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On August 01 2013 04:39 fugs wrote:
Being trans and mentally disabled makes reading these arguments very uncomfortable. Believe it or not, telling a trans person that they're infertile/not real/mentally challenged is a really mean thing to do. You don't walk up to some cancer patient and point out their infertility do you? Why do so many people think it's okay to tell trans people, to their face, things you'd never tell any other individual?
Whether you believe it's 'right' or 'wrong' for me to use the bathroom I feel comfortable in, or to wear the clothes I think are cute, date the people I am attracted to is not going to stop me. Your discomfort is a product of your own design and I'm not responsible for it.
As for all the understanding people posting, thank you, I wish others were more like you.
Because some people are not up to date with modern medical research, or chose to ignore it in the name of tradition.
Not to mention, white straight males will naturally try to preserve their privilege as much as possible, and oppressing people that are different is one way of doing it.
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On August 01 2013 04:33 Zealos wrote:
Let me try and throw in a post that hopefully, correct me if I'm wrong, represents mine, and Klondikes view to an extent. The problem isn't so much that you don't find the idea of a trans women attractive. All that needs to be done is for people to recognize that prejudice. The fact is, society will fill you with prejudice, and it is very difficult to avoid it. No matter how hard you try to be fair, it is often the case that you cannot get rid of some deep seated prejudices you may have. I am very open to trans, homosexual, and bisexuality, however, I would find it very difficult to have a relationship with a trans women. Does this make them any less a women? No, in fact, I am at fault for having the prejudice against them.
Put it in another context: I would be more scared if a black group of young men was walking down the street towards me then a group of white men. Does this mean there is anything wrong with black males? No. Instead, I recognize that I have a prejudice against them, and I try my best to better myself, and get rid of the prejudice as best I can.
Thank you. This is exactly what I've been trying to say. We all have some internalized transphobia, because of our culture. Transphobic joke are literally in every show and form of media, ridiculing someone because he was attracted to girl he didn't know was trans is like a classic overused joke.
Nobody is forcing you to love anyone, just recognizing this part is enough to reduce transphobia, which in turn will reduce violence and discrimination against trans people and make less trans persons committing suicide. (which is way too high)
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I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot.
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On August 01 2013 04:41 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:53 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:49 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:45 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 03:21 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:18 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 03:03 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Check my last post cause it's relevant. But this abstract person is attractive to them in every other way. They question we're asking is whether or not the fact that they are trans overrides everything else and suddenly makes them unattractive.
If Charlize Theron told you she was trans, would you suddenly not be attracted to her? Literally nothing else about her has changed. I mean, sure, this woman is abstract, but we can still get pretty solid images.
I'm saying it's not fair to say "I don't think I would be attracted to someone who is transgender" because you've taken a person you've already admitted is attractive if they were cis-gendered, reducing their attractiveness to the completely binary scale of trans or not-trans, and then saying that overwrites everything else about them.
So by that note, I can't say that I wouldn't be attracted to someone who is 'tall" for the same reasons? I don't like people who are blonde, where does that factor in? Are you going to force me to admit that there is some weird chance I might find someone who is blonde attractive just to make sure I treat everyone equally in my relationship decisions? More importantly, rather than trying to use the whole fertility augment, why not just say, "Are you sure, some transgender people look like super models? Is it really going to bother you that much if they look like this?" and provide a picture. At the end of the day, the best you can hope for it a "maybe" or, "I don't know, I haven't been attracted to any transgender person I have meet" I am all about equality and for people to treat other equally, but there comes a point when people can date or be in relationships with who they want. Believe it or not...that's all you have to say. The people in the thread with whom I was disagreeing were saying they'd never be attracted to a trans-woman. And don't you see how silly it is to say "I wouldn't be attracted to someone who is tall?" Like...that's such a tiny part of their physical appearance. If you are not attracted to someone the fact that they're tall might contribute to that. But to just say "Oh, they're tall, nah not interested" makes you sound like some sort of eugenicist. I just don't like having to lean my neck back to kiss, its not that weird. I am also pretty tall myself. I am sure there one tall girl out there that would change my mind. But personal preference is personal preference and you don't need to say someone is 'sort of eugenicist" if they state what it is. Uh, yeah, I'm going to. Because you just admitted that being tall alone is not enough to make a girl unattractive. And if tall alone is really enough, by itself, to make a girl unattractive to you...you're an asshole. If you're going to shield yourself from any sort of criticism with "personal preference is personal preference" (a moronic tautology by the way) then there's no more discussion to be had. I just call you an asshole and move on. And for future reference, if you're going to offer up your point of view and then immediately shield it with "personal preference is personal preference" then you haven't offered anything of value because the discussion can't continue from it. It can't be evaluated in any way because it's completely subjective. So if you have tastes that you don't want criticized, don't offer them up in a public discussion. it seems you're against anyone having preference o.O dont like fat girls? asshole. dont like tall girls? asshole. dont like perfectly fine "real" woman trans? asshole. Well I'm certainly against people posting in threads who have zero reading comprehension. At no point have I ever said that preferences were bad, in fact, I even listed some of my own. I think that reducing someone's attractiveness to one quality and judging them based entirely on that is stupid. "I do not prefer tall people" is not the same as saying "tall people are unattractive." In the former, you evaluate the person as a whole and their height contributes negatively to your overall perception of their attractiveness. In the latter, you've ignored everything else about their appearance and judged them as unattractive based on one quality. See, if I were to evaluate you, I would say I do not prefer dumbasses who can't read. This would contribute negatively to my perception of your attractiveness since you have, in fact, been a dumbass. See how that works? you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole. from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole) my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. I think the big issue with your term "real women" is that it implies complete and total equivalence. It implies, to me at least, that this woman is just as much a woman as every other woman. But every woman who was born a woman does not have left over male features. They also have a genuine vagina. These are not true for trans women. I really don't understand why you are so insistent that a transexual person is totally equal. You have to understand that there is quite a bit of macgyver'ing going on. Its not that they are able to form a caccoon, wait 4 days, and be totally reborn into a female body. Everything that goes into making a transexual woman is done by surgery and gene therapy. As such, its obviously not 100% perfect. I haven't met a trans woman who looked more than maybe 70% female. I've seen some really convincing ones online in female clothing and all fixed up, but if I had sex with this person with their surgery-formed vagina, would it feel the exact same as a female-born vagina? Probably not. I suppose what I am trying to get at is that we can respect transexuals and encourage them to be themselves, but its just not accurate to say its entirely the same. It just isn't. Science doesn't allow for a man to perfectly transform into a woman. I'm sure it'll happen some day, but why the obsession with viewing them as totally equal today? Its not true yet.
Actually no, if done "right", 4 years after operation you wouldn't be able to tell them apart.
My girlfriend had a male friend for years, and only this week found out he was trans.
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On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:53 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:49 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:45 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 03:21 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:18 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
So by that note, I can't say that I wouldn't be attracted to someone who is 'tall" for the same reasons? I don't like people who are blonde, where does that factor in? Are you going to force me to admit that there is some weird chance I might find someone who is blonde attractive just to make sure I treat everyone equally in my relationship decisions?
More importantly, rather than trying to use the whole fertility augment, why not just say, "Are you sure, some transgender people look like super models? Is it really going to bother you that much if they look like this?" and provide a picture.
At the end of the day, the best you can hope for it a "maybe" or, "I don't know, I haven't been attracted to any transgender person I have meet" I am all about equality and for people to treat other equally, but there comes a point when people can date or be in relationships with who they want. Believe it or not...that's all you have to say. The people in the thread with whom I was disagreeing were saying they'd never be attracted to a trans-woman. And don't you see how silly it is to say "I wouldn't be attracted to someone who is tall?" Like...that's such a tiny part of their physical appearance. If you are not attracted to someone the fact that they're tall might contribute to that. But to just say "Oh, they're tall, nah not interested" makes you sound like some sort of eugenicist. I just don't like having to lean my neck back to kiss, its not that weird. I am also pretty tall myself. I am sure there one tall girl out there that would change my mind. But personal preference is personal preference and you don't need to say someone is 'sort of eugenicist" if they state what it is. Uh, yeah, I'm going to. Because you just admitted that being tall alone is not enough to make a girl unattractive. And if tall alone is really enough, by itself, to make a girl unattractive to you...you're an asshole. If you're going to shield yourself from any sort of criticism with "personal preference is personal preference" (a moronic tautology by the way) then there's no more discussion to be had. I just call you an asshole and move on. And for future reference, if you're going to offer up your point of view and then immediately shield it with "personal preference is personal preference" then you haven't offered anything of value because the discussion can't continue from it. It can't be evaluated in any way because it's completely subjective. So if you have tastes that you don't want criticized, don't offer them up in a public discussion. it seems you're against anyone having preference o.O dont like fat girls? asshole. dont like tall girls? asshole. dont like perfectly fine "real" woman trans? asshole. Well I'm certainly against people posting in threads who have zero reading comprehension. At no point have I ever said that preferences were bad, in fact, I even listed some of my own. I think that reducing someone's attractiveness to one quality and judging them based entirely on that is stupid. "I do not prefer tall people" is not the same as saying "tall people are unattractive." In the former, you evaluate the person as a whole and their height contributes negatively to your overall perception of their attractiveness. In the latter, you've ignored everything else about their appearance and judged them as unattractive based on one quality. See, if I were to evaluate you, I would say I do not prefer dumbasses who can't read. This would contribute negatively to my perception of your attractiveness since you have, in fact, been a dumbass. See how that works? you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole. from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole) my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots.
Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale.
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On August 01 2013 04:42 jinorazi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:53 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:49 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:45 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 03:21 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Believe it or not...that's all you have to say. The people in the thread with whom I was disagreeing were saying they'd never be attracted to a trans-woman. And don't you see how silly it is to say "I wouldn't be attracted to someone who is tall?" Like...that's such a tiny part of their physical appearance. If you are not attracted to someone the fact that they're tall might contribute to that. But to just say "Oh, they're tall, nah not interested" makes you sound like some sort of eugenicist.
I just don't like having to lean my neck back to kiss, its not that weird. I am also pretty tall myself. I am sure there one tall girl out there that would change my mind. But personal preference is personal preference and you don't need to say someone is 'sort of eugenicist" if they state what it is. Uh, yeah, I'm going to. Because you just admitted that being tall alone is not enough to make a girl unattractive. And if tall alone is really enough, by itself, to make a girl unattractive to you...you're an asshole. If you're going to shield yourself from any sort of criticism with "personal preference is personal preference" (a moronic tautology by the way) then there's no more discussion to be had. I just call you an asshole and move on. And for future reference, if you're going to offer up your point of view and then immediately shield it with "personal preference is personal preference" then you haven't offered anything of value because the discussion can't continue from it. It can't be evaluated in any way because it's completely subjective. So if you have tastes that you don't want criticized, don't offer them up in a public discussion. it seems you're against anyone having preference o.O dont like fat girls? asshole. dont like tall girls? asshole. dont like perfectly fine "real" woman trans? asshole. Well I'm certainly against people posting in threads who have zero reading comprehension. At no point have I ever said that preferences were bad, in fact, I even listed some of my own. I think that reducing someone's attractiveness to one quality and judging them based entirely on that is stupid. "I do not prefer tall people" is not the same as saying "tall people are unattractive." In the former, you evaluate the person as a whole and their height contributes negatively to your overall perception of their attractiveness. In the latter, you've ignored everything else about their appearance and judged them as unattractive based on one quality. See, if I were to evaluate you, I would say I do not prefer dumbasses who can't read. This would contribute negatively to my perception of your attractiveness since you have, in fact, been a dumbass. See how that works? you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole. from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole) my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. well, you'll be up against a lot of people. we live in a world of prejudice, USA got its black president, korea's got its female president, shit unthinkable just decade ago. people are the way they are without choice, they're raised into it, try to understand that culture shapes people and culture takes a long time to change. this perfect trans woman i hear about is something very new, i wouldnt expect any different reaction from people; not preferring them over real woman and you reacting negatively to this term "real woman", when in fact, i see it correct to use that term...since one is natural, born into it meanwhile the other impossible without money and modern technology. keep fighting since thats how all the changes happened but dont be surprised that people dont agree with you, then attack them personally when culture is at fault.
I'm not surprised when people don't agree with me. But I'm not going to be nice to them when they're being willfully ignorant. Our grandparents grew up in a racist culture but that doesn't excuse their racism. They're still assholes and I'm going to call them assholes when they say stupid shit about black people. Yes, we're influenced by our culture. But we're also capable of thinking outside of our culture...it's actually incredibly easy to do in the age of the internet. I don't give a damn if our culture says "trans women aren't real women." Do some damn research, apply some critical thinking, and don't hold yourself back just because your culture trained you a certain way. And if you come into a thread specifically discussing trans people, and then deliberately drag your heels on changing any opinions or beliefs, or worse, say that your beliefs are immune to criticism and discussion (even though you declared them in a medium clearly meant for discussion) you are an asshole.
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On August 01 2013 04:41 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:53 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:49 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:45 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 03:21 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:18 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 03:03 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Check my last post cause it's relevant. But this abstract person is attractive to them in every other way. They question we're asking is whether or not the fact that they are trans overrides everything else and suddenly makes them unattractive.
If Charlize Theron told you she was trans, would you suddenly not be attracted to her? Literally nothing else about her has changed. I mean, sure, this woman is abstract, but we can still get pretty solid images.
I'm saying it's not fair to say "I don't think I would be attracted to someone who is transgender" because you've taken a person you've already admitted is attractive if they were cis-gendered, reducing their attractiveness to the completely binary scale of trans or not-trans, and then saying that overwrites everything else about them.
So by that note, I can't say that I wouldn't be attracted to someone who is 'tall" for the same reasons? I don't like people who are blonde, where does that factor in? Are you going to force me to admit that there is some weird chance I might find someone who is blonde attractive just to make sure I treat everyone equally in my relationship decisions? More importantly, rather than trying to use the whole fertility augment, why not just say, "Are you sure, some transgender people look like super models? Is it really going to bother you that much if they look like this?" and provide a picture. At the end of the day, the best you can hope for it a "maybe" or, "I don't know, I haven't been attracted to any transgender person I have meet" I am all about equality and for people to treat other equally, but there comes a point when people can date or be in relationships with who they want. Believe it or not...that's all you have to say. The people in the thread with whom I was disagreeing were saying they'd never be attracted to a trans-woman. And don't you see how silly it is to say "I wouldn't be attracted to someone who is tall?" Like...that's such a tiny part of their physical appearance. If you are not attracted to someone the fact that they're tall might contribute to that. But to just say "Oh, they're tall, nah not interested" makes you sound like some sort of eugenicist. I just don't like having to lean my neck back to kiss, its not that weird. I am also pretty tall myself. I am sure there one tall girl out there that would change my mind. But personal preference is personal preference and you don't need to say someone is 'sort of eugenicist" if they state what it is. Uh, yeah, I'm going to. Because you just admitted that being tall alone is not enough to make a girl unattractive. And if tall alone is really enough, by itself, to make a girl unattractive to you...you're an asshole. If you're going to shield yourself from any sort of criticism with "personal preference is personal preference" (a moronic tautology by the way) then there's no more discussion to be had. I just call you an asshole and move on. And for future reference, if you're going to offer up your point of view and then immediately shield it with "personal preference is personal preference" then you haven't offered anything of value because the discussion can't continue from it. It can't be evaluated in any way because it's completely subjective. So if you have tastes that you don't want criticized, don't offer them up in a public discussion. it seems you're against anyone having preference o.O dont like fat girls? asshole. dont like tall girls? asshole. dont like perfectly fine "real" woman trans? asshole. Well I'm certainly against people posting in threads who have zero reading comprehension. At no point have I ever said that preferences were bad, in fact, I even listed some of my own. I think that reducing someone's attractiveness to one quality and judging them based entirely on that is stupid. "I do not prefer tall people" is not the same as saying "tall people are unattractive." In the former, you evaluate the person as a whole and their height contributes negatively to your overall perception of their attractiveness. In the latter, you've ignored everything else about their appearance and judged them as unattractive based on one quality. See, if I were to evaluate you, I would say I do not prefer dumbasses who can't read. This would contribute negatively to my perception of your attractiveness since you have, in fact, been a dumbass. See how that works? you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole. from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole) my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. I think the big issue with your term "real women" is that it implies complete and total equivalence. It implies, to me at least, that this woman is just as much a woman as every other woman. But every woman who was born a woman does not have left over male features. They also have a genuine vagina. These are not true for trans women. I really don't understand why you are so insistent that a transexual person is totally equal. You have to understand that there is quite a bit of macgyver'ing going on. Its not that they are able to form a caccoon, wait 4 days, and be totally reborn into a female body. Everything that goes into making a transexual woman is done by surgery and gene therapy. As such, its obviously not 100% perfect. I haven't met a trans woman who looked more than maybe 70% female. I've seen some really convincing ones online in female clothing and all fixed up, but if I had sex with this person with their surgery-formed vagina, would it feel the exact same as a female-born vagina? Probably not. I suppose what I am trying to get at is that we can respect transexuals and encourage them to be themselves, but its just not accurate to say its entirely the same. It just isn't. Science doesn't allow for a man to perfectly transform into a woman. I'm sure it'll happen some day, but why the obsession with viewing them as totally equal today? Its not true yet.
Because when they pass you DON'T KNOW they're transgender
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On August 01 2013 04:43 heliusx wrote:
I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot.
Of course not. They are difference, for instance I can't get pregnant or be menstruated.
But in term of identity. What make a cis woman identify as a woman, her gender identity in her brain, is the same for a trans woman. There is no difference on that side. I also have the same hormones (estrogen).
The difference are on the sex/reproduction/chromosone side of things, not on the gender side, which is the important one here.
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On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:53 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:49 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:45 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 03:21 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Believe it or not...that's all you have to say. The people in the thread with whom I was disagreeing were saying they'd never be attracted to a trans-woman. And don't you see how silly it is to say "I wouldn't be attracted to someone who is tall?" Like...that's such a tiny part of their physical appearance. If you are not attracted to someone the fact that they're tall might contribute to that. But to just say "Oh, they're tall, nah not interested" makes you sound like some sort of eugenicist.
I just don't like having to lean my neck back to kiss, its not that weird. I am also pretty tall myself. I am sure there one tall girl out there that would change my mind. But personal preference is personal preference and you don't need to say someone is 'sort of eugenicist" if they state what it is. Uh, yeah, I'm going to. Because you just admitted that being tall alone is not enough to make a girl unattractive. And if tall alone is really enough, by itself, to make a girl unattractive to you...you're an asshole. If you're going to shield yourself from any sort of criticism with "personal preference is personal preference" (a moronic tautology by the way) then there's no more discussion to be had. I just call you an asshole and move on. And for future reference, if you're going to offer up your point of view and then immediately shield it with "personal preference is personal preference" then you haven't offered anything of value because the discussion can't continue from it. It can't be evaluated in any way because it's completely subjective. So if you have tastes that you don't want criticized, don't offer them up in a public discussion. it seems you're against anyone having preference o.O dont like fat girls? asshole. dont like tall girls? asshole. dont like perfectly fine "real" woman trans? asshole. Well I'm certainly against people posting in threads who have zero reading comprehension. At no point have I ever said that preferences were bad, in fact, I even listed some of my own. I think that reducing someone's attractiveness to one quality and judging them based entirely on that is stupid. "I do not prefer tall people" is not the same as saying "tall people are unattractive." In the former, you evaluate the person as a whole and their height contributes negatively to your overall perception of their attractiveness. In the latter, you've ignored everything else about their appearance and judged them as unattractive based on one quality. See, if I were to evaluate you, I would say I do not prefer dumbasses who can't read. This would contribute negatively to my perception of your attractiveness since you have, in fact, been a dumbass. See how that works? you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole. from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole) my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale.
Ah yes, the tried and true "the real racist is the one who identifies racism" argument. We've all heard it before. Pat yourself on the back for spectacularly failing to understand the basic distinction between bigotry and calling someone a bigot. Social justice is not your forte.
Although I don't actually think I've addressed any bigots for a while. Recently I've been talking to people I would say have some internalized prejudices that would be better acknowledged than ignored. Racism usually manifests itself as malicious and stupid. Don't think Plansix or Shiori are maliciously or intentionally racist.
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On August 01 2013 04:43 heliusx wrote:
I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot.
But they aren't exactly the same, why can't they just accept it? When I refer to them as different, it's not in a demeaning way, it's just calling it for it is.
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On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:53 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:49 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:45 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 03:21 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Believe it or not...that's all you have to say. The people in the thread with whom I was disagreeing were saying they'd never be attracted to a trans-woman. And don't you see how silly it is to say "I wouldn't be attracted to someone who is tall?" Like...that's such a tiny part of their physical appearance. If you are not attracted to someone the fact that they're tall might contribute to that. But to just say "Oh, they're tall, nah not interested" makes you sound like some sort of eugenicist.
I just don't like having to lean my neck back to kiss, its not that weird. I am also pretty tall myself. I am sure there one tall girl out there that would change my mind. But personal preference is personal preference and you don't need to say someone is 'sort of eugenicist" if they state what it is. Uh, yeah, I'm going to. Because you just admitted that being tall alone is not enough to make a girl unattractive. And if tall alone is really enough, by itself, to make a girl unattractive to you...you're an asshole. If you're going to shield yourself from any sort of criticism with "personal preference is personal preference" (a moronic tautology by the way) then there's no more discussion to be had. I just call you an asshole and move on. And for future reference, if you're going to offer up your point of view and then immediately shield it with "personal preference is personal preference" then you haven't offered anything of value because the discussion can't continue from it. It can't be evaluated in any way because it's completely subjective. So if you have tastes that you don't want criticized, don't offer them up in a public discussion. it seems you're against anyone having preference o.O dont like fat girls? asshole. dont like tall girls? asshole. dont like perfectly fine "real" woman trans? asshole. Well I'm certainly against people posting in threads who have zero reading comprehension. At no point have I ever said that preferences were bad, in fact, I even listed some of my own. I think that reducing someone's attractiveness to one quality and judging them based entirely on that is stupid. "I do not prefer tall people" is not the same as saying "tall people are unattractive." In the former, you evaluate the person as a whole and their height contributes negatively to your overall perception of their attractiveness. In the latter, you've ignored everything else about their appearance and judged them as unattractive based on one quality. See, if I were to evaluate you, I would say I do not prefer dumbasses who can't read. This would contribute negatively to my perception of your attractiveness since you have, in fact, been a dumbass. See how that works? you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole. from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole) my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale.
You feel insulted because someone think you're bigot ? Geez, that's horrible, maybe you should start a social movement against bigotphobia. I mean, it's obvious that they suffer much more from this that the trans person they are directly insulting. Think of all the white straight bigot that got assaulted, raped, killed because of their identity as bigot ...
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On August 01 2013 04:54 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:43 heliusx wrote:
I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot. But they aren't exactly the same, why can't they just accept it? When I refer to them as different, it's not in a demeaning way, it's just calling it for it is.
All people aren't 'exactly' the same but we still call each other human.
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On August 01 2013 04:55 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:53 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:49 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:45 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I just don't like having to lean my neck back to kiss, its not that weird. I am also pretty tall myself. I am sure there one tall girl out there that would change my mind. But personal preference is personal preference and you don't need to say someone is 'sort of eugenicist" if they state what it is. Uh, yeah, I'm going to. Because you just admitted that being tall alone is not enough to make a girl unattractive. And if tall alone is really enough, by itself, to make a girl unattractive to you...you're an asshole. If you're going to shield yourself from any sort of criticism with "personal preference is personal preference" (a moronic tautology by the way) then there's no more discussion to be had. I just call you an asshole and move on. And for future reference, if you're going to offer up your point of view and then immediately shield it with "personal preference is personal preference" then you haven't offered anything of value because the discussion can't continue from it. It can't be evaluated in any way because it's completely subjective. So if you have tastes that you don't want criticized, don't offer them up in a public discussion. it seems you're against anyone having preference o.O dont like fat girls? asshole. dont like tall girls? asshole. dont like perfectly fine "real" woman trans? asshole. Well I'm certainly against people posting in threads who have zero reading comprehension. At no point have I ever said that preferences were bad, in fact, I even listed some of my own. I think that reducing someone's attractiveness to one quality and judging them based entirely on that is stupid. "I do not prefer tall people" is not the same as saying "tall people are unattractive." In the former, you evaluate the person as a whole and their height contributes negatively to your overall perception of their attractiveness. In the latter, you've ignored everything else about their appearance and judged them as unattractive based on one quality. See, if I were to evaluate you, I would say I do not prefer dumbasses who can't read. This would contribute negatively to my perception of your attractiveness since you have, in fact, been a dumbass. See how that works? you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole. from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole) my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale. You feel insulted because someone think you're bigot ? Geez, that's horrible, maybe you should start a social movement against bigotphobia. I mean, it's obvious that you suffer much more from this that the trans person you are directly insulting. Think of all the white straight bigot that got assaulted, raped, killed because of their identity as bigot ...
He should join the MRA reddit while he's at it. The poor men who aren't allowed to voice their bigotted opinions without people getting pissed off at them.
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protect odorus freeze peaches?
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On August 01 2013 04:51 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:53 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:49 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:45 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I just don't like having to lean my neck back to kiss, its not that weird. I am also pretty tall myself. I am sure there one tall girl out there that would change my mind. But personal preference is personal preference and you don't need to say someone is 'sort of eugenicist" if they state what it is. Uh, yeah, I'm going to. Because you just admitted that being tall alone is not enough to make a girl unattractive. And if tall alone is really enough, by itself, to make a girl unattractive to you...you're an asshole. If you're going to shield yourself from any sort of criticism with "personal preference is personal preference" (a moronic tautology by the way) then there's no more discussion to be had. I just call you an asshole and move on. And for future reference, if you're going to offer up your point of view and then immediately shield it with "personal preference is personal preference" then you haven't offered anything of value because the discussion can't continue from it. It can't be evaluated in any way because it's completely subjective. So if you have tastes that you don't want criticized, don't offer them up in a public discussion. it seems you're against anyone having preference o.O dont like fat girls? asshole. dont like tall girls? asshole. dont like perfectly fine "real" woman trans? asshole. Well I'm certainly against people posting in threads who have zero reading comprehension. At no point have I ever said that preferences were bad, in fact, I even listed some of my own. I think that reducing someone's attractiveness to one quality and judging them based entirely on that is stupid. "I do not prefer tall people" is not the same as saying "tall people are unattractive." In the former, you evaluate the person as a whole and their height contributes negatively to your overall perception of their attractiveness. In the latter, you've ignored everything else about their appearance and judged them as unattractive based on one quality. See, if I were to evaluate you, I would say I do not prefer dumbasses who can't read. This would contribute negatively to my perception of your attractiveness since you have, in fact, been a dumbass. See how that works? you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole. from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole) my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale. Ah yes, the tried and true "the real racist is the one who identifies racism" argument. We've all heard it before. Pat yourself on the back for spectacularly failing to understand the basic distinction between bigotry and calling someone a bigot. Social justice is not your forte.
There's a big difference between calling someone a bigot and calling entire countries "backwater, uneducated cesspool[s]" and "idiots."
big·ot·ry
/ˈbigətrē/
Noun
Bigoted attitudes; intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself.
Synonyms
zealotry - fanaticism
Do social justice warriors define that differently as well?
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On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:53 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:49 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:45 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 03:21 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:18 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
So by that note, I can't say that I wouldn't be attracted to someone who is 'tall" for the same reasons? I don't like people who are blonde, where does that factor in? Are you going to force me to admit that there is some weird chance I might find someone who is blonde attractive just to make sure I treat everyone equally in my relationship decisions?
More importantly, rather than trying to use the whole fertility augment, why not just say, "Are you sure, some transgender people look like super models? Is it really going to bother you that much if they look like this?" and provide a picture.
At the end of the day, the best you can hope for it a "maybe" or, "I don't know, I haven't been attracted to any transgender person I have meet" I am all about equality and for people to treat other equally, but there comes a point when people can date or be in relationships with who they want. Believe it or not...that's all you have to say. The people in the thread with whom I was disagreeing were saying they'd never be attracted to a trans-woman. And don't you see how silly it is to say "I wouldn't be attracted to someone who is tall?" Like...that's such a tiny part of their physical appearance. If you are not attracted to someone the fact that they're tall might contribute to that. But to just say "Oh, they're tall, nah not interested" makes you sound like some sort of eugenicist. I just don't like having to lean my neck back to kiss, its not that weird. I am also pretty tall myself. I am sure there one tall girl out there that would change my mind. But personal preference is personal preference and you don't need to say someone is 'sort of eugenicist" if they state what it is. Uh, yeah, I'm going to. Because you just admitted that being tall alone is not enough to make a girl unattractive. And if tall alone is really enough, by itself, to make a girl unattractive to you...you're an asshole. If you're going to shield yourself from any sort of criticism with "personal preference is personal preference" (a moronic tautology by the way) then there's no more discussion to be had. I just call you an asshole and move on. And for future reference, if you're going to offer up your point of view and then immediately shield it with "personal preference is personal preference" then you haven't offered anything of value because the discussion can't continue from it. It can't be evaluated in any way because it's completely subjective. So if you have tastes that you don't want criticized, don't offer them up in a public discussion. it seems you're against anyone having preference o.O dont like fat girls? asshole. dont like tall girls? asshole. dont like perfectly fine "real" woman trans? asshole. Well I'm certainly against people posting in threads who have zero reading comprehension. At no point have I ever said that preferences were bad, in fact, I even listed some of my own. I think that reducing someone's attractiveness to one quality and judging them based entirely on that is stupid. "I do not prefer tall people" is not the same as saying "tall people are unattractive." In the former, you evaluate the person as a whole and their height contributes negatively to your overall perception of their attractiveness. In the latter, you've ignored everything else about their appearance and judged them as unattractive based on one quality. See, if I were to evaluate you, I would say I do not prefer dumbasses who can't read. This would contribute negatively to my perception of your attractiveness since you have, in fact, been a dumbass. See how that works? you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole. from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole) my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots.
Isnt it somehow ironic if you call people assholes if they do not share the exact opinion like you. Isnt it somehow ironic that you call people assholes because they do not share the same view on sexuality like you?
Isnt it a bit fucked up that you insult people for having one "problematic" view. You call them bigots because they say "i wouldnt fuck a trans women" instead of "i dont prefer trans women". Isnt this a fucking minor thing just like you call them out for by them "degrading" poeple on another minor thing?
You call someone an asshole because he/she MAYBE has a narrow point of view on a certain topic?
Are you so full of yourself that you cant see the irony here?
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On August 01 2013 04:56 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:54 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 04:43 heliusx wrote:
I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot. But they aren't exactly the same, why can't they just accept it? When I refer to them as different, it's not in a demeaning way, it's just calling it for it is. All people aren't 'exactly' the same but we still call each other human.
lol your analogy is stupid.
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On August 01 2013 04:54 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:43 heliusx wrote:
I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot. But they aren't exactly the same, why can't they just accept it? When I refer to them as different, it's not in a demeaning way, it's just calling it for it is.
Why won't people just believe my completely unfounded, disproven, and untrue claims for which I have no evidence?! I'm not being insulting! I just think we should deny people certain rights based on an opinion I formed of them 5 minutes ago!
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On August 01 2013 04:39 fugs wrote:
Being trans and mentally disabled makes reading these arguments very uncomfortable. Believe it or not, telling a trans person that they're infertile/not real/mentally challenged/disgusting/ugly is a really mean thing to do. You don't walk up to some cancer patient and point out their infertility do you? Why do so many people think it's okay to tell trans people, to their face, things you'd never tell any other individual?
Whether you believe it's 'right' or 'wrong' for me to use the bathroom I feel comfortable in, or to wear the clothes I think are cute, date the people I am attracted to is not going to stop me. Your discomfort is a product of your own design and I'm not responsible for it.
As for all the understanding people posting, thank you, I wish others were more like you.
No offence, but how is you not feeling comfortable using a bathroom dedicated for a sex you don't identify with any different from people not being comfortable with you using a bathroom they might not identify you with? I think you're being just as insensitive towards their feelings as they are towards yours. Why is that a vast majority should accommodate you and not the other way around?
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On August 01 2013 03:09 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 03:03 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 02:52 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 02:43 Shiori wrote:Except that that exact logic can be applied in all sorts of bigoted ways. Like "it's just my preference to only date white people." I'm forcing the logical reasons because we have a lot of internalized "-ism's" that we don't realize we have. And confronting them and saying "huh, there really is not logical reason I wouldn't bang person X" you end up making yourself better off as a person. How the shit is this bigoted? I don't find certain skin tones particularly appealing. How does this make me a bigot anymore than liking certain body shapes makes me a bigot...? There are literally no logical reasons for any attraction beyond "I like this, they have it, so I like them." Seriously, that's all it is. I don't go out of my way to construct huge logical arguments every time I see a pretty woman somewhere. I'm just like "oh, she looks really pretty." If it's any consolation, I don't think I'd date an amputee or someone with a serious physical disability, either. Not that I have anything against such people, but, like it or not, I do prefer certain things in the physique of my partner. That doesn't make a bigot anymore than liking the colour blue makes me a big. *sigh* I've addressed this before but I'll do it again. You can find certain skin tones more attractive than others. Say you don't care for darker skin tones, but I can bet you'd find black people who are sexually attractive. To be honest, I really haven't ever met a black woman that I've found particularly sexually attractive. The closest I've come to that is encountering girls who are mixed. I just really don't particularly like the look of very dark skin. And I bet you can find white people who are unattractive. So, while you may have a preference, it's silly to say "I only fuck white chicks" because you're making a blanket statement about the unattractiveness of black people that is both untrue and...a judgement of beauty based on race is...sketchy. I'm not making a blanket statement about the attractiveness of anyone. I'm making a statement about the attractiveness of physical traits that are closer to the average in some groups than others relative to my own mind. I'm not declaring that black people are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them particularly attractive. I just prefer pale skin tones in general, tbh, perhaps because I'm very pale myself. The reason I'm still in this thread on this topic is because people are saying "I only fuck cis-gendered chicks." Which is just as nonsensical. Reason finally pointed out that his was not an exclusive preference which is fine. But if you're preferences are both that broad and completely exclusive, something weird is going on. What does this even mean? How exactly is a sexual preference something "weird" going on? Like, I'd be wary of dating someone with a history of bipolar disorder or nervous breakdowns, but that doesn't make me a bigot; it just means that I'm not really confident in my ability to handle that and don't really want that sort of baggage in a relationship. Similarly, I have literally no fucking clue about how sexual dysphoria is, and nothing I've read has made it much clearer to me, so I'd rather not be in a relationship with a trans person because I frankly don't understand transgenderism well enough to actually judge whether I want to be in a relationship with a trans person. For me, it's just a matter of empathy, or rather, lack thereof. I'm aware that some of you just have non-exclusive preferences. I'm not really addressing you. It's the people who have made a very broad exclusion based on a characteristic that contains a huge range of attractiveness (particularly when people of said characteristic meet every other standard of attractiveness) and so it makes no sense to simply rule it out completely. There are trans women you would think are ugly but I guarantee you a quick google search can show you some trans women you'd fap to in a heartbeat. Shrug. As I said, I don't get sexual dysphoria or gender identity at all, so I wouldn't be able to understand my partner to begin with. Not wanting to date someone who I fundamentally don't understand isn't bigotry; it's very normal. 1. We're talking about banging, not dating. Talking about how you couldn't emotionally support them is not relevant.
I don't bang people that I don't have an emotional connection with, because I require some sort of emotional attachment to be aroused in a way strong enough that makes me actually want to have sex with someone.
2. You've never seen a black chick you think is hot? Not in any movie, not on any tv show, not ever in real life? If that's actually true...yeah, racist.
How exactly is it racist? I don't like certain skin tones.I don't like braided or frizzy hair. I don't like a lot of body hair. If I see a black girl that I find attractive, then I'll have found one that I find attractive. But it's pretty unlikely because I fundamentally just don't find the skin colour very appealing.
When you first see them you reduce their physical appearance to their skin color and write them off without actually looking at any of their other qualities. Maybe that offends you to hear...fine.
It does offend me to hear that, because your point makes absolutely no sense. We write off people for all kinds of characteristics when it comes to sexual attraction, because most of the people we meet aren't people we seriously want to have sex with. I don't find girls that are taller than me physically attractive. I don't find girls with very pronounced ears or chins attractive. It doesn't mean I hate them; it just means that I don't get any vibes from it.
And nowhere have I said that black people can't have qualities that are appealing to me; they can. That said, I don't have sex with random people. I have sex with people who don't have any characteristics that I have any sort of actual lack of sexual interest regarding. Trust me, it has nothing to do with liking or not liking someone, or to do with me being some kind of racist. I simply don't like to have sex with people that I'm not 100% attracted to because I can't honestly commit to them, given those reservations I have. If I run into someone who is an exception to my rule, then that's fine, but I can only say what I'm saying based on the people I have met.
Physical appearance is totally up to what you can see/feel. The fact of the matter is that a person's skin colour, proportions, and face are the most obvious things that you notice when seeing them. I choose to have sex with people that satisfy my preference in all three categories. How is this a bad thing? It's not like I go out of my way to lead people on and then attack them for being too tall or something. I just don't pursue a sexual relationship with those people...as is my right.
You're acting like there's some kind of objective criteria by which we should all be determining sexual attractiveness when there just isn't. I have absolutely no taste for BDSM stuff, for example. Every single BDSM porn I've seen has done nothing for me, and the concept doesn't seem remotely attractive to me. By your logic, this somehow makes me bigoted against BDSM, because I don't strictly speaking know if I'll eventually see a BDSM porn that I like. I mean, sure, it's possible, but as of righjt now? Haven't seen one. Same goes for, say, obviously overweight women. I just can't really see myself finding an overweight body physically attractive, unless it's really minor. Likewise, I can't see myself finding very, very dark skin attractive, but I could see myself finding black people with a lighter shade of black sexually attractive. Seriously, you're literally calling me bigoted because of what colour combinations I find appealing.
But reevaluate how you notice people, because when you're writing off huge chunks of people because of one physical characteristic, you're doing it wrong. Scream "hormones" or "personal taste" all you want, you're wrong.
I write off tonnes of people on the strength of one physical characteristic all the time. It's not like I'm damning them to hell...it's that I'm putting them in the category of people that I don't want to have an intimate relationship with. To me, sex is a little bit more than finding a suitable slot to pleasure myself. I actually have to be genuinely interested in the person and find them compelling in order to pursue an interest in them. It's not like I'm disgusted by things I don't have a preference for, but that, given the choice, I won't choose from those categories because there are billions of women on this planet, and I would be doing myself and a hypothetical woman a disservice if I tried to suppress the way I see them for the sake of...something? Why would I want to fuck people that I can't see myself actually seriously being with? It's just a waste of time, IMO.
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