EPTMalaysian airliner shot down over Eastern Ukraine - Page 15
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In order to maintain some kind of respectable thread quality and to show some respect for those who lost friends in this tragedy, we're forced to enact a hard line policy for this thread. Any posts holding an opinion on who is responsible or making an accusation that is not held by neutral media will be banned. Policy is in effect from page 27 onwards. Specifically, citing a Ukrainian or Russian source for your claims is going to get you banned. Opinions/facts/accusations arising from neutral media sources (i.e. media whose country of origin is not Ukraine, Russia or one of its puppet states) will be permitted. This policy extends to all forms of media; if a youtube video or picture has not come through a neutral media source then don't post it or you'll be banned. If you wish to discuss this policy please use this website feedback thread. Updated policy on aggressive posting and insults. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
20:31: In the YouTube footage a militant nicknamed "Major" is seen saying it was shot down by "Cossacks from the Chernukhino roadblock". Major goes on to say: "It is definitely a civilian plane... there was a lot of people on board," BBC Monitoring reports. 20:27: BBC Monitoring reports more from the conversation between militants allegedly intercepted by the Ukrainian Security Service. The conversation starts with Igor Bezler, a key militant, apparently telling a Russian security official by phone that the pro-Russian militants have shot down a plane. 20:23: The Ukrainian Security Service SBU has published on its Youtube account what it says are intercepted conversations between pro-Russian militants in which they say they admit shooting down a civilian plane, BBC Monitoring reports. | ||
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whiteLotus
1833 Posts
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
Is putin scheduled to say anything about this? | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On July 18 2014 04:37 whiteLotus wrote: basically what kennigit is saying in short, russia has all of them in their deep pockets, and no one can do ANYTHING ,even if another 5 planes will be shot down and 1000 will die. NOTHING. I disagree. I think (maybe i just hope) that the pressure will be so strong now that the EU must act. If idiots like us can figure out the relationships in 5 minutes, surely it is simple enough to make it to the main stream press. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 18 2014 04:37 whiteLotus wrote: basically what kennigit is saying in short, russia has all of them in their deep pockets, and no one can do ANYTHING ,even if another 5 planes will be shot down and 1000 will die. NOTHING. Military action isn't an option and never has been. Its not like the EU can go crashing in there without running right into the warm embrace of Russia. No one is willing to do that. | ||
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skaffaNL
Netherlands55 Posts
On July 18 2014 04:39 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: sanctions will hurt Finland most of all EU countries Who cares, you guys are rich as hell. These bastards need to get some punishment. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
A statement from the Foreign Ministry in Kiev said the plane had been "shot down." "According to the General Staff of Ukrainian Armed Forces, the airplane was shot down by the Russian Buk missile system as the liner was flying at an altitude of 10,000 meters [33,000 feet]," the statement added. "Ukraine has no long-range air defense missile systems in this area. The plane was shot down, because the Russian air defense systems was affording protection to Russian mercenaries and terrorists in this area. Ukraine will present the evidence of Russian military involvement into the Boeing crash." Source | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On July 18 2014 04:41 Plansix wrote: Military action isn't an option and never has been. Its not like the EU can go crashing in there without running right into the warm embrace of Russia. No one is willing to do that. Something needs to be done honestly. What's Russia going to do if the West stops the separatists? Attack? If no body reacts to what Russia has been doing here they're going to escalate and escalate as long as they please. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On July 18 2014 04:37 Steveling wrote: I'm pretty sure that at least the russians know what happened since they must have satellites monitoring the area all the time. Is putin scheduled to say anything about this? The most important factor is not that the Russians have been watching this. It's that the entire US intelligence community has it's massive eye focused on the Ukraine/Russian border. Hilariously enough, it is the NSA that is tasked with collecting and analysing Communications, Electronics (signals) intelligence....The one thing we can almost guarantee is that what really happened here WILL go public.It is right in like with US foreign policy to make it so. There was a very famous case in 1983 which i highly recommend all of you guys read about - flight KAL 007. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_007 I suspect that this shoot down will be Putin's KAL 007. It completely changed the dynamic of the cold war. The US, while at the time was so prone to hiding all intel, went almost fully public....releasing everything it discovered about the shoot down. It was burning oil in the face of the Kremlin. You can see that the Russians are already trying to get ahead of this through state media (the RT story on shooting down Putin's plane is hilarious). | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On July 18 2014 04:37 whiteLotus wrote: basically what kennigit is saying in short, russia has all of them in their deep pockets, and no one can do ANYTHING ,even if another 5 planes will be shot down and 1000 will die. NOTHING. If even 1 more passenger plane gets shot down over Ukraine world pressure would be enormous for the fighting to end. Governments get super-freaked about this kind of stuff. The perception of the safety of jet liners carrying hundreds of people or large amounts of cargo tens of thousands of feet in the air higher than the globe's tallest mountains is very important to trade and travel. It's a deeply held almost unconscious assumption that the plane will not crash and will not be shot down. You have multiple planes going down because people are shooting them down and lots of other people will straight freak out pretty hard. No the West wouldn't threaten to go to war but sanctions threats against Russia would not be a joke anymore and they'd lean on Poroshenko hard as well to declare another ceasefire and negotiate. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On July 18 2014 04:43 Nyxisto wrote: Something needs to be done honestly. What's Russia going to do if the West stops the separatists? Attack? If no body reacts to what Russia has been doing here they're going to escalate and escalate as long as they please. Military action is not a solution at this point. Russia has said they will not tolerate it and the US and EU do not have the public will for a full scale military engagement. Really, sanctions are the only solid route through this that doesn't involve everyone getting dragged into a larger conflict. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On July 18 2014 01:04 Steveling wrote: I don't trust their propaganda. I'll wait for Putin to say something. lol mate, Putin? That's about as bad propaganda. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On July 18 2014 04:49 Plansix wrote: Military action is not a solution at this point. Russia has said they will not tolerate it and the US and EU do not have the public will for a full scale military engagement. Really, sanctions are the only solid route through this that doesn't involve everyone getting dragged into a larger conflict. Russia is also saying that they're not supporting the separatists. Russia is saying a lot of stuff. Someone simply needs to call Putin out on this. 300 dead civilians is the worst thing that has happened for years, maybe the worst thing after 9/11 and has effectively brought this conflict directly to central Europe/the US. realpolitik and some sanctions are not cutting it apparently. | ||
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Kennigit
Canada19447 Posts
On July 18 2014 01:04 Steveling wrote: I don't trust their propaganda. I'll wait for Putin to say something. This is approaching maximum troll tier. | ||
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Enzymatic
Canada1301 Posts
On July 18 2014 04:49 Plansix wrote: Military action is not a solution at this point. Russia has said they will not tolerate it and the US and EU do not have the public will for a full scale military engagement. Really, sanctions are the only solid route through this that doesn't involve everyone getting dragged into a larger conflict. Russia is calling the separatists their own separate entity, and saying that they aren't supporting, motivating, or promoting their actions in Ukraine. Send some "peacekeepers"/military into Ukraine to eradicate the separatists (whatever nation(s)), Russia shouldn't have any problem with that considering their hands are clean and they have nothing to do with it, right? | ||
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