EPTthe entire debate is centered on the definition of a word
Google Announces Campaign to Legalize Gay Marriage - Page 34
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Panasony
Switzerland11 Posts
the entire debate is centered on the definition of a word | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On July 10 2012 12:05 Panasony wrote: in that case I would propose either remove marriage from law or simply replace it with a union that recognizes religious and secular "marriage" the entire debate is centered on the definition of a word No, the entire debate is centered around a group of people who want to impose their religious views on others because they are so incredibly offended about other people's relationships. If it were really about the definition of a word, there probably would be no problem. Unfortunately, that's not actually what it's about. The semantic argument is a disguise for bigotry. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On July 10 2012 12:05 Panasony wrote: in that case I would propose either remove marriage from law or simply replace it with a union that recognizes religious and secular "marriage" the entire debate is centered on the definition of a word So you feel it is better to invalidate all the marriages that have taken place and to rewrite every law that has any mention of marriage, rather than allowing homosexuals to marry? Whose creating a useless fuss now? | ||
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hummingbird23
Norway359 Posts
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Santa Cruz
9 Posts
On July 10 2012 12:23 hummingbird23 wrote: I've heard some of the arguments from Christian colleagues against homosexuals and gay marriage and it's jaw dropping that a person with access to literally the world's cutting edge research materials can base their worldview on an utterly discredited model of homosexuality, simply because their pastor says so. When the New World Order and the "homosexual agenda to destroy families for Satan" are points in an argument, you know that someone's completely lost their grasp on reality, at least for that particular topic. Yeah, I remember ages ago when my economics lecturer used to teach me about monetary policy and interest rates and inflation and shit and thinking: "This man knows his shit, he should be our country's Finance Minister." Then years later I found out he believes in eating biscuits that are supposedly made out of God at Church and that to do so he is literally eating the body of Christ. Like seriously, what the fuck is up with that? Makes me think of this - SFW but still rather disturbing: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.only-apartments.com/images/only-apartments/cannibalism-vienna.jpg) | ||
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zebaty
19 Posts
 ) in poland, here i go:1st of all , I`ve only known 2 "homosexuals" in my life and both of them weren`t born this way. One of them always wanted to be different than the others ,and the other had terrible terrible experiences with women. I`m positive that if there wasn`t all this talk about gay rights and gay that ( with repulsive, for me , parades on top) 90% of people that call themselves gay wouldn`t even probably know something like this exists. How many people do you know that were born gay and never felt any attraction towards opposite sex? 2nd of all, almost all of us are hetero but yet we don`t do parades that are getting more and more repulsive every year ,we don`t tell other people at every opportunity we love fuckin women(men in case of women ) . If they kept they private life to themselves , they could fuck whole barn in their bedroom , i don`t care. But why do i need to know what are they doing there? I, personally find it really disgusting, and it is my nature and right to think so, isn`t it?You will say... what would you ? you are not being "discriminated against"? I will respond: In some countries they got full rights + "anti discrimination package" ( which I as hetero white male can only dream of lol). Has it all stopped ? Right ... it`s where it`s the worst . coincidence? I belive they just feel they can so they do so. And you let them , your problem. But why do you wanna do it in my country too? By "anti discrimation package" I mean - you can hardly even not smile back at black guy anymore if you don`t wanna be racist. Try firing openly homo compared to hetero ? it is ridiculous even in poland , not to mention western nations. They are privilaged in some countries BY FAR as it stands now but it is not enough of course The truth , I belive is I need to get the fuck out of europe asap as it truly seems like they want ( and are succeding in) to destroy what I call western civilisation. I don`t wanna be here and watch this shit happen anymore. Regards, User was warned for this post | ||
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Santa Cruz
9 Posts
On July 10 2012 13:01 zebaty wrote: I haven`t read the whole thread but as it`s supposed to be happening( havent seen anything, living in the center of cracow but good for me ) in poland, here i go:1st of all , I`ve only known 2 "homosexuals" in my life and both of them weren`t born this way. One of them always wanted to be different than the others ,and the other had terrible terrible experiences with women. I`m positive that if there wasn`t all this talk about gay rights and gay that ( with repulsive, for me , parades on top) 90% of people that call themselves gay wouldn`t even probably know something like this exists. How many people do you know that were born gay and never felt any attraction towards opposite sex? 2nd of all, almost all of us are hetero but yet we don`t do parades that are getting more and more repulsive every year ,we don`t tell other people at every opportunity we love fuckin women(men in case of women ) . If they kept they private life to themselves , they could fuck whole barn in their bedroom , i don`t care. But why do i need to know what are they doing there? I, personally find it really disgusting, and it is my nature and right to think so, isn`t it?You will say... what would you ? you are not being "discriminated against"? I will respond: In some countries they got full rights + "anti discrimination package" ( which I as hetero white male can only dream of lol). Has it all stopped ? Right ... it`s where it`s the worst . coincidence? I belive they just feel they can so they do so. And you let them , your problem. But why do you wanna do it in my country too? By "anti discrimation package" I mean - you can hardly even not smile back at black guy anymore if you don`t wanna be racist. Try firing openly homo compared to hetero ? it is ridiculous even in poland , not to mention western nations. They are privilaged in some countries BY FAR as it stands now but it is not enough of course The truth , I belive is I need to get the fuck out of europe asap as it truly seems like they want ( and are succeding in) to destroy what I call western civilisation. I don`t wanna be here and watch this shit happen anymore. Regards, Well, at least it's good that all you want to do is get the fuck out of the Europe rather than shoot up some kids at a political camp to prove your point. User was banned for this post. | ||
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zebaty
19 Posts
btw great response | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On July 10 2012 13:01 zebaty wrote: I haven`t read the whole thread but as it`s supposed to be happening( havent seen anything, living in the center of cracow but good for me ) in poland, here i go:1st of all , I`ve only known 2 "homosexuals" in my life and both of them weren`t born this way. One of them always wanted to be different than the others ,and the other had terrible terrible experiences with women. I`m positive that if there wasn`t all this talk about gay rights and gay that ( with repulsive, for me , parades on top) 90% of people that call themselves gay wouldn`t even probably know something like this exists. How many people do you know that were born gay and never felt any attraction towards opposite sex? 2nd of all, almost all of us are hetero but yet we don`t do parades that are getting more and more repulsive every year ,we don`t tell other people at every opportunity we love fuckin women(men in case of women ) . If they kept they private life to themselves , they could fuck whole barn in their bedroom , i don`t care. But why do i need to know what are they doing there? I, personally find it really disgusting, and it is my nature and right to think so, isn`t it?You will say... what would you ? you are not being "discriminated against"? I will respond: In some countries they got full rights + "anti discrimination package" ( which I as hetero white male can only dream of lol). Has it all stopped ? Right ... it`s where it`s the worst . coincidence? I belive they just feel they can so they do so. And you let them , your problem. But why do you wanna do it in my country too? By "anti discrimation package" I mean - you can hardly even not smile back at black guy anymore if you don`t wanna be racist. Try firing openly homo compared to hetero ? it is ridiculous even in poland , not to mention western nations. They are privilaged in some countries BY FAR as it stands now but it is not enough of course The truth , I belive is I need to get the fuck out of europe asap as it truly seems like they want ( and are succeding in) to destroy what I call western civilisation. I don`t wanna be here and watch this shit happen anymore. Regards, Maybe you should read the thread before you start spouting your bullshit. If you bothered to read you would know that there is scientific evidence showing that homosexuality is not a choice. Why post here? You clearly couldn't care less about learning something, or even presenting an argument. Instead you drop your ignorant opinion down and then expect people to take you seriously. | ||
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zebaty
19 Posts
This isn`t science, this is propaganda , unless you wanna call gender studies real higher education? I mean, come on... And i never said it doesn`t exist, i just said the number of gays is inflated by talk about this, and i estimate it to be 90%, might be less but there are cases like this and no study can tell me otherwise. I`ve known those people personally , one for a really long time and i know he fucked women. Even if all the studies said it does not happen , I`ve seen it with my own eyes.What more can I ask for? | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On July 10 2012 13:19 zebaty wrote: Check where your "scientific" studies were financed 1st ,ok? This isn`t science, this is propaganda , unless you wanna call gender studies real higher education? I mean, come on... And i never said it doesn`t exist, i just said the number of gays is inflated by talk about this, and i estimate it to be 90%, might be less but there are cases like this and no study can tell me otherwise. I`ve known those people personally , one for a really long time and i know he fucked women. Even if all the studies said it does not happen , I`ve seen it with my own eyes.What more can I ask for? Relevance? I never said that homosexuals ONLY have homosexual partners. I would imagine, particularly in the current climate of demonisation, it is bloody difficult for a homosexual to accept their sexuality without trying to live a straight life. This has no relevance on marriage and your point is lost. Are you suggesting that homosexuals should not be allowed to choose which gender they sleep with, if they want to get married? What is your point? | ||
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McFeser
United States2458 Posts
On July 10 2012 12:20 Probulous wrote: So you feel it is better to invalidate all the marriages that have taken place and to rewrite every law that has any mention of marriage, rather than allowing homosexuals to marry? Whose creating a useless fuss now? No, I agree with him. Who's says it's the state's responsibility to validate what a marriage is? They should only be able to say what a marriage is not (Minor and a person in their thirties, or a person and a animal) otherwise give everyone the same tax benefits. If you do that you sidestep trampling on the religious definition of marriage. | ||
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On July 10 2012 13:19 zebaty wrote: Check where your "scientific" studies were financed 1st ,ok? This isn`t science, this is propaganda , unless you wanna call gender studies real higher education? I mean, come on... And i never said it doesn`t exist, i just said the number of gays is inflated by talk about this, and i estimate it to be 90%, might be less but there are cases like this and no study can tell me otherwise. I`ve known those people personally , one for a really long time and i know he fucked women. Even if all the studies said it does not happen , I`ve seen it with my own eyes.What more can I ask for? You know two gay people. TWO. Two people aren't indicative of all of a group. Plus, how can you know that he enjoyed having sex with women? I could theoretically have sex with another man, but I would certainly not enjoy it one bit. If society as a whole (and,living in Poland which afaik is still very Catholic and with people like you there) tells you not to be gay, you're probably not going to want to be gay in the first place. Anyway, this isn't even that related to the issue at hand. Whether homosexuality is natural or overblown is irrelevant. What is relevant is that if two people love each other and want to enter a civil union, there is no reason that they should be discriminated based on their sexes. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On July 10 2012 13:36 McFeser wrote: No, I agree with him. Who's says it's the state's responsibility to validate what a marriage is? They should only be able to say what a marriage is not (Minor and a person in their thirties, or a person and a animal) otherwise give everyone the same tax benefits. If you do that you sidestep trampling on the religious definition of marriage. I fail to see the difference. Saying that a marriage is only between a man and a woman is no differnt from saying that marriage is not between two people of the same gender. In fact, short of listing everything marriage is not, it makes sense to just decide what marriage is. Or better yet, have nothing to say about marriage at all but that will never happen. | ||
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Panasony
Switzerland11 Posts
On July 10 2012 12:18 DoubleReed wrote: No, the entire debate is centered around a group of people who want to impose their religious views on others because they are so incredibly offended about other people's relationships. If it were really about the definition of a word, there probably would be no problem. Unfortunately, that's not actually what it's about. The semantic argument is a disguise for bigotry. Good point, alot of the opposition stems from hatred which is going nowhere and the only way to sidestep that issue is to abolish marriage from law, the devout just like everyone else can continue on with their own internal morality and there will be no conflict of interest On July 10 2012 12:20 Probulous wrote: So you feel it is better to invalidate all the marriages that have taken place and to rewrite every law that has any mention of marriage, rather than allowing homosexuals to marry? Whose creating a useless fuss now? More energy, manpower and legal resources has been wasted in one year of administrating marriages than it would take to rewrite some laws, responsibility would fall back to the individual where it belongs | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On July 10 2012 13:19 zebaty wrote: Check where your "scientific" studies were financed 1st ,ok? This isn`t science, this is propaganda , unless you wanna call gender studies real higher education? I mean, come on... And i never said it doesn`t exist, i just said the number of gays is inflated by talk about this, and i estimate it to be 90%, might be less but there are cases like this and no study can tell me otherwise. I`ve known those people personally , one for a really long time and i know he fucked women. Even if all the studies said it does not happen , I`ve seen it with my own eyes.What more can I ask for? Are you kidding me? You're basing all your thoughts on your two fucking experiences with homosexuals? Do you not see the incredibly faulty logic you're going off of? Anecdotal evidence is the WORST kind of evidence. I know plenty of people that have known they were gay at super young ages. Just because you happen to live in an area where people aren't as open about it (not all gays are flamboyant and show off that they are gay you know, there are many that are and you would never know), doesn't mean you can extrapolate your obnoxiously small sample size of two onto the population. | ||
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Azera
3800 Posts
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IamPryda
United States1186 Posts
[/QUOTE] Maybe you should read the thread before you start spouting your bullshit. If you bothered to read you would know that there is scientific evidence showing that homosexuality is not a choice. Why post here? You clearly couldn't care less about learning something, or even presenting an argument. Instead you drop your ignorant opinion down and then expect people to take you seriously. [/QUOTE] Lol @ scientific evidence. I am sorry but no evidence exist proving it a something you learn or are born.(social sciences such as psychology don't count) There are many openly gay people who says it preference as why they are gay while others say they are born that way. However all lgbt lobbiest groups state it is not a choice for political purposes. My opinion of gay marriage and gays in general is one of no opinion. I don't need to agree with there life choices to respect them or treat them as equals. I do however feel when people say that gay rights are a civil rights issue they are wrong. Last time I checked if you go on a job interview There's no box to check or question asked about sexual preference. Do homosexual deserve job benefits of there partner, my answer is yes but I think that. Could be arranged without them being married. I find it laughable in country where gay people excel in every profession in America that we need these anti bully laws and another non sense to protect them when really they are doing just fine | ||
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TOloseGT
United States1145 Posts
On July 11 2012 09:51 IamPryda wrote: Do homosexual deserve job benefits of there partner, my answer is yes but I think that. Could be arranged without them being married. The simplest way to do that would be give civil unions all the rights associated with state sponsored marriage. That's a good idea if gay marriage were to remain banned. Segregation worked very well before. Marriage isn't religious, so this shouldn't even be an issue, but some people don't want other people to be happy, so we ended up in this bullshit. | ||
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-_-Quails
Australia796 Posts
On July 11 2012 09:51 IamPryda wrote: Lol @ scientific evidence. I am sorry but no evidence exist proving it a something you learn or are born.(social sciences such as psychology don't count) There are many openly gay people who says it preference as why they are gay while others say they are born that way. However all lgbt lobbiest groups state it is not a choice for political purposes. My opinion of gay marriage and gays in general is one of no opinion. I don't need to agree with there life choices to respect them or treat them as equals. I do however feel when people say that gay rights are a civil rights issue they are wrong. Last time I checked if you go on a job interview There's no box to check or question asked about sexual preference. Do homosexual deserve job benefits of there partner, my answer is yes but I think that. Could be arranged without them being married. I find it laughable in country where gay people excel in every profession in America that we need these anti bully laws and another non sense to protect them when really they are doing just fine The reason that anti-discrimination laws are necessary in places like the USA is so that people who are discriminated against because of their assumed or actual sexual preferences have some way of seeking redress. Even with such legal protections, people who are known or assumed to be non-heterosexual regularly face discrimination, harassment and violence - especially as children. There is a reason projects like It Gets Better exist. Attacks are often made with the intention of harming people other than primary victims; they are meant to create an atmosphere in which non-heterosexual people cannot live their lives openly without fear of violent persecution. Note that false assumptions about the sexuality of individuals are sufficient to lead to them becoming targets in many instances. In any work environment where people interact with their colleagues socially to any extent it is nigh on impossible to avoid revealing the gender of a long term partner either willingly in trust of colleagues, or accidentally by use of pronouns, or by recognition outside of work, or a number of other circumstances. Marriage, used in the civil rather than religious sense, is the form which has been established to grant shared benefits and consideration as a family unit to people in long-term relationships. To use a different term, in the civil sense, would require rewriting all existing legislation involving the term marriage to include whatever alternate term you wish to use and then passing it all. Not only would that be a phenomenal amount of work, it would also drag out this battle far longer than necessary because of the necessity that every amendment or equivalent law would need to be pressed until it passes if full equality is to be ensured. It is far simpler to change the civil definition of marriage to describe the union of two consenting adults without regard to gender. Here is a list of physiological and cognitive differences that have been observed in homo- and bisexual populations as compared to heterosexual populations. You will note that people do not consciously mediate traits like the relative size of different regions of their brain, yet there remain several statistically significant differences between populations. If you scroll up from that list you can find a summary of empirical studies aimed at examining the likelihood that sexual orientation is affected by a range of genetic and environmental factors, the majority of which found there to be a statistically significant link to factors that are far outside the control of the child. Of particular note would be the Swedish twin study, as they eliminated selection bias as a factor when they used the entire population of twins in Sweden, and the study of children with a condition leading to sex-reassignment at birth where sex-at-birth was determinable. If you scroll down, you will find links to the studies discussed in the article. | ||
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