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Aveng3r
Profile Joined February 2012
United States2411 Posts
April 15 2013 20:30 GMT
#2021
On April 16 2013 02:15 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 16 2013 01:39 Adel wrote:
On April 16 2013 01:01 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:
On April 15 2013 23:41 FFW_Rude wrote:
On April 15 2013 23:36 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote:
On April 15 2013 23:32 FFW_Rude wrote:
On April 15 2013 01:26 Grettin wrote:
On April 15 2013 01:22 barnEbiss wrote:
Also Fighters for free North Korea are supposed to release balloons into the North tomorrow so thats going to be another potentate hotspot issue if North Korea follows through with threat to shell location.


And if someone didn't know already, there are propaganda leaflets on the balloons which are sent to North.

North Korea warned Saturday that South Korea will face a "catastrophic situation" if it allows anti-Pyongyang propaganda leaflets to be flown into its territory across the border ahead of a major holiday.

A group of North Korean defectors and a Seoul-based civic organization have said they jointly plan to fly tens of thousands of leaflets with anti-Pyongyang messages, often mixed with U.S. dollar bills, via balloon timed to the upcoming birthday of the North's late founder Kim Il-sung, which falls on Monday.

In a commentary posted on the Web site of its propaganda Internet outlet, Uriminzokkiri, the communist North said a catastrophic situation will occur if the leaflets are sent cross the border on the late leader's birthday, dubbed the "Day of the Sun." The late leader, who died in 1994, is the grandfather of current leader Kim Jong-un.

Activists in the South often send anti-Pyongyang propaganda leaflets across the border, condemning the autocratic North Korean regime and calling for a popular uprising against the leadership.


Yonhap


WTF ? Do they want the war to happen ? How can they be so provocating...

i would like to see whatever is going to happen (be it war or not) happen sooner rather than later.. every day that this is delayed is another day that the north korean people have to suffer through starvation, slavery, and torture


That's gambling far beyond reason no ? Maybe i don't understand all that it means.


what i am saying is that somehow this whole thing is going to come to a climax and (hopefully) the end result will be with the NK government being replaced

i am hoping that, whatever it is, it happens sooner instead of later so that the NK populace doesn't have to continue suffering


That and the fact that if "it" is actually war, it'd better be now than later since NK's army and tech will only improve over time. If they can buy enough time to get actually decent intercontinental ballistic missiles that have reasonable accuracy and can target New York, it probably won't end very well, will it?
I'm not saying that it's best to do a preemptive strike, but they better do something now while they can win the war with... a little less casualties than wait until the situation spirals out of control w/ 10 times bigger casualties.

i agree completely. i hope that we can do it with china on our side though.. i suspect they (we) are working on getting china's consent and then may just do a "quick" wipeout of NK's artillery.. i wonder how long it would take to eliminate NK's artillery with the firepower we currently have in the area... anybody seen any estimates?

Probably not quick enough, any aggression would probably result in substantial NK counterattack on seoul. Can you imagine how difficult a coordinated strike would be that would target ALL of the artillery? probably not that easy.
I carve marble busts of assassinated world leaders - PM for a quote
Deleted User 183001
Profile Joined May 2011
2939 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-15 20:38:35
April 15 2013 20:35 GMT
#2022
On April 16 2013 05:17 goldenwitch wrote:
I think you are just confused about this issue. It's one thing to put things into space with a three stage rocket. It's quite another to develop the technology to move a nuke across the pacific with enough accuracy to hit something.

Again, to put it in a comparison with Russia, Russia is still trying to develop that technology.

A military estimation is always generous to the enemy, especially when there is potential funding that might be obtained by considering the worst case scenario. To say that NK can successfully nuke even Seattle is exactly that, a generous estimation to deal with worst case scenarios.

Have you even considered how much it costs to fire a single one of these missiles? To imagine that NK, who again, can't even provide power to their entire country, could fire enough ICBMs to ensure that they are reliable enough to load a nuclear warhead in, is in my opinion entirely unlikely.


Even assuming, as you say, that North Korea can make HUGE leaps of technology in weeks/months/1-2 years, how do you figure that the western world given FAR more resources, FAR more people working on the subject, and a HUGE head start, would somehow fail to keep up with North Korea in an arms race? We have RAILGUNS. They have like 5 working planes. We have NAVAL DEFENSE LASERS, they couldn't afford the fuel required to run our navy.

To summarize, you are underestimating the leap in technology between space age and information age, and even if you weren't, the western world would still be advancing faster in technology than North Korea to the point where any amount of time puts them further behind us rather than ahead.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RT-2UTTKh_Topol-M

"The Topol-M is a cold-launched, three-stage, solid-propellant, silo-based or road-mobile intercontinental ballistic missile." Same goes for its predecessor.

Other than that, I agree with what you say. However, do note, railguns are still experimental/in testing at this time, and sea/land-based lasers are hardly reliable, and I'm pretty sure ineffective against ICBMs. A lot of experimenting was done in the past by the US and USSR/Russia. Atmospheric interference is an extremely significant deterrent of effectiveness, especially against something as high and as fast and as large as an ICBM. 1930s Katyusha rockets are a lot different from ICBMs in terms of countering.
aksfjh
Profile Joined November 2010
United States4853 Posts
April 15 2013 22:37 GMT
#2023
Weren't they supposed to do something on the 15th?
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-15 23:13:55
April 15 2013 23:11 GMT
#2024
On April 16 2013 07:37 aksfjh wrote:
Weren't they supposed to do something on the 15th?

They were suppose to do something weeks ago, namely go to WAR. They obviously did not follow that up so who cares at this point. Everything else after that announcement is kinda "whatever". The intents of the discussions in this thread are more "threatening" right now.
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
April 16 2013 09:26 GMT
#2025
Now that Kim Il-Sung's birthday on April 15 is over, the next important dates are
April 25 = 81st anniversary of the foundation of Korean People's Army in NK
April 30 = US-South Korea joint military drill ends

South Korea and US have already shown that they are willing to talk and negotiate a few days ago, so NK might just take it as a "win" without firing a single missile. That way, Kim Jong-Un can at least save his face, wihch might be as important as actual gain in their culture and as a politically vulnerable young leader.

btw, mod note at the top is out of date. No one is talking about the ethics of nuking Japan anymore.
kafkaesque
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
Germany2006 Posts
April 16 2013 10:06 GMT
#2026
Did anyone see the BBC documentary that aired yesterday?

I'm really looking forward to watching that after Code S!
| (• ◡•)|╯ ╰(❍ᴥ❍ʋ)
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
April 16 2013 10:52 GMT
#2027
Yeah we were just discussing it in the office. Was quite a very very disturbing documentary. They were showing hospitals with nobody in them.It showed a factory that should produce electric generators, the factory had no power to it. Then it showed a "typical" farm house for a farmer which just looked like a show home. They also showed South Korea and then North Korea from space. It is so different. The South Korean half is light up and looks like a normal country and the North Korean half is just so dark and mysterious. It is literally like there is no one there :S

It was good though, so i do recommend it
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
CaucasianAsian
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
Korea (South)11596 Posts
April 16 2013 17:29 GMT
#2028
I can't wait until they reopen tours.
Calendar@ Fish Server: `iOps]..Stark
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
April 16 2013 21:23 GMT
#2029
On April 16 2013 19:52 Pandemona wrote:
Yeah we were just discussing it in the office. Was quite a very very disturbing documentary. They were showing hospitals with nobody in them.It showed a factory that should produce electric generators, the factory had no power to it. Then it showed a "typical" farm house for a farmer which just looked like a show home. They also showed South Korea and then North Korea from space. It is so different. The South Korean half is light up and looks like a normal country and the North Korean half is just so dark and mysterious. It is literally like there is no one there :S

It was good though, so i do recommend it


Its the land of whispers and ghosts... spooky place.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
novatrix
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada28 Posts
April 16 2013 21:59 GMT
#2030
Can you tell what the name of the documentary is... I can't find it. Ty!
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
April 17 2013 07:33 GMT
#2031
Panorama documentary. BBC website should find it that way.
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
iMAniaC
Profile Joined March 2010
Norway703 Posts
April 17 2013 09:28 GMT
#2032
On April 16 2013 18:26 Orek wrote:
Now that Kim Il-Sung's birthday on April 15 is over, the next important dates are
April 25 = 81st anniversary of the foundation of Korean People's Army in NK
April 30 = US-South Korea joint military drill ends

South Korea and US have already shown that they are willing to talk and negotiate a few days ago, so NK might just take it as a "win" without firing a single missile. That way, Kim Jong-Un can at least save his face, wihch might be as important as actual gain in their culture and as a politically vulnerable young leader.


One would think that Kim Jong-Un would try to grab such a chance to put an end to threats, but apparently not...:

North Korea issued new threats against South Korea on Tuesday, vowing "sledge-hammer blows" of retaliation if South Korea did not apologize for anti-North Korean protests the previous day when the North was celebrating the birth of its founding leader.

[...]

But a senior U.S. military official in South Korea said the North Korean leadership was looking for a way to cool down its rhetoric after weeks of warnings of war.

[...]

But the North's KCNA news agency said on Tuesday the North Korean army had issued an ultimatum to the South after rallies in the South on Monday at which portraits of North Korea's leaders were burned.

"Our retaliatory action will start without any notice from now," KCNA reported, citing military leaders of the Democratic People's Republic of Korea (DPRK), as North Korea is officially known.


Source

I read somewhere else that since this was a statement by the military, Kim Jong-Un wouldn't necessarily be bound by it, so that he could still claim a "win" at the end of the threats that he was responsible for.

I wonder what NK's next step is though. So far, they have managed to (temporarily) lose the valuable income from Kaesong, royally piss off their only ally even further, and not getting to any negotiations as a recognized nuclear state. I wonder if they're able to cut their losses, as it were, or if they feel they have to keep going until they get a tangible benefit. (To be fair, though, they have managed to postpone a US rocket launch and cause the US to treat them as a nuclear threat, although they are not "accepted" as a nuclear state. However, I can't really see any of this translating to any actual benefit for NK yet...).
ZeroReverse
Profile Joined September 2010
Bulgaria108 Posts
April 17 2013 10:26 GMT
#2033
On April 16 2013 19:06 kafkaesque wrote:
Did anyone see the BBC documentary that aired yesterday?

I'm really looking forward to watching that after Code S!

Any link to that ? I would really like to watch it.

Ragnarok shall befall you!
Pandemona *
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
April 17 2013 10:44 GMT
#2034
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01s1mfw/Panorama_North_Korea_Undercover/

Is the BBC Panorama documentary link. However it probably is regional based as it is broadcasted on iPlayer, you can try to proxy it i guess but other than that i can't help ;_;
ModeratorTeam Liquid Football Thread Guru! - Chelsea FC ♥
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42394 Posts
April 17 2013 11:55 GMT
#2035
On April 17 2013 19:44 Pandemona wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01s1mfw/Panorama_North_Korea_Undercover/

Is the BBC Panorama documentary link. However it probably is regional based as it is broadcasted on iPlayer, you can try to proxy it i guess but other than that i can't help ;_;


Thanks, seem to work outside UK.
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
La1
Profile Joined November 2010
United Kingdom659 Posts
April 17 2013 17:19 GMT
#2036
On April 17 2013 19:44 Pandemona wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01s1mfw/Panorama_North_Korea_Undercover/

Is the BBC Panorama documentary link. However it probably is regional based as it is broadcasted on iPlayer, you can try to proxy it i guess but other than that i can't help ;_;



Watched it before and if i am honest its not that revealing, there is a much better documentary on youtube



think this is it
pff
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42394 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-17 18:28:24
April 17 2013 18:15 GMT
#2037
Those who haven't still seen this, one of the most recent ones (with the new BBC doc). It's worth checking out.



Also, rofl:

North Korea Pirates Spy Tools and Porn on BitTorrent

With only a few hundred IP-addresses North Korea’s Internet presence is rather limited. Only a choice few are able to connect to the World Wide Web and access all the free information that comes with it. TorrentFreak decided to take a deeper look at the BitTorrent downloads that can be traced back to North Korean IP-addresses and the results are intriguing, yet expected.

Over the past months we’ve discovered pirates in the most unusual places, from the FBI, through major record labels, to the Vatican.

Continuing down this path we decided to take a look at what’s being shared from North Korean IP-addresses, threats aside.

With full Internet connectivity limited to a tiny minority of the population there’s not much BitTorrent sharing going on, but the results are worth reporting.

A search in the database of BitTorrent monitoring company Scaneye returned 84 titles that were shared from North Korea. These file-sharers used a variety of BitTorrent clients and several IP-addresses that are officially registered to the dictatorial regime.

One of the titles that jumps out immediately is “Net Monitor for Employees Professional,” which seamlessly fits the country’s profile. Ironically, the downloader in question did very little to cover his or her own tracks.

The above reveals a bit more about the download habits of a few North Koreans. We have to note though, that North Korean IP-ranges have been vulnerable to hijacks in the past so you’re never 100% sure who might be using them. Nevertheless, even in these instances you wouldn’t expect the hijacker to use IP-addresses for casual downloading.


http://torrentfreak.com/north-korea-pirates-spy-tools-and-porn-on-bittorrent-130412/
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
April 18 2013 02:58 GMT
#2038
On April 17 2013 20:55 Grettin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 19:44 Pandemona wrote:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01s1mfw/Panorama_North_Korea_Undercover/

Is the BBC Panorama documentary link. However it probably is regional based as it is broadcasted on iPlayer, you can try to proxy it i guess but other than that i can't help ;_;


Thanks, seem to work outside UK.


Doesn't work for me... not sure how ti make it work through proxy.
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
sgtnoobkilla
Profile Joined July 2012
Australia249 Posts
April 18 2013 07:21 GMT
#2039
NORTH Korea has laid out onerous conditions for any talks with Seoul or Washington, including the withdrawal of UN sanctions and a guaranteed end to South Korea-US joint military drills.

...

"If the US and the South enemies ... genuinely want dialogue and negotiation, they should take these steps,'' the North's National Defence Commission said in a statement.

...

"The first step will be withdrawing the UN Security Council resolutions cooked up for ridiculous grounds,'' the statement said.

...

"Second, you need to tell the whole world that you will not get involved in any rehearsal for a nuclear war that threatens our nation. Dialogues and war games can never go together,'' the statement said.

It also called for the withdrawal of all "US tools'' for a nuclear war from the Korean peninsula and a promise never to deploy them again.

The Commission statement was issued hours after the North's main body for inter-Korean relations ruled out any immediate return to the negotiating table.

The South's dialogue offer is a "deceptive artifice'' designed to appease public opinion and to hide its responsibility for pushing the peninsula "to a state of war'', the Committee for the Peaceful Reunification of Korea said.


Source

Not sure if they actually believe the US will play ball. Also, I find it ironic how they blame SK for "pushing the peninsula to a state of war".
Don't play with your food unless it plays with you first.
ninini
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden1204 Posts
April 18 2013 07:24 GMT
#2040
On April 13 2013 01:41 Grettin wrote:
Todays VICE episode (HBO) is going to be related to North-Korea. If you don't know what Vice is, check out their Youtube channel. In short, they have made lots of documentaries around the world and they also did "Vice guide to North-Korea", which i suggest you to check out if you have somehow missed it.

Preview of tonights show: http://hbo.vice.com/episode-two

Segment 1: Escape from North Korea

VICE joins a pastor who helps North Koreans reach freedom escaping to South Korea; however, very few ever take the risk and attempt to defect fearing the brutal punishment if they are caught.

http://www.tvrage.com/Vice
http://www.tv.com/shows/vice/bad-borders-2687997/

That must be Pastor Chun. He's a hero! What he and his organization have done for the ppl of north korea can't be described with words.
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