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On April 18 2017 21:43 Acrofales wrote:
Are British people generally satisfied with May? I know she hasn't had much time, but she honestly doesn't seem that good a leader, and barely in control of her own party. So despite Corbyn being a trainwreck, couldn't 2 months of campaigning on a campaign of "as soft a Brexit as possible" from Labor actually squeak out a victory?
She has the highest satisfaction rating of any politician in the UK.
And changes in Scotland say it all as far as Labour is concerned.
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
didnt think tory support would go up in scotland, i guess independence really isnt as popular as the sturgeon makes it out to be
i think May as well as chancellor Hammond are both seen as a safe pair of hands
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Poor Scottish Labour Party. Cannibalized by the SNP, and then the Tories get the leftovers.
The key to Corbyn not being destroyed is to spend the next two months never shutting up about the NHS. If he can keep that in the news, maybe Labour won't be annihilated.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
NHS is a big thing but i think its going to get swept under the carpet alot here. I mean what can Labour really battle with apart from "well we wont do what Conservatives are going to do, but have not said what they are going to do, but we wont do it" kinda argument. He can't say he will use the Brexit money we saving to pump back into it as we found out there isn't any xD
It's going to be;
Conservative/UKIP - Vote for us for a complete and satisfactory Brexit
Lib Dem - Vote for us for a soft Brexit
Labour - Vote for us, we will be the best of all the options and NHS something something oh and we will somehow fund free school meals for every child in the country too
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
greens - we'll have 5 MPs for 4 seats working 4 day weeks and jobsharing
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Ignorant, and often high, Amerifat here. Can someone more enlightened explain what is going on? Did she just basically call to get herself re-elected in the middle of a term? Or am I way off the mark?
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On April 18 2017 22:39 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Ignorant, and often high, Amerifat here. Can someone more enlightened explain what is going on? Did she just basically call to get herself re-elected in the middle of a term? Or am I way off the mark?
She did it to get more of her party in seats in the government so her bills and legislation go through.
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Yes. If enough MPs (two thirds) agree there will be an election, and the two biggest parties seem to want it to happen. Corbyn, the Labour leader, supports it despite the fact that it will be the end of his hard left Labour movement for probably 15-20 years, so it looks like it will happen.
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On April 18 2017 22:41 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 22:39 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Ignorant, and often high, Amerifat here. Can someone more enlightened explain what is going on? Did she just basically call to get herself re-elected in the middle of a term? Or am I way off the mark? She did it to get more of her party in seats in the government so her bills and legislation go through.
Yeah, but the question is why can she just do that. Usually you have regular elections, and not the currently ruling party calling for elections whenever they want to.
I am a bit hazy on this, too, but i know that the british system is kind of weird in that regard. I don't think they have regular elections by law, they have them out of a social contract or something. I think elections are held whenever the queen or parliament calls for them, but a british person can probably explain this more clearly and exactly.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
She calls for a poll in the government at question time tomorrow. If majority agree to it which it will happen as Jock said the two biggest parties have already said they want it, it will happen. Or the other time a general election can happen is when a no confidence vote in the government is triggered and passed. Silly really i agree but it makes sense to do so for the current government to basically bully its way to getting what it wants.
In terms of the logistics, getting an early election under the Fixed-Term Parliaments Act passed in 2011 involves two-thirds of all MPs - 434 out of 650 - voting for it.
Or a vote of no confidence, although this would be considered a nuclear option.
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On April 18 2017 22:43 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 22:41 Pandemona wrote:On April 18 2017 22:39 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Ignorant, and often high, Amerifat here. Can someone more enlightened explain what is going on? Did she just basically call to get herself re-elected in the middle of a term? Or am I way off the mark? She did it to get more of her party in seats in the government so her bills and legislation go through. Yeah, but the question is why can she just do that. Usually you have regular elections, and not the currently ruling party calling for elections whenever they want to. I am a bit hazy on this, too, but i know that the british system is kind of weird in that regard. I don't think they have regular elections by law, they have them out of a social contract or something. I think elections are held whenever the queen or parliament calls for them, but a british person can probably explain this more clearly and exactly.
That's an excellent question also. I would love an explanation of how this works.
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Let me salute the prophetic vision of TL, having this thread separately from the EU politics thread right from the start.
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On April 18 2017 22:43 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 22:41 Pandemona wrote:On April 18 2017 22:39 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Ignorant, and often high, Amerifat here. Can someone more enlightened explain what is going on? Did she just basically call to get herself re-elected in the middle of a term? Or am I way off the mark? She did it to get more of her party in seats in the government so her bills and legislation go through. Yeah, but the question is why can she just do that. Usually you have regular elections, and not the currently ruling party calling for elections whenever they want to. I am a bit hazy on this, too, but i know that the british system is kind of weird in that regard. I don't think they have regular elections by law, they have them out of a social contract or something. I think elections are held whenever the queen or parliament calls for them, but a british person can probably explain this more clearly and exactly.
that's why she needs the support of 66% of the house of commons to do so (this rule was actually brought in by the Fixed Term Parliaments Act 2011). previously, the prime minister just had to get permission from the monarch. technically it is the monarch that dissolves parliament, but in reality over the past two centuries, the prime minister is the one who decides. the parliament act of 1911 set the term of parliament to be no more than 5 years
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On April 18 2017 22:49 Ayaz2810 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 22:43 Simberto wrote:On April 18 2017 22:41 Pandemona wrote:On April 18 2017 22:39 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Ignorant, and often high, Amerifat here. Can someone more enlightened explain what is going on? Did she just basically call to get herself re-elected in the middle of a term? Or am I way off the mark? She did it to get more of her party in seats in the government so her bills and legislation go through. Yeah, but the question is why can she just do that. Usually you have regular elections, and not the currently ruling party calling for elections whenever they want to. I am a bit hazy on this, too, but i know that the british system is kind of weird in that regard. I don't think they have regular elections by law, they have them out of a social contract or something. I think elections are held whenever the queen or parliament calls for them, but a british person can probably explain this more clearly and exactly. That's an excellent question also. I would love an explanation of how this works.
Its a legacy of old Monarchical powers to dismiss parliament, before the coalition government in 2010 and the fixed term parliaments act that they introduced the PM could go to the Queen and advise (instruct) her to dissolve parliament and call a General Election at any time they wished. This was used many times in recent history to give the government an advantage with the timing, they had up to 5 years to call an election but could do it at any time in that 5 years.
The fixed term Parliaments act made it so there had to be a vote of no confidence in the government or 66% of MPs had to agree to call an election (although this is debated as 50% could just abolish the act.)
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United States43510 Posts
Corbyn cannot survive an electoral massacre. Do Labour have anyone standing ready to follow him?
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United States43510 Posts
On April 18 2017 22:39 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Ignorant, and often high, Amerifat here. Can someone more enlightened explain what is going on? Did she just basically call to get herself re-elected in the middle of a term? Or am I way off the mark?
We don't have a constitution. It's only very recently that we passed a law that says we have to call elections at all (like 5 years ago). We have elections because we know we ought to and we'd be pretty upset if they stopped having elections without a very good reason so traditionally we'd have one every four or five years.
The power to dissolve Parliament is part of what is called the Queen's Royal Prerogative. This is a set of powers that belong to the person of the monarch and are wielded on her behalf by the Prime Minister, not by Parliament (unless the tradition changes). Theresa May is the PM and can therefore invoke the power of the Queen to dismiss Parliament and hold an election to elect a new Parliament.
The power to pick the timing of the next election is obviously pretty fucking handy but traditionally there are times during which the PM is somewhat obligated to do it. If the government suffers a defeat on a manifesto pledge, a core policy that was part of their platform for becoming elected, then the government itself is considered to be discredited and incapable of ruling. Therefore they go back to the people and ask for either a stronger majority or for someone else to take over. An example of this in America would have been Trump taking the Obamacare repeal to a vote and losing the vote. If that happened in a Parliamentary system then the entire government would fall. A vote of no confidence also forces an election. A vote of no confidence is just when Parliament collectively vote that they do not have confidence in the government to rule. A government without the confidence of the house is no government but it's unlikely any other government could be formed because the makeup of the house wouldn't have changed significantly so they go to the people and either return with a strengthened majority or face defeat.
edit: I'm told this changed and now Parliament need to sign off on it
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On April 18 2017 23:33 KwarK wrote:
Corbyn cannot survive an electoral massacre. Do Labour have anyone standing ready to follow him?
well they just had a leadership contest, presumably some of those candidates will stand again, maybe even owen smith who ended up being the "finalist" but who still lost to corbyn
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On April 18 2017 23:33 KwarK wrote:
Corbyn cannot survive an electoral massacre. Do Labour have anyone standing ready to follow him?
Tom Watson or Hilary Benn seem to be the best candidates off the top of my head. Neither stood last time but I think it was clear that the party was just going to vote Corbyn in again so that may have been a tactical decision. Maybe David Miliband could return. What I am concerned about is the far left, who still dominate the party membership, voting for Diane Abbott. That would be catastrophic.
On the other hand I think the time is near for new parties. After Brexit, though, please.
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
On April 18 2017 23:36 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2017 22:39 Ayaz2810 wrote:
Ignorant, and often high, Amerifat here. Can someone more enlightened explain what is going on? Did she just basically call to get herself re-elected in the middle of a term? Or am I way off the mark? We don't have a constitution. It's only very recently that we passed a law that says we have to call elections at all (like 5 years ago). We have elections because we know we ought to and we'd be pretty upset if they stopped having elections without a very good reason so traditionally we'd have one every four or five years. The power to dissolve Parliament is part of what is called the Queen's Royal Prerogative. This is a set of powers that belong to the person of the monarch and are wielded on her behalf by the Prime Minister, not by Parliament (unless the tradition changes). Theresa May is the PM and can therefore invoke the power of the Queen to dismiss Parliament and hold an election to elect a new Parliament. The power to pick the timing of the next election is obviously pretty fucking handy but traditionally there are times during which the PM is somewhat obligated to do it. If the government suffers a defeat on a manifesto pledge, a core policy that was part of their platform for becoming elected, then the government itself is considered to be discredited and incapable of ruling. Therefore they go back to the people and ask for either a stronger majority or for someone else to take over. An example of this in America would have been Trump taking the Obamacare repeal to a vote and losing the vote. If that happened in a Parliamentary system then the entire government would fall. A vote of no confidence also forces an election. A vote of no confidence is just when Parliament collectively vote that they do not have confidence in the government to rule. A government without the confidence of the house is no government but it's unlikely any other government could be formed because the makeup of the house wouldn't have changed significantly so they go to the people and either return with a strengthened majority or face defeat. edit: I'm told this changed and now Parliament need to sign off on it
The Parliament Act 1911 set out the 5 year lifetime of parliament, not 5 years between a general election although the two effectively go hand in hand. So it's true the first piece of legislation to actually enforce calling an election was the Fixed-term parliaments act of 2011. The real purpose of that act was not to have the whole calling an election enshrined in law, but was to stop PMs calling tactical elections at times that suit them. With that act, there are now two ways an early election can be called - either a vote of no confidence in the government, or a two thirds majority of the commons vote for it
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