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On May 02 2013 20:35 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:28 superstartran wrote:On May 02 2013 20:12 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:10 Prevolved wrote:On May 02 2013 20:07 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:05 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:02 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 edlover420 wrote:On May 02 2013 19:57 DR.Ham wrote:
[quote]
It's impressive to me that she has the passion for games and such that she is willing to put up with all the bullshit and still produce content. I actually watched few of her videos, since I'm totally bored right now and they are quite awful content wise, I'm pretty sure that if she were a man she wouldn't get 1/10 of the views she has now. Therefore she made her entire carrier based on her gender but don't want to deal with gender difference. That's so so hypocritical... This post is literally "yes she got a load of sexist abuse and harassment but she was asking for it by doing X which encouraged male attention". But do you disagree that women on the internet naturally get a lot more attention for a disproportionately lesser amount of effort put into whatever? Not relevant. Can you not see that he just rationalised sexist abuse because this girl asked for it by doing something other than going "please send me sexist abuse"? If so, how can you not see that? People like him are literally the problem. Stop responding to him, he is just acting like this because he is a stupid male. Male are always like that : they want to be right even if it means denying the fundamentals of what constitute reality. + Show Spoiler +How does it feel being disqualified on your gender? Yeah man, because two wrongs make a right. ... Did you even read what I wrote previously? There, let me help you. Wrong. Entirely wrong. Feminism is all about making people conscious of the prejudice associated with each gender (and men are also subjected to it, the proof being the existence of words such as "man up" or "get some balls" : men are always expected to act strong, tough...) in order for individuals to be more free of doing what they really want to do and being what they really want to be, independently of what the society would like them to be given their gender.What people do not also realize is that feminism is not about THREATENING MEN. It's about asking for gender not being a valid basis for prejudice, may it be for men and women. Feminism is also realizing men do not have to "man up" all the time, and have the right to display interest in things that are not "manly". Do you feel comfortable being around jocks constantly reminding you that you are not a real man because you do not watch sports, or workout, or that videogames are for sissies? Then congratulation, you are in some way a feminist. Stop pretending these things do not exist. That's actually historically untrue. Women were going to be given suffrage in the United States for example well before the 1900s, but they absolutely refused to even contemplate the possibility of having to participate in things such as the military draft and other historically 'male' obligations. Not only that, the feminists of the early 1900s didn't give a flying fuck that men below the age of 21 were dying in World War I in the hundreds of thousands, they just wanted their own right to vote and didn't care. Any notion that feminism ever was about equality is just an illusion that most feminists like to utilize in their arguments, when in reality it isn't at all. Feminists a hundred years ago fought for very basic human rights. Of course they didn't care they were not allowed in the military if they weren't even allowed to vote and their husbands could legally beat and rape them. Priorities. When women were granted basic human rights they did indeed fight for the right to join the military and die in combat.
It was contemplated by several congressional members during the time period that women were to be given the right to vote IF they would participate in the military. Feminists shot that shit down instantly and said no, we refuse to take part in the military we only want the right to vote. Believing that women were denied voting for so long in the United States just because is a load of nonsense. They wanted the right to vote without any other obligations that males historically had, such as military draft, economic and legal responsibilities, etc.
Loads of male politicians wanted women to vote. They are easily by far the most easy to sway group.
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United States41932 Posts
On May 02 2013 20:35 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:31 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:28 superstartran wrote:On May 02 2013 20:12 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:10 Prevolved wrote:On May 02 2013 20:07 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:05 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:02 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 edlover420 wrote:
[quote]
I actually watched few of her videos, since I'm totally bored right now and they are quite awful content wise, I'm pretty sure that if she were a man she wouldn't get 1/10 of the views she has now. Therefore she made her entire carrier based on her gender but don't want to deal with gender difference. That's so so hypocritical... This post is literally "yes she got a load of sexist abuse and harassment but she was asking for it by doing X which encouraged male attention". But do you disagree that women on the internet naturally get a lot more attention for a disproportionately lesser amount of effort put into whatever? Not relevant. Can you not see that he just rationalised sexist abuse because this girl asked for it by doing something other than going "please send me sexist abuse"? If so, how can you not see that? People like him are literally the problem. Stop responding to him, he is just acting like this because he is a stupid male. Male are always like that : they want to be right even if it means denying the fundamentals of what constitute reality. + Show Spoiler +How does it feel being disqualified on your gender? Yeah man, because two wrongs make a right. ... Did you even read what I wrote previously? There, let me help you. Wrong. Entirely wrong. Feminism is all about making people conscious of the prejudice associated with each gender (and men are also subjected to it, the proof being the existence of words such as "man up" or "get some balls" : men are always expected to act strong, tough...) in order for individuals to be more free of doing what they really want to do and being what they really want to be, independently of what the society would like them to be given their gender.What people do not also realize is that feminism is not about THREATENING MEN. It's about asking for gender not being a valid basis for prejudice, may it be for men and women. Feminism is also realizing men do not have to "man up" all the time, and have the right to display interest in things that are not "manly". Do you feel comfortable being around jocks constantly reminding you that you are not a real man because you do not watch sports, or workout, or that videogames are for sissies? Then congratulation, you are in some way a feminist. Stop pretending these things do not exist. That's actually historically untrue. Women were going to be given suffrage in the United States for example well before the 1900s, but they absolutely refused to even contemplate the possibility of having to participate in things such as the military draft and other historically 'male' obligations. Not only that, the feminists of the early 1900s didn't give a flying fuck that men below the age of 21 were dying in World War I in the hundreds of thousands, they just wanted their own right to vote and didn't care. Any notion that feminism ever was about equality is just an illusion that most feminists like to utilize in their arguments, when in reality it isn't at all. Where do you see a past tense in my post? I said "Feminist IS", not "Feminist WAS, HAS BEEN, or HAS ALWAYS BEEN". When you debate a democrat or a republican, do you debate what people of his or her party said 100 years ago? You do understand that even today that generally most feminists (I don't have an exact number, but I'm willing to bet 90%+) believe that a man should pay for child support, that he should do this, that, etc. and that the woman actually has all the power in divorce, child alimony, etc. etc. Not to mention, that feminists even today will fight tooth and nail to prevent women from ever being a part of the draft, despite the fact that they like men have the right to vote. Feminism in general today is a load of bullshit, and it gets exposed big time when you start looking at their positions on child custody, child support, divorce, etc. etc.
I don't recall ever fighting tooth and nail for that. Is it possible that feminists aren't a homogenous block?
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Zurich15310 Posts
On May 02 2013 20:35 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:31 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:28 superstartran wrote:On May 02 2013 20:12 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:10 Prevolved wrote:On May 02 2013 20:07 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:05 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:02 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 edlover420 wrote:
[quote]
I actually watched few of her videos, since I'm totally bored right now and they are quite awful content wise, I'm pretty sure that if she were a man she wouldn't get 1/10 of the views she has now. Therefore she made her entire carrier based on her gender but don't want to deal with gender difference. That's so so hypocritical... This post is literally "yes she got a load of sexist abuse and harassment but she was asking for it by doing X which encouraged male attention". But do you disagree that women on the internet naturally get a lot more attention for a disproportionately lesser amount of effort put into whatever? Not relevant. Can you not see that he just rationalised sexist abuse because this girl asked for it by doing something other than going "please send me sexist abuse"? If so, how can you not see that? People like him are literally the problem. Stop responding to him, he is just acting like this because he is a stupid male. Male are always like that : they want to be right even if it means denying the fundamentals of what constitute reality. + Show Spoiler +How does it feel being disqualified on your gender? Yeah man, because two wrongs make a right. ... Did you even read what I wrote previously? There, let me help you. Wrong. Entirely wrong. Feminism is all about making people conscious of the prejudice associated with each gender (and men are also subjected to it, the proof being the existence of words such as "man up" or "get some balls" : men are always expected to act strong, tough...) in order for individuals to be more free of doing what they really want to do and being what they really want to be, independently of what the society would like them to be given their gender.What people do not also realize is that feminism is not about THREATENING MEN. It's about asking for gender not being a valid basis for prejudice, may it be for men and women. Feminism is also realizing men do not have to "man up" all the time, and have the right to display interest in things that are not "manly". Do you feel comfortable being around jocks constantly reminding you that you are not a real man because you do not watch sports, or workout, or that videogames are for sissies? Then congratulation, you are in some way a feminist. Stop pretending these things do not exist. That's actually historically untrue. Women were going to be given suffrage in the United States for example well before the 1900s, but they absolutely refused to even contemplate the possibility of having to participate in things such as the military draft and other historically 'male' obligations. Not only that, the feminists of the early 1900s didn't give a flying fuck that men below the age of 21 were dying in World War I in the hundreds of thousands, they just wanted their own right to vote and didn't care. Any notion that feminism ever was about equality is just an illusion that most feminists like to utilize in their arguments, when in reality it isn't at all. Where do you see a past tense in my post? I said "Feminist IS", not "Feminist WAS, HAS BEEN, or HAS ALWAYS BEEN". When you debate a democrat or a republican, do you debate what people of his or her party said 100 years ago? You do understand that even today that generally most feminists (I don't have an exact number, but I'm willing to bet 90%+) believe that a man should pay for child support, that he should do this, that, etc. and that the woman actually has all the power in divorce, child alimony, etc. etc. Not to mention, that feminists even today will fight tooth and nail to prevent women from ever being a part of the draft, despite the fact that they like men have the right to vote. Feminism in general today is a load of bullshit, and it gets exposed big time when you start looking at their positions on child custody, child support, divorce, etc. etc.
Alright this is simply completely wrong.
Feminism is by definition about gender equality. Feminists oppose all of the things you just listed.
You seem to mix up the terms "women" and "feminists" a lot I believe.
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On May 02 2013 20:40 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:35 zatic wrote:On May 02 2013 20:28 superstartran wrote:On May 02 2013 20:12 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:10 Prevolved wrote:On May 02 2013 20:07 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:05 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:02 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 edlover420 wrote:
[quote]
I actually watched few of her videos, since I'm totally bored right now and they are quite awful content wise, I'm pretty sure that if she were a man she wouldn't get 1/10 of the views she has now. Therefore she made her entire carrier based on her gender but don't want to deal with gender difference. That's so so hypocritical... This post is literally "yes she got a load of sexist abuse and harassment but she was asking for it by doing X which encouraged male attention". But do you disagree that women on the internet naturally get a lot more attention for a disproportionately lesser amount of effort put into whatever? Not relevant. Can you not see that he just rationalised sexist abuse because this girl asked for it by doing something other than going "please send me sexist abuse"? If so, how can you not see that? People like him are literally the problem. Stop responding to him, he is just acting like this because he is a stupid male. Male are always like that : they want to be right even if it means denying the fundamentals of what constitute reality. + Show Spoiler +How does it feel being disqualified on your gender? Yeah man, because two wrongs make a right. ... Did you even read what I wrote previously? There, let me help you. Wrong. Entirely wrong. Feminism is all about making people conscious of the prejudice associated with each gender (and men are also subjected to it, the proof being the existence of words such as "man up" or "get some balls" : men are always expected to act strong, tough...) in order for individuals to be more free of doing what they really want to do and being what they really want to be, independently of what the society would like them to be given their gender.What people do not also realize is that feminism is not about THREATENING MEN. It's about asking for gender not being a valid basis for prejudice, may it be for men and women. Feminism is also realizing men do not have to "man up" all the time, and have the right to display interest in things that are not "manly". Do you feel comfortable being around jocks constantly reminding you that you are not a real man because you do not watch sports, or workout, or that videogames are for sissies? Then congratulation, you are in some way a feminist. Stop pretending these things do not exist. That's actually historically untrue. Women were going to be given suffrage in the United States for example well before the 1900s, but they absolutely refused to even contemplate the possibility of having to participate in things such as the military draft and other historically 'male' obligations. Not only that, the feminists of the early 1900s didn't give a flying fuck that men below the age of 21 were dying in World War I in the hundreds of thousands, they just wanted their own right to vote and didn't care. Any notion that feminism ever was about equality is just an illusion that most feminists like to utilize in their arguments, when in reality it isn't at all. Feminists a hundred years ago fought for very basic human rights. Of course they didn't care they were not allowed in the military if they weren't even allowed to vote and their husbands could legally beat and rape them. Priorities. When women were granted basic human rights they did indeed fight for the right to join the military and die in combat. It was contemplated by several congressional members during the time period that women were to be given the right to vote IF they would participate in the military. Feminists shot that shit down instantly and said no, we refuse to take part in the military we only want the right to vote. Believing that women were denied voting for so long in the United States just because is a load of nonsense. They wanted the right to vote without any other obligations that males historically had, such as military draft, economic and legal responsibilities, etc. Loads of male politicians wanted women to vote. They are easily by far the most easy to sway group.
I love how you ignored my post. Please, tell me about your great grandfather's opinion, so that can use that as a rebuttal against your present argument.
On May 02 2013 20:41 zatic wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:35 superstartran wrote:On May 02 2013 20:31 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:28 superstartran wrote:On May 02 2013 20:12 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:10 Prevolved wrote:On May 02 2013 20:07 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:05 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:02 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
This post is literally "yes she got a load of sexist abuse and harassment but she was asking for it by doing X which encouraged male attention". But do you disagree that women on the internet naturally get a lot more attention for a disproportionately lesser amount of effort put into whatever? Not relevant. Can you not see that he just rationalised sexist abuse because this girl asked for it by doing something other than going "please send me sexist abuse"? If so, how can you not see that? People like him are literally the problem. Stop responding to him, he is just acting like this because he is a stupid male. Male are always like that : they want to be right even if it means denying the fundamentals of what constitute reality. + Show Spoiler +How does it feel being disqualified on your gender? Yeah man, because two wrongs make a right. ... Did you even read what I wrote previously? There, let me help you. Wrong. Entirely wrong. Feminism is all about making people conscious of the prejudice associated with each gender (and men are also subjected to it, the proof being the existence of words such as "man up" or "get some balls" : men are always expected to act strong, tough...) in order for individuals to be more free of doing what they really want to do and being what they really want to be, independently of what the society would like them to be given their gender.What people do not also realize is that feminism is not about THREATENING MEN. It's about asking for gender not being a valid basis for prejudice, may it be for men and women. Feminism is also realizing men do not have to "man up" all the time, and have the right to display interest in things that are not "manly". Do you feel comfortable being around jocks constantly reminding you that you are not a real man because you do not watch sports, or workout, or that videogames are for sissies? Then congratulation, you are in some way a feminist. Stop pretending these things do not exist. That's actually historically untrue. Women were going to be given suffrage in the United States for example well before the 1900s, but they absolutely refused to even contemplate the possibility of having to participate in things such as the military draft and other historically 'male' obligations. Not only that, the feminists of the early 1900s didn't give a flying fuck that men below the age of 21 were dying in World War I in the hundreds of thousands, they just wanted their own right to vote and didn't care. Any notion that feminism ever was about equality is just an illusion that most feminists like to utilize in their arguments, when in reality it isn't at all. Where do you see a past tense in my post? I said "Feminist IS", not "Feminist WAS, HAS BEEN, or HAS ALWAYS BEEN". When you debate a democrat or a republican, do you debate what people of his or her party said 100 years ago? You do understand that even today that generally most feminists (I don't have an exact number, but I'm willing to bet 90%+) believe that a man should pay for child support, that he should do this, that, etc. and that the woman actually has all the power in divorce, child alimony, etc. etc. Not to mention, that feminists even today will fight tooth and nail to prevent women from ever being a part of the draft, despite the fact that they like men have the right to vote. Feminism in general today is a load of bullshit, and it gets exposed big time when you start looking at their positions on child custody, child support, divorce, etc. etc. Alright this is simply completely wrong. Feminism is by definition about gender equality. Feminists oppose all of the things you just listed. You seem to mix up the terms "women" and "feminists" a lot I believe.
Just ignore him, I linked him to a newspaper article explaining how feminist groups want the women to be able to join the Navy Seals, and he ignored it...
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Zurich15310 Posts
On May 02 2013 20:40 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:35 zatic wrote:On May 02 2013 20:28 superstartran wrote:On May 02 2013 20:12 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:10 Prevolved wrote:On May 02 2013 20:07 Ahelvin wrote:On May 02 2013 20:05 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:03 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On May 02 2013 20:02 KwarK wrote:On May 02 2013 20:01 edlover420 wrote:
[quote]
I actually watched few of her videos, since I'm totally bored right now and they are quite awful content wise, I'm pretty sure that if she were a man she wouldn't get 1/10 of the views she has now. Therefore she made her entire carrier based on her gender but don't want to deal with gender difference. That's so so hypocritical... This post is literally "yes she got a load of sexist abuse and harassment but she was asking for it by doing X which encouraged male attention". But do you disagree that women on the internet naturally get a lot more attention for a disproportionately lesser amount of effort put into whatever? Not relevant. Can you not see that he just rationalised sexist abuse because this girl asked for it by doing something other than going "please send me sexist abuse"? If so, how can you not see that? People like him are literally the problem. Stop responding to him, he is just acting like this because he is a stupid male. Male are always like that : they want to be right even if it means denying the fundamentals of what constitute reality. + Show Spoiler +How does it feel being disqualified on your gender? Yeah man, because two wrongs make a right. ... Did you even read what I wrote previously? There, let me help you. Wrong. Entirely wrong. Feminism is all about making people conscious of the prejudice associated with each gender (and men are also subjected to it, the proof being the existence of words such as "man up" or "get some balls" : men are always expected to act strong, tough...) in order for individuals to be more free of doing what they really want to do and being what they really want to be, independently of what the society would like them to be given their gender.What people do not also realize is that feminism is not about THREATENING MEN. It's about asking for gender not being a valid basis for prejudice, may it be for men and women. Feminism is also realizing men do not have to "man up" all the time, and have the right to display interest in things that are not "manly". Do you feel comfortable being around jocks constantly reminding you that you are not a real man because you do not watch sports, or workout, or that videogames are for sissies? Then congratulation, you are in some way a feminist. Stop pretending these things do not exist. That's actually historically untrue. Women were going to be given suffrage in the United States for example well before the 1900s, but they absolutely refused to even contemplate the possibility of having to participate in things such as the military draft and other historically 'male' obligations. Not only that, the feminists of the early 1900s didn't give a flying fuck that men below the age of 21 were dying in World War I in the hundreds of thousands, they just wanted their own right to vote and didn't care. Any notion that feminism ever was about equality is just an illusion that most feminists like to utilize in their arguments, when in reality it isn't at all. Feminists a hundred years ago fought for very basic human rights. Of course they didn't care they were not allowed in the military if they weren't even allowed to vote and their husbands could legally beat and rape them. Priorities. When women were granted basic human rights they did indeed fight for the right to join the military and die in combat. It was contemplated by several congressional members during the time period that women were to be given the right to vote IF they would participate in the military. Feminists shot that shit down instantly and said no, we refuse to take part in the military we only want the right to vote. Believing that women were denied voting for so long in the United States just because is a load of nonsense. They wanted the right to vote without any other obligations that males historically had, such as military draft, economic and legal responsibilities, etc. Loads of male politicians wanted women to vote. They are easily by far the most easy to sway group.
Luckily, these times are behind us and women enjoy basic human right today. So today we can actually start talking about equality. I and I believe most of us here would appreciate it if you use arguments that are valid today.
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United States41932 Posts
Also for the record it was a feminist who introduced the "tender years" doctrine in which the children went to the mother and whenever other feminists suggest that child custody issues are part of the patriarchy I get very pissed off with their ignorance and even more with the assumption that when men are in charge they actively choose to not look after/see their children. Feminism today is a very broad movement with a lot of internal conflict, picking something one feminist did and using it to bash another is idiotic.
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Getting trolled on the internet as a content creator (especially on YouTube) is nothing new, that it's amplified because she is a female is sad to see but to be expected.
She disabled every comment section and like/dislike bar so it seems like trolls really get to her. I personally think if you don't have a thick skin don't post videos on YouTube or you'll feel miserable in a pretty short amount of time.
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I am shocked, disgusted, and offended by some of the responses here. I wanted to say something more substantive, but I can't. I am too upset to put something together.
I guess I will just say: thanks to the op for the post, and to Alanah Pearce for the article. The women and girls who are subjected to this are us, our sisters, our mothers, and our daughters. I hope those of you who are having a more involved conversation on here can keep a cool enough head to get something out of it. I can't.
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the amount of white knighting in this thread is disgusting
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On May 02 2013 20:49 Caller wrote:
the amount of white knighting in this thread is disgusting
Yes how dare men defend the others, it's us versus them.
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Feminism is one of the most misunderstood and vilified terms in modern politics. I know several people who would never call themselves feminists because the term is so loaded and toxic, but when you actually ask them about core feminist issues like equal pay, right to choose, anti-discrimination laws, protection from sexual harassment in the workplace/school etc, they are all aboard.
The challenge generally is not to make people agree with (most)feminist agendas, instead it's getting them to understand that fighting for them is what actually constitutes feminism in the first place. The women, and men, who fought for the right to vote, the right to control their own bodies, the right to participate in government and positions of power, they were all feminists by definition. Yet few people recognise or even comprehend this, they see it as an excuse for angry shrews to bitch and moan.
Whenever I'm asked about this I always say; "yes I am a feminist, and so are you, even if you don't know it."
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On May 02 2013 20:49 Caller wrote:
the amount of white knighting in this thread is disgusting
The amount of thought terminating clichés in your reply is disgusting.
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United States41932 Posts
On May 02 2013 20:49 Caller wrote:
the amount of white knighting in this thread is disgusting
I care about these issues independently of women as part of my broad humanist stance on not being a colossal dick. But I'm sure your white knight based critique of the issue had a lot of intellectual weight behind it. Please, tell us more.
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dam there is so much hate vs women on the internet.
if you arn't a feminist you are a bigot. This should be an uncontroversial fact.
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Once again another case where a female gamer tries to bring up the cancer of Sexism and Misogyny that is constantly ripping through communities on the Internet. And once again she is met by the 'grow up or go home' defense of the pseudo-intellectual MRAs of TL.net
Firstly, let us stop with the bullshit "It is the Internet" apologia for the behavior of males in the gaming community. What the hell does "it is the internet' actually mean? What is it about the structures of the internet that allow people to believe they can do this? It isn't anonymity, as most people tend to think it is. The idea of anonymity (as well as the various problems it incites) has been around for a long time. Plato, the Greek Philosopher, discusses it in his 'The Republic', and Schopenhauer, a German writer of the German Romanticist era talks about it in an essay on literary criticism. However the use of anonymity for dastardly deeds is somewhat higher on the internet then it is in the non-virtual world. There seems to be an implicit acceptance of the sexist and misogynistic behavior that occurs, in particular, on these forums, which is hidden behind tis idea that the internet exists in an ethereal realm outside of reality. If you believe this you are an idiot. If you also think that the only fix is getting rid of anonymity then you are also an idiot. But as this thread has shown, there are a lot of idiots.
I am of the opinion that if enough people seek to change something, then change will occur. If people stand up to the bully in the playground then the bully will become powerless. Trolls are anonymous bullies (most of them are also idiots). As a community we should acknowledge the troll and drive them out with fire and pitchforks. Burning their metaphorical bodies on a pile of wood. Most people at this suggestion will say "but if we do that, the troll wins". No, That is complete bullshit, we must reject this logic. We must look upon the troll like a bug that has infected our computers, inhibiting our ability to live a fulfilling life and say to that piece of shit "NOT TODAY!" As a community we must stand together against this kind of bullshit. Against not only sexism, but also Racism and Homophobia. The troll, the attention seeking parasite has no power against those who do not accept the premiss of the troll.
I personally think that Alanah, in writing her piece, has shown more backbone then those who choose to ignore the issue of harassment in the community. It is a problem, it is also an embarrassment. We want this community to grow, but when we act like the bunch of ignorant dickheads that seems to occur when a female enters the room we show the non-virtual world how utterly childish we are.
We should not be discussing the meta-philosophical debates of feminism or what they stand for. That is not exactly for us to discuss. We should discuss how we can better accept female gamers into our community, into the greater gaming community. Gender Issues do not have a place in a forum on Starcraft and DotA, there is no need for them.
The question is just one: Do we, as a community, have a gall to stand up to bullshit, or are we going to fade into obscurity and conservatism? It is only as a unified community that we can fight this.
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United States41932 Posts
On May 02 2013 20:54 stroggozz wrote:
dam there is so much hate vs women on the internet.
if you arn't a feminist you are a bigot. This should be an uncontroversial fact.
Or simply ignorant of feminism. I think an awful lot of people have no real clue about the issues. The fact that they deliberately wallow in their ignorance is also somewhat problematic.
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On May 02 2013 20:51 McBengt wrote:
Feminism is one of the most misunderstood and vilified terms in modern politics. I know several people who would never call themselves feminists because the term is so loaded and toxic, but when you actually ask them about core feminist issues like equal pay, right to choose, anti-discrimination laws, protection from sexual harassment in the workplace/school etc, they are all aboard.
It's generally the extremists who ruin the reputation of an ideology, current or other set of moral values and notions, and it's sadly the same extremists who receive the most media coverage and attention.
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United States41932 Posts
On May 02 2013 20:55 Phil0s0pher wrote:
We should not be discussing the meta-philosophical debates of feminism or what they stand for. That is not exactly for us to discuss. We should discuss how we can better accept female gamers into our community, into the greater gaming community. Gender Issues do not have a place in a forum on Starcraft and DotA, there is no need for them.
You think there is no connection between the way that men treat women online and the way they treat them offline? In the first three pages this topic went through "boys will be boys", "she's overreacting", "she just wants attention" and "she was asking for abuse by being a woman who men are aware of". The immediate responses sexist men are giving here are entirely representative of the behavior of men generally which comes down to feminism and gender theory. The problems she is experiencing online are rooted in the same shit that leads to rape apologism.
If you think you can view this in isolation then you just don't get it.
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United States41932 Posts
On May 02 2013 20:57 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2013 20:51 McBengt wrote:
Feminism is one of the most misunderstood and vilified terms in modern politics. I know several people who would never call themselves feminists because the term is so loaded and toxic, but when you actually ask them about core feminist issues like equal pay, right to choose, anti-discrimination laws, protection from sexual harassment in the workplace/school etc, they are all aboard.
It's generally the extremists who ruin the reputation of an ideology, current or other set of moral values and notions, and it's sadly the same extremists who receive the most media coverage and attention.
This I'll agree with.
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On May 02 2013 20:51 McBengt wrote:
Feminism is one of the most misunderstood and vilified terms in modern politics. I know several people who would never call themselves feminists because the term is so loaded and toxic, but when you actually ask them about core feminist issues like equal pay, right to choose, anti-discrimination laws, protection from sexual harassment in the workplace/school etc, they are all aboard.
The challenge generally is not to make people agree with (most)feminist agendas, instead it's getting them to understand that fighting for them is what actually constitutes feminism in the first place. The women, and men, who fought for the right to vote, the right to control their own bodies, the right to participate in government and positions of power, they were all feminists by definition. Yet few people recognise or even comprehend this, they see it as an excuse for angry shrews to bitch and moan.
Whenever I'm asked about this I always say; "yes I am a feminist, and so are you, even if you don't know it."
While I somewhat agree with what you say, whats the difference between "feminism" and "equality" (between sexes) then? The word feminism is kinda missleading in that case, since it quite clearly indicates its about something related to..... females.
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EPT
