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On October 13 2012 19:58 Ysellian wrote:
-_- Jeez they sure have a lot in life.
Is social isolation comparable to children suffering from diseases and famine? No, of course not, but just because there is something worse doesn't mean that it isn't horrible in it's own right and psychological diseases are very very real. The human mind is both amazing and frightening, people left isolated with nobody to support you will just spiral downwards.
You make it sound like it's ineviteable. Yet there are children/teenagers who´ve been through much worse than having no friends and being bullied (say, being raped, physically abused etc.) and don't have the sudden impulse to kill themselves. The relation between what people did to her and what her reaction to it was, is just totally out of line. You don't commit suicide over being bullied. Period. I mean, what's next? Oh damn, my grades in school are bad, I better go kill myself. Oh noes, my girlfriend/boyfriend broke up with me, better go commit suicide. Come on..
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On October 13 2012 20:07 TemNoc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 19:48 Narw wrote:
You do understand that depression is a disease right? That it affects how you behave and affects how you feel and in most cases requres proffesional medical treatment?
TLDR - you disgust me.
No. AIDS is a disease. Malaria is a disease. Cholera is a disease. Depression is a state of mind, resulting from the person affected being unable to deal with its surroundings and/or life itself.
Wow you're ignorant. Please back up your argument with your medical qualifications.
Depression IS a disease and has been considered a medical disease for a long time.
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Russian Federation266 Posts
The whole situation looks weird to me. I personally see nothing wrong with stuff like flashing on the webcam or having weird interests and all the other stuff people are commonly bullied for, that's probably because you got to have specific "bully mentality" or something like that. Her response to this is also pretty inadequate, I guess it's well known to anyone that the only proper reaction to bullying is ignoring it, and if the bullies make ignoring them impossible by going violent and harassing you in real life and not in the social network then there are legal means of protection available. There is no reason whatsoever a sane person would hurt him/herself or even suicide for such reason, that's just beyond illogical.
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On October 13 2012 20:17 TemNoc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 19:58 Ysellian wrote:
-_- Jeez they sure have a lot in life.
Is social isolation comparable to children suffering from diseases and famine? No, of course not, but just because there is something worse doesn't mean that it isn't horrible in it's own right and psychological diseases are very very real. The human mind is both amazing and frightening, people left isolated with nobody to support you will just spiral downwards.
You make it sound like it's ineviteable. Yet there are children/teenagers who´ve been through much worse than having no friends and being bullied (say, being raped, physically abused etc.) and don't have the sudden impulse to kill themselves. The relation between what people did to her and what her reaction to it was, is just totally out of line. You don't commit suicide over being bullied. Period. I mean, what's next? Oh damn, my grades in school are bad, I better go kill myself. Oh noes, my girlfriend/boyfriend broke up with me, better go commit suicide. Come on..
Ask yourself the question: In what state of mind does a person need to be in for them to contemplate suicide? Throwing yourself into nothingness, game over and become nothing but a clump of carbon. Just because you can't picture this doesn't mean that what they are feeling isn't real. I agree though it's not inevitable, nor are most diseases and famine, but it needs to be treated.
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On October 13 2012 20:25 Fen2 wrote:
Wow you're ignorant. Please back up your argument with your medical qualifications.
Depression IS a disease and has been considered a medical disease for a long time.
It's not like you are actually backing up anything either. Depression is being referred to as a disease only by popular demand, just like stress/burnouts, obesity and all kinds of addictions. It basically is like this: I have a problem, I have too weak of a will to help myself, so the only rational conclusion is: I must be sick / have some sort of disease. All problems in modern society have been handled like this. But let me tell you one thing; obesity isnt a disease, it is just you eating too much. Addictions are no disease, it is just you, who needs to stop drinking/whatever you´re doing. And depression is no disease, it is just you, who needs to stop bitching about your life.
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On October 13 2012 20:25 Fen2 wrote:
Depression IS a disease and has been considered a medical disease for a long time.
Awesome, I'm calling in sick today......-__
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On October 13 2012 20:39 TemNoc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 20:25 Fen2 wrote:
Wow you're ignorant. Please back up your argument with your medical qualifications.
Depression IS a disease and has been considered a medical disease for a long time. It's not like you are actually backing up anything either. Depression is being referred to as a disease only by popular demand, just like stress/burnouts, obesity and all kinds of addictions. It basically is like this: I have a problem, I have too weak of a will to help myself, so the only rational conclusion is: I must be sick / have some sort of disease. All problems in modern society have been handled like this. But let me tell you one thing; obesity isnt a disease, it is just you eating too much. Addictions are no disease, it is just you, who needs to stop drinking/whatever you´re doing. And depression is no disease, it is just you, who needs to stop bitching about your life.
Are you speaking from experience from overcoming your environment? Or are you speaking from an advantageous position of never having to deal with being on the social periphery?
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On October 13 2012 20:39 TemNoc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 20:25 Fen2 wrote:
Wow you're ignorant. Please back up your argument with your medical qualifications.
Depression IS a disease and has been considered a medical disease for a long time. It's not like you are actually backing up anything either. Depression is being referred to as a disease only by popular demand, just like stress/burnouts, obesity and all kinds of addictions. It basically is like this: I have a problem, I have too weak of a will to help myself, so the only rational conclusion is: I must be sick / have some sort of disease. All problems in modern society have been handled like this. But let me tell you one thing; obesity isnt a disease, it is just you eating too much. Addictions are no disease, it is just you, who needs to stop drinking/whatever you´re doing. And depression is no disease, it is just you, who needs to stop bitching about your life.
Its a mental disorder
Being depressed =/= Suicidal behavior
But may lead there in severe cases.
There are many things we dont know about mental disorders but "The effectiveness of antidepressants is none to minimal in those with mild or moderate depression but significant in those with very severe cases." from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_depressive_disorder
Disclaimer the following is my personal conclusions and experiences:
As many mental disorders they seem to be mostly a classification of symptoms that seem to generally coincide in both occurence and treatment.
I hope that you never get to experience the following but will still be able to understand. You can reach the point were leaving this life feels like best solution even when you know that it probably isnt by applying logic. The logic still cant change the feeling.
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Pretty sad, she was my neighbours niece.
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On October 13 2012 20:17 TemNoc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 19:58 Ysellian wrote:
-_- Jeez they sure have a lot in life.
Is social isolation comparable to children suffering from diseases and famine? No, of course not, but just because there is something worse doesn't mean that it isn't horrible in it's own right and psychological diseases are very very real. The human mind is both amazing and frightening, people left isolated with nobody to support you will just spiral downwards.
You make it sound like it's ineviteable. Yet there are children/teenagers who´ve been through much worse than having no friends and being bullied (say, being raped, physically abused etc.) and don't have the sudden impulse to kill themselves. The relation between what people did to her and what her reaction to it was, is just totally out of line. You don't commit suicide over being bullied. Period. I mean, what's next? Oh damn, my grades in school are bad, I better go kill myself. Oh noes, my girlfriend/boyfriend broke up with me, better go commit suicide. Come on..
You're right, we shouldn't let people kill themselves. We should stop them before they reach a point where they would want to. That's the only logical conclusion to what you're saying. That, or you're saying that noone has ever committed suicide.
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On October 13 2012 21:20 HellRoxYa wrote:
You're right, we shouldn't let people kill themselves. We should stop them before they reach a point where they would want to. That's the only logical conclusion to what you're saying. That, or you're saying that noone has ever committed suicide.
Neither nor, actually. You might want to re-read my post, as I didn't imply anything like that. And where is that "noone has ever committed suicide" coming from? Can't see the relation to this at all, sorry.
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On October 13 2012 18:21 Vestrel wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 17:38 Smug wrote:
However we have a very tinted version of the story and I want you all to remember that. Yes her bullies were very much in the wrong and that is beyond doubt. But I think Amanda Todd is much less someone who was severely depressed, more a teenager that got herself into a state over the events that occurred and made a decision to end her life in the heat of the moment. "In the heat of the moment"? This went on long enough for her to switch schools and move multiple times. With no friends, severe depression, relentless hate that followed her wherever she went, and no hope to move on from her mistakes, do you really think she simply worked herself up and just kinda decided to commit suicide?
In my experience (pretty limited although from observations + sister has had severe schizophrenia for past 8 years and been in and out of mental units) there are two vague groups of people who commit suicide. Those who plan it silently, acting normal in order to not tip anyone off to their intentions and those that almost move too fast to think the situation through, and to decide whether it's the right decision.
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On October 13 2012 20:17 TemNoc wrote:
You make it sound like it's ineviteable. Yet there are children/teenagers who´ve been through much worse than having no friends and being bullied (say, being raped, physically abused etc.) and don't have the sudden impulse to kill themselves. The relation between what people did to her and what her reaction to it was, is just totally out of line. You don't commit suicide over being bullied. Period. I mean, what's next? Oh damn, my grades in school are bad, I better go kill myself. Oh noes, my girlfriend/boyfriend broke up with me, better go commit suicide. Come on..
Gratz, did you just discover people are different from each others ?
That's like, one of the first thing you learn when you start studying psychology.
The question isn't about why did she suicides, but why she shouldn't. You can totally be raped in your past, but still have friends, back-up, or just a goal in life, anything that can just let you continue to appreciate life. Some people will need a lot of reconfort to be back in track in tough situations, while others don't give a fuck in awful ones. Not like everyone can be as strong as you are - because you probably think you are, true or not, not if that matters anyway - nor will make absolutely no mistake their entire life.
Hell, there even are people who suicide just because of boredom.
I'll not say it's not stupid, but I can understand the process.
Cause in the end, suicide still is a stupid act, whatever the reason is.
That being said, you were wrong two times. First of all, she didn't have a sudden impulse to put an end to her life. It took something like months, maybe years ? And a lot of tries too. Not to mention the schools. It let a lot of times to prevent her from doing that.
And it already happens that some guys suicide because of failed grades at school. You know, being under pressure from the family, those things, it can really mess with the mind of a young person.
When one think about himself as a failure, it's really hard to give them confidence once again.
Especially when the only one to do it is a psychiatrist. Because, well, rest of the time, he's on his own.
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I'm not going to weigh in on this Depression argument because frankly I'm out of my depth, not that it seems many other people really care about that...
I'd love to know though how this was actually let to happen? In all seriousness there wasn't one person in any of her schools willing to stand up for her? It's on a different scale completely granted but I went out of my way to befriend people who were getting bullied, stopped fights, with my decisions being constantly challenged
"Why are you friends with that freak" etc etc
I am just shocked to find out there was so little response as far as I can tell and also the crazy pack mentality these school children had.
The person that was bullying her too..Wow...That's just sick. There's not even any possible chance you can view it as just schoolyard bullying & something that went a little too far. It was malicious, targeted and frankly frightening that someone could possibly go that far.. Sickening really.
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If youv got no friends and are hated by everyone why would you use facebook.
If that were me id have moved like she did, stopped using that facebook or maybe any form of social media, changed name and appearance a bit, started again fresh. I doubt her parents would have minded any of this considering she was suicidal.
She shouldn't be put in this position to start with ofc but stuff like this is pretty hard to stop. People instead need to learn to not share excessive information over the internet.
Also depression is definitely a disease anyone contesting that is ignorant. Its not just about willpower and hurdles etc there are actual biological factors behind it, its not just like being unhappy.
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On October 13 2012 21:44 Lysteria wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 20:17 TemNoc wrote:
You make it sound like it's ineviteable. Yet there are children/teenagers who´ve been through much worse than having no friends and being bullied (say, being raped, physically abused etc.) and don't have the sudden impulse to kill themselves. The relation between what people did to her and what her reaction to it was, is just totally out of line. You don't commit suicide over being bullied. Period. I mean, what's next? Oh damn, my grades in school are bad, I better go kill myself. Oh noes, my girlfriend/boyfriend broke up with me, better go commit suicide. Come on.. Gratz, did you just discover people are different from each others ? That's like, one of the first thing you learn when you start studying psychology. The question isn't about why did she suicides, but why she shouldn't. You can totally be raped in your past, but still have friends, back-up, or just a goal in life, anything that can just let you continue to appreciate life. Some people will need a lot of reconfort to be back in track in tough situations, while others don't give a fuck in awful ones. Not like everyone can be as strong as you are - because you probably think you are, true or not, not if that matters anyway - nor will make absolutely no mistake their entire life. Hell, there even are people who suicide just because of boredom. I'll not say it's not stupid, but I can understand the process. Cause in the end, suicide still is a stupid act, whatever the reason is. That being said, you were wrong two times. First of all, she didn't have a sudden impulse to put an end to her life. It took something like months, maybe years ? And a lot of tries too. Not to mention the schools. It let a lot of times to prevent her from doing that. And it already happens that some guys suicide because of failed grades at school. You know, being under pressure from the family, those things, it can really mess with the mind of a young person. When one think about himself as a failure, it's really hard to give them confidence once again. Especially when the only one to do it is a psychiatrist. Because, well, rest of the time, he's on his own.
No idea what you´re talking about, but you seem to have missed my point entirely. Maybe re-read the post I was replying to for more context.
As for your 2nd paragraph, I really do think it's about why somebody would suicide. You claim people even kill themselves over less than bullying (i.e. bad grades). I say, like I did in a previous post, that this is totally out of proportion. If somebody is really going to end his own life, due to matters like that, it basically means, that he's willing to sacrifice all he has, and all the chances at something he could have, over a temporary problem like being pressured by your parents or bullied at school. To me such a consequence is totally inappropriate and incomprehensible. If a person takes his own life over something like this, it is probably for the better of it anyways, since this very person wouldn't make it much further in his life, without getting to the same point again.
And please don't expect me to shed a single tear for somebody who deliberately ends his life, hurting his entire family and friends (if there are any), giving up all chances and hope for the future and forfeiting at the slightest (yes, I said slightest) obstacle to overcome in ones life.
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On October 13 2012 19:35 TemNoc wrote:
Boo Hoo .. There are people in this world suffering far worse than being bullied and having no friends. How about children that suffer from diseases and famine, while having no access to food or meds. How about children that lose their arms and legs through bombs over a war, they know nothing about yet. And here is this perfectly healthy girl, throwing her life away over something stupid like that. Sorry, but I cannot have any sympathy for people who cannot value what they have in life, and instead decide to waste it. With all due respect - society's better off without people like that.
TL;DR: When I see one more pathetic attentionwhore and/or depressive fool, making youtube videos with cards in their hands, telling us how bad their lifes are, I swear to god, I am gonna start killing them off myself.
The individualistic personality at work. I hope you don't have children, and if you do they are removed from your care. Absolutely pathetic empathy for a childs mistake escalating out of control.
It's funny seeing all of the bully mentality this thread is holding. These are the exact people who would be spitting in her food or pushing her against lockers calling her "whore". Pathetic.
On October 13 2012 20:17 TemNoc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 19:58 Ysellian wrote:
-_- Jeez they sure have a lot in life.
Is social isolation comparable to children suffering from diseases and famine? No, of course not, but just because there is something worse doesn't mean that it isn't horrible in it's own right and psychological diseases are very very real. The human mind is both amazing and frightening, people left isolated with nobody to support you will just spiral downwards.
You make it sound like it's ineviteable. Yet there are children/teenagers who´ve been through much worse than having no friends and being bullied (say, being raped, physically abused etc.) and don't have the sudden impulse to kill themselves. The relation between what people did to her and what her reaction to it was, is just totally out of line. You don't commit suicide over being bullied. Period. I mean, what's next? Oh damn, my grades in school are bad, I better go kill myself. Oh noes, my girlfriend/boyfriend broke up with me, better go commit suicide. Come on..
Chemically some people have drastically different levels of serotonin which is why you see people get bullied much more but stick with it over the ones who resort to suicide. Obviously it's the wrong decision but similar to a bear smothering its cub and killing itself in a cage, that's how the person feels, caged.
http://rense.com/general11/arms.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apotemnophilia
Not entirely related but it shows how different peoples mentalities can be.
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On October 13 2012 17:15 pookadin wrote:
I read in a Reddit post comments from kids who went to her school and neighboring schools, that they are having a party to celebrate her death. WTF..
WTF. Now they may not be sad she is gone but celebrating her death man that is twisted
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On October 13 2012 22:57 TheMooseHeed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 17:15 pookadin wrote:
I read in a Reddit post comments from kids who went to her school and neighboring schools, that they are having a party to celebrate her death. WTF.. WTF. Now they may not be sad she is gone but celebrating her death man that is twisted
They should invite some of the people in this thread, they'd fit right in.
That's absurdly disgusting.
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EPT
