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On January 11 2016 10:46 MrCon wrote:
Rape isn't only putting your penis in a vagina. If you prefer we use sexual assault because it looks more tolerable, no. I don't want this behavior to become more tolerable, so I'll keep using words that makes it look like it is : ugly and despicable.
No, rape as a legal offense is limited to forced penetration, at least in the majority of European countries. And obviously there is a legal and factual difference between groping or assaulting someone and raping someone, don't be ridiculous.
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On January 11 2016 10:26 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 09:56 Nyxisto wrote:
While we're at facts, can we stop talking about "rape fests" or "mass rape", we're talking about sexual assault and theft here, not rape. I have the feeling with every page in this thread the crimes and number of offenders multiply I don't see "sexual assault" as even slightly more tolerable than rape. Unwanted sexual aggression is terrible no matter how you try to spin it.
LMAAAAAOOOOO
Assuming you're not trolling, sexual assault is much milder than rape. One is less severe legally and for the psyche of a woman.
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On January 11 2016 10:48 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 10:26 Mohdoo wrote:On January 11 2016 09:56 Nyxisto wrote:
While we're at facts, can we stop talking about "rape fests" or "mass rape", we're talking about sexual assault and theft here, not rape. I have the feeling with every page in this thread the crimes and number of offenders multiply I don't see "sexual assault" as even slightly more tolerable than rape. Unwanted sexual aggression is terrible no matter how you try to spin it. LMAAAAAOOOOO Assuming you're not trolling, sexual assault is much milder than rape. One is less severe legally and for the psyche of a woman.
Sure, less severe, that's obvious. But in terms of what we should be willing to tolerate an increase of, no, they are both intolerable. You're responding to something I didn't say. All I spoke to was how tolerable they each are.
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On January 11 2016 11:29 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 10:48 Deathstar wrote:On January 11 2016 10:26 Mohdoo wrote:On January 11 2016 09:56 Nyxisto wrote:
While we're at facts, can we stop talking about "rape fests" or "mass rape", we're talking about sexual assault and theft here, not rape. I have the feeling with every page in this thread the crimes and number of offenders multiply I don't see "sexual assault" as even slightly more tolerable than rape. Unwanted sexual aggression is terrible no matter how you try to spin it. LMAAAAAOOOOO Assuming you're not trolling, sexual assault is much milder than rape. One is less severe legally and for the psyche of a woman. Sure, less severe, that's obvious. But in terms of what we should be willing to tolerate an increase of, no, they are both intolerable. You're responding to something I didn't say. All I spoke to was how tolerable they each are.
Sexual assault is clearly more tolerable than rape, considering there is a gap between one and the other in terms of damage done.
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On January 11 2016 11:41 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 11:29 Mohdoo wrote:On January 11 2016 10:48 Deathstar wrote:On January 11 2016 10:26 Mohdoo wrote:On January 11 2016 09:56 Nyxisto wrote:
While we're at facts, can we stop talking about "rape fests" or "mass rape", we're talking about sexual assault and theft here, not rape. I have the feeling with every page in this thread the crimes and number of offenders multiply I don't see "sexual assault" as even slightly more tolerable than rape. Unwanted sexual aggression is terrible no matter how you try to spin it. LMAAAAAOOOOO Assuming you're not trolling, sexual assault is much milder than rape. One is less severe legally and for the psyche of a woman. Sure, less severe, that's obvious. But in terms of what we should be willing to tolerate an increase of, no, they are both intolerable. You're responding to something I didn't say. All I spoke to was how tolerable they each are. Sexual assault is clearly more tolerable than rape, considering there is a gap between one and the other in terms of damage done.
stop saying something generally terrible is tolerable. even if in principle you are - somewhat - right. getting run over by a small car is more tolerable than by a truck.
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On January 11 2016 12:41 Doublemint wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 11:41 Deathstar wrote:On January 11 2016 11:29 Mohdoo wrote:On January 11 2016 10:48 Deathstar wrote:On January 11 2016 10:26 Mohdoo wrote:On January 11 2016 09:56 Nyxisto wrote:
While we're at facts, can we stop talking about "rape fests" or "mass rape", we're talking about sexual assault and theft here, not rape. I have the feeling with every page in this thread the crimes and number of offenders multiply I don't see "sexual assault" as even slightly more tolerable than rape. Unwanted sexual aggression is terrible no matter how you try to spin it. LMAAAAAOOOOO Assuming you're not trolling, sexual assault is much milder than rape. One is less severe legally and for the psyche of a woman. Sure, less severe, that's obvious. But in terms of what we should be willing to tolerate an increase of, no, they are both intolerable. You're responding to something I didn't say. All I spoke to was how tolerable they each are. Sexual assault is clearly more tolerable than rape, considering there is a gap between one and the other in terms of damage done. stop saying something generally terrible is tolerable. even if in principle you are - somewhat - right. getting run over by a small car is more tolerable than by a truck.
Listen. If we had 40 cases of rape as opposed to 40 cases of sexual assault or whatever, the story regarding new year eve will be vastly different.
Sexual assault IS more tolerable than rape, and it's not like getting run over by different vehicles because in both cases you're getting run over. More like, in one case a car bumps you and in another a car runs you over. We don't want cars to be bumping people but that's better than cars running people over.
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the story will not be vastly different... public perception does not work that way.
the story on many people's mind will basically be - (illegal?) muslims molesting our women on NYE(and say thanks for our humanitarian efforts). that _only_ a handful or 40 women got raped is completely irrelevant.
add to that the slow and inadequate response of the police, including the gag order they received by the politicians in power in cologne. mix that with a generally decent enough media that had a good eye on pegida, but somewhat of a blind spot for problematic events regarding refugees. up to this day we have no clear picture of what happened on NYE. just a steady stream of new complaints being filed with he police.
it's like they are inadvertently doing the right wings work for them.
there are a lot of important local elections this year in germany as well...
now, to draw a bridge to the US because there is a very important election this year, watch trump&friends abuse the shit out of that story in the upcoming republican debate.
and I still find my analogy pretty sound.
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On January 11 2016 10:38 Nyxisto wrote:
sexual assault can be anything from groping to trying to coerce you to sex, discriminating or insulting you based on your gender and so on. Rape is forced penetration. Those offenses are all terrible but definitely not the same.
if a sexual assault is done in a group it gets the same sentence as rape in germany because the effect on the woman is equally terrible. i have already written it a couple of times but people seem to overlook it because it doesnt fit their world view in this case.
so if you are attacking a woman with 5 guys and grope her ass, you are going to rape prison.
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On January 11 2016 14:13 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 12:41 Doublemint wrote:On January 11 2016 11:41 Deathstar wrote:On January 11 2016 11:29 Mohdoo wrote:On January 11 2016 10:48 Deathstar wrote:On January 11 2016 10:26 Mohdoo wrote:On January 11 2016 09:56 Nyxisto wrote:
While we're at facts, can we stop talking about "rape fests" or "mass rape", we're talking about sexual assault and theft here, not rape. I have the feeling with every page in this thread the crimes and number of offenders multiply I don't see "sexual assault" as even slightly more tolerable than rape. Unwanted sexual aggression is terrible no matter how you try to spin it. LMAAAAAOOOOO Assuming you're not trolling, sexual assault is much milder than rape. One is less severe legally and for the psyche of a woman. Sure, less severe, that's obvious. But in terms of what we should be willing to tolerate an increase of, no, they are both intolerable. You're responding to something I didn't say. All I spoke to was how tolerable they each are. Sexual assault is clearly more tolerable than rape, considering there is a gap between one and the other in terms of damage done. stop saying something generally terrible is tolerable. even if in principle you are - somewhat - right. getting run over by a small car is more tolerable than by a truck. Listen. If we had 40 cases of rape as opposed to 40 cases of sexual assault or whatever, the story regarding new year eve will be vastly different. Sexual assault IS more tolerable than rape, and it's not like getting run over by different vehicles because in both cases you're getting run over. More like, in one case a car bumps you and in another a car runs you over. We don't want cars to be bumping people but that's better than cars running people over.
Yeah. More tolerable, still enough to deport those animals.
And btw, every person that tries to justify what happened, or talk the issue smaller than it is, is a fucking idiot. You included.
In other news, remember when i said that you know shit is wrong if you start thinking that the US idea of "redneck militias" starts to be appealing?
I was kinda right and wrong.
http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Politik/d/7891238/unbekannte-machen--menschenjagd--auf-auslaender.html
I think it's retarded, but i also think that our politicians are to blame. For people that don't speak german:
Groups of Hooligans, bouncers and rockers organised via facebook, and then met in cologne for a "human hunt". Police doesn't know yet if it was a direct result of NYE, or if it is racism (i guess we can argue in this case, that revenge would be like a car bumping people instead of running them over).
And, keep in mind, the real fun will start in 3 weeks - Karneval is big in germany, with two cities standing far and above in case of party: cologne and dusseldorf (the two main actors on NYE), are the karneval-centrals, with many visitors from across germany etc.
I'm not looking forward to that.
Rape is forced penetration.
Bullshit. Correct would be, penetration is ALWAYS rape. That doesn't mean that nothing else is rape. Not even by law.
Here.
(1) Wer eine andere Person
1.
mit Gewalt,
2.
durch Drohung mit gegenwärtiger Gefahr für Leib oder Leben oder
3.
unter Ausnutzung einer Lage, in der das Opfer der Einwirkung des Täters schutzlos ausgeliefert ist,
nötigt, sexuelle Handlungen des Täters oder eines Dritten an sich zu dulden oder an dem Täter oder einem Dritten vorzunehmen, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter einem Jahr bestraft.
(2) In besonders schweren Fällen ist die Strafe Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter zwei Jahren. Ein besonders schwerer Fall liegt in der Regel vor, wenn
1.
der Täter mit dem Opfer den Beischlaf vollzieht oder ähnliche sexuelle Handlungen an dem Opfer vornimmt oder an sich von ihm vornehmen läßt, die dieses besonders erniedrigen, insbesondere, wenn sie mit einem Eindringen in den Körper verbunden sind (Vergewaltigung), oder
2.
die Tat von mehreren gemeinschaftlich begangen wird.
(3) Auf Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter drei Jahren ist zu erkennen, wenn der Täter
1.
eine Waffe oder ein anderes gefährliches Werkzeug bei sich führt,
2.
sonst ein Werkzeug oder Mittel bei sich führt, um den Widerstand einer anderen Person durch Gewalt oder Drohung mit Gewalt zu verhindern oder zu überwinden, oder
3.
das Opfer durch die Tat in die Gefahr einer schweren Gesundheitsschädigung bringt.
That's §177 STGB. Look closely at 2.1 and 2.2. Forced penetration and group groping get punished with the same sentence.
Can we stop fucking around now how much more tolerable it is?
edit: ah i understand, it doesn't matter that it's not called "Vergewaltigung" (which is btw debatable with the german definition, which clearly states that "Dabei kommt es nicht darauf an, ob in den Körper des Opfers oder den des Täters eingedrungen wird."). It's as bad as that. Not more tolerable or less of a crime (in fact, it gets the same sentence as someone who pushs a woman down and sticks it in).
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On January 11 2016 15:34 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 14:13 Deathstar wrote:On January 11 2016 12:41 Doublemint wrote:On January 11 2016 11:41 Deathstar wrote:On January 11 2016 11:29 Mohdoo wrote:On January 11 2016 10:48 Deathstar wrote:On January 11 2016 10:26 Mohdoo wrote:On January 11 2016 09:56 Nyxisto wrote:
While we're at facts, can we stop talking about "rape fests" or "mass rape", we're talking about sexual assault and theft here, not rape. I have the feeling with every page in this thread the crimes and number of offenders multiply I don't see "sexual assault" as even slightly more tolerable than rape. Unwanted sexual aggression is terrible no matter how you try to spin it. LMAAAAAOOOOO Assuming you're not trolling, sexual assault is much milder than rape. One is less severe legally and for the psyche of a woman. Sure, less severe, that's obvious. But in terms of what we should be willing to tolerate an increase of, no, they are both intolerable. You're responding to something I didn't say. All I spoke to was how tolerable they each are. Sexual assault is clearly more tolerable than rape, considering there is a gap between one and the other in terms of damage done. stop saying something generally terrible is tolerable. even if in principle you are - somewhat - right. getting run over by a small car is more tolerable than by a truck. Listen. If we had 40 cases of rape as opposed to 40 cases of sexual assault or whatever, the story regarding new year eve will be vastly different. Sexual assault IS more tolerable than rape, and it's not like getting run over by different vehicles because in both cases you're getting run over. More like, in one case a car bumps you and in another a car runs you over. We don't want cars to be bumping people but that's better than cars running people over. Yeah. More tolerable, still enough to deport those animals. And btw, every person that tries to justify what happened, or talk the issue smaller than it is, is a fucking idiot. You included. In other news, remember when i said that you know shit is wrong if you start thinking that the US idea of "redneck militias" starts to be appealing? I was kinda right and wrong. http://www.n24.de/n24/Nachrichten/Politik/d/7891238/unbekannte-machen--menschenjagd--auf-auslaender.htmlI think it's retarded, but i also think that our politicians are to blame. For people that don't speak german: Groups of Hooligans, bouncers and rockers organised via facebook, and then met in cologne for a "human hunt". Police doesn't know yet if it was a direct result of NYE, or if it is racism (i guess we can argue in this case, that revenge would be like a car bumping people instead of running them over). And, keep in mind, the real fun will start in 3 weeks - Karneval is big in germany, with two cities standing far and above in case of party: cologne and dusseldorf (the two main actors on NYE), are the karneval-centrals, with many visitors from across germany etc. I'm not looking forward to that. Bullshit. Correct would be, penetration is ALWAYS rape. That doesn't mean that nothing else is rape. Not even by law. Here. Show nested quote +(1) Wer eine andere Person
1.
mit Gewalt,
2.
durch Drohung mit gegenwärtiger Gefahr für Leib oder Leben oder
3.
unter Ausnutzung einer Lage, in der das Opfer der Einwirkung des Täters schutzlos ausgeliefert ist,
nötigt, sexuelle Handlungen des Täters oder eines Dritten an sich zu dulden oder an dem Täter oder einem Dritten vorzunehmen, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter einem Jahr bestraft.
(2) In besonders schweren Fällen ist die Strafe Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter zwei Jahren. Ein besonders schwerer Fall liegt in der Regel vor, wenn
1.
der Täter mit dem Opfer den Beischlaf vollzieht oder ähnliche sexuelle Handlungen an dem Opfer vornimmt oder an sich von ihm vornehmen läßt, die dieses besonders erniedrigen, insbesondere, wenn sie mit einem Eindringen in den Körper verbunden sind (Vergewaltigung), oder
2.
die Tat von mehreren gemeinschaftlich begangen wird.
(3) Auf Freiheitsstrafe nicht unter drei Jahren ist zu erkennen, wenn der Täter
1.
eine Waffe oder ein anderes gefährliches Werkzeug bei sich führt,
2.
sonst ein Werkzeug oder Mittel bei sich führt, um den Widerstand einer anderen Person durch Gewalt oder Drohung mit Gewalt zu verhindern oder zu überwinden, oder
3.
das Opfer durch die Tat in die Gefahr einer schweren Gesundheitsschädigung bringt. That's §177 STGB. Look closely at 2.1 and 2.2. Forced penetration and group groping get punished with the same sentence. Can we stop fucking around now how much more tolerable it is? edit: ah i understand, it doesn't matter that it's not called "Vergewaltigung" (which is btw debatable with the german definition, which clearly states that "Dabei kommt es nicht darauf an, ob in den Körper des Opfers oder den des Täters eingedrungen wird."). It's as bad as that. Not more tolerable or less of a crime (in fact, it gets the same sentence as someone who pushs a woman down and sticks it in).
Nothing will happen during "Karneval" : police will be everywhere, maybe even military who knows. Everybody will be safe.
On January 11 2016 08:19 SoSexy wrote:
We literally get to know if a monkey shat in a zoo in China and it's 'normal' we get to know about mass rapes in Germany after 3/4 days. Idk man
Hahaha that's awfully true. Circular information at its best : it is not necessarily ideology that lead newspapers to put aside the sexual assaults, but the fact that other journals didn't talk about it. Most newspapers take others newspapers and repeat it, with little or almost no ground work. If the few newspapers that actually do work decide to put an information aside, then it's kinda invisible from the news. And if a big newspapers or a TV decide to relay an information, then it's everywhere for a few days.
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On January 11 2016 15:34 m4ini wrote:
Can we stop fucking around now how much more tolerable it is?
edit: ah i understand, it doesn't matter that it's not called "Vergewaltigung" (which is btw debatable with the german definition, which clearly states that "Dabei kommt es nicht darauf an, ob in den Körper des Opfers oder den des Täters eingedrungen wird."). It's as bad as that. Not more tolerable or less of a crime (in fact, it gets the same sentence as someone who pushs a woman down and sticks it in).
The difference is simply that these incidents look very much like the perpetrators organized beforehand and used sexual and physical intimidation to pickpocket and steal, given the high amounts of theft and assault reported, which is very different from 'mass rape' in terms of how policy makers should respond to this incident.
To act like this was some sexual driven mania seems out of touch with reality. It look like organized robbing. We're simply going to need more police in the future, and not a discussion about whether every immigrant is a dangerous sex offender.
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On January 11 2016 16:02 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 15:34 m4ini wrote:
Can we stop fucking around now how much more tolerable it is?
edit: ah i understand, it doesn't matter that it's not called "Vergewaltigung" (which is btw debatable with the german definition, which clearly states that "Dabei kommt es nicht darauf an, ob in den Körper des Opfers oder den des Täters eingedrungen wird."). It's as bad as that. Not more tolerable or less of a crime (in fact, it gets the same sentence as someone who pushs a woman down and sticks it in). The difference is simply that these incidents look very much like the perpetrators organized beforehand and used sexual and physical intimidation to pickpocket and steal, given the high amounts of theft and assault reported, which is very different from 'mass rape' in terms of how policy makers should respond to this incident. To act like this was some sexual driven mania seems out of touch with reality. It look like organized robbing. We're simply going to need more police in the future, and not a discussion about whether every immigrant is a dangerous sex offender.
Except that the cologne police is clearly stating that it was primarily sexual assault, and not pick pocketing. Which should be clear, considering that the north africans that took the blame are the pick-pocketers, not the syrians. And those north africans were (again, quote) "the small minority" on NYE. So one would need to ask who exactly here is out of touch with reality.
Happy birthday btw.
Nothing will happen during "Karneval" : police will be everywhere.
First of all, german police is understaffed, there's not enough officers to "be everywhere", and second of all, do you think there wasn't any police patrolling on NYE? Like any mass-collection of people, there was plenty police (and contradictory to what the media says, they did their job as good as they could - they were thrown under the bus by the chief of police etc).
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that was dismissed days ago. from refugees taken in custody by the police we know by now (actually since wednesday or something like that) that for a lot of those animals the "sexual amusement" was the driving force and the thefts only an extra. not to mention that the behaviour is well documented in arabian countries but i guess you dont want to see that.
it would help if you stop being ideological and start using your brain tbh.
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On January 11 2016 16:07 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 16:02 Nyxisto wrote:On January 11 2016 15:34 m4ini wrote:
Can we stop fucking around now how much more tolerable it is?
edit: ah i understand, it doesn't matter that it's not called "Vergewaltigung" (which is btw debatable with the german definition, which clearly states that "Dabei kommt es nicht darauf an, ob in den Körper des Opfers oder den des Täters eingedrungen wird."). It's as bad as that. Not more tolerable or less of a crime (in fact, it gets the same sentence as someone who pushs a woman down and sticks it in). The difference is simply that these incidents look very much like the perpetrators organized beforehand and used sexual and physical intimidation to pickpocket and steal, given the high amounts of theft and assault reported, which is very different from 'mass rape' in terms of how policy makers should respond to this incident. To act like this was some sexual driven mania seems out of touch with reality. It look like organized robbing. We're simply going to need more police in the future, and not a discussion about whether every immigrant is a dangerous sex offender. Except that the cologne police is clearly stating that it was primarily sexual assault, and not pick pocketing. Which should be clear, considering that the north africans that took the blame are the pick-pocketers, not the syrians. And those north africans were (again, quote) "the small minority" on NYE. So one would need to ask who exactly here is out of touch with reality. Happy birthday btw. First of all, german police is understaffed, there's not enough officers to "be everywhere", and second of all, do you think there wasn't any police patrolling on NYE? Like any mass-collection of people, there was plenty police (and contradictory to what the media says, they did their job as good as they could - they were thrown under the bus by the chief of police etc).
I didn't know that. In France, since the increase of racial tensions (and the event at Charlie) we have policemen everywhere, the army in each station and before most private schools (like jewish schools).
I believe the police will have a clear mandate from its hierarchy to react, even violently, to any kind of assault or tension during Karneval.
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the police can deal with those things, at nye in cologne they simply didnt want to. most likely because the picture of thousands of violent refugees being beaten up by a massive police force using waterthrowers and tear gas (like they did at the pegida demo two days ago) wasnt something the politics wanted to see.
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On January 11 2016 16:18 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 16:07 m4ini wrote:On January 11 2016 16:02 Nyxisto wrote:On January 11 2016 15:34 m4ini wrote:
Can we stop fucking around now how much more tolerable it is?
edit: ah i understand, it doesn't matter that it's not called "Vergewaltigung" (which is btw debatable with the german definition, which clearly states that "Dabei kommt es nicht darauf an, ob in den Körper des Opfers oder den des Täters eingedrungen wird."). It's as bad as that. Not more tolerable or less of a crime (in fact, it gets the same sentence as someone who pushs a woman down and sticks it in). The difference is simply that these incidents look very much like the perpetrators organized beforehand and used sexual and physical intimidation to pickpocket and steal, given the high amounts of theft and assault reported, which is very different from 'mass rape' in terms of how policy makers should respond to this incident. To act like this was some sexual driven mania seems out of touch with reality. It look like organized robbing. We're simply going to need more police in the future, and not a discussion about whether every immigrant is a dangerous sex offender. Except that the cologne police is clearly stating that it was primarily sexual assault, and not pick pocketing. Which should be clear, considering that the north africans that took the blame are the pick-pocketers, not the syrians. And those north africans were (again, quote) "the small minority" on NYE. So one would need to ask who exactly here is out of touch with reality. Happy birthday btw. Nothing will happen during "Karneval" : police will be everywhere.
First of all, german police is understaffed, there's not enough officers to "be everywhere", and second of all, do you think there wasn't any police patrolling on NYE? Like any mass-collection of people, there was plenty police (and contradictory to what the media says, they did their job as good as they could - they were thrown under the bus by the chief of police etc). I didn't know that. In France, since the increase of racial tensions (and the event at Charlie) we have policemen everywhere, the army in each station and before most private schools (like jewish schools). I believe the police will have a clear mandate from its hierarchy to react, even violently, to any kind of assault or tension during Karneval.
I wish that was the case, but there's a pattern to be seen.
Police speakers (and the chief of police who was forced to resign because of it just a few days back) show a very different approach. I don't want to say they're briefed, but it's clear as anything that arabs in general, syrian refugees especially get the "soft hand approach".
German police is not known to be violent anyway (even though in case of rapists, or "group molesters", i think a nice "fall down the stairs-treatment" is always welcome). And the most ironic part is: german police is understaffed because the government wanted what we call "the black zero" in their books. Which is now used to argue that we're rich enough to accomodate all the refugees.
edit: btw, the reaction of colognes mayor was "to be safe, always keep an arms length distance between men and yourself". Was already heavily ridiculed by pretty much anyone, so i don't need to do it - it just feels like our "hierarchy" is oddly out of touch with reality. Like, not even there.
the police can deal with those things, at nye in cologne they simply didnt want to
That's btw also not true. They did everything as they were supposed to, or rather, what lied in their powers. That's why they're going anonymously to medias now, because they feel like "bad guys" after what the media reported after NYE. Which was far from reality.
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On January 11 2016 16:18 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On January 11 2016 16:07 m4ini wrote:On January 11 2016 16:02 Nyxisto wrote:On January 11 2016 15:34 m4ini wrote:
Can we stop fucking around now how much more tolerable it is?
edit: ah i understand, it doesn't matter that it's not called "Vergewaltigung" (which is btw debatable with the german definition, which clearly states that "Dabei kommt es nicht darauf an, ob in den Körper des Opfers oder den des Täters eingedrungen wird."). It's as bad as that. Not more tolerable or less of a crime (in fact, it gets the same sentence as someone who pushs a woman down and sticks it in). The difference is simply that these incidents look very much like the perpetrators organized beforehand and used sexual and physical intimidation to pickpocket and steal, given the high amounts of theft and assault reported, which is very different from 'mass rape' in terms of how policy makers should respond to this incident. To act like this was some sexual driven mania seems out of touch with reality. It look like organized robbing. We're simply going to need more police in the future, and not a discussion about whether every immigrant is a dangerous sex offender. Except that the cologne police is clearly stating that it was primarily sexual assault, and not pick pocketing. Which should be clear, considering that the north africans that took the blame are the pick-pocketers, not the syrians. And those north africans were (again, quote) "the small minority" on NYE. So one would need to ask who exactly here is out of touch with reality. Happy birthday btw. Nothing will happen during "Karneval" : police will be everywhere.
First of all, german police is understaffed, there's not enough officers to "be everywhere", and second of all, do you think there wasn't any police patrolling on NYE? Like any mass-collection of people, there was plenty police (and contradictory to what the media says, they did their job as good as they could - they were thrown under the bus by the chief of police etc). I didn't know that. In France, since the increase of racial tensions (and the event at Charlie) we have policemen everywhere, the army in each station and before most private schools (like jewish schools). I believe the police will have a clear mandate from its hierarchy to react, even violently, to any kind of assault or tension during Karneval.
you can't really compare the two scenarios though. in france there is a state of emergency until feb. 26th. the only situation even more critical would be like if there was an actual war going on.
I agree that for karnival there will be an overabundance of police. only sad thing is that - once again - awful stuff had to happen that people prepare(d) accordingly...
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no the police didnt do everything they could (note: the police is different than the police officer on site). they didnt send reinforcements when things got out of hand even though the police in bielefeld asked multiple times if they should send them. there are also always reserves, i.e. police officers not on duty that can be mobilized and armed with full riot gear in a crisis to keep a wild mob in check.
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We shall see what happens Karneval. I certainly hope that you guys are right, considering that my sister and mother will be attending in cologne.
And i'm actually, genuinely worried about especially my sister (call it "Big Brother syndrome").
no the police didnt do everything they could (note: the police is different than the police officer on site). they didnt send reinforcements when things got out of hand even though the police in bielefeld asked multiple times if they should send them. there are also always reserves, i.e. police officers not on duty that can be mobilized and armed with full riot gear in a crisis to keep a wild mob in check.
Okay, you're right. My bad.
I just wanted to make clear that the police officers that were at the dome etc did do their jobs as good as they could, and it's down to the media that they're (the officers) are now bad guys because according to them, they didn't do their job.
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Zurich15366 Posts
I think you guys should leave the house more often. It's safe out there.
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EPT
