On October 11 2012 04:54 Rimstalker wrote: have you guys actually been to an airport lately and seen the long lines? If every silly-bugger gets his private room, no one would catch his/her plane anymore
I don't know which german airport you are at, but where are the long lines lately? I fly regularly because of my job for about 10 years and hardly anything has changed in waiting time.
I'm talking about TSA-ran airports. I have been to some lately. 3 hours for a simple transfer WITHIN one terminal
On October 11 2012 04:54 Rimstalker wrote: have you guys actually been to an airport lately and seen the long lines? If every silly-bugger gets his private room, no one would catch his/her plane anymore
I don't know which german airport you are at, but where are the long lines lately? I fly regularly because of my job for about 10 years and hardly anything has changed in waiting time.
I'm talking about TSA-ran airports. I have been to some lately. 3 hours for a simple transfer WITHIN one terminal
Yeah I was traveling through America for about... 2-3 weeks (like 18 days or something) and I spent more time sitting in a terminal playing on my laptop than I did visiting. Obviously that's exaggerated but the wait was ridiculous and my laptop was flagged and I was taken aside for about 10-20 minutes as they interogated me "Where are you going" "Business or pleasure" "has anyone asked you to take anything" "Is this yours" .... Like a fuck I just wanted to get to Florida and see Bush Gardens motherfuckers.
A lot of America flaming going on in this thread. But I won't get into that.
What the TSA agents did was awful. I'm not sure if anything's going to really happen to them other than a slap on the wrist though. The poor old lady was sick and in a wheelchair and they couldn't exercise a bit more caution? I suppose she should have been more assertive about being searched right in front of everybody too though if she wanted to save herself the embarrassment. Sounds like she just slightly hinted at wanting privacy to a couple of TSA agents who didn't care (but should have).
On October 11 2012 05:13 Trusty wrote: They should equip TSA staff with tablets (ipad etc).
Whenever someone has a cry, or whenever people in this thread have a cry, bust out the tablet show them the 9/11 footage. Hopefully that would shut up alot of people very quickly.
How would you feel, if she got on the plane, and it blew up because of her? As in, the 0.001% chance that the story given to the TSA agents was fake, and they didn't check her out. Would you want that on your conscience?
You ask the families of those who lost loved ones in 9/11, or other terrorist activity. They prey on your 'it'll be ok' mentality. They prey on your 'won't happen to me... couldn't be happening' mentality.
It does look like the situation was not handled correctly (privacy etc), but those saying that it's silly to check her out......... please.... have some respect for the people who have lost loved ones to terrorists.
Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.
Only cowards hide behind incidents and "respect" has nothing to do with it. By this we should check every person walking into a bank for weapons, we should have security checks every half miles on the interstate and we should have every single person in a poor area patted down since it has the highest crime rates. It's so disrespectful to the familes who have lost people to gun violence to not have these people patted down! How could you? Didn't you ever see a video of a person being shot, maybe we should bust out a tablet and play it!
Such ridiculous rhetoric, absolutely astounding you think 9/11 is a valid argument for that video.
Have you ever lost someone close to violence? I know it shouldn't change your opinion, but I can assure you it does.
You wake up everyday, wishing they were here. Sometimes you forget, and wake up expecting them to be beside you, then cold hard reality kicks in.
You ask why it happens, why it happened to you. Eventually after blaming yourself and others, you want to just make sure it doesn't happen to other people.
I don't want to type a big sob story, but I hope you might be able to find some empathy with people who have lost loved ones to violence.
Honestly my wish is just check everyone. check everyone and everything. I know it's not feasible to do it, but I wish it could be. The only other options are checking some people, or nobody. I strongly know which of those I prefer.
I think you are the kind of person that sees acts of violence on TV and the news, but doesn't think to comprehend what it means. You read "someone got shot and robbed" you might have a passing thought "man thats sad"... but if you stop and think hard about how you would feel RIGHT THEN if it was your girlfriend/wife/parent/brother.
On October 11 2012 05:13 Trusty wrote: They should equip TSA staff with tablets (ipad etc).
Whenever someone has a cry, or whenever people in this thread have a cry, bust out the tablet show them the 9/11 footage. Hopefully that would shut up alot of people very quickly.
How would you feel, if she got on the plane, and it blew up because of her? As in, the 0.001% chance that the story given to the TSA agents was fake, and they didn't check her out. Would you want that on your conscience?
You ask the families of those who lost loved ones in 9/11, or other terrorist activity. They prey on your 'it'll be ok' mentality. They prey on your 'won't happen to me... couldn't be happening' mentality.
It does look like the situation was not handled correctly (privacy etc), but those saying that it's silly to check her out......... please.... have some respect for the people who have lost loved ones to terrorists.
Ben Franklin
Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.
Only cowards hide behind incidents and "respect" has nothing to do with it. By this we should check every person walking into a bank for weapons, we should have security checks every half miles on the interstate and we should have every single person in a poor area patted down since it has the highest crime rates. It's so disrespectful to the familes who have lost people to gun violence to not have these people patted down! How could you? Didn't you ever see a video of a person being shot, maybe we should bust out a tablet and play it!
Such ridiculous rhetoric, absolutely astounding you think 9/11 is a valid argument for that video.
What would you do?
I'd probably start arguing with appeals to emotion too. That would be so sad. =/
On October 10 2012 17:30 opisska wrote: So far there are not too many americans in the thread, but as you guys come, you should really appreciate how this is your collective fault. Nothing exists on its own, even the mighty TSA has been created and appointed by your government, that you elected and you did not pressure it enough to put things straight (also because you keep buying the "we must protect you from terrorists" stories). So if you are an American and you are outraged, don't even think about bitching on the internet if you haven't already written to your congresman!
After a couple of visists, I still think that the US is quite a cool (even though very sifficult to grasp) country. But this TSA crap, which every visitor must come in contact with, is really ruining the image.
Man, its almost like we suffered the worst terrorist act of all time on two buildings that housed worldwide firms. It's almost like fought a war that, though unethical in a lot of manners, destroyed an entire culture of islamic extremism. I'm sorry for our opisska and the fact that they somehow represent everything about America to you. My bad that my government (which if you knew about our government or history at all, you would know why its not the voters ability to create committees like these). I'm also sorry that we bought into these "terrorist stories" that don't exist except for 9/11, the madrid bombins, the destruction of the pentagon, I can go on. Take a step back dude, Americans hate it, but the TSA agents also hate doing this they aren't satan, these things happen infrequently. The fact that very few bad stories come out and then people become outraged in foreign countries is ridiculous. The TSA isn't enough of an issue right now compared with our other domestic problems. I would suggest not assuming so much about an enormous group of people.
On October 11 2012 05:13 Trusty wrote: They should equip TSA staff with tablets (ipad etc).
Whenever someone has a cry, or whenever people in this thread have a cry, bust out the tablet show them the 9/11 footage. Hopefully that would shut up alot of people very quickly.
How would you feel, if she got on the plane, and it blew up because of her? As in, the 0.001% chance that the story given to the TSA agents was fake, and they didn't check her out. Would you want that on your conscience?
You ask the families of those who lost loved ones in 9/11, or other terrorist activity. They prey on your 'it'll be ok' mentality. They prey on your 'won't happen to me... couldn't be happening' mentality.
It does look like the situation was not handled correctly (privacy etc), but those saying that it's silly to check her out......... please.... have some respect for the people who have lost loved ones to terrorists.
Ben Franklin
Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.
Only cowards hide behind incidents and "respect" has nothing to do with it. By this we should check every person walking into a bank for weapons, we should have security checks every half miles on the interstate and we should have every single person in a poor area patted down since it has the highest crime rates. It's so disrespectful to the familes who have lost people to gun violence to not have these people patted down! How could you? Didn't you ever see a video of a person being shot, maybe we should bust out a tablet and play it!
Such ridiculous rhetoric, absolutely astounding you think 9/11 is a valid argument for that video.
What would you do?
I'd probably start arguing with appeals to emotion too. That would be so sad. =/
I guess it is sad... but if you were sure of something that was going to hurt other people you care about, because it happened to you, would you not try any way possible to stop it happening to them?
This is the reality we live in now. Certain individuals ruined it for the rest of the world, and now we all must be subject to things that arent fair anymore. It is unfortunate, but life isnt fair. Either find a way to deal with it or move to the moon.
No one can be trusted in an airport. I dont trust a single person on my plane until they have been searched and secured, I dont care who it is, how old they are, their disability, or anything else. The TSA dont give a shit what your opinion is. Their job is to keep everyone safe, and they will do what they have to in order to do that. If you dont agree, or you dont like it, then dont use the airport. It is that simple.
Asking someone "do you think this is an appropriate location" is not asking for a private room, so that's not really any breach of policy. Asking "Can you take me somewhere else to do this" is different from the statement she made in the article.
Anyway, people are too damn sensitive. Who gives a flying fuck what the rest of the people in line think? You're never going to see them again whether you have leukemia or not. And you still need to be checked like the rest of the people in the airport, regardless of health circumstances. Not my fault and not TSA's fault that you've got more places to hide things, and items outside of regulations that they need to specially check.
On October 11 2012 05:13 Trusty wrote: They should equip TSA staff with tablets (ipad etc).
Whenever someone has a cry, or whenever people in this thread have a cry, bust out the tablet show them the 9/11 footage. Hopefully that would shut up alot of people very quickly.
How would you feel, if she got on the plane, and it blew up because of her? As in, the 0.001% chance that the story given to the TSA agents was fake, and they didn't check her out. Would you want that on your conscience?
You ask the families of those who lost loved ones in 9/11, or other terrorist activity. They prey on your 'it'll be ok' mentality. They prey on your 'won't happen to me... couldn't be happening' mentality.
It does look like the situation was not handled correctly (privacy etc), but those saying that it's silly to check her out......... please.... have some respect for the people who have lost loved ones to terrorists.
Ben Franklin
Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.
Only cowards hide behind incidents and "respect" has nothing to do with it. By this we should check every person walking into a bank for weapons, we should have security checks every half miles on the interstate and we should have every single person in a poor area patted down since it has the highest crime rates. It's so disrespectful to the familes who have lost people to gun violence to not have these people patted down! How could you? Didn't you ever see a video of a person being shot, maybe we should bust out a tablet and play it!
Such ridiculous rhetoric, absolutely astounding you think 9/11 is a valid argument for that video.
What would you do?
I'd probably start arguing with appeals to emotion too. That would be so sad. =/
I guess it is sad... but if you were sure of something that was going to hurt other people you care about, because it happened to you, would you not try any way possible to stop it happening to them?
Getting way off topic I guess... sorry.
Well that's just called preaching. The crazy variety is even more annoying
We have a senator here in Canada who's entire platform is and has always been to get the laws to be tougher on crime. He doesn't do anything else really, just tough on crime legislation, and that's because both his daughters were killed and now he's angry or something.
He knows that "tough on crime" doesn't serve any practical purpose as evidenced by essentially all research ever, but that's still his thing because he's driven by emotion and cannot be objective. Why would we follow the lead of a man who's unable to think clearly? Good intentions are not enough to run a country, there's a need for expertise and real understanding of how to do shit.
On October 11 2012 05:55 phyre112 wrote: Asking someone "do you think this is an appropriate location" is not asking for a private room, so that's not really any breach of policy. Asking "Can you take me somewhere else to do this" is different from the statement she made in the article.
Anyway, people are too damn sensitive. Who gives a flying fuck what the rest of the people in line think? You're never going to see them again whether you have leukemia or not. And you still need to be checked like the rest of the people in the airport, regardless of health circumstances. Not my fault and not TSA's fault that you've got more places to hide things, and items outside of regulations that they need to specially check.
On October 11 2012 04:47 MasterMonkey wrote: Definitely should have been allowed the privacy to be searched. I think the agents wanted to be safer than sorry and check everything just in case. It's a tough call because it does not sound like a humanitarian act, but the second that we take the TSA away and then there is an act of terrorism (domestic or foreign), us Americans are gunna start bitching and wondering why we didn't have stricter security and it all starts over again.
The solution is not to get rid of the TSA; instead, we ought to streamline and optimize the agency, bringing it out of this weird 2001-2004 timeloop in which the performativity of airline security is more important than the reality. No longer can a government agency simply pander to the lowest common denominator of unabased public fear and use it to justify outlandish regulations that, in fact, affect safety very little if at all.
I definitely agree, it's time for TSA to adapt and time for some internal reform.
On October 11 2012 05:13 Trusty wrote: They should equip TSA staff with tablets (ipad etc).
Whenever someone has a cry, or whenever people in this thread have a cry, bust out the tablet show them the 9/11 footage. Hopefully that would shut up alot of people very quickly.
How would you feel, if she got on the plane, and it blew up because of her? As in, the 0.001% chance that the story given to the TSA agents was fake, and they didn't check her out. Would you want that on your conscience?
You ask the families of those who lost loved ones in 9/11, or other terrorist activity. They prey on your 'it'll be ok' mentality. They prey on your 'won't happen to me... couldn't be happening' mentality.
It does look like the situation was not handled correctly (privacy etc), but those saying that it's silly to check her out......... please.... have some respect for the people who have lost loved ones to terrorists.
Ben Franklin
Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither.
Only cowards hide behind incidents and "respect" has nothing to do with it. By this we should check every person walking into a bank for weapons, we should have security checks every half miles on the interstate and we should have every single person in a poor area patted down since it has the highest crime rates. It's so disrespectful to the familes who have lost people to gun violence to not have these people patted down! How could you? Didn't you ever see a video of a person being shot, maybe we should bust out a tablet and play it!
Such ridiculous rhetoric, absolutely astounding you think 9/11 is a valid argument for that video.
Have you ever lost someone close to violence? I know it shouldn't change your opinion, but I can assure you it does.
You wake up everyday, wishing they were here. Sometimes you forget, and wake up expecting them to be beside you, then cold hard reality kicks in.
You ask why it happens, why it happened to you. Eventually after blaming yourself and others, you want to just make sure it doesn't happen to other people.
I don't want to type a big sob story, but I hope you might be able to find some empathy with people who have lost loved ones to violence.
Honestly my wish is just check everyone. check everyone and everything. I know it's not feasible to do it, but I wish it could be. The only other options are checking some people, or nobody. I strongly know which of those I prefer.
I think you are the kind of person that sees acts of violence on TV and the news, but doesn't think to comprehend what it means. You read "someone got shot and robbed" you might have a passing thought "man thats sad"... but if you stop and think hard about how you would feel RIGHT THEN if it was your girlfriend/wife/parent/brother.
What would you do?
I would have no opinion on the subject... That is exactly why parents don't judge their daughters/sons killer because the mind that is torn with grief is subject to irrational decisions.
I am full of empathy and I've seen enough shit, maybe not the most but definitely not the least. The fact remains you used 9//11 as some type of jockey to throw your point out when it was not a valid statement, there are lists a mile high of things that are more likely to kill you then terrorism and are preventable by similar privacy intrusions that the TSA employees but I don't see you advocating them.
Safety breeds ignorance and dependence, it does not empower a population nor does it just inhibit crime and the prevention of future crime at the expense of liberty is what America fought against. Americans should be stomping down the doors fighting for their rights, not sitting back and pondering what's next.
Sometimes I really do wish Ron Paul was going to be President.
On October 11 2012 05:52 ishyishy wrote: This is the reality we live in now. Certain individuals ruined it for the rest of the world, and now we all must be subject to things that arent fair anymore. It is unfortunate, but life isnt fair. Either find a way to deal with it or move to the moon.
No one can be trusted in an airport. I dont trust a single person on my plane until they have been searched and secured, I dont care who it is, how old they are, their disability, or anything else. The TSA dont give a shit what your opinion is. Their job is to keep everyone safe, and they will do what they have to in order to do that. If you dont agree, or you dont like it, then dont use the airport. It is that simple.
What's so special about airports and planes? No one can be trusted anywhere. Terrorists blow up buses, trains, and subways more often so shouldn't we have strict security for those too? Car bombs are pretty popular so maybe all cars should have to be screened upon entering a highway. Anyone walking down the street could be a terrorist with a bomb so we need to search them too. At this point, you may as well stay home all day, except a terrorist could still blow you up there. You'll have to move to the moon, I guess.
The actual reality we live in is that you can be killed any time, any place, and there isn't a damn thing the government can do to save you. That doesn't mean we should forego all attempts at safety; we had airport security before 2002, after all, but the line between reasonable precautions and insane policy has been crossed. The only reason the TSA exists is to give people a false sense of security. Do you think that delusion is worth the price you pay for it?
For the record, I've been through TSA screening dozens of times and never so much as received a pat-down or bag check. Despite my personal experience, most people I know have had negative experiences with them, and even if they hadn't, the TSA is still an overreach of federal authority and a huge waste of money.
On October 11 2012 06:13 NeMeSiS3 wrote: Sometimes I really do wish Ron Paul was going to be President.
What about his crazies about all kinds of topics though? The gold standard shit was downright ridiculous, and his whole pro-life stance doesn't seem too libertarian to me. "Sanctity of life" kind of shit...
Also, while we can argue about big vs. small government all day, I think we both have to agree (well, I hope) that no matter which direction we take, it must be done gradually. It seems to me like the so-called libertarians that we have today have those ridiculously drastic spending cuts that are completely unreasonable in their timeframe. Also, what to think of the social inequalities that would obviously be created from those governments which would remove so many social services?
I know this is off topic, and I don't know you well, but Ron Paul's platform has always been one of a complete revamp of the US from its very core, a monster plan that would take decades to put into place even WITH the support of congress.
The guy just doesn't occur to me as a candidate that's much better than Obama (who I'm not impressed with btw). It seems like all 3 candidates have their flaws. Romney's too far right although he can clearly adapt to any position, Obama seems to have a hard time handling his government and Paul's just got these weird nonsensical ideas about the economy and seems to have some downright retarded views about abortion.
well, i hope they change. i'm not middle-eastern, but i happen to look a bit middle eastern. let me tell you, pat-downs aren't "random". Every fucking time i'm at the airport, TSA asks me to step out of line. We went to mexico this year, and I told my cousin to wait up for me cause I was gonna get patted down. She called me an idiot. I step into the x-ray machine, and they guy asks me to step over for a pat-down. she shut up afterwards. my bro's been sent to immigration for questioning before (almost missed our connection because of it). i've been to immigration before, and man, that entire room was full of middle-eastern people. one dude was at the airport the whole day because the airport sent his case to DC to get cleared. racial-profiling for the win. Did I mention, I just look middle-eastern, and not actually one.
On October 10 2012 17:30 opisska wrote: So far there are not too many americans in the thread, but as you guys come, you should really appreciate how this is your collective fault. Nothing exists on its own, even the mighty TSA has been created and appointed by your government, that you elected and you did not pressure it enough to put things straight (also because you keep buying the "we must protect you from terrorists" stories). So if you are an American and you are outraged, don't even think about bitching on the internet if you haven't already written to your congresman!
After a couple of visists, I still think that the US is quite a cool (even though very sifficult to grasp) country. But this TSA crap, which every visitor must come in contact with, is really ruining the image.
So this is something I've always wondered. In the US, there is a constant state of low fear that terrorists or even just some crazy dude will come and blow up a plane or something, which is supposed to be the justification for the TSA, Patriot Act, and all that. Obviously, much of this is fabricated by politicians as a means of maintaining the status quo and their incumbency by using fear as a voter motivation, and allowing them to beef up security measures to pretend like they are doing something important. I recognize that in general, Americans probably are more afraid of potential attacks than the actual threat would deserve.
However, I do feel like because it is the US, and because of its image and stature in the world, it [i]is[i] more likely to attacked by some fanatical individual or group than, say, the Czech Republic. I think it is not unreasonable or arrogant to put forth the claim that America probably faces a larger risk of potential attack than other Western countries. However, I'm just not sure how much of a legitimate threat there is, and whether the risk of an attack is great enough to warrant all the breaches of privacy increased security bring along. If the US were really in as much danger as politicians would like us to believe, then hell, we need even more surveillance of airports and passengers coming into the states. But obviously that isn't the case, so with a lesser degree of threat, there is a lesser degree of security needed. The question in my mind is how much is needed.
The guy directly beyond ytour post answered it quite well, but let me clarify, what is wrong in there. While I agree that if there is a standing threat of terrorism, the US is the more likely target than the Czech Republic, i find it questionable that anything that the TSA does is of much help.
Let's say we decide that the security at the airport is necessary. Then still, is it more safe if they are being assholes while doing it? This simple case may not be a good example, but very often there are stories about the TSA basically rushing to embarass, hurt or annoy certain people as much as possible. It's not like if it was an actual terrorist, this is going to help anyhow, because the terrorist is supposed to be trained to handle that. So it's just them being assholes for the sake of being assholes.
Now let's say that the terrorist thread is real. If so, then why just airports? Go ask to Madrid, how much their airport security one of the toughest in Europe now) helped them when someone bombed the commuter trains. And no way you can ever put any security on commuter trains, they would become completely useless. In our society, there is always something you can just bomb and kill a ton of people. So why the obsession with planes?
On October 11 2012 05:55 phyre112 wrote: Asking someone "do you think this is an appropriate location" is not asking for a private room, so that's not really any breach of policy. Asking "Can you take me somewhere else to do this" is different from the statement she made in the article.
Anyway, people are too damn sensitive. Who gives a flying fuck what the rest of the people in line think? You're never going to see them again whether you have leukemia or not. And you still need to be checked like the rest of the people in the airport, regardless of health circumstances. Not my fault and not TSA's fault that you've got more places to hide things, and items outside of regulations that they need to specially check.
Cant agree more.
If this is true, since I didn't read the article, then in my view there is nothing wrong done by the TSA, simply just mis-communication.
EPT
