|
|
|
On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:On September 23 2012 05:38 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:24 T.O.P. wrote:On September 23 2012 04:57 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 04:47 white_horse wrote:
I never blamed any Japanese person in that period or Japanese person from today. I just said that it human nature operates such that people will still be angry at japan regardless of what the government does. It's unfair but thats how it is.
It's still an attitude problem on the part of the japanese government. You only have to take a quick look in the differences in the public attitudes about imperial japan and nazi germany between Japan and Germany, respectively, to understand why koreans and chinese are still venting while people in poland or france or belgium aren't protesting outside their german embassies. Yes, perhaps some of it is human nature, but it doesn't mean people can't go against their nature when it runs contrary to their reason. I agree there may be attitude differences on the part of the Japanese government with say, the German government, but the difference between the people in Poland, France and Belgium not actively fostering nationalism as opposed to the Chinese government actively doing so contributes to at least part of this problem as well. I suppose what I'm saying is that even if the Japanese government stopped visiting the shrine and didn't try to nationalize the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands today, some other event would have happened and the Chinese people would've gotten all riled up in anti-Japanese anger. I am saying that no matter what the Japanese government does until either the Chinese government stops aggressively pushing nationalism in their own country or the Chinese people wise up to the fact that the criminals some 70 years ago have all died and that there's nothing left to blame on the Japanese people, this problem won't be solved. I think there would be less hate if the Japan's emperor, prime minister, etc, went to Beijing and bowed down to the chinese to apologize on behalf of Japan for the crimes that the previous generation made. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone
![[image loading]](http://americandigest.org/bowing%20to%20Saudi%20King.jpg)
|
Canada2068 Posts
On September 23 2012 07:51 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:On September 23 2012 05:38 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:24 T.O.P. wrote:On September 23 2012 04:57 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 04:47 white_horse wrote:
I never blamed any Japanese person in that period or Japanese person from today. I just said that it human nature operates such that people will still be angry at japan regardless of what the government does. It's unfair but thats how it is.
It's still an attitude problem on the part of the japanese government. You only have to take a quick look in the differences in the public attitudes about imperial japan and nazi germany between Japan and Germany, respectively, to understand why koreans and chinese are still venting while people in poland or france or belgium aren't protesting outside their german embassies. Yes, perhaps some of it is human nature, but it doesn't mean people can't go against their nature when it runs contrary to their reason. I agree there may be attitude differences on the part of the Japanese government with say, the German government, but the difference between the people in Poland, France and Belgium not actively fostering nationalism as opposed to the Chinese government actively doing so contributes to at least part of this problem as well. I suppose what I'm saying is that even if the Japanese government stopped visiting the shrine and didn't try to nationalize the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands today, some other event would have happened and the Chinese people would've gotten all riled up in anti-Japanese anger. I am saying that no matter what the Japanese government does until either the Chinese government stops aggressively pushing nationalism in their own country or the Chinese people wise up to the fact that the criminals some 70 years ago have all died and that there's nothing left to blame on the Japanese people, this problem won't be solved. I think there would be less hate if the Japan's emperor, prime minister, etc, went to Beijing and bowed down to the chinese to apologize on behalf of Japan for the crimes that the previous generation made. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone
Also a faux pas.
|
Canada2068 Posts
On September 23 2012 07:40 Xpace wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:On September 23 2012 05:38 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:24 T.O.P. wrote:On September 23 2012 04:57 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 04:47 white_horse wrote:
I never blamed any Japanese person in that period or Japanese person from today. I just said that it human nature operates such that people will still be angry at japan regardless of what the government does. It's unfair but thats how it is.
It's still an attitude problem on the part of the japanese government. You only have to take a quick look in the differences in the public attitudes about imperial japan and nazi germany between Japan and Germany, respectively, to understand why koreans and chinese are still venting while people in poland or france or belgium aren't protesting outside their german embassies. Yes, perhaps some of it is human nature, but it doesn't mean people can't go against their nature when it runs contrary to their reason. I agree there may be attitude differences on the part of the Japanese government with say, the German government, but the difference between the people in Poland, France and Belgium not actively fostering nationalism as opposed to the Chinese government actively doing so contributes to at least part of this problem as well. I suppose what I'm saying is that even if the Japanese government stopped visiting the shrine and didn't try to nationalize the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands today, some other event would have happened and the Chinese people would've gotten all riled up in anti-Japanese anger. I am saying that no matter what the Japanese government does until either the Chinese government stops aggressively pushing nationalism in their own country or the Chinese people wise up to the fact that the criminals some 70 years ago have all died and that there's nothing left to blame on the Japanese people, this problem won't be solved. I think there would be less hate if the Japan's emperor, prime minister, etc, went to Beijing and bowed down to the chinese to apologize on behalf of Japan for the crimes that the previous generation made. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. ![[image loading]](http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef0128759fd303970c-800wi) That was considered a faux pas by everyone. American ReactionFox News! What?
If you read the link to Fox News, you see the question asked is:
When the president of the United States is traveling overseas, do you think it is appropriate for him to bow to a foreign leader if that is the country’s custom or is it never appropriate for the president to bow to another leader? SCALE: 1. Yes, bow when it is the proper custom 2. No, it is never appropriate for the president to bow 3. (Don’t know)
Yet despite what the average American thinks about how it should work, this article (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html) states that it's certainly not the custom for foreign countries to greet foreign leaders by bowing. In fact, the only reason you remember this incident and why news media covered it is because of how odd it was in international politics.
|
On September 23 2012 08:01 CountChocula wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 07:40 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:On September 23 2012 05:38 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:24 T.O.P. wrote:On September 23 2012 04:57 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 04:47 white_horse wrote:
I never blamed any Japanese person in that period or Japanese person from today. I just said that it human nature operates such that people will still be angry at japan regardless of what the government does. It's unfair but thats how it is.
It's still an attitude problem on the part of the japanese government. You only have to take a quick look in the differences in the public attitudes about imperial japan and nazi germany between Japan and Germany, respectively, to understand why koreans and chinese are still venting while people in poland or france or belgium aren't protesting outside their german embassies. Yes, perhaps some of it is human nature, but it doesn't mean people can't go against their nature when it runs contrary to their reason. I agree there may be attitude differences on the part of the Japanese government with say, the German government, but the difference between the people in Poland, France and Belgium not actively fostering nationalism as opposed to the Chinese government actively doing so contributes to at least part of this problem as well. I suppose what I'm saying is that even if the Japanese government stopped visiting the shrine and didn't try to nationalize the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands today, some other event would have happened and the Chinese people would've gotten all riled up in anti-Japanese anger. I am saying that no matter what the Japanese government does until either the Chinese government stops aggressively pushing nationalism in their own country or the Chinese people wise up to the fact that the criminals some 70 years ago have all died and that there's nothing left to blame on the Japanese people, this problem won't be solved. I think there would be less hate if the Japan's emperor, prime minister, etc, went to Beijing and bowed down to the chinese to apologize on behalf of Japan for the crimes that the previous generation made. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone. American ReactionFox News! What? If you read the link to Fox News, you see the question asked is: When the president of the United States is traveling overseas, do you think it is appropriate for him to bow to a foreign leader if that is the country’s custom or is it never appropriate for the president to bow to another leader? SCALE: 1. Yes, bow when it is the proper custom 2. No, it is never appropriate for the president to bow 3. (Don’t know) Yet despite what the average American thinks about how it should work, this article (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html) states that it's certainly not the custom for foreign countries to greet foreign leaders by bowing. In fact, the only reason you remember this incident and why news media covered it is because of how odd it was in international politics.
Wow. Your ignorance and arrogance are shining through brilliantly these last few pages.
First of all, its not about the question that was posed, more the audience who the question was being posed to, in regards to his comment about the poll being from FOX news.
Secondly, why can't things change. May be it was faux pas that they haven't been bowing when visiting a culture where this is the norm. What is international politics? Where are the customs spawned from? Can these change to adapt to different culture? All you are arguing is that International Politics and manner have been this way and the status quo is right. I don't think anyone who understands East Asian culture would've found it strange that he was bowing, or would've thought it was demeaning for him to do so. TBH when I saw that I thought wow, Obama atleast has some cultural sensitivity and respect.
Basically, you are trying to point out rights and wrongs to do with social interactions and customs, when the nature of the topic is void of a 'right' answer.
User was temp banned for this post.
|
Canada2068 Posts
On September 23 2012 08:32 calderon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 08:01 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:40 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:On September 23 2012 05:38 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:24 T.O.P. wrote:On September 23 2012 04:57 CountChocula wrote:
[quote]
Yes, perhaps some of it is human nature, but it doesn't mean people can't go against their nature when it runs contrary to their reason.
I agree there may be attitude differences on the part of the Japanese government with say, the German government, but the difference between the people in Poland, France and Belgium not actively fostering nationalism as opposed to the Chinese government actively doing so contributes to at least part of this problem as well.
I suppose what I'm saying is that even if the Japanese government stopped visiting the shrine and didn't try to nationalize the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands today, some other event would have happened and the Chinese people would've gotten all riled up in anti-Japanese anger. I am saying that no matter what the Japanese government does until either the Chinese government stops aggressively pushing nationalism in their own country or the Chinese people wise up to the fact that the criminals some 70 years ago have all died and that there's nothing left to blame on the Japanese people, this problem won't be solved. I think there would be less hate if the Japan's emperor, prime minister, etc, went to Beijing and bowed down to the chinese to apologize on behalf of Japan for the crimes that the previous generation made. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone. American ReactionFox News! What? If you read the link to Fox News, you see the question asked is: When the president of the United States is traveling overseas, do you think it is appropriate for him to bow to a foreign leader if that is the country’s custom or is it never appropriate for the president to bow to another leader? SCALE: 1. Yes, bow when it is the proper custom 2. No, it is never appropriate for the president to bow 3. (Don’t know) Yet despite what the average American thinks about how it should work, this article (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html) states that it's certainly not the custom for foreign countries to greet foreign leaders by bowing. In fact, the only reason you remember this incident and why news media covered it is because of how odd it was in international politics. Wow. Your ignorance and arrogance are shining through brilliantly these last few pages. First of all, its not about the question that was posed, more the audience who the question was being posed to, in regards to his comment about the poll being from FOX news. Secondly, why can't things change. May be it was faux pas that they haven't been bowing when visiting a culture where this is the norm. What is international politics? Where are the customs spawned from? Can these change to adapt to different culture? All you are arguing is that International Politics and manner have been this way and the status quo is right. I don't think anyone who understands East Asian culture would've found it strange that he was bowing, or would've thought it was demeaning for him to do so. TBH when I saw that I thought wow, Obama atleast has some cultural sensitivity and respect. Basically, you are trying to point out rights and wrongs to do with social interactions and customs, when the nature of the topic is void of a 'right' answer.
Way to drag the discussion off-topic when all I did was observe a fact--that "[bowing down] is not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age." It's not like we're talking about interactions between 5-year olds here, where one kid shows repentance by bowing down until the other kid accepts the apology, then they kiss and make up.
Since I've made my point and settled things with white_horse, I won't bother replying to posts like the one above that begin with ad hominems and ignore the rest of my argument.
|
On September 23 2012 08:50 CountChocula wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 08:32 calderon wrote:On September 23 2012 08:01 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:40 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:On September 23 2012 05:38 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:24 T.O.P. wrote:
[quote]
I think there would be less hate if the Japan's emperor, prime minister, etc, went to Beijing and bowed down to the chinese to apologize on behalf of Japan for the crimes that the previous generation made. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone. American ReactionFox News! What? If you read the link to Fox News, you see the question asked is: When the president of the United States is traveling overseas, do you think it is appropriate for him to bow to a foreign leader if that is the country’s custom or is it never appropriate for the president to bow to another leader? SCALE: 1. Yes, bow when it is the proper custom 2. No, it is never appropriate for the president to bow 3. (Don’t know) Yet despite what the average American thinks about how it should work, this article (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html) states that it's certainly not the custom for foreign countries to greet foreign leaders by bowing. In fact, the only reason you remember this incident and why news media covered it is because of how odd it was in international politics. Wow. Your ignorance and arrogance are shining through brilliantly these last few pages. First of all, its not about the question that was posed, more the audience who the question was being posed to, in regards to his comment about the poll being from FOX news. Secondly, why can't things change. May be it was faux pas that they haven't been bowing when visiting a culture where this is the norm. What is international politics? Where are the customs spawned from? Can these change to adapt to different culture? All you are arguing is that International Politics and manner have been this way and the status quo is right. I don't think anyone who understands East Asian culture would've found it strange that he was bowing, or would've thought it was demeaning for him to do so. TBH when I saw that I thought wow, Obama atleast has some cultural sensitivity and respect. Basically, you are trying to point out rights and wrongs to do with social interactions and customs, when the nature of the topic is void of a 'right' answer. Way to drag the discussion off-topic when all I did was observe a fact--that "[bowing down] is not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age." It's not like we're talking about interactions between 5-year olds here, where one kid shows repentance by bowing down until the other kid accepts the apology, then they kiss and make up.
Since I've made my point and settled things with white_horse, I won't bother replying to posts like the one above that begin with ad hominems and ignore the rest of my argument.
Like I said, you're ignorance is glowing. When you quote a picture of Obama bowing and just state "faux pas", wtf are you trying to convey?
Quote in bold: Because that's how Confucian culture works, facepalm. TBH, if the Japanese government did make a genuine, formal apology, in line with East Asian culture, I think much of the public would be accepting of this and take it as sincere. Don't keep saying things are right or wrong, work or won't work, when you have NO IDEA about social interactions in that part of the world.
Basically, you just compared East Asian customs to the triviality of 5yo's kissing and making up. That is far more insulting than any 'ad hominem' attack. Where did I ignore all of your other points? Look guys, CountChocula has taken a paper in critical thinking, everyone look! What actually incited me to respond was you posting "faux pas" under quotes of pictures... not me bringing up old arguments. Thanks.
|
On September 23 2012 08:50 CountChocula wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 08:32 calderon wrote:On September 23 2012 08:01 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:40 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:On September 23 2012 05:38 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:24 T.O.P. wrote:
[quote]
I think there would be less hate if the Japan's emperor, prime minister, etc, went to Beijing and bowed down to the chinese to apologize on behalf of Japan for the crimes that the previous generation made. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone. American ReactionFox News! What? If you read the link to Fox News, you see the question asked is: When the president of the United States is traveling overseas, do you think it is appropriate for him to bow to a foreign leader if that is the country’s custom or is it never appropriate for the president to bow to another leader? SCALE: 1. Yes, bow when it is the proper custom 2. No, it is never appropriate for the president to bow 3. (Don’t know) Yet despite what the average American thinks about how it should work, this article (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html) states that it's certainly not the custom for foreign countries to greet foreign leaders by bowing. In fact, the only reason you remember this incident and why news media covered it is because of how odd it was in international politics. Wow. Your ignorance and arrogance are shining through brilliantly these last few pages. First of all, its not about the question that was posed, more the audience who the question was being posed to, in regards to his comment about the poll being from FOX news. Secondly, why can't things change. May be it was faux pas that they haven't been bowing when visiting a culture where this is the norm. What is international politics? Where are the customs spawned from? Can these change to adapt to different culture? All you are arguing is that International Politics and manner have been this way and the status quo is right. I don't think anyone who understands East Asian culture would've found it strange that he was bowing, or would've thought it was demeaning for him to do so. TBH when I saw that I thought wow, Obama atleast has some cultural sensitivity and respect. Basically, you are trying to point out rights and wrongs to do with social interactions and customs, when the nature of the topic is void of a 'right' answer. Way to drag the discussion off-topic when all I did was observe a fact--that "[bowing down] is not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age." It's not like we're talking about interactions between 5-year olds here, where one kid shows repentance by bowing down until the other kid accepts the apology, then they kiss and make up. Since I've made my point and settled things with white_horse, I won't bother replying to posts like the one above that begin with ad hominems and ignore the rest of my argument.
Yeah I have to chip in here, that's EXACTLY, how those cultures work.
In Japan, you screw up? You bow. Even if your talking on the phone (yes I've seen it done)
I can't speak first hand for China/Korea but I'm led to believe they are the same.
Maybe try learning about the cultures in question and not just make stuff up?
|
I really don't blame them. lol go google Japanese WW2 Warcrimes. Look and the shit they did to the chinese people thats beyond fucked up like doing human experiments in large numbers, public execution of civilians, gang raping, forcing sons to rape their mom, forcing dads to rape their daughter, killing baby on the streets, stabbing dicks and vaginas, skining people ect all for their entertainment. yet they haven't even given a formal appology and even have a shrine for the war"heros" in ww2 is just ... lol.
|
On September 23 2012 07:58 CountChocula wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 07:51 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:On September 23 2012 05:38 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:24 T.O.P. wrote:On September 23 2012 04:57 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 04:47 white_horse wrote:
I never blamed any Japanese person in that period or Japanese person from today. I just said that it human nature operates such that people will still be angry at japan regardless of what the government does. It's unfair but thats how it is.
It's still an attitude problem on the part of the japanese government. You only have to take a quick look in the differences in the public attitudes about imperial japan and nazi germany between Japan and Germany, respectively, to understand why koreans and chinese are still venting while people in poland or france or belgium aren't protesting outside their german embassies. Yes, perhaps some of it is human nature, but it doesn't mean people can't go against their nature when it runs contrary to their reason. I agree there may be attitude differences on the part of the Japanese government with say, the German government, but the difference between the people in Poland, France and Belgium not actively fostering nationalism as opposed to the Chinese government actively doing so contributes to at least part of this problem as well. I suppose what I'm saying is that even if the Japanese government stopped visiting the shrine and didn't try to nationalize the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands today, some other event would have happened and the Chinese people would've gotten all riled up in anti-Japanese anger. I am saying that no matter what the Japanese government does until either the Chinese government stops aggressively pushing nationalism in their own country or the Chinese people wise up to the fact that the criminals some 70 years ago have all died and that there's nothing left to blame on the Japanese people, this problem won't be solved. I think there would be less hate if the Japan's emperor, prime minister, etc, went to Beijing and bowed down to the chinese to apologize on behalf of Japan for the crimes that the previous generation made. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone Also a faux pas.
I can find like 10 pictures that show the same thing with a google search lol. Please stop defending your bad argument and making yourself look bad :/
|
Canada2068 Posts
On September 23 2012 09:10 Gingerninja wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 08:50 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 08:32 calderon wrote:On September 23 2012 08:01 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:40 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:On September 23 2012 05:38 CountChocula wrote:
[quote]
Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone. American ReactionFox News! What? If you read the link to Fox News, you see the question asked is: When the president of the United States is traveling overseas, do you think it is appropriate for him to bow to a foreign leader if that is the country’s custom or is it never appropriate for the president to bow to another leader? SCALE: 1. Yes, bow when it is the proper custom 2. No, it is never appropriate for the president to bow 3. (Don’t know) Yet despite what the average American thinks about how it should work, this article (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html) states that it's certainly not the custom for foreign countries to greet foreign leaders by bowing. In fact, the only reason you remember this incident and why news media covered it is because of how odd it was in international politics. Wow. Your ignorance and arrogance are shining through brilliantly these last few pages. First of all, its not about the question that was posed, more the audience who the question was being posed to, in regards to his comment about the poll being from FOX news. Secondly, why can't things change. May be it was faux pas that they haven't been bowing when visiting a culture where this is the norm. What is international politics? Where are the customs spawned from? Can these change to adapt to different culture? All you are arguing is that International Politics and manner have been this way and the status quo is right. I don't think anyone who understands East Asian culture would've found it strange that he was bowing, or would've thought it was demeaning for him to do so. TBH when I saw that I thought wow, Obama atleast has some cultural sensitivity and respect. Basically, you are trying to point out rights and wrongs to do with social interactions and customs, when the nature of the topic is void of a 'right' answer. Way to drag the discussion off-topic when all I did was observe a fact--that "[bowing down] is not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age." It's not like we're talking about interactions between 5-year olds here, where one kid shows repentance by bowing down until the other kid accepts the apology, then they kiss and make up. Since I've made my point and settled things with white_horse, I won't bother replying to posts like the one above that begin with ad hominems and ignore the rest of my argument. Yeah I have to chip in here, that's EXACTLY, how those cultures work. In Japan, you screw up? You bow. Even if your talking on the phone (yes I've seen it done) I can't speak first hand for China/Korea but I'm led to believe they are the same. Maybe try learning about the cultures in question and not just make stuff up?
Sure, but we're talking about countries here. See how the keyword I mentioned was "international politics and apologies between nations". One's behaviour when representing a country publicly is different from how one might behave privately. Thanks for telling me about how those cultures work, but I don't know why you would assume that foreign dignitaries who travel to the country are expected to follow the culture of the nation they're visiting instead of standard protocol.
|
Canada2068 Posts
On September 23 2012 09:19 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 07:58 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:51 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:On September 23 2012 05:38 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:24 T.O.P. wrote:On September 23 2012 04:57 CountChocula wrote:
[quote]
Yes, perhaps some of it is human nature, but it doesn't mean people can't go against their nature when it runs contrary to their reason.
I agree there may be attitude differences on the part of the Japanese government with say, the German government, but the difference between the people in Poland, France and Belgium not actively fostering nationalism as opposed to the Chinese government actively doing so contributes to at least part of this problem as well.
I suppose what I'm saying is that even if the Japanese government stopped visiting the shrine and didn't try to nationalize the Diaoyu/Senkaku Islands today, some other event would have happened and the Chinese people would've gotten all riled up in anti-Japanese anger. I am saying that no matter what the Japanese government does until either the Chinese government stops aggressively pushing nationalism in their own country or the Chinese people wise up to the fact that the criminals some 70 years ago have all died and that there's nothing left to blame on the Japanese people, this problem won't be solved. I think there would be less hate if the Japan's emperor, prime minister, etc, went to Beijing and bowed down to the chinese to apologize on behalf of Japan for the crimes that the previous generation made. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone Also a faux pas. I can find like 10 pictures that show the same thing with a google search lol. Please stop defending your bad argument and making yourself look bad :/
Google "Obama bow faux pas" and see how many results you get. Describe how my argument is bad instead of posting single images.
|
On September 23 2012 09:26 CountChocula wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 09:19 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:58 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:51 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:On September 23 2012 05:38 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:24 T.O.P. wrote:
[quote]
I think there would be less hate if the Japan's emperor, prime minister, etc, went to Beijing and bowed down to the chinese to apologize on behalf of Japan for the crimes that the previous generation made. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone Also a faux pas. I can find like 10 pictures that show the same thing with a google search lol. Please stop defending your bad argument and making yourself look bad :/ Google "Obama bow faux pas" and see how many results you get. Describe how my argument is bad instead of posting single images.
faux pas to who? people with cultural customs similar to yourself?
In the context of Japan making an apology to China, why would it be strange if they bowed? (No I am not arguing whether they should or shouldnt' apologise). Both cultures are very similar in regards to apologising and losing face etc.. so why would it be more appropriate for this to be done under "international customs". (western culture).
|
good god this thread is derailing so hard...
I was really excited to see some more discussion on this. Instead we get an "OMG FAUX PAS" BOW.
-_-
|
Canada2068 Posts
On September 23 2012 09:29 calderon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 09:26 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 09:19 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:58 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:51 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:On September 23 2012 05:38 CountChocula wrote:
[quote]
Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone Also a faux pas. I can find like 10 pictures that show the same thing with a google search lol. Please stop defending your bad argument and making yourself look bad :/ Google "Obama bow faux pas" and see how many results you get. Describe how my argument is bad instead of posting single images. faux pas to who? people with cultural customs similar to yourself?
Everyone apparently, since you don't see Chinese PMs bow to the Japanese emperor when they meet despite being from the region of East Asia where everyone bows. I wonder why that is...
You know, it's funny. I even thought about including the disclaimer about the Obama bow not counting because it's an obvious faux pas and no other foreign head of state bows to the Japanese emperor, but alas.
On September 23 2012 09:29 calderon wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 09:26 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 09:19 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:58 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:51 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:On September 23 2012 05:38 CountChocula wrote:
[quote]
Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone Also a faux pas. I can find like 10 pictures that show the same thing with a google search lol. Please stop defending your bad argument and making yourself look bad :/ Google "Obama bow faux pas" and see how many results you get. Describe how my argument is bad instead of posting single images. In the context of Japan making an apology to China, why would it be strange if they bowed? (No I am not arguing whether they should or shouldnt' apologise). Both cultures are very similar in regards to apologising and losing face etc.. so why would it be more appropriate for this to be done under "international customs". (western culture).
This is a good point that I admit I missed. I assumed he meant bowing down = kneeling on the ground.
|
On September 23 2012 09:32 CountChocula wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 09:29 calderon wrote:On September 23 2012 09:26 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 09:19 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:58 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:51 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:
[quote]
Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone Also a faux pas. I can find like 10 pictures that show the same thing with a google search lol. Please stop defending your bad argument and making yourself look bad :/ Google "Obama bow faux pas" and see how many results you get. Describe how my argument is bad instead of posting single images. faux pas to who? people with cultural customs similar to yourself? Everyone apparently, since you don't see Chinese PMs bow to the Japanese emperor when they meet despite being from the region of East Asia where everyone bows. I wonder why that is... You know, it's funny. I even thought about including the disclaimer about the Obama bow not counting because it's an obvious faux pas and no other foreign head of state bows to the Japanese emperor, but alas. Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 09:29 calderon wrote:On September 23 2012 09:26 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 09:19 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:58 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:51 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:
[quote]
Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone Also a faux pas. I can find like 10 pictures that show the same thing with a google search lol. Please stop defending your bad argument and making yourself look bad :/ Google "Obama bow faux pas" and see how many results you get. Describe how my argument is bad instead of posting single images. In the context of Japan making an apology to China, why would it be strange if they bowed? (No I am not arguing whether they should or shouldnt' apologise). Both cultures are very similar in regards to apologising and losing face etc.. so why would it be more appropriate for this to be done under "international customs". (western culture). This is a good point that I admit I missed. I assumed he meant bowing down = kneeling on the ground.
If there are a lot of them, it's not a faux pas. Logic ! Amazing isn't it?
User was temp banned for this post.
|
Canada2068 Posts
On September 23 2012 09:52 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 09:32 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 09:29 calderon wrote:On September 23 2012 09:26 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 09:19 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:58 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:51 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age.
Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone Also a faux pas. I can find like 10 pictures that show the same thing with a google search lol. Please stop defending your bad argument and making yourself look bad :/ Google "Obama bow faux pas" and see how many results you get. Describe how my argument is bad instead of posting single images. faux pas to who? people with cultural customs similar to yourself? Everyone apparently, since you don't see Chinese PMs bow to the Japanese emperor when they meet despite being from the region of East Asia where everyone bows. I wonder why that is... You know, it's funny. I even thought about including the disclaimer about the Obama bow not counting because it's an obvious faux pas and no other foreign head of state bows to the Japanese emperor, but alas. On September 23 2012 09:29 calderon wrote:On September 23 2012 09:26 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 09:19 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:58 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:51 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age.
Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone Also a faux pas. I can find like 10 pictures that show the same thing with a google search lol. Please stop defending your bad argument and making yourself look bad :/ Google "Obama bow faux pas" and see how many results you get. Describe how my argument is bad instead of posting single images. In the context of Japan making an apology to China, why would it be strange if they bowed? (No I am not arguing whether they should or shouldnt' apologise). Both cultures are very similar in regards to apologising and losing face etc.. so why would it be more appropriate for this to be done under "international customs". (western culture). This is a good point that I admit I missed. I assumed he meant bowing down = kneeling on the ground. If there are a lot of them, it's not a faux pas. Logic ! Amazing isn't it?
If they're done by the same person, then the first few times he does it, it's considered a faux pas. If he continues to do it, people will think he is trying to start a precedent.
Your condescension is quite laughable, because you think you are being logical.
|
On September 23 2012 09:55 CountChocula wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 09:52 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 09:32 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 09:29 calderon wrote:On September 23 2012 09:26 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 09:19 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:58 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:51 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:
[quote]
President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone Also a faux pas. I can find like 10 pictures that show the same thing with a google search lol. Please stop defending your bad argument and making yourself look bad :/ Google "Obama bow faux pas" and see how many results you get. Describe how my argument is bad instead of posting single images. faux pas to who? people with cultural customs similar to yourself? Everyone apparently, since you don't see Chinese PMs bow to the Japanese emperor when they meet despite being from the region of East Asia where everyone bows. I wonder why that is... You know, it's funny. I even thought about including the disclaimer about the Obama bow not counting because it's an obvious faux pas and no other foreign head of state bows to the Japanese emperor, but alas. On September 23 2012 09:29 calderon wrote:On September 23 2012 09:26 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 09:19 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:58 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:51 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:
[quote]
President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone Also a faux pas. I can find like 10 pictures that show the same thing with a google search lol. Please stop defending your bad argument and making yourself look bad :/ Google "Obama bow faux pas" and see how many results you get. Describe how my argument is bad instead of posting single images. In the context of Japan making an apology to China, why would it be strange if they bowed? (No I am not arguing whether they should or shouldnt' apologise). Both cultures are very similar in regards to apologising and losing face etc.. so why would it be more appropriate for this to be done under "international customs". (western culture). This is a good point that I admit I missed. I assumed he meant bowing down = kneeling on the ground. If there are a lot of them, it's not a faux pas. Logic ! Amazing isn't it? If they're done by the same person, then the first few times he does it, it's considered a faux pas. If he continues to do it, people will think he is trying to start a precedent. Your condescension is quite laughable, because you think you are being logical.
I could post a bunch of pictures of other leaders doing it, but I've had enough laughs for one day. Maybe tomorrow we can continue.
|
On September 23 2012 09:10 Gingerninja wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 08:50 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 08:32 calderon wrote:On September 23 2012 08:01 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:40 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:19 Xpace wrote:On September 23 2012 06:02 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 05:53 Taku wrote:On September 23 2012 05:38 CountChocula wrote:
[quote]
Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. Yeah um, this is East Asia. Bowing is still pretty big. Also my read on robjapan's posts is that Japan is putting it's head in the sand and everyone should leave it alone, after they've kicked the sand in everyone's face. Bowing down is not used for apologies between countries in the modern era. Also, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. We're talking about stuff done on the international scene. Do statesmen take customs from their own countries and use them when they meet delegates from foreign nations? When was the last time a delegate from one country bowed down to a delegate from another? It's not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age. Also there's no guarantee the Chinese gov't won't use the tactic of riling up its own citizens in the future even if the emperor and the prime minister went to Beijing and did bow down. President Barack Hussein Obama. That was considered a faux pas by everyone. American ReactionFox News! What? If you read the link to Fox News, you see the question asked is: When the president of the United States is traveling overseas, do you think it is appropriate for him to bow to a foreign leader if that is the country’s custom or is it never appropriate for the president to bow to another leader? SCALE: 1. Yes, bow when it is the proper custom 2. No, it is never appropriate for the president to bow 3. (Don’t know) Yet despite what the average American thinks about how it should work, this article (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/obama-emperor-akihito-japan.html) states that it's certainly not the custom for foreign countries to greet foreign leaders by bowing. In fact, the only reason you remember this incident and why news media covered it is because of how odd it was in international politics. Wow. Your ignorance and arrogance are shining through brilliantly these last few pages. First of all, its not about the question that was posed, more the audience who the question was being posed to, in regards to his comment about the poll being from FOX news. Secondly, why can't things change. May be it was faux pas that they haven't been bowing when visiting a culture where this is the norm. What is international politics? Where are the customs spawned from? Can these change to adapt to different culture? All you are arguing is that International Politics and manner have been this way and the status quo is right. I don't think anyone who understands East Asian culture would've found it strange that he was bowing, or would've thought it was demeaning for him to do so. TBH when I saw that I thought wow, Obama atleast has some cultural sensitivity and respect. Basically, you are trying to point out rights and wrongs to do with social interactions and customs, when the nature of the topic is void of a 'right' answer. Way to drag the discussion off-topic when all I did was observe a fact--that "[bowing down] is not a custom on the international scene nor is it done when a country apologizes to another in the modern age." It's not like we're talking about interactions between 5-year olds here, where one kid shows repentance by bowing down until the other kid accepts the apology, then they kiss and make up. Since I've made my point and settled things with white_horse, I won't bother replying to posts like the one above that begin with ad hominems and ignore the rest of my argument. Yeah I have to chip in here, that's EXACTLY, how those cultures work. In Japan, you screw up? You bow. Even if your talking on the phone (yes I've seen it done) I can't speak first hand for China/Korea but I'm led to believe they are the same. Maybe try learning about the cultures in question and not just make stuff up?
Its not like you bow only when you screw up. Especially not on the phone. I slightly bow when I speak on the phone when asking someone for a favor etc.. I think thats more common.
I would however agree that the 最敬礼 Obama performed was a bit excessive and subjugating. That being said, its the proper way to greet the Emperor in Japanese society... except that Obama is not Japanese and an American president. Adding the handshake to everything makes it even more wierd. That being said, I think its better to try to be polite than the opposite for most people in most situations. ^.^
|
Canada2068 Posts
On September 23 2012 10:02 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 09:55 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 09:52 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 09:32 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 09:29 calderon wrote:On September 23 2012 09:26 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 09:19 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:58 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:51 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:
[quote]
That was considered a faux pas by everyone Also a faux pas. I can find like 10 pictures that show the same thing with a google search lol. Please stop defending your bad argument and making yourself look bad :/ Google "Obama bow faux pas" and see how many results you get. Describe how my argument is bad instead of posting single images. faux pas to who? people with cultural customs similar to yourself? Everyone apparently, since you don't see Chinese PMs bow to the Japanese emperor when they meet despite being from the region of East Asia where everyone bows. I wonder why that is... You know, it's funny. I even thought about including the disclaimer about the Obama bow not counting because it's an obvious faux pas and no other foreign head of state bows to the Japanese emperor, but alas. On September 23 2012 09:29 calderon wrote:On September 23 2012 09:26 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 09:19 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:58 CountChocula wrote:On September 23 2012 07:51 Feartheguru wrote:On September 23 2012 07:25 CountChocula wrote:
[quote]
That was considered a faux pas by everyone Also a faux pas. I can find like 10 pictures that show the same thing with a google search lol. Please stop defending your bad argument and making yourself look bad :/ Google "Obama bow faux pas" and see how many results you get. Describe how my argument is bad instead of posting single images. In the context of Japan making an apology to China, why would it be strange if they bowed? (No I am not arguing whether they should or shouldnt' apologise). Both cultures are very similar in regards to apologising and losing face etc.. so why would it be more appropriate for this to be done under "international customs". (western culture). This is a good point that I admit I missed. I assumed he meant bowing down = kneeling on the ground. If there are a lot of them, it's not a faux pas. Logic ! Amazing isn't it? If they're done by the same person, then the first few times he does it, it's considered a faux pas. If he continues to do it, people will think he is trying to start a precedent. Your condescension is quite laughable, because you think you are being logical. I could post a bunch of pictures of other leaders doing it, but I've had enough laughs for one day. Maybe tomorrow we can continue.
You could post a bunch of pictures showing foreign dignitaries bowing 90 degrees to other foreign dignitaries? I'd like to see it (assuming you're not bluffing of course).
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
