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In order to maintain some kind of respectable thread quality and to show some respect for those who lost friends in this tragedy, we're forced to enact a hard line policy for this thread. Any posts holding an opinion on who is responsible or making an accusation that is not held by neutral media will be banned. Policy is in effect from page 27 onwards. Specifically, citing a Ukrainian or Russian source for your claims is going to get you banned. Opinions/facts/accusations arising from neutral media sources (i.e. media whose country of origin is not Ukraine, Russia or one of its puppet states) will be permitted. This policy extends to all forms of media; if a youtube video or picture has not come through a neutral media source then don't post it or you'll be banned. If you wish to discuss this policy please use this website feedback thread. Updated policy on aggressive posting and insults. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On July 18 2014 05:48 ragz_gt wrote: If it's a rocket, everyone will be dead the second it hit, and most likely wouldn't even noticed anything until that time. Not like they hit a bird and cruised for 15 min or anything. No, that's in Hollywood | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
Do you realize what a SAM that can hit that altitude look like? | ||
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Jochan
Poland1730 Posts
On July 18 2014 05:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Who are the most likely candidates and why? Pretty simple 1. Pro-russian separatist. 2. Mistake. | ||
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Thorakh
Netherlands1788 Posts
Good god... | ||
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Crushinator
Netherlands2138 Posts
On July 18 2014 05:51 sharkie wrote: Can someone tell me why Governments still have no data about who was on the plane and who wasn't? -.- I imagine they do have data, but there are protocols about when to make it public. Couple of people I knew vaguely were on this plane, pretty surreal. | ||
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sharkie
Austria18621 Posts
On July 18 2014 05:52 ragz_gt wrote: They do, they just not making it available for public consumption, with good reasons. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-28358968 Saying the amount would surely be no problem? But it seems they don't even know that | ||
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Duka08
3391 Posts
On July 18 2014 05:48 ragz_gt wrote: If it's a rocket, everyone will be dead the second it hit, and most likely wouldn't even noticed anything until that time. This is not how real life works. | ||
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Nisyax
Netherlands756 Posts
On July 18 2014 05:52 Thorakh wrote: Apparently there were at least 154 Dutch people aboard. Good god... Yep, and also 47 unknown as of yet Also - 27 Australian - 23 Malaysian - 11 Indonesian - 6 American - 4 German - 4 Belgian - 3 Phillipines - 1 Canadian No clue if these numbers add up, copied them from the dutch news. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 18 2014 05:51 sharkie wrote: Can someone tell me why Governments still have no data about who was on the plane and who wasn't? -.- They have it, they are just not telling you. The US is prohibited by law from doing so until they contact the families directly. You are the last person they are concerned with telling. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
Tell me, how does a 150 lb HE payload work IRL. | ||
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Parametric
Canada1261 Posts
Edit: Wouldn't the shock wave instantly kill everyone on board? | ||
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Frankon
3054 Posts
On July 18 2014 05:28 zeo wrote: A Spanish air-traffic controller in Kiev saying that the 777 was followed by two fighter jets minutes before it was shot down. On his account he goes on to say that soon after, all foreigners were escorted out and radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down. It looks like a total fuck up by Ukrainian separatists. *IF* its true that about those jets than one of the possibilities is that the Buk operator thought those jets were flying cover for a military cargo plane that was broadcasting faked transponder signal (very far-fetched possibility) so he targeted the cargo plane. Its also possible that the separatists only have a TELAR system (meaning its just a basic launcher with tracking radar), without the command vehicle and separate advance tracking and identification radar and only basic training to use the system - put a target one the radar blip and press launch... Anyway. Im putting my condolences to the families of the passengers that died in this incident. On July 18 2014 05:43 Jochan wrote: Black box contains audio from the crew communication. If it indeed it was a rocket there must be some audio clues like a simple "we've been hit xxx is not working/responding" by the cockpit crew. Black boxes dont work that way. The crew communication recording is a additional system. | ||
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Grettin
42383 Posts
On July 18 2014 05:54 Nisyax wrote: Yep, and also 47 unknown as of yet Also - 27 Australian - 23 Malaysian - 11 Indonesian - 6 American - 4 German - 4 Belgian - 3 Phillipines - 1 Canadian No clue if these numbers add up, copied them from the dutch news. Earlier reports said way more American on-board, but that was hour or two ago. So sad.  | ||
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DeltaSigmaL
United States205 Posts
for reference http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 . The missile "detonated 50 metres (160 ft) behind the aircraft". In this case ya, cockpit crew were talking/trying to control aircraft after explosion. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On July 18 2014 05:52 ragz_gt wrote: They do, they just not making it available for public consumption, with good reasons. Do you realize what a SAM that can hit that altitude look like? It's a big SAM, but that's a big plane. A hit is going to bring it down, but even then, It's a safe bet that some people were still alive(not concious, but alive) right up until they hit the ground at 200mph. If it hit near the tail of the plane for example, the pilots would most definitely have been alive. They might not have had control of the plane, but they definitely would be alive. A SAM's purpose isn't to disintegrate an aircraft, it's to damage it to the point where it can't fly. Anything more than that is excess weight that negatively affects missile range and maneuverability. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 18 2014 05:59 Parametric wrote: Couple people saying conflicting things on whether or not a SAM would kill everyone instantly or not, either side have a source on that stuff? I think it is safe to assume that some peopled died instantly and other may not have. The moment they died doesn't really matter unless you want to debate how scared they were, which is morbid as fuck. Its sucked. How much it sucked isn't really that important. | ||
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Parametric
Canada1261 Posts
On July 18 2014 06:01 Plansix wrote: I think it is safe to assume that some peopled died instantly and other may not have. The moment they died doesn't really matter unless you want to debate how scared they were, which is morbid as fuck. Its sucked. How much it sucked isn't really that important. It's less that, and more whether or not there might be any data on the black box that could help the investigation, On that same line of thought, can a black box even survive that? | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On July 18 2014 05:59 Parametric wrote: Couple people saying conflicting things on whether or not a SAM would kill everyone instantly or not, either side have a source on that stuff? Edit: Wouldn't the shock wave instantly kill everyone on board? The shock wave probably not. The fact that the airplane will tends to disintegrate if enough damage was done yes. But it all depends where the missile hit, if it hit at all (it could have exploded some meters away and still done enough damage to bring the plane down). The size of the crash site (how far the different piece are compared to each other) should be a good estimation to tell if the plane disintegrated in mid air or not. | ||
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RCMDVA
United States708 Posts
On July 18 2014 05:59 Parametric wrote: Couple people saying conflicting things on whether or not a SAM would kill everyone instantly or not, either side have a source on that stuff? Edit: Wouldn't the shock wave instantly kill everyone on board? Taking your first breath of -50 degree below zero air would do it. Imagine if you instantly teleported to the top of Mt Everest. Naked. Moving at 600mph. | ||
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