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This whole situation is looking like cold war all over again, if it was ever over.
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The other Malaysian Airlines loss, Flight MH370, which mysteriously disappeared in March, was hijacked with a view to staging a provocation against Russia and now, finally, has been used. The bodies at the crash site are those of MH370 passengers: they're partially decomposed and the European passports found strewn on the ground are suspiciously new.
Oh. my. god. Fuck them for thinking this way.
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On July 19 2014 08:37 Sub40APM wrote:http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-07-18/putin-s-chance-to-escape-a-losing-warShow nested quote +
It is difficult, however, to convincingly lay blame for MH17 at Ukraine's door, because the pro-Russian rebels are the ones who have been shooting down aircraft in the area: They have no warplanes of their own, and anti-aircraft weapons are their only way to counteract the government forces' supremacy in the air. Ukraine's military, by contrast, have nothing to shoot at that has wings.
The Russian propaganda machine is struggling to deal with this simple fact. So far, the following versions have surfaced:
· The Ukrainians launched a missile hoping to shoot down Putin's own plane. "A source in the Russian Federal Air Transport Agency" told the Interfax news agency that the Malaysian jet and Putin's specially modified Il-96 briefly passed the same spot 10,100 meters over Poland yesterday, and the two planes look alike from a distance: both are big and decorated with red, white and blue stripes. "Considering the schizophrenia in Kiev political circles, this version does not appear absurd," pro-Putin TV host Vitaly Tretyakov wrote on Livejournal.
· The residents of Grabovo, a village near the crash site, saw a warplane in the sky "several minutes before the crash." They also saw it "launch several missiles." Then debris started raining down. Other Russian media quote rebel representatives saying with certainty that a Ukrainian fighter plane was responsible.
· The other Malaysian Airlines loss, Flight MH370, which mysteriously disappeared in March, was hijacked with a view to staging a provocation against Russia and now, finally, has been used. The bodies at the crash site are those of MH370 passengers: they're partially decomposed and the European passports found strewn on the ground are suspiciously new.
· A Spanish air traffic controller working in Ukraine said on Twitter that Ukrainians shot down the plane. The Ukrainian authorities then threatened him so he wouldn't disclose the truth. (Twitter closed down the account after ascertaining there was no such air traffic controller in Kiev).
I may have missed a few other colorful myths, but the general plan is clear: to sow doubt in the minds of ordinary Russians. "The more versions, the less clear it is, the less clear it is, the more time there is to work out the final version that will later become canonical," columnist Oleg Kashin wrote on svpressa.ru.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-18/malaysian-air-shooting-russian-news-media-tries-crazy-theoriesShow nested quote +To outsiders, Russian media coverage of the Ukraine crisis may seem far-fetched, conspiracy-laden, and contradictory. But it’s effectively convinced Russians that the Ukrainian rebels need their help to fight brutal repression by Kiev. “Aggressive and deceptive propaganda, worse than anything I witnessed in the Soviet Union,” is how Lev Gudkov, director of the Levada polling group, described it to the BBC last month. Indeed, Levada surveys show that most Russians think their country should be doing more to support the rebels, including direct military intervention in Ukraine.
Propaganda is a scary thing. Western media is also subject to this in tone and detail of some news (very pro Israel news here for example) but Russia has gone full fabrication and lies. And it's not that people there are less smart, propaganda is just an extremely powerful tool nobody is fully immune to it.
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On July 19 2014 08:48 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +The other Malaysian Airlines loss, Flight MH370, which mysteriously disappeared in March, was hijacked with a view to staging a provocation against Russia and now, finally, has been used. The bodies at the crash site are those of MH370 passengers: they're partially decomposed and the European passports found strewn on the ground are suspiciously new. Oh. my. god. Fuck them for thinking this way.
I don't even know how the hell that is supposed to make any sense.
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On July 19 2014 08:48 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +The other Malaysian Airlines loss, Flight MH370, which mysteriously disappeared in March, was hijacked with a view to staging a provocation against Russia and now, finally, has been used. The bodies at the crash site are those of MH370 passengers: they're partially decomposed and the European passports found strewn on the ground are suspiciously new. Oh. my. god. Fuck them for thinking this way.
Yeah that seems crazy. But I think when you live in Russia with its propaganda it might not be that hard to believe. When you'd might think the whole world is against you.
+ Show Spoiler +Disclaimer: I'm not saying there is no propaganda in my counties or any other.
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On July 19 2014 08:37 Sub40APM wrote:http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-07-18/putin-s-chance-to-escape-a-losing-warShow nested quote +
It is difficult, however, to convincingly lay blame for MH17 at Ukraine's door, because the pro-Russian rebels are the ones who have been shooting down aircraft in the area: They have no warplanes of their own, and anti-aircraft weapons are their only way to counteract the government forces' supremacy in the air. Ukraine's military, by contrast, have nothing to shoot at that has wings.
The Russian propaganda machine is struggling to deal with this simple fact. So far, the following versions have surfaced:
· The Ukrainians launched a missile hoping to shoot down Putin's own plane. "A source in the Russian Federal Air Transport Agency" told the Interfax news agency that the Malaysian jet and Putin's specially modified Il-96 briefly passed the same spot 10,100 meters over Poland yesterday, and the two planes look alike from a distance: both are big and decorated with red, white and blue stripes. "Considering the schizophrenia in Kiev political circles, this version does not appear absurd," pro-Putin TV host Vitaly Tretyakov wrote on Livejournal.
· The residents of Grabovo, a village near the crash site, saw a warplane in the sky "several minutes before the crash." They also saw it "launch several missiles." Then debris started raining down. Other Russian media quote rebel representatives saying with certainty that a Ukrainian fighter plane was responsible.
· The other Malaysian Airlines loss, Flight MH370, which mysteriously disappeared in March, was hijacked with a view to staging a provocation against Russia and now, finally, has been used. The bodies at the crash site are those of MH370 passengers: they're partially decomposed and the European passports found strewn on the ground are suspiciously new.
· A Spanish air traffic controller working in Ukraine said on Twitter that Ukrainians shot down the plane. The Ukrainian authorities then threatened him so he wouldn't disclose the truth. (Twitter closed down the account after ascertaining there was no such air traffic controller in Kiev).
I may have missed a few other colorful myths, but the general plan is clear: to sow doubt in the minds of ordinary Russians. "The more versions, the less clear it is, the less clear it is, the more time there is to work out the final version that will later become canonical," columnist Oleg Kashin wrote on svpressa.ru.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-18/malaysian-air-shooting-russian-news-media-tries-crazy-theoriesShow nested quote +To outsiders, Russian media coverage of the Ukraine crisis may seem far-fetched, conspiracy-laden, and contradictory. But it’s effectively convinced Russians that the Ukrainian rebels need their help to fight brutal repression by Kiev. “Aggressive and deceptive propaganda, worse than anything I witnessed in the Soviet Union,” is how Lev Gudkov, director of the Levada polling group, described it to the BBC last month. Indeed, Levada surveys show that most Russians think their country should be doing more to support the rebels, including direct military intervention in Ukraine.
A whole lot of conjecture without all that much substance between these two "news" pieces.
From what I've seen, the general sentiment of Russian news right now is to wait and see without jumping to conclusions. They are also focusing on an ongoing battle in Lugansk right now.
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If anyone was interested in Malaysia Airlines: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-28370863
The company has been losing money for many years and its market value has fallen by more than 40% in the past nine months.
Reports suggest that state investment firm Khazanah Nasional, the major shareholder in the airline, is looking to take the carrier private.
The firm has invested more than $1bn into the airline in recent years and had previously indicated that a major restructuring was on the cards.
Analysts said further investment was needed if the airline was to survive in the short term.
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I'm not surprised considering an aircraft with a solid safety record and relatively new from Boeing ends up in an accident from the same airline company in such a short period. Put the blame on the them to not restrict their routes in Ukraine, even Russian airlines stopped flying in rebel areas.
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The more I think about that phone call, the more I suspect it to be fake. I find it highly unlikely that they just randomly got into the call right after it happened. They would have had to be listening to it before it happened. Considering that this isn't something that they just drive around with, jump out of a car and fire this was planned and had to of been discussed. A US general says for an American to even be a novice using this they'd need 6 months training at 6 days a week. They would have been talking over the plans before hand as well as likely getting some advice and i find it hard to imagine they wouldn't of had those talks intercepted if they really had the phone line intercepted right after.
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On July 19 2014 08:56 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 08:37 Sub40APM wrote:http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-07-18/putin-s-chance-to-escape-a-losing-war
It is difficult, however, to convincingly lay blame for MH17 at Ukraine's door, because the pro-Russian rebels are the ones who have been shooting down aircraft in the area: They have no warplanes of their own, and anti-aircraft weapons are their only way to counteract the government forces' supremacy in the air. Ukraine's military, by contrast, have nothing to shoot at that has wings.
The Russian propaganda machine is struggling to deal with this simple fact. So far, the following versions have surfaced:
· The Ukrainians launched a missile hoping to shoot down Putin's own plane. "A source in the Russian Federal Air Transport Agency" told the Interfax news agency that the Malaysian jet and Putin's specially modified Il-96 briefly passed the same spot 10,100 meters over Poland yesterday, and the two planes look alike from a distance: both are big and decorated with red, white and blue stripes. "Considering the schizophrenia in Kiev political circles, this version does not appear absurd," pro-Putin TV host Vitaly Tretyakov wrote on Livejournal.
· The residents of Grabovo, a village near the crash site, saw a warplane in the sky "several minutes before the crash." They also saw it "launch several missiles." Then debris started raining down. Other Russian media quote rebel representatives saying with certainty that a Ukrainian fighter plane was responsible.
· The other Malaysian Airlines loss, Flight MH370, which mysteriously disappeared in March, was hijacked with a view to staging a provocation against Russia and now, finally, has been used. The bodies at the crash site are those of MH370 passengers: they're partially decomposed and the European passports found strewn on the ground are suspiciously new.
· A Spanish air traffic controller working in Ukraine said on Twitter that Ukrainians shot down the plane. The Ukrainian authorities then threatened him so he wouldn't disclose the truth. (Twitter closed down the account after ascertaining there was no such air traffic controller in Kiev).
I may have missed a few other colorful myths, but the general plan is clear: to sow doubt in the minds of ordinary Russians. "The more versions, the less clear it is, the less clear it is, the more time there is to work out the final version that will later become canonical," columnist Oleg Kashin wrote on svpressa.ru.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-18/malaysian-air-shooting-russian-news-media-tries-crazy-theoriesTo outsiders, Russian media coverage of the Ukraine crisis may seem far-fetched, conspiracy-laden, and contradictory. But it’s effectively convinced Russians that the Ukrainian rebels need their help to fight brutal repression by Kiev. “Aggressive and deceptive propaganda, worse than anything I witnessed in the Soviet Union,” is how Lev Gudkov, director of the Levada polling group, described it to the BBC last month. Indeed, Levada surveys show that most Russians think their country should be doing more to support the rebels, including direct military intervention in Ukraine. A whole lot of conjecture without all that much substance between these two "news" pieces. From what I've seen, the general sentiment of Russian news right now is to wait and see without jumping to conclusions. They are also focusing on an ongoing battle in Lugansk right now.
I cant post it here but just look up the report from Вечерние новости с Анной Павловой. «Первый канал» (18.07.2014) on youtube.
They clearly repeat several claims that the bloomberg and businessweek articles shared with us regarding the causes.
User was warned for this post
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On July 19 2014 09:21 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 08:56 LegalLord wrote:On July 19 2014 08:37 Sub40APM wrote:http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-07-18/putin-s-chance-to-escape-a-losing-war
It is difficult, however, to convincingly lay blame for MH17 at Ukraine's door, because the pro-Russian rebels are the ones who have been shooting down aircraft in the area: They have no warplanes of their own, and anti-aircraft weapons are their only way to counteract the government forces' supremacy in the air. Ukraine's military, by contrast, have nothing to shoot at that has wings.
The Russian propaganda machine is struggling to deal with this simple fact. So far, the following versions have surfaced:
· The Ukrainians launched a missile hoping to shoot down Putin's own plane. "A source in the Russian Federal Air Transport Agency" told the Interfax news agency that the Malaysian jet and Putin's specially modified Il-96 briefly passed the same spot 10,100 meters over Poland yesterday, and the two planes look alike from a distance: both are big and decorated with red, white and blue stripes. "Considering the schizophrenia in Kiev political circles, this version does not appear absurd," pro-Putin TV host Vitaly Tretyakov wrote on Livejournal.
· The residents of Grabovo, a village near the crash site, saw a warplane in the sky "several minutes before the crash." They also saw it "launch several missiles." Then debris started raining down. Other Russian media quote rebel representatives saying with certainty that a Ukrainian fighter plane was responsible.
· The other Malaysian Airlines loss, Flight MH370, which mysteriously disappeared in March, was hijacked with a view to staging a provocation against Russia and now, finally, has been used. The bodies at the crash site are those of MH370 passengers: they're partially decomposed and the European passports found strewn on the ground are suspiciously new.
· A Spanish air traffic controller working in Ukraine said on Twitter that Ukrainians shot down the plane. The Ukrainian authorities then threatened him so he wouldn't disclose the truth. (Twitter closed down the account after ascertaining there was no such air traffic controller in Kiev).
I may have missed a few other colorful myths, but the general plan is clear: to sow doubt in the minds of ordinary Russians. "The more versions, the less clear it is, the less clear it is, the more time there is to work out the final version that will later become canonical," columnist Oleg Kashin wrote on svpressa.ru.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-18/malaysian-air-shooting-russian-news-media-tries-crazy-theoriesTo outsiders, Russian media coverage of the Ukraine crisis may seem far-fetched, conspiracy-laden, and contradictory. But it’s effectively convinced Russians that the Ukrainian rebels need their help to fight brutal repression by Kiev. “Aggressive and deceptive propaganda, worse than anything I witnessed in the Soviet Union,” is how Lev Gudkov, director of the Levada polling group, described it to the BBC last month. Indeed, Levada surveys show that most Russians think their country should be doing more to support the rebels, including direct military intervention in Ukraine. A whole lot of conjecture without all that much substance between these two "news" pieces. From what I've seen, the general sentiment of Russian news right now is to wait and see without jumping to conclusions. They are also focusing on an ongoing battle in Lugansk right now. I cant post it here but just look up the report from Вечерние новости с Анной Павловой. «Первый канал» (18.07.2014) on youtube. They clearly repeat several claims that the bloomberg and businessweek articles shared with us regarding the causes.
Hell, there were even posters in this very thread who were posting those claims as solid evidence.
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On July 19 2014 09:21 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 08:56 LegalLord wrote:On July 19 2014 08:37 Sub40APM wrote:http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-07-18/putin-s-chance-to-escape-a-losing-war
It is difficult, however, to convincingly lay blame for MH17 at Ukraine's door, because the pro-Russian rebels are the ones who have been shooting down aircraft in the area: They have no warplanes of their own, and anti-aircraft weapons are their only way to counteract the government forces' supremacy in the air. Ukraine's military, by contrast, have nothing to shoot at that has wings.
The Russian propaganda machine is struggling to deal with this simple fact. So far, the following versions have surfaced:
· The Ukrainians launched a missile hoping to shoot down Putin's own plane. "A source in the Russian Federal Air Transport Agency" told the Interfax news agency that the Malaysian jet and Putin's specially modified Il-96 briefly passed the same spot 10,100 meters over Poland yesterday, and the two planes look alike from a distance: both are big and decorated with red, white and blue stripes. "Considering the schizophrenia in Kiev political circles, this version does not appear absurd," pro-Putin TV host Vitaly Tretyakov wrote on Livejournal.
· The residents of Grabovo, a village near the crash site, saw a warplane in the sky "several minutes before the crash." They also saw it "launch several missiles." Then debris started raining down. Other Russian media quote rebel representatives saying with certainty that a Ukrainian fighter plane was responsible.
· The other Malaysian Airlines loss, Flight MH370, which mysteriously disappeared in March, was hijacked with a view to staging a provocation against Russia and now, finally, has been used. The bodies at the crash site are those of MH370 passengers: they're partially decomposed and the European passports found strewn on the ground are suspiciously new.
· A Spanish air traffic controller working in Ukraine said on Twitter that Ukrainians shot down the plane. The Ukrainian authorities then threatened him so he wouldn't disclose the truth. (Twitter closed down the account after ascertaining there was no such air traffic controller in Kiev).
I may have missed a few other colorful myths, but the general plan is clear: to sow doubt in the minds of ordinary Russians. "The more versions, the less clear it is, the less clear it is, the more time there is to work out the final version that will later become canonical," columnist Oleg Kashin wrote on svpressa.ru.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-18/malaysian-air-shooting-russian-news-media-tries-crazy-theoriesTo outsiders, Russian media coverage of the Ukraine crisis may seem far-fetched, conspiracy-laden, and contradictory. But it’s effectively convinced Russians that the Ukrainian rebels need their help to fight brutal repression by Kiev. “Aggressive and deceptive propaganda, worse than anything I witnessed in the Soviet Union,” is how Lev Gudkov, director of the Levada polling group, described it to the BBC last month. Indeed, Levada surveys show that most Russians think their country should be doing more to support the rebels, including direct military intervention in Ukraine. A whole lot of conjecture without all that much substance between these two "news" pieces. From what I've seen, the general sentiment of Russian news right now is to wait and see without jumping to conclusions. They are also focusing on an ongoing battle in Lugansk right now. I cant post it here but just look up the report from Вечерние новости с Анной Павловой. «Первый канал» (18.07.2014) on youtube. They clearly repeat several claims that the bloomberg and businessweek articles shared with us regarding the causes.
If you cherry-pick, you can of course find plenty of claims to justify any position you want. It doesn't validate the "Russians are being fed propaganda" line that these two articles claim any more than Fox News would for the US. I have seen more than a fair share of crazy theories (and a LOT of hasty conclusions) from Western media as well, but it doesn't prove anything.
On July 19 2014 09:21 ruffstyle89 wrote:
The more I think about that phone call, the more I suspect it to be fake. I find it highly unlikely that they just randomly got into the call right after it happened. They would have had to be listening to it before it happened. Considering that this isn't something that they just drive around with, jump out of a car and fire this was planned and had to of been discussed. A US general says for an American to even be a novice using this they'd need 6 months training at 6 days a week. They would have been talking over the plans before hand as well as likely getting some advice and i find it hard to imagine they wouldn't of had those talks intercepted if they really had the phone line intercepted right after.
A few people in the video did respond to the posting of that video, but I couldn't find any sources in English about it. Since I can't post it, anyone interested can PM me.
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On July 19 2014 09:47 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2014 09:21 Sub40APM wrote:On July 19 2014 08:56 LegalLord wrote:On July 19 2014 08:37 Sub40APM wrote:http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-07-18/putin-s-chance-to-escape-a-losing-war
It is difficult, however, to convincingly lay blame for MH17 at Ukraine's door, because the pro-Russian rebels are the ones who have been shooting down aircraft in the area: They have no warplanes of their own, and anti-aircraft weapons are their only way to counteract the government forces' supremacy in the air. Ukraine's military, by contrast, have nothing to shoot at that has wings.
The Russian propaganda machine is struggling to deal with this simple fact. So far, the following versions have surfaced:
· The Ukrainians launched a missile hoping to shoot down Putin's own plane. "A source in the Russian Federal Air Transport Agency" told the Interfax news agency that the Malaysian jet and Putin's specially modified Il-96 briefly passed the same spot 10,100 meters over Poland yesterday, and the two planes look alike from a distance: both are big and decorated with red, white and blue stripes. "Considering the schizophrenia in Kiev political circles, this version does not appear absurd," pro-Putin TV host Vitaly Tretyakov wrote on Livejournal.
· The residents of Grabovo, a village near the crash site, saw a warplane in the sky "several minutes before the crash." They also saw it "launch several missiles." Then debris started raining down. Other Russian media quote rebel representatives saying with certainty that a Ukrainian fighter plane was responsible.
· The other Malaysian Airlines loss, Flight MH370, which mysteriously disappeared in March, was hijacked with a view to staging a provocation against Russia and now, finally, has been used. The bodies at the crash site are those of MH370 passengers: they're partially decomposed and the European passports found strewn on the ground are suspiciously new.
· A Spanish air traffic controller working in Ukraine said on Twitter that Ukrainians shot down the plane. The Ukrainian authorities then threatened him so he wouldn't disclose the truth. (Twitter closed down the account after ascertaining there was no such air traffic controller in Kiev).
I may have missed a few other colorful myths, but the general plan is clear: to sow doubt in the minds of ordinary Russians. "The more versions, the less clear it is, the less clear it is, the more time there is to work out the final version that will later become canonical," columnist Oleg Kashin wrote on svpressa.ru.
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2014-07-18/malaysian-air-shooting-russian-news-media-tries-crazy-theoriesTo outsiders, Russian media coverage of the Ukraine crisis may seem far-fetched, conspiracy-laden, and contradictory. But it’s effectively convinced Russians that the Ukrainian rebels need their help to fight brutal repression by Kiev. “Aggressive and deceptive propaganda, worse than anything I witnessed in the Soviet Union,” is how Lev Gudkov, director of the Levada polling group, described it to the BBC last month. Indeed, Levada surveys show that most Russians think their country should be doing more to support the rebels, including direct military intervention in Ukraine. A whole lot of conjecture without all that much substance between these two "news" pieces. From what I've seen, the general sentiment of Russian news right now is to wait and see without jumping to conclusions. They are also focusing on an ongoing battle in Lugansk right now. I cant post it here but just look up the report from Вечерние новости с Анной Павловой. «Первый канал» (18.07.2014) on youtube. They clearly repeat several claims that the bloomberg and businessweek articles shared with us regarding the causes. If you cherry-pick, you can of course find plenty of claims to justify any position you want. It doesn't validate the "Russians are being fed propaganda" line that these two articles claim any more than Fox News would for the US. I have seen more than a fair share of crazy theories (and a LOT of hasty conclusions) from Western media as well, but it doesn't prove anything.
Cherry pick? Like access the main nightly news channel's leading story or direct quotes from one of the leaders of the terrorist movement?
And here is an article running down RT's presentation of the Malaysian crisis over the last 24 hours and the evolution of theories put forward
http://www.interpretermag.com/rt-covers-the-shooting-down-of-mh17/
The day devoted to promoting anti-Ukrainian conspiracy theories came to an end with the presentation of a bizarre episode of the Max Keiser Report promoting a conspiracy theory concerning corporations deliberately killing off the world’s bee population. As morning broke, RT again began broadcasting an incessant stream of reports alleging that Ukraine has an extensive history of war crimes and continuing to promote the failed assassination conspiracy theory.
Another column on the RT website alleges that the plane was ordered shot down by bankers and the “US ruling elites”, and speculates on a “NATO motive for the attack”.
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On July 19 2014 07:00 Fuell wrote:
Sad days. RIP my friend Darryl and your family. I hope everyone here thinks twice before making blunt comments, but Ive really enjoyed some posts thanks all
My condolences... I just can't even imagine, such a senseless tragedy.
I've been thinking about this a lot since it happened, my thoughts are with the family and friends of the deceased.
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This must be quite a huge shock in the Netherlands. Looking at the stats online, the amount of deaths is around the annual homicide rate in their country. So that's a huge number for them.
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I'm surprised by the large increase in Dutch casualties in this accident.
Seeing those passports of children who died is really heart breaking.
I really hope Russia is punished very harshly for this. Russia is like a naughty dog needing to be tamed by the US. I'm actually surprised that the EU isn't responding harshly to this event. Is it because of the Eurozone recession? I know this is a problem between Ukraine and Russia, but there has to be some external intervention.
I really hope Ukraine gets Crimea back. I know why Russians are trying to seize eastern Ukraine (because of the pro-American Ukrainian president) but Russia has gone too far with this one, killing 300 innocent people who were unrelated to this conflict.
Russia must be punished harshly.
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On July 19 2014 12:55 AutoEngineer wrote:
I really hope Russia is punished very harshly for this. Russia is like a naughty dog needing to be tamed by the US. I'm actually surprised that the EU isn't responding harshly to this event. Is it because of the Eurozone recession? I know this is a problem between Ukraine and Russia, but there has to be some external intervention.
I really hope Ukraine gets Crimea back. I know why Russians are trying to seize eastern Ukraine (because of the pro-American Ukrainian president) but Russia has gone too far with this one, killing 300 innocent people who were unrelated to this conflict.
Russia must be punished harshly.
Cold war bravado aside, what do you expect to happen? There are precedents where the actual airforce of certain countries were proven responsible for shooting down commercial airliners and they just had to pay $200k-300k per victim. Even that would be difficult to acomplish in this case since Russia will never take the blame for something that pro-Russian rebels might have done.
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http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/07/how-us-satellites-pinpointed-source-of-missile-that-shot-down-airliner/
President Barack Obama today said without hesitation that the missile that shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was launched from within territory controlled by pro-Russian separatists in Eastern Ukraine. While he didn’t go into the sources the US used to pinpoint the launch, early reports say that US intelligence had identified the infrared signature of a missile launch just before contact with the airliner was lost.
That information likely came from one of a network of satellites operated by the Air Force and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), the US intelligence community’s spy satellite operations agency. Using highly sensitive infrared sensors and other electronic intelligence gathering sensors, these satellites can detect a variety of ground-based missile systems, as well as some aircraft, by their infrared signature. They also carry sensitive electronic intelligence sensors that can detect radar signals associated with anti-aircraft missile systems like the Buk launcher that has been widely pointed to as the culprit in the MH17 downing.
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I heard it was by terrorists who had a recorded phone call with a russian military leader. the missile they used was a very high tech one. Heard it on NPR radio.
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EPT
