EPTPro-China, Anti-Japan Protests - Page 55
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CrayonPopChoa
Canada761 Posts
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MateShade
Australia736 Posts
On September 18 2012 13:12 RavenLoud wrote: HK was part of China until taken by the British as a colony..the majority of its population are ethnic Chinese, and not even Taiwan denies it's part of China, it's just a matter of civil war. "Why don't you give Australia back to the Aboriginals? I can't stand the way Australia deal with these things.", this is what you sound like. Those riots are stupid though, every Chinese person knows it. The sentiments behind them didn't come from the left field however. Reading KwarK's post would help. This is true, but if you ask any citizen in hong kong or taiwan, they despise the chinese, and wish for their country to be completely its own, and no the majority do NOT consider themselves to be chinese?? not sure when you got that from lol. I think aboriginals is a bad comparison for this also. Edit: 'and not even Taiwan denies it's part of China, it's just a matter of civil war.' - That couldn't be more incorrect. | ||
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Le BucheRON
Canada619 Posts
Yeah how about japan can give up these islands when china gives Taiwan and Hong Kong back to the people that live there lol. I cannot stand the way Chinese deal with these things. Or how about when China gives Tibet independence. When you start tracing back who has what it gets muddy really fast. | ||
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czylu
477 Posts
On September 18 2012 13:20 MateShade wrote: This is true, but if you ask any citizen in hong kong or taiwan, they despise the chinese, and wish for their country to be completely its own, and no the majority do NOT consider themselves to be chinese?? not sure when you got that from lol. I think aboriginals is a bad comparison for this also. that's complete bullshit. I'm not sure you realize, but before 1997(the year HK was turned over), much of the population of HK was filled with migrant workers from CHINA proper, HK was not just an isolated island walled off from the rest of the China. The majority of chinese there consider themselves both ethnically and nationalistically Chinese. Ask any Han person living in HK, and they will identify themselves as chinese. As for wanting communist rule, that's a different story. Nobody likes giving up power. Edit: And as for Taiwan, everyone in taiwan is chinese, there is ZERO argument there(the proper name for taiwan is even Republic of China). The people there speak chinese, it's pretty much china. Hell, Jeremy Lin(of taiwanese descent) visited his ancestral home(which was in China). Not that I've been to taiwan myself, but if you go there, I really doubt you'll find anyone there that considers there to be a racial or ethnical difference. It's only politics that keeps the two apart. | ||
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Azarkon
United States21060 Posts
On September 18 2012 13:20 MateShade wrote: This is true, but if you ask any citizen in hong kong or taiwan, they despise the chinese, and wish for their country to be completely its own, and no the majority do NOT consider themselves to be chinese?? not sure when you got that from lol. I think aboriginals is a bad comparison for this also. Edit: 'and not even Taiwan denies it's part of China, it's just a matter of civil war.' - That couldn't be more incorrect. HK Chinese look down on mainland Chinese, but they are Chinese. The protesters who landed on the disputed islands a while ago to protest Japan's occupation of them were, ironically enough for your post, from HK - and they were Chinese nationalists. Taiwan is a different story, but also ironically for your post, Taiwan is protesting Japan's occupation of the islands too. | ||
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czylu
477 Posts
On September 18 2012 13:40 Azarkon wrote: HK Chinese look down on mainland Chinese, but they are Chinese. The protesters who landed on the disputed islands a while ago to protest Japan's occupation of them were, ironically enough for your post, from HK - and they were Chinese nationalists. Taiwan is a different story, but also ironically for your post, Taiwan is protesting Japan's occupation of the islands too. yeah they look down on them, but how is that any different from a new yorker looking down on some1 living in the projects of newark. you have that with EVERY nation and EVERY culture. Take the indians and the caste system(or remnants of it). HK Chinese don't look down on mainlanders because they're mainlanders, they look down on them because they're poor and uneducated. | ||
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Sickkiee
Japan607 Posts
On September 18 2012 13:40 Azarkon wrote: HK Chinese look down on mainland Chinese, but they are Chinese. The protesters who landed on the disputed islands a while ago to protest Japan's occupation of them were, ironically enough for your post, from HK - and they were Chinese nationalists. Taiwan is a different story, but also ironically for your post, Taiwan is protesting Japan's occupation of the islands too. Of course Taiwan want to protest it, they think it belongs to them also LOL. | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On September 18 2012 13:20 MateShade wrote: This is true, but if you ask any citizen in hong kong or taiwan, they despise the chinese, and wish for their country to be completely its own, and no the majority do NOT consider themselves to be chinese?? not sure when you got that from lol. I think aboriginals is a bad comparison for this also. Edit: 'and not even Taiwan denies it's part of China, it's just a matter of civil war.' - That couldn't be more incorrect. You confuse China and Chinese with the CCP. Taiwan does consider itself Chinese...just not part of the PRC. EDIT: I might want to add, that China does not work the same way as the Western concept of a nation state does. Think of it as a civilization under 2 countries and a few different systems. | ||
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ref4
2933 Posts
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Xpace
United States2209 Posts
- The Emperor of Japan, the Prime Minister of Japan, and all members of the Japanese Diet must sign a hand-written, sincere apology letter to all countries whom Japan had killed citizens of, attacked, invaded and occupied. These include the non-Asian countries of Canada, the United States, France, the Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Russia (formerly the Soviet Union) and the United Kingdom who sent troops to various South East Asian countries for support and were considered belligerents in the war. This will also include formal apologies to countries whose later involvement in the Pacific theater must be commended and acknowledged by the relevant Axis power (Japan): Greece, Norway, Belgium, Brazil, the current states of the Czech Republic and Slovakia (formerly Czechoslovakia), Ukraine, Poland, South Africa, and any other country listed in the Charter of the United Nations under the United Nations Conference on International Organization held between April and July of 1945. - The Chrysanthemum Throne must send a full envoy with Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda that accompanies Emperor Akihito to Nanjing (Nanking), where he and the Prime Minister must get on their knees and bow with his forehead all the way to the floor (their knees and forehead must be exactly at sea level, facing a natural elevated slope such as the foot of a mountain, in complete humility and submission), for the same amount of time, if not more, that West German Chancellor Willy Brandt knelt in Warsaw. They must also give a speech, directly aimed at all the peoples of the Republic of China (Taiwan), the People's Republic of China, the Republic of Korea, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Macau (SAR), Hong Kong (SAR), the Republic of the Philippines, the Republic of Indonesia (former Dutch East-Indies), the [constitution of] Malaysia, and the Kingdom of Thailand, that may be aired repeatedly on state channels on the wishes of said governments and given freely to any privately owned corporate broadcasting station, showing complete remorse for the actions of the Imperial Japanese Army in the Pacific theater during World War II. NHK (Nippon Hoso Kyokai, the national channel in Japan) must air this at relevant prime time slots for a minimum of four weeks, and all other relevant terrestrial broadcast stations are expected to air footage at similar, non-intrusive time slots at prime time. All foreign non-Asian nations willing to air the contents this particular address are allowed to do so at their expense. - Japan must build and donate statues and/or shrines commemorating the victims and the casualties of the Pacific War. Every country affected by Japanese aggression, or suffered Japanese occupation, decides what to do with the memorials. They must rival the grandeur and size of the memorials in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and Japan must actively seek and work with the aforementioned countries for the exact details of the memorials, including, but not limited to, listing the names of all known and recorded casualties and the appropriate symbolism(s) that will be used in each individual, unique memorial which will emphasize regret, apology, a willingness to work for future friendship, and that the events will never be forgotten. - Japan must acknowledge, in full, the atrocities it had committed during World War II. Sources cited by the Allied powers (particularly Canadian presence in Hong Kong, French and British presence in both Korea and China, Dutch presence in the Philippines and Indonesia, and the overall presence of the former Soviet Union (USSR) and the United States Army, Navy and Air Force in the entire Pacific region from the years 1939 to 1945), as well as sources cited by China and all the relevant participants within the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN), even when contradicting Japanese history, must be written and published, mentioned and taught, learned and accepted by all relevant historical academia and governing bodies of education in Japan. All forms of curriculum must include these contents, after appropriation and review by the relevant historians of the United States of America, China, and the Republic of Korea (all three of whom previously led the attempts to convince Japan to not omit these facts in their history for half a century), by latest 2015, marking the 70-year anniversary of the unconditional surrender of the Imperial Japanese Army and the Empire of the Rising Sun to the Allied powers of the West and the East, and the official end of World War II. Germany has the respect of Poland, the rest of the European Union, and the whole world, and they did more or less everything mentioned. | ||
Womwomwom
5930 Posts
Europe is a special case because after centuries of killing their own people, blowing up their own infrastructure twice in two World Wars, and generally making everyone unhappy, they've got all of the shit out of their system once and for all. Its not just Germany, its everyone in the region. For instance, Japan has just submitted the Dokdo issue to the International Court of Justice for like the third time but South Korea obviously isn't going to take part. Japan has zero chance of winning their maritime claims over Dokdo and I'm fairly certain they know that. From what I know, the only reason they even try defending their control of the islands is to get votes in a prefecture that "apparently" controls the area. If they lose the islands, nothing will really happen in Japan but if Korea wins the islands, they lose a political button to press every time an election comes along. Similarly, Japan and China won't submit these islands to the ICJ because both have everything to lose. Japan theoretically already controls the islands so they won't want the chance of losing it. In China's case, a vast majority of their maritime claims revolve around people sticking flags on rocks and not much else. I don't even think they've actually legally defined their boundaries in the South China Sea or around Diaoyu islands so... Until there's no reason to push a heavy nationalistic agenda, this problem will simply spin around and around until everyone gets some sense to work together, like Europe has. I am not saying that they shouldn't do that but it won't exactly solve the fundamental political problems in the region. | ||
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Sickkiee
Japan607 Posts
On September 18 2012 14:21 Xpace wrote: A lot of people are asking what Japan should do. Well, here's a short, incomplete list that acts as a starter: - The Emperor of Japan, the Prime Minister of Japan, and all members of the Japanese Diet must sign a hand-written, sincere apology letter to all countries whom Japan had killed citizens of, attacked, invaded and occupied. These include the non-Asian countries of Canada, the United States, France, the Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Russia (formerly the Soviet Union) and the United Kingdom who sent troops to various South East Asian countries for support and were considered belligerents in the war. This will also include formal apologies to countries whose later involvement in the Pacific theater must be commended and acknowledged by the relevant Axis power (Japan): Greece, Norway, Belgium, Brazil, the current states of the Czech Republic and Slovakia (formerly Czechoslovakia), Ukraine, Poland, South Africa, and any other country listed in the Charter of the United Nations under the United Nations Conference on International Organization held between April and July of 1945. - The Chrysanthemum Throne must send a full envoy with Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda that accompanies Emperor Akihito to Nanjing (Nanking), where he and the Prime Minister must get on their knees and bow with his forehead all the way to the floor (their knees and forehead must be exactly at sea level, facing a natural elevated slope such as the foot of a mountain, in complete humility and submission), for the same amount of time, if not more, that West German Chancellor Willy Brandt knelt in Warsaw. They must also give a speech, directly aimed at all the peoples of the Republic of China (Taiwan), the People's Republic of China, the Republic of Korea, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Macau (SAR), Hong Kong (SAR), the Republic of the Philippines, the Republic of Indonesia (former Dutch East-Indies), the [constitution of] Malaysia, and the Kingdom of Thailand, that may be aired repeatedly on state channels on the wishes of said governments and given freely to any privately owned corporate broadcasting station, showing complete remorse for the actions of the Imperial Japanese Army in the Pacific theater during World War II. NHK (Nippon Hoso Kyokai, the national channel in Japan) must air this at relevant prime time slots for a minimum of four weeks, and all other relevant terrestrial broadcast stations are expected to air footage at similar, non-intrusive time slots at prime time. All foreign non-Asian nations willing to air the contents this particular address are allowed to do so at their expense. - Japan must build and donate statues and/or shrines commemorating the victims and the casualties of the Pacific War. Every country affected by Japanese aggression, or suffered Japanese occupation, decides what to do with the memorials. They must rival the grandeur and size of the memorials in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and Japan must actively seek and work with the aforementioned countries for the exact details of the memorials, including, but not limited to, listing the names of all known and recorded casualties and the appropriate symbolism(s) that will be used in each individual, unique memorial which will emphasize regret, apology, a willingness to work for future friendship, and that the events will never be forgotten. - Japan must acknowledge, in full, the atrocities it had committed during World War II. Sources cited by the Allied powers (particularly Canadian presence in Hong Kong, French and British presence in both Korea and China, Dutch presence in the Philippines and Indonesia, and the overall presence of the former Soviet Union (USSR) and the United States Army, Navy and Air Force in the entire Pacific region from the years 1939 to 1945), as well as sources cited by China and all the relevant participants within the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN), even when contradicting Japanese history, must be written and published, mentioned and taught, learned and accepted by all relevant historical academia and governing bodies of education in Japan. All forms of curriculum must include these contents, after appropriation and review by the relevant historians of the United States of America, China, and the Republic of Korea (all three of whom previously led the attempts to convince Japan to not omit these facts in their history for half a century), by latest 2015, marking the 70-year anniversary of the unconditional surrender of the Imperial Japanese Army and the Empire of the Rising Sun to the Allied powers of the West and the East, and the official end of World War II. Germany has the respect of Poland, the rest of the European Union, and the whole world, and they did more or less everything mentioned. It's been how many years now? What makes you think they will do that. Not to mention it won't change much. People will still hate Japanese people being 'arrogant, up themselves' etc etc. | ||
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Brutaxilos
United States2630 Posts
On September 18 2012 14:44 Sickkiee wrote: It's been how many years now? What makes you think they will do that. Not to mention it won't change much. People will still hate Japanese people being 'arrogant, up themselves' etc etc. Well, I actually think this was a smart thing to do. Frankly, right now with most of Asia looking at this situation, if Japan TRULY did do this, I'm sure the relations would be much more amicable. | ||
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Xpace
United States2209 Posts
On September 18 2012 14:44 Sickkiee wrote: It's been how many years now? What makes you think they will do that. Not to mention it won't change much. People will still hate Japanese people being 'arrogant, up themselves' etc etc. Kniefall von Warschau happened in 1970. The war ended in 1945. That's 25 years after. Your past posts and general attitude in this thread is atypical of why there's anti-Japanese sentiment, as mentioned by KwarK. "It won't change much" - well, you're not the judge of that, and on a broader scale, none of us are even remotely capable of predicting if it will "be enough". It's a start, it's a step. And Germany took a LOT of steps. I'm not pointing the finger at you (especially if you're Japanese), but your reaction is pretty much "even though it won't cost us much to do these things, and we're not sacrificing anything physically, we'd rather not because we feel like it won't result into anything (when in actual fact we're simply too prideful)" Actions speak louder than words. | ||
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SmokeMonster
Canada72 Posts
Yes, we are of Chinese-descent, but we do not consider ourselves Chinese in the sense of being part of the People's Republic of China. Since the Chinese Civil War ended, the PRC government has turned China into shit: destroyed all Chinese literature, use senseless simplified fonts for text, lost morals (little yueyue anyone?), lost cultural values, lost education, gave the country a bad reputation, plus a ton more despicable things that'll take me days to list them out. I don't want to be associated with this country, not until they get their shit together. Also, just to be on topic, Diaoyu Islands does not belong to Japan. Finally, for people saying PRC/Taiwan has to stop hating on Japan because the wars has long since passed, how about no. How many pearl harbour related films/books/TV shows has the US made? Imagine the Japanese come back and doing that to you (but 100x worse) every few decades. You'll still forgive them, eh? China (all dynasties and states), in its 5000 years history, has never initiated an attack on Japan, ever. Japan was, is, and always will be a greedy country. | ||
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Matoo-
Canada1397 Posts
On September 18 2012 13:25 czylu wrote: Edit: And as for Taiwan, everyone in taiwan is chinese, there is ZERO argument there(the proper name for taiwan is even Republic of China). The people there speak chinese, it's pretty much china. Hell, Jeremy Lin(of taiwanese descent) visited his ancestral home(which was in China). Not that I've been to taiwan myself, but if you go there, I really doubt you'll find anyone there that considers there to be a racial or ethnical difference. It's only politics that keeps the two apart. It's quite confusing how you use the word China - at first you say that Taiwan is part of China, so by China you obviously don't mean PRC or mainland (because Taiwan doesn't belong to either), but then you say that Jeremy Lin visited his "ancestral home in China", so there by China you mean the mainland... So which one is it? Also I've worked in a power plant in Taiwan a few times, with co-workers both from the mainland and from Taiwan, and discussed quite extensively with them about it - of course it's only anecdotal evidence, but for what it's worth: - The mainlanders felt intensely uneasy in Taiwan and were looking forward to going back home as soon as possible - The taiwanese insisted a lot on their cultural differences with the mainland, and how their culture had remained true while mainland culture had gone down the drain So yeah while I agree that there isn't much of a racial or ethnical difference, I do not believe that it's merely a political difference that sets them apart today, I felt that taiwanese people (at least the ones I met) had a strong sense of identity and it wasn't just a matter of "yeah the mainland just needs to get rid of their party/commie bullshit and be democratic and we'll happily reunite because apart from that we're just the same". | ||
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coverpunch
United States2093 Posts
On September 18 2012 14:21 Xpace wrote: A lot of people are asking what Japan should do. Well, here's a short, incomplete list that acts as a starter: - The Emperor of Japan, the Prime Minister of Japan, and all members of the Japanese Diet must sign a hand-written, sincere apology letter to all countries whom Japan had killed citizens of, attacked, invaded and occupied. These include the non-Asian countries of Canada, the United States, France, the Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Russia (formerly the Soviet Union) and the United Kingdom who sent troops to various South East Asian countries for support and were considered belligerents in the war. This will also include formal apologies to countries whose later involvement in the Pacific theater must be commended and acknowledged by the relevant Axis power (Japan): Greece, Norway, Belgium, Brazil, the current states of the Czech Republic and Slovakia (formerly Czechoslovakia), Ukraine, Poland, South Africa, and any other country listed in the Charter of the United Nations under the United Nations Conference on International Organization held between April and July of 1945. - The Chrysanthemum Throne must send a full envoy with Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda that accompanies Emperor Akihito to Nanjing (Nanking), where he and the Prime Minister must get on their knees and bow with his forehead all the way to the floor (their knees and forehead must be exactly at sea level, facing a natural elevated slope such as the foot of a mountain, in complete humility and submission), for the same amount of time, if not more, that West German Chancellor Willy Brandt knelt in Warsaw. They must also give a speech, directly aimed at all the peoples of the Republic of China (Taiwan), the People's Republic of China, the Republic of Korea, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Macau (SAR), Hong Kong (SAR), the Republic of the Philippines, the Republic of Indonesia (former Dutch East-Indies), the [constitution of] Malaysia, and the Kingdom of Thailand, that may be aired repeatedly on state channels on the wishes of said governments and given freely to any privately owned corporate broadcasting station, showing complete remorse for the actions of the Imperial Japanese Army in the Pacific theater during World War II. NHK (Nippon Hoso Kyokai, the national channel in Japan) must air this at relevant prime time slots for a minimum of four weeks, and all other relevant terrestrial broadcast stations are expected to air footage at similar, non-intrusive time slots at prime time. All foreign non-Asian nations willing to air the contents this particular address are allowed to do so at their expense. - Japan must build and donate statues and/or shrines commemorating the victims and the casualties of the Pacific War. Every country affected by Japanese aggression, or suffered Japanese occupation, decides what to do with the memorials. They must rival the grandeur and size of the memorials in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and Japan must actively seek and work with the aforementioned countries for the exact details of the memorials, including, but not limited to, listing the names of all known and recorded casualties and the appropriate symbolism(s) that will be used in each individual, unique memorial which will emphasize regret, apology, a willingness to work for future friendship, and that the events will never be forgotten. - Japan must acknowledge, in full, the atrocities it had committed during World War II. Sources cited by the Allied powers (particularly Canadian presence in Hong Kong, French and British presence in both Korea and China, Dutch presence in the Philippines and Indonesia, and the overall presence of the former Soviet Union (USSR) and the United States Army, Navy and Air Force in the entire Pacific region from the years 1939 to 1945), as well as sources cited by China and all the relevant participants within the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN), even when contradicting Japanese history, must be written and published, mentioned and taught, learned and accepted by all relevant historical academia and governing bodies of education in Japan. All forms of curriculum must include these contents, after appropriation and review by the relevant historians of the United States of America, China, and the Republic of Korea (all three of whom previously led the attempts to convince Japan to not omit these facts in their history for half a century), by latest 2015, marking the 70-year anniversary of the unconditional surrender of the Imperial Japanese Army and the Empire of the Rising Sun to the Allied powers of the West and the East, and the official end of World War II. Germany has the respect of Poland, the rest of the European Union, and the whole world, and they did more or less everything mentioned. So Japan doesn't get any credit for the things they've done for Asia? Japan is a leading reason for the prosperity and technological progress of people in all Asian countries. If it weren't for the model that Japan provided, South Korea would be just another miserable little speck on the planet. If it weren't for the technology that Japan introduced and traded with Taiwan, it would be a two-bit dictatorship or worse, integrated under the iron fist with which China has repeatedly punched itself in the face. Most significantly, if it weren't for Japan, most of Asia might still be under Western imperialism. These things you want the Japanese to do reek of humiliation, not humility. You're asking Japan to turn over some parts of their sovereignty over to a multilateral commission and you're about 50 years too late for that to ever happen. The US already played that card by treating MacArthur as proconsul of Japan. | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On September 18 2012 14:56 SmokeMonster wrote: I am originally from Taiwan. Please stop saying Taiwanese people think we're part of PRC. Yes, we are of Chinese-descent, but we do not consider ourselves Chinese in the sense of being part of the People's Republic of China. Since the Chinese Civil War ended, the PRC government has turned China into shit: destroyed all Chinese literature, use senseless simplified fonts for text, lost morals (little yueyue anyone?), lost cultural values, lost education, gave the country a bad reputation, plus a ton more despicable things that'll take me days to list them out. I don't want to be associated with this country, not until they get their shit together. Also, just to be on topic, Diaoyu Islands does not belong to Japan. Finally, for people saying PRC/Taiwan has to stop hating on Japan because the wars has long since passed, how about no. How many pearl harbour related films/books/TV shows has the US made? Imagine the Japanese come back and doing that to you (but 100x worse) every few decades. You'll still forgive them, eh? China (all dynasties and states), in its 5000 years history, has never initiated an attack on Japan, ever. Japan was, is, and always will be a greedy country. Well said. Nobody in this thread said that Taiwan considers itself part of the PRC though, I said that Taiwan = Chinese, but not PRC. inb4someone mentions Kublai Khan's Mongol invasions of Japan again so I can argue against it for the 3th time. On September 18 2012 14:59 Matoo- wrote: It's quite confusing how you use the word China - at first you say that Taiwan is part of China, so by China you obviously don't mean PRC or mainland (because Taiwan doesn't belong to either), but then you say that Jeremy Lin visited his "ancestral home in China", so there by China you mean the mainland... So which one is it? As I said, China is not a nation state by European standards. It's a civilization under 2 countries (but the PRC kind of forces everyone to deny it). There is a bigger divide than it should've had due to the Cultural Revolution though. Both RoC and PRC are China, and HK too. PRC vs RoC is kind of like North Korea vs South Korea except that the North won 95% of it, then decided to go crazy for a whole decade to destroy their own culture. | ||
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Orek
1665 Posts
On September 18 2012 14:21 Xpace wrote: A lot of people are asking what Japan should do. Well, here's a short, incomplete list that acts as a starter: - The Emperor of Japan, the Prime Minister of Japan, and all members of the Japanese Diet must sign a hand-written, sincere apology letter to all countries whom Japan had killed citizens of, attacked, invaded and occupied. These include the non-Asian countries of Canada, the United States, France, the Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Russia (formerly the Soviet Union) and the United Kingdom who sent troops to various South East Asian countries for support and were considered belligerents in the war. This will also include formal apologies to countries whose later involvement in the Pacific theater must be commended and acknowledged by the relevant Axis power (Japan): Greece, Norway, Belgium, Brazil, the current states of the Czech Republic and Slovakia (formerly Czechoslovakia), Ukraine, Poland, South Africa, and any other country listed in the Charter of the United Nations under the United Nations Conference on International Organization held between April and July of 1945. - The Chrysanthemum Throne must send a full envoy with Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda that accompanies Emperor Akihito to Nanjing (Nanking), where he and the Prime Minister must get on their knees and bow with his forehead all the way to the floor (their knees and forehead must be exactly at sea level, facing a natural elevated slope such as the foot of a mountain, in complete humility and submission), for the same amount of time, if not more, that West German Chancellor Willy Brandt knelt in Warsaw. They must also give a speech, directly aimed at all the peoples of the Republic of China (Taiwan), the People's Republic of China, the Republic of Korea, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Macau (SAR), Hong Kong (SAR), the Republic of the Philippines, the Republic of Indonesia (former Dutch East-Indies), the [constitution of] Malaysia, and the Kingdom of Thailand, that may be aired repeatedly on state channels on the wishes of said governments and given freely to any privately owned corporate broadcasting station, showing complete remorse for the actions of the Imperial Japanese Army in the Pacific theater during World War II. NHK (Nippon Hoso Kyokai, the national channel in Japan) must air this at relevant prime time slots for a minimum of four weeks, and all other relevant terrestrial broadcast stations are expected to air footage at similar, non-intrusive time slots at prime time. All foreign non-Asian nations willing to air the contents this particular address are allowed to do so at their expense. - Japan must build and donate statues and/or shrines commemorating the victims and the casualties of the Pacific War. Every country affected by Japanese aggression, or suffered Japanese occupation, decides what to do with the memorials. They must rival the grandeur and size of the memorials in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and Japan must actively seek and work with the aforementioned countries for the exact details of the memorials, including, but not limited to, listing the names of all known and recorded casualties and the appropriate symbolism(s) that will be used in each individual, unique memorial which will emphasize regret, apology, a willingness to work for future friendship, and that the events will never be forgotten. - Japan must acknowledge, in full, the atrocities it had committed during World War II. Sources cited by the Allied powers (particularly Canadian presence in Hong Kong, French and British presence in both Korea and China, Dutch presence in the Philippines and Indonesia, and the overall presence of the former Soviet Union (USSR) and the United States Army, Navy and Air Force in the entire Pacific region from the years 1939 to 1945), as well as sources cited by China and all the relevant participants within the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN), even when contradicting Japanese history, must be written and published, mentioned and taught, learned and accepted by all relevant historical academia and governing bodies of education in Japan. All forms of curriculum must include these contents, after appropriation and review by the relevant historians of the United States of America, China, and the Republic of Korea (all three of whom previously led the attempts to convince Japan to not omit these facts in their history for half a century), by latest 2015, marking the 70-year anniversary of the unconditional surrender of the Imperial Japanese Army and the Empire of the Rising Sun to the Allied powers of the West and the East, and the official end of World War II. Germany has the respect of Poland, the rest of the European Union, and the whole world, and they did more or less everything mentioned. Hmm. I agree with some of those, but I question others. It sounds like you support the idea of "Forget facts, accept everything US, China, and Korea say including fraudulent ones just because you lost the war." To be fair, Japan has been doing pissed poor job at apologizing even for the things that Japanese government admits have happened during WWII. There is no denying that acts against Hague Conventions occured during Imperial Japanese rule, yet Japanese apology toward it doesn't seem sincere. However, that doesn't mean Japan has to do everything victim/winner sides say if that's what you are suggesting. | ||
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Sickkiee
Japan607 Posts
On September 18 2012 14:55 Xpace wrote: Kniefall von Warschau happened in 1970. The war ended in 1945. That's 25 years after. Your past posts and general attitude in this thread is atypical of why there's anti-Japanese sentiment, as mentioned by KwarK. "It won't change much" - well, you're not the judge of that, and on a broader scale, none of us are even remotely capable of predicting if it will "be enough". It's a start, it's a step. And Germany took a LOT of steps. I'm not pointing the finger at you (especially if you're Japanese), but your reaction is pretty much "even though it won't cost us much to do these things, and we're not sacrificing anything physically, we'd rather not because we feel like it won't result into anything (when in actual fact we're simply too prideful)" Actions speak louder than words. Costs them (I am not Japanese but of Polish decent). At our time and age, any country who would do the following would lose all sense of nationality, even if it's for such a terrible crime (do not get me wrong I think it's horrible too, but you're not thinking REALISTICALLY). Sure most people in Japan who I've spoken to about the matter in the past few days feel sorry and apologetic; however why should the present people of Japan have to be forced fed these facts? Are they the people who committed the acts? CAN or WILL they commit them again? You come off like Japan is secretly build an army to rape and massacre the world. I agree with barely half of your 'statement'. The rest is fantasy. | ||
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