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On May 02 2013 19:21 Goozen wrote:
The only solution is remove anonymity, nothing else will work. The bottom line is that there are 2 kinds of people who obey the law. Those that who do it because its a law, and those who fear the punishment that they will receive from breaking it. As long as this vocal minority isn't forced to receive consequences for their action, they won't change.
And lets face it, it doesn't help that a fair number of women use their sexuality as a tool to gain benefits.
I disagree with removing anonymity, and I was happy that she doesn't ask for that. It would take a valueable tool of freedom of expression away from everyone for the sake of a minority of douchebags.
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On May 02 2013 19:27 FrogOfWar wrote:
Lol, "easily offended". People on a regular basis throwing their most sickening fantasies and insults at her while she's putting up work and passion for what she likes, as a free service to others. Why would she feel uncomfortable with that? Strange!
It's a risk that comes with putting yourself out there on the internet for everyone to see. And please, don't give me "sickening fantasies" when you know just as well as I that 90% of those posts are doing it just for the hell of it, not because they actually give a shit about her. Trolls be trollin', no surprise there.
On May 02 2013 19:27 FrogOfWar wrote:
Think hard and maybe you will see the vast differences. Imagine you're musician and people boo and throw foul fruit at you for no reason. I'm sure you'd just laugh and brush it off. I'll not ask you to imagine that this happens to you as a female musician from an all-male audience and the whole objectification thing, because you're clearly not willing to try.
You're not offering your hard work up to the public when you have bnet find a match, and you're both anonymous, he doesn't have your picture, his comments on your personality are necessarily unfounded, and it is impossible for him to comment on your physicalitiy.
Please don't try to compare some mean comments on the internet to people actually booing you and throwing things at you IN REAL LIFE, while you're physically there and can actually get hurt. Most people will not do that IRL. On the contrary, many people will do that on the Internet, simply because they can; cheap entertainment for them at your expense.
On May 02 2013 19:27 FrogOfWar wrote:
She does deal with it by neither shutting up nor accepting the unacceptable.
But I'd prefer this to be seen as a female perspective on sexism in gaming rather than discussion how smart/ballsy/attractive/whatever this woman is or how manly you are. When your contribution is that things are the way the are, ok, we got that.
Lol. No. She doesn't deal with it. She's just feeding the trolls while at the same time, just like I said above, perpetuating the stereotype that girls are only after attention and drama. It's ironic that she whines about sexism and then portrays several tropes herself, both in playing victim and in trying to draw attention to meaningless drama.
If you seriously think the Internet can change, you must be new here. You really must be, there's no doubt about that. Why doesn't she get some of her more ardent fans to moderate and overlook the comment section or whatever for her? 
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On May 02 2013 19:30 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 19:25 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 19:21 Goozen wrote:
The only solution is remove anonymity, nothing else will work. The bottom line is that there are 2 kinds of people who obey the law. Those that who do it because its a law, and those who fear the punishment that they will receive from breaking it. As long as this vocal minority isn't forced to receive consequences for their action, they won't change.
And lets face it, it doesn't help that a fair number of women use their sexuality as a tool to gain benefits. Please think for 2 seconds before you spot such nonsense, censoring the Internet in its entirety is something nigh on impossible. On May 02 2013 19:22 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:
The Internet is infested with trolls, especially on YouTube. How does this lady not get this? Fucking everyone gets flak on YouTube, even the most beloved of personalities and videos are not safe from the endless waves of trolls.
Nothing to do about it but ignore the trolls or clamp down on free speech. Well, that or taking the discussion to someplace that is actually moderated.
Also, the quoted Reddit posts have an obscene amount of thumbs downs. Why is she using an example that runs directly counter to her point? The thumbs downs are indicative of widespread disapproval of sexism. Also, those things are buried under the more popular answers. Why would she ever want to descend to comment hell in a Reddit thread? It's just a terrible idea, almost every post down there comes from a troll who does NOT speak for anyone but himself, as evidenced by the thumbs downs.
She needs to get a hold of herself and stop screaming "sexism" when what she should really be be complaining about is YouTube's moderation, or maybe a piece on the psychological affects of anonymity. It's funny because in doing so, she is hypocritically and ironically perpetuating the stereotype that most girl gamers just want attention and will try really hard to get it. Before accusing me of "spouting nonsense" think about what i said. I am making the argument that unless you remove anonymity from the web, this won't stop. I didn't say that it needs to be done, only that there is no way to realistic way stop this problem.
My bad. I agree that there is no realistic way to stop this problem. Sorry for jumping on you so eagerly ^^;
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On May 02 2013 19:29 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 19:21 Goozen wrote:
The only solution is remove anonymity, nothing else will work. The bottom line is that there are 2 kinds of people who obey the law. Those that who do it because its a law, and those who fear the punishment that they will receive from breaking it. As long as this vocal minority isn't forced to receive consequences for their action, they won't change.
And lets face it, it doesn't help that a fair number of women use their sexuality as a tool to gain benefits. Then there are teenagers (the main adience of stuff like this?) which often don't give a shit if there is no imminent/direct punishment... Which there never can and will be for stuff like this. These are not even "easy" cases... I mean, where do you draw the line between harsh criticism or some "vulgar language" and ILLEGAL sexism/harrasment? You would need to have a Judge reading over all this and decide case by case... Oh... And your on the Internet, that means these "offenders" can come from any country in the world, witch basically all have diffrent laws... If she (or anyone else) can't deal with it... Then don't do it. It's not like actors or other TV-Persons have it "better", they normally just don't read immediate chat feedback. Your going out there in front of a camera, you will gate rated, insulted and objectified... Deal with it.
I know, thats the problem. There is no way to stop or prevent this, the most that can happen is that moderates remove comments and ban people from youtube. But lets face it, i doubt that will happen also.
Saying "if you can't deal with it, don't do it" is the wrong attitude. Using this logic the police can say "don't wear revealing/ provocative clothing if you don't want to get harassed". There is a problem, there simply isnt much we can do, but blaming her is not the correct action.
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United States43989 Posts
On May 02 2013 19:21 idonthinksobro wrote:
feminism, the art of being a professional victim.
Would you care to expand upon this? As a statement by itself it seems so utterly absurd that I can only conclude that the author of it is a moron of the highest possible order. As a feminist I don't feel I've been an artist or a professional victim but according to your theory I have in fact made an art out of being a professional victim. Now, rather than conclude you either lack the mental capacity to filter out the dumber things you write (and this was a really dumb one) I'm going to assume that you have much more to write on the matter (and it'd take an awful lot) to explain why what you said wasn't the incredibly idiotic thing that it immediately appeared to be.
I eagerly await more of your words.
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Oh my god you guys are unbearable... Seriously a girl gets upset over trolls and you all get a stick up your ass over it, for every girl complaining about sexism there's like 20 dudes complaining about girls complaining over sexism. How about man up? Why is girls complaining about sexism so incredibly important an issue to you that you constantly have to point out how ridiculous you think they are?
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On May 02 2013 19:35 Goozen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 19:29 Velr wrote:On May 02 2013 19:21 Goozen wrote:
The only solution is remove anonymity, nothing else will work. The bottom line is that there are 2 kinds of people who obey the law. Those that who do it because its a law, and those who fear the punishment that they will receive from breaking it. As long as this vocal minority isn't forced to receive consequences for their action, they won't change.
And lets face it, it doesn't help that a fair number of women use their sexuality as a tool to gain benefits. Then there are teenagers (the main adience of stuff like this?) which often don't give a shit if there is no imminent/direct punishment... Which there never can and will be for stuff like this. These are not even "easy" cases... I mean, where do you draw the line between harsh criticism or some "vulgar language" and ILLEGAL sexism/harrasment? You would need to have a Judge reading over all this and decide case by case... Oh... And your on the Internet, that means these "offenders" can come from any country in the world, witch basically all have diffrent laws... If she (or anyone else) can't deal with it... Then don't do it. It's not like actors or other TV-Persons have it "better", they normally just don't read immediate chat feedback. Your going out there in front of a camera, you will gate rated, insulted and objectified... Deal with it. I know, thats the problem. There is no way to stop or prevent this, the most that can happen is that moderates remove comments and ban people from youtube. But lets face it, i doubt that will happen also. Saying "if you can't deal with it, don't do it" is the wrong attitude. Using this logic the police can say "don't wear revealing/ provocative clothing if you don't want to get harassed". There is a problem, there simply isnt much we can do, but blaming her is not the correct action.
I agree, blaming her is not the correct action.
I personally am not blaming her for this happening, although I will blame her for being a hypocrite (see my other posts) and also for dealing with this in the completely wrong way.
Ignore the trolls, get someone to ban/censor them for you, or smite them. Going public with this (as if it's a big deal, as if there aren't thousand of other YouTube and Twitch channels that deal with this shit just as much as her) and playing victim will NOT accomplish Anything AT ALL.
EDIT: Or she can even realize that these trolls still contribute to her page views, video views, channel views etc and by commenting they push her videos higher up the YouTube ladder. So she's basically able to make more money thanks to this negative attention. Could probably try to exploit that instead of getting all pissy.
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United States43989 Posts
On May 02 2013 19:36 nttea wrote:
Oh my god you guys are unbearable... Seriously a girl gets upset over trolls and you all get a stick up your ass over it, for every girl complaining about sexism there's like 20 dudes complaining about girls complaining over sexism. How about man up? Why is girls complaining about sexism so incredibly important an issue to you that you constantly have to point out how ridiculous you think they are?
The replies to this topic so far have been pretty demoralising. Whenever a topic like this comes along I like teamliquid a little less.
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It seems hip to be fighting various issues these days. why can't people just live their lives and lead by example
if they are decent then the people around them are also influenced in a good way and if they don't care possibly issues are not important enough for others, but no they want to force everyone to be like them.
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On May 02 2013 19:39 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 19:36 nttea wrote:
Oh my god you guys are unbearable... Seriously a girl gets upset over trolls and you all get a stick up your ass over it, for every girl complaining about sexism there's like 20 dudes complaining about girls complaining over sexism. How about man up? Why is girls complaining about sexism so incredibly important an issue to you that you constantly have to point out how ridiculous you think they are? The replies to this topic so far have been pretty demoralising. Whenever a topic like this comes along I like teamliquid a little less.
What if, bear with me here even though it's an absurd proposition, what if it was a man that made this post, to receive the same replies? Would you feel the same way? Or is it just due to personal bias?
Trolls are still trolls, whether you're male or female, the only thing that's different is that it's easier to get noticed by trolls if you're a girl/woman. But in either case, giving them attention is a no-no.
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I don't "blame" her for not liking it. If she would, she would be pretty strange ^^. I blame her for making this about Sexism (which it isn't... The common "insults/trolls/whatever" just change depending on Gender/Race/Built/...) and writing a big article about it.
And compairing this to "real live" harassment is just very, very bad. Internet "harassment" is "inconvinient" and thats it... Even "reading" it is optional... If you can't deal with it, don't sit in front of the camera. Real life harassment is worse... Much, much worse, in real life, you can't just close your browser and everything goes away....
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KwarK you don't get it. Her complaining is the same as it would be if I complained for every time I get flamed after starcraft match by my opponent. It's pointless. Unless you hold her to the different standards because she's a female. Than you are the most sexist person here.
Also you're tone with idontthinksobro was extremely hateful and it's pretty uncalled for.
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United States43989 Posts
On May 02 2013 19:37 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 19:35 Goozen wrote:On May 02 2013 19:29 Velr wrote:On May 02 2013 19:21 Goozen wrote:
The only solution is remove anonymity, nothing else will work. The bottom line is that there are 2 kinds of people who obey the law. Those that who do it because its a law, and those who fear the punishment that they will receive from breaking it. As long as this vocal minority isn't forced to receive consequences for their action, they won't change.
And lets face it, it doesn't help that a fair number of women use their sexuality as a tool to gain benefits. Then there are teenagers (the main adience of stuff like this?) which often don't give a shit if there is no imminent/direct punishment... Which there never can and will be for stuff like this. These are not even "easy" cases... I mean, where do you draw the line between harsh criticism or some "vulgar language" and ILLEGAL sexism/harrasment? You would need to have a Judge reading over all this and decide case by case... Oh... And your on the Internet, that means these "offenders" can come from any country in the world, witch basically all have diffrent laws... If she (or anyone else) can't deal with it... Then don't do it. It's not like actors or other TV-Persons have it "better", they normally just don't read immediate chat feedback. Your going out there in front of a camera, you will gate rated, insulted and objectified... Deal with it. I know, thats the problem. There is no way to stop or prevent this, the most that can happen is that moderates remove comments and ban people from youtube. But lets face it, i doubt that will happen also. Saying "if you can't deal with it, don't do it" is the wrong attitude. Using this logic the police can say "don't wear revealing/ provocative clothing if you don't want to get harassed". There is a problem, there simply isnt much we can do, but blaming her is not the correct action. I agree, blaming her is not the correct action. I personally am not blaming her for this happening, although I will blame her for being a hypocrite (see my other posts) and also for dealing with this in the completely wrong way. Ignore the trolls, get someone to ban/censor them for you, or smite them. Going public with this (as if it's a big deal, as if there aren't thousand of other YouTube and Twitch channels that deal with this shit just as much as her) and playing victim will NOT accomplish Anything AT ALL. EDIT: Or she can even realize that these trolls still contribute to her page views, video views, channel views etc and by commenting they push her videos higher up the YouTube ladder. So she's basically able to make more money thanks to this negative attention. Could probably try to exploit that instead of getting all pissy.
You realise that women are trained from an early age not to cause a scene when men do things they're not comfortable. That it's just boys being boys and they should just put up with it, from leering to catcalling all the way up to harassment. That if a woman actually says "why don't you just fuck off" then suddenly she's hormonal, overreacting and a bitch. People blame women for rape when they don't fight enough or say "no" loudly enough and they call them attention seekers when they call out harassment. It's a no win situation.
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You seem to have grown up at a strange place then...
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On May 02 2013 19:36 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 19:21 idonthinksobro wrote:
feminism, the art of being a professional victim. Would you care to expand upon this? As a statement by itself it seems so utterly absurd that I can only conclude that the author of it is a moron of the highest possible order. As a feminist I don't feel I've been an artist or a professional victim but according to your theory I have in fact made an art out of being a professional victim. Now, rather than conclude you either lack the mental capacity to filter out the dumber things you write (and this was a really dumb one) I'm going to assume that you have much more to write on the matter (and it'd take an awful lot) to explain why what you said wasn't the incredibly idiotic thing that it immediately appeared to be. I eagerly await more of your words.
Show'em KwarK.
What feminists have been trying to highlight are the mechanisms through which society can make discourage women from pursuing certain types of careers, certain aspirations in life, or just encourage them to repress behaviors they would otherwise like to have.
A prime example of why sexism is particularly prominent in the gaming community :
http://www.policymic.com/articles/37557/aisha-tyler-to-haters-i-don-t-need-to-do-it-for-the-money.
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On May 02 2013 19:44 edlover420 wrote:
KwarK you don't get it. Her complaining is the same as it would be if I complained for every time I get flamed after starcraft match by my opponent. It's pointless. Unless you hold her to the different standards because she's a female. Than you are the most sexist person here.
Also you're tone with idontthinksobro was extremely hateful and it's pretty uncalled for.
It is not the same if you are constantly attacked for your race, gender religion. I thought we got over that discussion a few hundred years ago.
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Zurich15365 Posts
On May 02 2013 19:44 edlover420 wrote:
Also you're tone with idontthinksobro was extremely hateful and it's pretty uncalled for.
Going to back up KwarK here, within boundaries it should be fair game to be hateful towards complete morons on TL.
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On May 02 2013 19:44 edlover420 wrote:
KwarK you don't get it. Her complaining is the same as it would be if I complained for every time I get flamed after starcraft match by my opponent. It's pointless. Unless you hold her to the different standards because she's a female. Than you are the most sexist person here.
Also you're tone with idontthinksobro was extremely hateful and it's pretty uncalled for.
You can't compare sexual harassment, even online to that of getting flamed at the end of a starcraft. The point is, had she been a man, this wouldn't happen, and its not fair that because she wants to do what she enjoys she should be assaulted because of her sex.
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United States43989 Posts
On May 02 2013 19:46 Velr wrote:
You seem to have grown up at a strange place then...
Unfortunately it's called reality. Fortunately your privilege allows you to live in a different one. Unfortunately that doesn't invalidate the experiences of women.
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I like how one in this thread called this "attention seeking blog". Ah the sexism shines through like a bright light.. Can you tell me any blog you can point to that is not in its nature attention seeking. I think if you post anything on the internet you are attention seeking. Wow look at all the news posts on this site, how attention seeking. I liked your attention seeking post btw.
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EPT
