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On August 08 2013 18:12 MikeMM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 17:57 MidKnight wrote:On August 08 2013 17:21 MikeMM wrote:On August 08 2013 07:23 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 06:39 ftm wrote:
I really don't get why this is a deal-breaker? Isn't gay rights about tolerance and open mindedness? And, if it is, then aren't we supposed to be tolerant and open-minded towards those who don't support gay rights?
RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* ????? What the hell are you talking about? This is a law that bans open support for gay rights. It's an anti-free-speech law. And you're saying it's intolerant to reject that????? I have to be tolerant of people silencing me???? What the hell kind of warped language are you using? You shouldn't be able to use words with the way you treat them. What the hell are you talking about? Gays in Russia have as many rights as other people. They have right to work, study, have medical care and other various rights. And about the issue of silencing. All the countries silence opposition. Didnt USA silence Maning and Snowden? This law doesn’t prevent gays from demanding their rights, it prevents them from demanding privileges. Do you really think that having rights as long as people don't know something about you counts? Would they have all those rights if they admitted to being gay? "Do whatever you want, but don't tell us about it" is NOT in any way tolerant. It makes a significant % of the population feel bad about their lives because they cannot be who they are openly. And that has nothing to do with "putting your sexuality on the pedestal", it's just being a normal human being like being allowed to hold hands or kiss in public. What laws like this do is keep increasing intolerance, majority of the population STILL think that "homosexuals are sick perverts on the same level with pedophiles or zoophiles and need mental health". I hope you know why this kind of belief is harmful. Yes they would have all this rights. Do you honestly think that in Russia police ask every single person if they are gay or not and put gays in black list and does everithing to make their life worse?
It has nothing to do with police. You are hiding intolerance by basically saying "Be gay, but don't tell anyone about it and it's all good". This is the issue here. People can be straight, show their affection, be "proud of it" while gays are treated as someone "sick".
The point is that majority of population still belive that homosexuality is some kind of disease or "mental disorder". Which is simply factually incorrect. Laws like this don't help the cause.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On August 08 2013 18:50 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 17:37 hfglgg wrote:On August 08 2013 17:21 MikeMM wrote:On August 08 2013 07:23 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 06:39 ftm wrote:
I really don't get why this is a deal-breaker? Isn't gay rights about tolerance and open mindedness? And, if it is, then aren't we supposed to be tolerant and open-minded towards those who don't support gay rights?
RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* ????? What the hell are you talking about? This is a law that bans open support for gay rights. It's an anti-free-speech law. And you're saying it's intolerant to reject that????? I have to be tolerant of people silencing me???? What the hell kind of warped language are you using? You shouldn't be able to use words with the way you treat them. What the hell are you talking about? Gays in Russia have as many rights as other people. They have right to work, study, have medical care and other various rights. And about the issue of silencing. All the countries silence opposition. Didnt USA silence Maning and Snowden? This law doesn’t prevent gays from demanding their rights, it prevents them from demanding privileges. i dont think gays get trials in russia. just deal with it, your country is going backwards and in the future your generation will be laughed at because you act so stupid. edit: gays arent even "the opposition" and a country that silence them is generally considered a big douchbag country no one wants to live in. nice understanding of democracy mate. To be honest, there are quite a few countries that are not gayfriendly where I wouldn't mind living. As a matter of fact, homosexuality is looked down upon in most of the world. It's recently been gaining ground in the West, and being from the West, we view our world view as superior and want to force it upon the rest of the world, which we traditionally regard as backward and inferior. I find it downright arrogant to think that Europeans or people from the US have any say in the domestic policy of other countries. If Russia wants to enforce an anti-gay law, so be it. It's their decision.
You appear to have forgotten the context of the thread, for one 
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On August 08 2013 18:51 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 18:50 maartendq wrote:On August 08 2013 17:37 hfglgg wrote:On August 08 2013 17:21 MikeMM wrote:On August 08 2013 07:23 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 06:39 ftm wrote:
I really don't get why this is a deal-breaker? Isn't gay rights about tolerance and open mindedness? And, if it is, then aren't we supposed to be tolerant and open-minded towards those who don't support gay rights?
RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* ????? What the hell are you talking about? This is a law that bans open support for gay rights. It's an anti-free-speech law. And you're saying it's intolerant to reject that????? I have to be tolerant of people silencing me???? What the hell kind of warped language are you using? You shouldn't be able to use words with the way you treat them. What the hell are you talking about? Gays in Russia have as many rights as other people. They have right to work, study, have medical care and other various rights. And about the issue of silencing. All the countries silence opposition. Didnt USA silence Maning and Snowden? This law doesn’t prevent gays from demanding their rights, it prevents them from demanding privileges. i dont think gays get trials in russia. just deal with it, your country is going backwards and in the future your generation will be laughed at because you act so stupid. edit: gays arent even "the opposition" and a country that silence them is generally considered a big douchbag country no one wants to live in. nice understanding of democracy mate. To be honest, there are quite a few countries that are not gayfriendly where I wouldn't mind living. As a matter of fact, homosexuality is looked down upon in most of the world. It's recently been gaining ground in the West, and being from the West, we view our world view as superior and want to force it upon the rest of the world, which we traditionally regard as backward and inferior. I find it downright arrogant to think that Europeans or people from the US have any say in the domestic policy of other countries. If Russia wants to enforce an anti-gay law, so be it. It's their decision. You appear to have forgotten the context of the thread, for one
I just don't see the issue in Russia enforcing its own laws during the olympics. Noone cared about the human rights violations in China (arguably a much bigger issue) during the Beijing Olympics in 2008, but as soon as it's about gay rights, everyone is up in arms.
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On August 08 2013 18:50 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 17:37 hfglgg wrote:On August 08 2013 17:21 MikeMM wrote:On August 08 2013 07:23 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 06:39 ftm wrote:
I really don't get why this is a deal-breaker? Isn't gay rights about tolerance and open mindedness? And, if it is, then aren't we supposed to be tolerant and open-minded towards those who don't support gay rights?
RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* ????? What the hell are you talking about? This is a law that bans open support for gay rights. It's an anti-free-speech law. And you're saying it's intolerant to reject that????? I have to be tolerant of people silencing me???? What the hell kind of warped language are you using? You shouldn't be able to use words with the way you treat them. What the hell are you talking about? Gays in Russia have as many rights as other people. They have right to work, study, have medical care and other various rights. And about the issue of silencing. All the countries silence opposition. Didnt USA silence Maning and Snowden? This law doesn’t prevent gays from demanding their rights, it prevents them from demanding privileges. i dont think gays get trials in russia. just deal with it, your country is going backwards and in the future your generation will be laughed at because you act so stupid. edit: gays arent even "the opposition" and a country that silence them is generally considered a big douchbag country no one wants to live in. nice understanding of democracy mate. To be honest, there are quite a few countries that are not gayfriendly where I wouldn't mind living. As a matter of fact, homosexuality is looked down upon in most of the world. It's recently been gaining ground in the West, and being from the West, we view our world view as superior and want to force it upon the rest of the world, which we traditionally regard as backward and inferior. I find it downright arrogant to think that Europeans or people from the US have any say in the domestic policy of other countries. If Russia wants to enforce an anti-gay law, so be it. It's their decision. Human Rights is another Western invention that not really a whole lot of countries care about either, even in Europe and the US.
there are also countries where you need 4 male witnesses to prove the rape of a woman, which essentially means rape is legal, because how often do four good samaritans accidentally walk into a room where a woman is being raped?
are you telling me i shouldn't be morally outraged by that? i should ignore the suffering of rape victims because they're from a different culture? i don't give a fuck what your culture is, if that culture condones oppressing or torturing people, yes, i will be outraged and do what little i can to change it or raise awareness of it.
and before you claim i'm comparing rape to oppressing gay people, it doesn't matter that one is worse than the other, what matters is that you said the reason we can't have opinions on it is because "it's another culture". this is the same reasoning that christian scientists use to torture and slaughter their children by not allowing them medical care, and US courts have struck down their claims of a cultural religious right to do so because it is inhumane to people. oppressing homosexuals is also inhumane.
On August 08 2013 18:58 maartendq wrote:
Noone cared about the human rights violations in China (arguably a much bigger issue) during the Beijing Olympics in 2008 this is just blatantly, blatantly false. if you're not straight up lying, you are extremely misinformed
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On August 08 2013 18:50 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 17:37 hfglgg wrote:On August 08 2013 17:21 MikeMM wrote:On August 08 2013 07:23 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 06:39 ftm wrote:
I really don't get why this is a deal-breaker? Isn't gay rights about tolerance and open mindedness? And, if it is, then aren't we supposed to be tolerant and open-minded towards those who don't support gay rights?
RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* ????? What the hell are you talking about? This is a law that bans open support for gay rights. It's an anti-free-speech law. And you're saying it's intolerant to reject that????? I have to be tolerant of people silencing me???? What the hell kind of warped language are you using? You shouldn't be able to use words with the way you treat them. What the hell are you talking about? Gays in Russia have as many rights as other people. They have right to work, study, have medical care and other various rights. And about the issue of silencing. All the countries silence opposition. Didnt USA silence Maning and Snowden? This law doesn’t prevent gays from demanding their rights, it prevents them from demanding privileges. i dont think gays get trials in russia. just deal with it, your country is going backwards and in the future your generation will be laughed at because you act so stupid. edit: gays arent even "the opposition" and a country that silence them is generally considered a big douchbag country no one wants to live in. nice understanding of democracy mate. To be honest, there are quite a few countries that are not gayfriendly where I wouldn't mind living. As a matter of fact, homosexuality is looked down upon in most of the world. It's recently been gaining ground in the West, and being from the West, we view our world view as superior and want to force it upon the rest of the world, which we traditionally regard as backward and inferior.
I find it downright arrogant to think that Europeans or people from the US have any say in the domestic policy of other countries. If Russia wants to enforce an anti-gay law, so be it. It's their decision.
Okay, let me try to make something clear. I dislike ritual animal sacrifices practiced by culture and society largely because I grew up much more secular. The sacrifice of the animal which will be eaten later is not infringing upon democratic rights of other people, it is part of their culture and it should be protected under any healthy liberal democracy. But animal rights groups will disagree but that is for a different thread.
This anti-gay law on the other hand prevents LGBT people from public speaking. Other regions are more specific and state transsexualism and bisexuality as part of anti-gay propaganda and lots of gay rights demonstrations have been broken up by authorities. That is the major problem. Free speech includes allowing people who the public dislike to speak.
And stop with the anti-Americanism, anti-Europeanism, you are making people who have a legitimate reason to have such sentiments look bad.
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And what is contex of this tread? Matter is very simple.
1) If you go to other country you have to respect laws of that country.
2) Olimpics movement have no any connection with any social or political movements. It Purpouse is to promote peace and sport. Show that we do something in common, we all like sports.
That is cpntex of that tread.
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On August 08 2013 19:01 Mutineer wrote:
1) If you go to other country you have to respect laws of that country. in my country it's legal to make posts on internet forums saying that other countries' laws are outrageous and wrong, so what the fuck is your point?
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On August 08 2013 18:18 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 18:04 Figgy wrote:
Who the hell cares?
Don't wave your damned pride flags around while you are competing and it will be absolutely no different from any other olympics ever held.
Follow the local laws which is what you should do in ANY country and you'll be just fine.
If a bunch of hippies from some Heroine legal country came to Canada and started injecting needles in their arms and told me it was okay because the olympics are a global event and that's what they do in their country I'd say get the fuck out I don't give a shit what you do at home keep it out of MY backyard.
You know you're making a really shit point when you compare homosexuality to heroin use to try to make your point.
what about Gun laws?
If China is hosting an olympics and the US are promoting gun law to be established in China, why can't China say no to these 'propaganda'?
People on the net like KwarK can write beautifully sounding reasons to convince this is the basic human right, the right to protect themselves and add sentences to make it sounds more convincing.
But it won't change anything because each country has its own pace in adapting something and its own ideology and society. You can't just force things to change when their own locals don't care.
It seems the western countries never really learn to respect the other countries' culture and has to apply their own ways onto things. Compare how China explored the world during the ancient time, we had culture and economy exchange mostly in peace, rarely intervenes foreign politics. That's why China had influence on their culture but not a complete overtake.
compare it to the exploring western countries like Spain and Britain, setting up colonies and even forcing up ports to open up trades. The britism museum is THE place to witness how much Britain has taken from other countries and display it as a treasure box lol
Things still are the same with the US intervening in the middle east, for democracy, basic human right etcetc. When the war itself kills civilians, destroyed their economy and culture, even now the situation is unstable. Just think about how that region's political issue they are gonna have for the next hundreds of years.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On August 08 2013 19:03 ETisME wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 18:18 marvellosity wrote:On August 08 2013 18:04 Figgy wrote:
Who the hell cares?
Don't wave your damned pride flags around while you are competing and it will be absolutely no different from any other olympics ever held.
Follow the local laws which is what you should do in ANY country and you'll be just fine.
If a bunch of hippies from some Heroine legal country came to Canada and started injecting needles in their arms and told me it was okay because the olympics are a global event and that's what they do in their country I'd say get the fuck out I don't give a shit what you do at home keep it out of MY backyard.
You know you're making a really shit point when you compare homosexuality to heroin use to try to make your point. what about Gun laws? If China is hosting an olympics and the US are promoting gun law to be established in China, why can't China say no to these 'propaganda'?
Much like taking heroin, carrying a gun is a choice. Anything else?
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On August 08 2013 19:03 ETisME wrote:You can't just force things to change when their own locals don't care.
stop posting this stupid argument. assembling on a forum and speaking out about another country's laws has nothing to do with "forcing" anyone to do anything.
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On August 08 2013 18:30 Val_ wrote:
Personally i dont like gays. Gay+Gay+a child is a terrible thing. When I grew up I had a mom and a dad.
Dad learned me to stay strong, be man, etc etc, mom also helped to raise me as only woman can.
Not two fking pervert "Dads" or "Parent#1 and Parent#2"
Do what you want at home. But not on the TV, radio, newspapers, or on the street (this "gay demonstrations", etc)
I do not want that my child will see gays and other perverts on the street.
Am I the only natural here? ppl?
No, it's not a terrible thing. Look up actual studies about gay parents. There's nothing to suggest they do anything wrong to the kids or mess them up or harm them in any way.
Your understanding is simply factually incorrect. The only problem for the kid is the fact that people who think like you exist and would be intolerant in the sight of 2 same sex parents with a kid. There's no other harm.
And if you truly believe in the traditional family.
What about single parents? You do know that A LOT of kids grow up with only a single mother or father, right? What happens to those kids? Or the ones who don't have parents at all and grow up in adoption centers?
I do not want that my child will see gays and other perverts on the street.
See, that's the problem. You have a belief that they are perverts or "sick". That's a wrong belief. The reason they go out on the streets is NOT to show that homosexuality should be promoted or encouraged. It's to show that they are same people like you and me and they just want to be treated equally.
It is completely stupid to hate people for something they didn't choose or hurts other people.
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On August 08 2013 18:59 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 18:50 maartendq wrote:On August 08 2013 17:37 hfglgg wrote:On August 08 2013 17:21 MikeMM wrote:On August 08 2013 07:23 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 06:39 ftm wrote:
I really don't get why this is a deal-breaker? Isn't gay rights about tolerance and open mindedness? And, if it is, then aren't we supposed to be tolerant and open-minded towards those who don't support gay rights?
RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* ????? What the hell are you talking about? This is a law that bans open support for gay rights. It's an anti-free-speech law. And you're saying it's intolerant to reject that????? I have to be tolerant of people silencing me???? What the hell kind of warped language are you using? You shouldn't be able to use words with the way you treat them. What the hell are you talking about? Gays in Russia have as many rights as other people. They have right to work, study, have medical care and other various rights. And about the issue of silencing. All the countries silence opposition. Didnt USA silence Maning and Snowden? This law doesn’t prevent gays from demanding their rights, it prevents them from demanding privileges. i dont think gays get trials in russia. just deal with it, your country is going backwards and in the future your generation will be laughed at because you act so stupid. edit: gays arent even "the opposition" and a country that silence them is generally considered a big douchbag country no one wants to live in. nice understanding of democracy mate. To be honest, there are quite a few countries that are not gayfriendly where I wouldn't mind living. As a matter of fact, homosexuality is looked down upon in most of the world. It's recently been gaining ground in the West, and being from the West, we view our world view as superior and want to force it upon the rest of the world, which we traditionally regard as backward and inferior. I find it downright arrogant to think that Europeans or people from the US have any say in the domestic policy of other countries. If Russia wants to enforce an anti-gay law, so be it. It's their decision. Human Rights is another Western invention that not really a whole lot of countries care about either, even in Europe and the US. there are also countries where you need 4 male witnesses to prove the rape of a woman, which essentially means rape is legal, because how often do four good samaritans accidentally walk into a room where a woman is being raped? are you telling me i shouldn't be morally outraged by that? i should ignore the suffering of rape victims because they're from a different culture? i don't give a fuck what your culture is, if that culture condones oppressing or torturing people, yes, i will be outraged and do what little i can to change it or raise awareness of it. and before you claim i'm comparing rape to oppressing gay people, it doesn't matter that one is worse than the other, what matters is that you said the reason we can't have opinions on it is because "it's another culture". this is the same reasoning that christian scientists use to torture and slaughter their children by not allowing them medical care, and US courts have struck down their claims of a cultural religious right to do so because it is inhumane to people. oppressing homosexuals is also inhumane. Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 18:58 maartendq wrote:
Noone cared about the human rights violations in China (arguably a much bigger issue) during the Beijing Olympics in 2008 this is just blatantly, blatantly false. if you're not straight up lying, you are extremely misinformed
There's a huge difference between four male witnesses having to be present to testify a rape and gay rights. In many cultures, marriage is a sacred union of a man and a woman. In those cultures, there is also a form of invisible social pressure for a girl or a boy to find a suitable mate, and to marry that person. Your family's honour can depend on it, as does your own future. You can be gay all you like, but going public with it is literally not an option.
Is this wrong? No. It's just different. I've had the pleasure to live with a Muslim family in Malaysia for a month and I learned a lot. For them, the mere idea that people of the same sex could get married crosses a line human being should not cross. The mere idea of homosexuality makes them incredibly uncomfortable. You don't need to travel far to see people opposing things like gay marriage though. Most somewhat conservative people (religious or not) in Europe and the rest of the developed world will probably feel uncomfortable as well.
Come to think of it. My sister went to the World Youth Days in Rio De Janeiro last month, with her girlfriend (she's gay). Both knew, however, that Brazil, being a conservative catholic country, wasn't a place where they should be walking hand in hand, let alone kiss each other in public. So instead of thinking "we can do all that in Belgium so we can do that everywhere else in the world; fuck other people's sensitivities" they just played nicely and pretended to just be good friends, in public at least.
People being uncomfortable with gay rights does not mean those people are wrong. You think these people are wrong because in your country you do things differently. Likewise, these people will think that you are wrong because they do things differently. It's not about who's right or who's wrong. Cultures differ. This doesn't mean that one can't be outraged by some practices since some of them are unacceptable by any standard (your example of the four witnesses is a very good example of that) but it does mean that people need to have a more nuanced look on the world.
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Russian Federation221 Posts
On August 08 2013 18:51 MidKnight wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 18:12 MikeMM wrote:On August 08 2013 17:57 MidKnight wrote:On August 08 2013 17:21 MikeMM wrote:On August 08 2013 07:23 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 06:39 ftm wrote:
I really don't get why this is a deal-breaker? Isn't gay rights about tolerance and open mindedness? And, if it is, then aren't we supposed to be tolerant and open-minded towards those who don't support gay rights?
RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* ????? What the hell are you talking about? This is a law that bans open support for gay rights. It's an anti-free-speech law. And you're saying it's intolerant to reject that????? I have to be tolerant of people silencing me???? What the hell kind of warped language are you using? You shouldn't be able to use words with the way you treat them. What the hell are you talking about? Gays in Russia have as many rights as other people. They have right to work, study, have medical care and other various rights. And about the issue of silencing. All the countries silence opposition. Didnt USA silence Maning and Snowden? This law doesn’t prevent gays from demanding their rights, it prevents them from demanding privileges. Do you really think that having rights as long as people don't know something about you counts? Would they have all those rights if they admitted to being gay? "Do whatever you want, but don't tell us about it" is NOT in any way tolerant. It makes a significant % of the population feel bad about their lives because they cannot be who they are openly. And that has nothing to do with "putting your sexuality on the pedestal", it's just being a normal human being like being allowed to hold hands or kiss in public. What laws like this do is keep increasing intolerance, majority of the population STILL think that "homosexuals are sick perverts on the same level with pedophiles or zoophiles and need mental health". I hope you know why this kind of belief is harmful. Yes they would have all this rights. Do you honestly think that in Russia police ask every single person if they are gay or not and put gays in black list and does everithing to make their life worse? It has nothing to do with police. You are hiding intolerance by basically saying "Be gay, but don't tell anyone about it and it's all good". This is the issue here. People can be straight, show their affection, be "proud of it" while gays are treated as someone "sick". The point is that majority of population still belive that homosexuality is some kind of disease or "mental disorder". Which is simply factually incorrect. Laws like this don't help the cause.
Do you live in Russia?How do you know then?
We dont belive that homosexuality is some kind of disease or "mental disorder".
Not at all.
We dont much care what they do at home in bed. Its their business.
We just think that it is not normal. By normal I mean that about 99% of population are not gay.
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edit: you know what, i'm getting too angry and what i wrote originally in this post is a bad idea. maarten, you are making wrong assumptions about me and not listening to my arguments and i'm not going to discuss this with you anymore.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
Personally I'm pretty happy calling any country/culture that advocates baseless inequality for race/sex/sexuality/whatever 'wrong'. I'm sure this is my western, white privilege and all, but I'm ok with that. It seems fundamental enough to me that I'm willing to hold it as right and criticise those who don't believe it.
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On August 08 2013 19:33 marvellosity wrote:
Personally I'm pretty happy calling any country/culture that advocates baseless inequality for race/sex/sexuality/whatever 'wrong'. I'm sure this is my western, white privilege and all, but I'm ok with that. It seems fundamental enough to me that I'm willing to hold it as right and criticise those who don't believe it.
these arguments always end up here - there's a shortage of logic in the homophobia apologists' rhetoric, so they have to resort to the strawman of saying "westerners are forcing/imposing their will on other cultures" and trying to make it about privilege or imperialism. yawn. organizing and speaking out about something we think is wrong does not oppress or force anything on any other culture. we're all grown ups and we all live on the same planet. you don't get to skirt moral issues by whining and ranting about someone from another culture criticizing the customs of yours. criticism is a right.
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United Kingdom36156 Posts
On August 08 2013 19:41 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 19:33 marvellosity wrote:
Personally I'm pretty happy calling any country/culture that advocates baseless inequality for race/sex/sexuality/whatever 'wrong'. I'm sure this is my western, white privilege and all, but I'm ok with that. It seems fundamental enough to me that I'm willing to hold it as right and criticise those who don't believe it. these arguments always end up here - there's a shortage of logic in the homophobia apologists' rhetoric, so they have to resort to the strawman of saying "westerners are forcing/imposing their will on other cultures" and trying to make it about privilege or imperialism. yawn. organizing and speaking out about something we think is wrong does not oppress or force anything on any other culture. we're all grown ups and we all live on the same planet. you don't get to skirt moral issues by whining and ranting about someone from another culture criticizing the customs of yours. criticism is a right.
Right. It's nice having rationality on your side, isn't it? ^_^
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We just think that it is not normal. By normal I mean that about 99% of population are not gay.
What if a completely blind-born person would participate in a particular (doable) sport at the olympics. He's not normal, he's definitely not similar to 99% of the population.
Do you go about beating, persecuting and banning him from the event? No, not unless you're living in the 7th fucking century. Which is kinda the point everyone's trying to make.
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On August 08 2013 19:45 n0ise wrote:Show nested quote +We just think that it is not normal. By normal I mean that about 99% of population are not gay. What if a completely blind-born person would participate in a particular (doable) sport at the olympics. He's not normal, he's definitely not similar to 99% of the population. Do you go about beating, persecuting and banning him from the event? No, not unless you're living in the 7th fucking century. Which is kinda the point everyone's trying to make.
and Russia isn't doing that.
did you even read the article?
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On August 08 2013 19:20 MikeMM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 18:51 MidKnight wrote:On August 08 2013 18:12 MikeMM wrote:On August 08 2013 17:57 MidKnight wrote:On August 08 2013 17:21 MikeMM wrote:On August 08 2013 07:23 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 06:39 ftm wrote:
I really don't get why this is a deal-breaker? Isn't gay rights about tolerance and open mindedness? And, if it is, then aren't we supposed to be tolerant and open-minded towards those who don't support gay rights?
RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* ????? What the hell are you talking about? This is a law that bans open support for gay rights. It's an anti-free-speech law. And you're saying it's intolerant to reject that????? I have to be tolerant of people silencing me???? What the hell kind of warped language are you using? You shouldn't be able to use words with the way you treat them. What the hell are you talking about? Gays in Russia have as many rights as other people. They have right to work, study, have medical care and other various rights. And about the issue of silencing. All the countries silence opposition. Didnt USA silence Maning and Snowden? This law doesn’t prevent gays from demanding their rights, it prevents them from demanding privileges. Do you really think that having rights as long as people don't know something about you counts? Would they have all those rights if they admitted to being gay? "Do whatever you want, but don't tell us about it" is NOT in any way tolerant. It makes a significant % of the population feel bad about their lives because they cannot be who they are openly. And that has nothing to do with "putting your sexuality on the pedestal", it's just being a normal human being like being allowed to hold hands or kiss in public. What laws like this do is keep increasing intolerance, majority of the population STILL think that "homosexuals are sick perverts on the same level with pedophiles or zoophiles and need mental health". I hope you know why this kind of belief is harmful. Yes they would have all this rights. Do you honestly think that in Russia police ask every single person if they are gay or not and put gays in black list and does everithing to make their life worse? It has nothing to do with police. You are hiding intolerance by basically saying "Be gay, but don't tell anyone about it and it's all good". This is the issue here. People can be straight, show their affection, be "proud of it" while gays are treated as someone "sick". The point is that majority of population still belive that homosexuality is some kind of disease or "mental disorder". Which is simply factually incorrect. Laws like this don't help the cause. Do you live in Russia?How do you know then? We dont belive that homosexuality is some kind of disease or "mental disorder". Not at all. We dont much care what they do at home in bed. Its their business. We just think that it is not normal. By normal I mean that about 99% of population are not gay.
I live in a post soviet country where people have very similar attitudes. See, the thing is that it's not just "what people do in bedroom". Sexuality is something everyone should be comfortable with.
Again, the great example, which you didn't address is holding hands or kissing in public. Why can straight couples do that with no problem, while gays wouldn't be able to without discrimination? You can pretend it's not the case, but you very well know how it works. Most people feel "disgusted" if they saw something like that. That's the problem.
Laws like this prevent people from being who they are.
And if you define normal like that. What about people who are born without legs or arms? They are even less common than 1%. Can they show themselves in public and why aren't there laws to prevent that?
The whole thing comes down to a belief that kids seeing gays will somehow make them more likely to be gay or that homosexuality is a perversion. Both of which are ridiculous to any rational human being.
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