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On August 01 2013 05:04 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:01 heliusx wrote:On August 01 2013 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:54 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 04:43 heliusx wrote:
I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot. But they aren't exactly the same, why can't they just accept it? When I refer to them as different, it's not in a demeaning way, it's just calling it for it is. Why won't people just believe my completely unfounded, disproven, and untrue claims for which I have no evidence?! I'm not being insulting! I just think we should deny people certain rights based on an opinion I formed of them 5 minutes ago! wait what rights are being denied? The right to force others to accept their opinions on gender and sexuality? They can't even use the correct bathroom in most states...
So their right, to use the "right" bathroom, because they identify with that sex, is above the right of the rest of the people who would feel uncomfortable to share the same bathroom with someone they don't identify as the same sex?
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On August 01 2013 05:05 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:01 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 04:51 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:53 jinorazi wrote:
[quote]
it seems you're against anyone having preference o.O
dont like fat girls? asshole. dont like tall girls? asshole. dont like perfectly fine "real" woman trans? asshole. Well I'm certainly against people posting in threads who have zero reading comprehension. At no point have I ever said that preferences were bad, in fact, I even listed some of my own. I think that reducing someone's attractiveness to one quality and judging them based entirely on that is stupid. "I do not prefer tall people" is not the same as saying "tall people are unattractive." In the former, you evaluate the person as a whole and their height contributes negatively to your overall perception of their attractiveness. In the latter, you've ignored everything else about their appearance and judged them as unattractive based on one quality. See, if I were to evaluate you, I would say I do not prefer dumbasses who can't read. This would contribute negatively to my perception of your attractiveness since you have, in fact, been a dumbass. See how that works? you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole. from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole) my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale. Ah yes, the tried and true "the real racist is the one who identifies racism" argument. We've all heard it before. Pat yourself on the back for spectacularly failing to understand the basic distinction between bigotry and calling someone a bigot. Social justice is not your forte. Although I don't actually think I've addressed any bigots for a while. Recently I've been talking to people I would say have some internalized prejudices that would be better acknowledged than ignored. Racism usually manifests itself as malicious and stupid. Don't think Plansix or Shiori are maliciously or intentionally racist. I am not racist at all. Racism requires intent to repress a specific race, which I have none. I have unconscious prejudices which I attempt to be aware of and accept that I cannot totally remove, requirement me to avoid acting on them. These unconscious prejudices are racism, you know... It's like when women are internally sexist against themselves.
No they are not. Everyone has unconscious prejudices, including people of the same race. They have proven this through through studies of racial profiling in police. Race of the police officer had not effect on if they racially profiled or not, even if they were the same race as the person they are profiling.
Racism requires intent and malice. Unconscious prejudices do not, which is why they are unconscious. Unless you are willing to say that everyone is a racist, which would offend most people, even those involved protecting peoples civil rights.
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On August 01 2013 05:08 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:05 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 04:51 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:58 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Well I'm certainly against people posting in threads who have zero reading comprehension. At no point have I ever said that preferences were bad, in fact, I even listed some of my own.
I think that reducing someone's attractiveness to one quality and judging them based entirely on that is stupid. "I do not prefer tall people" is not the same as saying "tall people are unattractive." In the former, you evaluate the person as a whole and their height contributes negatively to your overall perception of their attractiveness. In the latter, you've ignored everything else about their appearance and judged them as unattractive based on one quality.
See, if I were to evaluate you, I would say I do not prefer dumbasses who can't read. This would contribute negatively to my perception of your attractiveness since you have, in fact, been a dumbass. See how that works? you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole. from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole) my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale. Ah yes, the tried and true "the real racist is the one who identifies racism" argument. We've all heard it before. Pat yourself on the back for spectacularly failing to understand the basic distinction between bigotry and calling someone a bigot. Social justice is not your forte. Although I don't actually think I've addressed any bigots for a while. Recently I've been talking to people I would say have some internalized prejudices that would be better acknowledged than ignored. Racism usually manifests itself as malicious and stupid. Don't think Plansix or Shiori are maliciously or intentionally racist. I am not racist at all. Racism requires intent to repress a specific race, which I have none. I have unconscious prejudices which I attempt to be aware of and accept that I cannot totally remove, requirement me to avoid acting on them. These unconscious prejudices are racism, you know... It's like when women are internally sexist against themselves. This is such a thought terminating cliche. No matter what anyone says, you're just going to say stuff like "yeah, but that's just you not understanding how society has made you believe this." It makes it literally impossible to argue with your point, because you have no actual evidence that I'm racist. What's next, kids who like white clothes more than black ones are actually perpetuating racism?
Here is a good one. Search "Model" in google images. Search "Beautiful women". Lemme know the black:white ratio that you find. There is your racism at a societal level.
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On August 01 2013 05:12 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:05 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 04:51 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:58 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Well I'm certainly against people posting in threads who have zero reading comprehension. At no point have I ever said that preferences were bad, in fact, I even listed some of my own.
I think that reducing someone's attractiveness to one quality and judging them based entirely on that is stupid. "I do not prefer tall people" is not the same as saying "tall people are unattractive." In the former, you evaluate the person as a whole and their height contributes negatively to your overall perception of their attractiveness. In the latter, you've ignored everything else about their appearance and judged them as unattractive based on one quality.
See, if I were to evaluate you, I would say I do not prefer dumbasses who can't read. This would contribute negatively to my perception of your attractiveness since you have, in fact, been a dumbass. See how that works? you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole. from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole) my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale. Ah yes, the tried and true "the real racist is the one who identifies racism" argument. We've all heard it before. Pat yourself on the back for spectacularly failing to understand the basic distinction between bigotry and calling someone a bigot. Social justice is not your forte. Although I don't actually think I've addressed any bigots for a while. Recently I've been talking to people I would say have some internalized prejudices that would be better acknowledged than ignored. Racism usually manifests itself as malicious and stupid. Don't think Plansix or Shiori are maliciously or intentionally racist. I am not racist at all. Racism requires intent to repress a specific race, which I have none. I have unconscious prejudices which I attempt to be aware of and accept that I cannot totally remove, requirement me to avoid acting on them. These unconscious prejudices are racism, you know... It's like when women are internally sexist against themselves. No they are not. Everyone has unconscious prejudices, including people of the same race. They have proven this through through studies of racial profiling in police. Race of the police officer had not effect on if they racially profiled or not, even if they were the same race as the person they are profiling.
That is called internalized racism. That is still racism.
Racism requires intent and malice.
And that just isn't true :c
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On August 01 2013 05:04 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:01 heliusx wrote:On August 01 2013 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:54 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 04:43 heliusx wrote:
I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot. But they aren't exactly the same, why can't they just accept it? When I refer to them as different, it's not in a demeaning way, it's just calling it for it is. Why won't people just believe my completely unfounded, disproven, and untrue claims for which I have no evidence?! I'm not being insulting! I just think we should deny people certain rights based on an opinion I formed of them 5 minutes ago! wait what rights are being denied? The right to force others to accept their opinions on gender and sexuality? They can't even use the correct bathroom in most states...
Well that's obviously the wrong way to treat someone. I don't want to deny anything of transgendered people but it doesn't change the fact I wouldn't want to be with someone if they were transgender. Call me a bigot all you want, I would still support them in wanting to be treated equally as people.
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On August 01 2013 05:02 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 04:58 Sokrates wrote:On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:53 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:49 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:45 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
I just don't like having to lean my neck back to kiss, its not that weird. I am also pretty tall myself. I am sure there one tall girl out there that would change my mind. But personal preference is personal preference and you don't need to say someone is 'sort of eugenicist" if they state what it is. Uh, yeah, I'm going to. Because you just admitted that being tall alone is not enough to make a girl unattractive. And if tall alone is really enough, by itself, to make a girl unattractive to you...you're an asshole. If you're going to shield yourself from any sort of criticism with "personal preference is personal preference" (a moronic tautology by the way) then there's no more discussion to be had. I just call you an asshole and move on. And for future reference, if you're going to offer up your point of view and then immediately shield it with "personal preference is personal preference" then you haven't offered anything of value because the discussion can't continue from it. It can't be evaluated in any way because it's completely subjective. So if you have tastes that you don't want criticized, don't offer them up in a public discussion. it seems you're against anyone having preference o.O dont like fat girls? asshole. dont like tall girls? asshole. dont like perfectly fine "real" woman trans? asshole. Well I'm certainly against people posting in threads who have zero reading comprehension. At no point have I ever said that preferences were bad, in fact, I even listed some of my own. I think that reducing someone's attractiveness to one quality and judging them based entirely on that is stupid. "I do not prefer tall people" is not the same as saying "tall people are unattractive." In the former, you evaluate the person as a whole and their height contributes negatively to your overall perception of their attractiveness. In the latter, you've ignored everything else about their appearance and judged them as unattractive based on one quality. See, if I were to evaluate you, I would say I do not prefer dumbasses who can't read. This would contribute negatively to my perception of your attractiveness since you have, in fact, been a dumbass. See how that works? you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole. from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole) my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. Isnt it somehow ironic if you call people assholes if they do not share the exact opinion like you. Isnt it somehow ironic that you call people assholes because they do not share the same view on sexuality like you? Isnt it a bit fucked up that you insult people for having one "problematic" view. You call them bigots because they say "i wouldnt fuck a trans women" instead of "i dont prefer trans women". Isnt this a fucking minor thing just like you call them out for by them "degrading" poeple on another minor thing? You call someone an asshole because he/she MAYBE has a narrow point of view on a certain topic? Are you so full of yourself that you cant see the irony here? Because their opinions have translated into laws and practices that seriously damage a minority group. And maybe...just maybe if you come into a thread about LGBT rights, you're gonna have to deal with the minutia of language about LGBT rights...maybe. Isn't it ironic that you write a wall of rhetorical questions without making a single point? Oh wait, no it isn't. Because that's not the definition of irony. Irony is someone with your name being so utterly bad at making a point.
The irony is that you insult people for a fucking minor thing. A minor thing you dont like about another person. That is the irony dagobert duck.
And dont make up that bullshit with the laws and practises. Saying "i wouldnt fuck a trans women" isnt exactly preventing anyone from having equal rights. You can call it narrow minded because they havent seen every trans women and then maybe they would rethink their point of view, or they wont. It is something they have to find out themselves.
I thought that i would never read harry potter, then i read it and i liked it. Shit, that statement before was just one step before wanting to burn all harry potter books. You cannt shove down your opinion someone elses throat because you made a different experience. They have to make they experience themselves or not.
You can tell a kid "dont put your fingers on the heated plate", it will most likely do it anyway. And then learn, or not. Whatever.
And like i said before "tolerance" doesnt mean you have to be positive about it, or like it, or embrace it, it just means you have to ACCEPT it.
What you do is basically calling everyone an asshole because somebody disagrees with you without having a bad intend.
"You dont like capitalism? Fucking uneducated asshole!" "You dont like communism? Fucking uneducated asshole!"
"You dont like oprah? Fucking uneducated asshole!" "You dont like religion?Fucking uneducated asshole!"
And the list goes on and on.
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On August 01 2013 05:12 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:04 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 heliusx wrote:On August 01 2013 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:54 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 04:43 heliusx wrote:
I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot. But they aren't exactly the same, why can't they just accept it? When I refer to them as different, it's not in a demeaning way, it's just calling it for it is. Why won't people just believe my completely unfounded, disproven, and untrue claims for which I have no evidence?! I'm not being insulting! I just think we should deny people certain rights based on an opinion I formed of them 5 minutes ago! wait what rights are being denied? The right to force others to accept their opinions on gender and sexuality? They can't even use the correct bathroom in most states... So their right, to use the "right" bathroom, because they identify with that sex, is above the right of the rest of the people who would feel uncomfortable to share the same bathroom with someone they don't identify as the same sex?
Those claims have been overturned by the courts on numerous occasions. People cannot be forced to use a bathroom based on sexual orientation or gender identity. Any attempt by a public entity to do so has been overturned if challenged in court.
In short, if they say they are a girl, they can use the woman's bathroom. The law does not take sex into account, only what the person identify themselves as.
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On August 01 2013 05:14 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:04 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 heliusx wrote:On August 01 2013 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:54 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 04:43 heliusx wrote:
I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot. But they aren't exactly the same, why can't they just accept it? When I refer to them as different, it's not in a demeaning way, it's just calling it for it is. Why won't people just believe my completely unfounded, disproven, and untrue claims for which I have no evidence?! I'm not being insulting! I just think we should deny people certain rights based on an opinion I formed of them 5 minutes ago! wait what rights are being denied? The right to force others to accept their opinions on gender and sexuality? They can't even use the correct bathroom in most states... Well that's obviously the wrong way to treat someone. I don't want to deny anything of transgendered people but it doesn't change the fact I wouldn't want to be with someone if they were transgender. Call me a bigot all you want, I would still support them in wanting to be treated equally as people.
This is something different.
Being able to recognize your own prejudices makes it an entirely different thing. It isn't perfect, but it will help to lower the problems that minorities face a LOT.
I do not find black women nearly as attractive as white women. This is because I am prejudiced. I will try my best to not act upon my prejudice as best I can, and I will try to teach others to not be prejudiced.
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On August 01 2013 05:12 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:04 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 heliusx wrote:On August 01 2013 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:54 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 04:43 heliusx wrote:
I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot. But they aren't exactly the same, why can't they just accept it? When I refer to them as different, it's not in a demeaning way, it's just calling it for it is. Why won't people just believe my completely unfounded, disproven, and untrue claims for which I have no evidence?! I'm not being insulting! I just think we should deny people certain rights based on an opinion I formed of them 5 minutes ago! wait what rights are being denied? The right to force others to accept their opinions on gender and sexuality? They can't even use the correct bathroom in most states... So their right, to use the "right" bathroom, because they identify with that sex, is above the right of the rest of the people who would feel uncomfortable to share the same bathroom with someone they don't identify as the same sex?
A trans woman going into men bathroom risk being attacked or worse.
That also means you're fine with a trans man going into a girl bathroom ? Do you even know what you're talking about ? Unlike trans woman, trans man pretty much always pass, because testosterone is "stronger" as an hormone.
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On August 01 2013 05:13 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:12 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:05 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 04:51 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:
[quote]
you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole.
from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole)
my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale. Ah yes, the tried and true "the real racist is the one who identifies racism" argument. We've all heard it before. Pat yourself on the back for spectacularly failing to understand the basic distinction between bigotry and calling someone a bigot. Social justice is not your forte. Although I don't actually think I've addressed any bigots for a while. Recently I've been talking to people I would say have some internalized prejudices that would be better acknowledged than ignored. Racism usually manifests itself as malicious and stupid. Don't think Plansix or Shiori are maliciously or intentionally racist. I am not racist at all. Racism requires intent to repress a specific race, which I have none. I have unconscious prejudices which I attempt to be aware of and accept that I cannot totally remove, requirement me to avoid acting on them. These unconscious prejudices are racism, you know... It's like when women are internally sexist against themselves. No they are not. Everyone has unconscious prejudices, including people of the same race. They have proven this through through studies of racial profiling in police. Race of the police officer had not effect on if they racially profiled or not, even if they were the same race as the person they are profiling. That is called internalized racism. That is still racism. And that just isn't true :c
You say "racism". I say 'unconscious prejudices". It is all the same thing. The only difference is that I will be far more effective in convincing people that they have "unconscious prejudices" and they should work to control them. You will have to spend hours explaining to people that they racist and trying to convince them of it is true.
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On August 01 2013 05:13 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:12 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:05 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 04:51 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:
[quote]
you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole.
from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole)
my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale. Ah yes, the tried and true "the real racist is the one who identifies racism" argument. We've all heard it before. Pat yourself on the back for spectacularly failing to understand the basic distinction between bigotry and calling someone a bigot. Social justice is not your forte. Although I don't actually think I've addressed any bigots for a while. Recently I've been talking to people I would say have some internalized prejudices that would be better acknowledged than ignored. Racism usually manifests itself as malicious and stupid. Don't think Plansix or Shiori are maliciously or intentionally racist. I am not racist at all. Racism requires intent to repress a specific race, which I have none. I have unconscious prejudices which I attempt to be aware of and accept that I cannot totally remove, requirement me to avoid acting on them. These unconscious prejudices are racism, you know... It's like when women are internally sexist against themselves. No they are not. Everyone has unconscious prejudices, including people of the same race. They have proven this through through studies of racial profiling in police. Race of the police officer had not effect on if they racially profiled or not, even if they were the same race as the person they are profiling. That is called internalized racism. That is still racism.
From the same wikipedia that people love:
Internalized oppression
In sociology and psychology, internalized oppression is the manner in which members of an oppressed group come to internalize the oppressive attitudes of others toward themselves and those like them. For example, sometimes members of marginalized groups hold an oppressive view toward their own group, or start to believe in negative stereotypes. Examples include internalized racism, internalized sexism, and internalized homophobia.
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On August 01 2013 05:14 Sokrates wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:02 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:58 Sokrates wrote:On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:14 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 03:53 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 03:49 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Uh, yeah, I'm going to. Because you just admitted that being tall alone is not enough to make a girl unattractive. And if tall alone is really enough, by itself, to make a girl unattractive to you...you're an asshole. If you're going to shield yourself from any sort of criticism with "personal preference is personal preference" (a moronic tautology by the way) then there's no more discussion to be had. I just call you an asshole and move on.
And for future reference, if you're going to offer up your point of view and then immediately shield it with "personal preference is personal preference" then you haven't offered anything of value because the discussion can't continue from it. It can't be evaluated in any way because it's completely subjective.
So if you have tastes that you don't want criticized, don't offer them up in a public discussion. it seems you're against anyone having preference o.O dont like fat girls? asshole. dont like tall girls? asshole. dont like perfectly fine "real" woman trans? asshole. Well I'm certainly against people posting in threads who have zero reading comprehension. At no point have I ever said that preferences were bad, in fact, I even listed some of my own. I think that reducing someone's attractiveness to one quality and judging them based entirely on that is stupid. "I do not prefer tall people" is not the same as saying "tall people are unattractive." In the former, you evaluate the person as a whole and their height contributes negatively to your overall perception of their attractiveness. In the latter, you've ignored everything else about their appearance and judged them as unattractive based on one quality. See, if I were to evaluate you, I would say I do not prefer dumbasses who can't read. This would contribute negatively to my perception of your attractiveness since you have, in fact, been a dumbass. See how that works? you should take a break, your words are loaded with frustration and they come off like an asshole. from what i've seen you attacked every person who does not prefer trans woman over regular woman, saying if they all look the same why does it matter, even giving moot examples like "would guys fuck trans woman if there is no difference" (i mean, answer is pretty fucking obvious and if someone were to refuse it'll be based on how they were raised and not their own understanding of it, even refusing after understanding it, theres nothing wrong with that too..but noooo, according to you, he is an asshole) my bad if i'm mixing up quotes from what i've read but i just remember klondikebar attacking anyone that does not see trans woman = real woman Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through. lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. Isnt it somehow ironic if you call people assholes if they do not share the exact opinion like you. Isnt it somehow ironic that you call people assholes because they do not share the same view on sexuality like you? Isnt it a bit fucked up that you insult people for having one "problematic" view. You call them bigots because they say "i wouldnt fuck a trans women" instead of "i dont prefer trans women". Isnt this a fucking minor thing just like you call them out for by them "degrading" poeple on another minor thing? You call someone an asshole because he/she MAYBE has a narrow point of view on a certain topic? Are you so full of yourself that you cant see the irony here? Because their opinions have translated into laws and practices that seriously damage a minority group. And maybe...just maybe if you come into a thread about LGBT rights, you're gonna have to deal with the minutia of language about LGBT rights...maybe. Isn't it ironic that you write a wall of rhetorical questions without making a single point? Oh wait, no it isn't. Because that's not the definition of irony. Irony is someone with your name being so utterly bad at making a point. The irony is that you insult people for a fucking minor thing. A minor thing you dont like about another person. That is the irony dagobert duck. And dont make up that bullshit with the laws and practises. Saying "i wouldnt fuck a trans women" isnt exactly preventing anyone from having equal rights. You can call it narrow minded because they havent seen every trans women and then maybe they would rethink their point of view, or they wont. It is something they have to find out themselves. I thought that i would never read harry potter, then i read it and i liked it. Shit, that statement before was just one step before wanting to burn all harry potter books. You cannt shove down your opinion someone elses throat because you made a different experience. They have to make they experience themselves or not. You can tell a kid "dont put your fingers on the heated plate", it will most likely do it anyway. And then learn, or not. Whatever. And like i said before "tolerance" doesnt mean you have to be positive about it, or like it, or embrace it, it just means you have to ACCEPT it.
I'm not forcing anyone to go to a breeding camp dingbat. I'm saying that when they say "I would never fuck a trans woman" they immediately cut themselves off from having a different experience. Try to keep up please. Your analogies are bad. Your points are bad. Just stick to reading. When you respond you barely make sense and you just muddy the waters.
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On August 01 2013 05:18 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:12 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:04 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 heliusx wrote:On August 01 2013 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:54 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 04:43 heliusx wrote:
I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot. But they aren't exactly the same, why can't they just accept it? When I refer to them as different, it's not in a demeaning way, it's just calling it for it is. Why won't people just believe my completely unfounded, disproven, and untrue claims for which I have no evidence?! I'm not being insulting! I just think we should deny people certain rights based on an opinion I formed of them 5 minutes ago! wait what rights are being denied? The right to force others to accept their opinions on gender and sexuality? They can't even use the correct bathroom in most states... So their right, to use the "right" bathroom, because they identify with that sex, is above the right of the rest of the people who would feel uncomfortable to share the same bathroom with someone they don't identify as the same sex? A trans woman going into men bathroom risk being attacked or worse. That also means you're fine with a trans man going into a girl bathroom ? Do you even know what you're talking about ? Unlike trans woman, trans man pretty much always pass, because testosterone is "stronger" as an hormone.
Well, personally I couldn't care less. But I can still see how many would be offended by a trans "man" going into a girl bathroom.
There really is no need to try and shove your "I identify with my gender so now I'm female etc" into peoples faces like that. This doesn't help their cause at all.
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On August 01 2013 05:19 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:13 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:12 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:05 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 04:51 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through.
lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale. Ah yes, the tried and true "the real racist is the one who identifies racism" argument. We've all heard it before. Pat yourself on the back for spectacularly failing to understand the basic distinction between bigotry and calling someone a bigot. Social justice is not your forte. Although I don't actually think I've addressed any bigots for a while. Recently I've been talking to people I would say have some internalized prejudices that would be better acknowledged than ignored. Racism usually manifests itself as malicious and stupid. Don't think Plansix or Shiori are maliciously or intentionally racist. I am not racist at all. Racism requires intent to repress a specific race, which I have none. I have unconscious prejudices which I attempt to be aware of and accept that I cannot totally remove, requirement me to avoid acting on them. These unconscious prejudices are racism, you know... It's like when women are internally sexist against themselves. No they are not. Everyone has unconscious prejudices, including people of the same race. They have proven this through through studies of racial profiling in police. Race of the police officer had not effect on if they racially profiled or not, even if they were the same race as the person they are profiling. That is called internalized racism. That is still racism.
Racism requires intent and malice.
And that just isn't true :c You say "racism". I say 'unconscious prejudices". It is all the same thing. The only difference is that I will be far more effective in convincing people that they have "unconscious prejudices" and they should work to control them. You will have to spend hours explaining to people that they racist and trying to convince them of it is true.
Well yeah...when you sanitize people's problems they tend to be a lot more receptive to hearing about them. But, when you sanitize them like that people will often not understand that they are actually problems.
And tell me, do the people in this thread who say that trans women should still be called "he" have an unconscious prejudice or are they actually assholes?
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On August 01 2013 05:19 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:13 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:12 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:05 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 04:51 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:On August 01 2013 04:20 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Lots of people in this very thread would disagree with you saying that trans women aren't real women. That wasn't just me. I was getting ornery with the morons who insisted that they'd still call them "he." And I'm ornery with you because you thought you were being super clever with your sarcastic little post...even though you contributed nothing and clearly didn't think it through.
lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale. Ah yes, the tried and true "the real racist is the one who identifies racism" argument. We've all heard it before. Pat yourself on the back for spectacularly failing to understand the basic distinction between bigotry and calling someone a bigot. Social justice is not your forte. Although I don't actually think I've addressed any bigots for a while. Recently I've been talking to people I would say have some internalized prejudices that would be better acknowledged than ignored. Racism usually manifests itself as malicious and stupid. Don't think Plansix or Shiori are maliciously or intentionally racist. I am not racist at all. Racism requires intent to repress a specific race, which I have none. I have unconscious prejudices which I attempt to be aware of and accept that I cannot totally remove, requirement me to avoid acting on them. These unconscious prejudices are racism, you know... It's like when women are internally sexist against themselves. No they are not. Everyone has unconscious prejudices, including people of the same race. They have proven this through through studies of racial profiling in police. Race of the police officer had not effect on if they racially profiled or not, even if they were the same race as the person they are profiling. That is called internalized racism. That is still racism.
Racism requires intent and malice.
And that just isn't true :c You say "racism". I say 'unconscious prejudices". It is all the same thing. The only difference is that I will be far more effective in convincing people that they have "unconscious prejudices" and they should work to control them. You will have to spend hours explaining to people that they racist and trying to convince them of it is true.
But it doesn't really take hours in person.
It really is worth it, because if people are able to understand there own racism, they can work to lower it, and educate others in the same way.
Same thing goes for any subconscious prejudices.
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On August 01 2013 05:18 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:12 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:04 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 heliusx wrote:On August 01 2013 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:54 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 04:43 heliusx wrote:
I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot. But they aren't exactly the same, why can't they just accept it? When I refer to them as different, it's not in a demeaning way, it's just calling it for it is. Why won't people just believe my completely unfounded, disproven, and untrue claims for which I have no evidence?! I'm not being insulting! I just think we should deny people certain rights based on an opinion I formed of them 5 minutes ago! wait what rights are being denied? The right to force others to accept their opinions on gender and sexuality? They can't even use the correct bathroom in most states... So their right, to use the "right" bathroom, because they identify with that sex, is above the right of the rest of the people who would feel uncomfortable to share the same bathroom with someone they don't identify as the same sex? A trans woman going into men bathroom risk being attacked or worse. That also means you're fine with a trans man going into a girl bathroom ? Do you even know what you're talking about ? Unlike trans woman, trans man pretty much always pass, because testosterone is "stronger" as an hormone.
I got news for you. You have been in the bathroom with gay men and nothing bad happened. You didn't even notice.
It doesn't matter if I am fine with it or not(I am and don't care). The Court ruled that groups cannot discriminate against a specific group of people and force them to use a bathroom base on their gender identity or sexual orientation. Its not allowed in schools and public buildings. Private businesses could try, but they face civil litigation if they show a pattern of discrimination.
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On August 01 2013 05:22 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:18 Shodaa wrote:On August 01 2013 05:12 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:04 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 heliusx wrote:On August 01 2013 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:54 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 04:43 heliusx wrote:
I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot. But they aren't exactly the same, why can't they just accept it? When I refer to them as different, it's not in a demeaning way, it's just calling it for it is. Why won't people just believe my completely unfounded, disproven, and untrue claims for which I have no evidence?! I'm not being insulting! I just think we should deny people certain rights based on an opinion I formed of them 5 minutes ago! wait what rights are being denied? The right to force others to accept their opinions on gender and sexuality? They can't even use the correct bathroom in most states... So their right, to use the "right" bathroom, because they identify with that sex, is above the right of the rest of the people who would feel uncomfortable to share the same bathroom with someone they don't identify as the same sex? A trans woman going into men bathroom risk being attacked or worse. That also means you're fine with a trans man going into a girl bathroom ? Do you even know what you're talking about ? Unlike trans woman, trans man pretty much always pass, because testosterone is "stronger" as an hormone. Well, personally I couldn't care less. But I can still see how many would be offended by a trans "man" going into a girl bathroom. There really is no need to try and shove your "I identify with my gender so now I'm female etc" into peoples faces like that. This doesn't help their cause at all.
The oppressed have no obligation to be nice to their oppressers. Sorry :c
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On August 01 2013 05:22 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:18 Shodaa wrote:On August 01 2013 05:12 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:04 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 heliusx wrote:On August 01 2013 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:54 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 04:43 heliusx wrote:
I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot. But they aren't exactly the same, why can't they just accept it? When I refer to them as different, it's not in a demeaning way, it's just calling it for it is. Why won't people just believe my completely unfounded, disproven, and untrue claims for which I have no evidence?! I'm not being insulting! I just think we should deny people certain rights based on an opinion I formed of them 5 minutes ago! wait what rights are being denied? The right to force others to accept their opinions on gender and sexuality? They can't even use the correct bathroom in most states... So their right, to use the "right" bathroom, because they identify with that sex, is above the right of the rest of the people who would feel uncomfortable to share the same bathroom with someone they don't identify as the same sex? A trans woman going into men bathroom risk being attacked or worse. That also means you're fine with a trans man going into a girl bathroom ? Do you even know what you're talking about ? Unlike trans woman, trans man pretty much always pass, because testosterone is "stronger" as an hormone. Well, personally I couldn't care less. But I can still see how many would be offended by a trans "man" going into a girl bathroom. There really is no need to try and shove your "I identify with my gender so now I'm female etc" into peoples faces like that. This doesn't help their cause at all.
So you want me to shut up because my identity goes against your precious unfounded preconception of gender ?
No.
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On August 01 2013 05:22 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:19 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:13 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:12 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 05:05 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 04:51 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:46 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 04:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:25 jinorazi wrote:
[quote]
lots of people think otherwise too and it isnt simply because of shallowness and culture plays a huge part in it like or not. not everyone thinks like the liberals of USA, huge portion of rest of the world would call you crazy for calling trans woman a real woman, however you ignore all that just so you can say you're right and they're wrong. for what reasons? medical advancements that happened the last couple of decades? because of that anyone can become woman? some people like to hold on to tradition and you should respect that the same way you demand respect. you said it yourself dating situation and fucking situation is different. ever thought some cultures think one or the other is of the same? and in that sense trans wife/daughter in law is unthinkable? and that naturally transition into how a person prefers woman. "Tradition" is part of what allowed us to treat people as property. I'm not going to respect idiotic and oppressive beliefs just because other people sincerely believe them. If they aren't up to speed on how to be nice to trans people I'm more than happy to calmly explain it to them. But when they then argue that, no, they should still be allowed to treat them as less than people, I'm not going to treat their views as having any merit. They're just idiots who don't want to better themselves. I don't care if the rest of the world is a backwater, uneducated cesspool. Simple majority opinion isn't enough to make me respect idiots. Fundamentally you're not any different than those people you have been insulting for the past several pages. You're a huge prejudiced bigot yourself, the only difference being you're on the opposite side of the scale. Ah yes, the tried and true "the real racist is the one who identifies racism" argument. We've all heard it before. Pat yourself on the back for spectacularly failing to understand the basic distinction between bigotry and calling someone a bigot. Social justice is not your forte. Although I don't actually think I've addressed any bigots for a while. Recently I've been talking to people I would say have some internalized prejudices that would be better acknowledged than ignored. Racism usually manifests itself as malicious and stupid. Don't think Plansix or Shiori are maliciously or intentionally racist. I am not racist at all. Racism requires intent to repress a specific race, which I have none. I have unconscious prejudices which I attempt to be aware of and accept that I cannot totally remove, requirement me to avoid acting on them. These unconscious prejudices are racism, you know... It's like when women are internally sexist against themselves. No they are not. Everyone has unconscious prejudices, including people of the same race. They have proven this through through studies of racial profiling in police. Race of the police officer had not effect on if they racially profiled or not, even if they were the same race as the person they are profiling. That is called internalized racism. That is still racism.
Racism requires intent and malice.
And that just isn't true :c You say "racism". I say 'unconscious prejudices". It is all the same thing. The only difference is that I will be far more effective in convincing people that they have "unconscious prejudices" and they should work to control them. You will have to spend hours explaining to people that they racist and trying to convince them of it is true. Well yeah...when you sanitize people's problems they tend to be a lot more receptive to hearing about them. But, when you sanitize them like that people will often not understand that they are actually problems. And tell me, do the people in this thread who say that trans women should still be called "he" have an unconscious prejudice or are they actually assholes? Just ass holes, unless its a honest mistake and they feel bad. And its not about sanitizing problems, its about conveying an idea. If you want to get your point across and help fix the problem, use the most effective way to communicating with people. If you want to feel self righteous and convince people they are racist, you can do that too.
Those two sets of words have been focused tested to death. One is far more effective than the other and making people aware of their unconscious prejudice.
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On August 01 2013 05:23 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:22 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:18 Shodaa wrote:On August 01 2013 05:12 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:04 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:01 heliusx wrote:On August 01 2013 04:58 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 04:54 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 04:43 heliusx wrote:
I don't think the transgender people in here would be happy with anything short of people accepting their viewpoint that transgender are exactly the same as someone born that way. Is this correct? It would explain a lot. But they aren't exactly the same, why can't they just accept it? When I refer to them as different, it's not in a demeaning way, it's just calling it for it is. Why won't people just believe my completely unfounded, disproven, and untrue claims for which I have no evidence?! I'm not being insulting! I just think we should deny people certain rights based on an opinion I formed of them 5 minutes ago! wait what rights are being denied? The right to force others to accept their opinions on gender and sexuality? They can't even use the correct bathroom in most states... So their right, to use the "right" bathroom, because they identify with that sex, is above the right of the rest of the people who would feel uncomfortable to share the same bathroom with someone they don't identify as the same sex? A trans woman going into men bathroom risk being attacked or worse. That also means you're fine with a trans man going into a girl bathroom ? Do you even know what you're talking about ? Unlike trans woman, trans man pretty much always pass, because testosterone is "stronger" as an hormone. Well, personally I couldn't care less. But I can still see how many would be offended by a trans "man" going into a girl bathroom. There really is no need to try and shove your "I identify with my gender so now I'm female etc" into peoples faces like that. This doesn't help their cause at all. The oppressed have no obligation to be nice to their oppressers. Sorry :c
Nor is it even helpful. Just ask any oppressed minority how "being diplomatic" to their oppressors caused progress. Spoiler: It didn't.
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