EPTVeganism: A Discussion - Page 19
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Quasimoto3000
United States471 Posts
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smokeyhoodoo
United States1021 Posts
On September 21 2012 19:23 Ludwigvan wrote: It is also very decadent not to eat our neighbor. Because we have enough food. We do not have to eat him. In many villages around the world they just rape women, because they don't have prisons and police. We should really go back to neanderthal ethics, because they knew what was right. + Show Spoiler + [/sarcasm] This argument may work against those who attempt to justify their killing of animals, as they are acknowledging the moral dilemma, but what of those of us that see no dilemma? I do not feel any compulsion to justify myself to anyone. Without guilt, what is your weapon? | ||
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noD
2230 Posts
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CaptainCrush
United States785 Posts
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Diks
Belgium1880 Posts
The most difficult part : cheese ! It's really hard for me to not eat cheese, so I still buy some, I also occasionally eat meat at some family dinner or stuff like that but don't buy anymore of it. I love the taste of meat but in the same time i realised that it was often what i wouldn't eat in my plate since I'm a kid. nerves, bones and veins are quite disgusting to chew. I turned vegan when I learned that humans are made to eat vegetables. We don't have any of the meat-eater animals parts (jaws, teeth, stomach, bacterial flore, etc...) We eat meat because of culture, taste and because it's easy to prepare. Watching how the animals were treated before finishing in my local store truly disgusted me and made me do the first step. Good thing I discovered : Chickpeas contain aout 20% proteine, which is way more than meat. It's delicious and can be eaten cold (houmos), or cooked. It's best to eat it with bread to help fix those proteines. Also : Gorillas are vegans :D | ||
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Passion
Netherlands1486 Posts
On September 21 2012 21:31 Diks wrote: I turned vegan when I learned that humans are made to eat vegetables. We don't have any of the meat-eater animals parts (jaws, teeth, stomach, bacterial flore, etc...) We eat meat because of culture, taste and because it's easy to prepare. Watching how the animals were treated before finishing in my local store truly disgusted me and made me do the first step. Pretty damn sure our jaws, teeth, stomach, bacterial flora (though I presume this adjusts to your diet) are adapted to eating meat. AND vegetables. | ||
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lem0ncake
England85 Posts
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Jeff100
Canada19 Posts
On September 21 2012 05:59 ImAbstracT wrote: Health While there are many different studies which cover the relationship between animal products and various disease I will stick to the "mother of them all": The China Study. It is the most comprehensive study of nutrition there has been thus far. Here are the 8 principles that the book covers: Please don't cite The China Study as "the mother of them all". It isn't even in a peer reviewed journal. This gives it absolutely no credibility and therefore shouldn't be cited at all. You should be very careful when spreading opinion as fact as it is very misleading. | ||
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Malaz
Germany1257 Posts
I have cut down on my meat consume in recent years, eating meat only 2 days a week and I buy my meat at the local farmer market instead of a super market. I could maybe live without meat, but never without milk/cheese. What I find really annoying are vegans that try to force their way of living on other people like the OP. Especially if they are only vegan for such a short amount of time. You know there is this joke: "How do you know that someone is vegan? Don't worry he will tell you." It's like all they ever talk about. FYI... I don't care  | ||
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sCuMBaG
United Kingdom1144 Posts
On September 21 2012 21:45 Jeff100 wrote: Please don't cite The China Study as "the mother of them all". It isn't even in a peer reviewed journal. This gives it absolutely no credibility and therefore shouldn't be cited at all. You should be very careful when spreading opinion as fact as it is very misleading. basically my thoght. It's interesting how people toss around so many studies, when most of them are either disproved or worthless. There's basically a bad study on virtually and opinion. | ||
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Orek
1665 Posts
On September 21 2012 22:03 Malaz wrote: My little sister is vegan and although I respect what she's doing, I will never be vegan myself. I have cut down on my meat consume in recent years, eating meat only 2 days a week and I buy my meat at the local farmer market instead of a super market. I could maybe live without meat, but never without milk/cheese. What I find really annoying are vegans that try to force their way of living on other people like the OP. Especially if they are only vegan for such a short amount of time. You know there is this joke: "How do you know that someone is vegan? Don't worry he will tell you." It's like all they ever talk about. FYI... I don't care It's like religion. Believe what you want, but don't try to evangelize others too hard. | ||
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r00ty
Germany1068 Posts
If your conscience has a problem with any animal being killed for your diet, go ahead and go vegan, but leave me alone. My conscience is clear: I've grown up in a small village and we were butchering ourselves once or twice a year. I remember eating raw ground pork at the age of 5 when parts of the pig we raised were still hanging on the hook. I helped with processing the pig and slaughtered chickens and fish myself. That's 100% ok, my ancestors were doing it for thousands of years. It has to do something with respect towards the animal: You gotta know where it's coming from and what's behind it. I got a huge problem with meat eaters thinking stuff like this is disgusting. The kind of people who think meat is faceless, comes out of a plastik pack and shove it into their faces all day long. To me eating meat is luxury. I'm a poor student atm, still I just buy in local butcheries as far as possible, because there's a lot wrong in the meat industry today. | ||
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
On September 21 2012 22:12 r00ty wrote: There is nothing wrong with eating meat. There's a lot wrong with eating too much meat. Socio-economically and ecologically. Moderation and education is the key for me. If your conscience has a problem with any animal being killed for your diet, go ahead and go vegan, but leave me alone. My conscience is clear: I've grown up in a small village and we were butchering ourselves once or twice a year. I remember eating raw ground pork at the age of 5 when parts of the pig we raised were still hanging on the hook. I helped with processing the pig and slaughtered chickens and fish myself. That's 100% ok, my ancestors were doing it for thousands of years. It has to do something with respect towards the animal: You gotta know where it's coming from and what's behind it. I got a huge problem with meat eaters thinking stuff like this is disgusting. The kind of people who think meat is faceless, comes out of a plastik pack and shove it into their faces all day long. To me eating meat is luxury. I'm a poor student atm, still I just buy in local butcheries as far as possible, because there's a lot wrong in the meat industry today. I think I said it multiple times through this thread, people like you (or the guy with the vegan sister above) aren't considered a "problem" by anyone but the most radical vegans/veggies. You make the conscious decision to participate as few as possible in a simply put barbaric industry. You - most likely (=P) - informed yourself, looked at options, weighed flaws and benefits and came to a decision. To me and most other people who don't chose to eat meat that's awesome. I don't see much difference between someone who eats meat 1-2 times per week and tries to get it from "good" sources and someone who doesn't eat meat at all. The "problem" are people who decide to be ignorant about what they're eating, where it comes from, what's in it and justify their "opinion" with some kind of "lol that doesn't concern you leave me alone". If a person is the cause of someone elses suffering I think simply looking away is the most aweful thing anyone can do. It doesn't matter whether it's a person being abused, a dog being abused or cattle herded and slaughtered in conditions so bad that no one even wants to know about it. The ability to extend the same empathy you feel towards a loved one for a random person or a random animal is one that definitely doesn't make this world a worse place. (; | ||
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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
On September 21 2012 06:10 ImAbstracT wrote: There is a connection between diabetes (type 1 I believe) and obesity to animal product consumption. You can literally eat all the fruits, veggies, nuts, and plant based foods you want without worrying about being overweight. *This is just from some sources I have read. Don't use my posts to make your dietary choices.* I'd bet you a billion dollars that if i eat 50 bananas a day id become obese. Or if i ate 1kg of nuts a day the same would happen (over 6000 kcal) If i ate 50 slices of bacon i wouldnt (not saying that healthy either because it isnt) Diabetes type 1 is an autoimmune disorder, type 2 is the one you get from being obese and obesity and type 2 diabetes is caused by sugar not by meat. | ||
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KiwiQuest
Denmark11 Posts
On the health issue, I think you should be wary of calling vegan diet uniformly healthier. I won't dispute that fruit, vegetables and the like should be the main part of your diet, but foreswearing all animal products is equally unhealthy in my opinion. To name the most obvious example, no known sources of vitamin b12 exists in a vegan diet, which means you risk megaloblastic anaemia and various neurological diseases. I realise science hasn't completely ruled out the possibility of working around this issue, and studies have provided examples of vegans apparently doing fine without supplements, but the same is true for people developing serious health issues because of a purely vegan diet. The same is sort of true with proteins. While its perfectly possible to gain your required amount of protein through beans and suchlike, its much more difficult and require a greater degree of awareness as to what you eat. On the whole, to be certain your diet is adequate, you much more knowledge of good nutrition than you do if you just eat a "balanced diet". While this isn't neccesarily a bad thing, it means there are health risks involved unless you're somewhat informed about what you're doing. Edit: Without having researched it extensively, I would also postulate that to keep a healthy diet, you need a fair amount of different vegetables, fruits and nuts, which means its only really possible if you're from a 1. world country and have a certain amount of financial freedom. Lastly, I find veganism an odd way of protesting against the exploitation of nature and animals specifically. First, as have been mentioned before, farms producing vegetables are equally "harmfull" for the environment in many ways. And second, I don't think not eating any meat at all is a relevant protest against the "meat factories" because as a vegan, they've already ruled you out as a potential customer. If you want to affect how they treat their animals, I believe buying meat, milk, eggs and whatnot from manufacturers that produce the food a more ethical (you can define what that means to you) way will do more to affect the market than simply swearing off animal products altogether. I have difficulty following the whole "eating meat is unnatural" debate, as it seems to me that a) Nature has no purpose as such and b) since humans are capable of eating both plant and animal foods, neither is "more natural" than the other. And given that things such as vitamin b12 are impossible (or close to) to gain through vegan diet alone, its hardly MORE natural than eating meat, is it? | ||
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TealHorseman
36 Posts
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Spidinko
Slovakia1174 Posts
On September 21 2012 21:31 Diks wrote: I turned vegan when I learned that humans are made to eat vegetables. We don't have any of the meat-eater animals parts (jaws, teeth, stomach, bacterial flore, etc...) We eat meat because of culture, taste and because it's easy to prepare. Watching how the animals were treated before finishing in my local store truly disgusted me and made me do the first step. That's not really true ^^. We are omnivore species and meat played very important role in our development. Also, we evolved, we're not made. | ||
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tertos
Romania394 Posts
I guess I might be a bit vegan myself since my weekly diet consists of cola, pistachio and peanuts, and sometimes canned beans. Love beeing a student. | ||
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tomatriedes
New Zealand5356 Posts
On September 21 2012 06:24 JinDesu wrote: I'm sure our ancestors were a bit crueler in how they killed animals. Or at least, less efficient. I'm sure our ancestors never factory farmed chickens. It's not just about about how the animal is killed, but how it is raised. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4404 Posts
On September 21 2012 21:39 lem0ncake wrote: every single vegetarian/vegan person i've ever met looked like they were dying of aids or something. it can't be healthy My fathers cousin is vegan and has osteoporosis.Age is mid 50s. | ||
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