• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 16:40
CET 22:40
KST 06:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Dark completes military service, returns to SC211[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage19Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175
StarCraft 2
General
Dark completes military service, returns to SC2 Greetings.. No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Dark returns! GSL CK #7 4v4 Team Battle (Nov 19) soO & FanTaSy return! SC2 Kevin Scrim 4v4 (Nov 16) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
Mutation # 552 Secret Storm The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift
Brood War
General
Korean players' earnings Hit New All-Time High! BW General Discussion List of top players active on ShieldBattery SOOP Hosts SC1 & SC2 Event Tournament: Kevin Scrim BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[BSL23] Ro16 Group C - Sunday 21:00 CET [$1250] International ShieldBattery League [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL23] Ro16 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Pluto's TvP 5Marine 2Medic Push Simple Questions, Simple Answers Infested Terran strategies in 2026 Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Free Space RTS Game, optimised f. Phone/Tablet etc List of Game Threads The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Artificial Intelligence Thread Trading/Investing Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10213 users

Lance Armstrong to lose Titles, Banned - Page 39

Forum Index > General Forum
Post a Reply
Prev 1 37 38 39 40 41 51 Next
Hanakurena
Profile Joined August 2012
105 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 20:31:11
September 03 2012 20:26 GMT
#761
That doesn't make sense because that's not what happened. Either you read what Armstrong said or you read wrong.

Ill post it again:
http://www.sportsscientists.com/2012/08/the-armstrong-fallout-thoughts-and.html

Basically Armstrong said he can never win. This is because he judges the evidence will be too strong. But his PR line is is that the trial will be rigged and is unconstitutional (judge rejected this absurd argument).
USADA never lost a case vs a cyclist and all his teammates are lined up to testify. Plus they may have figured out all the strange things that happened during Armstrong's career doping-wise and they might have even more.
His whole conspiracy might have been unraveled.

By conceding Armstrong tried to prevent the trial from happening, and thus the evidence from being presented.
But there are still cases against Bruyneel et al.
-Hitman-
Profile Joined September 2012
56 Posts
September 03 2012 20:48 GMT
#762
On September 04 2012 05:18 Shebuha wrote:
Sorry, sorry, sorry, but I just read the article and am not sure I understand. He has never been proven guilty of cheating and has passed "hundreds" of drug tests, and then decided to quit and says, "enough is enough," so they take that as him admitting to it and they ban him and take away his titles?

... Is that legal? Is it even LOGICAL?


If you know cycling it should be enough to say everybody is a cheater in normal anti-doping terms, and once the eyes of judgement are fixed upon you, its better to run.

All that have confessed doping so far have been shamed by all - sponsors, home country, fans, the sport you name it. There is absolutely no benefit admitting anything, so of course he wont say anything.

"guilty or not" rhetorics is for media and press. He is guilty of course, like the rest of all cycling pros, they just want him to admit it, so they can feast upon his corpse. Lance is a super guy, his battle with Ullrich (my fav) was probably the most entertaining part of my tour experience, doping or not

Shebuha
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Canada1335 Posts
September 03 2012 20:51 GMT
#763
^ Thanks for clarifying! It's really sad how they want to screw him so badly... It's not like he's some evil asshole who eats babies, he has a charity for goodness sakes. :\
Hanakurena
Profile Joined August 2012
105 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 21:38:43
September 03 2012 21:34 GMT
#764
His cancer foundation can't be considered a charity. It barely donated any funds. It's not quite a fraud but it must be one of the worst performing fundraising foundations in the world.

And yes, Armstrong single handedly created a new age of doping when the first EPO age seemed to be over. Armstrong is everything that is so rotten about cycling and he may have caused most of it. He may have been the person that corrupted the UCI by buying the off which then was a green light for everyone to once again dope.

Also, if you know anything about his person you'll know he is very unpleasant and probably has no moral compass. If he had he would have confessed long ago. Almost everyone confesses. Armstrong never did. That makes him a breed apart from normal people.
petered
Profile Joined February 2010
United States1817 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-04 05:08:41
September 04 2012 05:05 GMT
#765
On September 04 2012 05:51 Shebuha wrote:
^ Thanks for clarifying! It's really sad how they want to screw him so badly... It's not like he's some evil asshole who eats babies, he has a charity for goodness sakes. :\


You say that he isn't an evil asshole, but what do you base it on (besides owning a charity, which hardly means much when you have as much money as Lance does)? From my perspective he cheated, then lied, threatened, bribed, and bullied to keep it a secret (and I do have evidence for all those things, just let me know if you want me to take the time to list it all out)

That makes me suspect he is, in fact, an evil asshole. Most people simply buy into the media's portrayal of him, but we have ample evidence that the media doesn't actually dig that much, they just regurgitate what people want to hear about a person (see: Tiger Woods, Brett Favre, etc.)
This, my friends, is the power of the Shikyo Memorial for QQ therapy thread. We make the world a better place, one chainsaw massacre prevention at a time.
-Hitman-
Profile Joined September 2012
56 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-04 10:38:40
September 04 2012 10:37 GMT
#766
On September 04 2012 05:51 Shebuha wrote:
^ Thanks for clarifying! It's really sad how they want to screw him so badly... It's not like he's some evil asshole who eats babies, he has a charity for goodness sakes. :\


No problem.

Regarding the black and white people who either wants to free him or lynch him, its not as black and white even for Lance himself.

Many years ago he started doing cycling and found he was really good at it.

Then at some point you get into doping before you go full pro, everybody within the sport knows. You have to train hard as hell, but also have to stay on drugs in order to compete.

We are blessed to be in the situation where we can look from afar and say "whoa this is really good/bad".

I bet it was never armstrongs decision, but a decision of his coaches, managers and doctors as well. Like tyler has stated, that he himself was never put to the question to do it or not, it was just there and he was a part of it. And from my experience it happened the same way at youth training. Trainer comes and says "hey man you are doing great, you have to start taking this from now on, its completely normal everybody does this". And then if you do it, you can get great improvements in lap times etc, but the funny thing is that you will still be tied with that guy you were tied with before that.

So people need to direct their pitchforks against managers and doctors etc, which we are getting better at. But its sad to see all this ad hominem attacks, implying all sorts of things like he was morally aware of this and still had a cancer foundation and bla bla. You can argue he should have been aware but to be honest - its not even his job, he has managers for that like the rest of the industry has, so stop stripping medals from a talented individual and if all of this "energy" comes from a belief that cycling was clean at some point, then you have to rethink a lot - go back to formula :-)
Nouar
Profile Joined May 2009
France3270 Posts
September 04 2012 10:46 GMT
#767
On September 04 2012 05:51 Shebuha wrote:
^ Thanks for clarifying! It's really sad how they want to screw him so badly... It's not like he's some evil asshole who eats babies, he has a charity for goodness sakes. :\


He had an awful attitude towards other people he didn't like, or who took a no-doping stance publicly etc... It's been said countless times by countless people who were involved. He was basically a mob boss during tour de france... Nevermind the charity, it's easy to buy yourself a conscience when you have the money. He was very good at manipulating the public opinion to gain support. A very, very smart person, but not always in a good way.

Maybe if he can't win, that's also because he might be guilty, you know ?
NoiR
-Hitman-
Profile Joined September 2012
56 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-04 11:41:47
September 04 2012 11:40 GMT
#768
On September 04 2012 19:46 Nouar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 05:51 Shebuha wrote:
^ Thanks for clarifying! It's really sad how they want to screw him so badly... It's not like he's some evil asshole who eats babies, he has a charity for goodness sakes. :\


He had an awful attitude towards other people he didn't like, or who took a no-doping stance publicly etc... It's been said countless times by countless people who were involved. He was basically a mob boss during tour de france... Nevermind the charity, it's easy to buy yourself a conscience when you have the money. He was very good at manipulating the public opinion to gain support. A very, very smart person, but not always in a good way.

Maybe if he can't win, that's also because he might be guilty, you know ?


No he was not a like mob boss. Yes he is guilty, so are all cycling pros.

Look at it this way: If they are all doped one way or the other, its pretty hypocritical to be a cycling pro and condemn doping.
So maybe thats the angle he chose, we dont really know.
Boblion
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
France8043 Posts
September 04 2012 11:52 GMT
#769
He definitly behaved like a mob boss, see Bassons, Simeoni etc...
fuck all those elitists brb watching streams of elite players.
B.I.G.
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
3251 Posts
September 04 2012 12:11 GMT
#770
So now I'm confused, are you saying that every pro wheeler basically uses doping and every now and then they want to lynch someone for it?
Rassy
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands2308 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-04 12:15:14
September 04 2012 12:13 GMT
#771
Lance vs ulrich (who was heavily doped as well) was my favorit as well, i always expected ulrich to finally beat him but he somehow never managed to



So now I'm confused, are you saying that every pro wheeler basically uses doping and every now and then they want to lynch someone for it?

Hmm this would be one way to put it.
-Hitman-
Profile Joined September 2012
56 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-04 12:42:21
September 04 2012 12:41 GMT
#772
On September 04 2012 21:13 Rassy wrote:
Lance vs ulrich (who was heavily doped as well) was my favorit as well, i always expected ulrich to finally beat him but he somehow never managed to



So now I'm confused, are you saying that every pro wheeler basically uses doping and every now and then they want to lynch someone for it?

Hmm this would be one way to put it.


Rainy day on the last single start race bro that was it, Ullrich fell and Lance didnt. Remember it like yesterday hehe


On September 04 2012 21:11 B.I.G. wrote:
So now I'm confused, are you saying that every pro wheeler basically uses doping and every now and then they want to lynch someone for it?


Yup, this is classic hypocritic lynch mob mostly media driven as usual.
YourOldBuddy
Profile Joined December 2011
Iceland94 Posts
September 04 2012 12:49 GMT
#773
They have the blood tests and a number of witnesses.
Some of the witnesses have nothing to gain by fingering him.

He is guilty as sin and an embarrassment.
-Hitman-
Profile Joined September 2012
56 Posts
September 04 2012 12:54 GMT
#774
On September 04 2012 20:52 Boblion wrote:
He definitly behaved like a mob boss, see Bassons, Simeoni etc...


Bassons was really out there with doping talks. Involved in FestinaGate as well. You cant really rule out that Lance thought of this as being hypocritical and thus tried to do something. And if I find myself in a position where I cant rule out a motive that could speak the opposite for a person, I cant really pass judgement on that. Up to you what to do, but things are rarely so clearcut. Bassons behaviour was very outspoken, that always divides people on controversial subjects. Let him rest in pieces.

Hamilton we could choose to believe, since he is rather honest about the doping and has some beautiful evidence speaken for him (he won stage 16 in 2003, 142 km getaway with a broken collar bone) lol.
-Hitman-
Profile Joined September 2012
56 Posts
September 04 2012 12:57 GMT
#775
On September 04 2012 21:49 YourOldBuddy wrote:
They have the blood tests and a number of witnesses.
Some of the witnesses have nothing to gain by fingering him.

He is guilty as sin and an embarrassment.


Everybody is on doping. Wanna blame some? Blame the sport and the history of it. 1903 to 1940 for example 37 years of super duper doping allowed.
illu23
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany71 Posts
September 04 2012 12:57 GMT
#776
The sole reason doping is being persecuted is because it poses a huge risk to a person's health. We don't want that.

Racecars could be much faster if drivers/constructors neglected safety standards. However, doing so is not allowed because it puts unfair pressure on those who actually care about their lives.

Doping is not banned because its inherently unfair. Anything that gains you an advantage is ok, better bicycles, a better training schedule, more money to buy better teammates etc. All these things don't put your health at risk. Doping does. Therefore it's banned. We don't want children/youth cyclists to grow up in a world where doping is ok as long as they don't catch you. Letting Armstrong get away with what he likely did can not be tolerated. Talk about _greed_ inside the Anti-Doping Agencies is just uneducated emotional talk, lol. Those people work for money and/or maybe the spirit of clean sports, not because they envy successful athletes.
Odi et amo. Quare id faciam fortasse requiris. Nescio, sed fieri sentio et excrucior.
-Hitman-
Profile Joined September 2012
56 Posts
September 04 2012 13:05 GMT
#777
On September 04 2012 21:57 illu23 wrote:
The sole reason doping is being persecuted is because it poses a huge risk to a person's health. We don't want that.

Racecars could be much faster if drivers/constructors neglected safety standards. However, doing so is not allowed because it puts unfair pressure on those who actually care about their lives.

Doping is not banned because its inherently unfair. Anything that gains you an advantage is ok, better bicycles, a better training schedule, more money to buy better teammates etc. All these things don't put your health at risk. Doping does. Therefore it's banned. We don't want children/youth cyclists to grow up in a world where doping is ok as long as they don't catch you. Letting Armstrong get away with what he likely did can not be tolerated. Talk about _greed_ inside the Anti-Doping Agencies is just uneducated emotional talk, lol. Those people work for money and/or maybe the spirit of clean sports, not because they envy successful athletes.


Sennas car was pretty cool tho

Mechanic doping
Agathon
Profile Joined February 2011
France1505 Posts
September 04 2012 13:40 GMT
#778
On September 04 2012 21:11 B.I.G. wrote:
So now I'm confused, are you saying that every pro wheeler basically uses doping and every now and then they want to lynch someone for it?


The rules are the same for everybody. When there's proofs, there's sanctions. And Armstrong is far to be the first. All this drama around him is just because he's an "american hero", like Contador is a "spanish hero".

Every player who violate the rules is lynch. Armstrong is not a special case.
"C'est au pied du mur, qu'on voit le mieux...le mur".
-Hitman-
Profile Joined September 2012
56 Posts
September 04 2012 13:47 GMT
#779
On September 04 2012 22:40 Agathon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 21:11 B.I.G. wrote:
So now I'm confused, are you saying that every pro wheeler basically uses doping and every now and then they want to lynch someone for it?


The rules are the same for everybody. When there's proofs, there's sanctions. And Armstrong is far to be the first. All this drama around him is just because he's an "american hero", like Contador is a "spanish hero".

Every player violate the rules. Armstrong is not a special case.


Fixed that for you Lynch away!!
Agathon
Profile Joined February 2011
France1505 Posts
September 04 2012 14:06 GMT
#780
On September 04 2012 22:47 -Hitman- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 22:40 Agathon wrote:
On September 04 2012 21:11 B.I.G. wrote:
So now I'm confused, are you saying that every pro wheeler basically uses doping and every now and then they want to lynch someone for it?


The rules are the same for everybody. When there's prooves, there's sanctions. And Armstrong is far to be the first. All this drama around him is just because he's an "american hero", like Contador is a "spanish hero".

Every player violate the rules. Armstrong is not a special case.


Fixed that for you Lynch away!!


You're right, but USADA or any other cycling federation can't do anything without prooves (fortunately). We can't blame them for respecting the justice.
"C'est au pied du mur, qu'on voit le mieux...le mur".
Prev 1 37 38 39 40 41 51 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL
05:00
S23 - Ro16 Group C
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
ZZZero.O491
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 26
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 1401
ZZZero.O 491
firebathero 66
Counter-Strike
zeus945
Super Smash Bros
C9.Mang092
Mew2King47
AZ_Axe44
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor359
Other Games
tarik_tv4085
Grubby2969
Liquid`RaSZi2527
syndereN220
UpATreeSC33
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2592
StarCraft 2
EmSc Tv 26
EmSc2Tv 26
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 89
• Hinosc 28
• Adnapsc2 19
• Reevou 14
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie1384
• Shiphtur490
Upcoming Events
SOOP
12h 20m
soO vs FanTaSy
WardiTV Weekly
14h 20m
Replay Cast
1d 1h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 19h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
GSL
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
[ Show More ]
BSL
5 days
eOnzErG vs StRyKeR
Cross vs JDConan
RSL Revival
6 days
BSL
6 days
Bonyth vs Doodle
Kyrie vs Jimin
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-14
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 591
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
IEM Kraków 2027
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.