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United States42008 Posts
On August 26 2017 04:38 LegalLord wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that it really doesn't matter, that neither one is really anything to be offended about?
There are plenty of living African Americans today who have been used by their government for medical testing when primates were unavailable or otherwise inconvenient to test on. I think it's reasonable to wait a little bit longer before deciding that nobody could possibly mean that people with black skin are less than human.
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On August 26 2017 04:47 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2017 04:38 LegalLord wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that it really doesn't matter, that neither one is really anything to be offended about? There are plenty of living African Americans today who have been used by their government for medical testing when primates were unavailable or otherwise inconvenient to test on. I think it's reasonable to wait a little bit longer before deciding that nobody could possibly mean that people with black skin are less than human.
Or to deride caring about these issues as "political correctness"
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On August 26 2017 04:38 LegalLord wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that it really doesn't matter, that neither one is really anything to be offended about?
LL, Are you or have you ever been an african-american?
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there's an entire history of African-Americans being viewed as less human less civilized and more apelike. read any comic strip through the 1940s and just look at how their drawn.
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On August 26 2017 04:39 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2017 04:38 LegalLord wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that it really doesn't matter, that neither one is really anything to be offended about? Queue 5 page discussion on hippy liberals being offended over words.
But then another 5 page discussion about silencing free speech! Words are both harmless and must be protected at all cost because of the power of ideas.
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ESPN was just too trigger happy here. They acted way before the controversy manifested instead of waiting for at least one person to be offended. Of course, if you know Disney, that is their corporate culture. Disney is proactively ahead of of hurting their brand image and will shit can anyone who gets near threatening the magic.
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On August 26 2017 04:27 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2017 04:19 KwarK wrote:
I disagree with Plansix. Homophones are fine unless someone is clearly using them to disguise what their meaning evidently is. They can be fine, but you need to explain them over and over. And fully accept that they can appear racists without full context. People make the mistake of ignoring the racist overtones or going full denial by saying “its not racist”, rather than simply owning all of the meanings.
guerilla doesn't have multiple meanings. i'm no tennis pro- but if guerilla tennis is a style of tennis (google says it is) then it's a style of tennis. to say a williams sister can't play guerilla tennis because she's black is racist. not the other way around..
if a persons argument is that guerilla tennis isn't a thing- then i totally understand and if that's the truth he's probably racist garbage. but what little research i've done says this isn't the case. On August 26 2017 04:23 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2017 03:55 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 26 2017 03:27 Plansix wrote:
I swear that half of the people writing these articles lived in an alternate reality growing up. I’ve watched people get fired for liking black people as monkeys, apes and guerrilla’s since the 80s and 90s. In any number of contexts, accidental, harmless and intentional. This is nothing new and not political correctness being out of control. I can't quite tell if you are making a joke, or if I somehow missed guerilla (like the freedom fighter variety, not gorilla) being a race-associated term? I would say that coming from a sports announcer/writer/etc., intentional sound and word association is far more likely than from an average person. Those people are absolutely obsessed with puns, especially when it comes to nicknaming and the like. I mean, decent chance of it being innocent, if poorly chosen, words. But as a sportscaster, there will be the automatic "hyuk hyuk what clever wordplay" response, no matter the intent.
have you been watching too much Phreak casting? i've never encountered a professional announcer go out of their way to make puns. especially when it comes to play by play casting? they typically are trying to be as concise and accurate as possible. i know this happened months ago but was there actually any live acknowledgement of a possible racial slur// 'play on words?' for lack of a better phrase.
edit:: there was not. nobody pat themselves on the back there for some racist puns.
On August 26 2017 05:02 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2017 04:58 brian wrote:On August 26 2017 04:27 Plansix wrote:On August 26 2017 04:19 KwarK wrote:
I disagree with Plansix. Homophones are fine unless someone is clearly using them to disguise what their meaning evidently is. They can be fine, but you need to explain them over and over. And fully accept that they can appear racists without full context. People make the mistake of ignoring the racist overtones or going full denial by saying “its not racist”, rather than simply owning all of the meanings. guerilla doesn't have multiple meanings. i'm no tennis pro- but if guerilla tennis is a style of tennis (google says it is) then it's a style of tennis. to say a williams sister can't play guerilla tennis because she's black is racist. not the other way around.. if a persons argument is that guerilla tennis isn't a thing- then i totally understand and if that's the truth he's probably racist garbage. but what little research i've done says this isn't the case. this seems like it's avoiding the actual point and issue. you do get waht the actual issue is, right?
im not going to waste more post space for such a ridiculous question?
i mean if the man had called her a gorilla he deserves everything that came to him. i have no reason to think he did? i guess he put himself in this position, but to deny Venus the ability to play guerilla tennis just because it sounds like gorilla is just as racist.
again i'm no tennis pro, but it seems like he didn't make this up on his own. it's totally plausible he called the woman a gorilla, but before taking away his livelihood i guess i'd prefer he get the benefit of the doubt.
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On August 26 2017 04:58 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2017 04:27 Plansix wrote:On August 26 2017 04:19 KwarK wrote:
I disagree with Plansix. Homophones are fine unless someone is clearly using them to disguise what their meaning evidently is. They can be fine, but you need to explain them over and over. And fully accept that they can appear racists without full context. People make the mistake of ignoring the racist overtones or going full denial by saying “its not racist”, rather than simply owning all of the meanings. guerilla doesn't have multiple meanings. i'm no tennis pro- but if guerilla tennis is a style of tennis (google says it is) then it's a style of tennis. to say a williams sister can't play guerilla tennis because she's black is racist. not the other way around.. if a persons argument is that guerilla tennis isn't a thing- then i totally understand and if that's the truth he's probably racist garbage. but what little research i've done says this isn't the case.
this seems like it's avoiding the actual point and issue. you do get waht the actual issue is, right?
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On August 26 2017 04:39 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2017 04:38 LegalLord wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks that it really doesn't matter, that neither one is really anything to be offended about? Queue 5 page discussion on hippy liberals being offended over words.
The weird thing- to me, at least- is that conservatives get super offended over certain terms as well... just different words than liberals do. At least liberals acknowledge it though. (Same goes with how the Republican party doesn't want "smaller government"- they just want government intervention for different things than the Democrats do; at least the Democrats acknowledge the importance of government.)
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brian, don't shitpost like that. a) my question is very valid, given that you seem to be strawmanning rather than arguing against the actual objection, and you acted like you didn't udnerstand the actual double meaning issue.
more importantly, don't answer a question by editing in the answer to a previous post. that confuses the train of discussion. if you watn to reply, use reply, or edit a later post to add the reply, not editing an earlier one. what you did was straight up shitposting.
and now you're editing it yet again; since you're continuing to shitpost I'll regard you as such and ignore you.
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On August 26 2017 05:16 zlefin wrote:
brian, don't shitpost like that. a) my question is very valid, given that you seem to be strawmanning rather than arguing against the actual objection, and you acted like you didn't udnerstand the actual double meaning issue.
more importantly, don't answer a question by editing in the answer to a previous post. that confuses the train of discussion. if you watn to reply, use reply, or edit a later post to add the reply, not editing an earlier one. what you did was straight up shitposting.
you're not my mother. your post was ridiculous. i edited in the response because a one word 'yes' to your absurdity would've been the shitpost. go troll elsewhere.
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On August 26 2017 05:17 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2017 05:16 zlefin wrote:
brian, don't shitpost like that. a) my question is very valid, given that you seem to be strawmanning rather than arguing against the actual objection, and you acted like you didn't udnerstand the actual double meaning issue.
more importantly, don't answer a question by editing in the answer to a previous post. that confuses the train of discussion. if you watn to reply, use reply, or edit a later post to add the reply, not editing an earlier one. what you did was straight up shitposting. you're not my mother. your post was ridiculous. i edited in the response because a one word 'yes' to your absurdity would've been the shitpost. go troll elsewhere.
a rich tactic to accuse others of wha tyou yourself did, troll. shame on you. own up to your failure rather than deflecting to others.
User was warned for this post
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On August 26 2017 04:58 brian wrote:
guerilla doesn't have multiple meanings. i'm no tennis pro- but if guerilla tennis is a style of tennis (google says it is) then it's a style of tennis. to say a williams sister can't play guerilla tennis because she's black is racist. not the other way around..
That isn’t how words or public opinion works. I don’t think they should have fired him instantly. Anyone in media knows that using any term related to primates when talking about black people can be a huge problem and to be careful with their language. If the style is so common, how has no other announcer has been fired for using it about Williams? She has been playing tennis for a long time.
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i guess we have different opinions on language here. again you're just going straight to the assumption that he said gorilla, and i just don't see it.
if this commentary had been in writing would you feel the same?
point well taken about public opinion, though i prefer that not be the standard of whether something is right or wrong
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On August 26 2017 05:30 brian wrote:
i guess we have different opinions on language here. again you're just going straight to the assumption that he said gorilla, and i just don't see it.
if this commentary had been in writing would you feel the same?
point well taken about public opinion, though i prefer that not be the standard of whether something is right or wrong
I am not assuming anything about his intent. His intent doesn’t matter. To people not into tennis, that is all they heard. That is the default position that most people will take, because they are used to racist referring to black people as gorilla. Anyone in media knows that will be the default unless you are overwhelming clear.
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I don't really see why they should have fired him though... that's just going too far for being offended. I'd argue that that word belongs into the space of common knowledge, even if you're not aware of it having usage in tennis as well. I sure didn't but as it turns out it does andt doesn't look like it's something he made up on the spot.
also, til guerilla is homophone to (with?) gorilla in english. We pronounce it a bit different in german and I would have figured it's just the same. Maybe that really makes the difference for you guys.
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Probably worth pointing out, not that the discussion will care at any point, that "Guerilla Tennis" does not seem to be a thing at all. I've personally never heard it used (and I do follow Tennis), but after googling...
The only things not related to this "drama": The original Nike commercial is two tennis pros randomly breaking out into a rally in the middle of the street, and Urban Dictionary defining it as smacking random objects around with a tennis racket in public spaces. Nothing that seems to show up in common "Tennis Terminology" lists.
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Yeah, I have never heard of it and using the phrase: guerilla charging, does not evoke what people seem to claim that term means.
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On August 26 2017 04:58 brian wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2017 04:23 WolfintheSheep wrote:On August 26 2017 03:55 Liquid`Jinro wrote:On August 26 2017 03:27 Plansix wrote:
I swear that half of the people writing these articles lived in an alternate reality growing up. I’ve watched people get fired for liking black people as monkeys, apes and guerrilla’s since the 80s and 90s. In any number of contexts, accidental, harmless and intentional. This is nothing new and not political correctness being out of control. I can't quite tell if you are making a joke, or if I somehow missed guerilla (like the freedom fighter variety, not gorilla) being a race-associated term? I would say that coming from a sports announcer/writer/etc., intentional sound and word association is far more likely than from an average person. Those people are absolutely obsessed with puns, especially when it comes to nicknaming and the like. I mean, decent chance of it being innocent, if poorly chosen, words. But as a sportscaster, there will be the automatic "hyuk hyuk what clever wordplay" response, no matter the intent. have you been watching too much Phreak casting? i've never encountered a professional announcer go out of their way to make puns. especially when it comes to play by play casting? they typically are trying to be as concise and accurate as possible. i know this happened months ago but was there actually any live acknowledgement of a possible racial slur// 'play on words?' for lack of a better phrase. edit:: there was not. nobody pat themselves on the back there for some racist puns.
Really? You never seen a single Usain Bolt headline? Never heard "Linsanity"?
Or, maybe more relevant, didn't see the "Chink in his Armor" lines about Jeremy Lin?
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As an Asian guy I thought that line was pretty funny. I mean, racist, but funny kinda like KwarK's vegetable joke.
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EPT
