The Parti Quebecois. - Page 4

On January 19 2013 06:44 RavenLoud wrote:

"Treason to the crown" HAHAHAHA

On January 19 2013 06:44 RavenLoud wrote:
Being a first year student at McGill, the cuts to the university fundings makes me absolutely furious. There also has been price increase for tabacco products but that doesn't bother me that much since I don't smoke. I'm still more confident about PQ's ability to get the debt under control compared to the PLQ but removing funding to universities is simply stupid.

I have to say that this attitude of "PQ being environmentalist leftist isolationalist" isn't really that accurate. In fact, Marois has indicated that she is open to talk about the construction of a pipeline from Alberta to Quebec despite the local unpopularity of such act. (Meanwhile, BC and Alberta continue to wrestle on similar issues..)

EDIT: As immigrants, I have absolute confidence in saying that I'd get less discrimination in Quebec than most of the rest of the world, even in developed countries. In fact, my grandma who came to visit us from Asia without speaking a single word of French once said that Quebecers/Canadians are probably the nicest people on Earth. (Don't know about that, but compared to mainland China where she lives, I think that's understandable lol). She was amazed by the fact that random people would open doors for her, help her with bags and even give change to her when she shops because she didn't understand the money that well at first.


"Treason to the crown" HAHAHAHA

On January 19 2013 07:57 Abraxas514 wrote:


What with all the moronic laughing? In Canada we refer to our federal government as "the crown". We have a picture of the queen on our money (monstly coins). You make yourself look really dumb by laughing at that.

On January 19 2013 08:07 Grimmyman123 wrote:


Yes, treason to the crown. You are a university student, yes?

As for Quebecers being polite - I contest that, I've been treated horribly in quebec simply because my french was not satisfactory, many times.

Sorry, this topic infuriates me so. I'm done.

On January 19 2013 08:50 Djzapz wrote:

There are so many things that are wrong with that, I don't know why you people insist on defending your ridiculous BS.

In Canada we don't refer to our federal government as "the crown" Abraxas514, nobody ever does that. We refer to the Monarchy of Canada as "the crown", not the entire government. As I'm sure you know, the Queen of Canada (more commonly known as the Queen of the UK) is the head of State of our country, but that's only by law.

To use that particular terminology "Treason to thr Crown" is ridiculous for two reasons
First: To betray the monarchy of Canada is a ridiculous concept. Fuck the Queen and everything she represents in our country. An outdated monarchy has no place in a modern democracy. Canada needs to get rid of that fluff. Legal reforms are required. Technical but impractical laws don't apply in real life and should therefore be purged from common language. Progress, please. Let's not sit back on our rotting constitution.
Second: The definition of the word "treason". Maybe you're using a convenient one, that is poorly worded. Being technically unpatriotic is not treason though, and any honest person knows that. You may not be honest.

You think being ridiculed is bad, but you deserved it. Some "arguments" are so bad that they deserve nothing more than to be laughed at. I was nice enough to give you a little rundown but don't butcher the English language by using the word treason like that again. People do the same thing with the word terrorist so much that it loses its value.


No not treason to the crown . Not signing a constitution but adhering to it is not treason. I gave a quick crash course above. This is a province which democratically agreed to live under a constitution in which it did not agree in the name of democracy. It's in opposition to it, but agrees with it regardless. If you ask me, it takes a fair amount of patriotism in a nation to accept this, even if you might say a true patriot would bend over and take it in the ass for your majesty Elizabeth. We've still got our minds and that's okay.

I'm sorry you had bad experiences in QC, we have our fair share of bad apples, but most of us are fine folks who look down on the behavior of the trash that roams some of our streets. I want to say that when I was in Banff for less than I week, I had bad experiences with anglophones twice. They didn't like me speaking French with my friends, they didn't like my accent... Yet most of the people I encountered were great, and it's a shame that I came across bad people. I'm sorry that you did as well.

On January 19 2013 09:26 Abraxas514 wrote:


Unfortunately for you, "fuck the queen" isnt a valid argument. The crown is just another word for federal things in canada, look up crown corporation for example.

Just because quebec didnt sign the canada charter doesnt mean they arent bound by it. Canada always let quebec do what it wanted because montreal was the capital and powerhouse for so long. Today the province is a shadow of its former self.

On January 19 2013 08:07 Grimmyman123 wrote:


Yes, treason to the crown. You are a university student, yes?

As for Quebecers being polite - I contest that, I've been treated horribly in quebec simply because my french was not satisfactory, many times.

Sorry, this topic infuriates me so. I'm done.

On January 19 2013 10:01 RavenLoud wrote:

The Crown is not the way we refer to the government, I've never heard anyone do it anyway. This is not 1904 anymore, Canada's a big boy now and the UK no longer have any real authority on us.

Seriously, I work at a post office, and people would often specifically ask me to not give those stamps with the Queen's picture. (Although Kate & William ones are embraced with glee for some reason.)

I'm sorry about your bad experiences, but I'm afraid I've never had these even when I was learning french. It's not really an excuse to get angry yourself and start insulting Quebecers. Fighting discrimination with more discrimination isn't how it's done. You're becoming what you hate while contributing to the problem.

On a side note, do you think a guy who only speaks french would run into some discrimination in, say, Alberta?

EDIT: I think anti-Quebec arguments are done pretty poorly in this thread overall. I'm far from a separatist but I find myself being forced to defend Quebec rofl.

On January 19 2013 09:31 Djzapz wrote:

The "fuck the queen" part was not the argument, I guess that's why you chose not to address the substance of my post.
And then you go on to insult Quebec and fine if that's what you're into. Good constructive work on your part.

Edit: but "fuck the queen" makes an interesting point in that merely saying it does not make a traitor out of me. Disagreeing with "her" constitutionally, even less so.

On December 14 2012 04:31 Abraxas514 wrote:


My only point about the mayors was that us city-people really distrust our leaders at this moment in time.


Here is the map from wikipedia of the universities in Quebec. Compare that to the electoral map if you wish.


As you can see, no universities in the north.

Here is a quick photoshop I made of universities/cities of quebec, versus electorial map:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/107275289/Quebec.jpg

On January 19 2013 11:07 cz wrote:


Depends. Nobody talks about "the crown" in common conversation, but it is obliquely referenced in terms like "crown prosecutor" or "crown corporation."

On January 19 2013 11:08 Abraxas514 wrote:


Actually i answered in short because i was on a friends ipad (in french lol). I agree the queen is vestigial but she does still represent us, and therefore the word i used.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monarchy_of_Canada

I am not insulting french canadians. I am upset with the PQ and anti-anglo sentiment. With people who get upset if you say bonjour/hi. Who really believe english is still a threat. I dated a girl who honestly believed that (from st-jean) and have dealt with many clients who got upset when i said "hi" (i worked as a host for Kelsey's).

So far i havent seen one post addressing the topic: why is the PQ actually good for this province?

On January 19 2013 11:08 Abraxas514 wrote:
Who really believe english is still a threat. I dated a girl who honestly believed that (from st-jean) and have dealt with many clients who got upset when i said "hi" (i worked as a host for Kelsey's).

On January 19 2013 11:44 Djzapz wrote:

Being that I'm a masters student of political science, I know the place of the Queen, and vestigial is the right word. In French we say "caduc". Legally she "represents us" but in real life she doesn't. From a legal perspective, we can say the powers are "derived" from the Queen but really it's just a technicality. Any treason is committed against the true sovereign and in this case I would argue that it's the population, or the State which represents the population. Not the Queen, who's an expensive mascot.

Now we can talk about the PQ all day and undoubtedly we'll disagree, but let me make my case very quickly. Like I said before, QC elected the PQ as a minority government during the brutal and fast decline of the PLQ's popularity. This decline was brought forward by the discovery that the provincial government (and many of its municipalities, for which it is responsible) were heavily corrupt. This led many voters, many of which aren't separatists, to vote for what was perceived as a "lesser evil", that is the PQ. Additionally, Quebecers are generally farther on the left than the rest of Canada, which like I said before, makes them a good vote as far as the left/right debate goes. There are also a bunch of separatists who aren't extremists at all, but view the entire situation as desperate. I have absolutely no hate for anglophones, but I don't think we'll ever get along - and this thread reinforces that belief of mine.

But let's talk about the language thing. Yes, obviously the PQ pushes legislation which aims to promote the French language, and it's unfortunately done at the detriment of anglophones who would like to live here. This kind of legislation doesn't seem to make sense anymore but please understand that a while ago, it did. I won't bother with the history lesson but it was only a few decades ago that my grandparents were essentially inferior to anglophones even in Montreal. When the equality movements started kicking in, there was a counterbalance effect that led Quebec legislators to turn Montreal into a French city, as previously, business conducted in Montreal was in English despite the overwhelming francophone majority.

This "shift", was kind of abrupt because francophones were getting out of many generations of folks who were a sort of subspecies, downside of being a conquered people. This also kind of explains why our French is butchered so badly.

Now things have been good for decades, but bad blood between the nations doesn't go away so easily, especially not when Quebec gets heavily criticized for a bunch of reasons - some legitimate, others not so much. And I'm not blaming the rest of Canada here - francophones have not been exceedingly cooperative either. That said, we have differences which border on irreconcilable. Our left-leaning politics tick off the rest of Canada, and the less-left-leaning politics of Canada look bad to us for instance. I could go for hours on how our differences, cultural and otherwise, make our compatibility as people very limited.

All this to say, the outdated BS from the PQ has its roots somewhere, and we can't just ignore that and attack its pool of voters, those people have had a broad array of reasons to vote for the PQ, and they're not necessarily hateful hicks.


As for seeing English as a "threat"' well that's a bit more complicated. I guess to put it simply, some people think that our cultural baggage is to be preserved, and that we should fight to prevent it from being "diluted". There's something sad about the idea that in 3-4 generations, maybe 10, maybe more, our specific "type" French may cease to exist. The fact is the language has no actual utility in North America. The thing about a language is you can't shove it in a museum really. When it dies it's gone. My contention is that NA French will inevitably die off, as will every language we know in their actual form. In 1000+ years, if there still is such a thing as English, it won't be anything like what we have today. So why even bother trying to preserve it? On the other hand, there's something downright insulting and patronizing in the idea that we should just let it go. I'm sure that in many cases there's no malice behind it, but the fact of the matter is, QC French is slowly, naturally, losing ground. And if you view this as unimportant, then that's your opinion - but we don't all feel that way. Some people feel very strongly about it, regardless of the fact that it's perhaps irrational.

Edit: The point I try to make in the last paragraph is essentially that if left to the economic concept of supply and demand, French would die off in North America because it's uneconomical already and it's getting worse. That's why Quebec, in some ways, tries to put itself in a vacuum, because without it, French will disappear quicker. It comes with many many downsides, and maybe it's dumb, but people view the preservation of the culture as highly important. And also, we have the douchebags - and I want to say, I'm sorry you've had some poor experiences here.

On January 19 2013 12:14 Abraxas514 wrote:


Well put. I agree with your deconstruction of the political situation. Preservation of society is important but the method of "disconnection from your country" is as poorly thought out as a kid running away from home to preserve his independance. Quebec needs the transfer payments. They need non francophone business. The romans believed all countries should adopt their culture, but in this case the opposite is mostly true. Canada as a whole should take a lesson on our views on drugs, education and liberalism in general, and quebec should embrace the multicultural apporach canada takes and promote real bilingualism instead of squeezing english away.

On January 19 2013 08:50 Djzapz wrote:

There are so many things that are wrong with that, I don't know why you people insist on defending your ridiculous BS.

In Canada we don't refer to our federal government as "the crown" Abraxas514, nobody ever does that. We refer to the Monarchy of Canada as "the crown", not the entire government. As I'm sure you know, the Queen of Canada (more commonly known as the Queen of the UK) is the head of State of our country, but that's only by law.

To use that particular terminology "Treason to the Crown" is ridiculous for two reasons
First: To betray the monarchy of Canada is a ridiculous concept. Fuck the Queen and everything she represents in our country. An outdated monarchy has no place in a modern democracy. Canada needs to get rid of that fluff. Legal reforms are required. Technical but impractical laws don't apply in real life and should therefore be purged from common language. Progress, please. Let's not sit back on our rotting constitution.
Second: The definition of the word "treason". Maybe you're using a convenient one, that is poorly worded. Being technically unpatriotic is not treason though, and any honest person knows that. You may not be honest.

You think being ridiculed is bad, but you deserved it. Some "arguments" are so bad that they deserve nothing more than to be laughed at. I was nice enough to give you a little rundown but don't butcher the English language by using the word treason like that again. People do the same thing with the word terrorist so much that it loses its value.


No not treason to the crown . Not signing a constitution but adhering to it is not treason. I gave a quick crash course above. This is a province which democratically agreed to live under a constitution in which it did not agree in the name of democracy. It's in opposition to it, but agrees with it regardless. If you ask me, it takes a fair amount of patriotism in a nation to accept this, even if you might say a true patriot would bend over and take it in the ass for your majesty Elizabeth. We've still got our minds and that's okay.

I'm sorry you had bad experiences in QC, we have our fair share of bad apples, but most of us are fine folks who look down on the behavior of the trash that roams some of our streets. I want to say that when I was in Banff for less than I week, I had bad experiences with anglophones twice. They didn't like me speaking French with my friends, they didn't like my accent... Yet most of the people I encountered were great, and it's a shame that I came across bad people. I'm sorry that you did as well.