strong with it: http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/s-p-o-n-der-kritiker-a-1071310.html http://www.n-tv.de/politik/Was-Koeln-mit-dem-Islam-nicht-zu-tun-hat-article16718251.html http://www.zeit.de/politik/deutschland/2016-01/sexuelle-gewalt-situation-frauen-alltag http://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeitgeschehen/2016-01/koeln-silvester-uebergriffe-medien http://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/zusammenleben-die-welt-wird-nicht-untergehen-kolumne-a-1070749.html https://www.jungewelt.de/2016/01-06/032.php http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Politik/d/7889772/hamburgs-gruenen-vize-sorgt-fuer-proteststurm.html What all this press releases have in common is that they don't speak about the actual happenings but about other stuff, like violence against women in general or they tell us not to make such fuss about it etc, they are either deflecting or belittling the issue. Not one of the authors is able to call a spade a spade. You can find dozens of these articles, embarassing. I don't need an ideologically coluored press, informing me about things in a halfway impartial way would be fine. Some commentary regarding our media landscape I largely agree with: http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/fluechtlinge-und-medien-erziehungs-rundfunk-kolumne-a-1070501.html The propaganda slogan from the right wing regarding "Lügenpresse" didn't exactly start in a vacuum. Our media tries it's very best to keep that accusation going, feeding it, keeping it on the first page. The utter neglect of the story in the first days (I don't need a press that just copies the press releases from the institutions, that's Hofberichterstattung) and then denying the causes (like a fucked up picture of women in many muslimic societies) not sure if sarcasm or not... the irony in that sentence is just through the roof | ||
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AngryMag
Germany1040 Posts
On January 11 2016 04:50 Toadesstern wrote: is the propaganda in this case the tweets from angry people? I'm really not sure if I even get what you're on about. If that's what you're getting at: You see (at least) 2 VERY MUCH mainstream print-media telling the story the way you want it and a couple readers + journalists tweeting angrily? That's not propaganda. Or are you saying the original SZ + Focus report was propaganda? Either way I don't really see it because you're either calling Spiegel evil while saying SZ + Focus are good or the other way around, right? And all 3 are part of that group of media you just flat out called out on using propaganda. Or I'm misunderstanding you massively. The critique isn't pointed towards one specific magazine. I am very dissatisfied with the press and it's answer as a whole. I used the example you quoted to emphasize the point that the media is busy deflecting the issue. They don't talk about a mob sexually assaulting women on a big scale, they are busy working themselves through an issue literally noone outside os some college campuses cares about namely if a cover is appropiate or not. Deflection. The belittling I see because every single bigger outlet calls the crimes an "incident". An incident is me letting my bottle of beer falling to the ground. A mass sexual assault is a very serious crime and should be named accordingly (so far over 500 offences reported to the police in Cologne alone, more than half of them with a sexual background like for example sexual assault). The denial thing I see in the utter incapability of many news outlets to say that this sexual assaults might have anything to do with a fucked up view of women as third grade citizens prevalent in most muslimic societies. Instead we get deflections like how every male is a potential rapist blablabla. I see propaganda because most major news outlets use linguistic tools (like calling the crimes an incident, extrapolating from the criminals to men as a whole, deflecting from the issue through mixing other themes in) to achieve a specific answer in their viewer or reader and that answer is, "it wasn't that bad and has nothing to do with refugees and their social norms and values and if you are male you are a potential rapist anyway so shut up". I wouldn't call it such if we had a wide array of different views presented to us. I don't think that this is the case, 90% of the stuff looks like they copied it from each other. | ||
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AngryMag
Germany1040 Posts
On January 11 2016 05:59 Toadesstern wrote: not sure if sarcasm or not... the irony in that sentence is just through the roof Yeah you have a point here  | ||
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
On January 11 2016 05:52 Nyxisto wrote: Well I don't really know what kind of coverage you expected but I don't see what the ARD or ZDF tried to hide. That this took two days to take off in the media over new years eve has nothing do to with a conspiracy, news outlets over holidays aren't exactly fully stuffed and usually like to verify things before they publish. As to the media in general, this is one of Germany's more liberal newspapers, so I really don't see how anyone can claim that they're treating this issue with kid gloves. here is a commentary (in german) that describes the problem: http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/medien/oeffentlich-rechtliche-regie-wer-zur-gewalt-in-koeln-nicht-gefragt-ist-14004450.html summary: - briefing their interview partners and threatening them to terminate the interview immediately if refugees are mentioned - dismissing reports from victims and police officers as "highly uncertain and probably just cliche". - claiming completely baseless things to put the nye attacks into perspective. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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hfglgg
Germany5372 Posts
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dismiss
United Kingdom3341 Posts
On January 11 2016 06:35 Nyxisto wrote: Not very nice things to do but our public news agencies employ over 20k people with a 7 billion budget. Overall they went with the exact same stories the private news did. That some people interfered in a way that shouldn't happen given how we define journalism is bad but not every incident is a systemic issue or intentional. You do go to quite the length to try and explain any argument from the anti uncontrolled immigration side away/try to relativise it. I'd suggest you reflect on this behaviour because right now you're excusing censorship since the opposite is detrimental to your political beliefs.  Y'know or maybe I am missing a way in which you can unintentionally tell someone you'll cut the interview short the second he mentions refugees. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On January 11 2016 07:01 dismiss wrote: You do go to quite the length to try and explain any argument from the anti uncontrolled immigration side away/try to relativise it. I'd suggest you reflect on this behaviour because right now you're excusing censorship since the opposite is detrimental to your political beliefs. Y'know or maybe I am missing a way in which you can unintentionally tell someone you'll cut the interview short the second he mentions refugees. that's not the point he made though. You have large groups of people here that claim that everything (literally) in the mainstream media is made up lies to make PEGIDA look bad and in reality they're all super cool dudes and stuff like that. In this particular example the three links provided (Focus, SZ, faz) to show examples of what happens when some try to divert from the propaganda (the critique online from readers / other journalists I guess) has those 3 involved and they're part of that group of mainstream media. Of course there's some shit going on and it's right to call that shit out and be angry about it. But it's just not some conspiracy-theorists wet dream where literally every single mainstream media outlet is working together to purposely create propaganda. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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dismiss
United Kingdom3341 Posts
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SoSexy
Italy3725 Posts
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nitram
Canada5412 Posts
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
On January 11 2016 07:57 Nyxisto wrote: Yep all I was saying is that we're not being governed by the Communist party. There is no systemic propaganda or intentional manipulation. Single journalists trying to put their spin on stories doesn't imply that you can't trust the media, especially given the clowncar that the "alternative media" scene is. It's because we're in a system were the government doesn't need to. Journalists know very well what they can say and what they can't. Job pressure, peer pressure, politically correctness pressure, and you have a generation of journalists who simply aren't journalists. The very fact it took 5 days for the rape fests all over europe to go public is proof enough. I imagine all the journalists who knew, but "if I publish this I'll become a racist §§" When the media did get around to reporting the story they covered it in that now-familiar way which suggests their job is not so much to report the facts as to negotiate between the facts and their fear over how the general public might react to those facts. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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Narw
Poland884 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15741 Posts
On January 11 2016 09:56 Nyxisto wrote: While we're at facts, can we stop talking about "rape fests" or "mass rape", we're talking about sexual assault and theft here, not rape. I have the feeling with every page in this thread the crimes and number of offenders multiply I don't see "sexual assault" as even slightly more tolerable than rape. Unwanted sexual aggression is terrible no matter how you try to spin it. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
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RenSC2
United States1081 Posts
On January 11 2016 10:26 Mohdoo wrote: I don't see "sexual assault" as even slightly more tolerable than rape. Unwanted sexual aggression is terrible no matter how you try to spin it. I'm not so sure about that. If some dude grabbed my junk, I'd be angry, but I doubt I'd be as upset as if some guy bent me over and penetrated me. Luckily, I haven't experienced either, but I definitely see them as different. I have had women grab my ass in clubs while they were passing by. Haven't ever pressed charges on that one... although I'm not really upset by that one at all. | ||
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