UK Politics Mega-thread - Page 499

On March 22 2019 21:44 Longshank wrote:
@Xophy I tip my tinfoil ha to you good Sir!

I'm not versed enough in the procedings of the Parliament to try to explain the technicalities but it's in the amendment by Hilary Benn
+ Show Spoiler +
One way frequently suggested has been to force MPs to take a stand on what they can accept, not what they prefer by a series of indicative votes. This is something May should have done in January but one of the things she's repeatedly refused to do. If I was to wager a guess it would be that we will end up with Mays deal vs. Customs Union 2.0. And as pointed out above me, leaders of the EU has stated many times that this deal is the only deal that can be negotiated around May's red lines. Were the red lines to change, the EU would "respond favourably" to quote Barnier. Tusk said yesterday that all options would be on the table in case of a longer extension.

On March 22 2019 21:56 Longshank wrote:


Do you think time is the factor that divides the three leave factions? They would never agree, no matter the time frame. The problem is that 'Leave' was never defined before the referendum so all three(or more) factions are equally valid.

On March 22 2019 22:25 pmh wrote:



The referendum was very wel defined imo. How simple can it be? Leave the Eu or stay in the EU.
It seems pretty clear to me. Leave eu is get out of all agreements and treatys they are in because of the eu,no longer forced to adhere eu laws and so on. I don't think there was much misunderstanding about what to vote for. In fact it could not have been more obvious.
Its the politics afterwards that made it into a big mess because the result of the referendum was not expected.


https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Yes I have seen this,its not the first petition either. I don't know what they want to achieve with this,other then use it as an argument to cancel the brexit or maybe to poll public opinion.

On March 22 2019 22:09 Gorsameth wrote:
Forcing May to try and get the Norway model is an option, but I don't see it actually passed through Parliament, wasn't the response to Corbyn's letter, which basically was advocating for this, pretty bad? Didn't a bunch of people in his own party jump forward saying "we don't want this"?
The problem with a Norway model is that you might aswell not leave at that point. Your giving up your vote in EU proceedings for very little.
(and that is assuming you can get the Norway model, there have been voices from the group of countries that make up this version that don't want the UK to join them since they make decisions as a collective and the UK has different priorities).

On March 22 2019 17:53 Jockmcplop wrote:
Its amazing to me that something that began as a misguided outpouring of national pride spitting in the face of reality has become a neverending series of humiliations.
The UK is now the world news equivalent of a tetanus dog with no legs being nursed back to health by a monkey that you see at the end of the daily news to try and make people remember that life can be ridiculous as well as terrifying.

How people can take Theresa May's side in this is truly baffling beyond words.
She had 90 minutes with EU leaders yesterday during which she apparently didn't know the answers to any of the questions they asked her.
Ask anyone in the UK and they will tell you that she's been that way since she became PM. She won't answer a single question unless she can answer it with a predetermined catchphrase that means nothing, and at a time when we need a leader to bring people together she doesn't have the power to govern her own front bench let alone convince the whole of parliament to agree to something they don't want.
She's a political frankenstein's monster, the result of political science gone totally down the wrong alley for years. Robotic, charmless, boring, incompetent and shit. Only capable of repeating a 3 word mantra which changes every few months. Will of the people, strong and stable, brexit means brexit FUCKING DO SOMETHING May stop this catchphrase bullshit it doesn't help you or anyone.
If she hadn't called a snap election (which she promised not to and then did anyway) we wouldn't be in this mess now and Brexit could've worked.

Resign. Preferably 2 years ago.

Rant over.

On March 22 2019 23:39 Jockmcplop wrote:
I've just seen this on twitter from a Yougov poll.
Looks like the government is representing the will of the people by doing nothing and refusing all options.

On March 22 2019 22:04 Gorsameth wrote:
The problem with 'get a deal, then have a referendum' is that your assuming the EU is willing to negotiate before art 50 is invoked.
The EU has every reason not to do this, not least of which that every other nation that ever considered if it wouldn't be better off alone would jump at the chance of doing the same. The EU would spend the rest of its existence negotiating with current members about what deal those members would get if they leave. Its completely unworkable.

Btw, is it a given that the UK can somehow remain in the customs union and single market but reserve the right to block EU regulations and movement of workers? I thought that was impossible from the EU side.

On March 23 2019 17:45 xM(Z wrote:
dudes, the point was, if you remember from couple years ago, for EU to fail/fall/disband/regress to its starting block.
there were a bunch of talk about -exits back then, from Grexit to Itaexit &co, then it was the deal breaking/failing between the lefties and the righties in the European Parliament making the backstage consensus in passing laws, well, to put it likely, more contentious.
in essence, the anglo-saxons wanted to neuter the germans. some aspects of that struggle are still going on but per ensemble, they' fucked it.

also, i find everyone's basic premise/expectancy that a deal should start from 'what is the best for <X>side' to be naive at best. fucking your enemy more than you fuck yourself it's a win in most scenarios.

On March 23 2019 17:45 xM(Z wrote:
dudes, the point was, if you remember from couple years ago, for EU to fail/fall/disband/regress to its starting block.
there were a bunch of talk about -exits back then, from Grexit to Itaexit &co, then it was the deal breaking/failing between the lefties and the righties in the European Parliament making the backstage consensus in passing laws, well, to put it likely, more contentious.
in essence, the anglo-saxons wanted to neuter the germans. some aspects of that struggle are still going on but per ensemble, they' fucked it.

also, i find everyone's basic premise/expectancy that a deal should start from 'what is the best for <X>side' to be naive at best. fucking your enemy more than you fuck yourself it's a win in most scenarios.

On March 23 2019 20:03 xM(Z wrote:
no it's not. why wouldn't germans want the UK?. you know, just as they wanted the rest of Europe/N-Africa/Middle-East/Causasus region when they expanded the union.
how is an UK subservient to EU not a win for EU?.

But this year, far from the headlines, Germany and two of its European allies, the Czech Republic and Romania, quietly took a radical step down a path toward something that looks like an EU army while avoiding the messy politics associated with it: They announced the integration of their armed forces.

Romania’s entire military won’t join the Bundeswehr, nor will the Czech armed forces become a mere German subdivision. But in the next several months each country will integrate one brigade into the German armed forces: Romania’s 81st Mechanized Brigade will join the Bundeswehr’s Rapid Response Forces Division, while the Czech 4th Rapid Deployment Brigade, which has served in Afghanistan and Kosovo and is considered the Czech Army’s spearhead force, will become part of the Germans’ 10th Armored Division. In doing so, they’ll follow in the footsteps of two Dutch brigades, one of which has already joined the Bundeswehr’s Rapid Response Forces Division and another that has been integrated into the Bundeswehr’s 1st Armored Division. According to Carlo Masala, a professor of international politics at the University of the Bundeswehr in Munich, “The German government is showing that it’s willing to proceed with European military integration” — even if others on the continent aren’t yet.