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On May 02 2013 20:09 Ahelvin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:06 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 19:59 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 19:57 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 19:56 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 19:55 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 19:52 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 19:49 Nausea wrote:
I like how one in this thread called this "attention seeking blog". Ah the sexism shines through like a bright light.. Can you tell me any blog you can point to that is not in its nature attention seeking. I think if you post anything on the internet you are attention seeking. Wow look at all the news posts on this site, how attention seeking. I liked your attention seeking post btw. But as a women when she speaks she speaks purely to get male attention because she's overreacting. Literally the response in this topic. I was expecting more from you KwarK. But if you're going to turn this into a circle jerk of "feminism is right" without bringing any semblance of an argument that pertains to the case in question, and not some vague "woman have it rough irl" that isn't even relevant, I'll just concede and find something better to do with my time. You're objectively wrong. The topic is better without more wrong on it. Feel free to leave. Thanks for pointing out how I'm wrong with actual examples other than "you're wrong". I didn't see the point if you were already passive aggressively leaving. I'm interested because you always claim that some of the views I agree with are "objectively wrong" and "sexist" but in no thread that I have seen you post in, did you actually refute any of it other than just fluff circlejerky statements that weren't even relevant to the case at hand. So in that sense, I'm really wondering if you can follow through and make an actual case. Ok. Would you argue that men and women are considered in the same way when it comes to what they are expected to do, how they should react given a certain situation, and that they have absolutely equal opportunities no matter what kind of activity they want to engage into? If you do not, please explain why. Personally, the conclusion that I have come to after looking at some of these issues is that human society will never get rid of discrimination without also getting rid of individualism. But that's likely grounds for another debate entirely. The problem I have with feminism defenders is how they never also look at the advantages that sexism would entail for women. Wrong. Entirely wrong. Feminism is all about making people conscious of the prejudice associated with each gender (and men are also subjected to it, the proof being the existence of words such as "man up" or "get some balls" : men are always expected to act strong, tough...) in order for individuals to be more free of doing what they really want to do and being what they really want to be, independently of what the society would like them to be given their gender.
In theory.
But in practice, tell me, why is no woman complaining that she is far more likely to receive custody of a child after a divorce? Why is no woman complaining about alimony, and the whole legal mechanism surrounding that? Why do they not also fight against the advantages that the same discrimination brings them?
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On May 02 2013 19:33 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 19:27 FrogOfWar wrote:
Lol, "easily offended". People on a regular basis throwing their most sickening fantasies and insults at her while she's putting up work and passion for what she likes, as a free service to others. Why would she feel uncomfortable with that? Strange! It's a risk that comes with putting yourself out there on the internet for everyone to see. And please, don't give me "sickening fantasies" when you know just as well as I that 90% of those posts are doing it just for the hell of it, not because they actually give a shit about her. Trolls be trollin', no surprise there. Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 19:27 FrogOfWar wrote:
Think hard and maybe you will see the vast differences. Imagine you're musician and people boo and throw foul fruit at you for no reason. I'm sure you'd just laugh and brush it off. I'll not ask you to imagine that this happens to you as a female musician from an all-male audience and the whole objectification thing, because you're clearly not willing to try.
You're not offering your hard work up to the public when you have bnet find a match, and you're both anonymous, he doesn't have your picture, his comments on your personality are necessarily unfounded, and it is impossible for him to comment on your physicalitiy.
Please don't try to compare some mean comments on the internet to people actually booing you and throwing things at you IN REAL LIFE, while you're physically there and can actually get hurt. Most people will not do that IRL. On the contrary, many people will do that on the Internet, simply because they can; cheap entertainment for them at your expense.
Are you saying that only physical harm is harm? I wouldn't know what to say to that.
I don't understand how "cheap entertainment for them at your expense" can appear the slightest bit acceptable to you. Nobody says it can be magically wished away, and nobody wants the death penalty for the trolls. She only says she's sick of it and it's a problem. As I said, the least one can to and has to do when there's a problem is not to shut up about it.
Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 19:27 FrogOfWar wrote:
She does deal with it by neither shutting up nor accepting the unacceptable.
But I'd prefer this to be seen as a female perspective on sexism in gaming rather than discussion how smart/ballsy/attractive/whatever this woman is or how manly you are. When your contribution is that things are the way the are, ok, we got that. Lol. No. She doesn't deal with it. She's just feeding the trolls while at the same time, just like I said above, perpetuating the stereotype that girls are only after attention and drama. It's ironic that she whines about sexism and then portrays several tropes herself, both in playing victim and in trying to draw attention to meaningless drama.
It is not meaningless. Can you for one second try to imagine that some people do not like to be insulted and objectified on a regular basis? That it is actually hurtful, that to some people telecommunication technology being involved does not take all meaning out of interaction as it apparently does for you?
Why do you even reply to me? It's the internet, we're anonymous, I could be an axe murderer. Why does it matter at all to you what I say when it's the internet and it's all meaningless?
If you seriously think the Internet can change, you must be new here. You really must be, there's no doubt about that.
No, I've been using the internet for many, many years, been in communities, had my own websites and blogs. Of course it can change. It does change all the time. The internet ist just one way people communicate. You're basically saying that people can't change, and institutions can't change. I'm saying they can, they do anyways, and even if we can't immediately right a wrong we can and should still say it's wrong.
Why doesn't she get some of her more ardent fans to moderate and overlook the comment section or whatever for her? 
Good idea, finally something we agree on
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United States41928 Posts
On May 02 2013 20:13 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:05 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:02 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 edlover420 wrote:On May 02 2013 19:57 DR.Ham wrote:On May 02 2013 19:39 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 19:36 nttea wrote:
Oh my god you guys are unbearable... Seriously a girl gets upset over trolls and you all get a stick up your ass over it, for every girl complaining about sexism there's like 20 dudes complaining about girls complaining over sexism. How about man up? Why is girls complaining about sexism so incredibly important an issue to you that you constantly have to point out how ridiculous you think they are? The replies to this topic so far have been pretty demoralising. Whenever a topic like this comes along I like teamliquid a little less. It's impressive to me that she has the passion for games and such that she is willing to put up with all the bullshit and still produce content. I actually watched few of her videos, since I'm totally bored right now and they are quite awful content wise, I'm pretty sure that if she were a man she wouldn't get 1/10 of the views she has now. Therefore she made her entire carrier based on her gender but don't want to deal with gender difference. That's so so hypocritical... This post is literally "yes she got a load of sexist abuse and harassment but she was asking for it by doing X which encouraged male attention". But do you disagree that women on the internet naturally get a lot more attention for a disproportionately lesser amount of effort put into whatever? Not relevant. Can you not see that he just rationalised sexist abuse because this girl asked for it by doing something other than going "please send me sexist abuse"? If so, how can you not see that? People like him are literally the problem. Just because you say it's not relevant, does not in fact mean it's not relevant. If she gets far more attention and exposure than a male counterpart while doing the same thing, in this case producing web content, it's only mathematically accurate that she will get more negative attention as well, because no matter the viewerbase there will be trolls and haters. Higher viewerbase, more of those. So she's thrown off the deep end in this sense, which is good because either she learns to deal with it more quickly than others would, or she reaches the point of "this is hurting me, I can't continue to do this" sooner.
He didn't say putting herself in the public eye made her a target. He said as a woman who did things which men could find attractive she asked for harassment by men. Literally rape culture.
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On May 02 2013 20:18 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:13 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:05 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:02 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 edlover420 wrote:On May 02 2013 19:57 DR.Ham wrote:On May 02 2013 19:39 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 19:36 nttea wrote:
Oh my god you guys are unbearable... Seriously a girl gets upset over trolls and you all get a stick up your ass over it, for every girl complaining about sexism there's like 20 dudes complaining about girls complaining over sexism. How about man up? Why is girls complaining about sexism so incredibly important an issue to you that you constantly have to point out how ridiculous you think they are? The replies to this topic so far have been pretty demoralising. Whenever a topic like this comes along I like teamliquid a little less. It's impressive to me that she has the passion for games and such that she is willing to put up with all the bullshit and still produce content. I actually watched few of her videos, since I'm totally bored right now and they are quite awful content wise, I'm pretty sure that if she were a man she wouldn't get 1/10 of the views she has now. Therefore she made her entire carrier based on her gender but don't want to deal with gender difference. That's so so hypocritical... This post is literally "yes she got a load of sexist abuse and harassment but she was asking for it by doing X which encouraged male attention". But do you disagree that women on the internet naturally get a lot more attention for a disproportionately lesser amount of effort put into whatever? Not relevant. Can you not see that he just rationalised sexist abuse because this girl asked for it by doing something other than going "please send me sexist abuse"? If so, how can you not see that? People like him are literally the problem. Just because you say it's not relevant, does not in fact mean it's not relevant. If she gets far more attention and exposure than a male counterpart while doing the same thing, in this case producing web content, it's only mathematically accurate that she will get more negative attention as well, because no matter the viewerbase there will be trolls and haters. Higher viewerbase, more of those. So she's thrown off the deep end in this sense, which is good because either she learns to deal with it more quickly than others would, or she reaches the point of "this is hurting me, I can't continue to do this" sooner. He didn't say putting herself in the public eye made her a target. He said as a woman who did things which men could find attractive she asked for harassment by men. Literally rape culture.
I'm not talking about that guy's post.
You keep diverting attention from what I'm saying to what that guy's saying. I'm not interested in defending him or his views, I want to know how you feel about women online receiving much more attention for the same amount of effort that a male counterpart would put in.
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On May 02 2013 20:13 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:10 AngryMag wrote:
Don't know how anybody can get riled up over facebook or youtube comments... Apart from getting rid of the internet's anonymity (which won't happen and for good reasons), I don't see a quick fix. Somewhat pointless to waste time for the trolls there or get riled up over their comments. You are assuming a narrow relevance to just internet trolls whereas the responses in this topic, such as the "she was asking for it by doing something which men see and can get their attention, even if that was not her intention" one, show that this is not a narrow issue. This is the problem.
I see the issue. Seeing the issue doesn't solve the problem, though. Some people will be asses because it's the internet, you don't have the risk of getting punched in the face like in everyday situations. There is no realistic way of sanctioning bad behaviour (anonymity of the net, maybe a short temp ban if you step over the line too much, that's it), so it will continue to happen, that is why I think arguing about it is pointless.
Of course you can try to get people to be nice to each other but it won't happen, it's too easy to act in a bad way and there are no consequences to bad behaviour. Thus people who like it will continue to do it.
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On May 02 2013 19:57 DR.Ham wrote:
* I have it just as bad being a man, but I can't complain about it.
Disregarding the "I" part (since I'm a generic white guy).
Yes, other people have it just as bad. "Nigger", "ginger", "gook", "jew", "american faggot", fat people, well build people ("lol no brain only steroids!!").
A lot of people are insulted by idiots. Be it on the internet or even in real life (i.e. player booed / insulted in football matches). Read the comments of any YT video created by a member of a minority and you will see insulting comments.
Sure, if you believe that Sexism is worse than Racism, than those people dont have it as bad as women.
But imho both is very bad. But in the end it's just the easiest way to ignore it, and you definitely shouldnt go out of your way to read bad stuff (unhiding youtube comments, reading massively downvoted (and probably hidden) reddit comments).
The only thing I learned from the article though is that "MARRY ME" and "I WANT TO HAVE YOUR BABIES" was received as very sexist. Considering how often the SC community uses this kind of phrase when talking about loved members of the community & pro gamers. Or the existence of the Nada's Body thread, which should probably be closed since it's sexist as well :/
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On May 02 2013 20:18 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:13 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:05 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:02 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 edlover420 wrote:On May 02 2013 19:57 DR.Ham wrote:On May 02 2013 19:39 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 19:36 nttea wrote:
Oh my god you guys are unbearable... Seriously a girl gets upset over trolls and you all get a stick up your ass over it, for every girl complaining about sexism there's like 20 dudes complaining about girls complaining over sexism. How about man up? Why is girls complaining about sexism so incredibly important an issue to you that you constantly have to point out how ridiculous you think they are? The replies to this topic so far have been pretty demoralising. Whenever a topic like this comes along I like teamliquid a little less. It's impressive to me that she has the passion for games and such that she is willing to put up with all the bullshit and still produce content. I actually watched few of her videos, since I'm totally bored right now and they are quite awful content wise, I'm pretty sure that if she were a man she wouldn't get 1/10 of the views she has now. Therefore she made her entire carrier based on her gender but don't want to deal with gender difference. That's so so hypocritical... This post is literally "yes she got a load of sexist abuse and harassment but she was asking for it by doing X which encouraged male attention". But do you disagree that women on the internet naturally get a lot more attention for a disproportionately lesser amount of effort put into whatever? Not relevant. Can you not see that he just rationalised sexist abuse because this girl asked for it by doing something other than going "please send me sexist abuse"? If so, how can you not see that? People like him are literally the problem. Just because you say it's not relevant, does not in fact mean it's not relevant. If she gets far more attention and exposure than a male counterpart while doing the same thing, in this case producing web content, it's only mathematically accurate that she will get more negative attention as well, because no matter the viewerbase there will be trolls and haters. Higher viewerbase, more of those. So she's thrown off the deep end in this sense, which is good because either she learns to deal with it more quickly than others would, or she reaches the point of "this is hurting me, I can't continue to do this" sooner. He didn't say putting herself in the public eye made her a target. He said as a woman who did things which men could find attractive she asked for harassment by men. Literally rape culture.
You misinterpret every comment that doesn't run along with your opinion, and twist it in your mind so that it is offensive and stupid.
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On May 02 2013 20:16 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:09 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:06 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 19:59 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 19:57 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 19:56 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 19:55 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 19:52 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
But as a women when she speaks she speaks purely to get male attention because she's overreacting. Literally the response in this topic. I was expecting more from you KwarK. But if you're going to turn this into a circle jerk of "feminism is right" without bringing any semblance of an argument that pertains to the case in question, and not some vague "woman have it rough irl" that isn't even relevant, I'll just concede and find something better to do with my time. You're objectively wrong. The topic is better without more wrong on it. Feel free to leave. Thanks for pointing out how I'm wrong with actual examples other than "you're wrong". I didn't see the point if you were already passive aggressively leaving. I'm interested because you always claim that some of the views I agree with are "objectively wrong" and "sexist" but in no thread that I have seen you post in, did you actually refute any of it other than just fluff circlejerky statements that weren't even relevant to the case at hand. So in that sense, I'm really wondering if you can follow through and make an actual case. Ok. Would you argue that men and women are considered in the same way when it comes to what they are expected to do, how they should react given a certain situation, and that they have absolutely equal opportunities no matter what kind of activity they want to engage into? If you do not, please explain why. Personally, the conclusion that I have come to after looking at some of these issues is that human society will never get rid of discrimination without also getting rid of individualism. But that's likely grounds for another debate entirely. The problem I have with feminism defenders is how they never also look at the advantages that sexism would entail for women. Wrong. Entirely wrong. Feminism is all about making people conscious of the prejudice associated with each gender (and men are also subjected to it, the proof being the existence of words such as "man up" or "get some balls" : men are always expected to act strong, tough...) in order for individuals to be more free of doing what they really want to do and being what they really want to be, independently of what the society would like them to be given their gender. In theory. But in practice, tell me, why is no woman complaining that she is far more likely to receive custody of a child after a divorce? Why is no woman complaining about alimony, and the whole legal mechanism surrounding that? Why do they not also fight against the advantages that the same discrimination brings them?
Ah, I was waiting for it.
The good old custody argument.
I do not know about elsewhere, but in France, the reason why custody goes to the mother is for a simple reason : the father is seldom asking for custody. And in case of dispute where the father actually asked for custody (baring from the case of abuse from one side or another on children, obviously), guess what? The numbers between fathers and mothers even out.
And I love your generalization "why is no woman...". Hmm. So you know all the feminists in the world? No, of course not. But to say such a thing, you must at least have some data to prove that the vast majority of feminists are fighting against men's right, right? No, not even that? How many feminist authors and intellectuals can you quote? This is just ignorance and prejudice about what feminism is, period. I'm sorry, I'm a cis man, heterosexual, and I do not feel threatened in any way by the feminist manifesto and movements I have read. In fact, I strongly believe that I will benefit from feminism and tha I will have more freedom in my future life thanks to it. Why is so, am I delusional?
EDIT : Ugh. Reading the reply above me made my brain hurt. I'd rather watch Life vs Innovation than debate with people that have zero clue of sociology, social determinism, and the general dynamics of human interaction. I'm out :D.
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On May 02 2013 20:17 FrogOfWar wrote:
It is not meaningless. Can you for one second try to imagine that some people do not like to be insulted and objectified on a regular basis? That it is actually hurtful, that to some people telecommunication technology being involved does not take all meaning out of interaction as it apparently does for you?
Why do you even reply to me? It's the internet, we're anonymous, I could be an axe murderer. Why does it matter at all to you what I say when it's the internet and it's all meaningless?
It's only hurtful if you make it. You're right, I can't identify that well with that mentality, I like to think I have a fairly thick skin and there's little spoken or written word that could get to me. If someone says to me things that I do not like, and to which there is no real merit or truth, I will not give that person attention, validation or consideration, because I do not consider their little "attack" as being worthy of such things.
This is a mentality that has served me well so far, and personally I believe it would serve others well as well, provided they chose to adopt it.
I'm really not in this thread to fight, I'm trying to see your angles on this and compare them to mine, but ultimately if I were asked to offer a realistic solution it would probably be the above.
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5 pages. Omg stop being so butthurt and attention seeking. And the same to all "white knights" (which means: it's us vs them and you just chose their side).
User was temp banned for this post.
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On May 02 2013 20:22 Ahelvin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:16 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:09 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:06 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 19:59 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 19:57 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 19:56 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 19:55 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
I was expecting more from you KwarK. But if you're going to turn this into a circle jerk of "feminism is right" without bringing any semblance of an argument that pertains to the case in question, and not some vague "woman have it rough irl" that isn't even relevant, I'll just concede and find something better to do with my time. You're objectively wrong. The topic is better without more wrong on it. Feel free to leave. Thanks for pointing out how I'm wrong with actual examples other than "you're wrong". I didn't see the point if you were already passive aggressively leaving. I'm interested because you always claim that some of the views I agree with are "objectively wrong" and "sexist" but in no thread that I have seen you post in, did you actually refute any of it other than just fluff circlejerky statements that weren't even relevant to the case at hand. So in that sense, I'm really wondering if you can follow through and make an actual case. Ok. Would you argue that men and women are considered in the same way when it comes to what they are expected to do, how they should react given a certain situation, and that they have absolutely equal opportunities no matter what kind of activity they want to engage into? If you do not, please explain why. Personally, the conclusion that I have come to after looking at some of these issues is that human society will never get rid of discrimination without also getting rid of individualism. But that's likely grounds for another debate entirely. The problem I have with feminism defenders is how they never also look at the advantages that sexism would entail for women. Wrong. Entirely wrong. Feminism is all about making people conscious of the prejudice associated with each gender (and men are also subjected to it, the proof being the existence of words such as "man up" or "get some balls" : men are always expected to act strong, tough...) in order for individuals to be more free of doing what they really want to do and being what they really want to be, independently of what the society would like them to be given their gender. In theory. But in practice, tell me, why is no woman complaining that she is far more likely to receive custody of a child after a divorce? Why is no woman complaining about alimony, and the whole legal mechanism surrounding that? Why do they not also fight against the advantages that the same discrimination brings them? Ah, I was waiting for it. The good old custody argument. I do not know about elsewhere, but in France, the reason why custody goes to the mother is for a simple reason : the father is seldom asking for custody. And in case of dispute where the father actually asked for custody (baring from the case of abuse from one side or another on children, obviously), guess what? The numbers between fathers and mothers even out. And I love your generalization "why is no woman...". Hmm. So you know all the feminists in the world? No, of course not. But to say such a thing, you must at least have some data to prove that the vast majority of feminists are fighting against men's right, right? No, not even that? How many feminist authors and intellectuals can you quote? This is just ignorance and prejudice about what feminism is, period. I'm sorry, I'm a cis man, heterosexual, and I do not feel threatened in any way by the feminist manifesto and movements I have read. In fact, I strongly believe that I will benefit from feminism and tha I will have more freedom in my future life thanks to it. Why is so, am I delusional? EDIT : Ugh. Reading the reply above me made my brain hurt. I'd rather watch Life vs Innovation than debate with people that have zero clue of sociology, social determinism, and the general dynamics of human interaction.
You're right, I am ignorant in many respects. If you can provide any articles or theses that go against what I have said, I will take the time and effort to read them, and not just for the sake of furthering this argument, but to see a different perspective.
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United States41928 Posts
On May 02 2013 20:19 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:18 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:13 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:05 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:02 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 edlover420 wrote:On May 02 2013 19:57 DR.Ham wrote:On May 02 2013 19:39 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 19:36 nttea wrote:
Oh my god you guys are unbearable... Seriously a girl gets upset over trolls and you all get a stick up your ass over it, for every girl complaining about sexism there's like 20 dudes complaining about girls complaining over sexism. How about man up? Why is girls complaining about sexism so incredibly important an issue to you that you constantly have to point out how ridiculous you think they are? The replies to this topic so far have been pretty demoralising. Whenever a topic like this comes along I like teamliquid a little less. It's impressive to me that she has the passion for games and such that she is willing to put up with all the bullshit and still produce content. I actually watched few of her videos, since I'm totally bored right now and they are quite awful content wise, I'm pretty sure that if she were a man she wouldn't get 1/10 of the views she has now. Therefore she made her entire carrier based on her gender but don't want to deal with gender difference. That's so so hypocritical... This post is literally "yes she got a load of sexist abuse and harassment but she was asking for it by doing X which encouraged male attention". But do you disagree that women on the internet naturally get a lot more attention for a disproportionately lesser amount of effort put into whatever? Not relevant. Can you not see that he just rationalised sexist abuse because this girl asked for it by doing something other than going "please send me sexist abuse"? If so, how can you not see that? People like him are literally the problem. Just because you say it's not relevant, does not in fact mean it's not relevant. If she gets far more attention and exposure than a male counterpart while doing the same thing, in this case producing web content, it's only mathematically accurate that she will get more negative attention as well, because no matter the viewerbase there will be trolls and haters. Higher viewerbase, more of those. So she's thrown off the deep end in this sense, which is good because either she learns to deal with it more quickly than others would, or she reaches the point of "this is hurting me, I can't continue to do this" sooner. He didn't say putting herself in the public eye made her a target. He said as a woman who did things which men could find attractive she asked for harassment by men. Literally rape culture. I'm not talking about that guy's post. You keep diverting attention from what I'm saying to what that guy's saying. I'm not interested in defending him or his views, I want to know how you feel about women online receiving much more attention for the same amount of effort that a male counterpart would put in.
The custody issue is fucked. As a feminist I am opposed to the default assumption that it goes to the woman.
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On May 02 2013 20:12 Ahelvin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:10 Prevolved wrote:On May 02 2013 20:07 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:05 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:02 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 edlover420 wrote:On May 02 2013 19:57 DR.Ham wrote:On May 02 2013 19:39 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 19:36 nttea wrote:
Oh my god you guys are unbearable... Seriously a girl gets upset over trolls and you all get a stick up your ass over it, for every girl complaining about sexism there's like 20 dudes complaining about girls complaining over sexism. How about man up? Why is girls complaining about sexism so incredibly important an issue to you that you constantly have to point out how ridiculous you think they are? The replies to this topic so far have been pretty demoralising. Whenever a topic like this comes along I like teamliquid a little less. It's impressive to me that she has the passion for games and such that she is willing to put up with all the bullshit and still produce content. I actually watched few of her videos, since I'm totally bored right now and they are quite awful content wise, I'm pretty sure that if she were a man she wouldn't get 1/10 of the views she has now. Therefore she made her entire carrier based on her gender but don't want to deal with gender difference. That's so so hypocritical... This post is literally "yes she got a load of sexist abuse and harassment but she was asking for it by doing X which encouraged male attention". But do you disagree that women on the internet naturally get a lot more attention for a disproportionately lesser amount of effort put into whatever? Not relevant. Can you not see that he just rationalised sexist abuse because this girl asked for it by doing something other than going "please send me sexist abuse"? If so, how can you not see that? People like him are literally the problem. Stop responding to him, he is just acting like this because he is a stupid male. Male are always like that : they want to be right even if it means denying the fundamentals of what constitute reality. + Show Spoiler +How does it feel being disqualified on your gender? Yeah man, because two wrongs make a right. ... Did you even read what I wrote previously? There, let me help you. Wrong. Entirely wrong. Feminism is all about making people conscious of the prejudice associated with each gender (and men are also subjected to it, the proof being the existence of words such as "man up" or "get some balls" : men are always expected to act strong, tough...) in order for individuals to be more free of doing what they really want to do and being what they really want to be, independently of what the society would like them to be given their gender.What people do not also realize is that feminism is not about THREATENING MEN. It's about asking for gender not being a valid basis for prejudice, may it be for men and women. Feminism is also realizing men do not have to "man up" all the time, and have the right to display interest in things that are not "manly". Do you feel comfortable being around jocks constantly reminding you that you are not a real man because you do not watch sports, or workout, or that videogames are for sissies? Then congratulation, you are in some way a feminist. Stop pretending these things do not exist.
That's actually historically untrue. Women were going to be given suffrage in the United States for example well before the 1900s, but they absolutely refused to even contemplate the possibility of having to participate in things such as the military draft and other historically 'male' obligations. Not only that, the feminists of the early 1900s didn't give a flying fuck that men below the age of 21 were dying in World War I in the hundreds of thousands, they just wanted their own right to vote and didn't care. Any notion that feminism ever was about equality is just an illusion that most feminists like to utilize in their arguments, when in reality it isn't at all.
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On May 02 2013 20:28 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:12 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:10 Prevolved wrote:On May 02 2013 20:07 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:05 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:02 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 edlover420 wrote:On May 02 2013 19:57 DR.Ham wrote:On May 02 2013 19:39 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
The replies to this topic so far have been pretty demoralising. Whenever a topic like this comes along I like teamliquid a little less. It's impressive to me that she has the passion for games and such that she is willing to put up with all the bullshit and still produce content. I actually watched few of her videos, since I'm totally bored right now and they are quite awful content wise, I'm pretty sure that if she were a man she wouldn't get 1/10 of the views she has now. Therefore she made her entire carrier based on her gender but don't want to deal with gender difference. That's so so hypocritical... This post is literally "yes she got a load of sexist abuse and harassment but she was asking for it by doing X which encouraged male attention". But do you disagree that women on the internet naturally get a lot more attention for a disproportionately lesser amount of effort put into whatever? Not relevant. Can you not see that he just rationalised sexist abuse because this girl asked for it by doing something other than going "please send me sexist abuse"? If so, how can you not see that? People like him are literally the problem. Stop responding to him, he is just acting like this because he is a stupid male. Male are always like that : they want to be right even if it means denying the fundamentals of what constitute reality. + Show Spoiler +How does it feel being disqualified on your gender? Yeah man, because two wrongs make a right. ... Did you even read what I wrote previously? There, let me help you. Wrong. Entirely wrong. Feminism is all about making people conscious of the prejudice associated with each gender (and men are also subjected to it, the proof being the existence of words such as "man up" or "get some balls" : men are always expected to act strong, tough...) in order for individuals to be more free of doing what they really want to do and being what they really want to be, independently of what the society would like them to be given their gender.What people do not also realize is that feminism is not about THREATENING MEN. It's about asking for gender not being a valid basis for prejudice, may it be for men and women. Feminism is also realizing men do not have to "man up" all the time, and have the right to display interest in things that are not "manly". Do you feel comfortable being around jocks constantly reminding you that you are not a real man because you do not watch sports, or workout, or that videogames are for sissies? Then congratulation, you are in some way a feminist. Stop pretending these things do not exist. That's actually historically untrue. Women were going to be given suffrage in the United States for example well before the 1900s, but they absolutely refused to even contemplate the possibility of having to participate in things such as the military draft and other historically 'male' obligations. Not only that, the feminists of the early 1900s didn't give a flying fuck that men below the age of 21 were dying in World War I in the hundreds of thousands, they just wanted their own right to vote and didn't care. Any notion that feminism ever was about equality is just an illusion that most feminists like to utilize in their arguments, when in reality it isn't at all.
Where do you see a past tense in my post? I said "Feminist IS", not "Feminist WAS, HAS BEEN, or HAS ALWAYS BEEN". When you debate a democrat or a republican, do you debate what people of his or her party said 100 years ago?
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...I hate to butt in, but this is my opinion, and just my opinion alone. I know a lot of nice people. I also know that sometimes they can be insufferable, but so am I sometimes (and I mean both genders, why can't people just be less nasty?!). I'll view that in a gender neutral viewpoint.
The problem is the trolls will eat this up and wiggle their flobby arms in delight, because this is exactly the position (they feel) that they have the high ground. Fucking trolls, there is no high ground on the internet, there is only the shitpile of stupidity. In an ideal world, nobody would have to deal with this crap. However, I'll applaud the woman for standing up for herself. If she can push forward, despite the idiocy, then more power to her.
In short, both genders have nasty people. And trolls on the internet are not limited to men. I must say the majority is male, but female is prevalent as well, especially in social media like face-book and what not.
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On May 02 2013 20:31 Ahelvin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:28 superstartran wrote:On May 02 2013 20:12 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:10 Prevolved wrote:On May 02 2013 20:07 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:05 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:02 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 edlover420 wrote:On May 02 2013 19:57 DR.Ham wrote:
[quote]
It's impressive to me that she has the passion for games and such that she is willing to put up with all the bullshit and still produce content. I actually watched few of her videos, since I'm totally bored right now and they are quite awful content wise, I'm pretty sure that if she were a man she wouldn't get 1/10 of the views she has now. Therefore she made her entire carrier based on her gender but don't want to deal with gender difference. That's so so hypocritical... This post is literally "yes she got a load of sexist abuse and harassment but she was asking for it by doing X which encouraged male attention". But do you disagree that women on the internet naturally get a lot more attention for a disproportionately lesser amount of effort put into whatever? Not relevant. Can you not see that he just rationalised sexist abuse because this girl asked for it by doing something other than going "please send me sexist abuse"? If so, how can you not see that? People like him are literally the problem. Stop responding to him, he is just acting like this because he is a stupid male. Male are always like that : they want to be right even if it means denying the fundamentals of what constitute reality. + Show Spoiler +How does it feel being disqualified on your gender? Yeah man, because two wrongs make a right. ... Did you even read what I wrote previously? There, let me help you. Wrong. Entirely wrong. Feminism is all about making people conscious of the prejudice associated with each gender (and men are also subjected to it, the proof being the existence of words such as "man up" or "get some balls" : men are always expected to act strong, tough...) in order for individuals to be more free of doing what they really want to do and being what they really want to be, independently of what the society would like them to be given their gender.What people do not also realize is that feminism is not about THREATENING MEN. It's about asking for gender not being a valid basis for prejudice, may it be for men and women. Feminism is also realizing men do not have to "man up" all the time, and have the right to display interest in things that are not "manly". Do you feel comfortable being around jocks constantly reminding you that you are not a real man because you do not watch sports, or workout, or that videogames are for sissies? Then congratulation, you are in some way a feminist. Stop pretending these things do not exist. That's actually historically untrue. Women were going to be given suffrage in the United States for example well before the 1900s, but they absolutely refused to even contemplate the possibility of having to participate in things such as the military draft and other historically 'male' obligations. Not only that, the feminists of the early 1900s didn't give a flying fuck that men below the age of 21 were dying in World War I in the hundreds of thousands, they just wanted their own right to vote and didn't care. Any notion that feminism ever was about equality is just an illusion that most feminists like to utilize in their arguments, when in reality it isn't at all. Where do you see a past tense in my post? I said "Feminist IS", not "Feminist WAS, HAS BEEN, or HAS ALWAYS BEEN". When you debate a democrat or a republican, do you debate what people of his or her party said 100 years ago?
You do understand that even today that generally most feminists (I don't have an exact number, but I'm willing to bet 90%+) believe that a man should pay for child support, that he should do this, that, etc. and that the woman actually has all the power in divorce, child alimony, etc. etc.
Not to mention, that feminists even today will fight tooth and nail to prevent women from ever being a part of the draft, despite the fact that they like men have the right to vote. Feminism in general today is a load of bullshit, and it gets exposed big time when you start looking at their positions on child custody, child support, divorce, etc. etc.
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Zurich15310 Posts
On May 02 2013 20:28 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:12 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:10 Prevolved wrote:On May 02 2013 20:07 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:05 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:02 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 edlover420 wrote:On May 02 2013 19:57 DR.Ham wrote:On May 02 2013 19:39 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
The replies to this topic so far have been pretty demoralising. Whenever a topic like this comes along I like teamliquid a little less. It's impressive to me that she has the passion for games and such that she is willing to put up with all the bullshit and still produce content. I actually watched few of her videos, since I'm totally bored right now and they are quite awful content wise, I'm pretty sure that if she were a man she wouldn't get 1/10 of the views she has now. Therefore she made her entire carrier based on her gender but don't want to deal with gender difference. That's so so hypocritical... This post is literally "yes she got a load of sexist abuse and harassment but she was asking for it by doing X which encouraged male attention". But do you disagree that women on the internet naturally get a lot more attention for a disproportionately lesser amount of effort put into whatever? Not relevant. Can you not see that he just rationalised sexist abuse because this girl asked for it by doing something other than going "please send me sexist abuse"? If so, how can you not see that? People like him are literally the problem. Stop responding to him, he is just acting like this because he is a stupid male. Male are always like that : they want to be right even if it means denying the fundamentals of what constitute reality. + Show Spoiler +How does it feel being disqualified on your gender? Yeah man, because two wrongs make a right. ... Did you even read what I wrote previously? There, let me help you. Wrong. Entirely wrong. Feminism is all about making people conscious of the prejudice associated with each gender (and men are also subjected to it, the proof being the existence of words such as "man up" or "get some balls" : men are always expected to act strong, tough...) in order for individuals to be more free of doing what they really want to do and being what they really want to be, independently of what the society would like them to be given their gender.What people do not also realize is that feminism is not about THREATENING MEN. It's about asking for gender not being a valid basis for prejudice, may it be for men and women. Feminism is also realizing men do not have to "man up" all the time, and have the right to display interest in things that are not "manly". Do you feel comfortable being around jocks constantly reminding you that you are not a real man because you do not watch sports, or workout, or that videogames are for sissies? Then congratulation, you are in some way a feminist. Stop pretending these things do not exist. That's actually historically untrue. Women were going to be given suffrage in the United States for example well before the 1900s, but they absolutely refused to even contemplate the possibility of having to participate in things such as the military draft and other historically 'male' obligations. Not only that, the feminists of the early 1900s didn't give a flying fuck that men below the age of 21 were dying in World War I in the hundreds of thousands, they just wanted their own right to vote and didn't care. Any notion that feminism ever was about equality is just an illusion that most feminists like to utilize in their arguments, when in reality it isn't at all.
Feminists a hundred years ago fought for very basic human rights. Of course they didn't care they were not allowed in the military if they weren't even allowed to vote and their husbands could legally beat and rape them. Priorities.
When women were granted basic human rights they did indeed fight for the right to join the military and die in combat.
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I've always advocated simply banning sexist trolls from subreddits. Yeah, they can make a new account, but it still discourages them. But if you suggest this to the reddit community they get high and mighty about free speech. I prefer TL for being better moderated.
In any case, I have no idea why feminism is viewed so negatively on the internet. I had hoped that it would catch on more, but it seems that in many places women's rights are under attack. And on the internet it's so difficult to be female.
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On May 02 2013 20:35 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:31 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:28 superstartran wrote:On May 02 2013 20:12 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:10 Prevolved wrote:On May 02 2013 20:07 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:05 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:02 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 edlover420 wrote:
[quote]
I actually watched few of her videos, since I'm totally bored right now and they are quite awful content wise, I'm pretty sure that if she were a man she wouldn't get 1/10 of the views she has now. Therefore she made her entire carrier based on her gender but don't want to deal with gender difference. That's so so hypocritical... This post is literally "yes she got a load of sexist abuse and harassment but she was asking for it by doing X which encouraged male attention". But do you disagree that women on the internet naturally get a lot more attention for a disproportionately lesser amount of effort put into whatever? Not relevant. Can you not see that he just rationalised sexist abuse because this girl asked for it by doing something other than going "please send me sexist abuse"? If so, how can you not see that? People like him are literally the problem. Stop responding to him, he is just acting like this because he is a stupid male. Male are always like that : they want to be right even if it means denying the fundamentals of what constitute reality. + Show Spoiler +How does it feel being disqualified on your gender? Yeah man, because two wrongs make a right. ... Did you even read what I wrote previously? There, let me help you. Wrong. Entirely wrong. Feminism is all about making people conscious of the prejudice associated with each gender (and men are also subjected to it, the proof being the existence of words such as "man up" or "get some balls" : men are always expected to act strong, tough...) in order for individuals to be more free of doing what they really want to do and being what they really want to be, independently of what the society would like them to be given their gender.What people do not also realize is that feminism is not about THREATENING MEN. It's about asking for gender not being a valid basis for prejudice, may it be for men and women. Feminism is also realizing men do not have to "man up" all the time, and have the right to display interest in things that are not "manly". Do you feel comfortable being around jocks constantly reminding you that you are not a real man because you do not watch sports, or workout, or that videogames are for sissies? Then congratulation, you are in some way a feminist. Stop pretending these things do not exist. That's actually historically untrue. Women were going to be given suffrage in the United States for example well before the 1900s, but they absolutely refused to even contemplate the possibility of having to participate in things such as the military draft and other historically 'male' obligations. Not only that, the feminists of the early 1900s didn't give a flying fuck that men below the age of 21 were dying in World War I in the hundreds of thousands, they just wanted their own right to vote and didn't care. Any notion that feminism ever was about equality is just an illusion that most feminists like to utilize in their arguments, when in reality it isn't at all. Where do you see a past tense in my post? I said "Feminist IS", not "Feminist WAS, HAS BEEN, or HAS ALWAYS BEEN". When you debate a democrat or a republican, do you debate what people of his or her party said 100 years ago? You do understand that even today that generally most feminists (I don't have an exact number, but I'm willing to bet 90%+) believe that a man should pay for child support, that he should do this, that, etc. and that the woman actually has all the power in divorce, child alimony, etc. etc. Not to mention, that feminists even today will fight tooth and nail to prevent women from ever being a part of the draft, despite the fact that they like men have the right to vote.
Exactly. This is why feminists recently fought for the right to defend their country in the Navy Seals !
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Military/2013/0129/Women-could-be-great-Navy-SEALs-says-head-of-Special-Ops
And guess who opposes their presence in the Navy Seals? Veterans of the Navy Seals themselves.
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2013/02/02/debate-swirls-over-female-navy-seals.html
You just made yourself look like an idiot. And I love people pulling numbers out of their buttocks to support their prejudice.
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^@Grumbels That is why I only mostly ever post on Teamliquid. The amount of stupid is too much for me, and even sometimes the stupid slams its hideous abdomen through the wall. Generally, I do hope we are more civilized (mostly...)
For instance, news sites comments make me vomit all over, male and female xenophobic racial comments everywhere. Youtube has roleplayers and racists and stupidity, and reddit is...reddit.
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EPT
