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On January 10 2016 07:22 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 07:16 Nyxisto wrote:On January 10 2016 07:06 Elizar wrote:
3) People in Germany are used to be able to walk in crowded areas without the fear of getting attacked. That has changed and many people see the great deal of uncontrolled refugees as the cause. So the situation of Germans, especially women has become unsafer.
People can still walk through Cologne even through very crowded areas without being afraid of attacked. I actually saw a lot of people today doing exactly that. What happens on NYE sucked, but Germany hasn't suddenly become significantly more dangerous than it was a week or two or a month or a year ago. I wonder if you could say that with a straight face to the victims of NYE, or perhaps to the family members of the terror attacks in France. When is Germany going to suffer its own terror attacks? What about those who attacked fire fighters in Corsica? It's so easy to say "we're all safe" etc. and I'm all for solidarity and humanity and whatnot. But sometimes it feels like people just outright deny reality. Perhaps people should look to nuance their views.
Please consider that car accidents are still way more dangerous in Germany than a terrorist attack. I´m not saying, that we should not consider terrorist attacks to be no threat, but the numbers tell otherwise.
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Sorry I edited my post since. Basically what I am saying is that you can't disregard these attacks just because they may or may not have been committed by people who carry the "refugee" tag. Just because we're looking to justify the presence of refugees does not mean that we should ignore the consequences of them being here. ESPECIALLY when you aren't the ones who are facing those consequences.
I can't even begin to imagine how I'd be feeling right now if my little sisters had been the victims of something such as what happened in Cologne. You can't really tell people "hey it's no big deal, stop your whining" in these circumstances. So please don't tell others what they should be feeling.
Edit: Accidents are accidents.. that is completely off topic. there is malicious and unsafe intent in terror attacks and sexual assaults. Don't mix things up.
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On January 10 2016 07:31 Incognoto wrote:
Sorry I edited my post since. Basically what I am saying is that you can't disregard these attacks just because they may or may not have been committed by people who carry the "refugee" tag. Just because we're looking to justify the presence of refugees does not mean that we should ignore the consequences of them being here. ESPECIALLY when you aren't the ones who are facing those consequences.
I can't even begin to imagine how I'd be feeling right now if my little sisters had been the victims of something such as what happened in Cologne. You can't really tell people "hey it's no big deal, stop your whining" in these circumstances. So please don't tell others what they should be feeling.
Edit: Accidents are accidents.. that is completely off topic. there is malicious and unsafe intent in terror attacks and sexual assaults. Don't mix things up.
There is a non 0% chance I will be shot when I leave my house, or stay in my house for that matter. Yet I still live my life as if I will not be shot at any moment.
Yes its bad, no we should not ignore it,
Yet the world is no more dangerous now then it was 2 weeks ago.
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On January 10 2016 07:35 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 07:31 Incognoto wrote:
Sorry I edited my post since. Basically what I am saying is that you can't disregard these attacks just because they may or may not have been committed by people who carry the "refugee" tag. Just because we're looking to justify the presence of refugees does not mean that we should ignore the consequences of them being here. ESPECIALLY when you aren't the ones who are facing those consequences.
I can't even begin to imagine how I'd be feeling right now if my little sisters had been the victims of something such as what happened in Cologne. You can't really tell people "hey it's no big deal, stop your whining" in these circumstances. So please don't tell others what they should be feeling.
Edit: Accidents are accidents.. that is completely off topic. there is malicious and unsafe intent in terror attacks and sexual assaults. Don't mix things up. There is a non 0% chance I will be shot when I leave my house, or stay in my house for that matter. Yet I still live my life as if I will not be shot at any moment. Yes its bad, no we should not ignore it, Yet the world is no more dangerous now then it was 2 weeks ago.
Yet didn't criminals who came hidden among refugees take the odds from 1-2% of getting a mass sexual assault to something which is apparently over 50% ? I'm not sure that you're a major in statistics, based on this conclusion.
Again, you're refusing to acknowledge the root cause of the problem in such a way that it's almost disrespectful to the victims. I am not arguing that we kick out refugees but we should not either turn a blind eye to what actually caused the problem. In fact I would not argue that the refugees caused the problem: rather a complete lack of regulation around refugees and security checks are at stake here.
If you truly think that Germany and Cologne are no more dangerous in recent times than they were a few years ago, then I suppose that you will also think that increasing regulation and security measures around refugees is also nonsensical and a complete waste of time and money?
I'd love to hear you tell this to one of the victims. Personally I wouldn't be able to.
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On January 10 2016 07:47 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 07:35 Gorsameth wrote:On January 10 2016 07:31 Incognoto wrote:
Sorry I edited my post since. Basically what I am saying is that you can't disregard these attacks just because they may or may not have been committed by people who carry the "refugee" tag. Just because we're looking to justify the presence of refugees does not mean that we should ignore the consequences of them being here. ESPECIALLY when you aren't the ones who are facing those consequences.
I can't even begin to imagine how I'd be feeling right now if my little sisters had been the victims of something such as what happened in Cologne. You can't really tell people "hey it's no big deal, stop your whining" in these circumstances. So please don't tell others what they should be feeling.
Edit: Accidents are accidents.. that is completely off topic. there is malicious and unsafe intent in terror attacks and sexual assaults. Don't mix things up. There is a non 0% chance I will be shot when I leave my house, or stay in my house for that matter. Yet I still live my life as if I will not be shot at any moment. Yes its bad, no we should not ignore it, Yet the world is no more dangerous now then it was 2 weeks ago. Yet didn't criminals who came hidden among refugees take the odds from 1-2% of getting a mass sexual assault to something which is apparently over 50% ? I'm not sure that you're a major in statistics, based on this conclusion. Again, you're refusing to acknowledge the root cause of the problem in such a way that it's almost disrespectful to the victims. I am not arguing that we kick out refugees but we should not either turn a blind eye to what actually caused the problem. In fact I would not argue that the refugees caused the problem: rather a complete lack of regulation around refugees and security checks are at stake here. If you truly think that Germany and Cologne are no more dangerous in recent times than they were a few years ago, then I suppose that you will also think that increasing regulation and security measures around refugees is also nonsensical and a complete waste of time and money? I'd love to hear you tell this to one of the victims. Personally I wouldn't be able to.
What? Where did you get that? Who said sth. like that?
And no, the chances to get sexually harassed did not go from 1-2% to 50%. What would 50% even mean? That half our women will get raped tomorrow or within this year?
Noone is refusing anything. And kicking out refugees is indeed a very good idea IF it happens to be one of these who participated in these horrible actions of NYE events. But that has to be decided by judges after the police gets every evidence they can. We don´t need an angry mob. Being angry is fine though. I am pissed as well.
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Well I would assume that if something actually happens ONCE, after it having never happened over the course of several decades (afaik?), the odds of it happening must go from almost non-existent to something "relevant". What happened in Cologne was not random, it was the result of the refugee policy. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that (including German protesters). So let's not pretend otherwise.
That's my only point; we digress really. So I will just say more that my thoughts go out to Cologne's victims and I will leave it at that, I think.
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On January 10 2016 08:08 Incognoto wrote:
Well I would assume that if something actually happens ONCE, after it having never happened over the course of several decades (afaik?), the odds of it happening must go from almost non-existent to something "relevant". What happened in Cologne was not random, it was the result of the refugee policy. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see that (including German protesters). So let's not pretend otherwise. [...]
If you had actually read any of my posts you would see that I never said otherwise.
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On January 10 2016 07:35 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 07:31 Incognoto wrote:
Sorry I edited my post since. Basically what I am saying is that you can't disregard these attacks just because they may or may not have been committed by people who carry the "refugee" tag. Just because we're looking to justify the presence of refugees does not mean that we should ignore the consequences of them being here. ESPECIALLY when you aren't the ones who are facing those consequences.
I can't even begin to imagine how I'd be feeling right now if my little sisters had been the victims of something such as what happened in Cologne. You can't really tell people "hey it's no big deal, stop your whining" in these circumstances. So please don't tell others what they should be feeling.
Edit: Accidents are accidents.. that is completely off topic. there is malicious and unsafe intent in terror attacks and sexual assaults. Don't mix things up. There is a non 0% chance I will be shot when I leave my house, or stay in my house for that matter. Yet I still live my life as if I will not be shot at any moment. Yes its bad, no we should not ignore it, Yet the world is no more dangerous now then it was 2 weeks ago.
Yes it is, and it is def worse for Europeans than it was 6 months/1 year ago.
Europeans (like you) need to stop hiding your head in the sand.
A Large portion of the refugees believes in Sharia Law, that woman are closer to cattle than men, do not support (or even understand) the importance of free will, and actively oppose the separation of church and state.
And their behavior will be based on those beliefs.
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On January 10 2016 11:07 GoTuNk! wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 07:35 Gorsameth wrote:On January 10 2016 07:31 Incognoto wrote:
Sorry I edited my post since. Basically what I am saying is that you can't disregard these attacks just because they may or may not have been committed by people who carry the "refugee" tag. Just because we're looking to justify the presence of refugees does not mean that we should ignore the consequences of them being here. ESPECIALLY when you aren't the ones who are facing those consequences.
I can't even begin to imagine how I'd be feeling right now if my little sisters had been the victims of something such as what happened in Cologne. You can't really tell people "hey it's no big deal, stop your whining" in these circumstances. So please don't tell others what they should be feeling.
Edit: Accidents are accidents.. that is completely off topic. there is malicious and unsafe intent in terror attacks and sexual assaults. Don't mix things up. There is a non 0% chance I will be shot when I leave my house, or stay in my house for that matter. Yet I still live my life as if I will not be shot at any moment. Yes its bad, no we should not ignore it, Yet the world is no more dangerous now then it was 2 weeks ago. Yes it is, and it is def worse for Europeans than it was 6 months/1 year ago. Europeans (like you) need to stop hiding your head in the sand. A Large portion of the refugees believes in Sharia Law, that woman are closer to cattle than men, do not support (or even understand) the importance of free will, and actively oppose the separation of church and state. And their behavior will be based on those beliefs.
Nvm
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On January 10 2016 07:19 lord_nibbler wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 01:56 hfglgg wrote:
... this is the worst thing happend to germanys public security since 1945 and the reason is because we brought hundreds of thousands of men into our country for whom sexual assault is not a crime. This statement is so fucking ignorant it should warrant a mandatory integration course for you! Since unification at least 156 people have been killed by Neo-Nazis. Right wing mobs hunt blacks in the streets of Dresden regularly and you seriously think drunk asylum seekers are the worst problem we have in public security? Get all the way out of my face with this bullshit!
so in 25 years 156 people have been killed by neonazis after the german population grew by 20 million. on sylvester approximately 1000 woman if not more were sexually assaulted in one day by refugees of maybe 1 million. keep in mind that the sentence of what those arabs did is the same as rape because in german law the sexual assault in a group is always considered the same as a full blown rape. sorry but that is a different ballpark. since silvester at least 1 person was killed by refugees as well. it was the pregnant sister of the refugees who killed her.
it is not even close and that is no surprise because the culture in arabian countries fucking sucks if we hold them to the same standards we hold our own people.
and nyxistio you are a fucking joke. almost all clubs refuse to let refugees in because the female population is constantly heavily harassed by them, most clubs had to triple their security since there are a high amount of refugees here. get it in your head that people behave in a certain way and in some culture this means to do things we will never tolerated in our enlightened society.
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Actually crime rates, both violent and non-violent in the Arabic and Muslim World in general are way lower than in the Western World, countries currently being at war aside obvoiusly. Patriarchic structures and institutionalized discrimination against women are obviously way worse, but if you think assaulting women on the streets of Dakar or Dubai is going to get you a cheering crowd I would advise you to avoid those countries while travelling.
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LOL
yes because their law systems suck as all hell.
edit: i mean, i dont even know what the fuck you are thinking here. there were multiple incidents of a complete new phenomenon in germany that is very well known in the arabian world and even has a name there "taharrush gamea" and you are telling me that even though multiple cities had the worst night of sexual crimes of all times that nothing has changed.
can you please stop being racist for once?
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On January 10 2016 03:08 Furikawari wrote:Show nested quote +
BUT there is no way that I will blame over 1 000 000 people for the faults of less than 1%. If I would do that that I must also assume that every Italian is a xenophobe and every German like to burn refugee housings and is a Nazi.
I´m a teacher and many of my students have a migrational background (actually roughly half of my best students have a migrational background and I like and respect them very much). I can tell that these people are in principal no different from my other students. Colleagues of mine are also from other countries, so what? They make a fine job like the rest.
So no, I´m not a xenophobe, but I also will not hyperventilate and prevent myself from trying to look at the situation from a most possible reasonable position. Panic and hate are bad advisors.
This. And I'm against refugees, but not for the usual reasons: I strongly believe we dont have the capacity right now to offer them what they want and to assimilate them. Because economy and, sadly, racism/xenophobia as shown by a lot here.
God, in every thread, here or on french forums, we have people like you seeing racists everywhere. Except racism gets you banned on TL, so either mods are blind or you have a very personal definition of racism.
Tip : noticing is not racism. Noticing that immigrants raped women all over europe is not racism. I know left wings tries to pass the idea that noticing is racism, but it is not. That's why France makes it illegal to have ethnic statistics, it would create an epidemic of crimes of noticing.
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On January 10 2016 12:13 hfglgg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 07:19 lord_nibbler wrote:On January 10 2016 01:56 hfglgg wrote:
... this is the worst thing happend to germanys public security since 1945 and the reason is because we brought hundreds of thousands of men into our country for whom sexual assault is not a crime. This statement is so fucking ignorant it should warrant a mandatory integration course for you! Since unification at least 156 people have been killed by Neo-Nazis. Right wing mobs hunt blacks in the streets of Dresden regularly and you seriously think drunk asylum seekers are the worst problem we have in public security? Get all the way out of my face with this bullshit! so in 25 years 156 people have been killed by neonazis after the german population grew by 20 million. on sylvester approximately 1000 woman if not more were sexually assaulted in one day by refugees of maybe 1 million. keep in mind that the sentence of what those arabs did is the same as rape because in german law the sexual assault in a group is always considered the same as a full blown rape. sorry but that is a different ballpark. since silvester at least 1 person was killed by refugees as well. it was the pregnant sister of the refugees who killed her. it is not even close and that is no surprise because the culture in arabian countries fucking sucks if we hold them to the same standards we hold our own people. and nyxistio you are a fucking joke. almost all clubs refuse to let refugees in because the female population is constantly heavily harassed by them, most clubs had to triple their security since there are a high amount of refugees here. get it in your head that people behave in a certain way and in some culture this means to do things we will never tolerated in our enlightened society.
I'd like to know where you get that "1000" number from. When i looked into the cologne stuff, there were ~15 incidents there.
And as far as i know, a lot of clubs in general tend to have a tendency to not let people in who aren't white, no matter where they are from and with no rational explanation. I remember reading a story in a newspaper about a man who simply couldn't get into any clubs at all. He was a scientist who was working at the local university as a guest professor, and he wanted to go to a club with a few of his coworkers. They were unable to find a club that would let him enter.
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On January 10 2016 12:38 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 12:13 hfglgg wrote:On January 10 2016 07:19 lord_nibbler wrote:On January 10 2016 01:56 hfglgg wrote:
... this is the worst thing happend to germanys public security since 1945 and the reason is because we brought hundreds of thousands of men into our country for whom sexual assault is not a crime. This statement is so fucking ignorant it should warrant a mandatory integration course for you! Since unification at least 156 people have been killed by Neo-Nazis. Right wing mobs hunt blacks in the streets of Dresden regularly and you seriously think drunk asylum seekers are the worst problem we have in public security? Get all the way out of my face with this bullshit! so in 25 years 156 people have been killed by neonazis after the german population grew by 20 million. on sylvester approximately 1000 woman if not more were sexually assaulted in one day by refugees of maybe 1 million. keep in mind that the sentence of what those arabs did is the same as rape because in german law the sexual assault in a group is always considered the same as a full blown rape. sorry but that is a different ballpark. since silvester at least 1 person was killed by refugees as well. it was the pregnant sister of the refugees who killed her. it is not even close and that is no surprise because the culture in arabian countries fucking sucks if we hold them to the same standards we hold our own people. and nyxistio you are a fucking joke. almost all clubs refuse to let refugees in because the female population is constantly heavily harassed by them, most clubs had to triple their security since there are a high amount of refugees here. get it in your head that people behave in a certain way and in some culture this means to do things we will never tolerated in our enlightened society. I'd like to know where you get that "1000" number from. When i looked into the cologne stuff, there were ~15 incidents there. And as far as i know, a lot of clubs in general tend to have a tendency to not let people in who aren't white, no matter where they are from and with no rational explanation. I remember reading a story in a newspaper about a man who simply couldn't get into any clubs at all. He was a scientist who was working at the local university as a guest professor, and he wanted to go to a club with a few of his coworkers. They were unable to find a club that would let him enter.
ATERFEDSA. have you not reading the news lately?
there are 400 charges in cologne alone, way above 100 in hamburg, 2 in frankfurt, 15 in stuttgart and a couple in bielefeld. and those are only the one who reported it. reports from policemen doing duty in cologne indicating that there were so many incidents that they couldnt even process them all.
15 my ass. can you please read the news?
edit: actually saying there were 15 incidents when every german newspaper reported that there were 170 on friday an 400 on saturday should be bannable. thats just pure misinformation.
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On January 10 2016 12:27 Nyxisto wrote:
Actually crime rates, both violent and non-violent in the Arabic and Muslim World in general are way lower than in the Western World, countries currently being at war aside obvoiusly. Patriarchic structures and institutionalized discrimination against women are obviously way worse, but if you think assaulting women on the streets of Dakar or Dubai is going to get you a cheering crowd I would advise you to avoid those countries while travelling.
Sex crimes are inexistant there simply because they're not punished. It goes like this
"I was raped !"
"Were you a virgin ?"
"No"
"Case dismissed"
Seriously, foreign women reporters covering the "arab springs" have been raped, one had dozens of men all over her raping her with their fingers while taking selfies. Just google "reporter raped in", google will autocomplete with basically all the list of arab countries for you to pick one...
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On January 10 2016 12:38 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 12:13 hfglgg wrote:On January 10 2016 07:19 lord_nibbler wrote:On January 10 2016 01:56 hfglgg wrote:
... this is the worst thing happend to germanys public security since 1945 and the reason is because we brought hundreds of thousands of men into our country for whom sexual assault is not a crime. This statement is so fucking ignorant it should warrant a mandatory integration course for you! Since unification at least 156 people have been killed by Neo-Nazis. Right wing mobs hunt blacks in the streets of Dresden regularly and you seriously think drunk asylum seekers are the worst problem we have in public security? Get all the way out of my face with this bullshit! so in 25 years 156 people have been killed by neonazis after the german population grew by 20 million. on sylvester approximately 1000 woman if not more were sexually assaulted in one day by refugees of maybe 1 million. keep in mind that the sentence of what those arabs did is the same as rape because in german law the sexual assault in a group is always considered the same as a full blown rape. sorry but that is a different ballpark. since silvester at least 1 person was killed by refugees as well. it was the pregnant sister of the refugees who killed her. it is not even close and that is no surprise because the culture in arabian countries fucking sucks if we hold them to the same standards we hold our own people. and nyxistio you are a fucking joke. almost all clubs refuse to let refugees in because the female population is constantly heavily harassed by them, most clubs had to triple their security since there are a high amount of refugees here. get it in your head that people behave in a certain way and in some culture this means to do things we will never tolerated in our enlightened society. I'd like to know where you get that "1000" number from. When i looked into the cologne stuff, there were ~15 incidents there. And as far as i know, a lot of clubs in general tend to have a tendency to not let people in who aren't white, no matter where they are from and with no rational explanation. I remember reading a story in a newspaper about a man who simply couldn't get into any clubs at all. He was a scientist who was working at the local university as a guest professor, and he wanted to go to a club with a few of his coworkers. They were unable to find a club that would let him enter.
Cologne numbers incidents has been doubled today, around 350 (from 100, then 170, every day we learn more), and now we know they were more men, around 2000 from 1000 reported at first. 15 incidents was never reported anywhere so I don't know where you saw that except perhaps on merkel.com :D
And that just's Cologne, it took 4 days for such an enormous scandal to be published because of social media pressure and victims wondering how with so many people no media was talking about it. And once Cologne story got out, we learned that basically it happened everywhere migrants are too. It's hard enough when you have media with political agendas that try to cover that up, but I can't believe how a citizen would want to minimize such heinous crimes.
The club thing was attacked by around 500 arabs/migrants.
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then maybe dont post here if you are too lazy to keep track of it.
edit: its a news from monday. holy shit, monday.
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On January 10 2016 06:10 Incognoto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2016 03:49 kwizach wrote:On January 10 2016 03:26 Incognoto wrote:On January 10 2016 02:34 kwizach wrote:On January 10 2016 01:49 Incognoto wrote:
Funnily enough, I only heard of this today when browsing TL.net randomly. The French media has not even MENTIONED this tragedy at all (I listen to the radio daily). I didn't know we lived in a fascist country where the media was controlled. To have a mass rape completely ignored in such a manner is absolutely astonishing Yes, there has been no mention of this in the French media at all. It's totally not you who's been living under a rock. + Show Spoiler + I meant radio. you have to admit it's pretty astonishing that i know that françois hollande went to commemorate some plaques in front of charlie hebdo and the super market, but i didn't hear about this. obviously, some french coverage will take place on these events. but it's not exactly viral. i didn't hear about it on the radio, nor did i hear about this from people i know. seems quite hush hush. i don't go out of my way to look into news and but i'd consider this big enough that i'd hear about it. First of all, it doesn't seem "quite hush hush" at all, since it has been all over the news -- including TV, newspapers, internet and radio. Here are two examples (you'll easily find more on google): http://www.rtl.fr/actu/societe-faits-divers/le-journal-rtl-du-06-janv-2016-6-7781199867 & http://www.franceinter.fr/player/reecouter?play=1218027. I don't know how you managed to avoid the news over the last few days, but you can hardly blame the media when the event has been extensively covered. as I said, i don't particularly follow the news on some days, because i just focus on uni work, drive, eat, play a game or two and sleep. so obviously i'm sort of living under a rock. however even when you live under a rock, most often you still hear the big news when it comes. the point i'm making is that i would easily consider something as unheard of as mass sexual assault in germany as something "big-enough-that-even-if-you-live-under-a-rock-you-hear-about", but it seems that french media doesn't consider it that big. over the course of the week there are a few bits of news which i heard about (while living under a rock), off the top of my head: about hollande commemorating charlie hebdo victims, i've heard that the people who were suing bfmtv for revealing the position of a hostage hidden in a closet in the jewish supermarket have dropped their charges in exchange for €60k donated to a jewish charity for terror victims, i've heard that valls said that stripping the nationality from people who only have the french nationality was out of the question, due to it being unconstitutional ("apatrie" or something). i've heard all of that, while living under a rock and only tuning to news radios when all the music radios play commercials. how have i managed to hear so many trivial pieces of information, but i haven't heard ONE mention of something which is absolutely unheard of in europe: namely mass sexual assault? it's weird as fuck, that's my point also weird as fuck are people who somehow blame the refugees for this (in this thread), honestly i don't know why we're mixing up the issues between refugees and sex offenders. let's just say this is quite a peculiar moment for me personally, but humor me, because it's dark under this rock
Are we supposed to try explaining why you didn't hear about a particular story which was covered extensively in the media? Stop accusing the French media: they have been covering the story since it came out. In your first post, you wrote "The French media has not even MENTIONED this tragedy at all (I listen to the radio daily)", which is 100% false (for newspapers, TV, internet and the radio), and made a comparison to a "fascist country where the media was controlled". The media is not to blame, you are for not paying attention to the stories they're covering. I don't know how you heard about other stuff, perhaps your friends like to react to French news on facebook, but the media covered the damn Cologne story.
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EPT
