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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On May 09 2015 22:30 Pandemona wrote:
Not going to lie, i haven't even looked at Labour since Blair left. I was one of those who was drawn to Mr Blair, that guy was such a good speaker. Could convince me of anything. When he left Labour declined, Gordon Brown tarnished the party so bad. When Ed Milliband came in nothing changed he wasn't the leader they needed they need a good speaker with a touch of personality to get somewhere now.
To be fair Blair did shoot himself in the foot when he said he would step down for Brown after a few years and then waiting nearly 10 to actually make good on his promise.
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United States44191 Posts
Also Brown didn't tarnish the legacy Blair left. Blair left a poison chalice.
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On May 10 2015 00:07 KwarK wrote:
Also Brown didn't tarnish the legacy Blair left. Blair left a poison chalice.
Ehhh there was like a good 2-3 months where the people loved Brown and Labour were seriously considering having a flash election. It just went down hill really quickly after that due to how many gaffs Brown made
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So, any chance UK will exit the EU now? As a stout pro-European, I'd gladly get rid of the cherry-picking US moles who hinder our progress. However, that would spell doom for the British economy, and Cameron knows it.
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United States44191 Posts
On May 10 2015 00:21 Scorch wrote:
So, any chance UK will exit the EU now? As a stout pro-European, I'd gladly get rid of the cherry-picking US moles who hinder our progress. However, that would spell doom for the British economy, and Cameron knows it.
We'll be staying in the EU we joined which was the common market. The EU we didn't join was the political project ending in a total loss of sovereignty.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On May 10 2015 00:07 KwarK wrote:
Also Brown didn't tarnish the legacy Blair left. Blair left a poison chalice.
Hmm? Brown had the job for 3 years? Then Brown left a country with 0 money xD
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I seriously doubt we'll be leaving the EU, especially with the upcoming TTIP.
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On May 10 2015 00:31 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 00:21 Scorch wrote:
So, any chance UK will exit the EU now? As a stout pro-European, I'd gladly get rid of the cherry-picking US moles who hinder our progress. However, that would spell doom for the British economy, and Cameron knows it. We'll be staying in the EU we joined which was the common market. The EU we didn't join was the political project ending in a total loss of sovereignty.
I doubt that will be an option. British finance inside the internal market is a thing only as long as Britain agrees to continued free movement of labour.
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It'd be a devastating loss for the EU if we lost the biggest economic force in the UK, that'd probably be the end of the EU and a serious blow to Euro-American relations.
The UK is like our big brother who runs with the cool crowd.
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United States44191 Posts
On May 10 2015 03:43 KlaCkoN wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 00:31 KwarK wrote:On May 10 2015 00:21 Scorch wrote:
So, any chance UK will exit the EU now? As a stout pro-European, I'd gladly get rid of the cherry-picking US moles who hinder our progress. However, that would spell doom for the British economy, and Cameron knows it. We'll be staying in the EU we joined which was the common market. The EU we didn't join was the political project ending in a total loss of sovereignty. I doubt that will be an option. British finance inside the internal market is a thing only as long as Britain agrees to continued free movement of labour.
Free movement of labour is a part of the common market that we joined. The question is whether the common market was the first step on an inevitable road to the total loss of sovereignty and a federal Europe or whether it was an end in itself. For many people in Britain it was an end in itself which conflicts with the wishes of those who want to move the project forwards.
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On May 10 2015 03:58 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 03:43 KlaCkoN wrote:On May 10 2015 00:31 KwarK wrote:On May 10 2015 00:21 Scorch wrote:
So, any chance UK will exit the EU now? As a stout pro-European, I'd gladly get rid of the cherry-picking US moles who hinder our progress. However, that would spell doom for the British economy, and Cameron knows it. We'll be staying in the EU we joined which was the common market. The EU we didn't join was the political project ending in a total loss of sovereignty. I doubt that will be an option. British finance inside the internal market is a thing only as long as Britain agrees to continued free movement of labour. Free movement of labour is a part of the common market that we joined. The question is whether the common market was the first step on an inevitable road to the total loss of sovereignty and a federal Europe or whether it was an end in itself. For many people in Britain it was an end in itself which conflicts with the wishes of those who want to move the project forwards.
That's the problem with the UK, and movement such as UKIP. They have some real arguments, but can't seems to understand that a common union cannot exist in the long run without a political union, at least not with a common currency. It's not some kind of secret plot made by eurocrats against the nations, it was bound to happen that countries within europe would lost sovereignty considering the way the euro was (badly) made.
For some reason they believe they can completly separate economic union and free trade with political union and free movement of labor.
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I think it's a little weird that the UK on a European level stresses the importance of sovereignty this much while it is the exact same thing that has nearly driven Scotland out of their own Union, with the exact same argument, namely that the larger structure only has their own best interest at heart and is hurting the periphery. I don't think you can be in favour of a strong unified UK and try to weaken European integration at the same time.
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On May 10 2015 04:27 Nyxisto wrote:
I think it's a little weird that the UK on a European level stresses the importance of sovereignty this much while it is the exact same thing that has nearly driven Scotland out of their own Union, with the exact same argument, namely that the larger structure only has their own best interest at heart and is hurting the periphery. I don't think you can be in favour of a strong unified UK and try to weaken European integration at the same time.
The UK is an exemple of democracy. Look at the last election, most head of the movement that did wrong just left the momvent, taking responsability for the loss. It's pretty impossible to compare it to the EU, which is not a democratic institution.
Just take it into consideration : Scotland is in the UK since way more than any european countries, and they can leave after just a vote, while there are no possible way to permit a country from leaving the euro.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On May 10 2015 04:33 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 04:27 Nyxisto wrote:
I think it's a little weird that the UK on a European level stresses the importance of sovereignty this much while it is the exact same thing that has nearly driven Scotland out of their own Union, with the exact same argument, namely that the larger structure only has their own best interest at heart and is hurting the periphery. I don't think you can be in favour of a strong unified UK and try to weaken European integration at the same time. The UK is an exemple of democracy. Look at the last election, most head of the movement that did wrong just left the momvent, taking responsability for the loss. It's pretty impossible to compare it to the EU, which is not a democratic institution. Just take it into consideration : Scotland is in the UK since way more than any european countries, and they can leave after just a vote, while there are no possible way to permit a country from leaving the euro.
ugh what?
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On May 10 2015 04:35 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 04:33 WhiteDog wrote:On May 10 2015 04:27 Nyxisto wrote:
I think it's a little weird that the UK on a European level stresses the importance of sovereignty this much while it is the exact same thing that has nearly driven Scotland out of their own Union, with the exact same argument, namely that the larger structure only has their own best interest at heart and is hurting the periphery. I don't think you can be in favour of a strong unified UK and try to weaken European integration at the same time. The UK is an exemple of democracy. Look at the last election, most head of the movement that did wrong just left the momvent, taking responsability for the loss. It's pretty impossible to compare it to the EU, which is not a democratic institution. Just take it into consideration : Scotland is in the UK since way more than any european countries, and they can leave after just a vote, while there are no possible way to permit a country from leaving the euro. ugh what?
You think you can change europe from the inside ? You think the citizen of england believe that they can influence the evolution of europe through their vote ?
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On May 10 2015 04:33 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 04:27 Nyxisto wrote:
I think it's a little weird that the UK on a European level stresses the importance of sovereignty this much while it is the exact same thing that has nearly driven Scotland out of their own Union, with the exact same argument, namely that the larger structure only has their own best interest at heart and is hurting the periphery. I don't think you can be in favour of a strong unified UK and try to weaken European integration at the same time. The UK is an exemple of democracy. Look at the last election, most head of the movement that did wrong just left the momvent, taking responsability for the loss. It's pretty impossible to compare it to the EU, which is not a democratic institution. Just take it into consideration : Scotland is in the UK since way more than any european countries, and they can leave after just a vote, while there are no possible way to permit a country from leaving the euro.
I'm not sure that is the kind of democracy I want. Breaking up a country that has hundreds of years of common history or more just because you're currently unhappy maybe isn't the smartest decision. You can vote yourself out really quickly but you're not going to get back in again that fast.
And about politicians leaving, on the one hand people always ask for more honesty in politics,but if you want that you can't just chop everybody's head off. I'd rather see some politician correct their mistakes than to swap them out every two years.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On May 10 2015 04:38 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 04:35 KelsierSC wrote:On May 10 2015 04:33 WhiteDog wrote:On May 10 2015 04:27 Nyxisto wrote:
I think it's a little weird that the UK on a European level stresses the importance of sovereignty this much while it is the exact same thing that has nearly driven Scotland out of their own Union, with the exact same argument, namely that the larger structure only has their own best interest at heart and is hurting the periphery. I don't think you can be in favour of a strong unified UK and try to weaken European integration at the same time. The UK is an exemple of democracy. Look at the last election, most head of the movement that did wrong just left the momvent, taking responsability for the loss. It's pretty impossible to compare it to the EU, which is not a democratic institution. Just take it into consideration : Scotland is in the UK since way more than any european countries, and they can leave after just a vote, while there are no possible way to permit a country from leaving the euro. ugh what? You think you can change europe from the inside ? You think the citizen of england believe that they can influence the evolution of europe through their vote ?
well the link between the United Kingdom and Brussels was a major discussion point during the election campaign so yes.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On May 10 2015 04:41 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 04:33 WhiteDog wrote:On May 10 2015 04:27 Nyxisto wrote:
I think it's a little weird that the UK on a European level stresses the importance of sovereignty this much while it is the exact same thing that has nearly driven Scotland out of their own Union, with the exact same argument, namely that the larger structure only has their own best interest at heart and is hurting the periphery. I don't think you can be in favour of a strong unified UK and try to weaken European integration at the same time. The UK is an exemple of democracy. Look at the last election, most head of the movement that did wrong just left the momvent, taking responsability for the loss. It's pretty impossible to compare it to the EU, which is not a democratic institution. Just take it into consideration : Scotland is in the UK since way more than any european countries, and they can leave after just a vote, while there are no possible way to permit a country from leaving the euro. I'm not sure that is the kind of democracy I want. Breaking up a country that has hundreds of years of common history or more just because you're currently unhappy maybe isn't the smartest decision. You can vote yourself out really quickly but you're not going to get back in again that fast. And about politicians leaving, on the one hand people always ask for more honesty in politics,but if you want that you can't just chop everybody's head off. I'd rather see some politician correct their mistakes than to swap them out every two years.
This is the fault of the press.
Honestly the media coverage of this whole election has been disgusting to watch , read and listen to.
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On May 10 2015 04:41 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 04:33 WhiteDog wrote:On May 10 2015 04:27 Nyxisto wrote:
I think it's a little weird that the UK on a European level stresses the importance of sovereignty this much while it is the exact same thing that has nearly driven Scotland out of their own Union, with the exact same argument, namely that the larger structure only has their own best interest at heart and is hurting the periphery. I don't think you can be in favour of a strong unified UK and try to weaken European integration at the same time. The UK is an exemple of democracy. Look at the last election, most head of the movement that did wrong just left the momvent, taking responsability for the loss. It's pretty impossible to compare it to the EU, which is not a democratic institution. Just take it into consideration : Scotland is in the UK since way more than any european countries, and they can leave after just a vote, while there are no possible way to permit a country from leaving the euro. I'm not sure that is the kind of democracy I want. Breaking up a country that has hundreds of years of common history or more just because you're currently unhappy maybe isn't the smartest decision. You can vote yourself out really quickly but you're not going to get back in again that fast. And about politicians leaving, on the one hand people always ask for more honesty in politics,but if you want that you can't just chop everybody's head off. I'd rather see some politician correct their mistakes than to swap them out every two years.
What you'd rather do or desire is irrelevant to the point. The fact is, most european countries are plagued with politician that never leave office despite various blunder - current France is a good exemple of that, with a president having lost all elections since his own and having 19 % of support in all polls.
The Europe is the most hated institution of europe, and still governing like everything is okay. Heck more than half of the deputee that France sent to europe are for the end of europe lol.
On May 10 2015 04:42 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 04:38 WhiteDog wrote:On May 10 2015 04:35 KelsierSC wrote:On May 10 2015 04:33 WhiteDog wrote:On May 10 2015 04:27 Nyxisto wrote:
I think it's a little weird that the UK on a European level stresses the importance of sovereignty this much while it is the exact same thing that has nearly driven Scotland out of their own Union, with the exact same argument, namely that the larger structure only has their own best interest at heart and is hurting the periphery. I don't think you can be in favour of a strong unified UK and try to weaken European integration at the same time. The UK is an exemple of democracy. Look at the last election, most head of the movement that did wrong just left the momvent, taking responsability for the loss. It's pretty impossible to compare it to the EU, which is not a democratic institution. Just take it into consideration : Scotland is in the UK since way more than any european countries, and they can leave after just a vote, while there are no possible way to permit a country from leaving the euro. ugh what? You think you can change europe from the inside ? You think the citizen of england believe that they can influence the evolution of europe through their vote ? well the link between the United Kingdom and Brussels was a major discussion point during the election campaign so yes.
People who believe that are naïve.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On May 10 2015 04:44 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 04:41 Nyxisto wrote:On May 10 2015 04:33 WhiteDog wrote:On May 10 2015 04:27 Nyxisto wrote:
I think it's a little weird that the UK on a European level stresses the importance of sovereignty this much while it is the exact same thing that has nearly driven Scotland out of their own Union, with the exact same argument, namely that the larger structure only has their own best interest at heart and is hurting the periphery. I don't think you can be in favour of a strong unified UK and try to weaken European integration at the same time. The UK is an exemple of democracy. Look at the last election, most head of the movement that did wrong just left the momvent, taking responsability for the loss. It's pretty impossible to compare it to the EU, which is not a democratic institution. Just take it into consideration : Scotland is in the UK since way more than any european countries, and they can leave after just a vote, while there are no possible way to permit a country from leaving the euro. I'm not sure that is the kind of democracy I want. Breaking up a country that has hundreds of years of common history or more just because you're currently unhappy maybe isn't the smartest decision. You can vote yourself out really quickly but you're not going to get back in again that fast. And about politicians leaving, on the one hand people always ask for more honesty in politics,but if you want that you can't just chop everybody's head off. I'd rather see some politician correct their mistakes than to swap them out every two years. What you'd rather do or desire is irrelevant to the point. The fact is, most european countries are plagued with politician that never leave office despite various blunder - current France is a good exemple of that, with a president having lost all elections since his own and having 19 % of support in all polls. The Europe is the most hated institution of europe, and still governing like everything is okay. Heck more than half of the deputee that France sent to europe are for the end of europe lol. Show nested quote +On May 10 2015 04:42 KelsierSC wrote:On May 10 2015 04:38 WhiteDog wrote:On May 10 2015 04:35 KelsierSC wrote:On May 10 2015 04:33 WhiteDog wrote:On May 10 2015 04:27 Nyxisto wrote:
I think it's a little weird that the UK on a European level stresses the importance of sovereignty this much while it is the exact same thing that has nearly driven Scotland out of their own Union, with the exact same argument, namely that the larger structure only has their own best interest at heart and is hurting the periphery. I don't think you can be in favour of a strong unified UK and try to weaken European integration at the same time. The UK is an exemple of democracy. Look at the last election, most head of the movement that did wrong just left the momvent, taking responsability for the loss. It's pretty impossible to compare it to the EU, which is not a democratic institution. Just take it into consideration : Scotland is in the UK since way more than any european countries, and they can leave after just a vote, while there are no possible way to permit a country from leaving the euro. ugh what? You think you can change europe from the inside ? You think the citizen of england believe that they can influence the evolution of europe through their vote ? well the link between the United Kingdom and Brussels was a major discussion point during the election campaign so yes. People who believe that are naïve.
well we will see what happens over the next few years.
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EPT
