Malaysian airliner shot down over Eastern Ukraine - Page 52

On July 20 2014 21:23 zeo wrote:
Opinion piece =\= fact.

The fact that he uses the laughable 'leaked recording', which if you post it here in this thread gets you banned as a fact, should give you an idea of the kind of evidance these warmongers have.

On July 20 2014 21:33 one-one-one wrote:


People like you make me sick.

Evidence is mounting. Luckily, shooting down an international airliner, albeit by mistake, is very hard to cover up.
Instead you go and ask for "sources" only to discredit each and every piece of evidence that is handed to you.

Lets turn the tables here. Can you even present a single piece of credible information that suggests that someone else than Russian backed rebel thugs brought down the plane by mistake?

On July 20 2014 21:43 zeo wrote:

I'm sorry, asking for sources makes you sick? If they can't come out with things that cannpt be easily debunked they shouldn't be comming out with them at all.

We don't really know anything. US and Russian intelegance agency's can claim something is there when it really isn't. We both know they both lie, and until they give us direct papers, pictures and evidance stating this and this happened because that. Don't believe them. Wait for evidance, because for now there isn't any.

On July 20 2014 21:43 zeo wrote:

I'm sorry, asking for sources makes you sick? If they can't come out with things that cannpt be easily debunked they shouldn't be comming out with them at all.

We don't really know anything. US and Russian intelegance agency's can claim something is there when it really isn't. We both know they both lie, and until they give us direct papers, pictures and evidance stating this and this happened because that. Don't believe them. Wait for evidance, because for now there isn't any.

DONETSK, Ukraine (AP) — Rebels have recovered the black boxes from downed Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 and will hand them over to the International Civil Aviation Organization, a rebel leader said Sunday.

Alexander Borodai also said the bodies recovered from the crash site in eastern Ukraine would remain in refrigerated train cars at a station in the rebel-held town of Torez until the arrival of an international aviation delegation.

Ukraine and the separatists accuse each other of firing a surface-to-air missile Thursday at Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 as it flew from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur some 33,000 feet (10,000 meters) above the battlefields of eastern Ukraine. Both deny shooting down the plane. All those onboard the flight — 283 passengers and 15 crew — were killed.

It was immediately not clear Sunday if the rebels and the Ukrainian government were working together or at odds with each other on recovering the bodies — and from their comments, many of officials didn't appear to know either.

A Ukrainian emergency spokeswoman said the armed rebels had forced emergency workers to hand over all 196 bodies recovered from the Malaysia Airlines crash site and did not tell them where the bodies were going. Ukrainian government officials, meanwhile, prepared a disaster crisis center in the government-held city of Kharkiv, expecting to receive the bodies, but those hopes appeared delayed or even dashed Sunday.

"The bodies will go nowhere until experts arrive," Borodai said, speaking in the rebel-held city of Donetsk.

On July 20 2014 21:52 ImFromPortugal wrote:


Can you please tell us what you think it happened ? And who do you think downed the plane ?

On July 20 2014 21:33 one-one-one wrote:


People like you make me sick.

Evidence is mounting. Luckily, shooting down an international airliner, albeit by mistake, is very hard to cover up.
Instead you go and ask for "sources" only to discredit each and every piece of evidence that is handed to you.

Lets turn the tables here. Can you even present a single piece of credible information that suggests that someone else than Russian backed rebel thugs brought down the plane by mistake?

Separatist Leader Confirms Audio Tape Authenticity, But Denies He Meant Malaysian Plane
13:04 (GMT)

Igor Bezler, the GRU officer and commander of the separatists in Gorlovka, known as Bes or "Demon," has admitted that the audio tape published by the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) is from a conversation that did take place, but he says that the discussion was not about the Malaysian airliner shot down July 17, Lenta.ru reported 18 July.

The Interpreter has translated an excerpt:

"We really did discuss over the telephone the searches for a plane, but those who think that we shot it down, have to pour the kefir out of their brains.
On the tape, it is clearly audible that the talk was about a plane in Enakievo. The Boeing fell in the area of Snezhnyoe. There are 100 kilometers between them, I don't have weapons capable of downing planes at such a distance."

The flight path of the Malaysian plane was over Enikievo and it crashed in Grabovo, which is roughly equidistant from either Torez or Snezhnoye, both towns controlled by separatists where the BUK anti-aircraft system has been spotted.
source

On July 20 2014 22:11 zeo wrote:

Posting what you think happened gets you banned in this thread. I've interacted with you before and I'm sure you are not baiting me. But its better to wait for mod clarification.

On July 20 2014 21:55 radiatoren wrote:

But when both claim the plane was shot down by ground-to-air missiles, that seems fairly certain. Who the blame befalls will never satisfy your standard of proof.

It has been postulated that western intelligence have watched several advanced weapons crossing the border from Russia to Ukraine after the border was siezed. There has been unconfirmed information about a pro-russian envoy missing a missile, leaving for Russia. There has been another of SBUs unconfirmed recordings released that could very well be true. There has been official complaints about the pro-russians denying access to the crash sites for days.

Looking from the outside the indices are starting to stack up in support of a certain conclusion.

On July 20 2014 22:22 zeo wrote:

If you are refering to the video or picture of a BUK system moving somewhere on youtube (which I think you are). There are BUK missile systems with three and two missiles. The Ukrainian army has both (that is to say all three types) so there is no real proof when the video was taken or indeed where. Its not there are Russian flags on the thing.

I could download that video and reupload it with the title 'Russian buk in Luxembourg on its way to Paris' and people would believe it. Its gotten that bad. But throw enough misinformation around and the layman will think 'well it can't all be propaganda'.

The fact remains. There is no evidance.

On July 20 2014 22:09 Crushinator wrote:
Just ignore zeo, there is no point in arguing with him. I don't know why he is even still around, but it would be best not to engage him untill he inevitably goes.

On July 20 2014 22:58 Aveng3r wrote:

you are in laughable denial regarding the ever-growing pile of evidence that rest of the world has gathered.

time to wake up pal.

Ukraine intelligence officials said they knew three days before the downing of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 that rebels in the east of the country possessed sophisticated air-defense systems capable of felling a jetliner at altitudes in excess of where the Boeing 777 was flying. The disclosure deepens the mystery of why Ukrainian aviation officials failed to entirely close off the airspace in the Donetsk region, where the jet was flying when it was shot down, killing all 298 people on board. Three Buk-M1 medium-range antiaircraft systems, also known as the SA-11 Gadfly under the North Atlantic Treaty Organization designation, were known to be in rebel hands as early as July 14, said Vitaly Nayda, the head of the counterintelligence division of Ukraine's security service. Ukraine imposed a partial flight ban in the region on flights below 26,000 feet on July 1, and raised the ceiling of the exclusion area to 32,000 feet on July 14. The Malaysia Airlines plane was flying at 33,000 feet. The altitude restrictions on commercial flights were raised after rebel separatists backed by Moscow on July 14 shot down a Ukrainian military Antonov An-26 transport plane with eight people on board over the skies of the Luhansk region. The aircraft was flying at 21,000 feet.

the cash-strapped Ukrainian government was receiving overflight fees for each commercial flight above its territory and therefore had a financial incentive to keep the airspace open as long as possible.

On July 20 2014 22:39 ShootAnonymous wrote:
Since I've no intention of wading into political waters, here's a less loaded question: does anyone have news on how the AIDS conference that ~100/300 passengers were supposed to attend went?

edit: apologies if it's been mentioned in past pages. 50+ is quite a backlog to go through.