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) he want to start a war cuz of baloons ? North Korea says/does surprising and alarming thing - Page…
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
) he want to start a war cuz of baloons ? | ||
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Grettin
42416 Posts
On April 15 2013 23:50 xsnac wrote: great leader this nk boy ) he want to start a war cuz of baloons ? Did you read what the balloons actually are? A group of North Korean defectors and a Seoul-based civic organization have said they jointly plan to fly tens of thousands of leaflets with anti-Pyongyang messages, often mixed with U.S. dollar bills, via balloon timed to the upcoming birthday of the North's late founder Kim Il-sung, which falls on Monday. Activists in the South often send anti-Pyongyang propaganda leaflets across the border, condemning the autocratic North Korean regime and calling for a popular uprising against the leadership. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11984 Posts
On April 15 2013 23:59 Grettin wrote: Did you read what the balloons actually are? Still balloons. And words. Not even by the government, but by private people. They have been doing that every year for quite a while now, and they kind of have a point. It says a lot about a nation if they feel threatened by leaflets flying into the country on balloons. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
On April 15 2013 23:41 FFW_Rude wrote: That's gambling far beyond reason no ? Maybe i don't understand all that it means. Waiting as NK gets closer and closer to viable nuclear weaponry is the biggest gamble here. There's never been a better time. It may come to war very soon, and it's better now than later. | ||
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Grettin
42416 Posts
On April 16 2013 00:17 Simberto wrote: Still balloons. And words. Not even by the government, but by private people. They have been doing that every year for quite a while now, and they kind of have a point. It says a lot about a nation if they feel threatened by leaflets flying into the country on balloons. Sure. But my point was that even if they are balloons, words, and not by the government but private people, NK regime not "dealing" with it would be pretty odd (and even stupid). As always, they are doing the usual - threatening. | ||
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6667 Posts
On April 16 2013 00:17 Simberto wrote: Still balloons. And words. Not even by the government, but by private people. They have been doing that every year for quite a while now, and they kind of have a point. It says a lot about a nation if they feel threatened by leaflets flying into the country on balloons. Not just any leaflets, leaflets with words that could potentially undo decades of propaganda and repression. Those leaflets are really a bigger threat to NK government then all the silly posturing between them and the US and SK.... | ||
micronesia
United States24799 Posts
On April 16 2013 00:31 Necro)Phagist( wrote: Not just any leaflets, leaflets with words that could potentially undo decades of propaganda and repression. Those leaflets are really a bigger threat to NK government then all the silly posturing between them and the US and SK.... And in turn it says a lot about a nation if they have a reason to be threatened by balloons with leaflets. | ||
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Tippereth
United States252 Posts
On April 16 2013 00:32 micronesia wrote: And in turn it says a lot about a nation if they have a reason to be threatened by balloons with leaflets. I mean, is this even a point of contention? I don't think anybody in a position to be posting on TL could take North Korea seriously as a government. | ||
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ShloobeR
Korea (South)3846 Posts
it's not going to cause anything | ||
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Necro)Phagist(
Canada6667 Posts
On April 16 2013 00:32 micronesia wrote: And in turn it says a lot about a nation if they have a reason to be threatened by balloons with leaflets. Well yea.. I don't think any one was ever calling NK's goverment rational by any means... Was just pointing out why they would be so threatened by the leaflets. It makes sense that they are over reacting to the leaflets because it could be the end of them in their eyes anyway, especially with new ruler. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
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micronesia
United States24799 Posts
On April 16 2013 00:52 Z-BosoN wrote: How hilarious would it be if leaflets flew into SK from NK telling them to uprise against their country Not very. Only a country like NK has anything to 'fear' from those pamphlets. South Koreans know, NK aside their country is doing pretty well. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On April 16 2013 00:55 micronesia wrote: Not very. Only a country like NK has anything to 'fear' from those pamphlets. South Koreans know, NK aside their country is doing pretty well. Well, it wouldn't be useful, but that's why I'm saying an average SKer would probably just laugh should he read something of the like. | ||
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LaSt)ChAnCe
United States2179 Posts
On April 15 2013 23:41 FFW_Rude wrote: That's gambling far beyond reason no ? Maybe i don't understand all that it means. what i am saying is that somehow this whole thing is going to come to a climax and (hopefully) the end result will be with the NK government being replaced i am hoping that, whatever it is, it happens sooner instead of later so that the NK populace doesn't have to continue suffering | ||
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Adel
Belgium86 Posts
On April 16 2013 01:01 LaSt)ChAnCe wrote: what i am saying is that somehow this whole thing is going to come to a climax and (hopefully) the end result will be with the NK government being replaced i am hoping that, whatever it is, it happens sooner instead of later so that the NK populace doesn't have to continue suffering That and the fact that if "it" is actually war, it'd better be now than later since NK's army and tech will only improve over time. If they can buy enough time to get actually decent intercontinental ballistic missiles that have reasonable accuracy and can target New York, it probably won't end very well, will it? I'm not saying that it's best to do a preemptive strike, but they better do something now while they can win the war with... a little less casualties than wait until the situation spirals out of control w/ 10 times bigger casualties. | ||
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LaSt)ChAnCe
United States2179 Posts
On April 16 2013 01:39 Adel wrote: That and the fact that if "it" is actually war, it'd better be now than later since NK's army and tech will only improve over time. If they can buy enough time to get actually decent intercontinental ballistic missiles that have reasonable accuracy and can target New York, it probably won't end very well, will it? I'm not saying that it's best to do a preemptive strike, but they better do something now while they can win the war with... a little less casualties than wait until the situation spirals out of control w/ 10 times bigger casualties. i agree completely. i hope that we can do it with china on our side though.. i suspect they (we) are working on getting china's consent and then may just do a "quick" wipeout of NK's artillery.. i wonder how long it would take to eliminate NK's artillery with the firepower we currently have in the area... anybody seen any estimates? | ||
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goldenwitch
United States338 Posts
#1. If an enemy of the status quo, aka western culture spreading itself easterly were to send the technology into north korea covertly (think a country like iran trading with north korea on the down-low). I personally find this the most likely way for north korea to gain new technology, and even this is such an outlandish possibility that even accusing said country of supporting north korea would seem ridiculous on the global stage. #2. If North Korea were to somehow develop this technology the good ol fashioned way, aka scientific research, manpower, and a brain trust. The odds of North Korea's technology developing at anything approaching a reasonable rate in my opinion is very near zero. Most of their towns don't even have electricity. Where are all of these brilliant minds going to come from? It's easy to forget that NK is still a hundred years behind the rest of the world while they are making nuclear threats. To further my point, compare NK's ICBMs to Russia's. Russia is still struggling to produce missiles that don't blow up midlaunch. This is post cold-war Russia where Russia participated in an arms race to produce as many of said missiles as possible, and they still have trouble making ICBMs. I don't think we have to worry about NK blowing up New York before we can defend against ICBMs effectively. | ||
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Adel
Belgium86 Posts
On April 16 2013 02:59 goldenwitch wrote: I think the assumption in the past few posters statements is blatantly false. Now that not even China is on speaking terms with North Korea, the only ways that their technology could improve are #1. If an enemy of the status quo, aka western culture spreading itself easterly were to send the technology into north korea covertly (think a country like iran trading with north korea on the down-low). I personally find this the most likely way for north korea to gain new technology, and even this is such an outlandish possibility that even accusing said country of supporting north korea would seem ridiculous on the global stage. #2. If North Korea were to somehow develop this technology the good ol fashioned way, aka scientific research, manpower, and a brain trust. The odds of North Korea's technology developing at anything approaching a reasonable rate in my opinion is very near zero. Most of their towns don't even have electricity. Where are all of these brilliant minds going to come from? It's easy to forget that NK is still a hundred years behind the rest of the world while they are making nuclear threats. To further my point, compare NK' ICBM's to Russia's. Russia is still struggling to produce missiles that don't blow up midlaunch. This is post cold-war Russia where Russia participated in an arms race to produce as many of said missiles as possible, and they still have trouble making ICBMs. I don't think we have to worry about NK blowing up New York before we can defend against ICBMs effectively. For one, Iran, Russia, China and North Korea have been buying and selling weapons from/to each other for a while now. To give you an example, several Iranian missiles are North Korean engineered and locally produced because NK helped them set up the factories, sold them the plans etc. I see no reason why Iran couldn't do the same the other way around. Supporting NK ? It's just business... Besides, there's no reason why NK wouldn't be able to develop said missiles. I don't think it's too far away from what they've already accomplished. Don't forget that they SUCCESSFULLY put a satellite on orbit using a variation of their three-stage missile (Taepodong-whateverthenumber) in February, meaning that this missile works correctly. Ofc, stuff like accuracy & max range are still unknown, but it is believed to be able to reach more than half of the continental USA (including : Seattle, LA, SF, SD, etc). Not only that, but it is very possible that they can equip it conventional, chemical, biological and nuclear warheads. I think it's hardly exaggeration to believe in a few more weeks/months/1-2years, they'll have engineered an improved missile with higher range, accuracy, etc, that could also threaten NY and Washington. The required reaction time for interception is very low, since these missiles (already existing AND working, the only question I believe is about a) if they can fit nuclear warheads on them and b) how accurate they are) cruise at Mach 8 (!), which is about 2700m/s or 2,7km/s. Given that the distance between North Korea and NY is a little short of 11000km, it would just over 1 hour to reach its destination. It'd of course have to be intercepted way way WAY before that, since the only missile interceptors that could come into play are located in Alaska (and they've never been tested). The distance between NK and those missile interceptors is about 5500kms, and given that the missile interceptors have to be fired early (much before the missile flies over them), the reaction time between missile rocketing into high atmosphere and interceptor firing would MAYBE be 10-15 minutes, if not less. It seems to me that you are very far from understanding how real this threat is. | ||
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goldenwitch
United States338 Posts
Again, to put it in a comparison with Russia, Russia is still trying to develop that technology. A military estimation is always generous to the enemy, especially when there is potential funding that might be obtained by considering the worst case scenario. To say that NK can successfully nuke even Seattle is exactly that, a generous estimation to deal with worst case scenarios. Have you even considered how much it costs to fire a single one of these missiles? To imagine that NK, who again, can't even provide power to their entire country, could fire enough ICBMs to ensure that they are reliable enough to load a nuclear warhead in, is in my opinion entirely unlikely. Even assuming, as you say, that North Korea can make HUGE leaps of technology in weeks/months/1-2 years, how do you figure that the western world given FAR more resources, FAR more people working on the subject, and a HUGE head start, would somehow fail to keep up with North Korea in an arms race? We have RAILGUNS. They have like 5 working planes. We have NAVAL DEFENSE LASERS, they couldn't afford the fuel required to run our navy. To summarize, you are underestimating the leap in technology between space age and information age, and even if you weren't, the western world would still be advancing faster in technology than North Korea to the point where any amount of time puts them further behind us rather than ahead. | ||
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JinDesu
United States3990 Posts
On April 16 2013 03:26 Adel wrote: Besides, there's no reason why NK wouldn't be able to develop said missiles. I don't think it's too far away from what they've already accomplished. Don't forget that they SUCCESSFULLY put a satellite on orbit using a variation of their three-stage missile (Taepodong-whateverthenumber) in February, meaning that this missile works correctly. Ofc, stuff like accuracy & max range are still unknown, but it is believed to be able to reach more than half of the continental USA (including : Seattle, LA, SF, SD, etc). Not only that, but it is very possible that they can equip it conventional, chemical, biological and nuclear warheads. Errrrr... where are you getting that info? Source: wiki - Speculative variants of the missile could be capable of a range of approximately 9,000 km (5,600 statute miles) ![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/North_Korean_missile_range.svg/512px-North_Korean_missile_range.svg.png) Even at 9,000km, they would just barely be short of California... | ||
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