Pro-China, Anti-Japan Protests - Page 57

On September 18 2012 14:21 Xpace wrote:
A lot of people are asking what Japan should do. Well, here's a short, incomplete list that acts as a starter:

- The Emperor of Japan, the Prime Minister of Japan, and all members of the Japanese Diet must sign a hand-written, sincere apology letter to all countries whom Japan had killed citizens of, attacked, invaded and occupied. These include the non-Asian countries of Canada, the United States, France, the Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Russia (formerly the Soviet Union) and the United Kingdom who sent troops to various South East Asian countries for support and were considered belligerents in the war. This will also include formal apologies to countries whose later involvement in the Pacific theater must be commended and acknowledged by the relevant Axis power (Japan): Greece, Norway, Belgium, Brazil, the current states of the Czech Republic and Slovakia (formerly Czechoslovakia), Ukraine, Poland, South Africa, and any other country listed in the Charter of the United Nations under the United Nations Conference on International Organization held between April and July of 1945.

- The Chrysanthemum Throne must send a full envoy with Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda that accompanies Emperor Akihito to Nanjing (Nanking), where he and the Prime Minister must get on their knees and bow with his forehead all the way to the floor (their knees and forehead must be exactly at sea level, facing a natural elevated slope such as the foot of a mountain, in complete humility and submission), for the same amount of time, if not more, that West German Chancellor Willy Brandt knelt in Warsaw. They must also give a speech, directly aimed at all the peoples of the Republic of China (Taiwan), the People's Republic of China, the Republic of Korea, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Macau (SAR), Hong Kong (SAR), the Republic of the Philippines, the Republic of Indonesia (former Dutch East-Indies), the [constitution of] Malaysia, and the Kingdom of Thailand, that may be aired repeatedly on state channels on the wishes of said governments and given freely to any privately owned corporate broadcasting station, showing complete remorse for the actions of the Imperial Japanese Army in the Pacific theater during World War II. NHK (Nippon Hoso Kyokai, the national channel in Japan) must air this at relevant prime time slots for a minimum of four weeks, and all other relevant terrestrial broadcast stations are expected to air footage at similar, non-intrusive time slots at prime time. All foreign non-Asian nations willing to air the contents this particular address are allowed to do so at their expense.

- Japan must build and donate statues and/or shrines commemorating the victims and the casualties of the Pacific War. Every country affected by Japanese aggression, or suffered Japanese occupation, decides what to do with the memorials. They must rival the grandeur and size of the memorials in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and Japan must actively seek and work with the aforementioned countries for the exact details of the memorials, including, but not limited to, listing the names of all known and recorded casualties and the appropriate symbolism(s) that will be used in each individual, unique memorial which will emphasize regret, apology, a willingness to work for future friendship, and that the events will never be forgotten.

- Japan must acknowledge, in full, the atrocities it had committed during World War II. Sources cited by the Allied powers (particularly Canadian presence in Hong Kong, French and British presence in both Korea and China, Dutch presence in the Philippines and Indonesia, and the overall presence of the former Soviet Union (USSR) and the United States Army, Navy and Air Force in the entire Pacific region from the years 1939 to 1945), as well as sources cited by China and all the relevant participants within the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN), even when contradicting Japanese history, must be written and published, mentioned and taught, learned and accepted by all relevant historical academia and governing bodies of education in Japan. All forms of curriculum must include these contents, after appropriation and review by the relevant historians of the United States of America, China, and the Republic of Korea (all three of whom previously led the attempts to convince Japan to not omit these facts in their history for half a century), by latest 2015, marking the 70-year anniversary of the unconditional surrender of the Imperial Japanese Army and the Empire of the Rising Sun to the Allied powers of the West and the East, and the official end of World War II.

Germany has the respect of Poland, the rest of the European Union, and the whole world, and they did more or less everything mentioned.

On September 18 2012 14:21 Xpace wrote:
A lot of people are asking what Japan should do. Well, here's a short, incomplete list that acts as a starter:

- The Emperor of Japan, the Prime Minister of Japan, and all members of the Japanese Diet must sign a hand-written, sincere apology letter to all countries whom Japan had killed citizens of, attacked, invaded and occupied. These include the non-Asian countries of Canada, the United States, France, the Netherlands, Australia, New Zealand, Russia (formerly the Soviet Union) and the United Kingdom who sent troops to various South East Asian countries for support and were considered belligerents in the war. This will also include formal apologies to countries whose later involvement in the Pacific theater must be commended and acknowledged by the relevant Axis power (Japan): Greece, Norway, Belgium, Brazil, the current states of the Czech Republic and Slovakia (formerly Czechoslovakia), Ukraine, Poland, South Africa, and any other country listed in the Charter of the United Nations under the United Nations Conference on International Organization held between April and July of 1945.

- The Chrysanthemum Throne must send a full envoy with Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda that accompanies Emperor Akihito to Nanjing (Nanking), where he and the Prime Minister must get on their knees and bow with his forehead all the way to the floor (their knees and forehead must be exactly at sea level, facing a natural elevated slope such as the foot of a mountain, in complete humility and submission), for the same amount of time, if not more, that West German Chancellor Willy Brandt knelt in Warsaw. They must also give a speech, directly aimed at all the peoples of the Republic of China (Taiwan), the People's Republic of China, the Republic of Korea, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, Macau (SAR), Hong Kong (SAR), the Republic of the Philippines, the Republic of Indonesia (former Dutch East-Indies), the [constitution of] Malaysia, and the Kingdom of Thailand, that may be aired repeatedly on state channels on the wishes of said governments and given freely to any privately owned corporate broadcasting station, showing complete remorse for the actions of the Imperial Japanese Army in the Pacific theater during World War II. NHK (Nippon Hoso Kyokai, the national channel in Japan) must air this at relevant prime time slots for a minimum of four weeks, and all other relevant terrestrial broadcast stations are expected to air footage at similar, non-intrusive time slots at prime time. All foreign non-Asian nations willing to air the contents this particular address are allowed to do so at their expense.

- Japan must build and donate statues and/or shrines commemorating the victims and the casualties of the Pacific War. Every country affected by Japanese aggression, or suffered Japanese occupation, decides what to do with the memorials. They must rival the grandeur and size of the memorials in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and Japan must actively seek and work with the aforementioned countries for the exact details of the memorials, including, but not limited to, listing the names of all known and recorded casualties and the appropriate symbolism(s) that will be used in each individual, unique memorial which will emphasize regret, apology, a willingness to work for future friendship, and that the events will never be forgotten.

- Japan must acknowledge, in full, the atrocities it had committed during World War II. Sources cited by the Allied powers (particularly Canadian presence in Hong Kong, French and British presence in both Korea and China, Dutch presence in the Philippines and Indonesia, and the overall presence of the former Soviet Union (USSR) and the United States Army, Navy and Air Force in the entire Pacific region from the years 1939 to 1945), as well as sources cited by China and all the relevant participants within the Association of South East Asian Nations (ASEAN), even when contradicting Japanese history, must be written and published, mentioned and taught, learned and accepted by all relevant historical academia and governing bodies of education in Japan. All forms of curriculum must include these contents, after appropriation and review by the relevant historians of the United States of America, China, and the Republic of Korea (all three of whom previously led the attempts to convince Japan to not omit these facts in their history for half a century), by latest 2015, marking the 70-year anniversary of the unconditional surrender of the Imperial Japanese Army and the Empire of the Rising Sun to the Allied powers of the West and the East, and the official end of World War II.

Germany has the respect of Poland, the rest of the European Union, and the whole world, and they did more or less everything mentioned.

On September 18 2012 14:55 Xpace wrote:


Kniefall von Warschau happened in 1970. The war ended in 1945. That's 25 years after.

Your past posts and general attitude in this thread is atypical of why there's anti-Japanese sentiment, as mentioned by KwarK. "It won't change much" - well, you're not the judge of that, and on a broader scale, none of us are even remotely capable of predicting if it will "be enough". It's a start, it's a step. And Germany took a LOT of steps. I'm not pointing the finger at you (especially if you're Japanese), but your reaction is pretty much "even though it won't cost us much to do these things, and we're not sacrificing anything physically, we'd rather not because we feel like it won't result into anything (when in actual fact we're simply too prideful)" Actions speak louder than words.

On September 18 2012 15:06 Orek wrote:


Hmm. I agree with some of those, but I question others. It sounds like you support the idea of "Forget facts, accept everything US, China, and Korea say including fraudulent ones just because you lost the war." To be fair, Japan has been doing pissed poor job at apologizing even for the things that Japanese government admits have happened during WWII. There is no denying that acts against Hague Conventions occured during Imperial Japanese rule, yet Japanese apology toward it doesn't seem sincere. However, that doesn't mean Japan has to do everything victim/winner sides say if that's what you are suggesting.

On September 18 2012 15:03 coverpunch wrote:


So Japan doesn't get any credit for the things they've done for Asia? Japan is a leading reason for the prosperity and technological progress of people in all Asian countries. If it weren't for the model that Japan provided, South Korea would be just another miserable little speck on the planet. If it weren't for the technology that Japan introduced and traded with Taiwan, it would be a two-bit dictatorship or worse, integrated under the iron fist with which China has repeatedly punched itself in the face. Most significantly, if it weren't for Japan, most of Asia might still be under Western imperialism.

These things you want the Japanese to do reek of humiliation, not humility. You're asking Japan to turn over some parts of their sovereignty over to a multilateral commission and you're about 50 years too late for that to ever happen. The US already played that card by treating MacArthur as proconsul of Japan.

On September 18 2012 15:08 Sickkiee wrote:


Costs them (I am not Japanese but of Polish decent). At our time and age, any country who would do the following would lose all sense of nationality, even if it's for such a terrible crime (do not get me wrong I think it's horrible too, but you're not thinking REALISTICALLY). Sure most people in Japan who I've spoken to about the matter in the past few days feel sorry and apologetic; however why should the present people of Japan have to be forced fed these facts? Are they the people who committed the acts? CAN or WILL they commit them again?

You come off like Japan is secretly build an army to rape and massacre the world. I agree with barely half of your 'statement'. The rest is fantasy.

On September 18 2012 15:06 Orek wrote:


Hmm. I agree with some of those, but I question others. It sounds like you support the idea of "Forget facts, accept everything US, China, and Korea say including fraudulent ones just because you lost the war." To be fair, Japan has been doing pissed poor job at apologizing even for the things that Japanese government admits have happened during WWII. There is no denying that acts against Hague Conventions occured during Imperial Japanese rule, yet Japanese apology toward it doesn't seem sincere. However, that doesn't mean Japan has to do everything victim/winner sides say if that's what you are suggesting.

On September 18 2012 15:03 coverpunch wrote:


So Japan doesn't get any credit for the things they've done for Asia? Japan is a leading reason for the prosperity and technological progress of people in all Asian countries. If it weren't for the model that Japan provided, South Korea would be just another miserable little speck on the planet. If it weren't for the technology that Japan introduced and traded with Taiwan, it would be a two-bit dictatorship or worse, integrated under the iron fist with which China has repeatedly punched itself in the face. Most significantly, if it weren't for Japan, most of Asia might still be under Western imperialism.

These things you want the Japanese to do reek of humiliation, not humility. You're asking Japan to turn over some parts of their sovereignty over to a multilateral commission and you're about 50 years too late for that to ever happen. The US already played that card by treating MacArthur as proconsul of Japan.

On September 18 2012 15:08 Sickkiee wrote:


Costs them (I am not Japanese but of Polish decent). At our time and age, any country who would do the following would lose all sense of nationality, even if it's for such a terrible crime (do not get me wrong I think it's horrible too, but you're not thinking REALISTICALLY). Sure most people in Japan who I've spoken to about the matter in the past few days feel sorry and apologetic; however why should the present people of Japan have to be forced fed these facts? Are they the people who committed the acts? CAN or WILL they commit them again?

You come off like Japan is secretly build an army to rape and massacre the world. I agree with barely half of your 'statement'. The rest is fantasy.

On September 18 2012 15:22 Xpace wrote:


You're looking at one particular sentence, so I bolded it within my quote. The Japanese CAN teach the facts that they have been teaching all along, but they should INCLUDE the facts given by other countries, not just Korea, China and the United States, as long as it's historical evidence, reviewed and accepted by historians of those institutions, whether or not it's biased. This is just ONE tiny, little thing that students learning history should be aware of.



"We can rape your women, children, burn and pillage your homes, force you to learn and use our language, force you to use the Yen, subject you to torture and pain, and degrade you on a physical and mental level, but we gave you technology and prosperity! So, call it even?"

Extremities at its worst. And I won't even touch the subject of how Japan itself benefited from all these "wondrous gifts to neighboring Korea and China". And you make it sound like Japan literally handed the wealth to Korea. No, the Koreans worked for it too. The Taiwanese worked for it too. The Chinese worked for it too. Germany, on the other hand, actually had a number they had to reach.

And finally, I'm going to infer that you're Japanese? Or at least, you have roots in Japan? If I'm wrong I apologize, but only a Japanese person would read what I wrote and say "that's humiliating!!!".

When Willy Brandt knelt, half of West Germany's population thought it was "excessive and humiliating". Ask a person who was alive to witness the event if they still think it's excessive today.



Costs them what? Sense of nationality? Isn't 'sense of nationality' the reason why there's protests in China right now?? National pride and patriotism isn't necessary in today's society. I'm not saying it's USELESS, I'm saying society won't collapse without it.

Did the younger generation of West Germany in 1970 have anything to do with World War II? No.
Did they belong to the Nazi regime? No.
Did their parents STILL associate themselves with the Nazi regime? An overwhelming majority - No.
Did they have the same opinion as you, that it was 'excessive and humiliating'? 48% of them did. 41% thought it was appropriate. 11% had no opinion.
Unless the Japanese are so rooted in pride and honor that 100% of them will flat out rage if anything even remotely close to what I wrote would happen, then that's a different story, but I would like someone to affirm their belief that it's a possibility (because that's just... sad).

On September 18 2012 15:46 tokicheese wrote:
Lets put this into perspective for a second...

3,695,000 civilian casualties in China (lets assume all are from Japan and ignore the Kuomintang/Mao conflict)

Estimates place the Deaths from the great leap forward from 65 million to 70 million in China under Mao. This government party is still in power isnt it?

What Japan did was disgusting during WW2 to the PoWs and the Chinese but forcing this generation which is almost 2 generations removed. Why should they be punished for what their grandparents did? Do Germans today get punished for the holocaust? Do the Jews hate the Germans still? All this is is that China is acting insane again.

Japan is the country that suffered the bombing at Hiroshima/Nagasaki.

Canadians, Americans, Germans, English, Chinese, Japanese, Russians all commited war crimes in WW2. Some obviously in much greater magnitudes than others but no ones hands are completely clean after WW2. This is just nationalistic bullshit with a healthy dose of victors justice.

On September 18 2012 15:47 Sickkiee wrote:


Jesus christ you cannot compare Japan to Germany with compared atrocities. Japan committed arguably only the Nanking incident. Germany committed many, many more than affected millions of people.

How can you force Japan to subject to the same, if not worse humiliation for something isn't even on the same freaking level as the holocaust.

As I said, I do agree Japan should sincerely, as do many Japanese people agree. But that isn't going to rid the hatred and animosity. 15-20 years and 50 years is a very, very, very large gap.

I still have family in Poland and America that do not hate, per say, Germany - but harbor distrust of them; however misplaced it may be.

On September 18 2012 15:46 tokicheese wrote:
Lets put this into perspective for a second...

3,695,000 civilian casualties in China (lets assume all are from Japan and ignore the Kuomintang/Mao conflict)

Estimates place the Deaths from the great leap forward from 65 million to 70 million in China under Mao. This government party is still in power isnt it?

What Japan did was disgusting during WW2 to the PoWs and the Chinese but forcing this generation which is almost 2 generations removed. Why should they be punished for what their grandparents did? Do Germans today get punished for the holocaust? Do the Jews hate the Germans still? All this is is that China is acting insane again.

Japan is the country that suffered the bombing at Hiroshima/Nagasaki.

Canadians, Americans, Germans, English, Chinese, Japanese, Russians all commited war crimes in WW2. Some obviously in much greater magnitudes than others but no ones hands are completely clean after WW2. This is just nationalistic bullshit with a healthy dose of victors justice.

On September 18 2012 15:47 Sickkiee wrote:


Jesus christ you cannot compare Japan to Germany with compared atrocities. Japan committed arguably only the Nanking incident. Germany committed many, many more than affected millions of people.

How can you force Japan to subject to the same, if not worse humiliation for something isn't even on the same freaking level as the holocaust.

As I said, I do agree Japan should sincerely, as do many Japanese people agree. But that isn't going to rid the hatred and animosity. 15-20 years and 50 years is a very, very, very large gap.

I still have family in Poland and America that do not hate, per say, Germany - but harbor distrust of them; however misplaced it may be.

On September 18 2012 15:55 Xpace wrote:


No, because Germany has apologized and have paid for their previous injustices towards the victims of the Nazi regime.



JUST Nanking? How about Unit 731? Or how about the comfort women that are still alive today? The holocaust were CIVILIAN casualties. The Chinese suffered MORE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES. Worse or not is NOT THE ISSUE HERE.

On September 18 2012 15:55 Xpace wrote:


No, because Germany has apologized and have paid for their previous injustices towards the victims of the Nazi regime.



JUST Nanking? How about Unit 731? Or how about the comfort women that are still alive today? The holocaust were CIVILIAN casualties. The Chinese suffered MORE CIVILIAN CASUALTIES. Worse or not is NOT THE ISSUE HERE.

On September 18 2012 15:58 Sickkiee wrote:


Clearly saying anything but the utter humiliation of modern-day Japan is useless to you.

Seriously like talking to a brick wall lmao.

On September 18 2012 15:58 Sickkiee wrote:


Clearly saying anything but the utter humiliation of modern-day Japan is useless to you.

Seriously like talking to a brick wall lmao.

On September 18 2012 15:59 m4inbrain wrote:


While i disagree with him for the most part, you are actually not better.

On September 18 2012 15:59 m4inbrain wrote:


While i disagree with him for the most part, you are actually not better.

On September 18 2012 15:58 Sickkiee wrote:


Clearly saying anything but the utter humiliation of modern-day Japan is useless to you.

Seriously like talking to a brick wall lmao.

On September 18 2012 15:58 Sickkiee wrote:


Clearly saying anything but the utter humiliation of modern-day Japan is useless to you.

Seriously like talking to a brick wall lmao.