On October 10 2012 17:40 Emporio wrote: However, I do feel like because it is the US, and because of its image and stature in the world, it [i]is[i] more likely to attacked by some fanatical individual or group than, say, the Czech Republic. I think it is not unreasonable or arrogant to put forth the claim that America probably faces a larger risk of potential attack than other Western countries.
Typical US arrogance at its best. US is currently not and never was even in top 10 countries by terrorist attacks.
Amount of people that died from terrorist attacks in US is more than 100 times less than number of civilians killed by US military.
Your second sentance is meaningless. So you believe the Czech Republic is in more danger of terrorist attacks than the US? Do you have any logical reasoning behind that?
Dying, leukemia etc. doesn't matter when it comes to security as being soft on these people will be taken advantage of by real evil guys once found out. The only problem here is that they checked her in public and not at a private room or somthing. The article says she contacted airline ahead of time, but I have to wonder how much airPORT knew about this trip.
On October 11 2012 02:33 Assault_1 wrote: Once you start getting lax on security and adding exceptions you open it up for another 9/11.
Do you actually believe that? TSA screeners haven't stopped a single terrorist attack since it was created, and tests from law enforcement and the media repeatedly prove that they allow dangerous materials onto planes anyway. The only things the TSA does well are stealing shit and embarrassing people.
It's probably safe to assume that the TSA catches few, if any, crimes. I have a combination lock on the gate from my front yard to my back yard. I'm well aware that it only takes a few seconds and a good pair of bolt cutters to bypass that "security" measure. However... it takes a few seconds and a good pair of bolt cutters. A determined thief can still break in, but it's not as easy to do so. The TSA works off of the same principle. It might be possible to get a bomb onto a plane but it's a lot more difficult to do so. It's not a guaranteed preventative measure, but it drives up the resources, time, and planning that it takes. There's some synergy there with law enforcement - the longer it takes to develop an attack, the greater the likelihood something goes wrong and you get caught. Chances are, that's happened before but it doesn't make a big media splash.
Next, let's put ourselves in the shoes of some hapless TSA agent. In comes a patient in a wheelchair, complete with saline bags and bandaging with something obviously under it. Yes, it's far more likely that this is a sick person going to visit their dying relatives than a drug smuggler or terrorist... so you've got a choice, and they both suck. You either do your security check and risk looking like a jerk, or you wave them through and risk missing something important. There's definitely a caveat here: you should still treat people with dignity and respect. If you've got to do a thorough pat-down, take it somewhere private.
I don't particularly enjoy going through TSA security. I don't know if its existence is justified or not; if in the last decade it has prevented even one single incident that could kill 300 people on a plane, does that balance out the inconvenience and occasional abuse of authority? Is this just another slice of freedom that we've lost, another step towards some dystopian authoritarian bureaucracy? I haven't got any answers for those questions, but I think the issues with TSA are a lot more complex than "the lines suck and getting patted down is undignified and I've never seen anyone get caught with a bomb."
On October 11 2012 02:33 Assault_1 wrote: Once you start getting lax on security and adding exceptions you open it up for another 9/11.
Do you actually believe that? TSA screeners haven't stopped a single terrorist attack since it was created, and tests from law enforcement and the media repeatedly prove that they allow dangerous materials onto planes anyway. The only things the TSA does well are stealing shit and embarrassing people.
On October 10 2012 17:30 opisska wrote: So far there are not too many americans in the thread, but as you guys come, you should really appreciate how this is your collective fault. Nothing exists on its own, even the mighty TSA has been created and appointed by your government, that you elected and you did not pressure it enough to put things straight (also because you keep buying the "we must protect you from terrorists" stories). So if you are an American and you are outraged, don't even think about bitching on the internet if you haven't already written to your congresman!
After a couple of visists, I still think that the US is quite a cool (even though very sifficult to grasp) country. But this TSA crap, which every visitor must come in contact with, is really ruining the image.
Hey next time you come over to the US why don't you start a campaign against the TSA.
I don't like the TSA but what am i gonna do drop everything im doing right now and begin a fund to campaign against the TSA? Write letters to my Senators?
and "Dont keep bitching on the internet?" Tell me what was the last thing you have done there keyboard warrior against your Gov't because you can't tell me the Czech Republic is with out flaws.
On October 10 2012 17:30 opisska wrote: So far there are not too many americans in the thread, but as you guys come, you should really appreciate how this is your collective fault. Nothing exists on its own, even the mighty TSA has been created and appointed by your government, that you elected and you did not pressure it enough to put things straight (also because you keep buying the "we must protect you from terrorists" stories). So if you are an American and you are outraged, don't even think about bitching on the internet if you haven't already written to your congresman!
After a couple of visists, I still think that the US is quite a cool (even though very sifficult to grasp) country. But this TSA crap, which every visitor must come in contact with, is really ruining the image.
Hey next time you come over to the US why don't you start a campaign against the TSA.
Yeah other people should lobby for your good because you won't do it yourselves. How about that.
On October 10 2012 17:30 opisska wrote: So far there are not too many americans in the thread, but as you guys come, you should really appreciate how this is your collective fault. Nothing exists on its own, even the mighty TSA has been created and appointed by your government, that you elected and you did not pressure it enough to put things straight (also because you keep buying the "we must protect you from terrorists" stories). So if you are an American and you are outraged, don't even think about bitching on the internet if you haven't already written to your congresman!
After a couple of visists, I still think that the US is quite a cool (even though very sifficult to grasp) country. But this TSA crap, which every visitor must come in contact with, is really ruining the image.
Hey next time you come over to the US why don't you start a campaign against the TSA.
Yeah other people should lobby for your good because you won't do it yourselves. How about that.
Ha oh your so rich got a response for everyone dont you?
On October 10 2012 17:30 opisska wrote: So far there are not too many americans in the thread, but as you guys come, you should really appreciate how this is your collective fault. Nothing exists on its own, even the mighty TSA has been created and appointed by your government, that you elected and you did not pressure it enough to put things straight (also because you keep buying the "we must protect you from terrorists" stories). So if you are an American and you are outraged, don't even think about bitching on the internet if you haven't already written to your congresman!
After a couple of visists, I still think that the US is quite a cool (even though very sifficult to grasp) country. But this TSA crap, which every visitor must come in contact with, is really ruining the image.
Hey next time you come over to the US why don't you start a campaign against the TSA.
Yeah other people should lobby for your good because you won't do it yourselves. How about that.
Ha oh your so rich got a response for everyone dont you?
What thought were you even trying to share with us through that poorly spelled and poorly structured sentence of yours?
Here for you: "When a form of authority infringes upon a person's freedom, it is all the other people who are guilty, because it is their silence and their implied consent that allows the authority to commit this infraction"
On October 10 2012 17:30 opisska wrote: So far there are not too many americans in the thread, but as you guys come, you should really appreciate how this is your collective fault. Nothing exists on its own, even the mighty TSA has been created and appointed by your government, that you elected and you did not pressure it enough to put things straight (also because you keep buying the "we must protect you from terrorists" stories). So if you are an American and you are outraged, don't even think about bitching on the internet if you haven't already written to your congresman!
After a couple of visists, I still think that the US is quite a cool (even though very sifficult to grasp) country. But this TSA crap, which every visitor must come in contact with, is really ruining the image.
Hey next time you come over to the US why don't you start a campaign against the TSA.
Yeah other people should lobby for your good because you won't do it yourselves. How about that.
Ha oh your so rich got a response for everyone dont you?
What thought were you even trying to share with us through that poorly spelled and poorly structured sentence of yours?
What i am trying to convey thought my poor sentence structures and lack of English grammar and vocabulary skills is to ask what can be done?
I could sit here and write to my congressman/senator i could go out and lobby against the TSA start a cause but i can't, i just don't have the time to worry about something like the TSA. Yes i despise them and wish it was like back in 1999, but its more like an annoyance i am willing ti put up. I imagine the average person is to busy as well. Someone said before that flying is a privilege he/she is right, flying isn't the only means of transportation (albeit the only practical one for Hawaii obviously). High profile cases like these happens every year we read about it and and every few months a thread just like this one is opened with probably the exact same arguments being made.
I personally am not scared of a terrorist i have honestly accepted that if someone wants bomb on the plane its going to happen one way or another. Its just a matter of is it my plane or is it not.
I know Europeans/canadians will always criticize the Americans but until it becomes a problem to peoples everyday lives (like somehow extending past planes/transportation) i can't see Americans doing anything about it, thats just how Americais.
Here for you: "When a form of authority infringes upon a person's freedom, it is all the other people who are guilty, because it is their silence and their implied consent that allows the authority to commit this infraction"
So should i write a letter of apology to this lady?
America isn't perfect no far from, its a country of humans and humans are inherently flawed the TSA just humans who make mistakes and this was one of them. I don't hold a grudge against the agents, when i go to the airport most of them are very friendly and crack a joke. Yes there are always the one who really believe they are protecting America but it how it is.
As a American i understand the majority of this country is Christian centered and President Candidates must show some sort of Religious fervor for any possibility of candidacy. The political system if flawed, the taxation is flawed this country is full of holes with very little being done to cover them up. I don't say "what can be done" but i accept it, i may hate on this country for its ridiculous laws and the ones in charge seem as smart as a doorbell. But i do love my country to its death i couldn't imagine living in any other country in the world.
Even if you said look at (No offense intended here) Sweden's great standard of living or Germany has got a great political system/taxation or even look at how great Canada's snow is! (Im joking of course). I wouldn't want to be any other nationality.
Maybe all Americans are inherently insane or we are all just stupid, i don't know and i won't stop loving this country until i die.
TSA is an absolute joke... Anyone who thinks they're stopping anything is absurdly mistaken.
I'll leave it to George Carlin to really end my opinion on it. Anyway this is a really far out example, but general TSA regulations are rather ridiculous. The fact she was checked so severely is insanity though.
On October 11 2012 03:18 Djzapz wrote: Feel free to do nothing =)
Now i feel like i wasted 30 mins on a person who isn't even giving me the courtesy to at least give a serious response instead of childish one liners to point out my lack of grammar skills. You may not agree with me and i may not agree with you but at least voice out your opinions/arguments instead of just wasting everyone's times waiting for responses.
On October 11 2012 03:18 Djzapz wrote: Feel free to do nothing =)
Now i feel like i wasted 30 mins on a person who isn't even giving me the courtesy to at least give a serious response instead of childish one liners point out my grammatical skills. You may not agree with me and i may not agree with you but at least voice out your opinions/arguments instead of just wasting everyone's times waiting for responses.
His response was valid and you decided to add a rhetoric that didn't counter it whatsoever "you have a comment for everyone!" "you think you're so rich!"
It's absolutely ridiculous that you're peddling over such meaningless shit like that, and you didn't present an argument you simply said "If it's a big deal, fix our problem yourself!". It's a statement out of ignorance. The TSA is an abomination and most Americans realize that, it's the few people who argue semantics that don't.
Let's move on shall way? You don't need to argue over grammar or structure anymore.
ONTOPIC: Do you agree with the TSA? Since this came from somewhere. Do you think she should have been checked so vigorously? And do you fear planes such that you believe the amount of power the TSA has is realistic to the amount of danger you have when getting on a plane (about the same chances of getting hit on the head with a coconut and being eaten by a shark at the same time :D)
On October 11 2012 03:18 Djzapz wrote: Feel free to do nothing =)
Now i feel like i wasted 30 mins on a person who isn't even giving me the courtesy to at least give a serious response instead of childish one liners point out my grammatical skills. You may not agree with me and i may not agree with you but at least voice out your opinions/arguments instead of just wasting everyone's times waiting for responses.
His response was valid and you decided to add a rhetoric that didn't counter it whatsoever "you have a comment for everyone!" "you think you're so rich!"
It's absolutely ridiculous that you're peddling over such meaningless shit like that, and you didn't present an argument you simply said "If it's a big deal, fix our problem yourself!". It's a statement out of ignorance. The TSA is an abomination and most Americans realize that, it's the few people who argue semantics that don't.
Let's move on shall way? You don't need to argue over grammar or structure anymore.
Your right, i was going to retort with another one liner but i decided to spend my time typing out a response explaining the American mindset, but at the same time why we put with the TSA.
If you read my response i do agree the TSA is an abomination, which leads into the rest of my response.
Yes my response to the the first person was childish and i meant it more as a bad jest.
ONTOPIC: Do you agree with the TSA? Since this came from somewhere. Do you think she should have been checked so vigorously? And do you fear planes such that you believe the amount of power the TSA has is realistic to the amount of danger you have when getting on a plane (about the same chances of getting hit on the head with a coconut and being eaten by a shark at the same time :D)
Its difficult to say, obviously everyone on the internet is screaming "No its not alright" But to be honest i know little of TSA procedure other than what i see at the airport
. It is more of a if you where there kind of thing if think in my humble opinion. This could of been just poorly trained TSA agents or someone who was just being rude to passangers. Most TSA agents are either neutral or even friendly at all the airports i have been to. (Note i live in NY and use JFK airport)
TSA stops nothing there are so many videos of security experts who get weapons on board. If the TSA is going to stop anything it will be the moron who has a bomb strapped to his/her chest.
I personally don't have any fear with/without the TSA but i am sure there are plenty of parents who feel just a little safer after security. The terrorist did "Win" i would agree with this idea.
On October 11 2012 03:18 Djzapz wrote: Feel free to do nothing =)
Now i feel like i wasted 30 mins on a person who isn't even giving me the courtesy to at least give a serious response instead of childish one liners point out my grammatical skills. You may not agree with me and i may not agree with you but at least voice out your opinions/arguments instead of just wasting everyone's times waiting for responses.
You spent 8 minutes at most, and what makes you feel your sloppy 8 minutes is worth more than my coherent 1-liners? If you want me to explain myself better, I'll go ahead but I won't write you an essay because it's pretty simple.
The TSA is a 8.1b a year security organization which accomplishes nothing. The reason why this is possible is because of a collective failing by Americans, their willingness to give away freedom and even their self-respect in the name of some fake sense of security. I'm not asking you specifically to do something, I'm merely questioning the weakness of the TSA's opposition in the US. I don't care that you're not willing to stand up for yourself personally - it's obvious that most people will put up with shit and won't lift a finger.
That being said, I don't understand how you can be nationalistic in the US anymore. What are you so proud of when you have old ladies getting groped in public like this, and the people who are outraged are not even in your country. There are bad people everywhere, but this is shit that your representatives do - and in this very thread you have sheep nodding and smiling. "Yeah, that's my country! mhm!!"
Every country's democracy requires some maintenance, and it seems to me like the US is left to rot. Continue not to do anything, I was being serious. But be honest with yourself and look at the slowly crumbling empire and just think about why this is happening. It's because of rampant inaction.
On October 11 2012 03:18 Djzapz wrote: Feel free to do nothing =)
Now i feel like i wasted 30 mins on a person who isn't even giving me the courtesy to at least give a serious response instead of childish one liners point out my grammatical skills. You may not agree with me and i may not agree with you but at least voice out your opinions/arguments instead of just wasting everyone's times waiting for responses.
You spent 8 minutes at most, and what makes you feel your sloppy 8 minutes is worth more than my coherent 1-liners? If you want me to explain myself better, I'll go ahead but I won't write you an essay because it's pretty simple.
The TSA is a 8.1b a year security organization which accomplishes nothing. The reason why this is possible is because of a collective failing by Americans, their willingness to give away freedom and even their self-respect in the name of some fake sense of security. I'm not asking you specifically to do something, I'm merely questioning the weakness of the TSA's opposition in the US. I don't care that you're not willing to stand up for yourself personally - it's obvious that most people will put up with shit and won't lift a finger.
That being said, I don't understand how you can be nationalistic in the US anymore. What are you so proud of when you have old ladies getting groped in public like this, and the people who are outraged are not even in your country. There are bad people everywhere, but this is shit that your representatives do - and in this very thread you have sheep nodding and smiling. "Yeah, that's my country! mhm!!"
Every country's democracy requires some maintenance, and it seems to me like the US is left to rot
Your absolutely right i don't know how i am nationalistic to be honest there must of been some sort of brainwashing (i am being semi-serious not even jesting). I know first hand and from study show just BAD our political system is, and i completely agree with almost all of your points. I was never defending the TSA just defending American "Sheepism" and its simple, we are slow to change or to stupid to change, from the view of most Europeans its probably our stupidity. American culture is brutal it doesn't really promote being "Independent" its more about being the collective if you aren't religious you are the minority, if you aren't a Republican or a Democrat you are a minority. I do wish this country could change i do love this country as is, but i would not step back if there was to be change (In the positive direction).
People who say the that airport security doesn't stop anything clearly don't realize that they are there to prevent people from trying to bring dangerous things on planes. If you want to bring a bomb onto a plane you're not just going to carry it with you and try to get through security lol. So they do protect people and indirectly stop numerous potential terrorist attacks. I've never once had a hard time getting through security so maybe I'm bias though. I certainly do feel sorry for this women and the security personnel were obviously in the wrong but almost all I've seen in this thread is tsa/america bashing with impressive amounts of hyperbole.
the TSA officers didn't have the intelligence to take her to a private room, so its their fault. That said, the screenings are better than having an explosion and 300 dead people. What if the patient was really not a patient but a guy with a bomb and the TSA people just let her through since shes just a patient and "obviously" not a threat. And then you have 300 dead people. What are you guys going to whine about if that happened? That TSA isn't doing their job and that the government fails at protecting its citizens? You guys are never going to be satisfied.
Let me remind you that 99.999% of people that walk through airport screenings go through it without any problems. Its just the few percent of idiots at TSA that do stupid things (like not giving the patient private screening) and then it gets on the news and everyone starts crying invasion of privacy and loss of freedom.
EPT
