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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On January 04 2013 19:38 Joedaddy wrote:Crazy good read. A large number of citizens have next to zero tax liability. Meanwhile, those same people are the benefactors of the entitlement policies that are weakening our country as a whole. Everybody needs to chip in, even if its only a little bit. The other problem with the lack of tax liability and entitlement policies is that a good many of the benefactors of the status quo continue to vote in politicians who vow to raise taxes on the "haves" in order to provide luxuries for the "have nots." People as a whole have a very curious ideas about the differences between wants and needs. Sooner or later, we are all going to have to come to back to reality regarding the difference between the two. Politicians are shouldered with the responsibility of enacting policies that will benefit our country for the long term. But, to do this, they must first care about the well being of our nation more than they care about their political status. Much like a mother or father has to limit their child's candy consumption, our political leaders need to limit the entitlements so many american's have come to know and love. There are a lot of "programs" out there that have good intentions, but the reality is that those programs are stifling growth. One example is the recent denial of the oil pipeline from Canada. Article found here. Meanwhile, back in Washington, politicians are spending fast and furious to pay people back for their campaign support. Here is just one of many articles about the irresponsible and wasteful spending in Washington. I was glad to see the Chinese article pointed out the disparity between America's imports and exports, specifically with China. In our pursuit to buy as much as we can for as little as possible, we have decimated our economy. There are very few people who value the benefits of buying groceries from their local grocery store. Instead, they spend their paychecks at Wal-Mart. There's a reason why their prices are so much cheaper. A large part of the goods sold there are the fruits of underpaid and overworked foreigners. We support the very things that we fight against here at home. Poor working conditions for a disgustingly little pay. An interesting article about WalMart's relationship with China can be found here. The hypocrisy evidenced by our spending habits is appalling. Every American wants to be paid more and more money, receive better health care, and better pension plans. What they don't understand is that they are cutting their own throats. In order to support their employment desires, people must first be willing to buy the end product that is being sold at a price high enough to provide the salaries they want. Refer back to the Wal-Mart syndrome to understand why this isn't logical. The Unions are partly responsible for this. Even though a company is going bankrupt, they still hold firmly on to the teat emphatically trying to get milk from a dry udder. Like so many things, the Union started out with a noble and just mission. However, I strongly feel that their original intent has been perverted to the point of doing more harm that good. In their effort to secure more and more money for less and less work, they are killing any chance for a business to remain profitable. Here is an interesting article about how the relationship the Unions share with American Airlines has affected their business. America needs a reality check. Sooner or later we're going to have to make some hard choices. I just pray that we make the right decision before the consequences are out of our hands completely.
Here here!
Without bigger taxes the goverment has no way of getting its money back to help support it's country properly. Rich people need to be taken down a peg and stop being able to throw money out left right and centre around the world to evade taxes, if you earn the money from the country, you pay taxes in that country.
Lets just hope Obama, grows some balls and tells his goverment that they have no choice but to impliment these changes, and fast.
Does US have the similar sort of problem with Sports Starts avoiding high tax brackets like we have with footballers? For example, Wayne Rooney is reportedly on £220,000 ($350,000 i guess) a week, yet his tax is so small it's a joke. They should get taxed at 50% when you earn over 150,000 a year (these footballers get that weekly!) and yet they pay 22% tax...due to stupid loopholes the rich have found to save themselve 1000s.
The Sunday Times has uncovered 55 players who are taxed at just 22 per cent because they get a large proportion of their total earnings from their image rights companies.
Is the loop hole, that meant, Wayne Rooney gets paid £171,600 a week. A measly £48,400 going to the goverment (every week) due to outstanding loopholes. He should be paying £110,000 a week to the goverment!!! It's outrageous how they get away with this just because they have obsurd amount of money to throw at people who know the loopholes, it should be stopped, and stopped FAST!
So if America has the same issue, surely thats where the goverment should start? I know the UK goverment would love an extra £5.7million a year in taxes from just Wayne Rooney alone....
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On January 04 2013 19:57 Rassy wrote:
China critisising usa economic politics,
Like china got everything right, they are still a one party communist dictatorship with poor respect for civil rights.
China does not work harder and smarter then the usa, infact not a single country works harder then the people in the usa.
They dont work smarter either, as their labour productivity is way lower then the productivity of the usa,its just that there are realy a lot of workers in china.
60-80 hour a week with 2-3 weeks holiday a year is normal in the usa, you should hear us cry in europe when we would have to do that.
All that china does is work cheaper, because there are less regulations for polution and toxic waste,and because wages are cheaper.
Despite chinas economic succes, i dont think there are manny americans who would want to trade their american citizen ship for chinas one, america is still way and way better of then china and will be for at least 50 more years.
I agree that in a lot of ways America remains far superior to China. The point to take away from all this though is that in order to continue enjoying our enlightened statehood, we must first have our house in order.
@Pandemona
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. More so than taxing the "rich," its the rest of the people that need to be contributing. Its those who have little to no tax liability that are the recipients of the majority of the entitlement policies that weaken our country as a whole. History is showing us that they will continue to vote in politicians who will give them more, not less. This cycle only benefits the politicians they elect.
Sooner or later, there won't be enough rich people left to supply America's less fortunate with what they interpret as necessities. Then America will be so destitute that we won't be able to afford the enlightened, "feel good" policies we use as evidence of our social superiority.
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On January 04 2013 17:59 DarkLordOlli wrote:
Don't blame politicians, blame the people who vote them. It's a democracy, if you're complaining about the people you elected yourselves I don't know what to tell you.
Or form of government when you deduce that you can't choose a winnable good candidate, because statistical mass is made of idiots, and the form of government supports them. Its the same story in Poland as well. The reasons maybe slightly different, but the effect is the same.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
@Pandemona
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. More so than taxing the "rich," its the rest of the people that need to be contributing. Its those who have little to no tax liability that are the recipients of the majority of the entitlement policies that weaken our country as a whole. History is showing us that they will continue to vote in politicians who will give them more, not less. This cycle only benefits the politicians they elect.
Sooner or later, there won't be enough rich people left to supply America's less fortunate with what they interpret as necessities. Then America will be so destitute that we won't be able to afford the enlightened, "feel good" policies we use as evidence of our social superiority.
Yeah i get your point, but i wanted to add that perspective to it too. The rich do get so little tax for what they should get, and yes i agree, there is so much benefits and little tax to the average wage. But you will get a better stability taxing the rich quicker and harder than the poor.
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On January 04 2013 20:26 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +@Pandemona
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. More so than taxing the "rich," its the rest of the people that need to be contributing. Its those who have little to no tax liability that are the recipients of the majority of the entitlement policies that weaken our country as a whole. History is showing us that they will continue to vote in politicians who will give them more, not less. This cycle only benefits the politicians they elect.
Sooner or later, there won't be enough rich people left to supply America's less fortunate with what they interpret as necessities. Then America will be so destitute that we won't be able to afford the enlightened, "feel good" policies we use as evidence of our social superiority. Yeah i get your point, but i wanted to add that perspective to it too. The rich do get so little tax for what they should get, and yes i agree, there is so much benefits and little tax to the average wage. But you will get a better stability taxing the rich quicker and harder than the poor.
Wealth is a measure of how much money flow. If the rich get lower taxes than the lower classes, there's no reason for money to flow, it will only accumulate upward. And then we get to the feudal age again. Not that we're far from it right now.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On January 04 2013 20:56 Gheizen64 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 20:26 Pandemona wrote:@Pandemona
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. More so than taxing the "rich," its the rest of the people that need to be contributing. Its those who have little to no tax liability that are the recipients of the majority of the entitlement policies that weaken our country as a whole. History is showing us that they will continue to vote in politicians who will give them more, not less. This cycle only benefits the politicians they elect.
Sooner or later, there won't be enough rich people left to supply America's less fortunate with what they interpret as necessities. Then America will be so destitute that we won't be able to afford the enlightened, "feel good" policies we use as evidence of our social superiority. Yeah i get your point, but i wanted to add that perspective to it too. The rich do get so little tax for what they should get, and yes i agree, there is so much benefits and little tax to the average wage. But you will get a better stability taxing the rich quicker and harder than the poor. Wealth is a measure of how much money flow. If the rich get lower taxes than the lower classes, there's no reason for money to flow, it will only accumulate upward. And then we get to the feudal age again. Not that we're far from it right now.
Yeah but the Goverment needs the money faster, the economys are not providing enough to eat at the debts that are their for goverments around the world, not just in America. Taxing people harder and quicker (ala not taking 2 years to bring in a new tax band, try 3months) will help burden the financial strain on the goverments.
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I lot of this falls on the American people. They've been so ingrained in the idea of having lower taxes, that of course there's money shortfalls everywhere, and the country is facing massive debts. Lower taxes, in incredibly general terms, puts more money into the private businesses and executives through disposable income and consumer spending, instead of towards income tax where the money can be used in other programs to aide the country.
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On January 04 2013 19:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 19:38 Rescawen wrote:On January 04 2013 19:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:26 Rescawen wrote:
The way I see it is that people in Asia work harder and are smarter at the moment. It is only natural that the system adjusts itself. By that I mean Western people have to start living with less values than before. I mean you cannot expect your own living standards to get better if the Asian people's living standards are getting better. It is a zero sum game. A rising economy and living standard does not mean that people are smarter and more hard working there. There's a million factors to it. This is exactly what I mean, people do not want face the truth. They have been spoiled for generations. The world is not fair, it used to be for Asia and soon its gonna be for the West. The sooner you accept certain facts the easier. Thank you Jesus for pointing out my wrongness. What if their economical and political systems are just working out better for them, thus elevating their financial state? Which is what's happening yo. What I'm saying is that there's a million more factors to this than "they work harder and are smarter". There's tons of aspects in their cultures that are in fact NOT smarter, from women's treatment to child labor and sweatshops. That may seem "smart" right now but once they have the living standards we're used to, they'll be facing the same problems pretty soon. A reality check is in store, yes. But there's more to it than your black and white arguments.
Why is child labor not smart? Sweating is good for you so why are sweatshops bad?
User was temp banned for this post.
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Austria24420 Posts
On January 04 2013 21:22 ElizarTringov wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 19:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:38 Rescawen wrote:On January 04 2013 19:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:26 Rescawen wrote:
The way I see it is that people in Asia work harder and are smarter at the moment. It is only natural that the system adjusts itself. By that I mean Western people have to start living with less values than before. I mean you cannot expect your own living standards to get better if the Asian people's living standards are getting better. It is a zero sum game. A rising economy and living standard does not mean that people are smarter and more hard working there. There's a million factors to it. This is exactly what I mean, people do not want face the truth. They have been spoiled for generations. The world is not fair, it used to be for Asia and soon its gonna be for the West. The sooner you accept certain facts the easier. Thank you Jesus for pointing out my wrongness. What if their economical and political systems are just working out better for them, thus elevating their financial state? Which is what's happening yo. What I'm saying is that there's a million more factors to this than "they work harder and are smarter". There's tons of aspects in their cultures that are in fact NOT smarter, from women's treatment to child labor and sweatshops. That may seem "smart" right now but once they have the living standards we're used to, they'll be facing the same problems pretty soon. A reality check is in store, yes. But there's more to it than your black and white arguments. Why is child labor not smart? Sweating is good for you so why are sweatshops bad?
I can only assume that this is sarcasm
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On January 04 2013 21:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 21:22 ElizarTringov wrote:On January 04 2013 19:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:38 Rescawen wrote:On January 04 2013 19:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:26 Rescawen wrote:
The way I see it is that people in Asia work harder and are smarter at the moment. It is only natural that the system adjusts itself. By that I mean Western people have to start living with less values than before. I mean you cannot expect your own living standards to get better if the Asian people's living standards are getting better. It is a zero sum game. A rising economy and living standard does not mean that people are smarter and more hard working there. There's a million factors to it. This is exactly what I mean, people do not want face the truth. They have been spoiled for generations. The world is not fair, it used to be for Asia and soon its gonna be for the West. The sooner you accept certain facts the easier. Thank you Jesus for pointing out my wrongness. What if their economical and political systems are just working out better for them, thus elevating their financial state? Which is what's happening yo. What I'm saying is that there's a million more factors to this than "they work harder and are smarter". There's tons of aspects in their cultures that are in fact NOT smarter, from women's treatment to child labor and sweatshops. That may seem "smart" right now but once they have the living standards we're used to, they'll be facing the same problems pretty soon. A reality check is in store, yes. But there's more to it than your black and white arguments. Why is child labor not smart? Sweating is good for you so why are sweatshops bad? I can only assume that this is sarcasm
No, Andrew Carnegie started working at the age of 13, was he not a child at that age? He became a millionare later in life. Here is one you might be more familiar with, Flash, he was a progamer at the age of 14, was he not young enough to be considered a child? I can only wish I had started working as a child with my dad and learned carpentry but instead I stayed in school and have walked away with no real skills from it.
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On January 04 2013 21:07 divito wrote:
I lot of this falls on the American people. They've been so ingrained in the idea of having lower taxes, that of course there's money shortfalls everywhere, and the country is facing massive debts. Lower taxes, in incredibly general terms, puts more money into the private businesses and executives through disposable income and consumer spending, instead of towards income tax where the money can be used in other programs to aide the country.
China's taxation as a percentage of gdp is around 15%, drastically lower than in the US. Where are their problems concerning this? Same with Hong Kong and Singapore. These countries have strong growth in their economies, and budget surpluses. So how does it follow that low taxes automatically leads to budget shortfalls? Maybe the problem is that a lot of western nations aren't prudent and frugal in their spending and taxation.
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Absolutely terrifying.
This is why I havn't affiliated myself with my countries government in years. I pay taxes for the privlege of living here but that's as far as my loyalties go.
This isn't the nation Washington fought for. This is a nation ran by greed where the rich get richer and the poor are irrelevant.
Will have my bachelor's of science in nursing come December 2013. I wonder how far that would get me in Europe i.e. Germany. Always wanted to live there.
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Austria24420 Posts
On January 04 2013 21:32 ElizarTringov wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 21:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 21:22 ElizarTringov wrote:On January 04 2013 19:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:38 Rescawen wrote:On January 04 2013 19:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:26 Rescawen wrote:
The way I see it is that people in Asia work harder and are smarter at the moment. It is only natural that the system adjusts itself. By that I mean Western people have to start living with less values than before. I mean you cannot expect your own living standards to get better if the Asian people's living standards are getting better. It is a zero sum game. A rising economy and living standard does not mean that people are smarter and more hard working there. There's a million factors to it. This is exactly what I mean, people do not want face the truth. They have been spoiled for generations. The world is not fair, it used to be for Asia and soon its gonna be for the West. The sooner you accept certain facts the easier. Thank you Jesus for pointing out my wrongness. What if their economical and political systems are just working out better for them, thus elevating their financial state? Which is what's happening yo. What I'm saying is that there's a million more factors to this than "they work harder and are smarter". There's tons of aspects in their cultures that are in fact NOT smarter, from women's treatment to child labor and sweatshops. That may seem "smart" right now but once they have the living standards we're used to, they'll be facing the same problems pretty soon. A reality check is in store, yes. But there's more to it than your black and white arguments. Why is child labor not smart? Sweating is good for you so why are sweatshops bad? I can only assume that this is sarcasm No, Andrew Carnegie started working at the age of 13, was he not a child at that age? He became a millionare later in life. I can only wish I had started working as a child with my dad and learned carpentry but instead I stayed in school and have walked away with no real skills from it.
Your view of the world is ridiculously absurd then and I suggest you actually go see the conditions these children are forced to work under. They don't choose to work there, they're forced to. They have no past, no present and no future. All they do is sweat and die for people like you. You're naming one person who made it, completely ignoring the circumstances. I could name you a million children who died in the meantime except nobody will ever know their names.
Now, tell me again why child labor is smart.
If you think you have achieved no skills through your education, blame your education. Or yourself for not quitting school and learning a craft which you can do. Child labor is something completely different.
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On January 04 2013 21:36 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 21:32 ElizarTringov wrote:On January 04 2013 21:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 21:22 ElizarTringov wrote:On January 04 2013 19:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:38 Rescawen wrote:On January 04 2013 19:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:26 Rescawen wrote:
The way I see it is that people in Asia work harder and are smarter at the moment. It is only natural that the system adjusts itself. By that I mean Western people have to start living with less values than before. I mean you cannot expect your own living standards to get better if the Asian people's living standards are getting better. It is a zero sum game. A rising economy and living standard does not mean that people are smarter and more hard working there. There's a million factors to it. This is exactly what I mean, people do not want face the truth. They have been spoiled for generations. The world is not fair, it used to be for Asia and soon its gonna be for the West. The sooner you accept certain facts the easier. Thank you Jesus for pointing out my wrongness. What if their economical and political systems are just working out better for them, thus elevating their financial state? Which is what's happening yo. What I'm saying is that there's a million more factors to this than "they work harder and are smarter". There's tons of aspects in their cultures that are in fact NOT smarter, from women's treatment to child labor and sweatshops. That may seem "smart" right now but once they have the living standards we're used to, they'll be facing the same problems pretty soon. A reality check is in store, yes. But there's more to it than your black and white arguments. Why is child labor not smart? Sweating is good for you so why are sweatshops bad? I can only assume that this is sarcasm No, Andrew Carnegie started working at the age of 13, was he not a child at that age? He became a millionare later in life. I can only wish I had started working as a child with my dad and learned carpentry but instead I stayed in school and have walked away with no real skills from it. Your view of the world is ridiculously absurd then and I suggest you actually go see the conditions these children are forced to work under. They don't choose to work there, they're forced to. They have no past, no present and no future. All they do is sweat and die for people like you. You're naming one person who made it, completely ignoring the circumstances. I could name you a million children who died in the meantime except nobody will ever know their names. Now, tell me again why child labor is smart.
I never said the conditions were good, nor did I say I am a fan of forced labor. But the human body was made for work, children can obviously take less loads of work than adults, but other than that I see nothing wrong with it.
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The economic criticisms of the us in this article are valid and are key concerns about the us economy.
However I would still rather invest in the usa than china. At least the usa has a relatively transparent system, especially compared to china, that's how we know these problems exist. Who knows the extent of the shadow banking system in china, and how leveraged the real estate sector is there? What about the breaches of human rights that raise the question, is there any effective rule of law in china?
At least the chinese have expended some effort to understand free market economics. I hope this means an unexpected collapse of the export driven chinese economy doesn't occur due to lack of demand by europe and america, this is something I worry about.
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Austria24420 Posts
On January 04 2013 21:40 ElizarTringov wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 21:36 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 21:32 ElizarTringov wrote:On January 04 2013 21:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 21:22 ElizarTringov wrote:On January 04 2013 19:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:38 Rescawen wrote:On January 04 2013 19:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:26 Rescawen wrote:
The way I see it is that people in Asia work harder and are smarter at the moment. It is only natural that the system adjusts itself. By that I mean Western people have to start living with less values than before. I mean you cannot expect your own living standards to get better if the Asian people's living standards are getting better. It is a zero sum game. A rising economy and living standard does not mean that people are smarter and more hard working there. There's a million factors to it. This is exactly what I mean, people do not want face the truth. They have been spoiled for generations. The world is not fair, it used to be for Asia and soon its gonna be for the West. The sooner you accept certain facts the easier. Thank you Jesus for pointing out my wrongness. What if their economical and political systems are just working out better for them, thus elevating their financial state? Which is what's happening yo. What I'm saying is that there's a million more factors to this than "they work harder and are smarter". There's tons of aspects in their cultures that are in fact NOT smarter, from women's treatment to child labor and sweatshops. That may seem "smart" right now but once they have the living standards we're used to, they'll be facing the same problems pretty soon. A reality check is in store, yes. But there's more to it than your black and white arguments. Why is child labor not smart? Sweating is good for you so why are sweatshops bad? I can only assume that this is sarcasm No, Andrew Carnegie started working at the age of 13, was he not a child at that age? He became a millionare later in life. I can only wish I had started working as a child with my dad and learned carpentry but instead I stayed in school and have walked away with no real skills from it. Your view of the world is ridiculously absurd then and I suggest you actually go see the conditions these children are forced to work under. They don't choose to work there, they're forced to. They have no past, no present and no future. All they do is sweat and die for people like you. You're naming one person who made it, completely ignoring the circumstances. I could name you a million children who died in the meantime except nobody will ever know their names. Now, tell me again why child labor is smart. I never said the conditions were good, nor did I say I am a fan of forced labor. But the human body was made for work, children can obviously take less loads of work than adults, but other than that I see nothing wrong with it.
What a completely pointless thing to say. This is your opinion and nothing else.
Children should not be put to work because they cannot make responsible decision for themselves at a young age. That's why (at least here) you can quit school with 15 years and learn a craft, not before that.
If an 8 year old boy comes up to you and says "Hey, I want to work at your company!" is he making a responsible decision? No, he's not. Because his brain is not developed enough, he's not educated enough and he doesn't have enough experience to be responsible.
No decisions should be make by someone who cannot make responsible decisions. That's why there's education.
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On January 04 2013 21:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 21:40 ElizarTringov wrote:On January 04 2013 21:36 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 21:32 ElizarTringov wrote:On January 04 2013 21:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 21:22 ElizarTringov wrote:On January 04 2013 19:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:38 Rescawen wrote:On January 04 2013 19:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:26 Rescawen wrote:
The way I see it is that people in Asia work harder and are smarter at the moment. It is only natural that the system adjusts itself. By that I mean Western people have to start living with less values than before. I mean you cannot expect your own living standards to get better if the Asian people's living standards are getting better. It is a zero sum game. A rising economy and living standard does not mean that people are smarter and more hard working there. There's a million factors to it. This is exactly what I mean, people do not want face the truth. They have been spoiled for generations. The world is not fair, it used to be for Asia and soon its gonna be for the West. The sooner you accept certain facts the easier. Thank you Jesus for pointing out my wrongness. What if their economical and political systems are just working out better for them, thus elevating their financial state? Which is what's happening yo. What I'm saying is that there's a million more factors to this than "they work harder and are smarter". There's tons of aspects in their cultures that are in fact NOT smarter, from women's treatment to child labor and sweatshops. That may seem "smart" right now but once they have the living standards we're used to, they'll be facing the same problems pretty soon. A reality check is in store, yes. But there's more to it than your black and white arguments. Why is child labor not smart? Sweating is good for you so why are sweatshops bad? I can only assume that this is sarcasm No, Andrew Carnegie started working at the age of 13, was he not a child at that age? He became a millionare later in life. I can only wish I had started working as a child with my dad and learned carpentry but instead I stayed in school and have walked away with no real skills from it. Your view of the world is ridiculously absurd then and I suggest you actually go see the conditions these children are forced to work under. They don't choose to work there, they're forced to. They have no past, no present and no future. All they do is sweat and die for people like you. You're naming one person who made it, completely ignoring the circumstances. I could name you a million children who died in the meantime except nobody will ever know their names. Now, tell me again why child labor is smart. I never said the conditions were good, nor did I say I am a fan of forced labor. But the human body was made for work, children can obviously take less loads of work than adults, but other than that I see nothing wrong with it. What a completely pointless thing to say. This is your opinion and nothing else. Children should not be put to work because they cannot make responsible decision for themselves at a young age. That's why (at least here) you can quit school with 15 years and learn a craft, not before that. If an 8 year old boy comes up to you and says "Hey, I want to work at your company!" is he making a responsible decision? No, he's not. Because his brain is not developed enough, he's not educated enough and he doesn't have enough experience to be responsible. No decisions should be make by or for someone who cannot make responsible decisions. That's why there's education.
While I agree child labour isn't something we should want we also have to realise those children don't really have an alternative. What's going to happen to them when they stop working? You think they'll get a better future? Getting an education doesn't help you when you're starving.
On topic: China's seriously a joke in these kind of things, let them look at their own problems first regarding things like the banking sector first which is a way bigger problem than the US national debt.
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On January 04 2013 21:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 21:40 ElizarTringov wrote:On January 04 2013 21:36 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 21:32 ElizarTringov wrote:On January 04 2013 21:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 21:22 ElizarTringov wrote:On January 04 2013 19:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:38 Rescawen wrote:On January 04 2013 19:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:26 Rescawen wrote:
The way I see it is that people in Asia work harder and are smarter at the moment. It is only natural that the system adjusts itself. By that I mean Western people have to start living with less values than before. I mean you cannot expect your own living standards to get better if the Asian people's living standards are getting better. It is a zero sum game. A rising economy and living standard does not mean that people are smarter and more hard working there. There's a million factors to it. This is exactly what I mean, people do not want face the truth. They have been spoiled for generations. The world is not fair, it used to be for Asia and soon its gonna be for the West. The sooner you accept certain facts the easier. Thank you Jesus for pointing out my wrongness. What if their economical and political systems are just working out better for them, thus elevating their financial state? Which is what's happening yo. What I'm saying is that there's a million more factors to this than "they work harder and are smarter". There's tons of aspects in their cultures that are in fact NOT smarter, from women's treatment to child labor and sweatshops. That may seem "smart" right now but once they have the living standards we're used to, they'll be facing the same problems pretty soon. A reality check is in store, yes. But there's more to it than your black and white arguments. Why is child labor not smart? Sweating is good for you so why are sweatshops bad? I can only assume that this is sarcasm No, Andrew Carnegie started working at the age of 13, was he not a child at that age? He became a millionare later in life. I can only wish I had started working as a child with my dad and learned carpentry but instead I stayed in school and have walked away with no real skills from it. Your view of the world is ridiculously absurd then and I suggest you actually go see the conditions these children are forced to work under. They don't choose to work there, they're forced to. They have no past, no present and no future. All they do is sweat and die for people like you. You're naming one person who made it, completely ignoring the circumstances. I could name you a million children who died in the meantime except nobody will ever know their names. Now, tell me again why child labor is smart. I never said the conditions were good, nor did I say I am a fan of forced labor. But the human body was made for work, children can obviously take less loads of work than adults, but other than that I see nothing wrong with it. What a completely pointless thing to say. This is your opinion and nothing else. Children should not be put to work because they cannot make responsible decision for themselves at a young age. That's why (at least here) you can quit school with 15 years and learn a craft, not before that. If an 8 year old boy comes up to you and says "Hey, I want to work at your company!" is he making a responsible decision? No, he's not. Because his brain is not developed enough, he's not educated enough and he doesn't have enough experience to be responsible. No decisions should be make by someone who cannot make responsible decisions. That's why there's education.
Maybe the child's choice is as simple as whether or not they're going to eat. I'd say choosing to eat over going to school is a responsible choice. Don't tell the child they can't work, pay them to go to school. If your offer is competitive with the sweatshop wages I'm sure they'll accept.
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On January 04 2013 21:45 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 04 2013 21:40 ElizarTringov wrote:On January 04 2013 21:36 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 21:32 ElizarTringov wrote:On January 04 2013 21:25 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 21:22 ElizarTringov wrote:On January 04 2013 19:50 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:38 Rescawen wrote:On January 04 2013 19:27 DarkLordOlli wrote:On January 04 2013 19:26 Rescawen wrote:
The way I see it is that people in Asia work harder and are smarter at the moment. It is only natural that the system adjusts itself. By that I mean Western people have to start living with less values than before. I mean you cannot expect your own living standards to get better if the Asian people's living standards are getting better. It is a zero sum game. A rising economy and living standard does not mean that people are smarter and more hard working there. There's a million factors to it. This is exactly what I mean, people do not want face the truth. They have been spoiled for generations. The world is not fair, it used to be for Asia and soon its gonna be for the West. The sooner you accept certain facts the easier. Thank you Jesus for pointing out my wrongness. What if their economical and political systems are just working out better for them, thus elevating their financial state? Which is what's happening yo. What I'm saying is that there's a million more factors to this than "they work harder and are smarter". There's tons of aspects in their cultures that are in fact NOT smarter, from women's treatment to child labor and sweatshops. That may seem "smart" right now but once they have the living standards we're used to, they'll be facing the same problems pretty soon. A reality check is in store, yes. But there's more to it than your black and white arguments. Why is child labor not smart? Sweating is good for you so why are sweatshops bad? I can only assume that this is sarcasm No, Andrew Carnegie started working at the age of 13, was he not a child at that age? He became a millionare later in life. I can only wish I had started working as a child with my dad and learned carpentry but instead I stayed in school and have walked away with no real skills from it. Your view of the world is ridiculously absurd then and I suggest you actually go see the conditions these children are forced to work under. They don't choose to work there, they're forced to. They have no past, no present and no future. All they do is sweat and die for people like you. You're naming one person who made it, completely ignoring the circumstances. I could name you a million children who died in the meantime except nobody will ever know their names. Now, tell me again why child labor is smart. I never said the conditions were good, nor did I say I am a fan of forced labor. But the human body was made for work, children can obviously take less loads of work than adults, but other than that I see nothing wrong with it. What a completely pointless thing to say. This is your opinion and nothing else. Children should not be put to work because they cannot make responsible decision for themselves at a young age. That's why (at least here) you can quit school with 15 years and learn a craft, not before that. If an 8 year old boy comes up to you and says "Hey, I want to work at your company!" is he making a responsible decision? No, he's not. Because his brain is not developed enough, he's not educated enough and he doesn't have enough experience to be responsible. No decisions should be make by someone who cannot make responsible decisions. That's why there's education.
Is a child responsible enough at the age of 8 to say "Hey I want to go to school!"? He isn't educated enough to make such a decision, his brain is not developed enough to know weather he really wants to go. School doesn't not teach responsibility. School teaches the fake responsibility of homework rather than the real responsibility of work.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2012/02/Chinese%20UST%20holdings.jpg)
