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On January 23 2017 16:49 bardtown wrote: Truthfully, you are beyond ignorant. Do you think those countries are English speaking coincidentally? Do you think there is some contradiction in trading with countries that were literally under the same administration and considered themselves English until a couple of generations ago? Did you sleep through the invention of shipping, or aeroplanes? Have you even heard of the 'Five Eyes'? It is amusing to hear people talk about 'shared history' and 'shared values' of the EU and then scoff at the idea of CANZUK cooperation. CANZUK countries have been working together constantly for centuries while Europeans ripped each others throats out in an ever-changing jumble of dictators, alliances and pseudo-friendships.
Do you think their success is coincidental, by the way? I suppose you think Hong Kong and Singapore are coincidentally exceptional, too? British values and institutions. Institutions that the EU consistently eroded.
One thing you said was accurate at least. We have reached political postmodernism, and not just in the US. This generation is so pampered that their political views need no grounding in history or respect for reality. Values are just for when it's convenient and rational thought is an obstacle to be overcome in justifying preconceptions.
Can't wait for the rise of the robots and humanity's last stand tbqh.
I just saw this and i must respond, just one thing i want to make it clear:
The world use English because of this country called US, you know, the one that coincidentally lead in economy, technology and most importantly, media, especially since WW2. People from outside of UK know US cultures better than UK, nuff said.
And seriously, i do find it amusing that people from anglosphere didn't realize that, it is a huge disadvantage that they only speak, listen and read one language.
I don't understand why are you going into 'EU is bad for working better together', this is most ridiculous thing i have heard in 2017 because you sound like this is 18th century lol. The key thing is how to make it work better, with EU; time changes, multiculturism, globalism happens, you sound like you refuse to acknowledge 'going forward' is the way to improve things, you would rather go 'backward'.
What on earth are you talking about? You think Australia, New Zealand, Singapore and Canada speak English because of the US? You need to go back to school.
Even ignoring that, you're making quite a horrendous oversimplification in saying that English is the lingua franca because of the US. You know which country lead in economy, technology and media before the US? If you look at a map of countries which have English as an official language it is essentially a map of the British empire. Also, much to your dismay I'm sure, you will find that the UK is still considered very influential in cultural terms.
It just so happens (and no doubt this is purely coincidental too) that we have had two successive English speaking hegemons. The US is hegemon now, but it was the UK that spread the language to every continent. And it can hardly be doubted that the fact that there are so many English speaking countries plays a large role in it being the international language of choice.
As far as cake goes, I don't know about Bulgaria but when I was in Romania I could not find a single cake without rum in it. If sovereignty wasn't enough...
Quite interesting article by politico about May visiting Trump and a controversial relationship. I would recommend reading the whole thing.
While May must pull out all the stops ahead of Britain’s formal withdrawal from the EU, expected to begin in March and be completed in 2019, the cost of cooperation with the most unpredictable president in post-war history is unknown.
From the future of NATO to Russian relations, ISIS, global warming, trade barriers and the use of torture, Trump’s new regime may pose significant problems for the U.K. From left, U.S. President Donald Trump, first lady Melania Trump, Maj. Gen. Bradley Becker, Vice President Mike Pence and his wife Karen Pence
From left, U.S. President Donald Trump, first lady Melania Trump, Maj. Gen. Bradley Becker, Vice President Mike Pence and his wife Karen Pence | Michael Heiman/Getty Images
Former Labour leader Ed Miliband gave a flavor of the trouble ahead, tweeting Wednesday night: “Today he starts on the wall, praises waterboarding, bullies climate scientists. She says they can lead together. Surely decent Tories feel queasy?”
Some certainly are. Andrew Tyrie, Conservative MP and chair of the treasury select committee, warned May at Prime Minister’s Questions Wednesday not to let the U.K. “be dragged into facilitating…torture, as we were after 11 September [2001].”
Others credit May for hard-headed pursuit of the national interest.
“Our relationship with the Trump administration is going to be based on our mutual interest, which is very substantial,” Conservative MP Crispin Blunt, chair of parliament’s foreign affairs committee, told POLITICO. “There is an early and very important interest in securing a free trade agreement between the U.S. and the U.K. which is based on our need, as part of repositioning our role in the world after we leave the EU.”
As she gets down to business with the New York billionaire Friday lunchtime, May faces the daunting task of fostering good relations while simultaneously keeping her distance.
Britain has long been the needy, dependent partner in this transatlantic alliance, constantly seeking reassurance whenever the U.S. appeared to be going cold. But with Trump in the White House, the U.K.’s problem has almost flipped on its head.
Trump is so wrapped up in Britain’s decision to withdraw from the European Union he feels ownership of its success, said the president’s allies in the Brexit movement.
In many respects, the president and his team are more ideologically committed to Brexit — and the disruption of a cosy elite it symbolizes for them — than May, who campaigned to remain in the EU. In Trump, May might find a friend urging her to go further than she is comfortable to.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- A further benefit of the Republican visit is the chance to press the case for America’s continued leadership and commitment to NATO — the alliance which forms the cornerstone of British national security but which Trump described during his election campaign as “obsolete.”
The PM will press Trump on the issue on Friday, a senior Downing Street source said. May is expected to call on the president to commit to “further strengthening” of the alliance to take the fight to ISIS.
She will also raise the tricky subject of Syria, which touches upon the major foreign policy difference between the U.K. and U.S. under Trump: Russia.
May this week reaffirmed Britain’s commitment to Ukrainian sovereignty in its battle with Moscow. Trump in contrast has floated the idea of a grand bargain with Vladimir Putin.
Allies of the prime minister and Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson have made it clear in private that Britain will not change its tune on Russia, regardless of Trump.
The real danger is not being left out in the cold of a Russian reset, but being dragged further back into the mire of the Middle East in Trump’s ramped-up war on ISIS. One of May’s co-chiefs of staff, Nick Timothy, has publicly warned against interventionist foreign policy and she can ill-afford any other distractions while trying to take Britain out of the EU.
Without expressing an opinion on how it relates to Brexit, or any arguments made by bardtown or against him... it is true that Australia, New Zealand and Canada are more closely linked with the UK than most countries are linked. For instance, all four of those countries have the same head of state. (An obvious statement, but nevertheless... these posts
On January 23 2017 11:29 BurningSera wrote: ... I get a minor headache there because I truly do not understand where did that bolded part come from. Is that because you think aus, Canada, nz share some insignificant linkage there, or simply because they speak English lol. ...
On January 23 2017 14:40 Nyxisto wrote: I think bardtown believes that there exists some spiritual bond shared by all anglophone people that will bridge the 18.000km between New Zealand and the United Kingdom. In the US thread we discovered that we have reached political postmodernism. Apparently that also includes post-geography-ism
No one is denying that there are great cultural links between UK and former dominion countries, which arises from shared culture, language and history. The problem is the suggestion that free trade and movement between UK and these countries will be swiftly agreed simply on the basis of this past shared culture. Afterall, after these countries became self governing, a completely free trade and movement never occured in the first place, being beset mainly by agricultural issues.
The second problem is simple, once looking a map of the world. They can never replace the EU economically speaking, no matter how much bardtown wishes it were so. Not only are their economies smaller, they are also thousands of miles away, as opposed to being practically next door. As an example NZ is literally on the opposite side of the world.
That's not to say that UK and these countries don't enjoy levels of movement and economic activity beyond what geography and economic size suggests, which can only occur due to the sheer amount of shared familial and cultural links, but these shared links cannot overcome the obstacles that has never been overcome in the first place simply by wishful thinking.
Personally I think it'll be great if somehow UK, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, countries divided by oceans, can come forth into a single market with free movement; afterall many people in UK have family in these countries, and replace the EU, but it simply isn't even remotely feasible. There's a reason why these countries are no longer Dominions. Their political and economic and geographical needs are far removed from UK's, and these forces, in the past and present, are far more powerful than mere cultural links.
I think what he was indicating, and this is completely true, is that countries like France, Germany, China, Japan, etc. Do not now learn English or culture from the UK but from the USA. Canadian, aus, NZ TV is filled with American TV shows and culture not British. There is no point in engaging the insanity of bardtown; England is the greatest nation on Earth and all bow to England.
PS: Australia demanding the EU do anything in regards to Brexit is laughable, it quite honestly means nothing.
On January 27 2017 21:33 Dangermousecatdog wrote: No one is denying that there are great cultural links between UK and former dominion countries, which arises from shared culture, language and history. ...
I don't think there is a reasonable interpretation of some of the posts in the last few pages which is consistent with this statement.
Once again, for the purposes of emphasis, I don't endorse bardtown's conclusions - but if you're going to argue against him, be careful that you are on solid ground yourselves. Countering an invalid point with an invalid refutation only confounds the issue.
On January 27 2017 23:11 MyTHicaL wrote: I think what he was indicating, and this is completely true, is that countries like France, Germany, China, Japan, etc. Do not now learn English or culture from the UK but from the USA. Canadian, aus, NZ TV is filled with American TV shows and culture not British. ...
Speaking for Australia, I would call this "partially true". Both the UK and the USA have some cultural influence. Though I don't have personal experience of either, I would guess that NZ is similar (possibly a bit less), and Canada is more influenced by the US.
The question of whether the status of English as the global lingua franca is due to the influence of the USA in the last century or so, or of the UK in the centuries preceding, does not seem to me to have an obvious answer; personally, I would not callously dismiss arguments in favour of either viewpoint.
350Million for the NHS? Nah, let's just sell it to private US corporations! But it shall be worth it if the country gets 10k jobs in return!. First T.May thinks that the UK holds the upperhand vs the EU now she thinks it at least holds a middle ground vs the US. Oh well, time for some popcorn.
The question of whether the status of English as the global lingua franca is due to the influence of the USA in the last century or so, or of the UK in the centuries preceding, does not seem to me to have an obvious answer; personally, I would not callously dismiss arguments in favour of either viewpoint.
No actually, this has nothing to do with anything. This is about today's politics. It doesn't matter what the historical reasons behind it are. In today's world, of recent generations, people want to speak English either for business or because of American culture.
New Zealanders and Australians and most Canadians speak English because it's their first language. It doesn't matter though, because those countries decided to move away from UK.
On January 27 2017 08:10 Jockmcplop wrote: I would like to ban any mention of cake in this thread near the end of the month when I am skint and prone to food envy please. My thread=my rules.
Don't worry... we all know that the cake is a lie.
Media: 80% us and 20% brittish but very mixed. Life: british drunks in cities that paint a strange/worrying picture of britain. Not, that i do weekendtrips to cities for "culture" but the english (mainly english, scots/irish seem a bit diffrent - better) just stay in worse copies of the pubs they have at home anyway.
Not even going in to football, barely any country looks good then, but... you still stick out among "the bad".
On January 28 2017 00:57 Dangermousecatdog wrote: New Zealanders and Australians and most Canadians speak English because it's their first language. It doesn't matter though, because those countries decided to move away from UK.
And it is their first language because...
On January 28 2017 00:07 MyTHicaL wrote: No actually, this has nothing to do with anything. This is about today's politics. It doesn't matter what the historical reasons behind it are. In today's world, of recent generations, people want to speak English either for business or because of American culture.
And it is useful for business because so many countries speak English because...
On January 28 2017 02:25 Velr wrote: Cultural influence from what i see in my life.
Media: 80% us and 20% brittish but very mixed. Life: british drunks in cities that paint a strange/worrying picture of britain. Not, that i do weekendtrips to cities for "culture" but the english (mainly english, scots/irish seem a bit diffrent - better) just stay in worse copies of the pubs they have at home anyway.
Not even going in to football, barely any country looks good then, but... you still stick out among "the bad".
Out of curiosity, why do you post here? Your experiences of British culture make it clear we are trash and you shouldn't waste your time on the likes of us.
On January 27 2017 23:11 MyTHicaL wrote: There is no point in engaging the insanity of bardtown; England is the greatest nation on Earth and all bow to England.
Not really. Among the greatest for various things - politics, philosophy, literature, science, exploration, etc. But who would deny that, anyway? Just because I acknowledge the achievements of England (and that there are a lot of them) does not mean I disregard its flaws or the achievements of others.
I certainly don't think anyone should bow to England. Everyone should stand on their own two feet and compete to the best of their abilities.
No, I'm not. Generally speaking they are quite a bit further to the right than me and from what I've seen they don't have many candidates who are actually qualified to be MPs. Conservatives are the only viable party at the moment, in my eyes, but I would have happily voted for Labour if David Miliband had won. Jacob Rees-Mogg for PM.
No he's a tory. Now I'm not even going to watch that video since in the foreground is that twat who gets ripped apart on Have I get News for you on a regular basis. But seems to find it hilarious how politically neutral he finds himself.
300 years ago Britain colonised Aus, NZ, some parts of Canada. So what? You think they owe you anything in today's world? English as an international language is thanks to the US, sorry. Then since every country started using it, it's just become the most popular go-between language, if I had to deal with Germans I would speak in English; A. because they generally speak more correctly than Brits do and B. because I doubt that they would speak French. Same thing if I had to do anything with a Japanese firm. It does not, in any which way or form, illustrate or highlight the UKs power in the world. Just so pompous and ignorant as per usual, what you need is a time travel device, without it- never leave the UK.
And This:
On January 28 2017 02:25 Velr wrote: Cultural influence from what i see in my life.
Media: 80% us and 20% brittish but very mixed. Life: british drunks in cities that paint a strange/worrying picture of britain. Not, that i do weekendtrips to cities for "culture" but the english (mainly english, scots/irish seem a bit diffrent - better) just stay in worse copies of the pubs they have at home anyway.
Not even going in to football, barely any country looks good then, but... you still stick out among "the bad".
Out of curiosity, why do you post here? Your experiences of British culture make it clear we are trash and you shouldn't waste your time on the likes of us.
This just sums you up to a tee. Since one of the random EU relationships being proposed is the Swiss model, along with idiot torries trying to petition them to forge business alliances, he has every right to post here. It is what most people think of your countrymen because that's what they do. Furthermore you keep going on and on about your culturual influences and strengths. That is a perspective from a foreign country, but a negative one so you immediately disregard it. They go to random EU cities, get plastered, and then hang out in mostly English-esque pubs. It's like during the Euro 2016 (go Iceland, roflmao), crowds of drunken Englishman chanting we're going out we're going out, fuck off Europe. It was always a terrible idea to pull that shit in Marseille, and what happened to them was deserved, and no in Marseille it wasn't the Russians.
I wonder how Theresa May feels about one of her MPs being banned from America? We'll never know because even as an unelected PM she doesn't feel like she has to answer questions about it.
On January 29 2017 07:50 Jockmcplop wrote: I wonder how Theresa May feels about one of her MPs being banned from America? We'll never know because even as an unelected PM she doesn't feel like she has to answer questions about it.
She's not in the position to say anything negative about Trump. Hell, she had to kiss Erdogan's ass today, who is much worse. Regardless of who is PM and which party is in charge, for the next ~10 years the UK's position towards any lunatic in charge of a major economy can only be nodding and smiling.
Pretty much. Thanks to Brexit, we now have to forget all about our values as a nation and just try and cuddle up to anyone that will do a deal with us.
Thanks to 52% (also known as morons) who shitted on economy as well. Even though the UK hasn't left, it's already visible in shops that prices are higher.
On January 29 2017 07:50 Jockmcplop wrote: I wonder how Theresa May feels about one of her MPs being banned from America? We'll never know because even as an unelected PM she doesn't feel like she has to answer questions about it.
That's funny because I think she said something about it almost immediately after it came into effect.
But, you know, don't let facts get in the way.
On January 29 2017 10:07 Shield wrote: Thanks to 52% (also known as morons) who shitted on economy as well. Even though the UK hasn't left, it's already visible in shops that prices are higher.
That's funny because the economy seems to be doing fine, growing faster than predicted before the vote, and inflation is still below the BoE target.
EPT
