|
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On February 24 2025 04:07 Simberto wrote:
Probably. Overall not an amazing result, not something to be happy about, but kinda serviceable.
It doesn't get us forward the way we would need to go forward, but it also doesn't collapse us into fascism. Basically 4 years of status quo and important problems getting shoved down the road.
At least no FDP or BSW in Bundestag, but 20% AfD is scary and horrible. Status quo tends to mean that in 4 years AfD is just going to be even bigger
|
Crush. Your. Fascists. Europe. They'll never stop trying to claw their way into power.
|
On February 24 2025 04:12 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2025 04:07 Simberto wrote:
Probably. Overall not an amazing result, not something to be happy about, but kinda serviceable.
It doesn't get us forward the way we would need to go forward, but it also doesn't collapse us into fascism. Basically 4 years of status quo and important problems getting shoved down the road.
At least no FDP or BSW in Bundestag, but 20% AfD is scary and horrible. Status quo tends to mean that in 4 years AfD is just going to be even bigger
My only hope is that in 4 years we will see the results of what happens in the US right now, and our people will be smart enough to recognize that we really don't want that shit here.
|
On February 24 2025 04:30 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2025 04:12 Gorsameth wrote:On February 24 2025 04:07 Simberto wrote:
Probably. Overall not an amazing result, not something to be happy about, but kinda serviceable.
It doesn't get us forward the way we would need to go forward, but it also doesn't collapse us into fascism. Basically 4 years of status quo and important problems getting shoved down the road.
At least no FDP or BSW in Bundestag, but 20% AfD is scary and horrible. Status quo tends to mean that in 4 years AfD is just going to be even bigger My only hope is that in 4 years we will see the results of what happens in the US right now, and our people will be smart enough to recognize that we really don't want that shit here.
People should already be looking at Bolsonaro tbh.
|
It's not encouraging to see AfD take a strong share of younger voters.
|
On February 24 2025 04:10 TropicalHaze wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2025 03:52 maybenexttime wrote:Congratulations to our German friends. It looks like America's recent meddling didn't make a difference in these elections. :-) ![[image loading]](https://www.reuters.com/graphics/GERMANY-ELECTION/zdpxaydgavx/chart.png) Didn't make a difference? Look at the AfD bar
They've been polling at around 20% for a while.
|
Did BSW take more from the left or from Afd? I guess it's hard to say probably
|
Trump is celebrating CDU's victory:
![[image loading]](https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:4aqzua5vsewimmusg66fyajl/bafkreih5keblht26hx4qoybjep6nem425wlqyzl2ptcrmq62qunmetbx74@jpeg)
Meanwhile Germany's next chancellor:
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/1iwkkyt/europe_must_unite_the_us_is_no_longer_a_reliable/
+ Show Spoiler [translation] +The absolute priority from my point of view is that Europeans come to an understanding and stand united. At the moment, a large part of European politics is taking place without Germany. Of course, this is also related to the election campaign and the current transitional phase. However, I am in close contact with many prime ministers as well as heads of state and government of the European Union. For me, the absolute priority will be to strengthen Europe as quickly as possible so that we can gradually achieve true independence from the United States.
I would not have believed that I would ever have to say something like this on a television program, but after Donald Trump's statements last week, it is clear that the Americans—at least this part of the American government—are largely indifferent to Europe's fate. I am very curious to see how we approach the NATO summit at the end of June—whether we will still be able to speak of NATO in its current form or whether we will have to establish an independent European defense capability much sooner.
This is my absolute priority, and I have no illusions about what is happening in America. Just look at the recent days and how Elon Musk has intervened in the German election campaign—an unprecedented event. The interventions from Washington have been no less dramatic, drastic, and ultimately outrageous than those we have seen from Moscow. We are under massive pressure from both sides, which is why my absolute priority now is to establish unity in Europe.
xD
|
"Is this fake or real" game would be really hard if it was about the Donald's tweets.
|
Northern Ireland26223 Posts
Is he mistaking them for the AFD or what? Didn’t he fucking loathe Merkel last time? Aren’t they not just a milquetoast, relative centrist European conservative party and thus probably still left of the US’s Democratic Party, and have basically nothing in common with the clown fiesta that is the current GOP?
Is he just playing to a gallery that doesn’t know this shit, or is he that fucking thick?
Why is the President of the US tweeting in all caps? Look, not every statesman can be Cicero, but really?
God what a world, fucking hell.
|
Northern Ireland26223 Posts
On February 24 2025 07:51 Sent. wrote:
"Is this fake or real" game would be really hard if it was about the Donald's tweets.
Would it even be possible to outperform a flipped coin? I really feel for the political satirists of our age, fuck me that’s gotta be a hard gig these days
|
On February 24 2025 07:58 WombaT wrote:
Is he mistaking them for the AFD or what? Didn’t he fucking loathe Merkel last time? Aren’t they not just a milquetoast, relative centrist European conservative party and thus probably still left of the US’s Democratic Party, and have basically nothing in common with the clown fiesta that is the current GOP?
Is he just playing to a gallery that doesn’t know this shit, or is he that fucking thick?
Why is the President of the US tweeting in all caps? Look, not every statesman can be Cicero, but really?
God what a world, fucking hell.
Most likely, lol.
|
On February 24 2025 08:00 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2025 07:58 WombaT wrote:
Is he mistaking them for the AFD or what? Didn’t he fucking loathe Merkel last time? Aren’t they not just a milquetoast, relative centrist European conservative party and thus probably still left of the US’s Democratic Party, and have basically nothing in common with the clown fiesta that is the current GOP?
Is he just playing to a gallery that doesn’t know this shit, or is he that fucking thick?
Why is the President of the US tweeting in all caps? Look, not every statesman can be Cicero, but really?
God what a world, fucking hell. Most likely, lol.
Eh, the news said the conservatives won and his two braincells short-circuited "covfefe! We won!"
|
Zurich15357 Posts
On February 24 2025 04:39 PhoenixVoid wrote:
It's not encouraging to see AfD take a strong share of younger voters.
And for the Left and the BSW. Young Germany voted hard for authoritarianism. Germany just dodged a bullet but I am dreading 2029.
|
On February 24 2025 15:42 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2025 04:39 PhoenixVoid wrote:
It's not encouraging to see AfD take a strong share of younger voters. And for the Left and the BSW. Young Germany voted hard for authoritarianism. Germany just dodged a bullet but I am dreading 2029.
The left isn't necessarily authoritarian. Yes, they have some roots in the eastern German socialist party, but they are pretty far removed from that now.
Young Germany seems to mostly vote for "anything but the status quo", which makes sense as young Germany gets fucked hard by the status quo. Our social security system is based on the current generation paying for the retirement of the previous generation. But this generation is smaller than the previous one, the previous one lives longer than the ones before it, and medicine for that generation is getting more and more expensive.
So the younger generation has to pay more and more of their salary to cover the older generations costs. This was very predictable 40 years ago, and could have easily been approached then by having some sort of actual retirement savings for that generation. Instead, the can was shoved down the road for 40 years, and it is now approaching untenable levels. But doing anything about it is massively unpopular because about 50% of the voting population is at or near retirement age.
So the young population has to pay a lot for a system that they have zero trust that they will ever profit from. The common view is that the system will collapse before my generation retires, so we expect to pay a lot for the current retirees now and also have to privately save for our own retirement.
Add to that that housing costs are increasing at a pace way above incomes, especially for the kinds of people that need new apartments (young people), and buying a house anywhere close to a big city is basically impossible off of a normal income.
So young people are very frustrated by these problems, and none of the major parties seem to really care about them or seem to have any sustainable plan for any of these problems besides "well, young people can pay a bit more i guess, and retire later."
|
Zurich15357 Posts
All of that is true but it doesn't explain the turn of young voters. If they would really care about their future, they would have to vote Greens or FDP - the only 2 parties with relief for the next generation with regards to pension in their program. Yet those two parties especially saw a massive drain especially among young and first time voters.
And Left, BSW, and AfD combined have the worst possible pension program for young people. It's not just status quo, but more wealth transfer from young to old.
I can get behind a vague "stick it up to the establishment" explanation. But in terms of policy, especially on pensions, those young and first timers have voted directly against their own interest.
|
Most of the authoritarian-friendly communism romantics left Die Linke and found BSW. So I could vote for the left, finally with a good conscience again.
The SPD needs to realise that their voter base is dying. Only old people keep them above 5%. They lost all momentum with anyone else. Scholz needs to do a Lindner: Resign and leave politics. He'll be alright, his banker friends will take care of him.
|
On February 24 2025 18:19 zatic wrote:
All of that is true but it doesn't explain the turn of young voters. If they would really care about their future, they would have to vote Greens or FDP - the only 2 parties with relief for the next generation with regards to pension in their program. Yet those two parties especially saw a massive drain especially among young and first time voters.
And Left, BSW, and AfD combined have the worst possible pension program for young people. It's not just status quo, but more wealth transfer from young to old.
I can get behind a vague "stick it up to the establishment" explanation. But in terms of policy, especially on pensions, those young and first timers have voted directly against their own interest.
Because the youth are the social media generation. They are up to their eyeballs in the disinformation spread via tiktok, instagram, ect.
|
On February 24 2025 18:19 zatic wrote:
All of that is true but it doesn't explain the turn of young voters. If they would really care about their future, they would have to vote Greens or FDP - the only 2 parties with relief for the next generation with regards to pension in their program. Yet those two parties especially saw a massive drain especially among young and first time voters.
And Left, BSW, and AfD combined have the worst possible pension program for young people. It's not just status quo, but more wealth transfer from young to old.
I can get behind a vague "stick it up to the establishment" explanation. But in terms of policy, especially on pensions, those young and first timers have voted directly against their own interest.
I don't think anyone who worries about their pension, or economically in general, and followed politics would or should look to the FDP and not think "alright, sounds good... how can they turn this around to fuck me over and mostly just benefit people who are already well off". If I was in any kind of real financial worry for any part of my life, I would automatically assume that the FDP is not for me, because that is how they have pretty consistently behaved in my eye.
I also think that "stick it up to the establishment" is too easy of an explanation, at least the way I understand it. I understand the phrase as more of a protest vote, as in they don't believe that the AfD would be better for them, just that they do not want to give a vote to the established parties who "betrayed" them - "Anyone but them". I fear more that they are worried, unsure about their future, and genuinely believe that the AfD can help them in their struggle. My fear is this is not a protest vote, but an actual decision for who they believe can be trusted to address their concerns.
|
On February 24 2025 18:19 zatic wrote:
All of that is true but it doesn't explain the turn of young voters. If they would really care about their future, they would have to vote Greens or FDP - the only 2 parties with relief for the next generation with regards to pension in their program. Yet those two parties especially saw a massive drain especially among young and first time voters.
And Left, BSW, and AfD combined have the worst possible pension program for young people. It's not just status quo, but more wealth transfer from young to old.
I can get behind a vague "stick it up to the establishment" explanation. But in terms of policy, especially on pensions, those young and first timers have voted directly against their own interest.
When You are young, You dont really think about Your pension. Young people look more at their immediete future or vote idealogically.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
