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On July 18 2014 06:14 Roggay wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2014 06:11 radiatoren wrote:On July 18 2014 06:01 Nyxisto wrote:
It doesn't really matter at this point anyway. It has already been established that the plane was hit by a ground to air missile. There's no more data to gain really from the plane itself. They may be able to pinpoint the location of the SAM. They may be able to extract enough evidence from the wreckage and recorders to determine much more specifically what SAM did it. They may be able to determine exact timings and use satellite photos to extract more info on the SAMs movement over time, both before and after the shot. It is not going to be as much of a smoking gun as you could have hoped for in terms of assigning blame, but it will not be completely useless either. Whats much more important than the blackboxes is the remain of the missile. Fragments of it are bound to be melted inside the fuselage. Lets just hope they are not tempered with.
Yep that would make it much easier. In this context of a war zone, however, it is probably more important to pinpoint the perpetrating SAM and follow its movement on footage from satellites. The propaganda war will be immense and no matter what the black box data and site inspections will be called out as tampered with by at least one side. The most reliable evidence will be satellite photos which you will find plenty of in that area given the current situation. Unfortunately they are unlikely to leak publically, but it will be very strong evidence in the future when studying its reaction to the sides in the conflicts movements and tracing it back to where it came from and when.
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On July 18 2014 06:22 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
At least 154 Dutch people died on the plane. So horrible...can't believe this.
It's horrible, but I don't think it matters where the people on the plane came from (I'm Dutch).
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Who actually thinks the Black Boxes will be reviewed by an assembled panel? It's in the hands of the Separatists and will be given to a country that has been giving them military hardware capable of such an act.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On July 18 2014 06:19 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2014 06:05 ahswtini wrote:On July 18 2014 06:01 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2014 05:59 Parametric wrote:
Couple people saying conflicting things on whether or not a SAM would kill everyone instantly or not, either side have a source on that stuff? I think it is safe to assume that some peopled died instantly and other may not have. The moment they died doesn't really matter unless you want to debate how scared they were, which is morbid as fuck. Its sucked. How much it sucked isn't really that important. Actually, passenger pain and suffering is a very important factor to consider when determining compensation paid out. Not really. In the American and British legal traditions, you can't collect pain and suffering damages for dead people. Once they're dead, that's it. However, the heirs/survivors can make a claim for their pain and suffering as a result of losing the dead person.
Incorrect.
This happened in a previous airline shootdown
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007#Passenger_pain_and_suffering
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On July 18 2014 06:26 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Who actually thinks the Black Boxes will be reviewed by an assembled panel? It's in the hands of the Separatists and will be given to a country that has been giving them military hardware capable of such an act.
Exactly.
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Good god, those people were still alive..
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On July 18 2014 06:17 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Radar and Satellite images could easily detect that I imagine.
Yep NATO has tons of radars and satellites in Eastern Ukraine at the moment and if they keep silent - intelligent people know what happened and they know anyway. All air companies starting to withdraw from using Ukrainian air space.
Can't expect anything less from a president who gave an order to start a civil war...
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On July 18 2014 06:25 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2014 06:22 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
At least 154 Dutch people died on the plane. So horrible...can't believe this. It's horrible, but I don't think it matters where the people on the plane came from (I'm Dutch).
Morally perhaps yes. Personally I feel much closer to this due to the nationalities. I know people who flew to malaysia from schiphol a few days ago. It just makes it much weirder.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
Well, doesn't look like EVERYONE DIED INSTANTLY, which could only really happen if the plane exploded immediately upon missile impact.
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That is footage of a different crash that they used as reference today. They had that same vid on CNN earlier.
You can easily also tell that its different because it was an overcast and dreary day today in that part of ukraine, and in that vid the sky is perfectly blue, no clouds.
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Why are you talking about passenger pain and suffering? You aren't going to get compensation out of the Ukrainian Seperatists even if they admitted to it. And why do you care so much about compensation. It's none of your business. It's a matter only to the families concerned.
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Man... That's horrible. I mean, it was bad to begin with, but if I had to choose a way to go, I would prefer to be vaporized instantly. Thinking about how those people must have felt is actually making me tear up. And I'm a real apathetic asshole normally.
Edit: that footage is from a different crash? That makes me feel slightly better if true. God damn.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On July 18 2014 06:31 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Why are you talking about passenger pain and suffering? You aren't going to get compensation out of the Ukrainian Seperatists even if they admitted to it. And why do you care so much about compensation. It's none of your business. It's a matter only to the families concerned.
Because I was responding to this post and saying it was wrong
On July 18 2014 06:01 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2014 05:59 Parametric wrote:
Couple people saying conflicting things on whether or not a SAM would kill everyone instantly or not, either side have a source on that stuff? I think it is safe to assume that some peopled died instantly and other may not have. The moment they died doesn't really matter unless you want to debate how scared they were, which is morbid as fuck. Its sucked. How much it sucked isn't really that important.
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On July 18 2014 06:33 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2014 06:31 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Why are you talking about passenger pain and suffering? You aren't going to get compensation out of the Ukrainian Seperatists even if they admitted to it. And why do you care so much about compensation. It's none of your business. It's a matter only to the families concerned. Because I was responding to this post and saying it was wrong Show nested quote +On July 18 2014 06:01 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2014 05:59 Parametric wrote:
Couple people saying conflicting things on whether or not a SAM would kill everyone instantly or not, either side have a source on that stuff? I think it is safe to assume that some peopled died instantly and other may not have. The moment they died doesn't really matter unless you want to debate how scared they were, which is morbid as fuck. Its sucked. How much it sucked isn't really that important.
And he's right. It isn't important. It's none of your business.
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Fuck 
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On July 18 2014 06:31 Enzymatic wrote:That is footage of a different crash that they used as reference today. They had that same vid on CNN earlier. You can easily also tell that its different because it was an overcast and dreary day today in that part of ukraine, and in that vid the sky is perfectly blue, no clouds.
ok thanks, edited. hopefully the MH17 plane passengers passed away quickly. the bodies looked quite intact though from what could be seen in some of the photos.
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On July 18 2014 06:26 ahswtini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2014 06:19 xDaunt wrote:On July 18 2014 06:05 ahswtini wrote:On July 18 2014 06:01 Plansix wrote:On July 18 2014 05:59 Parametric wrote:
Couple people saying conflicting things on whether or not a SAM would kill everyone instantly or not, either side have a source on that stuff? I think it is safe to assume that some peopled died instantly and other may not have. The moment they died doesn't really matter unless you want to debate how scared they were, which is morbid as fuck. Its sucked. How much it sucked isn't really that important. Actually, passenger pain and suffering is a very important factor to consider when determining compensation paid out. Not really. In the American and British legal traditions, you can't collect pain and suffering damages for dead people. Once they're dead, that's it. However, the heirs/survivors can make a claim for their pain and suffering as a result of losing the dead person. Incorrect. This happened in a previous airline shootdown http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007#Passenger_pain_and_suffering
Don't believe everything that you read on Wikipedia. Here's the opinion.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supremecourt/text/97-704
Long story short, pain suffering damages were not available.
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On July 18 2014 06:29 Hazzyboy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2014 06:17 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Radar and Satellite images could easily detect that I imagine. Yep NATO has tons of radars and satellites in Eastern Ukraine at the moment and if they keep silent - intelligent people know what happened and they know anyway. All air companies starting to withdraw from using Ukrainian air space. Can't expect anything less from a president who gave an order to start a civil war...
Factually incorrect. They are still flying through Ukraine, just not anywhere near separatist controlled areas.
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EPT
