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Most people here need to get off their magical cloud and stop thinking that injecting a gram of test magically turns into elite level anything.
Everyone dopes at elite level on sports where you make money, and everyone should just come clean about it. What we have now are shady un-enforceable rules, and people gambling with their life using black market 2nd hand PEDs.
What we should have are allowed dosages of PEDs given by doctors to the athletes.
No pro athlete would be stupid enough to kill himself with drugs with doctor supervision + quality medicine. Athletes, for example at NFL, have to play half the year and train the other half for years and years and it just makes sense we allow them to supplement that in a way that prevents injury and helps them extend their careers and end them in a healthy way, as opossed as criples.
Edit: So what happened in the interview?
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On January 12 2013 13:46 Grimmyman123 wrote:
I do like that analogy. It is a witch hunt, guilty or not, groups of people just want him to hang, though they turn a blind eye to the ongoing droping and drug abuse in their sport, and every other sport at the top level.
And I don't care if he admits it or not. He won those titles - every other person in the top 50 had the same advantage and were doping as well - some got caught, a lot didn't. The PAIN endured to win is insane, that's enough for me.
Exactly. Any avid tour watcher will remember the day he was suffering from dehydration; his lips were basically white as he rode up an Alpe stage (perhaps, 2001?). Doping or not, he was still the best in the sport.
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On January 12 2013 15:18 darthfoley wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 13:46 Grimmyman123 wrote:
I do like that analogy. It is a witch hunt, guilty or not, groups of people just want him to hang, though they turn a blind eye to the ongoing droping and drug abuse in their sport, and every other sport at the top level.
And I don't care if he admits it or not. He won those titles - every other person in the top 50 had the same advantage and were doping as well - some got caught, a lot didn't. The PAIN endured to win is insane, that's enough for me. Exactly. Any avid tour watcher will remember the day he was suffering from dehydration; his lips were basically white as he rode up an Alpe stage (perhaps, 2001?). Doping or not, he was still the best in the sport.
Well it is no longer "or not" he admitted to doing it finally.
AUSTIN, Texas -- Lance Armstrong plans to admit to doping throughout his career during an upcoming interview with Oprah Winfrey, USA Today reported late Friday.
The interview, scheduled to be taped Monday and broadcast Thursday night on the Oprah Winfrey Network, will be conducted at Armstrong's home in Austin.
Citing an anonymous source, USA Today reported that the disgraced cyclist plans to admit to using performance-enhancing drugs but likely will not get into details of the allegations outlined in a 2012 report by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency that led to Armstrong being stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and banned for life from the sport.
Armstrong representatives, including his attorney Tim Herman, declined comment. The New York Times first reported last week that Armstrong was considering making a confession.
Armstrong, 41, who vehemently denied doping for years, has not spoken publicly about the USADA report that cast him as the leader of a sophisticated and brazen doping program on his U.S. Postal Service teams that included use of steroids, blood boosters and illegal blood transfusions.
Winfrey's network announced Tuesday that Armstrong agreed to a "no holds barred" interview with her.
A confession to Winfrey would come at a time when some of Armstrong's legal troubles appear to be clearing up.
Any potential perjury charges stemming from his sworn testimony denying doping in a 2005 arbitration fight with a Dallas promotions company over a contract bonus worth $7.5 million have passed the statute of limitations.
Armstrong faces a whistle-blower lawsuit filed by former teammate Floyd Landis accusing him of defrauding the U.S. Postal Service, but the U.S. Department of Justice has yet to announce whether it will join the case. The British newspaper The Sunday Times is suing Armstrong to recover about $500,000 it paid him to settle a libel lawsuit.
Armstrong lost most of his personal sponsorship -- worth tens of millions of dollars -- after USADA issued its report, and he left the board of the Livestrong cancer-fighting charity he founded in 1997. He is said to still be worth an estimated $100 million.
Livestrong might be one reason to issue an apology or make a confession. The charity supports cancer patients and still faces an image problem because of its association with its famous founder.
The New York Times reported Armstrong might make a confession in an attempt to return to competition in elite triathlon or running events, but World Anti-Doping Code rules state his lifetime ban cannot be reduced to fewer than eight years. WADA and U.S. Anti-Doping officials could agree to reduce the ban further depending on what new information Armstrong provides and his level of cooperation.
Armstrong met with USADA officials recently to explore a "pathway to redemption," according to a report by "60 Minutes Sports" aired Wednesday on Showtime.
Source
I think the op needs to be updated to include this to avoid confusion about whether he did it or not.
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On January 12 2013 19:42 kmillz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2013 15:18 darthfoley wrote:On January 12 2013 13:46 Grimmyman123 wrote:
I do like that analogy. It is a witch hunt, guilty or not, groups of people just want him to hang, though they turn a blind eye to the ongoing droping and drug abuse in their sport, and every other sport at the top level.
And I don't care if he admits it or not. He won those titles - every other person in the top 50 had the same advantage and were doping as well - some got caught, a lot didn't. The PAIN endured to win is insane, that's enough for me. Exactly. Any avid tour watcher will remember the day he was suffering from dehydration; his lips were basically white as he rode up an Alpe stage (perhaps, 2001?). Doping or not, he was still the best in the sport. Well it is no longer "or not" he admitted to doing it finally. Show nested quote +AUSTIN, Texas -- Lance Armstrong plans to admit to doping throughout his career during an upcoming interview with Oprah Winfrey, USA Today reported late Friday.
The interview, scheduled to be taped Monday and broadcast Thursday night on the Oprah Winfrey Network, will be conducted at Armstrong's home in Austin.
Citing an anonymous source, USA Today reported that the disgraced cyclist plans to admit to using performance-enhancing drugs but likely will not get into details of the allegations outlined in a 2012 report by the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency that led to Armstrong being stripped of his seven Tour de France titles and banned for life from the sport.
Armstrong representatives, including his attorney Tim Herman, declined comment. The New York Times first reported last week that Armstrong was considering making a confession.
Armstrong, 41, who vehemently denied doping for years, has not spoken publicly about the USADA report that cast him as the leader of a sophisticated and brazen doping program on his U.S. Postal Service teams that included use of steroids, blood boosters and illegal blood transfusions.
Winfrey's network announced Tuesday that Armstrong agreed to a "no holds barred" interview with her.
A confession to Winfrey would come at a time when some of Armstrong's legal troubles appear to be clearing up.
Any potential perjury charges stemming from his sworn testimony denying doping in a 2005 arbitration fight with a Dallas promotions company over a contract bonus worth $7.5 million have passed the statute of limitations.
Armstrong faces a whistle-blower lawsuit filed by former teammate Floyd Landis accusing him of defrauding the U.S. Postal Service, but the U.S. Department of Justice has yet to announce whether it will join the case. The British newspaper The Sunday Times is suing Armstrong to recover about $500,000 it paid him to settle a libel lawsuit.
Armstrong lost most of his personal sponsorship -- worth tens of millions of dollars -- after USADA issued its report, and he left the board of the Livestrong cancer-fighting charity he founded in 1997. He is said to still be worth an estimated $100 million.
Livestrong might be one reason to issue an apology or make a confession. The charity supports cancer patients and still faces an image problem because of its association with its famous founder.
The New York Times reported Armstrong might make a confession in an attempt to return to competition in elite triathlon or running events, but World Anti-Doping Code rules state his lifetime ban cannot be reduced to fewer than eight years. WADA and U.S. Anti-Doping officials could agree to reduce the ban further depending on what new information Armstrong provides and his level of cooperation.
Armstrong met with USADA officials recently to explore a "pathway to redemption," according to a report by "60 Minutes Sports" aired Wednesday on Showtime. SourceI think the op needs to be updated to include this to avoid confusion about whether he did it or not.
The source you link states an anonymous source says he will admit he did it. Representatives of Armstrong decline to comment. Also, note the 'he will', i.e. he has not admitted yet, which is what you said => 'he admitted to doing it finally'.
He has not admitted it yet. He might, according to an anonymous source. That's all we know.
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I don't understand why people get so worked up about this, doping in elite sport is so common, if you branded every person that doped at competitive level a traitor to your sport, nation w/e nobody would have any sporting rolemodels outside of amateur leagues.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
On January 12 2013 20:14 zbedlam wrote:
I don't understand why people get so worked up about this, doping in elite sport is so common, if you branded every person that doped at competitive level a traitor to your sport, nation w/e nobody would have any sporting rolemodels outside of amateur leagues.
So what do you suggest? Just be chill about these cheaters? Or should professional sports just embrace doping and illegal substance abuse altogether? Make it a part of the game and whoever has the right mixture of drugs & training is the worthy winner. That sound good to you? The reason people make a big deal is that's the only way shit will change.
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On January 12 2013 15:00 GoTuNk! wrote:
Everyone dopes at elite level on sports where you make money, and everyone should just come clean about it. What we have now are shady un-enforceable rules, and people gambling with their life using black market 2nd hand PEDs.
What we should have are allowed dosages of PEDs given by doctors to the athletes.
What are you talking about ? There are strict rules about this and tons of tests which will get you even if its Your testerone Levels that are a bit higher than normal, like what happened to Overeem in UFC.
Just because biking is full of it doesnt mean rest of the sports are like that. And drugs have no place in sports whatsoever. Its the People competing, not what type and amount of drug you are using.
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EPO turns a donkey into a race horse with no training. That's why everyone had to use it and those who refused had to quit the sport no matter how talented they were.
Overeem had crazy high T/E ratio. It was 14:1 UFC allows 6:1. UCI allows 4:1. The normal high range is 1.3:1. Overeem had 14:1 when he was tested. You have to wonder how high he was when he was at his highest.
PEDs corrupts the sport and affect health adversely. How can we get children into cycling, running, weight lifting, cc skiing when we tell them they gotta poison themselves and ruin their health to compete professionally? What about high school football in the US were many are using steroids just to play better for their local community school?
We gonna tell them they have to compete in how much they dare to risk their health and how good their doping doctor is?
It used to be about seeing who has the most natural talent and the most of a will to win. If it's not about talent and hard work, it's all worthless and meaningless.
Also, even if you allow doctors to use some PEDs, cheaters will still look for an edge. They will use something that's not legal.
And I don't know about other sports, but cycling has been extremely boring since EPO/blooddoping. It's like robot cycling. Yeah superhuman efforts, but that's the problem. These guys ride up HCs like they are on electric bikes.
And Armstrong had no talent at all, no talent at all to win 3 grand tours. He couldn't get over the mountains even with EPO. He always used to do decent in the TT, get to the first mountain stage, lose a whole lot of time and then just drop out. And he was on EPO back then. Only when he had the cheaters edge he was the best. And only because he had a whole doped team when most others were off the EPO because UCI rigged the system for US postal.
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On January 12 2013 20:32 Tadatomo wrote:
EPO turns a donkey into a race horse with no training. That's why everyone had to use it and those who refused had to quit the sport no matter how talented they were.
This makes it hard to take anything else you say seriously. EPO turns a race horse into a race horse with a bit better endurance. At the highest levels where there is the slimmest of margins involved, it can definitely be the difference between top-20 or top-50 and winning, but not the difference between mid-tier and top-tier in the vast majority of sports (cycling is one of the sports that benefits from EPO the most).
Please note, I'm not condoning performance enhancing drugs, there's few things I find as despicable. If the drugs were all perfectly safe then I might not have much of a problem with them, but the fact is that they are not. They can and do have harmful effects on a person's health. Whilst that might even be ok (to some) for top-level athletes, it means those who aren't willing to risk their health can't be successful in sport, which nobody wants.
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No it don't. It makes you perform 20 to 25% more wattage. There's studies done out there. When you have to go over 2 or 3 HC mountains and you have to ride for 3 weeks it creates huge differences. Makes a donkey, among the pros, to a racehorse. That meant that the EPO users rode away from the clean riders on the flats. It created this almost binary split in the peleton. That's what happened before they had this 50 htc rate. That's just what blood does.
When you can ride week 3 of the TdF fresh because of blood doping that's huge. Normally your htc drops up to 8 points during those 3 weeks. Doped riders can just keep going as fast as they were going week 1. Clean riders get wrecked. The quality of their blood is just gone and there's no time to recover. Doped riders can ride with fresh blood, that's already able to produce 20% more wattage while clean riders performance just ebbs away.
You can be a talented rider in a clean peleton, you will be forced to quit in an peleton using EPO and blood doping. Forced to quit, not even riding in the back. No you had to quit. And people have denied this for years. But that's what happened before the 50 htc rule. We know it now because all these people are confessing and saying exactly this.
And then they had the 50 htc rule and the UCI doping lab told Armstrong, Ferrari and Bruyneel how to beat the test, if they didnt already knew it. Other teams didn't have this. Ulrich quit using EPO altogether. Ulrich with no team vs Armstrong's team doped to the gills.
It's a cheated win. Armstrong had talent, but not to win the TdF. And not to win time trials against the very best. He couldn't time trail and he couldn't climb even with EPO before 1998.
Also, adding PEDs to the mix changes what it means to be naturally talented. It changes the ideal genetic traits one has to posses. Without EPO you need to have naturally high htc. But with EPO you want the opposite. The lower your natural htc the better. What genetic traits make you talented suddenly flip upside down. A rider with a genetic trait that makes him very talented in a clean sport suddenly make him very untalented in a doped sport.
If you have naturally low htc you can just up it to whatever level with EPO. But you can train with your naturally low htc and condition your body to work with that naturally low htc. Then you can supercharge yourself and get a huge performance boost to suddenly go to a low genetic outlier to a high genetic outlier (or mutant/supernatural range) with EPO. If you have naturally high htc you just can't do it.
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I used to enjoy cycling, especially the Giro and the Tour de France, but after all these scandals i prefer to watch darts, snooker, racing, esports instead of a bunch of junkies. I remember the commentators praising Armstrong, how good he is and now it makes me laugh. Serious changes and rules need to be taken so cycling won't lose its credibility 100%. If they(cycling union, federation w/e its called) will sanction only the players and not the team nothing will change. Hope one day i will be able to see a tour with clean riders but its just like wishing for world peace.
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This fucker needs to land in jail, not receive support and defense.
Yet another prick who destroyed this beautiful sport, it's competitive scene.
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On January 12 2013 23:43 vidium wrote:
I used to enjoy cycling, especially the Giro and the Tour de France, but after all these scandals i prefer to watch darts, snooker, racing, esports instead of a bunch of junkies. I remember the commentators praising Armstrong, how good he is and now it makes me laugh. Serious changes and rules need to be taken so cycling won't lose its credibility 100%. If they(cycling union, federation w/e its called) will sanction only the players and not the team nothing will change. Hope one day i will be able to see a tour with clean riders but its just like wishing for world peace.
World peace is way more likely than no doping in sports! Btw. if you want sports without significant doping-problems, try archery. While that is a pseudo-sport in its current form, it is better than promoting cancer by supporting shooting, motorbike or car racing. Snooker and Darts are not in themself problematic. Esport is not so good if it is done at the cost of exercise.
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United States5162 Posts
Use the new thread now since it's specifically about his admission.
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EPT
