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On July 18 2014 04:33 ahswtini wrote: If separatists are restricting access by investigators, it seems we'll never know what happened.
Nah, we'll know. We have satellite imagery and all of the internet and radio interactions which we are easily able to listen into. Already reports of having listened to their radio calls on this very incident. NSA doing its work haha.
And it's not as if a black box would really help the investigation. Although seeing the wreckage would, but that won't happen. Still can get enough information easily imo.
For all those people spread across the world I give my condolences I can't imagine losing my loved ones or friends like this. Especially sorry for Malaysian Air Lines after a second tragedy. And as for the political side this can erupt given that the nationalities of the passengers were from a variety of places and continues to spark an already powder keg of a region. If the separatists are growing restless and shooting down civilian aircraft I truly worry as to how much further they are willing to go for their cause and how the West will respond as a result.
On July 18 2014 05:10 PhoenixVoid wrote: For all those people spread across the world I give my condolences I can't imagine losing my loved ones or friends like this. Especially sorry for Malaysian Air Lines after a second tragedy. And as for the political side this can erupt given that the nationalities of the passengers were from a variety of places and continues to spark an already powder keg of a region. If the separatists are growing restless and shooting down civilian aircraft I truly worry as to how much further they are willing to go for their cause and how the West will respond as a result.
Shooting down a civilian airliner does nothing for their cause. If this was a shootdown, it was an accidental one.
Interesting is the US of the term 'cargo 200' which is the code for transportation casualties in the Russian/Soviet military.
Yes, how many casual Ukrainian rebels would be versed in such Russian military lingo?
You mean Pro-Russian? We know for a fact that many of them are ex-Russian Intelligence. Such people have been caught and the leader of the Donetsk region is widely known as ex-RI.
Also to put some things into perspective. weapon systems like sa-buk 11 are pretty complicated, they're roughly on the same level as hawk or patriot. Officer training for this kind of air defense in Russia Smolensk is about 6 years. It's highly likely that Russian support goes way farther than what we currently know.
What is the transportation term used for? Does it only apply to civilian craft? Its kind of a broad word.
I think it's just used as a pretty generic term for causalities in the Russian military.
On July 18 2014 05:01 Kennigit wrote: Question: Do you think the SBU is good enough to intercept Russian radio traffic by themselves, or do you think they had help (Western). Give me your uninformed gut feelings and lets talk about it friends.
SBU has been informing about/posting intercapted transmissions and talks since the begining of the conflict. My guess they are capable of it. Constant and direct cooperation with western inteligence (US or British other dont have the capabilities) is not likely.
Interesting is the US of the term 'cargo 200' which is the code for transportation casualties in the Russian/Soviet military.
Yes, how many casual Ukrainian rebels would be versed in such Russian military lingo?
Yeah. Fucking Russia. I am going to be very sad if there aren't serious repercussions for this. This is no longer them being dicks to Ukraine.
His comment was about random Ukrainian guys being accused of knowing all the secret Russian military lingo, which is fairly unlikely. What does your comment have to do with that? Would you be very sad if we in the US didn't get all the repercussions for everything we deserve? We'd be hurting a lot more than Russia would be. It may be selfish of me, but I'm glad karma isn't real. The US would be an absolute hellhole, and I don't know about you, but that's very close to one of the last things I would want.
On July 18 2014 05:01 Kennigit wrote: Question: Do you think the SBU is good enough to intercept Russian radio traffic by themselves, or do you think they had help (Western). Give me your uninformed gut feelings and lets talk about it friends.
Who's sbu? The rebels?
If you're going to keep posting opinions in this thread, i demand you do some research. It should be a crime to not be able to google before posting whatever your brain poops out. Just fucking google
So this is SBU intercepted separatists conversations some of you may have already heard about
1st conversation. Between "Bes" and his russian coordinator Geranin. Bes says they just shot down an airplane, which fell somewhere past Enakievo. Timing - around 30 minutes before the discussion [which took place at 16:40, probably Kyiv time, but can't guarantee that] Coordinator asks where are the pilots [showing they though they were talking about a military airplane].
2nd conversation at 16:33. People nicknamed "Mayor" and "Greek" talk. Mayor informs that the plane exploded in the air and they found the 1st body. Mayor's voice is clearly excited.
3rd conversation at 17:32. Mayor confirms it was 100% a civilian airplane. Mayor's voice is clearly disappointed. Greek asks if there are any weapons on site, but Mayors says there is none. Greek asked about any documents, Mayor said yes, of an Indonesian student of Thompson University.
4th conversation 17:42. Kozitsin and unknown separatist, conversation is extremely weird, so direct translation
Separatist: on TV they report it was AN-26, a Ukrainian transport, but they say [unclear who exactly: either on TV or from internal sources] it has "Malaysian Airlines" insignia on it. What was it doing over Ukraine?
Kozitsin: clearly they were transporting spies. Should not have flown over this territory, there is a fucking war going on.
On July 18 2014 04:37 whiteLotus wrote: basically what kennigit is saying in short, russia has all of them in their deep pockets, and no one can do ANYTHING ,even if another 5 planes will be shot down and 1000 will die. NOTHING.
Military action isn't an option and never has been. Its not like the EU can go crashing in there without running right into the warm embrace of Russia. No one is willing to do that.
Military actions are a valid option against the separatists operating in Ukraine.
NATO/US could impose no fly zones over eastern ukraine, it could actively arm, train & fund Ukrainian forces. It could even go so far as to launch airstrikes against individuals believed to be responsible for this act.
People overstate the economic ramifications in face of 295 civilians murdered
A Spanish air-traffic controller in Kiev saying that the 777 was followed by two fighter jets minutes before it was shot down. On his account he goes on to say that soon after, all foreigners were escorted out and radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
A Spanish air-traffic controller in Kiev saying that the 777 was followed by two fighter jets minutes before it was shot down. On his account he goes on to say that soon after, all foreigners were escorted out and radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
Why is the Ukrainian government trying to hide things while it is accusing Russia (despite it being obvious it was the insurgents) of shooting it down?
On July 18 2014 05:01 Kennigit wrote: Question: Do you think the SBU is good enough to intercept Russian radio traffic by themselves, or do you think they had help (Western). Give me your uninformed gut feelings and lets talk about it friends.
Who's sbu? The rebels?
If you're going to keep posting opinions in this thread, i demand you do some research. It should be a crime to not be able to google before posting whatever your brain poops out. Just fucking google
"The U.S government has concluded that the aircraft was indeed shot down"
Says pentagon spokesperson. They said there was tracking of an object from a surface to air missile system detected. There was also an infrared heat signature in the air. They pieced together all information and concluded it indeed was a missile attack. I know this sounds vague, but it was all I could type as the person was talking, couldn't get everything.
What they basically said is they listed the evidence, then said that they had enough intel to confidently say that the aircraft was indeed shot down.
Again, this is from a pentagon spokesperson speaking in regards to U.S intelligence on the matter, not some shady media outlet.
A Spanish air-traffic controller in Kiev saying that the 777 was followed by two fighter jets minutes before it was shot down. On his account he goes on to say that soon after, all foreigners were escorted out and radar records were immediately confiscated after it became clear a passenger jet was shot down.
yeah, right. Spam the thread with BS, maybe someone does not have time to dig through it and will give up before knowing the truth.
EPT
