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On January 24 2017 07:35 bardtown wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2017 07:30 Jockmcplop wrote:On January 24 2017 07:26 bardtown wrote:
@Jock
Yes, but you're legitimately a condescending bigot who thinks he knows the minds of people better than they do themselves.
1: That is needlessly aggressive, cut it out. 2: Sounds like you're claiming to know my mind better than I do myself  Red my post again. FROM MY EXPERIENCE OF TALKING TO PEOPLE. I'm wondering if you can understand the meaning of those words. I got my impressions about why people voted from asking leave voters why they voted to leave. There is nothing bigoted about that. Yes, I understand it. You're saying the polling is wrong because of your anecdotal 'evidence'. I mean, I'm sure those people came up to you and said 'I'm voting to leave because I'm a good ol' fashioned racist!' and that wasn't you intentionally misinterpreting them having concerns about immigration.
And yet when asked about the pre vote polling what would you have said? Probably something about not trusting polls.
Lets see, we asked 100,000 leave voters:
"Did you vote because you are slightly racist and don't trust foreigners?"
And you know what? 100% of them said no!
Amazing.
Right, before you go medieval on my ass, I'm not saying that racism was the main factor, or even a major factor. I'm saying it was a factor. In fact the polling numbers of that poll, which had VERY narrow criteria btw, seem to suggest that it wasn't one factor that encouraged people to vote leave, but a mixture of different things.
If you would like to read back my earlier post, you will see that that was my point.
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On January 24 2017 07:26 bardtown wrote:
You do realise it would be impossible for us to negotiate free movement/free trade with them while in the EU? And EU free trade deals with them would be far more restrictive than bilateral deals will be.
I don't see why bilateral trade deals between the UK and the other commonwealth countries are inherently less restrictive than a trade deal between the EU and those countries? After all the UK and the EU had already harmonized most of their trade, so they'll just enter negotiations with the same things the EU would have.
And sure the UK now has somewhat more autonomy over the migration policies, but a free-movement like deal with the rest of the developed world would probably have been reality in the near future and migration barriers from Australia or Canada are already very low for skilled workers.
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On January 24 2017 07:44 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2017 07:26 bardtown wrote:
You do realise it would be impossible for us to negotiate free movement/free trade with them while in the EU? And EU free trade deals with them would be far more restrictive than bilateral deals will be. I don't see why bilateral trade deals between the UK and the other commonwealth countries are inherently less restrictive than a trade deal between the EU and those countries? After all the UK and the EU had already harmonized most of their trade, so they'll just enter negotiations with the same things the EU would have. And sure the UK now has somewhat more autonomy over the migration policies, but a free-movement like deal with the rest of the developed world would probably have been reality in the near future and migration barriers from Australia or Canada are already very low for skilled workers.
EU trade deals have to protect the vulnerable industries of 28 member states. UK trade deals have to protect the vulnerable industries of one particularly capitalist state that, as such, does not have many subsidised industries to protect. To be clear, though, this is a secondary benefit of leaving. There were more immediate concerns that drove the Brexit vote.
On January 24 2017 07:38 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2017 07:35 bardtown wrote:On January 24 2017 07:30 Jockmcplop wrote:On January 24 2017 07:26 bardtown wrote:
@Jock
Yes, but you're legitimately a condescending bigot who thinks he knows the minds of people better than they do themselves.
1: That is needlessly aggressive, cut it out. 2: Sounds like you're claiming to know my mind better than I do myself Red my post again. FROM MY EXPERIENCE OF TALKING TO PEOPLE. I'm wondering if you can understand the meaning of those words. I got my impressions about why people voted from asking leave voters why they voted to leave. There is nothing bigoted about that. Yes, I understand it. You're saying the polling is wrong because of your anecdotal 'evidence'. I mean, I'm sure those people came up to you and said 'I'm voting to leave because I'm a good ol' fashioned racist!' and that wasn't you intentionally misinterpreting them having concerns about immigration. And yet when asked about the pre vote polling what would you have said? Probably something about not trusting polls. Lets see, we asked 100,000 leave voters: "Did you vote because you are slightly racist and don't trust foreigners?" And you know what? 100% of them said no! Amazing. Right, before you go medieval on my ass, I'm not saying that racism was the main factor, or even a major factor. I'm saying it was a factor. In fact the polling numbers of that poll, which had VERY narrow criteria btw, seem to suggest that it wasn't one factor that encouraged people to vote leave, but a mixture of different things. If you would like to read back my earlier post, you will see that that was my point.
People had more than one reason to vote the way they did. Yes. The poll still shows that one reason was consistently considered to be the most important across the political spectrum. By the way, you can interpret all three of the top answers to be sovereignty. After all, in your list of factors I notice that you didn't include 'immigration' as a concern. So were you filing that under sovereignty or under racism? If sovereignty, then I think it is indisputable that this was the #1 factor. If racism, then sigh. Perhaps you just forgot.
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I´m really curious what that newly regained sovereignty will actually mean. Outside of immigration what are the issues the UK can now solve outside of the EU that they couldn´t get a special exception for?
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On January 24 2017 10:51 Unentschieden wrote:
I´m really curious what that newly regained sovereignty will actually mean. Outside of immigration what are the issues the UK can now solve outside of the EU that they couldn´t get a special exception for?
The shape of bananas. Turning the place into a tax haven. Eliminating basic worker rights. Deleting the 3 crop rule (now farmers can mass farm just 1 strain in hopes that a disease will mutate and take out the entire crop in one go), OGMs, hormone altering. You know, the important stuff. Of course this is only sovereignty for Westminster.
And yeah as stated above I don't think that the polls would correctly represent those who did vote for xenophobic reasons. And I mean just that a phobia, not necessarilly a hatrid. Given the options most people will come up with a different answer, no ones likes admitting that they're racist, even if it is apparent. Or at least fearful/distrustful of other peoples/cultures.
Anytime there is a more qualitative analysis it really does come up.
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Lol I would have expected the UK to be one of the last countries where judges don't dress fancily.
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Northern Ireland22213 Posts
why does the pound drop against the dollar after the ruling, i'll never understand the currency market
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Pound has already regained most of its loses though. Expect similiar situation when Brexit is formally announced (sharp drop then ragin most but not all). Such are the ways of market.
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PMQs today. Corbyn fails to really deliver, crying bargain basement is good but highlighting what it will mean for the basic income citizen is better i.e. NHS, infrastructure, etc. SNP seems to be the real opposition.
Ed Miliband, the former Labour leader, rises to a lot of cheering. “It brings back memories,” he says. He says May carries great responsibility in being the first foreign leader to meet President Trump. Will she urge him to stick to the Paris climate change agreement? And, if he does not believe in climate change, will she offer him some British scientists.
How is it such a great responsibility to be the first to meet Trump in person; unless she actually has the courage to stand up to him on climate change and Israel specifically then I don't understand how being first means anything. Unless it's the whole "If you're not first, you're last" mentality of the great Ricky Bobby. lawl
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Corbyn always fails to deliver. His idea of running the party is getting a few of his mates to try and do everything, but they have no experience of running a party or what it means you have to actually do.
He's absolutely fucking useless.
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A great responsibility in being the first foreign leader to meet President Trump? More like a great dishonour! At this point Ed Miliband is just looking to undermine Corbyn, not that is hard to do so. Tell me why I am wrong. Bite me.
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On January 23 2017 16:49 bardtown wrote:
Truthfully, you are beyond ignorant. Do you think those countries are English speaking coincidentally? Do you think there is some contradiction in trading with countries that were literally under the same administration and considered themselves English until a couple of generations ago? Did you sleep through the invention of shipping, or aeroplanes? Have you even heard of the 'Five Eyes'? It is amusing to hear people talk about 'shared history' and 'shared values' of the EU and then scoff at the idea of CANZUK cooperation. CANZUK countries have been working together constantly for centuries while Europeans ripped each others throats out in an ever-changing jumble of dictators, alliances and pseudo-friendships.
Do you think their success is coincidental, by the way? I suppose you think Hong Kong and Singapore are coincidentally exceptional, too? British values and institutions. Institutions that the EU consistently eroded.
One thing you said was accurate at least. We have reached political postmodernism, and not just in the US. This generation is so pampered that their political views need no grounding in history or respect for reality. Values are just for when it's convenient and rational thought is an obstacle to be overcome in justifying preconceptions.
Can't wait for the rise of the robots and humanity's last stand tbqh.
I just saw this and i must respond, just one thing i want to make it clear:
The world use English because of this country called US, you know, the one that coincidentally lead in economy, technology and most importantly, media, especially since WW2. People from outside of UK know US cultures better than UK, nuff said.
And seriously, i do find it amusing that people from anglosphere didn't realize that, it is a huge disadvantage that they only speak, listen and read one language.
I don't understand why are you going into 'EU is bad for working better together', this is most ridiculous thing i have heard in 2017 because you sound like this is 18th century lol. The key thing is how to make it work better, with EU; time changes, multiculturism, globalism happens, you sound like you refuse to acknowledge 'going forward' is the way to improve things, you would rather go 'backward'.
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On January 24 2017 10:51 Unentschieden wrote:
I´m really curious what that newly regained sovereignty will actually mean. Outside of immigration what are the issues the UK can now solve outside of the EU that they couldn´t get a special exception for?
They can have their cake and eat it now. 
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Turning the country into a tax haven for corporations.
Being except from sanctions against Russia (which UK pushed for)
Having to negotiate separate treaties!
Less illiterates!
NHS!
That said, we do make very nice cakes. CANZUK countries have been working together constantly for centuries making the best cakes the best of which English inguenity can make. Meanwhile Europeans ripped each others throats out in an ever-changing jumble of dictators, alliances and pseudo-friendships. European cakes erodes British cakes. Make UK Great Britain! What are Bulgarian cakes like? What's it like being part of an incredible engine of exploitation by German cake?
Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.
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^ I am putting that in my sign. hahah ^^
On January 24 2017 19:06 ahswtini wrote:
why does the pound drop against the dollar after the ruling, i'll never understand the currency market
because the whole goddamn stock/exchange market is not determined by rational logic, but emotions. It is a huge pain for small time share holder like myself -_-
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I would like to ban any mention of cake in this thread near the end of the month when I am skint and prone to food envy please.
My thread=my rules.
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On January 27 2017 07:37 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Turning the country into a tax haven for corporations.
Being except from sanctions against Russia (which UK pushed for)
Having to negotiate separate treaties!
Less illiterates!
NHS!
That said, we do make very nice cakes. CANZUK countries have been working together constantly for centuries making the best cakes the best of which English inguenity can make. Meanwhile Europeans ripped each others throats out in an ever-changing jumble of dictators, alliances and pseudo-friendships. European cakes erodes British cakes. Make UK Great Britain! What are Bulgarian cakes like? What's it like being part of an incredible engine of exploitation by German cake?
Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.
Bulgarian cares are nice. I don't care how British ones compare to whatever because this is a silly way to turn this into a debate. And yes, I choose Europe over the UK any day, any time. I even live in the UK and I still prefer EU. UK made a horrible mistake to leave, but you don't know it yet.
Edit: German cake is made more efficiently. German cake is shared with friends and its makers are happy to have you around if you know what I mean.
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What. Did. I. Just. Say.
Are we going to have a falling out Shield?
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Sorry! It's good for you anyway. Less refined sugar means better unless you're low on basic food.
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haha true. I can pretend I'm on a diet and all is good.
ps You won't find a finer baked good than a Bakewell Tart
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EPT
