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On October 07 2025 19:20 Uldridge wrote:
That's an interesting angle: when does the amalgamation of subcultures become a culture? Is that even a thing?
Is there a single unifying French or Italian culture? I'd like to say there is. But France is so big and has so many different ways of life that it kind of breaks down almost immediately when you start zooming in.
So, culture is an illusion? A mirage to be used as a spark to start potentially existential problems like wars? It's entirely possible. However, there are so many people hanging their hats on the "cultural identity of my country/roots/race" that it's very difficult to have any discussion talking about the deconstruction of this dogma. People will look at anything to latch on to, so is that what it is then? A practice that gives solace for a group of people instead of individual existential dread? Basically group therapy for the human condition. Yes culture is an artificial construct.
Does French culture exist? yes, its the current prevailing culture in France. But that itself a something that has formed over centuries by the people, their way of life and the interactions they had with those around them. Culture changes, its not a static thing. French culture today is not the same as French culture from 1792 and that is different from the Franks tribes 500 years before that.
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On October 07 2025 19:38 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
The problem is bringing people with such backward values in, in such numbers that it moves the needle.
See the recent post by the NHS last week claiming value in first cousin marriages.Children of such marriages are far more likely to have disabilities putting extra strain on health and welfare services.First cousin marriages should be banned for this reason, not celebrated or treated as normal. To pre-empt a long discussion about this. Is the number of first cousin children being born in the UK actually an issue?
Like is it happening in increasing and worrying numbers? Or is this a thing that doesn't actually exist and its only being brought up to have a fight over and bash foreigners?
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On October 07 2025 19:46 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2025 19:20 Uldridge wrote:
That's an interesting angle: when does the amalgamation of subcultures become a culture? Is that even a thing?
Is there a single unifying French or Italian culture? I'd like to say there is. But France is so big and has so many different ways of life that it kind of breaks down almost immediately when you start zooming in.
So, culture is an illusion? A mirage to be used as a spark to start potentially existential problems like wars? It's entirely possible. However, there are so many people hanging their hats on the "cultural identity of my country/roots/race" that it's very difficult to have any discussion talking about the deconstruction of this dogma. People will look at anything to latch on to, so is that what it is then? A practice that gives solace for a group of people instead of individual existential dread? Basically group therapy for the human condition. Yes culture is an artificial construct. Does French culture exist? yes, its the current prevailing culture in France. But that itself a something that has formed over centuries by the people, their way of life and the interactions they had with those around them. Culture changes, its not a static thing. French culture today is not the same as French culture from 1792 and that is different from the Franks tribes 500 years before that.
I assume that's not true everywhere but specifically french culture, to the extent that it exists and means something relevant, is mainly the collection of things that were used to crush the regional cultures of France and force them to learn a common language.
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On October 07 2025 19:52 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2025 19:38 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
The problem is bringing people with such backward values in, in such numbers that it moves the needle.
See the recent post by the NHS last week claiming value in first cousin marriages.Children of such marriages are far more likely to have disabilities putting extra strain on health and welfare services.First cousin marriages should be banned for this reason, not celebrated or treated as normal. To pre-empt a long discussion about this. Is the number of first cousin children being born in the UK actually an issue? Like is it happening in increasing and worrying numbers? Or is this a thing that doesn't actually exist and its only being brought up to have a fight over and bash foreigners?
It's known to occur within certain communities at what I would consider to be worrying numbers, but the numbers within those communities appear to be falling. Here are some numbers taken from this BBC article on the subject:
By the 20th century the proportion of marriages between cousins [in the general population] had declined to about 1%. But it remains a relatively common practice among some South Asian minorities. In three inner-city Bradford wards, almost half (46%) of mothers from the Pakistani community were married to a first or second cousin, according to the most recent Born in Bradford data published two years ago. [But] the practice is in decline. The share of new mothers from across the Born in Bradford study who were first cousins with the father of their baby fell from 39% in the late 2000s to 27% in the late 2010s.
EDIT:
I'm personally in favour of a ban because I find the concept of first cousin marriage morally repugnant.
Not only are children born from such marriages at higher risk of inherited medical conditions, they also have worse childhood development outcomes in general. Again quoting the BBC article:
[The study] found that even after factors like poverty were controlled for, a child of first cousins in Bradford had an 11% probability of being diagnosed with a speech and language problem, versus 7% for children whose parents are not related.
They also found a child of first cousins has a 54% chance of reaching a "good stage of development" (a government assessment given to all five year-olds in England), versus 64% for children whose parents are not related.
We get further insight into their poorer health through the number of visits to the GP. Children of first cousins have a third more primary care appointments than children whose parents are not related - an average of four instead of three a year.
What is notable is that even once you account for the children in that group who already have a diagnosed recessive disorder, the figures suggest consanguinity may be affecting even those children who don't have a diagnosable recessive disorder.
But despite being in favour of a ban, it's important for me to point out that we're still only talking about 1% of all marriages in the country, of which only some is due to immigrant communities. Anybody who wants to frame this issue as "immigrants killing the NHS" or whatever is being ignorant of the statistics.
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Looks like Starmer is about to eat shit in Gorton & Denton based on the reporting I'm seeing on Bluesky
https://themeteor.org/2026/02/26/the-gorton-and-denton-by-election-is-a-test-of-labours-traditional-voter-base/
Gorton and Denton goes to the polls today, 26 February 2026, in the second vote ever for the new constituency. In any other time it’d be a shoo-in for Labour, but we certainly live in interesting times now. Let’s take a look at the evolution of the constituency and consider what the future holds.
The new Gorton and Denton constituency was formed in July 2024 following a boundary review, and Andrew Gwynne, the previous MP for the old Denton and Reddish seat, won an unsurprising majority for Labour with 50.8% of the vote.
Since then, a lot has changed. Gwynne was caught up in a scandal over unsavoury comments in a Labour WhatsApp group, and was suspended from the party in February 2025. He sat as an independent until his resignation as an MP last month.
Alongside the misfortunes of Gwynne, and the Labour Party in general, Reform and the Greens have been on the rise. For Reform, this has been driven by increased mainstream media attention on Reform UK and their fellow right-wing travellers.
Greens, Reform and Labour all suggest Labour came third, + there's some whining by Nigel and his ghouls that there was family voting, which is not something that you pull out when you're confident. Labour sources are also leaking that "Early signs at the count indicate the Greens have been able to turn out support in a way they wouldn't be able to replicate at a General Election", which I can translate from politician to english it goes a bit like "Waaaah cooooope waaaahhhhhh"
So anyway, possibly to quite likely good news, definitive results will drop in a few hours. Not many good news around. I really like Polanski he's great at this.
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Northern Ireland26688 Posts
On February 27 2026 10:54 Nebuchad wrote:Looks like Starmer is about to eat shit in Gorton & Denton based on the reporting I'm seeing on Bluesky https://themeteor.org/2026/02/26/the-gorton-and-denton-by-election-is-a-test-of-labours-traditional-voter-base/Show nested quote +
Gorton and Denton goes to the polls today, 26 February 2026, in the second vote ever for the new constituency. In any other time it’d be a shoo-in for Labour, but we certainly live in interesting times now. Let’s take a look at the evolution of the constituency and consider what the future holds.
The new Gorton and Denton constituency was formed in July 2024 following a boundary review, and Andrew Gwynne, the previous MP for the old Denton and Reddish seat, won an unsurprising majority for Labour with 50.8% of the vote.
Since then, a lot has changed. Gwynne was caught up in a scandal over unsavoury comments in a Labour WhatsApp group, and was suspended from the party in February 2025. He sat as an independent until his resignation as an MP last month.
Alongside the misfortunes of Gwynne, and the Labour Party in general, Reform and the Greens have been on the rise. For Reform, this has been driven by increased mainstream media attention on Reform UK and their fellow right-wing travellers.
Greens, Reform and Labour all suggest Labour came third, + there's some whining by Nigel and his ghouls that there was family voting, which is not something that you pull out when you're confident. Labour sources are also leaking that "Early signs at the count indicate the Greens have been able to turn out support in a way they wouldn't be able to replicate at a General Election", which I can translate from politician to english it goes a bit like "Waaaah cooooope waaaahhhhhh" So anyway, possibly to quite likely good news, definitive results will drop in a few hours. Not many good news around. I really like Polanski he's great at this.
Labour have done a lot wrong, and simultaneously not a massive amount wrong, but it’s felt since maybe 6 months in that they’re doomed. Something that took what, a decade + for the Tories to feel seems to have set in rapidly. I (almost) feel bad for them. Tacking centrally, sensible, somewhat considered government, various things people say they like in polls but don’t seem to enjoy in actuality.
To clarify I don’t like this incarnation of Labour given my politics, I’m putting my centrist hat on here. It must be maddening for Labour to seemingly be unable to hold that ground, given how bulletproof seemingly the Tories were for a long period. Perhaps, hopefully not, it’s just an indication that our political centre has shifted way right.
Labour might have a point re the Greens here, even if there’s a hint of sour grapes. They do seem to have some momentum under the new leader so interested to see where it goes. I’m not some pollster wizard and we’re still a while out, I guess worst case scenario for me is they nick enough off Labour to let Reform in, perhaps best case they become needed as part of some coalition government
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The Greens won.
Here come the excuses/conspiracy theories.
Hannah Spencer is actually pretty impressive, her campaign hit all the right notes. It was positive, called for both unity and pushing an agenda that suits her constituents about 'working hard all our lives to line the pockets of billionaires, and getting nothing out of it.'
Gorton's population will feel that very close to their hearts right now.
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Northern Ireland26688 Posts
On February 27 2026 14:27 Jockmcplop wrote:
The Greens won.
Here come the excuses/conspiracy theories.
Hannah Spencer is actually pretty impressive, her campaign hit all the right notes. It was positive, called for both unity and pushing an agenda that suits her constituents about 'working hard all our lives to line the pockets of billionaires, and getting nothing out of it.'
Gorton's population will feel that very close to their hearts right now.
Funny how that works eh? Makes things almost more frustrating for me. The Greens are doing the right things in many ways, to my sensibilities anyway but realistically ain’t carrying a general. Labour obviously can win generals, but seem set to consistently do many of the wrong things.
To extend my radiant positivity out yet further, I do wonder if this is perhaps a result to be somewhat wary of. From some of what I’ve read as demographics go, rather fertile potential ground for the Greens for various reasons, and somewhat the inverse for Reform.
To do as well as they did, what’s that going to look like when they’re contesting battlegrounds that suit them better?
Added to this, while fucking hilarious that the Conservatives lost their deposit and being in calamitous shape, there’s not going to be much splitting of the right vote and siphoning away from Reform if the Tories perform even vaguely close to this dismally when we go across the nation
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I'm sure I know less about UK politics than you do but this analysis that you're reading seems like post-defeat analysis, when I first looked into this like a month ago nobody was saying that this was an especially good place for the Greens, three days ago Keir went there and explained how you had to vote Labour because it was the only way to beat Reform. Now the Greens win and suddenly we all knew that they could win there but they can't win in most places... it's a bit silly to me. Probably in most places where the Greens can't win, Labour can't win either. They have the same "issues" attached to them.
I think the reason why the Conservatives could hold in the middle for 10 years and Labour can't isn't because suddenly the country is very rightwing like you're fearing, I think it's because they were elected to not be in the middle. You had like 10 years of conservative governance in the middle, people voted against it (it wasn't close as I recall), then Keir came in and immediately went back to doing the thing that people who just got ejected were doing? Obviously that isn't sustainable. Notice that Labour lost to people who are to their left, not to their right. If anything that should signal that the strategical choice of going for centrism in this moment was very, very bad. I'll also add that to me it's a little charitable to call what Keir was doing centrism, to me he was going for Reform-lite in the same way that Democrats in the US or Emmanuel in France validate all of the far right's worldview and talking points, but then tell us that we have to vote for them because they're the only alternative...
Both Keir and Emmanuel are doing it quite badly I might add. When you do this strategy you need the left locked in, otherwise when you call yourself the only alternative, people can see that you're full of shit. You even run the risk of promoting the actual left as the only alternative and getting abandoned in third place, as happened here. You need the far right to be elected first and then you lock the opposition. If you spend the majority of your time fighting the left right now, before the far right has even won, you just look like what you are, which is a force that works toward electing the far right (not because you like them necessarily, but because you want them vs you to be the main political opposition of the country); people might not buy you as the opposition party in the same way that they buy the Democrats.
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On February 27 2026 19:15 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2026 14:27 Jockmcplop wrote:
The Greens won.
Here come the excuses/conspiracy theories.
Hannah Spencer is actually pretty impressive, her campaign hit all the right notes. It was positive, called for both unity and pushing an agenda that suits her constituents about 'working hard all our lives to line the pockets of billionaires, and getting nothing out of it.'
Gorton's population will feel that very close to their hearts right now. Funny how that works eh? Makes things almost more frustrating for me. The Greens are doing the right things in many ways, to my sensibilities anyway but realistically ain’t carrying a general. Labour obviously can win generals, but seem set to consistently do many of the wrong things. To extend my radiant positivity out yet further, I do wonder if this is perhaps a result to be somewhat wary of. From some of what I’ve read as demographics go, rather fertile potential ground for the Greens for various reasons, and somewhat the inverse for Reform. To do as well as they did, what’s that going to look like when they’re contesting battlegrounds that suit them better? Added to this, while fucking hilarious that the Conservatives lost their deposit and being in calamitous shape, there’s not going to be much splitting of the right vote and siphoning away from Reform if the Tories perform even vaguely close to this dismally when we go across the nation
Now I lived in Manchester for 10 years and spent alot of time in this constituency and the demographics probably aren't what you think they are.
Gorton is mainly poor British folk, Denton is more wealthy, while longsight and Levenshulme are both quite heavily populated with middle Eastern people or those with that background.
So there is some fertile ground for the Greens but really Labour have completely given this seat away by barring Burnham from running.
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United States43934 Posts
British voters read the Daily Mail and manufactured anti Labour bullshit. Boris will force their grandma to die alone then hold a party and they’ll forgive that while Labour have to deal with endless bullshit scandals. The Tories can sell frontline healthcare workers defective counterfeit PPE during the worst plague in a hundred years and that’s somehow forgivable. The double standard is absolutely insane. Somehow people emerge thinking both sides bad.
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Northern Ireland26688 Posts
On February 28 2026 00:11 KwarK wrote:
British voters read the Daily Mail and manufactured anti Labour bullshit. Boris will force their grandma to die alone then hold a party and they’ll forgive that while Labour have to deal with endless bullshit scandals. The Tories can sell frontline healthcare workers defective counterfeit PPE during the worst plague in a hundred years and that’s somehow forgivable. The double standard is absolutely insane. Somehow people emerge thinking both sides bad.
Indeed, despite doing many, many things I’d rather they didn’t under Starmer and against my personal politics, this is one domain I do have sympathy with Labour.
I must say I find it rather baffling, indeed nigh-on inexplicable. Such double standards, despite being idiotic make sense across like a MAGA/Liberal divide or whatever, but don’t make a huge amount of sense from the centre of the British body politik. I mean from the wings, sure
It’s not as if those Tory scandals were buried by the media, they were all over the place. I do, I believe somewhat correctly greatly bemoan our media culture here, certainly specific outlets but equally they can only do so much. I guess I just don’t fundamentally understand how Joe or Jane centrist or whatever can go thisisfine.jpeg on the farrago of Tory fuckups, but get frothing at the mouth at some minor Labour scandal
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What's with the funeral this is one of the best news worldwide in a long while
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Northern Ireland26688 Posts
On February 27 2026 22:22 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2026 19:15 WombaT wrote:On February 27 2026 14:27 Jockmcplop wrote:
The Greens won.
Here come the excuses/conspiracy theories.
Hannah Spencer is actually pretty impressive, her campaign hit all the right notes. It was positive, called for both unity and pushing an agenda that suits her constituents about 'working hard all our lives to line the pockets of billionaires, and getting nothing out of it.'
Gorton's population will feel that very close to their hearts right now. Funny how that works eh? Makes things almost more frustrating for me. The Greens are doing the right things in many ways, to my sensibilities anyway but realistically ain’t carrying a general. Labour obviously can win generals, but seem set to consistently do many of the wrong things. To extend my radiant positivity out yet further, I do wonder if this is perhaps a result to be somewhat wary of. From some of what I’ve read as demographics go, rather fertile potential ground for the Greens for various reasons, and somewhat the inverse for Reform. To do as well as they did, what’s that going to look like when they’re contesting battlegrounds that suit them better? Added to this, while fucking hilarious that the Conservatives lost their deposit and being in calamitous shape, there’s not going to be much splitting of the right vote and siphoning away from Reform if the Tories perform even vaguely close to this dismally when we go across the nation Now I lived in Manchester for 10 years and spent alot of time in this constituency and the demographics probably aren't what you think they are. Gorton is mainly poor British folk, Denton is more wealthy, while longsight and Levenshulme are both quite heavily populated with middle Eastern people or those with that background. So there is some fertile ground for the Greens but really Labour have completely given this seat away by barring Burnham from running.
Aye fair, I’m just going off a few articles I’ve read, wouldn’t profess to be an expert on such matters.
The Burnham factor is probably not a negligible one, albeit it feels, as with many by-elections this is a referendum on Labour’s general performance, and they’re nae popular. On the flipside blocking him wasn’t a popular move nationally either. Feels like one Burnham doesn’t necessarily claw back for you despite his relative local popularity, but you definitely lose it if you block him from running. Not just via the act and candidate itself, but as an extension of the kind of moves that have already turned people off Starmer’s Labour
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On February 28 2026 00:42 Nebuchad wrote:
What's with the funeral this is one of the best news worldwide in a long while
Lingering fear that Reform will win the next election because the left will split between Labour and Green whereas Tories will go all in on Reform
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On February 28 2026 00:44 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2026 00:42 Nebuchad wrote:
What's with the funeral this is one of the best news worldwide in a long while Lingering fear that Reform will win the next election because the left will split between Labour and Green whereas Tories will go all in on Reform
Reform was a huge favorite to win the next election before this, nothing has changed on that front
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On February 28 2026 00:43 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2026 22:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On February 27 2026 19:15 WombaT wrote:On February 27 2026 14:27 Jockmcplop wrote:
The Greens won.
Here come the excuses/conspiracy theories.
Hannah Spencer is actually pretty impressive, her campaign hit all the right notes. It was positive, called for both unity and pushing an agenda that suits her constituents about 'working hard all our lives to line the pockets of billionaires, and getting nothing out of it.'
Gorton's population will feel that very close to their hearts right now. Funny how that works eh? Makes things almost more frustrating for me. The Greens are doing the right things in many ways, to my sensibilities anyway but realistically ain’t carrying a general. Labour obviously can win generals, but seem set to consistently do many of the wrong things. To extend my radiant positivity out yet further, I do wonder if this is perhaps a result to be somewhat wary of. From some of what I’ve read as demographics go, rather fertile potential ground for the Greens for various reasons, and somewhat the inverse for Reform. To do as well as they did, what’s that going to look like when they’re contesting battlegrounds that suit them better? Added to this, while fucking hilarious that the Conservatives lost their deposit and being in calamitous shape, there’s not going to be much splitting of the right vote and siphoning away from Reform if the Tories perform even vaguely close to this dismally when we go across the nation Now I lived in Manchester for 10 years and spent alot of time in this constituency and the demographics probably aren't what you think they are. Gorton is mainly poor British folk, Denton is more wealthy, while longsight and Levenshulme are both quite heavily populated with middle Eastern people or those with that background. So there is some fertile ground for the Greens but really Labour have completely given this seat away by barring Burnham from running. Aye fair, I’m just going off a few articles I’ve read, wouldn’t profess to be an expert on such matters. The Burnham factor is probably not a negligible one, albeit it feels, as with many by-elections this is a referendum on Labour’s general performance, and they’re nae popular. On the flipside blocking him wasn’t a popular move nationally either. Feels like one Burnham doesn’t necessarily claw back for you despite his relative local popularity, but you definitely lose it if you block him from running. Not just via the act and candidate itself, but as an extension of the kind of moves that have already turned people off Starmer’s Labour
Burnham is actually ridiculously popular in Manchester.
His bus reforms saved everyone 20 quid a week. He fixed the homeless zombie spice problem. Those who hated him for being Labour to begin with have been won over. He would have won easily.
The other factor beyond it being a referendum on Labour's general performance it's also a referendum on their decision to stop the guy from running.
The consensus is that they have done this to themselves.
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What was the reasoning for not letting him run?
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Northern Ireland26688 Posts
On February 28 2026 00:42 Nebuchad wrote:
What's with the funeral this is one of the best news worldwide in a long while
It’s a single seat by-election win from a party that’s very much a small parliamentary factor.
It may be good news, especially if Labour decide to stop getting their arse’s kicked trying to be all things and hence nothing to all people and take a leaf out of the Green’s book. Or various other permutations.
My worry is if the Tories are effectively a non-factor, assuming this isn’t a freak result, you’ve very little to split the Reform vote nationally, and alternatives on the centre thru left are going to be doing so, that’s the kinda Reform dream right there.
I mean obviously as an independent event it’s positive who won, but merely I think the results of everybody else are somewhat concerning if they’re at all replicated next general election.
On February 28 2026 00:51 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2026 00:44 LightSpectra wrote:On February 28 2026 00:42 Nebuchad wrote:
What's with the funeral this is one of the best news worldwide in a long while Lingering fear that Reform will win the next election because the left will split between Labour and Green whereas Tories will go all in on Reform Reform was a huge favorite to win the next election before this, nothing has changed on that front
They were, and in ways they weren’t. Polling has had them up there, on the other hand it’s always been in a vacuum, we’re a fair bit out from an election, and all the scrutiny it brings, and Reform don’t have a storied history of performing well then either.
They don’t have many political operators people like outside of Farage, and their wider platform hasn’t really been exposed to the public.
The hope the likes of myself have is that ‘immigrants bad’ builds momentum in this vacuum, but the whole edifice falls apart with the light of the increased scrutiny of a general election campaign.
The longer they keep doing relatively well the more that looks a pipe dream, but hey, one can but hope!
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EPT
